As far as football goes Petrie etc can go do one

[Captain Trips]

Unfortunatly I fear CC is not the man to make Hibs push on, he for me hasnt showed me anything at all to turn the wasters in Hibs shirts around. Yeah its not his team as yet but by now I would like some signs he has the guile.

With the state of the game here and with other clubs and our stadium and resources its a disgrace our bumbling about season after season, 3rd or 4th without a struggle IMO. Its not CCs fault but I dont really rate him so feel we are just going to be looking for another manager sooner rather than later, Petrie and the rest have failed to stabilise our footballing side and I fear losing the only 2 or 3 good players we have. Sorry Rod but the training and stadium and support do not befit a team in our position yet again.

Totally unacceptable league standing.

[bingo70]

Unfortunatly I fear CC is not the man to make Hibs push on, he for me hasnt showed me anything at all to turn the wasters in Hibs shirts around. Yeah its not his team as yet but by now I would like some signs he has the guile.

With the state of the game here and with other clubs and our stadium and resources its a disgrace our bumbling about season after season, 3rd or 4th without a struggle IMO. Its not CCs fault but I dont really rate him so feel we are just going to be looking for another manager sooner rather than later, Petrie and the rest have failed to stabilise our footballing side and I fear losing the only 2 or 3 good players we have. Sorry Rod but the training and stadium and support do not befit a team in our position yet again.

Totally unacceptable league standing.

Unbelievable.

He's just in the door, i'm actually quite happy that it's taking a while to sort it out, there's a massive job to be done turning round the mindset of the players, improving the playing staff and organising them, if he had sorted all of that out in the space of a few weeks then it would have just been papering over the cracks and wouldn't have told us anything.

For me this season is a write off, we won't go down IMO so i'll be judging calderwood from next season.

[Toaods]

He kens we're mince and is just shutting the doors up as any decent manager would be doing.

Rather that than some big gob***** slavering a load of pants.

Killie were bound to be sharper than us from the off, only a fool woud expect differently the way they have been playing.

Sounded to me that we made the better chances with de Graaf taking the wrong options but Miller's red card will hurt us a bit, no real flair in midfield for Hamilton so to be honest, I'd rather the game is postponed....it will suit us better.

[Gatecrasher]

Unbelievable.

He's just in the door, i'm actually quite happy that it's taking a while to sort it out, there's a massive job to be done turning round the mindset of the players, improving the playing staff and organising them, if he had sorted all of that out in the space of a few weeks then it would have just been papering over the cracks and wouldn't have told us anything.

For me this season is a write off, we won't go down IMO so i'll be judging calderwood from next season.

agreed, to judge CC this season is completely missing the mark here

[Alfred E Newman]

Unbelievable.

He's just in the door, i'm actually quite happy that it's taking a while to sort it out, there's a massive job to be done turning round the mindset of the players, improving the playing staff and organising them, if he had sorted all of that out in the space of a few weeks then it would have just been papering over the cracks and wouldn't have told us anything.

For me this season is a write off, we won't go down IMO so i'll be judging calderwood from next season.

It is obvious that Calderwood realises now what a monumental task he faces turning this mediocre squad into winners. If the slide continues over the next few weeks especially after the transfer window it is inevitable that he will come under pressure from some of the support.
I feel that the club has been left in such a dire state by Yogi that we are going to find it very difficult to escape from the bottom of the table.

[skipster7]

He kens we're mince and is just shutting the doors up as any decent manager would be doing.

Rather that than some big gob***** slavering a load of pants.

Killie were bound to be sharper than us from the off, only a fool woud expect differently the way they have been playing.

Sounded to me that we made the better chances with de Graaf taking the wrong options but Miller's red card will hurt us a bit, no real flair in midfield for Hamilton so to be honest, I'd rather the game is postponed....it will suit us better.

Agree with most of that apart from miller, he usually just vanishes in a game thats a battle which that will be.its a game i would take a point in right now and i would rather he was available for Aberdeen tbh.

[IWasThere2016]

I feel that the club has been left in such a dire state by Yogi that we are going to find it very difficult to escape from the bottom of the table.

:agree: Yogi's left us in a mess. The Board have componded the mess though IMHO.

We have no cash to address the team - indeed we've more debt and therefore more cost. Wages:income is too high.

There is increasing apathy within the support.

A 21,000 capacity and poor team will impact on STs.

Thus impacting on the manager's budget.

There is also the distinct possibility of the better players leaving for nowt - and there rest being worth hee haw!

Now we'll really see how good our Board are - personally I think they'll be found out ..

Finally, I don't agree with the OP re CC one bit. The man has a HUGE task ahead of him.

[ScottB]

:agree: Yogi's left us in a mess. The Board have componded the mess though IMHO.

We have no cash to address the team - indeed we've more debt and therefore more cost. Wages:income is too high.

There is increasing apathy within the support.

A 21,000 capacity and poor team will impact on STs.

Thus impacting on the manager's budget.

There is also the distinct possibility of the better players leaving for nowt - and there rest being worth hee haw!

Now we'll really see how good our Board are - personally I think they'll be found out ..

Finally, I don't agree with the OP re CC one bit. The man has a HUGE task ahead of him.

Can we keep blaming Hughes though?

We all thought Mixu was mince, yet he's got Killie playing nicely, wouldn't surprise me to see Hughes do a decent job wherever he ends up next either.

The blame for our poor performances is to be laid at the door of our lazy, under performing, unfit, work shy excuse of a playing squad.

[Ozyhibby]

Jose Mourinho could not make our current squad into a half decent team never mind a good one. Why folk think Calderwood should be able to within 2 months of getting the job amazes me.
GIVE HIM TIME!:grr:

[Stonewall]

Unfortunatly I fear CC is not the man to make Hibs push on, he for me hasnt showed me anything at all to turn the wasters in Hibs shirts around. Yeah its not his team as yet but by now I would like some signs he has the guile.

With the state of the game here and with other clubs and our stadium and resources its a disgrace our bumbling about season after season, 3rd or 4th without a struggle IMO. Its not CCs fault but I dont really rate him so feel we are just going to be looking for another manager sooner rather than later, Petrie and the rest have failed to stabilise our footballing side and I fear losing the only 2 or 3 good players we have. Sorry Rod but the training and stadium and support do not befit a team in our position yet again.

Totally unacceptable league standing.

Beyond stupid.

[Aldo]

TBH anyone on here that thought CC would be able to sort out the ***** we have must be mental.

I wrote the season off TBH and YES i do blame Hughes for the mess we are in....He was the one that brought the pish during the windows he had.....

For me its a damage limitation exercise between now and the end of the season cos we are cack. CC knows this and to be fair to him he was left a pile of crap no manager could sort out.

The guy needs time and not just 8 months or so. At least 3 windows to bring in his players and I am sure both CC and DA know who they want to bring in.

He needs time and thats what he will get from me.

[basehibby]

As far as the OP is concerned I think it's way too early to draw any conclusions about the strengths and weaknesses of CC. I don't have too lofty ambitions for this season either but I think the return of Zemama and Duffy could make a major difference to the way things pan out - also the Jan transfer window may offer some room for manoevre.

Re Petrie et al - our board is well known for it's frugality and perhaps, with a newly completed stadium on the balance sheet - financed in part by the departure of last season top scorer, a season of mediocrity is what we should have expected. Doesn't make it any easier to take though.

Whether that should be considered a failure on the part of the board will depend on how the season pans out - if we end up in a comfortable league poition then the gamble will have paid off - if we end up anywhere near the relegation spots though then the wisdom of the board's strategy should be called into question.

