World cup bids - Russia 2018 and Qatar 2022

[discman]

Agreed, I was being a bit flippant. I spoke to a couple of people this evening and one factor that both mentioned was the time difference for TV. Apparently this was a biggie.

Re: Qatar. What I say is true. When I was first in Doha in March of this year I was speaking to some of the local sports journos. We were talking about the bid and I laughed at the outrageous suggestion that a CITY (for that is what Qatar is) could hold the world's biggest sporting event, all in 50+ C heat. The sports guys looked at me as if I was mental and then went on to say that Qatar was very confident of getting it. I asked why. 'Votes bought and paid for'.

I've a wee pieced in tomorrow's Scotsman about it. Under a pen-name as if I went under my real byline I would get deported. And the piece is pretty tame as well, straight. That tells you a lot about Qatar that I would get kicked out for making a few points about how unsuitable this place is for the World Cup.

It's laughable. Tragi-comic.


Yup agree with you check out the posts under the World Cup thread, and I'll be buying the "Scottieperson" tomorrow, get back to you :greengrin

[magpie1892]

Very sad, if not surprising, if what you say is true. I look forward to your Scotsman article.

It's not great, it's very placid (which is what I was asked for) when I really wanted to let rip.

So, please don't get your hopes up.

[Barney McGrew]

Mate, I live here at the moment. The place is farcical.

Fair enough. At least you're in a better position to judge than most.

Do you think they'll have everything together as planned in time?

[Sas_The_Hibby]

It's not great, it's very placid (which is what I was asked for) when I really wanted to let rip.

So, please don't get your hopes up.

It's okay, I wasn't expecting a sensational exposé! :wink::greengrin

[magpie1892]

Yup agree with you check out the posts under the World Cup thread, and I'll be buying the "Scottieperson" tomorrow, get back to you :greengrin

I had a wee look on the other thread, too depressing for words. Some guy claiming that the 'infrstructure is second to none' which I pointed out was wide of the mark by some distance. Then I had to get out of there, as there's some totally incredible stuff on there 'backed up' by opinions which are ill-informed at best.

I have drinkies with one half of the two-strong Hibs contingent here in Doha of a Friday and we were laughing at the very thought of a World Cup here. But who's laughing now? (apart from FIFA's bank manager)

[Sylar]

I'm afraid there's a chance that it could go the opposite way.

Al Qaeda and other such groups will already be planning ahead to 2022 and thinking about ways that they might disrupt the tournament. They have 11 and a half years to think about it.

They will not be happy about a Western influence like football coming into a Muslim country and thousands of "Western infidels" coming into a Muslim nation won't be welcomed with open arms either.

I hope I'm wrong but I certainly think it has the potential for disaster.

Sadly, you're nae wrong FH - this brings a mass of Western delegates, supporters and players into a very hot zone (politically as well as climatically). It also risks FIFA attempting to try and relax the laws on alcohol consumption and the exposure of any female fans/delegates who travel, which will fuel frustration.

The masses of money they're going to need to spend to get Qatar ready for the tournament (being as they have absolutely no stadia and by all accounts, a poor infrastructure) is going to cause regional friction, and I'm guessing that there may be extremist cells in that part of the world who will be seriously vexed that this money is being spent to accommodate this influx of Westerners.

Combine that with the bigger picture of sectarian conflicts and terrorist related activities around the globe, and it merely provides them an easy target and 11 years to plan how to cause the biggest amount of carnage.

[magpie1892]

It's okay, I wasn't expecting a sensational exposé! :wink::greengrin

Good! Like I say, a couple of things had to come out.

[Barney McGrew]

I had a wee look on the other thread, too depressing for words. Some guy claiming that the 'infrstructure is second to none' which I pointed out was wide of the mark by some distance. Then I had to get out of there, as there's some totally incredible stuff on there 'backed up' by opinions which are ill-informed at best

The 'some guy' was me, and it was a reference to the infrastructure in the region in general, and not Qatar in particular :cool2:

[magpie1892]

The 'some guy' was me, and it was a reference to the infrastructure in the region in general, and not Qatar in particular :cool2:

The World Cup is going to be in Qatar in particular, not the 'region in general'.

Additionally, I know UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and I've even been to Yemen and the infrastructure in all these countries is absolute chaos. You'd know this if you knew anything about the region.

Your assertion was totally, and I mean totally 'out there'.

[Barney McGrew]

The World Cup is going to be in Qatar in particular, not the 'region in general'.

Additionally, I know UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and I've even been to Yemen and the infrastructure in all these countries is absolute chaos. You'd know this if you knew anything about the region.

Your assertion was totally, and I mean totally 'out there'.

All I can do is comment on my experience of visiting many of the countries you mention as a tourist, and I found the transport links, accommodation etc. excellent.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Been to quatar once. Lots of money but the place is ridiculously hot. We had to get a cab 100m from the office to hotel for lunch. Not big on a bevvy either:boo hoo:

[magpie1892]

All I can do is comment on my experience of visiting many of the countries you mention as a tourist, and I found the transport links, accommodation etc. excellent.

You should have asked your captors to loosen your blindfold a wee bit.

Nowt wrong with the hotels, you're bang on there. The roads are a joke. 12 years to fix it though, so plenty time for the Indian gangs on £300 for a 260 hour month to get it up to speed.

But the weather. There's no fixing that. 53C we had in July here. Can't go out, can't walk 200yds at 2pm without feeling queasy. Cooled fan zones. Super. Stand in an air-cooled pen for the day. Bonus.

[magpie1892]

Been to quatar once. Lots of money but the place is ridiculously hot. We had to get a cab 100m from the office to hotel for lunch. Not big on a bevvy either:boo hoo:

£6.50 a pint in the hotel bars. No booze before 5pm. No off sales except for one place in the desert you need a government-issued license just to get in. No drinking in the street (not, as you say, that you can go out during the day for three months of the year.)

Big mistake FIFA. Huge.

But (even though you rarely see them here, and never in summer) every cloud has a silver lining and I think this might wake up enoug people to the levels of greed and corruption in FIFA.

I've just been sitting here shaking my head. I am really happy for the Qataris that they are on the map big time, but they are kidding themselves if they think their bid was superior to those of Australia and, particularly, the USA.

The Qatar bid was identified by FIFA as the highest risk on numerous levels by FIFA. Then they gave them it anyway.

A 'compact' World Cup. That's going to be fun.

[Mibbes Aye]

You should have asked your captors to loosen your blindfold a wee bit.

Nowt wrong with the hotels, you're bang on there. The roads are a joke. 12 years to fix it though, so plenty time for the Indian gangs on £300 for a 260 hour month to get it up to speed.

But the weather. There's no fixing that. 53C we had in July here. Can't go out, can't walk 200yds at 2pm without feeling queasy. Cooled fan zones. Super. Stand in an air-cooled pen for the day. Bonus.

You might not like the heat. And as you've mentioned in another post you might not like the cost of a pint.

Plenty people in the world live all the time in that heat. And plenty people in the world couldn't really care how much a pint costs.

Maybe you're just more important than all of them though?

I like the idea that a bit of the world that's never hosted the World Cup is going to have it within reasonable travelling distance.

[magpie1892]

You might not like the heat. And as you've mentioned in another post you might not like the cost of a pint.

Plenty people in the world live all the time in that heat. And plenty people in the world couldn't really care how much a pint costs.

Maybe you're just more important than all of them though?

I like the idea that a bit of the world that's never hosted the World Cup is going to have it within reasonable travelling distance.

The locals stay in (a lot of them leave the country for a couple of months - mostly to London). Everyone stays in, bar the poor sods building the roads, wrapped up like guys from some post-apocalyptic future with no ozone layer.

And football fans like to drink, the vast majority of them anyhow. Maybe FIFA is more important than the fans though? That's the message I'm getting loud and clear.

I'm pleased you like the idea. I can assure you you will not like being outside at 2pm here in July. But as long as you're happy that 2022 here would be a better show than the Ozzies (or Yanks, obviously) could have put on, that's the main thing.

A World Cup in a joke of a city that's too hot to go out in. You're easy pleased.

edit: nor did I mention that I had a problem with the price of a pint. Merely pointed out what it cost. I can afford it. Most cannot. But, as you point out, I am obviously more important than everyone, so I don't know why I mentioned it. Come to think of it, they should put the price up. How does £15/pint sound? That ought to do it.

[Irish_Steve]

If truth be told, Engerlund only really got one vote as one vote came from themselves!

