"Lawro" Solves Scottish League Dilemma

[Dan Sarf]

"It's a very serious situation. Something will have to be done."
Mark Lawrence, on BBC Football Focus this morning.

Where would we be without his expert analysis?

[Bristolhibby]

Everybody knows reducing the size of the league is not the correct answer, yet this is the direction the men in charge are taking us. Billy Dodds made some great points, nobody wants to see the same teams play 4 times. With only home and away the grounds will be full when the big teams come calling.

It appears that the risked for 4 Old Firm games a season is outweighing anything sensible. But what did I expect?

J

[jonny]

Everybody knows reducing the size of the league is not the correct answer, yet this is the direction the men in charge are taking us. Billy Dodds made some great points, nobody wants to see the same teams play 4 times. With only home and away the grounds will be full when the big teams come calling.

It appears that the risked for 4 Old Firm games a season is outweighing anything sensible. But what did I expect?

J

Agree with this particular point but I do agree with some of the other proposals put forward as part of the plan. I like the idea of the lower leagues being regionalised - that way we're not going to have small teams travelling hundreds of miles for games which will hopefully reduce their costs a bit. I also like the idea of top sides being allowed to put 2nd teams into the regional leagues, it would more than compensate for the lack of a reserve league as it would be competitive with other teams in the league trying to get promotion.
The tier system so that top Junior, Senior and Highland league sides have an access route to the league seems sensible as well.

[snooky]

Agree with this particular point but I do agree with some of the other proposals put forward as part of the plan. I like the idea of the lower leagues being regionalised - that way we're not going to have small teams travelling hundreds of miles for games which will hopefully reduce their costs a bit. I also like the idea of top sides being allowed to put 2nd teams into the regional leagues, it would more than compensate for the lack of a reserve league as it would be competitive with other teams in the league trying to get promotion.
The tier system so that top Junior, Senior and Highland league sides have an access route to the league seems sensible as well.

I take it that these reserve teams won't be allowed to enter Cups because they could draw their 'A' team in it. Also, if a reserve team wins a lower league do they get promoted and if so, how far up the set up can they go? The SPL? If they can't get promotion then you have the odd situation of a runner up being promoted (or no team promoted?).

Re. regionalising the lower leagues, will their makeups be changed from season to season to balance up the different geographic locations of teams promoted & relegated?

There's a bit of deep thinking to be done before any of these new ideas come into fruition.

[Moulin Yarns]

I take it that these reserve teams won't be allowed to enter Cups because they could draw their 'A' team in it. Also, if a reserve team wins a lower league do they get promoted and if so, how far up the set up can they go? The SPL? If they can't get promotion then you have the odd situation of a runner up being promoted (or no team promoted?).

Re. regionalising the lower leagues, will their makeups be changed from season to season to balance up the different geographic locations of teams promoted & relegated?

There's a bit of deep thinking to be done before any of these new ideas come into fruition.


Another question I have about the second teams is the possible promotion of reserves into the main team. Would the team squads be fixed outwith the transfer windows as it would be unfair on the lower leagues if, for example, Riordan is coming back from injury and gets a run in the second team to get match fit and then is promoted (transferred) to the first team.

[basehibby]

Another question I have about the second teams is the possible promotion of reserves into the main team. Would the team squads be fixed outwith the transfer windows as it would be unfair on the lower leagues if, for example, Riordan is coming back from injury and gets a run in the second team to get match fit and then is promoted (transferred) to the first team.

I would have thought that might be part of the attraction - ie the odd star player turning out in the lower leagues might encourage the neutral (and not so neutral) support along to some of these games.

[basehibby]

Everybody knows reducing the size of the league is not the correct answer, yet this is the direction the men in charge are taking us. Billy Dodds made some great points, nobody wants to see the same teams play 4 times. With only home and away the grounds will be full when the big teams come calling.