[Sir David Gray]

Unbelievable.

He's just in the door, i'm actually quite happy that it's taking a while to sort it out, there's a massive job to be done turning round the mindset of the players, improving the playing staff and organising them, if he had sorted all of that out in the space of a few weeks then it would have just been papering over the cracks and wouldn't have told us anything.

For me this season is a write off, we won't go down IMO so i'll be judging calderwood from next season.

We have now won just SEVEN matches in the SPL in ten and a half months, which is 32 matches now. That run is just 6 matches short of a full season's worth of games and seven wins in a season would usually see you relegated.

If things don't turn around dramatically in the next couple of months, there is every chance that we will be relegated this season.

You can argue that Hamilton, St Mirren and Aberdeen are even more likely to go down but we have two of those teams in the next eight days. The last time we went to New Douglas Park, we lost 4-1, we are the last SPL side that Aberdeen managed to beat (in fact we are the ONLY SPL side that Aberdeen has managed to beat in the last four months) and next Sunday will also be Craig Brown's first match in charge of Aberdeen....Do I need to say anymore on that one? :boo hoo:

If we lose both those games, relegation could become an even bigger possibility by the time 2011 comes.

I agree with the sentiments of your post though, I don't believe Calderwood's position should be called into question this season, unless we do go down. I would accept 11th spot at the moment and then try to build from there for next season.

[bingo70]

We have now won just SEVEN matches in the SPL in ten and a half months, which is 32 matches now. That run is just 6 matches short of a full season's worth of games and seven wins in a season would usually see you relegated.

If things don't turn around dramatically in the next couple of months, there is every chance that we will be relegated this season.

You can argue that Hamilton, St Mirren and Aberdeen are even more likely to go down but we have two of those teams in the next eight days. The last time we went to New Douglas Park, we lost 4-1, we are the last SPL side that Aberdeen managed to beat (in fact we are the ONLY SPL side that Aberdeen has managed to beat in the last four months) and next Sunday will also be Craig Brown's first match in charge of Aberdeen....Do I need to say anymore on that one? :boo hoo:

If we lose both those games, relegation could become an even bigger possibility by the time 2011 comes.

I agree with the sentiments of your post though, I don't believe Calderwood's position should be called into question this season, unless we do go down. I would accept 11th spot at the moment and then try to build from there for next season.

I know it's not impossible we could go down, i just don't think we will, imo we'll scrape together enough home wins to stay up comfortably.

Don't think we'll finish top 6 though.

[BT58]

Top 6!!!!!,,sorry mate,, but there's NO chance with
that happening with this team
CC must be allowed to get at least 3-5 new players
in com January,,
The next 2 games are going to be very crucial to us for
this season,, a wee run in the cup can bring some form
To the league campaign
JH has a lot to answer for

[Spike Mandela]

Where's all the threads saluting the fantastic stadia and training centre? They've all disappeared.

This is where we have ended up and it ain't Yogi's, Mixus or anybody else's fault it's the inevitable outcome of our clubs recent strategy.Sell anybody remotely decent at the peak of their powers and invest in concrete. No point moaning about it now.

CC's task is to keep us in the league this year and then begin the slow , slow painfully slow improvement to the squad. The much proclaimed 'gradual improvement' and 'upward spiral' begins now and on the pittance CC will see for player improvements it will take Years.

[Captain Trips]

Firstly take CC out of equation, what is unbeleivable and beyond stupid is after getting the infrasructure at the club well on track and to the betterment of most teams in SPL we have good fans on here talking of writing off the season etc.


The writing off seasons and being in bottom half of table at turn of year should not be happening its a shambolic state of affairs to be in yet again, 3 and 4th should now be almost par for course IMO.

My point on CC is totally not his fault we are in more transition but watching Hibs over last few weeks/months could be Mixu or Hughes or CC in charge. I did not expect CC to have us winning every week for me I havent seen anything new or dynamic at all, I just think its more of the same and do not see or have seen what he will offer as per Hughes.

IMO the board are at fault that we still havent kicked on,there are lots of players also not fit for purpose and in CC I do not see it.

[Littlest Hobo]

The only solution is to bring in a few quality experienced players in my opinion.

The Tache won't spend so it's more of the same to come I'm affraid.

I've got tickets for tynie but I'm becoming more and more worried this lot of players could end up being on the end of yet another derby humiliation:boo hoo:

[matty_f]

The only solution is to bring in a few quality experienced players in my opinion.

The Tache won't spend so it's more of the same to come I'm affraid.

I've got tickets for tynie but I'm becoming more and more worried this lot of players could end up being on the end of yet another derby humiliation:boo hoo:

Petrie's paid for quality experienced players (or at least, quality in the eyes of the manager that signed them!) De Graaf, Hart, Riordan, Murray, Miller, McBride... none of them are spring chickens and with the exception of McBride from that bunch, all have had a decent career in the game.

Petrie also sanctioned the signing of JJ when Mixu was in charge, and he was if anything, over-experienced!

[Jim44]

The only solution is to bring in a few quality experienced players in my opinion.

The Tache won't spend so it's more of the same to come I'm affraid.

I've got tickets for tynie but I'm becoming more and more worried this lot of players could end up being on the end of yet another derby humiliation:boo hoo:


I'm bored stiff and angry hearing Petrie getting all the plaudits. Yes he's got us a decent bank balance compared to our competitors and yes, he's got the stadium looking well. But personally I would have given up a fair bit of both to have a half decent team on the park. I'm not trying to start off the worn out argument about speculate to accumulate as I know the supporters are devided on it and fed up talking about it. Whether we like it or not, we are up the creek although Calderwood still has a tentative grip on the paddle. It's up to Petrie to allow him to improve his grip on the paddle or whether he'll stand back and allow it to drop into the creek for at least one or more seasons. The present squad, IMHO, is totally incapable of getting us out of the mess and I think that anyone, who thinks that a clearout, replaced by a few cheapies or bosmen from 'Calderwood's English connections' that we keep hearing about, will solve our problem, is in for a disappointment to say the least.

[Sir David Gray]

I know it's not impossible we could go down, i just don't think we will, imo we'll scrape together enough home wins to stay up comfortably.

Don't think we'll finish top 6 though.

It's almost definite that we will finish in the bottom six this season, if you look at the trends that have been set in previous seasons. No side has ever been in our position at this point in the season and gone on to finish in the top six.

[matty_f]

It's almost definite that we will finish in the bottom six this season, if you look at the trends that have been set in previous seasons. No side has ever been in our position at this point in the season and gone on to finish in the top six.

Barring a remarkable turnaround in form, we're definitely (and deservedly) going to finish in the bottom 6 this season. It's a disgrace :agree:

The only thing that will turn it around, IMHO, is by getting some players in January who can genuinely lift the side. Having Duffy and Zemmama close to returning to the side should help, and then it will come down to sheer luck as to whether or not Calderwood's side has enough about them to go on a run good enough to take them into the top 6 come the split.

[HibeeSince85]

Calderwood can't do anything to change the squad until next month, that's when we'll see a difference in Hibs, for the better or worse? Who knows! Petrie's backed managers before and he'll back Calderwood, he has to, a club the size of Hibs has to be comfortably sitting in the top 6 and challenging for Europe, Minimum, just as much for financial reasons as it does for us having a good team to watch.

