League Reconstruction Proposals - Supporters' Survey

[BEEJ]

Posted this on another thread and it was suggested that I make it the subject of a separate thread.

Plenty of strong feeling around concerning the proposal for a 10 team SPL. Suggest that as many of us as possible should complete the short survey here, set up by Supporters Direct Scotland:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/scottishfootball

If enough folks do it across the country, the results could be quite interesting. Might even register with the dunderheids in charge. :greengrin

[Since90+2]

Done :aok:

[GreenCastle]

Done :agree:

[Saorsa]

:aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

There is only one proposal that will work.

Top league of 2 playing each other 36 times

then 2 further leagues of 16

[BEEJ]

There is only one proposal that will work.

Top league of 2 playing each other 36 times

then 2 further leagues of 16
Now that would suit everyone just fine. :thumbsup:

The OF can knock ten bells out of one another week after week and leave the rest of us to get on without them.

[falkirk_cabbage]

Done and put the link on my facebook page

[Future17]

Done! :agree:

[woody47]

There is only one proposal that will work.

Top league of 2 playing each other 36 times

then 2 further leagues of 16

Agree 100%. It is actually boring playing the same team 4,5 even 6 times in a season and that even includes the yams.

[Removed]

Done

[bingo70]

I think the points being missed, i think if you asked anyone, including henry mcleish or any SPL chairmen and managers from a football perspective what they'd rather then they'd all agree that playing each other twice is a much more attractive proposition.

What needs to be asked though is would you take a substantial drop in quality short term and increased ticket prices which would come through the immediate loss of revenue in the hope things might improve in the long term?

I know i'd object to paying more for even poorer quality than the pish thats on display just now.

The St Mirren chairmen recently said if it was to go to a 16 team league the maximum wage they could offer would be around £400 p/week if your in any doubt how much difference it would make.

[BEEJ]

I think the points being missed, i think if you asked anyone, including henry mcleish or any SPL chairmen and managers from a football perspective what they'd rather then they'd all agree that playing each other twice is a much more attractive proposition.

What needs to be asked though is would you take a substantial drop in quality short term and increased ticket prices which would come through the immediate loss of revenue in the hope things might improve in the long term?

I know i'd object to paying more for even poorer quality than the pish thats on display just now.

The St Mirren chairmen recently said if it was to go to a 16 team league the maximum wage they could offer would be around £400 p/week if your in any doubt how much difference it would make.
The 16 team option is not the only alternative.

[bingo70]

No but the principles the same, bigger league and play each other less and get less income or smaller league and try and improve the quality

[JohnScott]

Posted this on another thread and it was suggested that I make it the subject of a separate thread.

Plenty of strong feeling around concerning the proposal for a 10 team SPL. Suggest that as many of us as possible should complete the short survey here, set up by Supporters Direct Scotland:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/scottishfootball

If enough folks do it across the country, the results could be quite interesting. Might even register with the dunderheids in charge. :greengrin


Why don't they just have a survey of all the bloody surveys carried out over the last ten years?! These guys don't give a chuff what the fans want, they never have! The big question is would the present Hibs squad be any more entertaining in a 36 team league or 10? I think we all know the answer.

I was about 16 when we last played in a league with one home and away fixture and all I can remember was how MASSIVE the games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic were. Thats why they changed to a ten team league, so we could have more games like these. However I also remember the new league giving us crowds of 4500 against Partick and 6000 against Dundee United. That being said I also remember teams like Ayr United having bigger travelling supports than what they get for home games now. So unlike many in the press and game I've at least experienced both sides of the argument as a PAYING CUSTOMER .

So IMHO we need to revert to a much larger league NOT a smaller one. Meaningless games? Those will be the ones St Mirren will be playing if they are relegated to an SPL 2 with less income than they get now! The very title SPL 2 is an insult to us all.

[Hank Schrader]

Why don't they just have a survey of all the bloody surveys carried out over the last ten years?! These guys don't give a chuff what the fans want, they never have! The big question is would the present Hibs squad be any more entertaining in a 36 team league or 10? I think we all know the answer.

I was about 16 when we last played in a league with one home and away fixture and all I can remember was how MASSIVE the games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic were. Thats why they changed to a ten team league, so we could have more games like these. However I also remember the new league giving us crowds of 4500 against Partick and 6000 against Dundee United. That being said I also remember teams like Ayr United having bigger travelling supports than what they get for home games now. So unlike many in the press and game I've at least experienced both sides of the argument as a PAYING CUSTOMER .

So IMHO we need to revert to a much larger league NOT a smaller one. Meaningless games? Those will be the ones St Mirren will be playing if they are relegated to an SPL 2 with less income than they get now! The very title SPL 2 is an insult to us all.