[magpie1892]

If truth be told, Engerlund only really got one vote as one vote came from themselves!

How true. And when you consider that FIFA rated the English bid as the most technically accomlpished, then you do wonder what went 'wrong'? Whatever could it have been?

Even the most rabid England-hater could not square that bid with one vote. The Dutch/Belgian bid was done as a bit of a laugh and they doubled England's tally.

Likewise, Qatar's bid had the poorest - by a distance - FIFA rating from the inspectors. And they beat out the USA. Australia with it's incredible infrastructure, massive stadiums and benevolent climate got one vote.

'Fishy' doesn't come within a mile of covering it.

[Part/Time Supporter]

How true. And when you consider that FIFA rated the English bid as the most technically accomlpished, then you do wonder what went 'wrong'? Whatever could it have been?

Even the most rabid England-hater could not square that bid with one vote. The Dutch/Belgian bid was done as a bit of a laugh and they doubled England's tally.

Likewise, Qatar's bid had the poorest - by a distance - FIFA rating from the inspectors. And they beat out the USA. Australia with it's incredible infrastructure, massive stadiums and benevolent climate got one vote.

'Fishy' doesn't come within a mile of covering it.

Maybe Paris 2012 should ask the same of the IOC? Or maybe it had more to do with England 2018 making an arse of their technically sound bid?

There's more to bidding than just technical reports. If there wasn't, there wouldn't be a bidding process at all. FIFA would just send in their evaluation team, they would file their report and that would be it.

[Woody1985]

How true. And when you consider that FIFA rated the English bid as the most technically accomlpished, then you do wonder what went 'wrong'? Whatever could it have been?

Even the most rabid England-hater could not square that bid with one vote. The Dutch/Belgian bid was done as a bit of a laugh and they doubled England's tally.

Likewise, Qatar's bid had the poorest - by a distance - FIFA rating from the inspectors. And they beat out the USA. Australia with it's incredible infrastructure, massive stadiums and benevolent climate got one vote.

'Fishy' doesn't come within a mile of covering it.

Really interesting stuff. Not just what you've posted in this one but in other posts as well.

One thing though, I think that the dutch got those votes to tactically put England out at the first stage to stop them getting peoples second choice vote as it went on.

[Sir David Gray]

Absolute tosh.

I wouldn't discount the threat of extremist groups such as Al Qaeda. However places such as Qatar, Oman, Dubai, Doha etc are more than happy to welcome 'Western Infidels' as you put it. Some of the biggest investment in this part of the world comes from American Universities who are being invited to open campuses in the region. The Qataris have already stated that the alcohol and modesty laws will be relaxed for the duration of the tournament. The average joe on the street in this region has no more problem with the west than you or i. Too many people look at unrepresentative governments such as the one in Iran as being a true reflection of a wonderful part of the world.

I think you have completely misunderstood what I said.

I didn't mean the Qatari government wouldn't welcome "Western infidels" to their nation. I meant that the Al Qaeda terrorists would not welcome the fact that Westerners will be descending onto a Muslim country and imposing all of their "immoral standards" onto the local population for an entire month.

However, I'm afraid I have to correct you on the point you make about Dubai. It was less than two years ago that an Israeli tennis player was initially banned from entering Dubai to play in a tournament there that she had qualified for. This was because the UAE has no diplomatic relations with Israel and does not allow any of their citizens into the country.

The only reason that she was eventually allowed in, to play in the tournament, is because the governing body, the WTA, got involved and threatened the Dubai government by telling them that if the ban wasn't revoked, they would be forbidden from hosting any of their tournaments in the future.

Since Qatar has no diplomatic relations with Israel either, it'll be interesting to see what would happen in the unlikely event that Israel qualifies for the 2022 World Cup.

[magpie1892]

Really interesting stuff. Not just what you've posted in this one but in other posts as well.

One thing though, I think that the dutch got those votes to tactically put England out at the first stage to stop them getting peoples second choice vote as it went on.

Why thank you.

http://www.scotsman.com/world-cup-2018/Analysis-One-39offie39-and-scorching.6648513.jp

Not my real name, as even comment as mild as this could get me kicked out. That tells a story, too.

You may well be right about the Dutch votes. One thing is for sure in the final analysis though: England were never going to get it despite the strength of the bid and this raises more questions than answers.

[magpie1892]

Maybe Paris 2012 should ask the same of the IOC? Or maybe it had more to do with England 2018 making an arse of their technically sound bid?

There's more to bidding than just technical reports. If there wasn't, there wouldn't be a bidding process at all. FIFA would just send in their evaluation team, they would file their report and that would be it.

Maybe they should. But Paris lost by a single vote, not humiliated like England (which obviously cheers you) and there at least has been an explanation of sorts for the 2012 voting decision.

I say again, England's bid garnered one other vote. It stinks. You know it, I know it. Enjoy the moment by all means but FIFA enthusiastically added to the stench with its 2022 decision as well. Australia with ONE vote? Superb infrastructure, climate, stadiums, geography, culture, history? Behave.

[magpie1892]

It'll be interesting to see what would happen in the unlikely event that Israel qualifies for the 2022 World Cup.

The Qatar bid merrily trumpeted that should Israel qualify (an Asian country, playing in the very tough European qualifying groups - why ever could that be) then they will be allowed to participate (big of them, don't you think?). That this was even a bid criterion is just another in the long list of reasons why Qatar should not have got within a mile of 2022.

It's laughable. 10 minutes in Doha's July sun will confirm this.

[Barney McGrew]

I say again, England's bid garnered one other vote. It stinks. You know it, I know it

And I'll say again - maybe it's because the voting delegates thought the other bids were better?

[lapsedhibee]

Maybe they should. But Paris lost by a single vote, not humiliated like England (which obviously cheers you) and there at least has been an explanation of sorts for the 2012 voting decision.

I say again, England's bid garnered one other vote. It stinks. You know it, I know it. Enjoy the moment by all means but FIFA enthusiastically added to the stench with its 2022 decision as well. Australia with ONE vote? Superb infrastructure, climate, stadiums, geography, culture, history? Behave.

To keep banging on about the quality of existing infrastructure in countries whose bids failed seems a bit perverse, when legacy was a stated criterion for success in the bidding process.

There's a perfectly simple explanation for Russia's victory and England's failure. Russia included in their presentation team a two-footed fitballer who could speak the international language English, and England didn't. :agree:

[magpie1892]

And I'll say again - maybe it's because the voting delegates thought the other bids were better?

Better for them, yes. Not great for their credibility, though, as is being shown worldwide.

[magpie1892]

To keep banging on about the quality of existing infrastructure in countries whose bids failed seems a bit perverse, when legacy was a stated criterion for success in the bidding process.

It was. One of many.


There's a perfectly simple explanation for Russia's victory and England's failure. Russia included in their presentation team a two-footed fitballer who could speak the international language English, and England didn't. :agree:

Arf!

[Danderhall Hibs]

And I'll say again - maybe it's because the voting delegates thought the other bids were better?

I think that's quite naive.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Maybe they should. But Paris lost by a single vote, not humiliated like England (which obviously cheers you) and there at least has been an explanation of sorts for the 2012 voting decision.

I say again, England's bid garnered one other vote. It stinks. You know it, I know it. Enjoy the moment by all means but FIFA enthusiastically added to the stench with its 2022 decision as well. Australia with ONE vote? Superb infrastructure, climate, stadiums, geography, culture, history? Behave.

And in completely the wrong time zone for televised matches for the main football markets.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!! !! :thumbsup::partyhibb:partyhibb:partyhibb

[Betty Boop]

yyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!! !! :thumbsup::partyhibb:partyhibb:partyhibb

Congratulations Sergey ! :thumbsup:

[Barney McGrew]

I think that's quite naive.

Good for you.

[Danderhall Hibs]

And in completely the wrong time zone for televised matches for the main football markets.

Is this a recent consideration? South Korea had a time difference but they got it in 2002.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Crap decisions IMO.

Getting a Visa to get into Russia is a nightmare, just ask Chelsea and Man Utd fans or ask me because i've had experience of it.

There will be NO VISA for the fans at the World Cup. Confirmed.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Shocking decision, both Russia and even more so Qatar don't have football as there national sport. .

Untrue. Football is the national sport in Russia.

[magpie1892]

And in completely the wrong time zone for televised matches for the main football markets.

This has already been noted. See p9.

Not in the wrong timezone for SE Asia though, is it?

Or South America. Or the western seaboard of North America, an expanding market in so many ways.

