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Toaods
21-11-2010, 06:15 PM
strike action over criticism...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9214212.stm

should turf the lot of them that refuse to turn up.

hibsboy90
21-11-2010, 06:18 PM
Neil Lennon ya arse! :grr:

marinello59
21-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Don't blame them.

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 06:20 PM
The refs are *****, why punish the rest of us, when its clear its Celtc they are angry with?

Removed
21-11-2010, 06:20 PM
Agree. We all know who's to blame here

stubru59
21-11-2010, 06:21 PM
strike action over criticism...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9214212.stm

should turf the lot of them that refuse to turn up.

Aye, that'll help right enough!

hibee-shtuggie
21-11-2010, 06:22 PM
well done you , you have really done it this time you paranoid loudmouthed ginger twat. you actually make my blood boil, after all the fuss you have kicked up, you may ruin next weekend's football. Referee strike for all grade 1 referee's. All this latest nonsense about hooper getting three yellows for voicing up about ref's too must have been the last straw. what a bunch of wee bairn's! ahhhhhhhhhhhhh:grr:

offshorehibby
21-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Surprised they never told them to ram it ages ago.

Toaods
21-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Aye, that'll help right enough!


It'll help more than the likely idle threat of strike action

Ringothedog
21-11-2010, 06:23 PM
I hope they do, then we will see what knobends like Lennon say. Bottom line, no officials, no games, nae fitba.

It is clowns like Lennon who should be apologising not the refs

ps I still hate refs and think they are all anti-hibs:wink:

Hibs Class
21-11-2010, 06:24 PM
Reid to Lennon to Hooper - that club is filled with **** from top to bottom

ronaldo7
21-11-2010, 06:26 PM
It's become clear that the refs are under severe scrutiny in the matches played this season, Lennon, and Celtc, being the worst offenders. I'm sure the refs have thought long and hard before taking the action of withdrawing their labour.

It's been coming for a while now.

ScottB
21-11-2010, 06:29 PM
Celtic and Lennon should be done for bringing the game into disrepute.

I fully support the refs strike action, we all have that right, to deny it to refs would be a nonsense.

PiemanP
21-11-2010, 06:31 PM
Reid to Lennon to Hooper - that club is filled with **** from top to bottom

definatly!

I personally think that referees should specifically strike for celtic games only, why should one paranoid, winging ginger twat ruin football for the rest of the teams? Celtic should have the bloody book thrown at them!

500miles
21-11-2010, 06:33 PM
Stupid time to call a strike. Should have done this the next time Celtic play Rangers at Parkhead.

Toaods
21-11-2010, 06:33 PM
If the refs have a genuine greavance against any specific club, then they can take that to the governing body for action.

They are so gutless they can't even step forward now and name Celtic FC who everyone knows are the cause of the current climate.

Jim44
21-11-2010, 06:34 PM
A weekend off might not be too bad for us...........................more time for CC to get to grips with the players in training.:dunno:

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 06:35 PM
definatly!

I personally think that referees should specifically strike for celtic games only, why should one paranoid, winging ginger twat ruin football for the rest of the teams? Celtic should have the bloody book thrown at them!

:top marks:agree: This has been a one club crusade against the officials, one to put as much pressure as possible on the refs, so they can benefit. Its nothing to do with the rest of us. Let them suffer.

ronaldo7
21-11-2010, 06:36 PM
I heard the vote was taken on a show of Handshakes:greengrin

HibeePatrick
21-11-2010, 06:37 PM
I'm surprised the refs didn't decide to strike sooner. Absolutely ridiculous amount of criticism recently, especially from Celtic an Lennon. People need to realize that they are humans who make mistakes, simple as that.

Death threats and the like that have been happening recently means that this strike is completely justified, even if we unfortunately lose this weeks football.

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 06:37 PM
If the refs have a genuine greavance against any specific club, then they scan take that to teh governing body for action.

They are so gutless they can't even step forward now and name Celtic FC who everyone knows are the cause of the current climate.

Spot on, gutless. And in dragging us into this, it says we are to blame as well. :grr:

Jack
21-11-2010, 06:37 PM
Quite right, although I think they should target the clubs they're unhappy with and not just the one weekend.

Top Pans Hibby
21-11-2010, 06:40 PM
Whilst we all have a go at referees from time to time, I for one support them this time around. However, any action should not be limited to Grade 1 refs only. All refs the length and breadth of the country should withdraw their services next weekend. The abuse that referees take at all levels from so called coaches, parents, supporters etc has simply got to stop or the game in this country will die.

That said, now seems to be an opportune moment for a root and branch review of the game in this country. Trust in the SFA and the wider governing bodies of Scottish Football seems to be at rock bottom. Only a total clear out would seem to resolve the ongoing issues...........

lucky
21-11-2010, 06:43 PM
As usual the refs will back down. Bunch of spineless twats. But in the event they want to strike are they not covered by the same employment laws as the rest of UK workers as such I don't think they have had a secret ballot or given their employer the statutory notice of this action. Can just imagine in it now. SPL takes court action to force them to ref or worse getting Scabs in to cover for them.

Only in Scottish fitba could we have this.

seanraff07
21-11-2010, 06:46 PM
If this weekend's games were to be postponed, when would they be re-scheduled for?

Love the Green
21-11-2010, 06:49 PM
Celtic and Lennon should be done for bringing the game into disrepute.

I fully support the refs strike action, we all have that right, to deny it to refs would be a nonsense.


Yes and havn't our players exercised their right about 14 times this season already.

By the way refereeing standards are at an all time low so something needs to be done...why are they any different from any other workers/proffessionals.

Keep the Faith:wink:

Leithenhibby
21-11-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm with the Refs on this one, just because they wear black (sometimes) and have a whistle doesn't mean you can talk/shout at them as if they are the muck on your shoe.

Sure they have made mistakes :agree: haven't we all at times under pressure :agree: but at the end of the day they are human, and it's only a game.

