Can someone explain something to me?

[Pretty Boy]

After the 'trouble' at last nights Birmingham derby i have seen it said on the news that both clubs can expect heavy fines for 'failing to control their support'.

So how can clubs control their support outwith providing the recommended number of stewards and police (and extra in Birminghams case)? Surely if the clubs follow the guidelines and recommendations, ensure adequate segregation and have a clear policy on crowd behaviour then they have done everything they possibly can. Surely if trouble, pitch invasions, flares or coins are thrown etc then the failings are those of the Police and stewards rather than the club? Should it not be the stewarding company and the Police who are under scrutiny as opposed to the clubs?

Thoughts?

[blackpoolhibs]

After the 'trouble' at last nights Birmingham derby i have seen it said on the news that both clubs can expect heavy fines for 'failing to control their support'.

So how can clubs control their support outwith providing the recommended number of stewards and police (and extra in Birminghams case)? Surely if the clubs follow the guidelines and recommendations, ensure adequate segregation and have a clear policy on crowd behaviour then they have done everything they possibly can. Surely if trouble, pitch invasions, flares or coins are thrown etc then the failings are those of the Police and stewards rather than the club? Should it not be the stewarding company and the Police who are under scrutiny as opposed to the clubs?

Thoughts?

:agree: Its just easier to hit the clubs imo, and be seen to addressing the problem. When you are quite right, the clubs have done their best, but been let downs by the police, the stewards and their supporters.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

The worlds greatest league? The media continues to attempt to blank out the hooliganism issue that still clearly exists in englands leagues (all of them), last night we seen acts of serious disorder and, on the eve of the world cup bid outcome, it is still clearly evident that englands football leagues are still marred by casuals and violence. It was as bad as any polish or italian violence and the ruling bodies ought to step in and punish them. Flares being thrown into stands could have caused a fire and possibly fatal injuries. Still, like the beeb says, it was just a spot of trouble.

[Hibbyradge]

Supporters are part of a football club. If they misbehave, the club rightly gets punished.

Also, can you imagine what would happen if they fined the police and the stewards instead? There would be trouble every week.

[Jack]

By fining the club I suspect the authorities and the club will be hoping peer pressure will be brought to bare among the fans thereby reducing the chances of it happening in the future.

Its been quite effective, even at clubs like Hibs, where there's a very good chance the guilty will be identified and dealt with. Trouble in and around SPL games is a fraction of what it once was.

[Antifa Hibs]

Always amazes me that if Havant & Waterloo invade a pitch its 'joyful celebrations' yadda yadda, a big team does it and its 'mindless thuggery behaviour'.

I'm not condoning (sp?) last night but what did we really have, a mini pitch invasion off about 200 fans, a line of police seperating them, few coins and seats thrown and a flare. Shows how tame fitba in england has become if that now makes front-page news. If that happened at Turkey, Greece, France, Italy, Poland... No-one would bat an eyelid. :confused:

From what i've been reading the polis had this down as a 'low-risk' game, despite 2 seasons ago some commander guy saying he would have this match played at 7am due to a fear of violence.... Hmmm

[steakbake]

I have to admit to feeling a warm glow listening to the radio coverage of the pitch invasion. A Tory government, snow falling everywhere jamming up the country, protests and footie violence - takes you back :rolleyes:

[dangermouse]

After the 'trouble' at last nights Birmingham derby i have seen it said on the news that both clubs can expect heavy fines for 'failing to control their support'.

So how can clubs control their support outwith providing the recommended number of stewards and police (and extra in Birminghams case)? Surely if the clubs follow the guidelines and recommendations, ensure adequate segregation and have a clear policy on crowd behaviour then they have done everything they possibly can. Surely if trouble, pitch invasions, flares or coins are thrown etc then the failings are those of the Police and stewards rather than the club? Should it not be the stewarding company and the Police who are under scrutiny as opposed to the clubs?

Thoughts?


This is the most difficult area to police IMO. Police and stewards can prevent pitch invasions if properly deployed (but most of the time they sit in the corner watching the game) whereas the throwing of coins etc will only be stopped if we are all searched and forced to hand over loose change etc at the turnstiles.

[Sir David Gray]

Yet another example of why football stewards are absolutely a waste of space.

If a couple of hundred people want to get onto the pitch, they will get onto the pitch, unless there are two banks of stewards surrounding all four stands for the entire 90 minutes and if they did that, the people in the front few rows wouldn't be able to see a thing.

The people involved in the violence last night are the only ones who should be punished and hopefully Birmingham's CCTV will be able to identify everyone responsible and they will be banned/arrested as the club/Police see fit.