So you must mean Europe, then. This being so, I'm surprised at what appears to be your favouring the little guy for economies of TV scheduling? Quite touching in its hypocrisy really, but your overall point isn't worthy of serious consideration.

[magpie1892]

I think that's quite naive.

Very much so. This is also quite touching. Or it would be, if the poster wasn't just trying to be contrary.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Congratulations Sergey ! :thumbsup:

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[magpie1892]

Thank you! :thumbsup:

Congratulations also.

I don't agree (can you tell?) with the way in which FIFA arrived at either decision but I am sure it will be a great tournament in Russia and I will be there 99% for sure with work.

Good luck.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Is this a recent consideration? South Korea had a time difference but they got it in 2002.

That was the start of the rotation policy - it was Asia's turn. Japan and Korea were the two main bidders so the time zone issue was not a factor. Whereas the 2022 offer was open between North America (USA) and Asia (Japan, Qatar, Korea and Australia).

http://www.le.ac.uk/sociology/css/resources/factsheets/fs12.html

[H18sry]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/3512/20182022-world-cup-host/2010/12/03/2243385/english-comment-the-five-key-reasons-behind-englands

[Liberal Hibby]

http://www.goal.com/en/news/3512/20182022-world-cup-host/2010/12/03/2243385/english-comment-the-five-key-reasons-behind-englands

So outside they ignored the sixth (and main) reason - corruption and bribery.

I'm not usually a fan of Ken Livingstone - but his comments on question time last night about how the IOC had cleaned up its act, which made it a fair contest between Paris and London for the Olympics was interesting.

It is crystal clear that choosing a gangster state for 2018 and a medieval theocratic city state for 2022 could only happen if FIFA and its officials were so blinded by cash that all reason went out of the window. Either that or they are clinically insane.

[lapsedhibee]

It is crystal clear that choosing a gangster state for 2018 and a medieval theocratic city state for 2022 could only happen if FIFA and its officials were so blinded by cash that all reason went out of the window. Either that or they are clinically insane.

Why bring religion into fitba? Is there any reason to think that the religious nature of a state would prevent it being able to host a sports tournament? :confused:

[Liberal Hibby]

Why bring religion into fitba? Is there any reason to think that the religious nature of a state would prevent it being able to host a sports tournament? :confused:

It might cause some doubts surely if they have to admit they need to change their (sharia) laws to allow Jews and gays into their country?

[magpie1892]

It might cause some doubts surely if they have to admit they need to change their (sharia) laws to allow Jews and gays into their country?

It's relevant on numerous levels, most of which have been discussed already. But here goes (again)

It is illegal for Israelis to enter Qatar and it is also illegal to enter Qatar if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport. So that now precludes anyone from entering Qatar (players, fans, refs, backroom staff) who has said stamp, even if it's from 9.9 years ago.

Yet the Qatar bid made a point of saying that if Israel qualify, they will be allowed to compete (how magnanimous!) and the fact that this even had to be mentioned gives you an idea of the medieval nature of islam and its attendant hatred of the jew.

What if a fan of, say, France, who followed his team to Israel or holidayed there turns up at the airport to watch the blues in 2022 and they don't let him in? He's not Israeli so he's not exempt from the passport stamp rule. That one even needs to seek clarification on this is particularly disgusting.

Then there is homosexuality. Illegal - and that won't be lifted for the tournament! I'm not gay but homophobia to the extent that it is actually legislated against is quite repellent.

Alcohol, dress, behaviour... The list goes on yet doesn't even address the potentially fatal summer heat here, and all the problems that will bring.

There is so much wrong with Qatar's successful bid it's hard to know where to start.

[s.a.m]

While I agree that the bidding process is riddled with inherent problems (and possibly corruption), England seem to have engaged as wholeheartedly in the pursuit of votes, through deal-making and 'networking', as anyone else has (though I'm not suggesting they've been involved in any financial shennanigans.)

I heard someone on Radio 5 last night talking about the bid team's grievance with Jack Warner, with whom they had met on twenty (I think) occasions in order to secure his vote. And to whom they had promised (and given) a FIFA presidency vote for Sepp Blatter instead of their preferred candidate, Lennart Johannssen, in exchange for his support. (Incidentally you may remember England performing the same trick on Germany, with whom a mutual deal had been struck: Germany's non-opposition to England's Euro 1996 bid, and their vote. In return, England's non-opposition to, and vote for, Germany’s bid for the World Cup. They forgot about the 2nd bit when they achieved the first.)

There was someone on T.V this morning complaing that delegates lied - having promised their votes before the charm offensive in Zurich. But is that not what the’Dream Team’ were attempting to do? Getting people who had promised votes elsewhere to change their minds?

While I would have been happy to see England get the World Cup, their bid hardly smacks of a commitment to openness and integrity.

[magpie1892]

This is the best I've seen so far:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1335212/Martin-Samuel-FIFA-rotten-core-England-better-it.html

A fantastic piece of writing.

[lapsedhibee]

Why bring religion into fitba? Is there any reason to think that the religious nature of a state would prevent it being able to host a sports tournament? :confused:


It might cause some doubts surely if they have to admit they need to change their (sharia) laws to allow Jews and gays into their country?

Au contraire, if they are prepared to change the law to accommodate a sports tournament, it removes doubt and merely lends weight to the proposition that they are able to host a sports tournament, irrespective of religion.

[Woody1985]

To keep banging on about the quality of existing infrastructure in countries whose bids failed seems a bit perverse, when legacy was a stated criterion for success in the bidding process.

There's a perfectly simple explanation for Russia's victory and England's failure. Russia included in their presentation team a two-footed fitballer who could speak the international language English, and England didn't. :agree:

So why did Spain get so many votes?

Legacy = FIFA exec power trip.

[Liberal Hibby]

Au contraire, if they are prepared to change the law to accommodate a sports tournament, it removes doubt and merely lends weight to the proposition that they are able to host a sports tournament, irrespective of religion.

I think Magpie above makes my point so much more effectively.

[NAE NOOKIE]

A guy who I sometimes drink with doon the pub has lived in South Africa and still has relatives there went out to SA for the world cup.

Now this guy is an auld racist, not in a National Front way, but in that sort of distain for the abilities of anybody who aint white to do anything right sort of way. Well he came back from SA raving about how well everything was organised and what a good time he had.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the Qataris will make a good job of the whole thing. I just think that there are a number of factors involved with that country which will not make it a great experience for Europeans and supporters from other regions.

As for anybody on here taking the moral high ground coz the availability of a pint might be a factor, well for better or worse for a good number of fans a pint before the match is part of the football experience, which is what makes 12pm Sunday KOs at Easter Road such a pain in the bottom.

[Antifa Hibs]

Fair play to Russia, can't really argue with that one.

Qatar though, what a *** farce. Must've cost them a few quid in bungs for that!

1) Israel's citizens are banned from Qatar.
2) Kissing in public is banned.
3) Dresscode, 42 degrees c on average in June, shoulders and knee's covered, no vests, bikini's and shorts.
4) Bevvy, a public offence to drink in the street.
5) Homosexuality is banned.

No doubt the transport links and stadiums will be second to none, they won't think twice about throwing billions at it. From a fans perspective, well those of the West who make up the majority of travelling world cup fans (Yanks, Brits, Germans, Dutch, French etc etc), it stinks! Well unless this is the Middle-East trying to bring down its barriers with the West? We'll see...

[lapsedhibee]

I think Magpie above makes my point so much more effectively.

Magpie's main point seems to be that Qatar is very different from England. He doesn't like the laws there. What has that got to do with their ability to host a fitba tournament?

Personally I find the Daily Mail just as offensive as a bit of mild sexism and homophobia (which in any case it appears Qatar is going to suspend for the duration).

[lapsedhibee]

4) Bevvy, a public offence to drink in the street.


Isn't this true of certain parts of Scotland? :dunno:

[Liberal Hibby]

This is the best I've seen so far:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1335212/Martin-Samuel-FIFA-rotten-core-England-better-it.html

A fantastic piece of writing.

Indeed - and who would have thunk it would be the Mail that would have said it?

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Many of you who will come over to Russia in 2018 will know, what it meant to me, how expensive to come over for such a distance. Even with the fact that ground travelling in Russia in 2018 will be free and prices for all things are cheaper in Russia then in UK.

[magpie1892]

Au contraire, if they are prepared to change the law to accommodate a sports tournament, it removes doubt and merely lends weight to the proposition that they are able to host a sports tournament, irrespective of religion.