The Refs had to do something!! it's not what we wanted but it has come to such a head that something had to give :cool2:

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 06:53 PM
I'm with the Refs on this one, just because they wear black (sometimes) and have a whistle doesn't mean you can talk/shout at them as if they are the muck on your shoe.

Sure they have made mistakes :agree: haven't we all at times under pressure :agree: but at the end of the day they are human, and it's only a game.

The Refs had to do something!! it's not what we wanted but it has come to such a head that something had to give :cool2:

I agree, but why be gutless and punish all of us, when we all know why they are doing it?

Leithenhibby
21-11-2010, 06:57 PM
I agree, but why be gutless and punish all of us, when we all know why they are doing it?

This is the joker, it's the only tool they have of any worth ...

Perhaps it's not fair on everyone else, but then it's not fair for the Refs to be expected to take the abuse that they do...

DeLaGaff
21-11-2010, 07:04 PM
It's about time that they fought back. Might not get everything right, but if the standard of refereeing is poor then it's still ten times better than the standard of football in the SPL at the moment.

Everyone likes a moan about a decision, a moan about a player or even just pure bad luck - it's all part and parcel of football. Celtic have gone miles too far down this road. It is utterly tiresome and completely unvindicated!
Will be disappointed if the game is cancelled next weekend, but if it helps the greater cause and gets people talking about football again then I am all for it!

Someone with Lennon's personal life talking about integrity? John Reid's work with the government - they want to have a look at themselves!

Mon the Men In Black, get them telt!!!

forthhibby
21-11-2010, 07:04 PM
SSN saying they understand scottish refs will go on strike next weekend

ScottB
21-11-2010, 07:04 PM
I agree, but why be gutless and punish all of us, when we all know why they are doing it?

And if the refs came out and said they were going on strike and refusing to officiate Celtic games only, wouldn't that just feed into their paranoid insanity about the grand conspiracies against them?

Sammy7nil
21-11-2010, 07:07 PM
Refs have an impossible job, players diving, cheating, shirt pulling, spitting feigning injury, time wasting etc etc

Teams need to get their house in order I am 100% with refs too.

hughio
21-11-2010, 07:09 PM
I support the referees on this.

Lennon, Reid and Celtc are the ones who have pushed them to this but it has been coming for a long while and as the Panner above says its a problem at every level of the game.

No acceptance of decisions.

We are an increasingly petulant childish mob who think we have the right to scream the house down if things dont go our way.

:rolleyes:

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 07:10 PM
This is the joker, it's the only tool they have of any worth ...

Perhaps it's not fair on everyone else, but then it's not fair for the Refs to be expected to take the abuse that they do...


And if the refs came out and said they were going on strike and refusing to officiate Celtic games only, wouldn't that just feed into their paranoid insanity about the grand conspiracies against them?

I agree, although if my next door neighbor murders his wife, the whole street dont get a 10 stretch. Celtic are wrong, punish them, and punish them hard. And if they do it again, punish them harder. If they want to carry on this conspiracy theory, let them, who gives a toss apart from them?

matty_f
21-11-2010, 07:12 PM
I have an interest in a couple of retail units in the Ocean Terminal mall and I see the world go by.When I visit now and again.In a previous life I had a query regarding a ruling that was the subject of debate on this forum. I bumped into George smith outside Boots. He answered my question and I posted the answer on here.. Can't remember what the question was but I couldn't help myself quizzing him on the question separately on the question of refs making decisions against teams they support. I can honestly say that he convinced me that when he was reffing he blanked any loyalty out and gave decisions on a completely neutral basis.Now... That's what he said and I believed that he believed what he said. I personally think it would be extremely hard not to favour youbiyhood heroes.:agree:

Lofty or Maka?:dunno:

Leithenhibby
21-11-2010, 07:14 PM
I agree, although if my next door neighbor murders his wife, the whole street dont get a 10 stretch. Celtic are wrong, punish them, and punish them hard. And if they do it again, punish them harder. If they want to carry on this conspiracy theory, let them, who gives a toss apart from them?


This is very true :wink: but unfortunately the powers that would punish Celtic have obviously decided that it may just go away !!!... unfortunately not ..

DeLaGaff
21-11-2010, 07:15 PM
Refs have an impossible job, players diving, cheating, shirt pulling, spitting feigning injury, time wasting etc etc

Teams need to get their house in order I am 100% with refs too.

That's the thing that gets me, footballers and managers are allowed to behave as they like and it's up to the refs to be "above all that?!"

The players/managers are the ones making the money from football so should they not take responsibility for the product? The case that this centres around is a decision that was correct, the referee changed his mind and showed common sense - is that not what teams were looking for.

I would like to see everyone in the SPL get behind the refs and show Celtic up for the bunch of paranoid hypocritical morons that they are!

LancashireHibby
21-11-2010, 07:17 PM
Support the refs in something needs to be done about the abuse they suffer, and I find it sad that it will potentially take strike action for the SFA to take note. That said, I think it'd be more beneficial to just go on strike for the Celtc game, even it will just increase their paranoia (if it isn't at saturation point already).

HIBERNIAN-0762
21-11-2010, 07:18 PM
Well done the smellies for causing this totally ridiculous situation, they're constant sniping and moaning to get their own way has now jumped up and bit them in the bum, why don't they just shut the fk up and get on with the game of football?, that cretin Reid should be held to account by the rest of the SPL teams as revenue will be lost due to the cancellation of next weekends game, I hope the SFA have the balls to throw the book at him and that miserable bunch of whining erseholes on the smellies board.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

Part/Time Supporter
21-11-2010, 07:18 PM
The ridiculous aspect of this is that Celtc might benefit out of a strike. They have a deeper squad than any of the other teams (including the Huns) and would be better able to cope with a more tightly packed schedule.

I don't see why the rest of Scottish football should suffer for those fools.