:top marks

[Beefster]

Posted this on another thread and it was suggested that I make it the subject of a separate thread.

Plenty of strong feeling around concerning the proposal for a 10 team SPL. Suggest that as many of us as possible should complete the short survey here, set up by Supporters Direct Scotland:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/scottishfootball

If enough folks do it across the country, the results could be quite interesting. Might even register with the dunderheids in charge. :greengrin

Aren't Supporters Direct just another quango with highly paid management?

[ginger_rice]

Why don't they just have a survey of all the bloody surveys carried out over the last ten years?! These guys don't give a chuff what the fans want, they never have! The big question is would the present Hibs squad be any more entertaining in a 36 team league or 10? I think we all know the answer.

I was about 16 when we last played in a league with one home and away fixture and all I can remember was how MASSIVE the games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic were. Thats why they changed to a ten team league, so we could have more games like these. However I also remember the new league giving us crowds of 4500 against Partick and 6000 against Dundee United. That being said I also remember teams like Ayr United having bigger travelling supports than what they get for home games now. So unlike many in the press and game I've at least experienced both sides of the argument as a PAYING CUSTOMER .

So IMHO we need to revert to a much larger league NOT a smaller one. Meaningless games? Those will be the ones St Mirren will be playing if they are relegated to an SPL 2 with less income than they get now! The very title SPL 2 is an insult to us all.

:agree::agree: Couldn't agree more well saiod!

[BEEJ]

Aren't Supporters Direct just another quango with highly paid management?
Don't know. :dunno: If you say so.

The survey is what interests me as it gives me an opportunity to express my opinion.

[Woody1985]

I think the points being missed, i think if you asked anyone, including henry mcleish or any SPL chairmen and managers from a football perspective what they'd rather then they'd all agree that playing each other twice is a much more attractive proposition.

What needs to be asked though is would you take a substantial drop in quality short term and increased ticket prices which would come through the immediate loss of revenue in the hope things might improve in the long term?

I know i'd object to paying more for even poorer quality than the pish thats on display just now.

The St Mirren chairmen recently said if it was to go to a 16 team league the maximum wage they could offer would be around £400 p/week if your in any doubt how much difference it would make.

What's their top wage now. Saying 400 quid is pointless as it has no context. If it's 425 who cares, if it's three grand then fair enough but statements like that are silly.

[CMac1988]

Question 5 should read;

5. Which of the following statements most closely reflects your own view on fans having a say in Scottish Football?

[brog]

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to comment. That's more than McLeish or our own club have done to date.

[Hibee Daz]

There is only one proposal that will work.

Top league of 2 playing each other 36 times

then 2 further leagues of 16

The supporters want this and after all it's ourselves that pay our hard earned cash to fund football, therefore we should have a right too our say when there's any changes being made to the product we're buying into.

[Hibee Daz]

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to comment. That's more than McLeish or our own club have done to date.

:agree: I'll second this, thank you for giving us the chance to voice our opinions.:aok:

[down the slope]

There is another answer we will need shortly ie how will Rod vote when these proposals are put to the league spokesmen ?. I hope there is some transparency with this as if in a few years it all goes Ertha Kits up these people have to be held to account.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is another answer we will need shortly ie how will Rod vote when these proposals are put to the league spokesmen ?. I hope there is some transparency with this as if in a few years it all goes Ertha Kits up these people have to be held to account.

I believe Rod has been involved in drawing up the proposed 2 tier SPL of 10 teams in each. Take from that what you will.

[snooky]

:agree: I'll second this, thank you for giving us the chance to voice our opinions.:aok:

We should encourage fans of other clubs (mates, relatives, etc) to post the poll link on their websites. The wider the fan base the more validity (and weight) this pole will have.

Okay, we may be p***ing against the wind, but its worth a shot.

[snooky]

I believe Rod has been involved in drawing up the proposed 2 tier SPL of 10 teams in each. Take from that what you will.

He's making a Rod for his own back, IMO :crazy:

[BEEJ]

There is another answer we will need shortly ie how will Rod vote when these proposals are put to the league spokesmen ?. I hope there is some transparency with this as if in a few years it all goes Ertha Kits up these people have to be held to account.
BBC Scotland saying yesterday that the three clubs definitely against the 10 team set up are Killie, the Arabs and the Yams. Two other SPL clubs are apparently 'not convinced'.

If I heard correctly, the six teams on the SPL committee tasked with looking at reconstruction (and therefore behind the 10 team proposal) are Rangers, Celtic, St Mirren, Hibs, Aberdeen and Motherwell.

[Dan Sarf]

There is only one proposal that will work.