This is a barmy argument, and I very much doubt you're being serious but no laws will be changed. Exemptions will be applied. Take a can of beer into the street the day after the final, if you can stand the heat, and see what happens.

Kiss a man in the street and see what happens.

Best advice I can give you, impractical though it is, is to come here and learn more about your subject so that you don't have to argue from a position of total ignorance, whimsical though it may be.

There's loads of room in my flat - it's enormous and free. Give me a shout. Weather is perfect right now. 28C and a nice wee breeze.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

But I welcome everyone of you in my Hometown Rostov-on-Don, where will be a few games of the tournament. I will show to you all our beauty!

[Antifa Hibs]

Isn't this true of certain parts of Scotland? :dunno:

True. Don't think you'd recieve lashings for it though. There are also hundreds of off licenses, pubs, clubs where you can get a bevvy, compared to a few 5* hotels over there, you also need a permit to buy alcohol I believe...

[magpie1892]

Indeed - and who would have thunk it would be the Mail that would have said it?

Trust me on this one, you can usually devolve the sports department from the editorial line at any newspaper.

To wit, I worked for sport at The Guardian for nine months, even though I find it a preposterous newspaper. (e.g. about any Polly Toynbee article from the last decade).

[bighairyfaeleith]

But I welcome everyone of you in my Hometown Rostov-on-Don, where will be a few games of the tournament. I will show to you all our beauty!

Sweet what is her name?:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

This is a barmy argument, and I very much doubt you're being serious but no laws will be changed. Exemptions will be applied. Take a can of beer into the street the day after the final, if you can stand the heat, and see what happens.

Kiss a man in the street and see what happens.
Am I missing something here, or is the solution to these two difficulties not to (a) drink, and (b) kiss men, indoors?


Best advice I can give you, impractical though it is, is to come here and learn more about your subject so that you don't have to argue from a position of total ignorance, whimsical though it may be.

There's loads of room in my flat - it's enormous and free. Give me a shout. Weather is perfect right now. 28C and a nice wee breeze.
Kind offer, thanks. 28C is too hot for me personally and I definitely won't be going to the World Cup in 2022 - but I wouldn't have gone to Australia or the USA either.

Aside from what looks like a fairly sleazy FIFA process of accepting bids, do you think Qatar will make a success of putting on the tournament? (Sorry if you've already given an opinion on this, can't at the moment see it.)

[magpie1892]

Magpie's main point seems to be that Qatar is very different from England. He doesn't like the laws there. What has that got to do with their ability to host a fitba tournament?

Personally I find the Daily Mail just as offensive as a bit of mild sexism and homophobia (which in any case it appears Qatar is going to suspend for the duration).

Did I compare Qatar to England? No. (added to which, I have a flat in Polwarth - my home)
Do I like the laws here? No - but I am a guest and I behave accordingly. Would that I were a visitor, gay or jewish and if I could get into the country would have to suppress everything about my identity. Shameful.

And you said the laws were going to be changed. Now you say suspended. Which is it? Do you know?

Can you clarify about the passport stamp problem? Do you know the answer?

I know this is going to sound rude but given I type this from Doha I can honestly say that in this thread you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

My offer of accommodation still stands provided you don't smell or try to touch me inappropriately.

[magpie1892]

do you think Qatar will make a success of putting on the tournament? (Sorry if you've already given an opinion on this, can't at the moment see it.)

That's a hell of a complex question.

I think the stadiums will be here, and will be magnificent.

I think the infrastructure will not be able to cope, regardless of how many new roads and metros they build, because the place is tiny.

I think the experience for the fans will be dire.

So, overall, I think it will be a partial logistical success, but a total failure on every other level, including this silly idea of legacy. I despair for the fans - how can it be considered a success to have nothing to do, and have 53C heat to do it in? It's brutal in summer here, my friend. Brutal.

[magpie1892]

Personally I find the Daily Mail just as offensive as a bit of mild sexism and homophobia (which in any case it appears Qatar is going to suspend for the duration).


p.s. 'suspend' homophobia... Jesus wept.

Stop digging, mate. Seriously.

[lapsedhibee]

And you said the laws were going to be changed. Now you say suspended. Which is it? Do you know?

Can you clarify about the passport stamp problem? Do you know the answer?


Course I don't know. I doubt if the Qatari authorities know themselves, and the precise plans will change many times between now and 2022. (A lot of things may change in the 12 years - though your Daily Mail journo seems confident that a global recession will persist right through. Uncanny. Why is he bothering with a day job when he has that degree of financial nous?)

I would suggest that either laws will be changed temporarily, or blind eyes will be turned to foreigners, or some other approach will be adopted so that visitors visit without being burdened by too much inconvenience to their lifestyle. What happens to locals before, during and after the World Cup will be of little interest to the visiting fitba spectators unless they have particular other non-fitballing interests, say in religion, gay rights, etc.

Wasn't there a big sporting tournament in China not so long ago? :dunno:

[hibbybrian]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

[Mibbes Aye]

...gives you an idea of the medieval nature of islam and its attendant hatred of the jew.



I think the credibility of any of your points is diminished by such a facile statement.

[bawheid]

Might be missing something here regarding "legacy".

What good is a legacy of about a dozen massive all-seater stadia and infrastructure to deal with loads of football fans (for a one off event) to a city with a population of just over a million?

Did I read it correctly that a town with two (heterosexual) men and a dog is getting a 45,000 capacity stadium? Madness.

[Part/Time Supporter]

At risk of coming over all political, I think we have a cheek moaning about foreigners being "corrupt" in the light of this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11904007


Mr Chaytor was charged with claiming £12,925 for a year from September 2005 for renting a property in London which he owned, of dishonestly claiming £1,950 for IT services in May 2006 and of dishonestly claiming £5,425 for renting a property in Bury from his mother between September 2007 and January 2008.

The charge for IT services said that he supplied two invoices from a man named Paul France for his professional services "when in fact the services had not been provided or charged for".

[Sergio sledge]

Might be missing something here regarding "legacy".

What good is a legacy of about a dozen massive all-seater stadia and infrastructure to deal with loads of football fans (for a one off event) to a city with a population of just over a million?

I think that part of their plan is to dismantle the stadiums anddonate them to various countrites in the area so that the "legacy" is a benefit to the whole area and not just to Qatar. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9228123.stm

[Part/Time Supporter]

I think that part of their plan is to dismantle the stadiums and donate them to various countries in the area so that the "legacy" is a benefit to the whole area and not just to Qatar. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9228123.stm

At danger of linking Hertz with the World Cup, but wasn't there a mad proposal by the Pieman to move most of the PBS to up Suitra Hill? This was when they were looking to sell the ground to Cala. They would have kept the stands up there while they waited to find a suitable site in Edinburgh to use them. Probably those mind-expanding fumes from that brewery to blame.

Edit: I think this was it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/3490981.stm

[magpie1892]

I think the credibility of any of your points is diminished by such a facile statement.

Sure, I can accept that.

[hibbybrian]

Sure, I can accept that.

Time for a visit to the Library

6pm sharp :greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

Brutal is the word! I'm from Bahrain originally and still go back a couple of times a year.People can't conceive how oppressive the heat is June July August Sepember. If it's 45 during the day its often 41 or 42 at midnight. The humidity is almost 100% at times. These are shade temperatures Pitch temperatures would be unbearable.. In fact it couldnt be done in daylight hours. Someone said they were going to air condition the stadiums... I suppose it's possible.

That surely can't be very eco-friendly though can it?:confused:

[ronaldo7]

FI FA fo fum I smell the blood of an Englishman.:greengrin

[Andy74]

I'm not sure what the surprise is.

At the end of the day it's a bidding process. The England bid team bought into it and did the full shmoosing thing to influence people. They only got 2 votes.

FIFA have stated for a while that their thoughts are with expanding the reach of their tournaments to new places and crucially new markets.

England is saturated as it is with football and the whole EPL/Sky thing all over the world. They already have all the facilities so its ready made.

The fact is though that now e have another two countries where facilties will be brought up to world standard and where new markets can be reached.

I don't think England are really up to speed with what FIFA's priorities are.

In any process like this there is always a wee bit of corruption I am sure but England have also tried to influence people and ultimately lost the argument.

[ancienthibby]

Untrue. Football is the national sport in Russia.

Ice hockey rules in Russia - where would the NHL be without Russian ice-hockey players??

[ancienthibby]

p.s. 'suspend' homophobia... Jesus wept.