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Well done the smellies for causing this totally ridiculous situation, they're constant sniping and moaning to get their own way has now jumped up and bit them in the bum, why don't they just shut the fk up and get on with the game of football?, that cretin Reid should be held to account by the rest of the SPL teams as revenue will be lost due to the cancellation of next weekends game, I hope the SFA have the balls to throw the book at him and that miserable bunch of whining erseholes on the smellies board.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

There is a the flaw in that argument, can anyone spot it?

cad
21-11-2010, 07:26 PM
It's about time that they fought back. Might not get everything right, but if the standard of refereeing is poor then it's still ten times better than the standard of football in the SPL at the moment.

Everyone likes a moan about a decision, a moan about a player or even just pure bad luck - it's all part and parcel of football. Celtic have gone miles too far down this road. It is utterly tiresome and completely unvindicated!
Will be disappointed if the game is cancelled next weekend, but if it helps the greater cause and gets people talking about football again then I am all for it!

Someone with Lennon's personal life talking about integrity? John Reid's work with the government - they want to have a look at themselves!

Mon the Men In Black, get them telt!!!




I was thinking the same thing
Reids wrong calls cost some punters more than a penalty against or a sending off

Barney McGrew
21-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Spot on, gutless. And in dragging us into this, it says we are to blame as well. :grr:

Hardly gutless - what else can they do?

The other clubs may not be to blame, but they've hardly been vocal in support of the refs since all this kicked off. It's maybe about time that some of the other teams started to be a lot louder in agreeing that (in general) referees do a very difficult job pretty well.

I'm in full support of the refs if they do take this action, it's about time a line was drawn in the sand with the pish they have to put up with.

matty_f
21-11-2010, 07:31 PM
If push comes to shove, I dinnae mind volunteering to ref our game against St Johnstone.:agree:

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 07:31 PM
Hardly gutless - what else can they do?

The other clubs may not be to blame, but they've hardly been vocal in support of the refs since all this kicked off. It's maybe about time that some of the other teams started to be a lot louder in agreeing that (in general) referees do a very difficult job pretty well.

I'm in full support of the refs if they do take this action, it's about time a line was drawn in the sand with the pish they have to put up with.

They could start with saying what they really mean. Dont get all dewy eyed over this, this is celtics doing, nothing more nothing less. If they were to say so, instead of painting us all the same, they'd get a lot more respect from me.

ScottB
21-11-2010, 07:32 PM
I agree, although if my next door neighbor murders his wife, the whole street dont get a 10 stretch. Celtic are wrong, punish them, and punish them hard. And if they do it again, punish them harder. If they want to carry on this conspiracy theory, let them, who gives a toss apart from them?

Indeed, but on the other hand, have the SFA and SPL even said word one about Celtic and Lennon's conduct? If I was a ref I wouldn't be convinced they'd be on my side of the argument.

marinello59
21-11-2010, 07:34 PM
Spot on, gutless. And in dragging us into this, it says we are to blame as well. :grr:

I wouldn't say it as gutless, any strike action in any walk of life isn't taken lightly.
I would call it a clever tactic. This will ensure that the Chairmen of all SPL clubs will be putting pressure on Celtic to quit the pathetic bleating. The SPL and the SFA should have taken action before now and the member clubs should have been pressing for action to be taken. It's the ruling bodies that have been gutless, not the refs.

Alfred E Newman
21-11-2010, 07:37 PM
Its time the SFA were taking Celtic on over this nonsense. Any other club, except Rangers of course , would have been hammered by now. They should call their bluff and threaten to dock the twats points if they persist with this garbage.
I fully support the referees, they might well be inconsistant and useless at times but that is all and without them we have no football.

3pm
21-11-2010, 07:37 PM
If push comes to shove, I dinnae mind volunteering to ref our game against St Johnstone.:agree:

Who's the ba$t*** in the green (scarf)?!

Barney McGrew
21-11-2010, 07:38 PM
They could start with saying what they really mean. Dont get all dewy eyed over this, this is celtics doing, nothing more nothing less. If they were to say so, instead of painting us all the same, they'd get a lot more respect from me.

I don't believe that this is all to do with Celtc - I think it's probably the straw that's broken the camel's back though.

Potter was very vocal in his criticism of refs for ages at United, as have many other managers. The abuse they take in their personal lives outside football seems to be getting worse and worse too.

It's about time fans and officials of all clubs realised that our game is redundant without them, and they need to start to treat them with a bit more respect.

Removed
21-11-2010, 07:40 PM
Who's the fat ba$t*** in the green (scarf)?!

Fixed that for you :agree: :greengrin

northern-hibee
21-11-2010, 07:43 PM
News of this strike is excellent news. We can start from scratch, starting next weekend with English (or any other country) refs refereeing SPL matches. I've seen far too many dodgy decisions in my time to have any faith in refs from this country and the natural bias they show for the old firm. I think they just can't help themselfs. With refs from elsewhere, not steeped in the history of our game, who won't have to live within the communities affected by their decisions then we may finally see a level playing field.

And refs from Scotland can likewise ref elsewhere, a win win situation.

ClewsHibs
21-11-2010, 07:44 PM
There is a the flaw in that argument, can anyone spot it?


they dont have any balls :wink:

Jonnyboy
21-11-2010, 07:46 PM
They could start with saying what they really mean. Dont get all dewy eyed over this, this is celtics doing, nothing more nothing less. If they were to say so, instead of painting us all the same, they'd get a lot more respect from me.

Not sure I agree 100% G. Certainly the ginger whinger has been the most vocal and has been backed up by the former MP and the former non league player but they're the tip of the iceberg really. Peter Houston has slated refs recently as has Terry Butcher albeit in a backhanded sort of way. CC had words at half time during the match v Motherwell etc. All Lennon and his cohorts have done is crank up the volume by going public but lets not pretend they're the only ones who criticise referees!