[Sir David Gray]

Barring a remarkable turnaround in form, we're definitely (and deservedly) going to finish in the bottom 6 this season. It's a disgrace :agree:

The only thing that will turn it around, IMHO, is by getting some players in January who can genuinely lift the side. Having Duffy and Zemmama close to returning to the side should help, and then it will come down to sheer luck as to whether or not Calderwood's side has enough about them to go on a run good enough to take them into the top 6 come the split.

You're right, it is disgraceful and it is also embarrassing.

For a club like Hibs to be facing a season like this is just not on. This group of players, whilst not being good enough (in my opinion) to be challenging for 3rd or even 4th if I'm being honest, should be more than capable of finishing in the top six. I don't think I'm being arrogant when I say that finishing in the top six should be a given for Hibs and should be the least of our expectations every single season.

The fact that we're probably going to be in the bottom six for the first time in seven years is just terrible and the players should be ashamed of themselves for how they have performed for almost a year now, with the exception of only a handful of games during that time.

Will they be? Somehow, I don't think most of them will give our plight a second thought, once they've left the pitch at the end of a game.

[Toaods]

CC was interviewed postmatch by BBC and said "there are a couple of players we have watched but that their clubs may not want to lose them as they are under contract.....and we have to respect that".

[HibeeSince85]

CC was interviewed postmatch by BBC and said "there are a couple of players we have watched but that their clubs may not want to lose them as they are under contract.....and we have to respect that".

Make a bid, respect the clubs by not publicly chasing a player through the media yeah but if there are players out there that CC wants at Hibs and presumably thinks they want to come here then let's see what we can do.

[matty_f]

Make a bid, respect the clubs by not publicly chasing a player through the media yeah but if there are players out there that CC wants at Hibs and presumably thinks they want to come here then let's see what we can do.

Actually think we should just do what every other club does and do what's necessary to get the player. We seem to get shafted all the time being the nice guys.

[Vini1875]

Firstly take CC out of equation, what is unbeleivable and beyond stupid is after getting the infrasructure at the club well on track and to the betterment of most teams in SPL we have good fans on here talking of writing off the season etc.


The writing off seasons and being in bottom half of table at turn of year should not be happening its a shambolic state of affairs to be in yet again, 3 and 4th should now be almost par for course IMO.

My point on CC is totally not his fault we are in more transition but watching Hibs over last few weeks/months could be Mixu or Hughes or CC in charge. I did not expect CC to have us winning every week for me I havent seen anything new or dynamic at all, I just think its more of the same and do not see or have seen what he will offer as per Hughes.

IMO the board are at fault that we still havent kicked on,there are lots of players also not fit for purpose and in CC I do not see it.

That makes less sense than your original post. Last season hearts, who have spent way more than Hibs were in the same position as we are now. Our problem is simply not at board level but at the playing level. Too many of our guys on the park think they are better than they are. Too many are unwilling to scrap and fight for every ball. We have too many bottlers.

The board backed both Mixu and Yogi, they bought a lot of players who couldn't handle it at Hibs and too many who think they have made it. A clear out is on the way and I hope it will open the door for younger hungrier players to be given a chance. Too many journey in a squad which is too small, so they know they will not be dropped as there is no alternative to their mediocrity at the moment.

[HibeeSince85]

Actually think we should just do what every other club does and do what's necessary to get the player. We seem to get shafted all the time being the nice guys.

I'm all for that, be ruthless! but still do it right, for all the hassle we're going through the now with the team I do like the way we keep things quiet and just get on with what we need to do instead of running commentry through the media.

But yeah definately go for what we want, bit more ruthless and although we don't have a load of cash we have more than a few of our rivals so go out there and force clubs hands.

[FitbaFolkKen]

To be honest I am quite pleased that it is taking a while to sort out, I think if he had come in and results had turned on their head then we would be left with unrealistic ambitions. A major part of Yogi and Mixu's quick downfall, was largely due to intially raising the supports expectations and then papering over the cracks. Then we only got the real problems when their reigns were coming to an end.

CC hasn't worked wonders but I enjoy listening to what he has to say about the club and hope he follows it up when he gets the opportunity to change the squad for the better.

Genuinely excited about the transfer window and the end of the season.....should be major changes :thumbsup:

[Captain Trips]

That makes less sense than your original post. Last season hearts, who have spent way more than Hibs were in the same position as we are now. Our problem is simply not at board level but at the playing level. Too many of our guys on the park think they are better than they are. Too many are unwilling to scrap and fight for every ball. We have too many bottlers.

The board backed both Mixu and Yogi, they bought a lot of players who couldn't handle it at Hibs and too many who think they have made it. A clear out is on the way and I hope it will open the door for younger hungrier players to be given a chance. Too many journey in a squad which is too small, so they know they will not be dropped as there is no alternative to their mediocrity at the moment.


It makes perfect sense, Mixu, Yogi bought players who didnt work, take it up a level Hibs appointed managers that didnt work then as they bought poor players in the main so if the manager goes through that why does it stop at that level.

Way too many managers appointed means no stability.

[PaulSmith]

To be honest I am quite pleased that it is taking a while to sort out, I think if he had come in and results had turned on their head then we would be left with unrealistic ambitions. A major part of Yogi and Mixu's quick downfall, was largely due to intially raising the supports expectations and then papering over the cracks. Then we only got the real problems when their reigns were coming to an end.

CC hasn't worked wonders but I enjoy listening to what he has to say about the club and hope he follows it up when he gets the opportunity to change the squad for the better.

Genuinely excited about the transfer window and the end of the season.....should be major changes :thumbsup:

Might be major changes but we'll be looking at bosman players and other teams willing and able to pay more will have first dibs, Hibs are way down the pecking order. Bar a Scottish cup win (lol) season ticket sales will drop for next season, a low league finish will see income drop considerably for 2010/11 and considering that we lost close on 2m this year only a fool would think that the managers budget will be retained at the same level.
CC's job is to build a team from almost scratch, get them to gel and address the pathetic attitude that emanates from Easter Road dressing room. If he succeeds then I'll be delighted as well as amazed.

[HFC 0-7]

Might be major changes but we'll be looking at bosman players and other teams willing and able to pay more will have first dibs, Hibs are way down the pecking order. Bar a Scottish cup win (lol) season ticket sales will drop for next season, a low league finish will see income drop considerably for 2010/11 and considering that we lost close on 2m this year only a fool would think that the managers budget will be retained at the same level.
CC's job is to build a team from almost scratch, get them to gel and address the pathetic attitude that emanates from Easter Road dressing room. If he succeeds then I'll be delighted as well as amazed.

Agree with this.

people think that because we have the opportunity to empty all the players that are out of contract we can just replace them. CC could be in a position where he has to replace mediocre players with mediocre players. The team is already lacking in depth and we could lose around 10 players due to contracts expiring. That means we need to find 10+ players which are free or have a small fee, which are still within our wage structure. This will be almost impossible IMO.

If hibs dont want to run the risk of having another bad season next year they need to keep the majority of out of contract players and then add to them. Although the performances have been terrible of late, games like the Rangers one show that some of these players can play better and not that they are just rubbish. Somehow we need to get the best out of what we have and I dont think thats happening just now. May be down to the manager, maybe dressing room unrest. My opinion is that many of the players that are out of contract already see their futures away from ER and thats why there is a lack of effort apart from the big games.

[blackpoolhibs]

Agree with this.

people think that because we have the opportunity to empty all the players that are out of contract we can just replace them. CC could be in a position where he has to replace mediocre players with mediocre players. The team is already lacking in depth and we could lose around 10 players due to contracts expiring. That means we need to find 10+ players which are free or have a small fee, which are still within our wage structure. This will be almost impossible IMO.