Stop digging, mate. Seriously.

Try posting without blasphemy, please and thanks.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Ice hockey rules in Russia - where would the NHL be without Russian ice-hockey players??

It would miss one or two star players (ie Ovechkin), but it would be pretty much the same league (majority Canadian players). It would be like there being no Spanish players in the Premier League.

[ancienthibby]

It would miss one or two star players (ie Ovechkin), but it would be pretty much the same league (majority Canadian players). It would be like there being no Spanish players in the Premier League.

The majority may be Canadian players, but only just!!

The current roster of my own team - the Maple Leafs - shows that only 14 out of 26 are native Canucks!

[Sergio sledge]

I know. It isn't. In Bahrain we have an ice skating rink. In Dubai they have an indoor ski slope. I've been there having a beer in the restaurant where you can watch them skiing and it's 45 degrees outside. Apparently skiing there is colder than the Alps etc because of the intensity of the chilling units inside the area. Imagine the energy required to keep these babies going?

Depends what energy source you use for all the electricity. I wonder where the 45degree heat comes from? :wink:

[Part/Time Supporter]

The majority may be Canadian players, but only just!!

The current roster of my own team - the Maple Leafs - shows that only 14 out of 26 are native Canucks!

Info is a little out of date, but it won't be massively different now:

http://www.thephysicsofhockey.com/documents/country.pdf

Canadian 53.6%
American 18.5%
Nobody else > 7%

There's more Czechs and Swedes than Russians, and nearly as many Finns and Slovaks.

[Woody1985]

I'm not sure what the surprise is.

At the end of the day it's a bidding process. The England bid team bought into it and did the full shmoosing thing to influence people. They only got 2 votes.

FIFA have stated for a while that their thoughts are with expanding the reach of their tournaments to new places and crucially new markets.

England is saturated as it is with football and the whole EPL/Sky thing all over the world. They already have all the facilities so its ready made.

The fact is though that now e have another two countries where facilties will be brought up to world standard and where new markets can be reached.

I don't think England are really up to speed with what FIFA's priorities are.

In any process like this there is always a wee bit of corruption I am sure but England have also tried to influence people and ultimately lost the argument.

Reaching new markets is fine but where will it stop? Will we never see another wc in an untapped market so fifa can generate more money?

Do fifa genuinely want to bring the enjoyment of football to fans across the world?

If they want to build legacies the should but do it on a rotation. Developed nation, untapped nation, developed nation.

[hibsbollah]

Theres never been a world cup in Eastern Europe or Russia, and theres never been one in the Middle East. The decision makes perfect sense to me.

Most media 'commentary' in this country on the subject has been so full of self-righteousness and prejudice its just pathetic. I wonder if the Spanish or Portuguese press and pundits have been equally scandalised?:confused: It was them who were 'beaten' by Russia, after all.

[ancienthibby]

Theres never been a world cup in Eastern Europe or Russia, and theres never been one in the Middle East. The decision makes perfect sense to me.

Most media 'commentary' in this country on the subject has been so full of self-righteousness and prejudice its just pathetic. I wonder if the Spanish or Portuguese press and pundits have been equally scandalised?:confused: It was them who were 'beaten' by Russia, after all.
:top marks:top marks:top marks

[discman]

Theres never been a world cup in Eastern Europe or Russia, and theres never been one in the Middle East. The decision makes perfect sense to me.

Most media 'commentary' in this country on the subject has been so full of self-righteousness and prejudice its just pathetic. I wonder if the Spanish or Portuguese press and pundits have been equally scandalised?:confused: It was them who were 'beaten' by Russia, after all.


So having a world cup in a country regarded as virtually "a mafia state" makes sense?

And Qatar? a country 100 miles by 50 miles a population of 600,000 citizens,who have recently signed a defense co-operation with Iran and in march their prime minister gave his support to Irans right to nuclear power, yeah that makes perfect sense :greengrin

[hibiedude]

All this rubbish about corruption because England weren’t the preferred bidder is turning into a joke-simple fact is it had more to do with English arrogance in my opinion.

Listening to the news today just confirms that Fifa were right to hand it to Russia because even now the head of the bidding panel is saying there is no point in England putting forward any future bids until Fifa change there voting rules. :bitchy:

They still don’t get even after yesterdays humiliation when Fifa gave them the two fingers

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

All this rubbish about corruption because England weren’t the preferred bidder is turning into a joke-simple fact is it had more to do with English arrogance in my opinion.

Listening to the news today just confirms that Fifa were right to hand it to Russia because even now the head of the bidding panel is saying there is no point in England putting forward any future bids until Fifa change there voting rules. :bitchy:

They still don’t get even after yesterdays humiliation when Fifa gave them the two fingers


Absolutely spot on, have any of the other countries who lost out doing this kind of enquiry which is no doubt going to cost millions, absolute arrogance and sour grapes from THE most arrogant country in the world, why don't they just draw a line under and move on :confused:

God I hate them! :grr:

[Joe's ice cream]

Absolutely spot on, have any of the other countries who lost out doing this kind of enquiry which is no doubt going to cost millions, absolute arrogance and sour grapes from THE most arrogant country in the world, why don't they just draw a line under and move on :confused:

God I hate them! :grr:

Don't think it's arrogant to ask for a bit of clarity, when your told you've got a good bid, your entitled to ask why it went so badly wrong
I believe Australia are asking the same types of questions, and if you read the quotes from the Brlgium/Holand delegates quotes they are a lot more direct than anything the English have said.
I think your position on this follows an all to often anti English theme

[fatbloke]

All of these countries who don't vote for England in the World Cup allocations or the UK in Eurovision etc are only too happy to take our cash when the require aid/assistance/bailing out etc etc etc. I am not xenophobic but its time we were a bit more inward looking. Is it time we looked after our own interests and said no more often to more requests from outwith these shores. Lets see Qatar bail out Ireland.

[hibee_nation]

It took a while to read all that my main impression from it all is what a gutless journalist Mr Beaumont is. So full of himself on here and praising other journalists who had the balls to write what he was so frightened of incase he upset his paymaster. Write a story about the injusticies of the country you are living in and stop freeloading off them FFS. You are as useless a journalist as your team is at football. :yawn:

[hibsbollah]

So having a world cup in a country regarded as virtually "a mafia state" makes sense?

And Qatar? a country 100 miles by 50 miles a population of 600,000 citizens,who have recently signed a defense co-operation with Iran and in march their prime minister gave his support to Irans right to nuclear power, yeah that makes perfect sense :greengrin

Neither country has done anything politically to disqualify it from hosting a world cup. Certainly no worse than Argentina, who in 1978 had one of the most bloodthirsty juntas imaginable.

Its an obvious progression; first world cup in asia in 2002, first world cup in africa in 2010. All it needs is an Australia/Antartica joint bid for 2022 and its finally the global game:agree:

[hibee_nation]

Neither country has done anything politically to disqualify it from hosting a world cup. Certainly no worse than Argentina, who in 1978 had one of the most bloodthirsty juntas imaginable.

Its an obvious progression; first world cup in asia in 2002, first world cup in africa in 2010. All it needs is an Australia/Antartica joint bid for 2022 and its finally the global game:agree:

Never gonna happen. Ever tried drinking in the streets, it turns to slush puppy in 5 seconds flat. And as for gays don't even go there, first shirt lifted would be the last. :grr:

[hibbybrian]

It took a while to read all that my main impression from it all is what a gutless journalist Mr Beaumont is. So full of himself on here and praising other journalists who had the balls to write what he was so frightened of incase he upset his paymaster. Write a story about the injusticies of the country you are living in and stop freeloading off them FFS. You are as useless a journalist as your team is at football. :yawn:

I would bring to your attention that Mr Beaulnt's article was edited and cropped by the Scotsman before publication :wink:

and "his teams at football" are Hibernian, Newcastle and England, hopefully in that order :wink: :wink:

[hibee_nation]

I would bring to your attention that Mr Beaulnt's article was edited and cropped by the Scotsman before publication :wink:

and "his teams at football" are Hibernian, Newcastle and England, hopefully in that order :wink: :wink:

Percisely, someone who is prepared to have his story edited and cropped for filthy lucre then deriding others for doing the same thing. Fifa is corrupt no doubt but weak journalists are morally corrupt.

[magpie1892]

Try posting without blasphemy, please and thanks.

Try posting without making a James Blunt of yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_wept

Please and thanks.