It appears that the risked for 4 Old Firm games a season is outweighing anything sensible. But what did I expect?

J

:agree: - Whatever the process they've gone through to reach their recommendations for the top league it appears to be totally wrong headed to me.
One of the most important questions to be asked in any business is what do the customers want? If this question has been asked at all then the customers in mind would appear to be Sky Sports and ESPN rather than the actual end users - the football supporters themselves - ie the people who actually care about the future of the game rather than corporations salivating over their next short term fix of dollars.

[Moulin Yarns]

I understand from what I heard on the radio that Hibs are part of the working party that came up with this gem of a proposal. :rolleyes:

Petrie, get it sorted!!

[MSK]

Another question I have about the second teams is the possible promotion of reserves into the main team. Would the team squads be fixed outwith the transfer windows as it would be unfair on the lower leagues if, for example, Riordan is coming back from injury and gets a run in the second team to get match fit and then is promoted (transferred) to the first team.Thats why second teams are being proposed..to introduce young players into a competitive setting & of course first team players who are recovering from injury etc ..i dont see how that would be deemed as unfair ..

[Moulin Yarns]

Thats why second teams are being proposed..to introduce young players into a competitive setting & of course first team players who are recovering from injury etc ..i dont see how that would be deemed as unfair ..

Lets say Brechin v Hibs reserves at Easter Road, with Murray, Hart, Rankin and Nish all involved for hibs, why would that be fair? Brechin would struggle (hopefully) and not have a chance. By all means it gives the younger players a chance but shouldn't be used to undermine the chances of 'real' lower league teams to progress, IMHO of course.

[MSK]

Lets say Brechin v Hibs reserves at Easter Road, with Murray, Hart, Rankin and Nish all involved for hibs, why would that be fair? Brechin would struggle (hopefully) and not have a chance. By all means it gives the younger players a chance but shouldn't be used to undermine the chances of 'real' lower league teams to progress, IMHO of course.Surely that improves the competition for Brechin though for their players to be playing that standard week in week out ..if i was a Brechin player thats the calibre of player i would be wanting to play against ..:agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

Surely that improves the competition for Brechin though for their players to be playing that standard week in week out ..if i was a Brechin player thats the calibre of player i would be wanting to play against ..:agree:

Yeh, a bit like playing in the SPL knowing you could never get better than 3rd because of the uneven playing field :confused: No chance of promotion because one of the 'big team's wee teams' would always be able to field better players whenever they want. There needs to be a limit on what the reserve teams can be allowed to do to 'improve the standard' as you put it.

I would propose having a seperate squad for the reserve team with 'transfers' between the first team and reserve team limited to the transfer windows, perhaps with the exception of players returning from injury being limited to three games for the reserves

[blackpoolhibs]

Yeh, a bit like playing in the SPL knowing you could never get better than 3rd because of the uneven playing field :confused: No chance of promotion because one of the 'big team's wee teams' would always be able to field better players whenever they want. There needs to be a limit on what the reserve teams can be allowed to do to 'improve the standard' as you put it.

I would propose having a seperate squad for the reserve team with 'transfers' between the first team and reserve team limited to the transfer windows, perhaps with the exception of players returning from injury being limited to three games for the reserves

Just bring back reserve team football.

[MSK]

Yeh, a bit like playing in the SPL knowing you could never get better than 3rd because of the uneven playing field :confused: No chance of promotion because one of the 'big team's wee teams' would always be able to field better players whenever they want. There needs to be a limit on what the reserve teams can be allowed to do to 'improve the standard' as you put it.

I would propose having a seperate squad for the reserve team with 'transfers' between the first team and reserve team limited to the transfer windows, perhaps with the exception of players returning from injury being limited to three games for the reservesWhy wouldnt there be promotion ..? SPL reserve teams would most likely remain in the league even if they did win it ..:confused:

Surely the appeal of playing against SPL standard players on an almost weekly basis will be a spur for the lesser teams ..