If hibs dont want to run the risk of having another bad season next year they need to keep the majority of out of contract players and then add to them. Although the performances have been terrible of late, games like the Rangers one show that some of these players can play better and not that they are just rubbish. Somehow we need to get the best out of what we have and I dont think thats happening just now. May be down to the manager, maybe dressing room unrest. My opinion is that many of the players that are out of contract already see their futures away from ER and thats why there is a lack of effort apart from the big games.

I think it would be very difficult to replace the sheite thats leaving with worse players. Any manager worth his salt, must be able to bring in better players that the crap we will lose in the summer.

[matty_f]

I think it would be very difficult to replace the sheite thats leaving with worse players. Any manager worth his salt, must be able to bring in better players that the crap we will lose in the summer.

The other thing to note is we don't need to replace every player leaving the club. We've got folk going out of contract that hardly ever get a sniff of the first team, or are in positions that are well covered.

The squad is too big, we can easily stand to lose a few bodies without getting an immediate replacement, whilst still improving the overall quality of the squad.

[sesoim]

Folk here are making the Hibs job sound a lot harder than it is. A good manager could rearrange that team and motivate it to start picking up points more like it did in the first half of last season. I've seen it happens hundreds of time before in football. Apart from Stokes leaving, not a lot has changed personnel wise. We have appointed a manager with a very mediocre record, and that's what I think we will get from him - mediocrity. A good manager could sign 3 or 4 players and get us climbing the table, but I don't think CC is capable of that.

Hughes was crap but let's not make out that CC would have to be the new Mourinho to turn things around. You only have to look at what Jimmy Calderwood, Craig Levein, Jeffries at Hearts and even Mixu at Killie have done in recent times in the SPL to see that a good manager can turn a club around quickly. We have a better playing budget than 8 of the other 11 teams in the League, so frankly it shouldn't be hard for us to get a decent team sorted out within the next few months.

But then again, we did employ COLIN Calderwood....

[sesoim]

Agree with this.

people think that because we have the opportunity to empty all the players that are out of contract we can just replace them. CC could be in a position where he has to replace mediocre players with mediocre players. The team is already lacking in depth and we could lose around 10 players due to contracts expiring. That means we need to find 10+ players which are free or have a small fee, which are still within our wage structure. This will be almost impossible IMO.

If hibs dont want to run the risk of having another bad season next year they need to keep the majority of out of contract players and then add to them. Although the performances have been terrible of late, games like the Rangers one show that some of these players can play better and not that they are just rubbish. Somehow we need to get the best out of what we have and I dont think thats happening just now. May be down to the manager, maybe dressing room unrest. My opinion is that many of the players that are out of contract already see their futures away from ER and thats why there is a lack of effort apart from the big games.


I'd keep about six of them and dump the rest. The wages of the outgoing nine or so would be enough for us to sign four or five stronger "core" players, ie a reliable, leader-like CB, a dominant midfielder and a good target man. That would leave room for a few youngsters to break through as well.

A good manager should be able to find bargains, so to say we will have to replace mediocrity with mediocrity is total rubbish. A good manager will get good value for money, which unfortunately the managers Petrie has appointed since Mowbray have failed to do for us. Hopefully CC will prove me wrong and break that trend.

[Liberal Hibby]

But then again, we did employ COLIN Calderwood....

Yup - after employing Hughes, Paatelinen, Collins, Mowbray, Williamson, McLeish and the various interim managers - all since 2000.

If you're turning over a manager once every 18 months you are never going to 'kick on' because you're simply establishing a team and management style, again and again and again.

It has to stop - and we need to get some long term planning and development in the managerial staff as well as playing staff. If that means a couple of seasons in the bottom six with a relegation scare or two so be it. The madness has to end - and that goes for the fickle fans calling for the head of the manager after 10 weeks in the job or demanding their favourite incoherent centre half or silky midfielder be appointed when a vacancy arises - which it has to stop doing so frequently.

[ScottB]

Folk here are making the Hibs job sound a lot harder than it is. A good manager could rearrange that team and motivate it to start picking up points more like it did in the first half of last season. I've seen it happens hundreds of time before in football. Apart from Stokes leaving, not a lot has changed personnel wise. We have appointed a manager with a very mediocre record, and that's what I think we will get from him - mediocrity. A good manager could sign 3 or 4 players and get us climbing the table, but I don't think CC is capable of that.

Hughes was crap but let's not make out that CC would have to be the new Mourinho to turn things around. You only have to look at what Jimmy Calderwood, Craig Levein, Jeffries at Hearts and even Mixu at Killie have done in recent times in the SPL to see that a good manager can turn a club around quickly. We have a better playing budget than 8 of the other 11 teams in the League, so frankly it shouldn't be hard for us to get a decent team sorted out within the next few months.

But then again, we did employ COLIN Calderwood....

So Hughes is crap but Mixu isn't? Even though he did hee haw with us too?

The player culture at the club is so broken it is clear that it can't be changed, since they rebelled against Collins it has been there, rotting away in the background, while both Mixu and Hughes had their faults, as time goes on I lay more and more blame at the feet of the playing staff.

Mixu is showing now at Killie what he can do with players who give a toss. Does anyone imagine he has a bigger budget for player acquisitions there (apparently the simple fix for sorting us out) than he did when he was at Hibs? Not a chance. I also don't think we could have brought in any other manager and done much better than CC has thus far.


The only way forward is to empty almost the entire squad, lay down the new laws and start again.

[ozhibs]

What is the actual situation, I keep hearing 16 players out of contract but are they out of contract in January or at the end of the season. Will they be allowed to leave/sign for other clubs in january or just sign "provisional contracts"
GGTTH

[Rossco1875]

calderwood is the man to take hibs foward and i will back him to the hills

[hibiedude]

It’s far too early to blame the new manager because he hasn’t been in the job long enough to make the required changes he feels are needed.

Both Mixu and Yogi must take some of the blame for the rubbish we have on the field masquerading as professional footballers but the board also have to take a long hard look at the direction they want to take this club.

We have great training facilities and a super stadium but the product on the field is the one that brings in the revenue and that has been very poor for too long.

We raise the capacity of the stadium to get better revenue but we have a product that isn’t attracting more fans then we have a wage structure that doesn’t attract quality players and on top of that we sell our best players to our opposition.

We need fresh ideas coming form the people who run the club they need to explain to the fans and ask for input because things will only get worse papering over the cracks isn’t the answer.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Unfortunatly I fear CC is not the man to make Hibs push on, he for me hasnt showed me anything at all to turn the wasters in Hibs shirts around. Yeah its not his team as yet but by now I would like some signs he has the guile.

With the state of the game here and with other clubs and our stadium and resources its a disgrace our bumbling about season after season, 3rd or 4th without a struggle IMO. Its not CCs fault but I dont really rate him so feel we are just going to be looking for another manager sooner rather than later, Petrie and the rest have failed to stabilise our footballing side and I fear losing the only 2 or 3 good players we have. Sorry Rod but the training and stadium and support do not befit a team in our position yet again.

Totally unacceptable league standing.

What an ill thought out argument. You go on about our stadium and resources, yet you don't acknowledge that sacrifices had to made to get there.

You talk about bumbling season after season, yet fail to mention that we won the league cup, and have consistenty been in the top six, and have made the top three.

You'd have been better off saying, "Hibs are playing really really bad and it no fair".

[RickyS]

It’s far too early to blame the new manager because he hasn’t been in the job long enough to make the required changes he feels are needed.