Matty_Jack04
21-11-2010, 07:47 PM
I have an interest in a couple of retail units in the Ocean Terminal mall and I see the world go by.When I visit now and again.In a previous life I had a query regarding a ruling that was the subject of debate on this forum. I bumped into George smith outside Boots. He answered my question and I posted the answer on here.. Can't remember what the question was but I couldn't help myself quizzing him on the question separately on the question of refs making decisions against teams they support. I can honestly say that he convinced me that when he was reffing he blanked any loyalty out and gave decisions on a completely neutral basis.Now... That's what he said and I believed that he believed what he said. I personally think it would be extremely hard not to favour youbiyhood heroes.:agree:

totaly disagree, I hate everything about the financial industry because of recent events, i work for Lloyds Banking and go in every day and give them 110% because they pay my wages and thats what im supposed to do, i beleive refs are no diffrent, all loyaltys will be pushed aside in favour of a good fair game of football, the mistakes we see and wrong decisions are down to human error NOT loyalty to certain teams.


Celtic football club have made bad decisions from boardroom level downwards for the last 3 years atleast, resulting in them winning near enough hee haw and no getting there monthly affair with the champs league, instead of looking in house they point the finger of blame at anything that comes there way,most commonly known in the playground as sore losers.
Its a shame we all have to suffer with the strike but the SFA have hardly came running to the defence of the officials or punished any offenders to stop things excalating further so good on them i say! gives me time to shift this man flu before the next game!:greengrin

Albion Hibs
21-11-2010, 07:47 PM
Stupid time to call a strike. Should have done this the next time Celtic play Rangers at Parkhead.

Great shout. I bet that would soon get them and there rancid fans back in line.

Toaods
21-11-2010, 07:48 PM
Potter was very vocal in his criticism of refs for ages at United, as have many other managers.


Levein's legal search was into the likleyhood of the SFA stopping him plying his trade as a manager or forcing him to pay a fine they had imposed.

I know 100% (insider info :wink: ) the SFA couldn't make either stick, hence his refusal to pay the fine, which you may recall was paid by the club 'on his behalf'. This was to avoid any deeper sanctions that would backfire onto the club as ultimately they were responsible for their employees.

At the SFA, Levein was given undue respect IMHO for his tenacity in all of this.

Gordon Smith hated him and vice-versa. Look where we are today, Smith is out and Levein is at the helm.

I think Lennon found out he could resist and also speak his mind but has overstepped the mark in adding to his immature touchline antics and the general hatred he draws from people.

PaulSmith
21-11-2010, 07:50 PM
I hope this extends to every level in Scotland. Far too many people think that it's acceptable to stand with a bunch of other 'adults' and call a ref anything they want, I've seen this personally from anything from under 12's right through the age groups to junior football.
There's an incident on pie and bovril, junior section, from yesterday where fans were on the park trying to attack the referee. This isn't something in isolation BTW.

R'Albin
21-11-2010, 07:51 PM
Neil lennon can piss of stupid ginger clown this is all his fault:grr:

Hibernia Na Eir
21-11-2010, 07:52 PM
have to ask, what is unfair about asking what team you support?

Refs should grow balls.

Hibernia Na Eir
21-11-2010, 07:54 PM
dare to cross the refs picketline and face the wrath of the full Masonic heavyweights!!

Toaods
21-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Not sure I agree 100% G. Certainly the ginger whinger has been the most vocal and has been backed up by the former MP and the former non league player but they're the tip of the iceberg really.

For avoidance of any doubt, do you refer to ginger whinger 1(Strachan) or ginger whinger 2 (Lennon)...:greengrin.

I also believe the MSP is nothing more than a patsy to get Reid off the hook.

northern-hibee
21-11-2010, 07:56 PM
have to ask, what is unfair about asking what team you support?

Refs should grow balls.

Totally agree mate. The only reason they wont is because of the acute embarresment it would cause when our suspicions are finally confirmed

PaulSmith
21-11-2010, 07:56 PM
have to ask, what is unfair about asking what team you support?

Refs should grow balls.

Cause it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to a referee, your questioning their integrity for games involving the team they might have an allegiance to or their rivals.

Grow balls...would you have the balls to take verbals and risk personal assault every week? Your speaking through complete ignorance.

ScottB
21-11-2010, 07:57 PM
have to ask, what is unfair about asking what team you support?

Refs should grow balls.

How would it change anything?

You'd either get fans saying that ref X was lying when he said he supports Raith Rovers and is actually a massive Rangers / Celtic / Hearts / whoever fan, or you'd have to work out every permutation imaginable; would it be ok for a Motherwell supporting ref to referee a Hibs v Hearts match if Motherwell were competing with Hearts for 3rd spot and would benefit from Hearts failing to win?

It would open a huge can of worms. If it is to be done it should be like in England, where it is in private only.

Removed
21-11-2010, 07:58 PM
Can we pause this thread for a wee while, the X factor is coming on :wink:

WindyMiller
21-11-2010, 07:59 PM
I'm 100% behind the Refs and hope they carry it through.
They are expected to be right every time but the players cheat from the first whistle to the last. Some players, and I include dozens who've played for us, spend the whole game looking to get other players booked for the most innocuous challenges.
Managers blame the Ref. for bad decisions to hide their own, and their team's, failings.






Disclaimer; This has nothing to do with the fact that I'm on shift on Saturday and might not be when the game's re-arranged.

Hibbyradge
21-11-2010, 08:03 PM
I personally think it would be extremely hard not to favour youbiyhood heroes.:agree:

I guess you wouldn't make it as a referee then.

It's hard not to, but you shouldn't judge people by your own standards.

HibbyKeith
21-11-2010, 08:07 PM
Nevermind what team they support or having a strike in protest.

Pitch side tv evidence with each team able to challenge a ref's decision is the way forward. I know its been done to death but if ever there was a time to initiate this its now.