[snooky]

Just bring back reserve team football.

Simple :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

Why wouldnt there be promotion ..? SPL reserve teams would most likely remain in the league even if they did win it ..:confused:

Surely the appeal of playing against SPL standard players on an almost weekly basis will be a spur for the lesser teams ..

OK, there might still be promotion for being 'best of the rest' like everybody outside the ugly sisters in the SPL strive for third, but that would be a hollow victory IMHO. Yes some 'lesser' teams will raise their game, but could they do it consistently, Imagine you are East Stirling in the cup and you know before hand you have to play, Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd to win the cup. Do you think they would be able to raise their game for every match?

I just think there would need to be some form of limit to what us bigger teams would be allowed to do in the lower leagues to make it fairer on the smaller teams, a level playing field if you will. Or as BH said, resurrect the reserve league.

[MSK]

OK, there might still be promotion for being 'best of the rest' like everybody outside the ugly sisters in the SPL strive for third, but that would be a hollow victory IMHO. Yes some 'lesser' teams will raise their game, but could they do it consistently, Imagine you are East Stirling in the cup and you know before hand you have to play, Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd to win the cup. Do you think they would be able to raise their game for every match?

I just think there would need to be some form of limit to what us bigger teams would be allowed to do in the lower leagues to make it fairer on the smaller teams, a level playing field if you will. Or as BH said, resurrect the reserve league.Well ..if i was a Brechin player i would rather play against Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, etc as opposed tae the likes o Elgin, Annan, Stranraer, or Albion rovers ..

[blackpoolhibs]

Well ..if i was a Brechin player i would rather play against Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, etc as opposed tae the likes o Elgin, Annan, Stranraer, or Albion rovers ..

Well i'd rather our players were playing against similar quality players, or even better. Not inferior ones.

[Sas_The_Hibby]

OK, there might still be promotion for being 'best of the rest' like everybody outside the ugly sisters in the SPL strive for third, but that would be a hollow victory IMHO. Yes some 'lesser' teams will raise their game, but could they do it consistently, Imagine you are East Stirling in the cup and you know before hand you have to play, Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd to win the cup. Do you think they would be able to raise their game for every match?

I just think there would need to be some form of limit to what us bigger teams would be allowed to do in the lower leagues to make it fairer on the smaller teams, a level playing field if you will. Or as BH said, resurrect the reserve league.

At least they'd get through the first round no problem! :wink::greengrin

[Don Giovanni]

To go back to the OP, Mark Lawrenceson is a complete waste of space. He offers nothing constructive, ever. His "expert opinion" amounts to the bleedin' obvious. Worst of all he'll be on a bloody good salary paid by the license tax!

His performance at this years World Cup was particularly awful.

[ekhibee]

Just a side query regarding reserve teams playing in the lower leagues: Does that mean Rod and co would bump up the prices of season tickets if we were fielding a reserve team, cos we would be playing more home games 1 way or another?

[1two]

I don't understand us going back to a 10 team league. We changed to 12 as this was seen as progress. Why go back when it never worked before?

Why not do a 2 season trial of an 18-20 team spl? If. It doesn't work after the first season they can decide to change it back to their 10 team league for the following season.

It's utter garbage just now and 10 teams is worse!

[jdships]

Just bring back reserve team football.

Absolutely :agree:
So simple :greengrin

[Removed]

Just a side query regarding reserve teams playing in the lower leagues: Does that mean Rod and co would bump up the prices of season tickets if we were fielding a reserve team, cos we would be playing more home games 1 way or another?

Would probably just charge a couple of quid for "cat a" reserve games and rest would be covered by ST as before

[blackpoolhibs]

Absolutely :agree:
So simple :greengrin

I think it is just that simple, the only people who would profit from SPL clubs playing in the lower leagues would be your Brechins and Arbroaths.

Our players would get nothing from it, they need to play against better quality, quality thats trying to push into their clubs first team.