Both Mixu and Yogi must take some of the blame for the rubbish we have on the field masquerading as professional footballers but the board also have to take a long hard look at the direction they want to take this club.

We have great training facilities and a super stadium but the product on the field is the one that brings in the revenue and that has been very poor for too long.

We raise the capacity of the stadium to get better revenue but we have a product that isn’t attracting more fans then we have a wage structure that doesn’t attract quality players and on top of that we sell our best players to our opposition.

We need fresh ideas coming form the people who run the club they need to explain to the fans and ask for input because things will only get worse papering over the cracks isn’t the answer.

was it Mixu who paid near 100k each for Rankin and Nish?

[HFC 0-7]

I think it would be very difficult to replace the sheite thats leaving with worse players. Any manager worth his salt, must be able to bring in better players that the crap we will lose in the summer.

I am not saying he will replace them with worse players, I am just saying if he has to find 10 players in january and the summer I wouldnt expect a lot of them to be top notch, in fact I think he will be in a position where he may, for certain positions have little to pick from meaning he has to fill the position with a similar calibre of player as the one that has just left. Just look at our attacking options, we could lose Riordan, Nish I think most would agree isnt good enough which would leave us with Duffy (untested) and Trakys. We would then need to find someone as good as Riordan and 2 or 3 others.

Although I agree that we are crap just now, I dont think all the players are as bad as everyone is making out. IMO, something is rotten at hibs as every player is playing below par. Even the bad ones are playing bad which leads me to believe that there is something going on the background which is causing this, it may be a certain couple of players need emptied which would make the rest happy, I just dont know. One thing I do know is that the current crop of players are not playing to their abilities which can be backed up by them putting in a performance like the rangers one.

[HFC 0-7]

What an ill thought out argument. You go on about our stadium and resources, yet you don't acknowledge that sacrifices had to made to get there.

You talk about bumbling season after season, yet fail to mention that we won the league cup, and have consistenty been in the top six, and have made the top three.

You'd have been better off saying, "Hibs are playing really really bad and it no fair".

I think what everyone is annoyed about when it comes to hibs is that we are so inconsistent, in fact, over the last 10 years the only consistent league position we have had is 6th. A 3rd place finish followed by a 10th place finish. A 4th place finish followed by a 6th place finish with teams like Kilmarnock ahead of us.

This is why season tickets will never shoot up greatly after a good league placing because fans know that with hibs, the team could be stripped of its best players and a bad season to follow. Only once in the last 10 years have hibs followed a good season with another finishing 3rd then 4th.

Hibs are meant to be one of the most stable clubs financially but on the pitch we are one of the most eratic clubs in the SPL.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think what everyone is annoyed about when it comes to hibs is that we are so inconsistent, in fact, over the last 10 years the only consistent league position we have had is 6th. A 3rd place finish followed by a 10th place finish. A 4th place finish followed by a 6th place finish with teams like Kilmarnock ahead of us.

This is why season tickets will never shoot up greatly after a good league placing because fans know that with hibs, the team could be stripped of its best players and a bad season to follow. Only once in the last 10 years have hibs followed a good season with another finishing 3rd then 4th.

Hibs are meant to be one of the most stable clubs financially but on the pitch we are one of the most eratic clubs in the SPL.

Can't disagree about the lack of consistency, I can't honestly think of a period in the recent past when we have been consistent though.

[hibiedude]

was it Mixu who paid near 100k each for Rankin and Nish?

We could both run names that both Mixu and Yogi have brought to the club who have turned out to be a waste of money.

The two names you mention between them wouldn’t fetch the price you quoted if sold today.

[HFC 0-7]

Can't disagree about the lack of consistency, I can't honestly think of a period in the recent past when we have been consistent though.

This is why I think fans get so disheartened. When the board constantly talk about how stable we are and that we are moving forward etc etc, I know for myself I get annoyed about the season when we know that we are no where near able to challenge the top. People will naturally look for someone to blame, the more we go on where we under achieve and the board talk of good accounts the more people will start looking at the board for answers as to why the product on the pitch is not up to standard.

The stand and the training facilities count for nothing if the product on the pitch isnt improving, if nothing else it makes us look more like a club under achieving, we have this great training base that doesnt seem to be working as the team can hardly break out an attack, the stadium will start looking like its a reserve game every week with falling attendances. I have said it before but I think the board have forgot or dont know the best way to invest in the playing side. Yes money has gone into the squad but if you employ someone to use that money that doesnt know what they are doing it will be a waste of money. The board have proven they are good when they are in control of what to buy, ie land and concrete, when they let someone else spend the cash it has been a nightmare. The reason for this IMO is that the board are not emplying the right man for spending the cash.

The jury is still out for calderwood as he hasnt had the chance to buy. What I would say is that on a motivation point he doesnt seem any better than Yogi as the players dont look anymore up for it than when Yogi was in charge.

[Green_one]

I cannot believe people still think top 6 is a possible target.

Basically the squad needs a total overhaul and that cannot happen until summer. So we need to buckle down and keep well away from the relegation zone.

CC has the ideal opportunity to stamp his mark on the team post May. I have always said that the Board are obsessed with infrastructure and the lack of sucess on the park would get us into a spiral of falling Season Tickets. We can expect fewer again in 2011/12. So CC needs to use his network down south to score some decent players for little real cash.

The lack of youngsters coming through is worrying and if there are any that are worthwhile then we should try to blood them this season. Otherwise we are overspending at a time of falling gates. The formula is broken.

[blackpoolhibs]

I am not saying he will replace them with worse players, I am just saying if he has to find 10 players in january and the summer I wouldnt expect a lot of them to be top notch, in fact I think he will be in a position where he may, for certain positions have little to pick from meaning he has to fill the position with a similar calibre of player as the one that has just left. Just look at our attacking options, we could lose Riordan, Nish I think most would agree isnt good enough which would leave us with Duffy (untested) and Trakys. We would then need to find someone as good as Riordan and 2 or 3 others.

Although I agree that we are crap just now, I dont think all the players are as bad as everyone is making out. IMO, something is rotten at hibs as every player is playing below par. Even the bad ones are playing bad which leads me to believe that there is something going on the background which is causing this, it may be a certain couple of players need emptied which would make the rest happy, I just dont know. One thing I do know is that the current crop of players are not playing to their abilities which can be backed up by them putting in a performance like the rangers one.

I don't for one minute think CC will bring in 10 better players, but if 12-16 players leave, some of them are not even in the squad never mind team. They wont be missed, and their wages can be put towards others.

If we can bring in 6 better quality players, and they are supplemented by whats left, we surely must be on a better footing than we are at the moment.

Of course that might go tits up, and CC brings in a load of rubbish, but its clear to me we have a squad full of pish. And imo i'd only keep a handfull of the lot of them, and a drastic cull is needed if we are to improve quickly.

We could replace one or two, but would we see much improvement, i doubt it?

[BEEJ]

Mixu is showing now at Killie what he can do with players who give a toss. Does anyone imagine he has a bigger budget for player acquisitions there (apparently the simple fix for sorting us out) than he did when he was at Hibs? Not a chance. I also don't think we could have brought in any other manager and done much better than CC has thus far.
I think there could be other reasons why Mixu (so far) is doing better at Killie - on a smaller budget - than he ever did with us.


The only way forward is to empty almost the entire squad, lay down the new laws and start again.
I don't buy this argument. But let's imagine for a moment that it's correct. Let's imagine that Hibs football club has been cursed since the end of 2006 by an apparently poisonous dressing-room culture wherein the players (all of them, regardless of when they have been signed in the last three years) have the upper hand and dictate what happens at training and on the field of play.