[magpie1892]

Percisely, someone who is prepared to have his story edited and cropped for filthy lucre then deriding others for doing the same thing. Fifa is corrupt no doubt but weak journalists are morally corrupt.

I'm sure you make sense to yourself, but I haven't a clue what you're on about here.

Ignorant and semi-literate is no way to go through life.

I can help you.

[magpie1892]

I would bring to your attention that Mr Beaulnt's article was edited and cropped by the Scotsman before publication :wink:

and "his teams at football" are Hibernian, Newcastle and England, hopefully in that order :wink: :wink:

Good to see you, as always, but you're wasting your time with this fandango!

Thanks anyway...

See you Fri.

JH (not JB ;-))

[hibee_nation]

I'm sure you make sense to yourself, but I haven't a clue what you're on about here.

Ignorant and semi-literate is no way to go through life.

I can help you.

Let me help you out then. I think you are a greetin faced puss and a bad loser. Mon the Russians and Mullahs. They think it's all over, it is now. :boo hoo:

[BroxburnHibee]

Try posting without blasphemy, please and thanks.

If things like that really upset you then perhaps this isn't the best place to be :dunno:

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I think your position on this follows an all to often anti English theme

100% correct and that goes for anything to do with sport with england in it

:no way:

[discman]

Neither country has done anything politically to disqualify it from hosting a world cup. Certainly no worse than Argentina, who in 1978 had one of the most bloodthirsty juntas imaginable.

Its an obvious progression; first world cup in asia in 2002, first world cup in africa in 2010. All it needs is an Australia/Antartica joint bid for 2022 and its finally the global game:agree:


Ok not sure exactly what that means,its almost a catchall phrase to cover all eventualities,given your other posts I'm guessing you would of read the wikileaks describing the Spanish judges impression of Russia,that doesnt concern you alittle bit?

With regard to Qatar, why would we give a world cup to a country that:


"Freedom in the World 2006 lists Qatar as "Not Free",and on a 1-7 scale (1 being the most "free") rates the country a 6 for political rights and a 5 for civil liberties.
What is more,as of 2008,the Democracy Index descibes Qatar as an authoritarian regime with 2.92 points,just slightly more than Iran"

So maybe they havnt done anything politically that you think should preclude them, but do you really think there werent better options? :greengrin

[magpie1892]

Let me help you out then. I think you are a greetin faced puss and a bad loser. Mon the Russians and Mullahs. They think it's all over, it is now. :boo hoo:

Thanks for clearing that up.

You've made a really positive contribution to this thread, you should be justifiably proud!

[SaudiHibby]

Absolute tosh.

I wouldn't discount the threat of extremist groups such as Al Qaeda. However places such as Qatar, Oman, Dubai, Doha etc are more than happy to welcome 'Western Infidels' as you put it. Some of the biggest investment in this part of the world comes from American Universities who are being invited to open campuses in the region. The Qataris have already stated that the alcohol and modesty laws will be relaxed for the duration of the tournament. The average joe on the street in this region has no more problem with the west than you or i. Too many people look at unrepresentative governments such as the one in Iran as being a true reflection of a wonderful part of the world.

That's a wee bitty naive :wink:

The Shia v Sunni match will be the longest WC match ever played and could go right through the tournament to the Final. This match will surpass even a Brazil v Scotland Final in terms of passion, violence and skill. Shia FC will have representatives from Yemen, Iran, Syria and Iraq (their rules will allow this as they will get special dispensation from FIFA) and Sunni FC will feature world class players from Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE and Oman. The eventual score will likely be the highest score ever in a football match (i.e. 4732 to 3638 ) and Shia FC will win hands down. :rolleyes:

[ancienthibby]

If things like that really upset you then perhaps this isn't the best place to be :dunno:

No danger!:greengrin

[marinello59]

No more personal abuse please, the posts will just be deleted.

[hibsbollah]

Ok not sure exactly what that means,its almost a catchall phrase to cover all eventualities,given your other posts I'm guessing you would of read the wikileaks describing the Spanish judges impression of Russia,that doesnt concern you alittle bit?

With regard to Qatar, why would we give a world cup to a country that:


"Freedom in the World 2006 lists Qatar as "Not Free",and on a 1-7 scale (1 being the most "free") rates the country a 6 for political rights and a 5 for civil liberties.
What is more,as of 2008,the Democracy Index descibes Qatar as an authoritarian regime with 2.92 points,just slightly more than Iran"

So maybe they havnt done anything politically that you think should preclude them, but do you really think there werent better options? :greengrin

But we've already established that having high standards of political freedom isnt a prerequisute for being awarded the World Cup, never has been. Its not FIFAs job to make moral judgements, the same as it wasnt for the IOC committee who awarded the Olympics to Beijing. There is also a plausible argument that hosting a major sporting event increases the chance of making that country more 'free', not less.

*There is always the problem that freedom is quite an arbitrary concept, and how you judge how free a country is is usually based on your own prejudices and political leanings*

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Ice hockey rules in Russia - where would the NHL be without Russian ice-hockey players??

No, hockey rules only in Siberia because of the weather. I my big city we even dont have a hockey team but has 2 professional footy teams.

[discman]

But we've already established that having high standards of political freedom isnt a prerequisute for being awarded the World Cup, never has been. Its not FIFAs job to make moral judgements, the same as it wasnt for the IOC committee who awarded the Olympics to Beijing. There is also a plausible argument that hosting a major sporting event increases the chance of making that country more 'free', not less.

*There is always the problem that freedom is quite an arbitrary concept, and how you judge how free a country is is usually based on your own prejudices and political leanings*


1) It should be, didnt we and other countries boycott the Moscow olympics,werent South Africa frozen out of all major international competions? or were they still allowed in the olympics???


2) Not according to the UNs Declaration of Human Rights:greengrin

Worth checking out the CIAs site on countries of the world, apparently Qatar do a nice line in human traffiking!

If havent already done so check out Jack Warner on Wikipedia hes so blatantly corrupt its staggering :cool2:

[Baader]

The Qatar decision absolutely stinks. An utter, utter joke.

[basehibby]

I have sympathy for the English in this case. They are quite clearly very well equipped to host a WC, had the best commercial bid, the equal best technical bid and yet come absolutely nowhere?!?

FIFA have displayed a tendency to expand the locations of WCs to new countries and certainly Russia and Quatar fit the bill in that respect.

BUT, having said that, you can't exactly blame the English (and others) for asking questions. Given the quality of the English proposal and the known proclivity for bribery and corruption in modern day Russia, along with the laughable decision to give the 2022 WC to tiny Quatar (who just happen to be stinking rich as well), you can't really blame them for being exasperated at FIFA's mysterious modus operandi.

PS - given that a tiny country like Quatar with barely enough population to fill the requisite stadia has been awarded WC 2022, I won't hear a word against the idea of Scotland hosting/co-hosting a tournament in future - if Quatar can do it then never mind Scotland - why don't Lichenstein have a go???

[Betty Boop]

1) It should be, didnt we and other countries boycott the Moscow olympics,werent South Africa frozen out of all major international competions? or were they still allowed in the olympics???


2) Not according to the UNs Declaration of Human Rights:greengrin

Worth checking out the CIAs site on countries of the world, apparently Qatar do a nice line in human traffiking!

If havent already done so check out Jack Warner on Wikipedia hes so blatantly corrupt its staggering :cool2:

Yet the 'Three Lions' were apparently relying on his promise of a vote. :greengrin

[discman]

Yet the 'Three Lions' were apparently relying on his promise of a vote. :greengrin


Yeah I dont get it either,it appears that corruption is endemic within FIFA,If I know how corrupt Jack Warner is they must know, anyway long live wikileaks maybe something will appear there,that would make my day! :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

1) It should be, didnt we and other countries boycott the Moscow olympics,werent South Africa frozen out of all major international competions? or were they still allowed in the olympics???


2) Not according to the UNs Declaration of Human Rights:greengrin

Worth checking out the CIAs site on countries of the world, apparently Qatar do a nice line in human traffiking!

If havent already done so check out Jack Warner on Wikipedia hes so blatantly corrupt its staggering :cool2:

Yes, South Africa were excluded for years and years because of apartheid. A bit of a special case to be honest.

In a perfect world I agree with you, but again, how do you judge? The UN Declaration of Human Rights says a lot of things that are open to definition...Western Liberal democracies have been regulalry censured by the UN for action in wartime, the US executes minors and those with learning disabilities. Should Atlanta have been denied the Olympics because of it?