It may not solve all the problems of the game but will at least give teams and ref's a fighting chance at getting the more important decisions correct.

Kaiser1962
21-11-2010, 08:08 PM
I agree with the ref's as there is no need for the vitriol that is levelled against them. While Lennon takes the moral high ground over Dougie McDonalds "lie" it was about the whitest lie you will get and Lennon is all indignant and is joined by John Reid, a man who is responsible for taking us to war on a "dodgy dossier" and part of the government that almost bankrupt the Western world. Do they mention Hooper's dive against the Yams when he wasn't touched? Now that is dishonest!

UEFA/FIFA will NOT go against the referees, even if the SFA are scared to take Celtic on. Celtic, undoubtedly, have an agenda in all this and I hope it backfires on them in style.

Kaiser1962
21-11-2010, 08:11 PM
Have normally been against this but beginning to come round to something like they have in tennis. Three challenges sort of thing.
But I would argue it works both ways in that diving/simualtion is an automatic red card and should be reviewed as well. Hooper against the Yams, McGregor at ER.


Nevermind what team they support or having a strike in protest.

Pitch side tv evidence with each team able to challenge a ref's decision is the way forward. I know its been done to death but if ever there was a time to initiate this its now.

It may not solve all the problems of the game but will at least give teams and ref's a fighting chance at getting the more important decisions correct.

Jonnyboy
21-11-2010, 08:16 PM
For avoidance of any doubt, do you refer to ginger whinger 1(Strachan) or ginger whinger 2 (Lennon)...:greengrin.

I also believe the MSP is nothing more than a patsy to get Reid off the hook.

Number two - which is what NL is :greengrin

matty_f
21-11-2010, 08:19 PM
Yep .. Can't have the officials holding us to randsom... Let's follow the rules that are followed when the officials get injured or incapacitated during a game!

:agree: And also see if we can't get them to shove this strike back til the New Year derby.:greengrin

essexhibee
21-11-2010, 08:21 PM
Well done neil lennon and celtic.

****ing ginger ****. Would love for someone to lamp him.

down-the-slope
21-11-2010, 08:22 PM
I'm surprised the refs didn't decide to strike sooner. Absolutely ridiculous amount of criticism recently, especially from Celtic an Lennon. People need to realize that they are humans who make mistakes, simple as that.

Death threats and the like that have been happening recently means that this strike is completely justified, even if we unfortunately lose this weeks football.

:agree: What he said

Sooner we get to the rugby way of doing things the better.....Ref in charge..talking to captains..warnings...sin bin..position moved 10yrds for arguing desicion etc

Removed
21-11-2010, 08:25 PM
Well done neil lennon and celtic.

****ing ginger ****. Would love for someone to lamp him.

Aye that'll sort it :bitchy:

marinello59
21-11-2010, 08:25 PM
I'm sure you're not naive in your general day to day life but for you not to realise the malaise and corruption in relation to match officials in football is naive! I was 100% behind Levein in that appalling sequence of decisions against DUtd v Rangers.
He's since lost a lot of my respect after some of his recent verbal performances but ... There you go..

I believe refs make mistakes. I don't think they are corrupt. If I did I would just give up going to football altogether.
(Having a different opinion from you doesn't make you naive by the way.)

Kaiser1962
21-11-2010, 08:35 PM
I believe refs make mistakes. I don't think they are corrupt. If I did I would just give up going to football altogether.
(Having a different opinion from you doesn't make you naive by the way.)

Agree with this totally.

My sporting prowess was on a rugby field unfortunately as my love was football. However there is a lot we can learn from rugby in this regard.

H18sry
21-11-2010, 08:39 PM
This goes away back to the day Jim Farry withheld Jorge Cadette's registration, so he missed an old firm game. Fergus McCann took the SFA to court and Farry was found guilty and sacked from his job.

Celtc have believed since then that the SFA have been an institution that has been against them.

If you listen to them they believe that they can name at least 10 games a season, in which referees have given either, a decision against them or for Rankers that has cost them or gained Rankers points.

I hope the SFA call in referees from leagues such as Scandinavia and they are a roaring success and we stick with them and tell McDonald and co to stick there union.

HIBERNIAN-0762
21-11-2010, 08:41 PM
There is a the flaw in that argument, can anyone spot it?


Yip...you said it

Twa Cairpets
21-11-2010, 08:43 PM
1) The refs cannot publicly come out against Celtic. That would (in the minds of the tims) confirm Celtics viewpoint that we're all out to get them.

2) Celtic are part of an Association, it is the effective withdrawal of labour from that Association's fixtures that would force them to get their house in order.

3) Whilst the repugnant Lennon and his cronies are by far the worst of the lot, McGoo was at it yesterday, FJK has a ban at the moment to name but two others who have been critical in recent weeks.

4) Refs are an easy target to deflect flak from managers, fans and players alike. Any action taken like this is fair play as far as I'm concerned (albeit from the biased position of being a ref myself).

Twiglet
21-11-2010, 09:00 PM
Agree with this totally.

My sporting prowess was on a rugby field unfortunately as my love was football. However there is a lot we can learn from rugby in this regard.

:agree: When I was a child I would watch rugby on a Saturday afternoon with my dad and my only memory of football was watching the world cup on TV.
When I was older and started to take more of an interest in football, I remember thinking it was strange that we couldn't hear what the refs were saying to the players. Someone had to explain to me that the language would be a bit "colourful" to listen to.

In rugby the the ref lays down the law, and if the players were to go after him and harrass him to make a decision he did not believe to be true, they'd soon know who was in charge (as would managers).

Maybe we need to train some rugby refs with the rules of football and get them in charge. :wink: They woudn't be scared of any players or managers, the majority of players they deal with on a weekly basis are at least twice as big as them.

(I now have Michael McIntyres joke about the differences between rugby and football refs in my head:tee hee:).