Firstly, proper managers would have ways and means of dealing with such insurrection without having to plan 18 months ahead for a massive clear-out of virtually the whole squad. Do you think the likes of Walter Smith, Martin O'Neill, Alex Ferguson, Alex McLeish etc etc would tolerate this kind of thing for one instant?

Secondly, can anyone recall whether such a situation has arisen in British football ever in the past and been dealt with in this way? With all that's now written of the game in retrospect these days it would be interesting to know if such a scenario has ever unfolded before. I seriously doubt it.

Finally, what about the 8 or so players whose contracts run beyond June 2011 but who are currently part of this under-performing, under-achieving squad? Surely they are beset by the same cultural sickness and will pass it on to the new arrivals next summer unless they too are cleared out in June? That, after all is the way, it is argued, that this malaise has been transferred from one group of players to the next?

So if this genuinely is the problem at Hibs, don't stop at the 16 - get shot of the lot of them and fumigate the place before bringing in a whole new team.

Personally, I don't subscribe to this point of view. :wink:

[Captain Trips]

What an ill thought out argument. You go on about our stadium and resources, yet you don't acknowledge that sacrifices had to made to get there.You talk about bumbling season after season, yet fail to mention that we won the league cup, and have consistenty been in the top six, and have made the top three.

You'd have been better off saying, "Hibs are playing really really bad and it no fair".

Ill thought out, I think not, I do know the sacrifices and you say to get there? to get where? 9pts behing ICT having top 6 as an achievment? while we sacrifice clubs above and equal to us havent even got anything to sacrifice yet we sit 9pts adrift of a club like ICT.

IMO pushing OF as long as possible hopefully to xmas and certainly only looking to clubs above us, a joke we are in this position again with people discussing this season is a write off, a phrase all to common. Maybe the sacrifices you talk of have been too one sided, should now be and should have been over last year a club that 3rd/4th is as clear cut as the OF finishing 1/2. This of course is my view.

[blackpoolhibs]

I feel the sacrifices we have had to make, were needed. We have done a fantastic amount off the pitch, and you do have to remember we have had a cup win, and a European trip in the process.

We are in a great position now, although still losing money. How we can push the boat out anymore is a mystery to me. Its all about backing the manager, as they have done with previous ones. Its up to CC how he spends that money, its up to him to bring us success, success within our budget.

He could spend more than we have though, but look where that got us before.

[BEEJ]

Its all about backing the manager, as they have done with previous ones. Its up to CC how he spends that money, its up to him to bring us success, success within our budget.
:agree: Look at the players that Motherwell, Killie and ICT have managed to draft in on much smaller budgets than ours.

Moreso than ever before that is the defining quality in a club manager; whether ha can bring in talented players and assemble a squad on a limited budget.

Hopefully CC will make a positive start on that front next month.

[ScottB]

:agree: Look at the players that Motherwell, Killie and ICT have managed to draft in on much smaller budgets than ours.

Moreso than ever before that is the defining quality in a club manager; whether ha can bring in talented players and assemble a squad on a limited budget.

Hopefully CC will make a positive start on that front next month.

Problem is, half the folk round here would decry a lot of the players signed by our rivals if we had signed them instead as 'not Hibs class.' There's too much obsession round here that more money spent somehow equals better players and success.

Personally I'd much rather see us emulating the likes of ICT and Dundee United picking up lower league gems than risk spending a fortune on the next Alan O'Brien...

ICT are showing what a bunch of decent players who put in a shift and actually care can do, over a year unbeaten away from home, when was the last time Hibs went more than 3 or 4 games unbeaten? I'd bet their budget is probably half that of our own, if not less.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Ill thought out, I think not, I do know the sacrifices and you say to get there? to get where? 9pts behing ICT having top 6 as an achievment? while we sacrifice clubs above and equal to us havent even got anything to sacrifice yet we sit 9pts adrift of a club like ICT.

IMO pushing OF as long as possible hopefully to xmas and certainly only looking to clubs above us, a joke we are in this position again with people discussing this season is a write off, a phrase all to common. Maybe the sacrifices you talk of have been too one sided, should now be and should have been over last year a club that 3rd/4th is as clear cut as the OF finishing 1/2. This of course is my view.

I was taking a longer term view. Things are rotten just now, we are on a bad run, Hearts are on a good run.

My point was that you were praising the board for building a stand, and you were slagging them for not spending the money on players that they had, er, spent on the stand already. So as you had contradicted yoursef I thought your argument was ill thought out.

I agree that Hibs should do better, but we can't magic money out of the air, once we have spent it. We have to get our head down and get through this rotten season.

We can argue about whose fault it is till we're blue in the face and it won't make a difference. We can't turn back time and sign a better manager than Yogi, his legacy won't disappear overnight.

[BEEJ]

Problem is, half the folk round here would decry a lot of the players signed by our rivals if we had signed them instead as 'not Hibs class.'
I think in our current predicament any future genuine utterances of that phrase on here will be rightly decried as utterly pretentious and unrealistic.

[matty_f]

I was taking a longer term view. Things are rotten just now, we are on a bad run, Hearts are on a good run.

My point was that you were praising the board for building a stand, and you were slagging them for not spending the money on players that they had, er, spent on the stand already. So as you had contradicted yoursef I thought your argument was ill thought out.

I agree that Hibs should do better, but we can't magic money out of the air, once we have spent it. We have to get our head down and get through this rotten season.

We can argue about whose fault it is till we're blue in the face and it won't make a difference. We can't turn back time and sign a better manager than Yogi, his legacy won't disappear overnight.

Good post. :agree:

[matty_f]

I think in our current predicament any future genuine utterances of that phrase on here will be rightly decried as utterly pretentious and unrealistic.

And somewhat ridiculous.:agree:

[Captain Trips]

I was taking a longer term view. Things are rotten just now, we are on a bad run, Hearts are on a good run.

My point was that you were praising the board for building a stand, and you were slagging them for not spending the money on players that they had, er, spent on the stand already. So as you had contradicted yoursef I thought your argument was ill thought out.

I agree that Hibs should do better, but we can't magic money out of the air, once we have spent it. We have to get our head down and get through this rotten season.

We can argue about whose fault it is till we're blue in the face and it won't make a difference. We can't turn back time and sign a better manager than Yogi, his legacy won't disappear overnight.


Its not ill thought out or a contradiction, the job is a whole not just off park they have a job too do on it, yes the job off park was/is great however it could have been less so and still a good job with more emphasis on the park. As a whole sorry its not good enough balance is wrong.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The evidence that its the players rather than CC who are to blame for our ongoing poor results does seem to be there.

Witness that Mixu appears to be on the way to making a silk purse out of a sows ear at Killie who on paper have a much weaker squad than us, and that unlike a lot of clubs who get a new manager the response from our players seems to be more of the same as under Yogi.

I dont know what the answer is to this, coz CC aint going to get millions to spend in January or the summer.

Perhaps our ace in the hole could be Derek Adams who if he can get about 3 rough diamonds from the first division would be helping.

If CC can follow that up with 3 from the lower English leagues then perhaps we will see an improvement on the pitch.

One thing is for sure. We cant be shouting for CCs head until he has had a real chance. At least 2 full seasons IMO. I would though expect him in that time to oversee a real improvement in the team all over the pitch.

I would finish by saying that the way we are playing just now a win against Dundee Utd is highly unlikely. A defeat against Aberdeen, who are currently a bigger car crash than us, would be nothing short of a disaster and finally concentrate the minds of the board to the fact that relegation is a real possibility.