Thankfully that kind of behaviour in UK football grounds is rare nowadays and the vast majority of football supporters know how to conduct themselves.

[LancashireHibby]

From what i've been reading the polis had this down as a 'low-risk' game, despite 2 seasons ago some commander guy saying he would have this match played at 7am due to a fear of violence.... Hmmm

If they have 500 officers on duty for a low risk game then they must outnumber the crowd at a Category C game!


Yet another example of why football stewards are absolutely a waste of space.

If a couple of hundred people want to get onto the pitch, they will get onto the pitch, unless there are two banks of stewards surrounding all four stands for the entire 90 minutes and if they did that, the people in the front few rows wouldn't be able to see a thing.

The people involved in the violence last night are the only ones who should be punished and hopefully Birmingham's CCTV will be able to identify everyone responsible and they will be banned/arrested as the club/Police see fit.

Thankfully that kind of behaviour in UK football grounds is rare nowadays and the vast majority of football supporters know how to conduct themselves.

Would you get in their way for minimum wage?

[Sir David Gray]

Would you get in their way for minimum wage?

No, I wouldn't.

I don't necessarily blame the stewards for not getting too involved with angry fans but it just reinforces my point that I just don't see the need for having them at the football.

The people who don't invade pitches or throw objects at opposition fans at the moment are not going to be any more likely to be involved in that kind of behaviour if stewards were withdrawn, than they are at the moment and those that do indulge in that sort of stuff will do it anyway, regardless of who is on patrol, as I have already said.

I really don't think that going to a football match would become any less safe if stewards were done away with.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

I have to admit to feeling a warm glow listening to the radio coverage of the pitch invasion. A Tory government, snow falling everywhere jamming up the country, protests and footie violence - takes you back :rolleyes:

Aye, your right mate, Tory ****z :grr:

1982 all over again.

[LancashireHibby]

No, I wouldn't.

I don't necessarily blame the stewards for not getting too involved with angry fans but it just reinforces my point that I just don't see the need for having them at the football.

The people who don't invade pitches or throw objects at opposition fans at the moment are not going to be any more likely to be involved in that kind of behaviour if stewards were withdrawn, than they are at the moment and those that do indulge in that sort of stuff will do it anyway, regardless of who is on patrol, as I have already said.

I really don't think that going to a football match would become any less safe if stewards were done away with.

At some point somewhere the role of a matchday steward has been completely re-worded - their original purpose is to merely assist people in getting to and from their seat and any other minor query. At no point have they ever been intended to act as a cheap replacement for the police, but that seems to be the general way that supporters and maybe even clubs see them.

[Darth Hibbie]

At some point somewhere the role of a matchday steward has been completely re-worded - their original purpose is to merely assist people in getting to and from their seat and any other minor query. At no point have they ever been intended to act as a cheap replacement for the police, but that seems to be the general way that supporters and maybe even clubs see them.

The overriding feeling within the clubs and the police (in Scotland in particular) is that there should be less and less police within the grounds and it should be covered by stewards as much as possible.

It is going to be near impossible to stop folk taking things into the ground and no matter how many stewards are in the ground you are not going to stop a group of people getting on the park its more a matter of how you contain it when it does happen.

[LancashireHibby]

The overriding feeling within the clubs and the police (in Scotland in particular) is that there should be less and less police within the grounds and it should be covered by stewards as much as possible.

It is going to be near impossible to stop folk taking things into the ground and no matter how many stewards are in the ground you are not going to stop a group of people getting on the park its more a matter of how you contain it when it does happen.

I wouldn't necessarily say should is the right word to use - they would definitely prefer it purely as it saves thousands to avoid having police at a game, but I think it's a calculated risk more than anything.

[Darth Hibbie]

I wouldn't necessarily say should is the right word to use - they would definitely prefer it purely as it saves thousands to avoid having police at a game, but I think it's a calculated risk more than anything.

:agree:

It is a cost decision at the end of the day. There would also appear to be a reluctance from the stewarding companies to employ more SIA registered stewards (also a cost decision) for football matches.

I suppose its a difficult one to call with the vast majority of games passing by without incident.

[Removed]

At some point somewhere the role of a matchday steward has been completely re-worded - their original purpose is to merely assist people in getting to and from their seat and any other minor query. At no point have they ever been intended to act as a cheap replacement for the police, but that seems to be the general way that supporters and maybe even clubs see them.

I thought they were there to stop folk smoking in the bogs :confused:

And have you ever asked a steward to show you to a particular seat. Macar could do a better job of it in my experience.