With the greatest of respect, how many Brechin or Arbroath players would do that?

[Speedy]

I don't understand us going back to a 10 team league. We changed to 12 as this was seen as progress. Why go back when it never worked before?

Why not do a 2 season trial of an 18-20 team spl? If. It doesn't work after the first season they can decide to change it back to their 10 team league for the following season.

It's utter garbage just now and 10 teams is worse!

I can't see that being popular because teams at the lower end of the SPL(at the moment) wouldn't want to risk being relegated.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

In Germany it's the u23 teams who play in the lower leagues. Last year I went to Werder Bremen II's game against Dynamo Dresden in div 3. Most of the top teams have a II team in the lower leagues.

Not sure what would happen if both the main and II side ever ended up in the same league? I'm guessing the II team would be demoted. They are also not allowed to enter the German Cup.

[Phil D. Rolls]

"It's a very serious situation. Something will have to be done."
Mark Lawrence, on BBC Football Focus this morning.

Where would we be without his expert analysis?

If it's very serious, we really should sit up and take notice. People like Lawro don't mince words, and I'm with him, something has to be done.

http://www.phillyist.com/attachments/philly_jill/down_with_this_sort_of_thing.jpg

[Bostonhibby]

If it's very serious, we really should sit up and take notice. People like Lawro don't mince words, and I'm with him, something has to be done.

http://www.phillyist.com/attachments/philly_jill/down_with_this_sort_of_thing.jpg

:agree: "Dae Something, Dae Something" cry the mob. "Miracles, ya mug ye" Think it was a quote from the early Billy Connolly album the Crucifixion :greengrin
Seems appropriate.

[muirhousehibby]

I take it that these reserve teams won't be allowed to enter Cups because they could draw their 'A' team in it. Also, if a reserve team wins a lower league do they get promoted and if so, how far up the set up can they go? The SPL? If they can't get promotion then you have the odd situation of a runner up being promoted (or no team promoted?).

Re. regionalising the lower leagues, will their makeups be changed from season to season to balance up the different geographic locations of teams promoted & relegated?

There's a bit of deep thinking to be done before any of these new ideas come into fruition.

They have being doing this system in the ladies league's already. if for eg hibs 1st team in the spl. And the colts team were in the spl 2. Even if the colts won the league they would never be promoted as both teams cannot play in the same league.

If the 1st team got relegated and the colts won spl 2 the colts would also be relegated to league below. They play for a league cup and the are aloud to both play in the scottish cup.

i think it's a excellent idea. instead of giving younger players loan deals we can keep them developing under hibs watchful eye and play at a decent level too.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: "Dae Something, Dae Something" cry the mob. "Miracles, ya mug ye" Think it was a quote from the early Billy Connolly album the Crucifixion :greengrin
Seems appropriate.

:faf: "Gonnae turn ra water intae wine n'at?"

ps It was Billy Connolly Live, the track was "The Crucifixion".

http://anacarlo.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/father-ted-careful-now.jpg

[Bostonhibby]

:faf: "Gonnae turn ra water intae wine n'at?"

ps It was Billy Connolly Live, the track was "The Crucifixion".

http://anacarlo.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/father-ted-careful-now.jpg

Cheers FR, saved me a trip up to the loft tae check the album.been playing on my mind............boring day,

[sparky]

"Lawro" has a face for radio and a voice for the newspaper. How that man ever carved out a career on TV is beyond me.

[dangermouse]

:agree: "dae something, dae something. dae one of yon holy tricks." cry the mob. "miracles, ya mug ye" think it was a quote from the early billy connolly album the crucifixion :greengrin
seems appropriate.

iirc

[Bostonhibby]

iirc

:agree: definitely was :not worth

[alexedwards]

This:

http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/sport/thepars/articles/2010/12/16/408296-pars-chairmans-anger-at-10team-spl-plan/