Qatar is a centre of 'human trafficking', I wouldn't have thought the Qatari Govt was involved in this though? Do you stop Qatar being a host because of that while allowing Argentina 78 to go ahead in stadiums where people had been shot a few months previously?, South Korea imprisons dissidents and Japan kills whales, should they have got it in 2002?

I don't mind morality judgements, but they're usually open to massive double standards, especially when it involves the English press:cool2:

[discman]

Yes, South Africa were excluded for years and years because of apartheid. A bit of a special case to be honest.

In a perfect world I agree with you, but again, how do you judge? The UN Declaration of Human Rights says a lot of things that are open to definition...Western Liberal democracies have been regulalry censured by the UN for action in wartime, the US executes minors and those with learning disabilities. Should Atlanta have been denied the Olympics because of it?

Qatar is a centre of 'human trafficking', I wouldn't have thought the Qatari Govt was involved in this though? Do you stop Qatar being a host because of that while allowing Argentina 78 to go ahead in stadiums where people had been shot a few months previously?, South Korea imprisons dissidents and Japan kills whales, should they have got it in 2002?

I don't mind morality judgements, but they're usually open to massive double standards, especially when it involves the English press:cool2:


Should be more special cases in my humble opinion!


As for the great satan executing all these minors and people with disabilities,am guessing you already know that certain states dont execute whilst others do!


Yup, me, I'am of the school OF "two wrongs dont make a right" simple I know but there ya go:greengrin

Didnt understand the last piece of your post, dont remember mentioning the press,me happy to acknowledge am an out an out gaurdinesta,actually bought the Telegraph during the MPs expenses thing,great piece of journalism,otherwise its the internet for me:cool2:

[DaveSo]

Heard today on the radio that Franz Beckenbaur has come out and said the Qatar WC should be played in January when the climate there is more bearable.
Now, if that was to happen what a great opportunity for the Scottish game to change its format to the season.
Start the 2022 season in February once the WC is over. Play the first half of the season until June with the League Cup Final being the first silverware winner. Have a summer break in July, restart the season in August and play until November with the Scottish Cup Final being the last game of the year.
That gives the game a winter break in December and January. We could still have a New Year "pre-season" game with Hearts at New Year. We could even invite teams to take part in a New Year tournament to make it a wee bit competitive.
Makes sense to me but will the SFA have the courage to even consider it and then implement it ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Heard today on the radio that Franz Beckenbaur has come out and said the Qatar WC should be played in January when the climate there is more bearable.
Now, if that was to happen what a great opportunity for the Scottish game to change its format to the season.
Start the 2022 season in February once the WC is over. Play the first half of the season until June with the League Cup Final being the first silverware winner. Have a summer break in July, restart the season in August and play until November with the Scottish Cup Final being the last game of the year.
That gives the game a winter break in December and January. We could still have a New Year "pre-season" game with Hearts at New Year. We could even invite teams to take part in a New Year tournament to make it a wee bit competitive.
Makes sense to me but will the SFA have the courage to even consider it and then implement it ?

That thought crossed my mind, too. It's 11 years away, so plenty of time for UEFA to sort things out.

It also forces some lateral thinking, in that WC's are always in line with European seasons. Of course, that in itself makes sense since world football is dominated by Europe. However, if we are set on making football a proper world sport, it must follow that we have to adopt a different, more inclusive, mindset.

[hibsbollah]

Should be more special cases in my humble opinion!


As for the great satan executing all these minors and people with disabilities,am guessing you already know that certain states dont execute whilst others do!


Yup, me, I'am of the school OF "two wrongs dont make a right" simple I know but there ya go:greengrin

Didnt understand the last piece of your post, dont remember mentioning the press,me happy to acknowledge am an out an out gaurdinesta,actually bought the Telegraph during the MPs expenses thing,great piece of journalism,otherwise its the internet for me:cool2:

The comment about the media wasnt directed at you particularly...Theres been plenty of media outrage about supposed problems in the successful countries though, which I guess is mostly motivated by sour grapes and nothing else.

[Russian Hibs Fan]

Hibees! Free accomodation for you in Rostov in 2018 is reserved! :agree::wink:

[PatHead]

Notice Boris Johnston has withdrawn free accomodation for all members of FIFA executive committee at the Dorchester Hotel during the Olympics as they didn't vote for them. Thoght England didn't do bribes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hypocrytes. Glad these whinging bassas didn't get the tourney

[magpie1892]

Notice Boris Johnston has withdrawn free accomodation for all members of FIFA executive committee at the Dorchester Hotel during the Olympics as they didn't vote for them. Thoght England didn't do bribes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hypocrytes. Glad these whinging bassas didn't get the tourney

I know! Imagine if I offered you £1,000 to do something and you did the exact opposite. I'd still pay of course.

Can England bill Jack 'you can rely on me' Warner for costs incurred in travelling to T&T for a friendly in a hugely naive attempt to shore up his vote/s? No, don't be silly! Here, have a couple more million to add to the $17 million you have stolen from the T&T 2006 WC bonuses. Money that you have been ordered to hand over by two courts yet have not recompensed one penny.

As (presumably) a Hibs and, perhaps, a Scotland fan, does it not bother you that Warner was working four members of the SFA to steal from his own FA within Easter Road?

Defending corruption, theft and racism. Good lad!

[--------]

Yes, South Africa were excluded for years and years because of apartheid. A bit of a special case to be honest.

In a perfect world I agree with you, but again, how do you judge? The UN Declaration of Human Rights says a lot of things that are open to definition...Western Liberal democracies have been regulalry censured by the UN for action in wartime, the US executes minors and those with learning disabilities. Should Atlanta have been denied the Olympics because of it?

Qatar is a centre of 'human trafficking', I wouldn't have thought the Qatari Govt was involved in this though? Do you stop Qatar being a host because of that while allowing Argentina 78 to go ahead in stadiums where people had been shot a few months previously?, South Korea imprisons dissidents and Japan kills whales, should they have got it in 2002?

I don't mind morality judgements, but they're usually open to massive double standards, especially when it involves the English press:cool2:


:agree:

This is on the BBC site just now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2010/12/fifa.

It's all very well the FA trying to take the moral high ground now, but those of us who remember that sanctimonious old crook Sir Stanley Rous know better.

In South American eyes, Rous was as blatantly compromised and corrupt in 1966 as any of the FIFA high heid yins are now. I tend to agree with them.

Their view (justified IMO) is that Rous did everything in his power as FIFA President to assist his own country to win the World Cup in 1966 by manipulating the appointment of referees and by allowing England the considerable advantage of playing all their games at Wembley (allegedly because of the demand for tickets, but no one in Argentina for example believes that).

The treatment of Pele (kicked out of the tournament by Portugal and Hungary while European officials looked on) infuriated many people in Latin America, too, especially when compared to the treatment dealt out to other South American players. The dismissal of the Argentine captain, Antonio Rattin, in the quarter-final against England, and the way Nobby Stiles was given free rein to kick Eusebio (the first African football superstar) off the park in the semi-final didn't help.

And as Vickery points out, Rous was very favourable towards Apartheid South Africa. (So, by the way, were the 4 Home Nations Associations - Scotland in particular had close relations with the South Africa Football authorities long into the Apartheid era.) His insistence on FIFA maintaining and open attitude to SA, while being as unfriendly and unwelcoming as possible to other African nations set African football back by a good number of years, IMO.

Under his presidency, FIFA allowed Chile and Argentina to play matches in stadia that had been used - some that were even still being used - as prisons for dissidents under military dictatorships like Pinochet's and Vileda's. The dispute over the play-off between Chile and the Soviet Union was particularly badly handled, and IMO was the final straw that led to rous being punted - long after due time, IMO.

This is why no one really takes England's protestations seriously, I think. In many cases Third World FAs will view the matter as sour grapes by a nation used to having its own way, and not too scrupulous about it it used to get it.

There's also a lot of resentment at the ignorance shown by some of those who're complaining - the idea, for example, that football isn't one of the major and dominant sports in Russia is ludicrous - Russian football has a long and honourable history, and is a lot better organised, funded and supported than football in Scotland right now.

Russia is a very big country, and it's ridiculous that they haven't hosted the World Cup yet.

Or that Qatar won't be able to run the tournament or attract crowds - again, I suspect that this idea is rooted in a lack of awareness of just how the world has changed in the past 30-40 years. Arab countries have reputable and well-run airlines these days, you know... And running water. And I believe they've even heard of air-conditioning.

And they're VERY enthusiastic about their football.

