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NAE NOOKIE
03-12-2010, 01:03 PM
As it says on the tin.

What chance do the also rans in club and international football have of ever winning anything when seeding in the European Club competitions and International football tournaments mean that the mega clubs and big countries always avoid each other until the last moment.

This is nothing to do with football or fairness and everything to do with money and T.V.

The light at the end of the tunnel is however that this sort of system is beginning to reach its inevitable conclusion. I.E. the 'so called' Champions League is turning into one big bore fest as every season 8 of the same big 16 or so reach the quarter finals and the same with the world cup, where in reality only about 8 countries ever have a chance of getting to the final.

Perhaps one day we will get back to the good old days where names were chucked into a hat and you hoped for a good draw.

Gatecrasher
03-12-2010, 01:20 PM
As it says on the tin.

What chance do the also rans in club and international football have of ever winning anything when seeding in the European Club competitions and International football tournaments mean that the mega clubs and big countries always avoid each other until the last moment.

This is nothing to do with football or fairness and everything to do with money and T.V.

The light at the end of the tunnel is however that this sort of system is beginning to reach its inevitable conclusion. I.E. the 'so called' Champions League is turning into one big bore fest as every season 8 of the same big 16 or so reach the quarter finals and the same with the world cup, where in reality only about 8 countries ever have a chance of getting to the final.

Perhaps one day we will get back to the good old days where names were chucked into a hat and you hoped for a good draw.:top marks

Hibs Class
03-12-2010, 01:24 PM
As it says on the tin.

What chance do the also rans in club and international football have of ever winning anything when seeding in the European Club competitions and International football tournaments mean that the mega clubs and big countries always avoid each other until the last moment.

This is nothing to do with football or fairness and everything to do with money and T.V.

The light at the end of the tunnel is however that this sort of system is beginning to reach its inevitable conclusion. I.E. the 'so called' Champions League is turning into one big bore fest as every season 8 of the same big 16 or so reach the quarter finals and the same with the world cup, where in reality only about 8 countries ever have a chance of getting to the final.

Perhaps one day we will get back to the good old days where names were chucked into a hat and you hoped for a good draw.


Couldn't agree more. This has been a real bugbear of mine for years. It not only has the effects you outline but also becomes self perpetuating, e.g. Scottish teams get harder ties in Europe or go through more qualifying rounds, so don't proress as far, so the co-efficient suffers and we get fewer places and so on. Really cannot see it changing anytime soon, sadly.

.Whitey.
03-12-2010, 01:35 PM
As it says on the tin.

What chance do the also rans in club and international football have of ever winning anything when seeding in the European Club competitions and International football tournaments mean that the mega clubs and big countries always avoid each other until the last moment.

This is nothing to do with football or fairness and everything to do with money and T.V.

The light at the end of the tunnel is however that this sort of system is beginning to reach its inevitable conclusion. I.E. the 'so called' Champions League is turning into one big bore fest as every season 8 of the same big 16 or so reach the quarter finals and the same with the world cup, where in reality only about 8 countries ever have a chance of getting to the final.

Perhaps one day we will get back to the good old days where names were chucked into a hat and you hoped for a good draw.

:top marksits all about the money these days

Woody1985
03-12-2010, 02:28 PM
Seeding is a joke and is making football boring at the top level.

Dashing Bob S
03-12-2010, 03:17 PM
Brilliant post. The constsnt appearance of the same teams encourages an armchair audience and a soap opera spectating mentality.

I love seeing top players playing against each other but the predictability of football is starting to bore me. Find myself watching American sports with salary caps like ice hockey and basketball more, just to get buzzed again on the uncertainty of outcome.

SRHibs
03-12-2010, 03:33 PM
Having seedings ensures that the competition is as competitive as possible. The teams that get through deserve to get through, as it's not been as a result of 'the luck of the draw'.

It's fine the way it is.

Lang Toun Hibs
03-12-2010, 03:39 PM
Yeah, Maribor must have felt this way when they got drawn against us earlier this year....


I do agree with your point though!

Woody1985
03-12-2010, 04:12 PM
Having seedings ensures that the competition is as competitive as possible. The teams that get through deserve to get through, as it's not been as a result of 'the luck of the draw'.

It's fine the way it is.

I agree with this in principle but the money at the top level has distorted the game meaning the select few create a strangle hold at the top end. Competitive, yes, boring as seasons go on, definitely.

ginger_rice
03-12-2010, 05:31 PM
As it says on the tin.

What chance do the also rans in club and international football have of ever winning anything when seeding in the European Club competitions and International football tournaments mean that the mega clubs and big countries always avoid each other until the last moment.

This is nothing to do with football or fairness and everything to do with money and T.V.

The light at the end of the tunnel is however that this sort of system is beginning to reach its inevitable conclusion. I.E. the 'so called' Champions League is turning into one big bore fest as every season 8 of the same big 16 or so reach the quarter finals and the same with the world cup, where in reality only about 8 countries ever have a chance of getting to the final.

Perhaps one day we will get back to the good old days where names were chucked into a hat and you hoped for a good draw.

:agree::agree: Couldn't agree more

discman
03-12-2010, 06:22 PM
If you look at the winners of the world cup from the thirties to present day,and the losing finalists,do you think seeding was responsible for these outcomes?

Personally I dont think so, Brazil have it won it 5 times and would beat whoever you put in front of them, national sides appear to go through cycles,depending upon the quality of the players they have available.