SidBurns
21-11-2010, 09:02 PM
As usual the refs will back down. Bunch of spineless twats. But in the event they want to strike are they not covered by the same employment laws as the rest of UK workers as such I don't think they have had a secret ballot or given their employer the statutory notice of this action. Can just imagine in it now. SPL takes court action to force them to ref or worse getting Scabs in to cover for them.

Only in Scottish fitba could we have this.

Bit harsh no!?! Numerous countries referees have went on strike, Northern Ireland the most recent!!!

jdships
21-11-2010, 09:04 PM
Quite right, although I think they should target the clubs they're unhappy with and not just the one weekend.


That was my reaction as soon as I saw the announcement of the stroke.
Refuse to officiate at Celtic matches :thumbsup:

SidBurns
21-11-2010, 09:04 PM
Yes and havn't our players exercised their right about 14 times this season already.

By the way refereeing standards are at an all time low so something needs to be done...why are they any different from any other workers/proffessionals.

Keep the Faith:wink:

Examples?

HFC 0-7
21-11-2010, 09:05 PM
Cause it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to a referee, your questioning their integrity for games involving the team they might have an allegiance to or their rivals.

Grow balls...would you have the balls to take verbals and risk personal assault every week? Your speaking through complete ignorance.

Have to disagree with that. When it comes to a team you support people are biased towards them an often dont think they are. 50-50 decisions will probably go in favour of the team you support. Many associations, businesses etc prohibit people to be in a position where they can make judgements involving a party they have connections with etc.

I would like to think that I am quite fair person but if I was refereeing the scottish cup final that hibs were playing in, the occassion may be bigger than me and I could let my personal feeling towards hibs rule although not knowing it. Like it or not we make decisions based on feelings as well as what we see. If a hearts player that has previous for diving goes down in the box that you are reffing, you willl probably thinking has he dived instead of thinking, did the player foul him.

If they make it common knowledge who they support it means that managers and fans cannot use it as an excuse for bad decisions. IMO its a disclosure that wouldnt harm the game. The reason the refs wont like it is because the majority probably support the old firm meaning less high profile games for them.

HH81
21-11-2010, 09:06 PM
:grr: I have booked to come up to next weeks games too :boo hoo:

Bishop Hibee
21-11-2010, 09:08 PM
This proposed strike has come about due to the SFA not having the gumption over the years to stand up to the OF and Celtc in particular recently.

The SFA need to get reps from all SPL clubs and a representation from the SFL around the table and sort this fiasco out. Celtc need to be told in no uncertain terms that unless they sign whatever agreement is reached, they'll be dealt a series of escalating sanctions which would culminate in expulsion from Scottish football.

Sad that it should need the refs to be forced into this position to make matters come to a head but in this case, as in most cases, those driven to the last resort of strike action are in the right.

ScottB
21-11-2010, 09:09 PM
:agree: When I was a child I would watch rugby on a Saturday afternoon with my dad and my only memory of football was watching the world cup on TV.
When I was older and started to take more of an interest in football, I remember thinking it was strange that we couldn't hear what the refs were saying to the players. Someone had to explain to me that the language would be a bit "colourful" to listen to.

In rugby the the ref lays down the law, and if the players were to go after him and harrass him to make a decision he did not believe to be true, they'd soon know who was in charge (as would managers).

Maybe we need to train some rugby refs with the rules of football and get them in charge. :wink: They woudn't be scared of any players or managers, the majority of players they deal with on a weekly basis are at least twice as big as them.

(I now have Michael McIntyres joke about the differences between rugby and football refs in my head:tee hee:).

Very much so, though I suppose it's as much to do with the players of both sports 'traditional' backgrounds.

I'd agree with micing the ref up, and only allowing team captains to approach officials, anybody else doing so is an instant yellow card.

Refs need authority to function as much as anything.

marinello59
21-11-2010, 09:09 PM
Have to disagree with that. When it comes to a team you support people are biased towards them an often dont think they are. 50-50 decisions will probably go in favour of the team you support. Many associations, businesses etc prohibit people to be in a position where they can make judgements involving a party they have connections with etc.

I would like to think that I am quite fair person but if I was refereeing the scottish cup final that hibs were playing in, the occassion may be bigger than me and I could let my personal feeling towards hibs rule although not knowing it. Like it or not we make decisions based on feelings as well as what we see. If a hearts player that has previous for diving goes down in the box that you are reffing, you willl probably thinking has he dived instead of thinking, did the player foul him.

If they make it common knowledge who they support it means that managers and fans cannot use it as an excuse for bad decisions. IMO its a disclosure that wouldnt harm the game. The reason the refs wont like it is because the majority probably support the old firm meaning less high profile games for them.

So even less people will come forward to be referees. That is hardly going to raise standards.

SMAXXA
21-11-2010, 09:11 PM
Im surprised its taken as long as it has to be honest, I said this to a mate a couple of weeks ago that this will be what happens. Im 100% in support of the refs and think its ridiculas the stick they have taken in recent weeks. Yes some of it is justified but why cant these things be dealt with behing closed doors i.e managers voicing their annoyance at a decision and be done with it, not coming out running to the press about it. Ironically its the managers and associated people with clubs that need to take a look at their actions in order to improve the situation, as for me their contrabution in all this has resulted in this action.

One thing that does reek out of all this is that it seems to me there is 1 common denominator in all this, Celtic Football Club. IMO their actions recently have been inexcusable, players / manager / directors etc coming out and publicly slating refs, impling its a conspirecy against their club etc, and that statement the other day from that bafoon Reid and Lennon calling for an individual to be sacked from their profession due to a mistake / error of judgement was the finaal nail in the coffin.

Who out of all the people you know could you say would want to be a refferee, its a thankless task and one im sure 99% of them do their job to the best of their ability, yeah they may not all be great but its the best we currently have so get on with it, but to question their integrity is beyond me.