[Joe Baker II]

:agree:

This is on the BBC site just now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2010/12/fifa.

It's all very well the FA trying to take the moral high ground now, but those of us who remember that sanctimonious old crook Sir Stanley Rous know better.

In South American eyes, Rous was as blatantly compromised and corrupt in 1966 as any of the FIFA high heid yins are now. I tend to agree with them.

Their view (justified IMO) is that Rous did everything in his power as FIFA President to assist his own country to win the World Cup in 1966 by manipulating the appointment of referees and by allowing England the considerable advantage of playing all their games at Wembley (allegedly because of the demand for tickets, but no one in Argentina for example believes that).

The treatment of Pele (kicked out of the tournament by Portugal and Hungary while European officials looked on) infuriated many people in Latin America, too, especially when compared to the treatment dealt out to other South American players. The dismissal of the Argentine captain, Antonio Rattin, in the quarter-final against England, and the way Nobby Stiles was given free rein to kick Eusebio (the first African football superstar) off the park in the semi-final didn't help.

And as Vickery points out, Rous was very favourable towards Apartheid South Africa. (So, by the way, were the 4 Home Nations Associations - Scotland in particular had close relations with the South Africa Football authorities long into the Apartheid era.) His insistence on FIFA maintaining and open attitude to SA, while being as unfriendly and unwelcoming as possible to other African nations set African football back by a good number of years, IMO.

Under his presidency, FIFA allowed Chile and Argentina to play matches in stadia that had been used - some that were even still being used - as prisons for dissidents under military dictatorships like Pinochet's and Vileda's. The dispute over the play-off between Chile and the Soviet Union was particularly badly handled, and IMO was the final straw that led to rous being punted - long after due time, IMO.

This is why no one really takes England's protestations seriously, I think. In many cases Third World FAs will view the matter as sour grapes by a nation used to having its own way, and not too scrupulous about it it used to get it.

There's also a lot of resentment at the ignorance shown by some of those who're complaining - the idea, for example, that football isn't one of the major and dominant sports in Russia is ludicrous - Russian football has a long and honourable history, and is a lot better organised, funded and supported than football in Scotland right now.

Russia is a very big country, and it's ridiculous that they haven't hosted the World Cup yet.

Or that Qatar won't be able to run the tournament or attract crowds - again, I suspect that this idea is rooted in a lack of awareness of just how the world has changed in the past 30-40 years. Arab countries have reputable and well-run airlines these days, you know... And running water. And I believe they've even heard of air-conditioning.

And they're VERY enthusiastic about their football.

One of the best posts I have ever seen on Hibs.net and shows why many of us found England's bid performance one of the most hilarious momnets of 2010, sadly as you say the SFA may not have been as guilty as Rous but they were not innocent.

[LincolnshireHib]

Firstly, good to see there's lots of support for England's failed bid on here. I'm pleased I decided to buy a season ticket and support Scottish Football during my exile north of the border.

Secondly, you think that the London 2012 (quote 'Lupo' page 2 of this thread) bid represents an England bid for the 2012 Olympics? I am offended. I was against 2012 because the only people that stand to benefit from are Londoners and people in the counties adjacent to London yet all British taxpayers money will be paying for it! At least with an England World Cup bid it would have bee spread across the whole of England benefitting people who don't live in the Big Smoke. I appreciate that has nothing to do with Scotland but conversely I'm sure all the money that pays for the Scottish Parlement and free Higher Education comes from soley the Scottish taxpayer doesn't it? Besides Wales have lauched their own bid, in direct competition with England, to host the Euro U21 2013 Championships. Scotland are free to approach the Irish and Welsh FA's, as well as England, to submit a joint bid should they want to.

The FIFA decision was a disgrace. Whilst I'm absolutely gutted that the next time I'll possibly be able to see a World Cup won't be until 2030, I'm glad, for the sake of the whole British Public, that we do not have to endure FIFA's ridiculous demands which would come at a high cost.

[magpie1892]

Firstly, good to see there's lots of support for England's failed bid on here. I'm pleased I decided to buy a season ticket and support Scottish Football during my exile north of the border.

Secondly, you think that the London 2012 (quote 'Lupo' page 2 of this thread) bid represents an England bid for the 2012 Olympics? I am offended. I was against 2012 because the only people that stand to benefit from are Londoners and people in the counties adjacent to London yet all British taxpayers money will be paying for it! At least with an England World Cup bid it would have bee spread across the whole of England benefitting people who don't live in the Big Smoke. I appreciate that has nothing to do with Scotland but conversely I'm sure all the money that pays for the Scottish Parlement and free Higher Education comes from soley the Scottish taxpayer doesn't it? Besides Wales have lauched their own bid, in direct competition with England, to host the Euro U21 2013 Championships. Scotland are free to approach the Irish and Welsh FA's, as well as England, to submit a joint bid should they want to.

The FIFA decision was a disgrace. Whilst I'm absolutely gutted that the next time I'll possibly be able to see a World Cup won't be until 2030, I'm glad, for the sake of the whole British Public, that we do not have to endure FIFA's ridiculous demands which would come at a high cost.

I think there's a lot of comment on this thread from people who are overjoyed that England didn't get it and that's understandable, if a little childish. Many people seem to be overlooking the position that it's less about how England failed, but the manner in which FIFA humiliated them/us.

The 1/21 votes England got was a very clear message from FIFA but, moving on, I don't think there would have been a peep from most people south of the border had Spain/Potugal or NL/Belgium got it, despite the fact that the odious Jack Warner said 'his' votes were England's, then reneged, then claimed he DID vote for England before confiriming yesterday that he actually didn't (no? really?)

But Russia got it. The 'mafia state' with endemic corruption, endemic racism, endemic and violent homophobia, frequent murder of dissdents, etc.

The less said about Qatar the better.

I know that the anti-English thing has to be clouding judgements as I find it hard to believe that the denizens of this board would defend:

Corruption
Lies
Duplicity
Homophobia
Racism
Dictatorship

and in Qatar's case, add to that:

Slavery
Outlandish climate
Anti-semitism actually in the statute
No stadiums
No infrastructure
No achievement in football, ever
No appetite for the domestic product

and so on and so forth.

[hibbybrian]

I know that the anti-English thing has to be clouding judgements as I find it hard to believe that the denizens of this board would defend:

Corruption
Lies
Duplicity
Dictatorship
and so on and so forth.

Thought I was reading the Pardew thread there for a moment :greengrin :wink:

[magpie1892]

Thought I was reading the Pardew thread there for a moment :greengrin :wink:

Oh Brian, you are a card...

[hibbybrian]

Oh Brian, you are a card...

In the imortal words of Hector Nicol

:singing: I dinnae want to brag

GGTTH

:flag::scarf::xsmilesign

[magpie1892]

In the imortal words of Hector Nicol

:singing: I dinnae want to brag

GGTTH

:flag::scarf::xsmilesign

Showin' yer age there, pal...

We need 500w about Mark Caughy as an encore.

[edit] p.s. your puns need attention.

[Golden Bear]

The Qatar decision absolutely stinks. An utter, utter joke.

I heard that Sepp Blatter was asked whom his favourite Qatar player was and he answered Eric Clapton.

Allegedly.

:wink:

[hibbybrian]

Showin' yer age there, pal...

We need 500w about Mark Caughy as an encore.

[edit] p.s. your puns need attention.

Not one to hide my age as you well know :greengrin

Would that be the Mark Caughey of Glentoran, RUC, Linfield, Hibs, Burnley, Hamilton, Motherwell, Ards, Bangor City, Glentoran, Limavady United, Portstewart and Northern Ireland fame (5% of the words already) :greengrin

and no need for you to pay any attention to my puns, thank you very much :wink: :cool2:

[magpie1892]

I heard that Sepp Blatter was asked whom his favourite Qatar player was and he answered Eric Clapton.

Allegedly.

:wink:

Jack Warner prefers Jimi. No 'white foreigner' is going to tell him which guitarist to prefer.

[magpie1892]

Not one to hide my age as you well know :greengrin

Would that be the Mark Caughey of Glentoran, RUC, Linfield, Hibs, Burnley, Hamilton, Motherwell, Ards, Bangor City, Glentoran, Limavady United, Portstewart and Northern Ireland fame (5% of the words already) :greengrin

and no need for you to pay any attention to my puns, thank you very much :wink: :cool2:

I've got sub-editors under my questionable aegis to sort out that sort of thing.

The typo, not your age, that is.