With regard to champions league,yup dead right its all about money,thats capitalism for you,if you can afford the best players available you buy them,not rocket science.

NFL and NHL have seeding,they also have draft picksie you finish last in the league you get first dibs on who is considered the best player,it does sort of ensure that theres a kinda distribution of talent, I know this is a bit simplistic
but you get my point!

But given the money and power why should we be surprised that our game is used to benefit a small minority at the expense of the passionate majority :greengrin

Gatecrasher
03-12-2010, 06:59 PM
Brilliant post. The constsnt appearance of the same teams encourages an armchair audience and a soap opera spectating mentality.

I love seeing top players playing against each other but the predictability of football is starting to bore me. Find myself watching American sports with salary caps like ice hockey and basketball more, just to get buzzed again on the uncertainty of outcome.


Iv found myself watching less football since I started watching NFL where it seems anybody can beat anybody, where as football it's the same teams over and over.

I posted on here a while ago that football is becoming very repetitive and boring with the same clubs reaching the finals all the time.

hibeeleicester
04-12-2010, 12:07 AM
Maybe a question for you older generation..... :greengrin

Before seeding, was there ever a really controversial draw?

EG. Man Utd, Real Madrid, Ac Milan, Barca

If so, who did it involve, what was the public reaction and what was the outcome?

Removed
04-12-2010, 12:11 AM
Maybe a question for you older generation..... :greengrin

Before seeding, was there ever a really controversial draw?

EG. Man Utd, Real Madrid, Ac Milan, Barca

If so, who did it involve, what was the public reaction and what was the outcome?

Rangers v Celtc in a SC semi draw.

Public reaction was total shock and it was headline news at 6 and 10pm

Outcome was a sacking at the SFA for not leaving one of the balls in the fridge long enough.

Pete
04-12-2010, 12:42 AM
Having seedings ensures that the competition is as competitive as possible. The teams that get through deserve to get through, as it's not been as a result of 'the luck of the draw'.

It's fine the way it is.


Ridiculous.

How can a competition ever be truly competative when stronger teams are deliberately paired with weaker teams to do battle with to see who goes through to the latter stages of a tournament?

Aye right it's great the way it is. Only five or so teams will ever win the world cup and only five or so teams will ever win the champions league.

Football is about the luck of the draw in cup competitions. We have leagues over the space of forty odd games for the best team to come out on top.

one day maybe...
04-12-2010, 12:55 AM
Shirley the Champions league should be the Champions from every league in Europe, chucking their car keys in the fruit bowl and seeing who they are paired with, each and every round... **** all this second and third and sometimes fourth placed teams in a league getting into the CHAMPIONS league when they ain't even Champions.. all wrong IMO :grr:

.Whitey.
04-12-2010, 08:38 AM
Iv found myself watching less football since I started watching NFL where it seems anybody can beat anybody, where as football it's the same teams over and over.

I posted on here a while ago that football is becoming very repetitive and boring with the same clubs reaching the finals all the time.


:agree: its very difficult to predict who will win in the NFL, which makes it so much more exciting to watch

Hibercelona
04-12-2010, 08:52 AM
Shirley the Champions league should be the Champions from every league in Europe, chucking their car keys in the fruit bowl and seeing who they are paired with, each and every round... **** all this second and third and sometimes fourth placed teams in a league getting into the CHAMPIONS league when they ain't even Champions.. all wrong IMO :grr:

:agree:

And **** teams getting another chance in the Europa when they get knocked out the CL. :grr:

Caversham Green
04-12-2010, 10:43 AM
If Scotland had qualified for this years world cup and then got a group with USA, Algeria and Slovenia I would have been reasonably confident of going through to the next round and our game sorely needs a boost like that. However if Scotland qualify we will always get a harder group than England (or any of the other big nations) because of seeding. We also get harder qualifying groups in the first place. I can't see how that can be considered remotely fair and it does nothing to promote the game in Scotland.

It does put a bit of perspective on our achievement of qualifying for 5 WCs in a row when we weren't seeded to qualify for any of them.

NAE NOOKIE
04-12-2010, 11:10 AM
If Scotland had qualified for this years world cup and then got a group with USA, Algeria and Slovenia I would have been reasonably confident of going through to the next round and our game sorely needs a boost like that. However if Scotland qualify we will always get a harder group than England (or any of the other big nations) because of seeding. We also get harder qualifying groups in the first place. I can't see how that can be considered remotely fair and it does nothing to promote the game in Scotland.

It does put a bit of perspective on our achievement of qualifying for 5 WCs in a row when we weren't seeded to qualify for any of them.

Bang on and the problem with seeding in a nutshell.

Clubs like Hibs or Maribor or F.C Brugge and even the big Dutch clubs now can never match the spending power of the likes of Inter, A.C. Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc.

The result is that the giants always stay in Europe to at least the quarters, this means more TV money, more sponsorship money, more gate money and more prize money. Resulting in more money to use for wages and transfer fees. The result being they can compete at the top level the following season .... and on and on it goes with even the big German clubs who it would appear just aint prepared to spend insane money ( good for them ) beginning to lag behind.

If UEFA continue with this policy I am sure it may keep the TV fans happy but eventually the fans will stop going to the matches. In fact I am willing to bet that the stats will show that crowds for the first 5 years of the so called Champions league are higher than for the last 5 years.

Even with names in a hat the cream will rise to the top, but at least you might get one unfashionable team in the semis or even final instead of the usual suspects.