Im no great fan of refs generally and have seen some howlers of decisions been made for and against us in the past but the current level of abuse IMO is not right and they are entitled to take this course of action.

woody47
21-11-2010, 09:12 PM
No support here for the refs.

They want to pick their ****ing dummies up as if they have a beef it is against the **** through in west of the green colour they should be boycotting their home games only. They should NOT be taking the hump with every other team. :grr:

Danderhall Hibs
21-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Examples?

Does he need to provide them? I took it as his interpretation of the situation. I'm sure he's not lying and is calling it as he sees it...

SidBurns
21-11-2010, 09:21 PM
Does he need to provide them? I took it as his interpretation of the situation. I'm sure he's not lying and is calling it as he sees it...

As do the referees...

marinello59
21-11-2010, 09:21 PM
:grr: I have booked to come up to next weeks games too :boo hoo:

Just come up anyway. At least your day out won't be ruined by watching Hibs play football.:agree:

Saorsa
21-11-2010, 09:22 PM
Just come up anyway. At least your day out won't be ruined by watching Hibs play football.:agree:and he can still buy me a pint :greengrin :cheers:

Danderhall Hibs
21-11-2010, 09:22 PM
As do the referees...

Just think you should give the guy some respect.

pogo
21-11-2010, 09:25 PM
I'm booked to come over next weekend for the first time in about 2 years:boo hoo:

Hope this doesn't happen next weekend!!!

SidBurns
21-11-2010, 09:28 PM
Just think you should give the guy some respect.

After this:-

No support here for the refs.

They want to pick their ****ing dummies up as if they have a beef it is against the **** through in west of the green colour they should be boycotting their home games only. They should NOT be taking the hump with every other team.

As a referee myself I find this disrespectful but will delete my post as it has obviously offended you...

HH81
21-11-2010, 09:29 PM
Just come up anyway. At least your day out won't be ruined by watching Hibs play football.:agree:

Oh I will be doing, no point wasting money on the train and hotel.

HH81
21-11-2010, 09:30 PM
and he can still buy me a pint :greengrin :cheers:

Indeed, One pint of Tennents heading your way :greengrin

Saorsa
21-11-2010, 09:31 PM
Indeed, One pint of Tennents heading your way :greengrin:grr:


:greengrin

Pedantic_Hibee
21-11-2010, 09:40 PM
I'm booked to come over next weekend for the first time in about 2 years:boo hoo:

Hope this doesn't happen next weekend!!!

Similarly, I'm booked to come up as well, was so looking forward to sampling the new East Stand :grr::grr::grr::grr:

frazeHFC
21-11-2010, 09:46 PM
:grr:Was looking forward to it aswell :grr: The only person i am blaming is Lennon, ginger twat.

.Sean.
21-11-2010, 09:49 PM
I don't think they will strike.

Danderhall Hibs
21-11-2010, 09:56 PM
After this:-

No support here for the refs.

They want to pick their ****ing dummies up as if they have a beef it is against the **** through in west of the green colour they should be boycotting their home games only. They should NOT be taking the hump with every other team.

As a referee myself I find this disrespectful but will delete my post as it has obviously offended you...

:greengrin You've clearly missed the point I'm getting at.

It seems that we've to accept refereeing mistakes because "they're honest" and "call it as they see it". And because they are refs they should "get our respect".

In real life if someone makes a mistake every time they do their job they'd get very little respect and likely wouldn't be doing the job for long.

SidBurns
21-11-2010, 10:09 PM
:greengrin You've clearly missed the point I'm getting at.

It seems that we've to accept refereeing mistakes because "they're honest" and "call it as they see it". And because they are refs they should "get our respect".

In real life if someone makes a mistake every time they do their job they'd get very little respect and likely wouldn't be doing the job for long.

I accept that players can make mistakes, play the wrong pass, miss a chance etc, it happens, it's life. IMO this should be the same for referees. As regards respect, I agree with you, referees, as everyone else, should (in theory) have to EARN respect. Why in rugby do the players respect referees from the start though? We could DEFO learn something from these guys IMO once more...

Again I agree with you, it someone made a mistake everytime they done their job then the should be pulled up for it but, and this is a BIG but, how many of these people have a split second to make a decision!?!

Gatecrasher
21-11-2010, 10:20 PM
I don't know if this has been posted yet (probably has) but the SFA should have hammered celtc much earlier, its pathetic to blame the refs every time you lose. Thats what celtc have been doing.

i don't blame the refs, they are the ones taking the abuse, they are now putting the SFA in a position where the NEED to do something.

Also i may be wrong here but in the decision that kicked this off, the correct decision:confused:

if so WTF is all the moaning about :confused:

Removed
21-11-2010, 10:25 PM
My tuppence worth.

For years we all have said that too many decisions go for the Old Firm no matter who and where they are playing, and we Hibbys have a view that certain refs are biased against us, and other non old firm teams will no doubt feel the same way. Often even we say this perceived bias is because of who they are or where they came from.

I don't think our refs are any better or worse than refs from any other league in the world. Because we are a small country I think there is far too much pressure on our refs - fans, managers, media, phone ins, local pubs, supermarket, schools, etc. They can't get away from the neanderthals of Celtc and Rangers and because of the decisions the refs are either a proddie or a tim or a Hun or Sellick fan. Remember Dallas had his house attacked and other refs have suffered threats etc so no wonder they feel the strain, I wouldn't want that myself.

No easy way to sort out so time to move on I think. Bring in refs from down south or abroad for all SPL games. Look what happens at Ibrox or Parkhead in Euro games, refs are not intimidated by the crowd or reputations and we get a fairer game imo. Teams have even been known to get pens against them!!

I'm sure if that happened then both sets of the Old Firm management and fans would be clamouring to get Scottish refs back again.