[RIP]

Here's my farthings worth

Petrie has never had a football director so has assumed the position himself
He handles all contracts and has done for years
Herein lies the root of the problem. He's the gaffer - the manager is just the temp coach
He could off course leave the hirings and firings to the manager
He could also keep faith and suffer a season (or two) of a bottom 6 for a longer term return
He simply does not have the football acumenen to realise that if you sell all the marketable players you need to rebuild root and branch and that takes time
So changing managers every year is a MASSIVE mistake
This leads to constant squad replacements which cost the club financially
The fans see no signs of progress and have to suffer 85 players in 5 years
Constant changes of playing style simply confuse any players we manage to keep on the books for more than a season
Crowds go down and we are back making a loss every year
So we end up with a new stand with no fans to fill it
And a new training centre with no impact on playing performances


The problems at Hibs are all of Petrie's making. He's an accountant who has helped build our infrastructure. He's served his purpose and it's time to retire.

It's now time to recruit a Football Director/Chairman to focus on our football infrastructure, sqaud building, youth development and the product on the park

[Barney McGrew]

4. He could off course leave the hirings and firings to the manager

What players has Petrie signed over any of our managers heads?

[Danderhall Hibs]

What players has Petrie signed over any of our managers heads?

Nish? According to JC he tried to get him to sign Rankin a few times as well - as soon as JC resigned he was in before Mixu.

Although technically there was no manager at the time so he didn't go over his head. :greengrin

[Barney McGrew]

Nish?

Nope.

IIRC we didn't sign him until the end of the window, with the reason being that Mixu wanted to see him play first.

[ahibby]

OP is a knee jerk. I wasn't surprised at the result and CC has implied that he doesn't think our defence is up to the job and so he will move some of them out.
Who was to blame for the goals? Going by the rules Miller shouldn't have been sent off but under the circumstances I wasn't surprised he was. Had we kept 11 players on the result might have been different.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nope.

IIRC we didn't sign him until the end of the window, with the reason being that Mixu wanted to see him play first.

That rings a bell. I don't think he saw him in the end though - there were a lot of cancellations at the time I think?

[Part/Time Supporter]

That rings a bell. I don't think he saw him in the end though - there were a lot of cancellations at the time I think?

He watched him in a cup game against Airdrie. The rub was that this meant that Nish was then cup-tied for Hibs in the next round against the Huns. Killie had been due to play a league game the previous Saturday that was called off which meant Mixu's only chance to watch him was in the cup tie. Obviously he would have preferred to watch the league game and not cup tie him.


I tend to agree with the view though that Petrie has taken it as far as he can. His record of hiring / firing managers is poor at best and his involvement with this SPL working group does not reflect well on the club IMO.

[blackpoolhibs]

Here's my farthings worth

Petrie has never had a football director so has assumed the position himself
I dont see any problem there?
He handles all contracts and has done for years
Most clubs do that now.
Herein lies the root of the problem. He's the gaffer - the manager is just the temp coach
Rubbish
He could off course leave the hirings and firings to the manager
Why was Mixu and Yogi slaughtered on here for their tactics, and team selections, when its Petries team?
He could also keep faith and suffer a season (or two) of a bottom 6 for a longer term return
He simply does not have the football acumenen to realise that if you sell all the marketable players you need to rebuild root and branch and that takes time
What player could we have kept, that was sold recently, and who could we have brought in that would have been an adequate replacement?
So changing managers every year is a MASSIVE mistake
IMost fans wanted rid of the last 2 managers, the one before left on his own free will
This leads to constant squad replacements which cost the club financially

The fans see no signs of progress and have to suffer 85 players in 5 years
Falkirkhibs brought the stats up on this, we were average compared to the rest of the clubs in the SPL in player turnover
Constant changes of playing style simply confuse any players we manage to keep on the books for more than a season
What changes in style have we had thats so radical from each manager?
Crowds go down and we are back making a loss every year
Crowds go down for lots of reasons, ours are pretty stable, and well up from the 70s and 80s
So we end up with a new stand with no fans to fill it
And a new training centre with no impact on playing performances

Typical short term view, we have just built the bloody things, they will need time to bear fruit.
The problems at Hibs are all of Petrie's making. He's an accountant who has helped build our infrastructure. He's served his purpose and it's time to retire.
An infrastructure thats still losing money each year
It's now time to recruit a Football Director/Chairman to focus on our football infrastructure, sqaud building, youth development and the product on the park

CC will do that job, if he's given time

[Danderhall Hibs]

He watched him in a cup game against Airdrie. The rub was that this meant that Nish was then cup-tied for Hibs in the next round against the Huns. Killie had been due to play a league game the previous Saturday that was called off which meant Mixu's only chance to watch him was in the cup tie. Obviously he would have preferred to watch the league game and not cup tie him.

Remember it now. Crazy decision really - watch him against a lower-league team meaning he's unavailable for the Cup games.

[Beefster]

Folk here are making the Hibs job sound a lot harder than it is. A good manager could rearrange that team and motivate it to start picking up points more like it did in the first half of last season. I've seen it happens hundreds of time before in football. Apart from Stokes leaving, not a lot has changed personnel wise. We have appointed a manager with a very mediocre record, and that's what I think we will get from him - mediocrity. A good manager could sign 3 or 4 players and get us climbing the table, but I don't think CC is capable of that.

Hughes was crap but let's not make out that CC would have to be the new Mourinho to turn things around. You only have to look at what Jimmy Calderwood, Craig Levein, Jeffries at Hearts and even Mixu at Killie have done in recent times in the SPL to see that a good manager can turn a club around quickly. We have a better playing budget than 8 of the other 11 teams in the League, so frankly it shouldn't be hard for us to get a decent team sorted out within the next few months.

But then again, we did employ COLIN Calderwood....

Someone might have already pulled you up on this but the bit in bold is an absolute myth with no basis in reality.

In three seasons at Northampton, he reached the play-offs twice and won promotion once.

At Forest, in two full seasons, he reached the play-offs once and won promotion once.

As assistant at Newcastle, they were relegated (he was only appointed in the second half of their relegation season) and then promoted at the first attempt.

If you consider that a mediocre record, I'd suggest your expectations are too high for the type of manager that Hibs can attract.

[Beefster]

What players has Petrie signed over any of our managers heads?

While Petrie may not have physically signed any players against the wishes of his manager, I was always under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that it was almost certain that Murray, Rankin and Nish would have signed irrespective of what manager had been appointed after Collins left.

[BEEJ]

While Petrie may not have physically signed any players against the wishes of his manager, I was always under the impression, rightly or wrongly, that it was almost certain that Murray, Rankin and Nish would have signed irrespective of what manager had been appointed after Collins left.
:agree: I think that's true, certainly of the Nish and Rankin deals.

Ultimately each signing was the manager's decision; but each came with the strongest possible recommendation of his CEO / Chairman. And the January 2008 transfer window was closing soon.

Hard to say no in those circumstances.

[Captain Trips]

OP is a knee jerk. I wasn't surprised at the result and CC has implied that he doesn't think our defence is up to the job and so he will move some of them out.
Who was to blame for the goals? Going by the rules Miller shouldn't have been sent off but under the circumstances I wasn't surprised he was. Had we kept 11 players on the result might have been different.

Knee Jerk, I think not.

Hibs have possibly been able to back their last 2,3 maybe even 4 managers with more resource than all other SPL clubs except for the OF and Hearts according to many in the know on here anyway, therefore for me no excuse for yet more bumbling about 6th 7th yet again, to have folk talking of season write off is shocking.