Top league of 2 playing each other 36 times

then 2 further leagues of 16

That's it! That's it! :thumbsup:

[cockneymike]

Anyone else think it would be great if Hibs were to publish on their website a 2 page response to the McLeish and SPL review report. Making clear the views of the Hibernian board - and not hiding behind the SPL exec etc.

They could then request comments from fans, and perhaps even write a further response detailing their answers to fans opinions - particularly if the majority of fans disagreed.

At the end of the day these changes are being made to try and produce a better, more attractive product for their customers, but they seem to be paying no interest in what we - their customers - might think.

Its completely bizarre - although not surprising.

[bingo70]

What's their top wage now. Saying 400 quid is pointless as it has no context. If it's 425 who cares, if it's three grand then fair enough but statements like that are silly.

dunno but when i left school about 10 years ago with hee haw qualifications and in a office junior role i earned close to £200 a week so i'd expect footballers now to earn a lot more than double that.

In very basic calculations we get about double st mirrens crowds so i'd guess that if all we could pay was £800 p/week i could guess that we couldn't sign or keep many good players if the conference down south were offering more than that.

still though, we'd only play each other twice so the entertainment would be good even if the quality was equivalent to a sunday amateur league :rolleyes:

[Woody1985]

That's why my preference is a 14 team league, and not 16...

[Jim44]

Agree 100%. It is actually boring playing the same team 4,5 even 6 times in a season and that even includes the yams.

Tongue in cheek, but many a true word said in jest - It is actually boring losing to the same team 4,5 even 6 times in a season and that even includes the yams.

[Beefster]

Don't know. :dunno: If you say so.

The survey is what interests me as it gives me an opportunity to express my opinion.

Fair enough. If I've got a strong opinion to express on something, I just tend to email the organisation involved direct rather than going through a random third party.

[bingo70]

That's why my preference is a 14 team league, and not 16...

still playing most teams four times a season?

[BEEJ]

still playing most teams four times a season?
No.

Playing six sides four times a season and seven sides just twice. 38 matches in all and you get to play 13 different teams in a league competition - not just 9.

:wink:

[Woody1985]

still playing most teams four times a season?

Not ideal but it will add to the variety and keep income at a decent level. It would allow for more scope to develop talent.

16-18 teams wouldn't give much scope for decent size teams to move into a top division.

[bingo70]

No.

Playing six sides four times a season and seven sides just twice. 38 matches in all and you get to play 13 different teams in a league competition - not just 9.

:wink:

i realised that just after i typed it :greengrin

TBH if this is financially viable then the 14 team league gets my vote, it sounds the baws :agree:

[alexedwards]

This:

http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/sport/thepars/articles/2010/12/16/408296-pars-chairmans-anger-at-10team-spl-plan/

[Big Frank]

42 teams for a country the size of ours is ridiculous.

[JCHibby]

Done...

TV money and the Old Firm are killing our game slowly but surely. If we have to go down a 10 team league would like to see a rule being implemented regarding having to play 5 under 21 players in each team. Would make the league more competitive, bring on Scottish Youngsters and hopefully improve the National team in the longer term.

Will never happen, SKY drive football, plain and simple, what ever they want that is how we will re-construct the league.

[CMac1988]

This:

http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/sport/thepars/articles/2010/12/16/408296-pars-chairmans-anger-at-10team-spl-plan/

Good article. This Tony Bonnar's proposition is also an improvement on what has been put forward already IMO.


Excerpt from the article;


Meanwhile Tony Bonnar said that what was published at the weekend was hardly the radical re-shaping that the game in Scotland needed.

"This would be the fourth time that the 10-team division structure has been tried and the past has proved that it is tired and will not work," said the UEFA match agent, who organises glamour fixtures for clubs.

His organisation has put forward their own scheme to the SPL and the Old Firm to improve the game north of the border.

In it the SPL would change from 12 teams playing 38 matches to 16 sides playing 30 matches.

At the end of each season two teams would be relegated from the SPL and two teams promoted from Scottish Football League Division One.

This would mean a loss of eight matches per team per season. The lost matches would be replaced by a new competition – The Scottish Premier Cup, which would involve the 16 teams in four groups of four and then going on to a knock-out phase which would give a minimum of six extra games.

Added Bonnar, "This 10-team plan unveiled in the papers will not help clubs like Dunfermline.

"The teams coming down from SPL One will have parachute payments which will give them a clear advantage over the other SPL Two sides and make it so hard for the other sides to compete on a level playing field.

"In effect these plans will marginalise the four senior Fife clubs even further.

"I get the impression that Celtic and Rangers are behind these weekend plans as they want to play each other four times to maximise their income but the fact remains that the game in Scotland cannot be run simply for the benefit of two clubs."