Disgrace IMO 4th manager in almost as many years, therefore somebody else meeds fired as cannot hire the right man to stop situations like we are in now. I fear this discussion will be had 12mth-18mths from now.

[matty_f]

Knee Jerk, I think not.

Hibs have possibly been able to back their last 2,3 maybe even 4 managers with more resource than the OF and Hearts according to many in the know on here anyway, therefore for me no excuse for yet more bumbling about 6th 7th yet again, to have folk talking of season write off is shocking.

Disgrace IMO 4th manager in almost as many years, therefore somebody else meeds fired as cannot hire the right man.

Hibs have been nowhere near the resource of the OF and the Yams in recent years. Who on earth thinks that? :confused:

[Captain Trips]

Hibs have been nowhere near the resource of the OF and the Yams in recent years. Who on earth thinks that? :confused:

Sorry I meant those 3 as an exception.

[HFC 0-7]

Someone might have already pulled you up on this but the bit in bold is an absolute myth with no basis in reality.

In three seasons at Northampton, he reached the play-offs twice and won promotion once.

At Forest, in two full seasons, he reached the play-offs once and won promotion once.

As assistant at Newcastle, they were relegated (he was only appointed in the second half of their relegation season) and then promoted at the first attempt.

If you consider that a mediocre record, I'd suggest your expectations are too high for the type of manager that Hibs can attract.

To be honest I dont think we can look at his managerial record and relate that to hibs. When he managed it was in the lower leagues, Northampton was a success, Forest was a bit up and down. He got them promoted but made hard work of it as they had a good lead at one point. He didnt do well in the championship at all.

To me the way his managerial career went it just showed he was learning, doing well but stuttered along the way and then struggled when he hit a higher league. IMO he did the correct thing after Forest, coached in a big club in a good league. The trouble is, is that the SPL is a very different league than those in England, its small, its fickle and there is no money. IMO, to be a success at a club like hibs you need good man management but need to know all about the other teams and how they play. I dont think calderwood knows to much about the other clubs or the best approach, but what he does have in his favour as he seems very open to learning, and if he makes mistakes will learn from them. Yogi made mistakes in team selection, ones that would never work but he was too hard headed to change.

IMO Calderwood will come good, my only concern is how long it will take.

[Stenny]

some people expect things to change in a month, the man needs time and lots of it.. give him a few years and see what happens... 70 days, i think not, its a long process, wont change overnight...

[Septimus]

Hopefully CC will not be given a small amount of cash in the January window to go out and buy another batch of underperformers. The strength of Hibs must lie in the ability to bring through young players. The system will not work if their developement is continually halted by incomers of moderate ability who are seeing out their careers in a team that they could not care less about. It will be interesting to see if the boys out on loan at present are brought back and given an opportunity to prove themselves.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Hopefully CC will not be given a small amount of cash in the January window to go out and buy another batch of underperformers. The strength of Hibs must lie in the ability to bring through young players. The system will not work if their developement is continually halted by incomers of moderate ability who are seeing out their careers in a team that they could not care less about. It will be interesting to see if the boys out on loan at present are brought back and given an opportunity to prove themselves.

There are plenty of seasoned pros who will do a job. However the problem is that a different style of management is needed with these guys than for youngsters keen to prove themselves.

I think one of the last managers' downfalls was that he had no credibility with the experienced players. Once you've done a job for a while it is a lot easier to spot bull, and a lot harder to ignore it.

I remember when Miller came, he was able to turn around the team with the addition of a couple of players who would never be world beaters, but who could do a job for us. No-one expected much in the long term from the likes of Dougie Bell or Stevie Cowan, but in the short term they were just what we needed.

This season we really are in a mess, and I think Calderwood should be looking at hard working, no nonsense players in the short run.

[Captain Trips]

After another match I fear I stick 100% with my original post, I will take great delight in this post being brought up in 6 months time in how wrong I was.

I think that wont be case, rotten from pitch to board.

[Captain Trips]

I will stick to my original views that I went with in fact its got worse, CC is not the man for us.

Maybe our players should gamble and get pished a bit more often as it hasnt done Stokes (allegedly) any harm.

[Perspective]

Here's my farthings worth

Petrie has never had a football director so has assumed the position himself
He handles all contracts and has done for years
Herein lies the root of the problem. He's the gaffer - the manager is just the temp coach
He could off course leave the hirings and firings to the manager
He could also keep faith and suffer a season (or two) of a bottom 6 for a longer term return
He simply does not have the football acumenen to realise that if you sell all the marketable players you need to rebuild root and branch and that takes time
So changing managers every year is a MASSIVE mistake
This leads to constant squad replacements which cost the club financially
The fans see no signs of progress and have to suffer 85 players in 5 years
Constant changes of playing style simply confuse any players we manage to keep on the books for more than a season
Crowds go down and we are back making a loss every year
So we end up with a new stand with no fans to fill it
And a new training centre with no impact on playing performances


The problems at Hibs are all of Petrie's making. He's an accountant who has helped build our infrastructure. He's served his purpose and it's time to retire.

It's now time to recruit a Football Director/Chairman to focus on our football infrastructure, sqaud building, youth development and the product on the park

Excellent post, but some people won't want to hear it.

[Captain Trips]

Does anyone whom disagreed with me over a month ago think any different?, I bring this out as the feelings I have 1 month later are still the same and for me it has got worse.

[Captain Trips]

Unfortunatly I fear CC is not the man to make Hibs push on, he for me hasnt showed me anything at all to turn the wasters in Hibs shirts around. Yeah its not his team as yet but by now I would like some signs he has the guile.

With the state of the game here and with other clubs and our stadium and resources its a disgrace our bumbling about season after season, 3rd or 4th without a struggle IMO. Its not CCs fault but I dont really rate him so feel we are just going to be looking for another manager sooner rather than later, Petrie and the rest have failed to stabilise our footballing side and I fear losing the only 2 or 3 good players we have. Sorry Rod but the training and stadium and support do not befit a team in our position yet again.

Totally unacceptable league standing.

8-9 months on I 100% stick by my thoughts and nothing has changed in that time to change this view, massive overhaul required not more time for managers, the board have had plenty of time.

[blackpoolhibs]

Does anyone whom disagreed with me over a month ago think any different?, I bring this out as the feelings I have 1 month later are still the same and for me it has got worse.

I disagree on a couple of thing i said earlier in this thread, CC wont get it right if he's given time, he's working his ticket out the club. He's ruining the team and needs to go now. Petrie can go too, he's appointed too many dumplings for him to continue in his job.

[down the slope]

Talking at the weekend to family and friends who have had ST's for over 20 years and have all watched Hibs for 20 years before that and not one of them has been to ER this season, now when you alienate fans who have done "time" as long as these guys you know that there is something seriously wrong at ER. I think myself that it will get worse , a lot lot worse before it gets any better, how bad that will be is anybody's guess but RP has nailed his colours to the mast of the good ship CC and so be it and maybe the end game will provoke changes that will be good for the club in the long run.

[Captain Trips]

I believe most of my points are still valid from original post infact even more so, IMO 9mths on still looking shambolic with players on short term deals, clueless manager, clueless board.

[Cropley10]

I disagree on a couple of thing i said earlier in this thread, CC wont get it right if he's given time, he's working his ticket out the club. He's ruining the team and needs to go now. Petrie can go too, he's appointed too many dumplings for him to continue in his job.

That double substitution and the following 'explanation' speaks volumes. Gross incompetence at best.