BEEJ
21-11-2010, 10:31 PM
Well done the smellies for causing this totally ridiculous situation, they're constant sniping and moaning to get their own way has now jumped up and bit them in the bum, why don't they just shut the fk up and get on with the game of football?, that cretin Reid should be held to account by the rest of the SPL teams as revenue will be lost due to the cancellation of next weekends game


The ridiculous aspect of this is that Celtc might benefit out of a strike. They have a deeper squad than any of the other teams (including the Huns) and would be better able to cope with a more tightly packed schedule.
Indeed. The infuriating part of the BBC article is this IMHO:


BBC Scotland has also learned that the Glasgow club [Celtic] would welcome the strike.

It is understood Celtic hope that it could lead to a wider independent investigation and want Uefa to intervene in what they think is a refereeing crisis.

So they welcome the strike while Hibs would have to give up an all-too-rare Saturday 3pm home fixture? :bitchy: The alternative midweek date will not attract as big a crowd so who will compensate us and other clubs for the inevitable shortfall in income?

greenlex
21-11-2010, 10:36 PM
Maybe they could strike the rest of this year and let CC get rid of some of the poorer players in the Jan Window without them doing any more damage.

Sir David Gray
21-11-2010, 10:49 PM
I don't see why the other 11 sides should have to suffer when we all know who the real culprits are.

The referee put in charge of any Celtic game from now on should inform the SFA that they are not prepared to officiate in the game and let the rest of us get on with things as normal. Celtic, along with Rangers, are far better placed to cope with any lost revenue that a strike would bring. Teams like Hamilton, St Mirren and Kilmarnock need all the money that they can get and it would really harm their finances if they had to call a home game off.

Celtic, and Neil Lennon in particular, should be forced to offer an apology for the way that they have conducted themselves so far this season and state that any further criticism that they do make will be restrained.

Hopefully that would draw a line under the whole thing and we can move on.

Celtic FC - GTF.

My hatred towards them grows with every passing day.

Twa Cairpets
21-11-2010, 10:51 PM
:greengrin You've clearly missed the point I'm getting at.

It seems that we've to accept refereeing mistakes because "they're honest" and "call it as they see it". And because they are refs they should "get our respect".

In real life if someone makes a mistake every time they do their job they'd get very little respect and likely wouldn't be doing the job for long.

Accepting any errors that are made as honest is the first step - it doesnt "earn respect", whatever that means. Players in the refs face from the whistle, managers screaming at linesman, refs, 4th officials for pathetic reasons is not, shall we say, engendering an atmosphere of tolerance.

It is a myth that every game is strewn with mistakes as well. Watch any game from aneutral viewpoint, and its astonishing how suddenly the ref seems to get most calls right. I've hurled abuse at refs for perpetrating the most appaling injustices on Hibs, then watched the highights and guess what - they were 100% correct. Case in point 'Wells penalty last weekend - looked an absolutely fine tackle from where I was, but the ref was spot on.

Finally, the amount of guff that gets hurled at refs from supporters (and pundits/commentators/summarisers etc) because they dont know the laws is astonishing. There is no "last man" law. "Getting the ball" does not necessarily mean a tackle is legal. A ball hitting an arm is not automatically a free kick ot a booking. Loads of stuff.

If you're looking for referees to be correct 100% of the time then it aint going to happen for any number of reasons. However, "In the opinion of the referee" is a common phrase in the laws of the game. just because you disagree with a decision doesnt make it incorrect.

BroxburnHibee
21-11-2010, 10:52 PM
Not in the least surprised at this news. Celtc's pish over the last few weeks has been outrageous.

Before we get on our high horse though it might be worthwhile remembering that all us experts in the stands get it wrong as well.

The abuse directed at Dougie McDonald last week after giving that penalty was ridiculous.

I remember the DU game last season when we were all certain a penalty that Hogg had gave away was the worst refereeing decision ever until we all saw the replays.

I learnt my lesson that night and we could all think about it a bit before we vent our spleens.

For the life of me I fail to see any positives in doing that job for a living.

blairwallace
21-11-2010, 10:58 PM
i have a referee certificate and I would happly ref the match for hibs :wink:

PaulSmith
21-11-2010, 11:03 PM
Anyone care to guess what Celtic's 'end game' is here. What is John Reid and the PLC Board that run Celtic really trying to achieve.

Are they trying to get rid of Dallas and McDonald to be replaced by whom?

Are they trying to convince UEFA that they are victims within Scotland and therefore they should be allowed to play in another country..i.e. England?

There is no way this is not orchestrated from the very top to achieve something and I would bet that it's the latter IMO.

NORTHERNHIBBY
21-11-2010, 11:08 PM
i have a referee certificate and I would happly ref the match for hibs :wink:

But are you Celtc minded? That would appear to be the pre-requisite nowadays.

woody47
21-11-2010, 11:10 PM
I accept that players can make mistakes, play the wrong pass, miss a chance etc, it happens, it's life. IMO this should be the same for referees. As regards respect, I agree with you, referees, as everyone else, should (in theory) have to EARN respect. Why in rugby do the players respect referees from the start though? We could DEFO learn something from these guys IMO once more...

Again I agree with you, it someone made a mistake everytime they done their job then the should be pulled up for it but, and this is a BIG but, how many of these people have a split second to make a decision!?!

Its not the fact they make mistakes, we all do, but the fact that time after time they do not admit it and close ranks. That is the reason for so much hostility against refs.

tbfhibs
21-11-2010, 11:14 PM
If push comes to shove, I dinnae mind volunteering to ref our game against St Johnstone.:agree:
I'll be the linesman:wink:

blairwallace
21-11-2010, 11:26 PM
But are you Celtc minded? That would appear to be the pre-requisite nowadays.

I do not follow any certain SPL team :greengrin

Bishop Hibee
21-11-2010, 11:32 PM
If memory serves me correctly, George Smith, a ref from Edinburgh who went to Holy Cross with my dad was a Hibby. It was always reckoned he was more biased against Hibs when he reffed our games :grr:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Smith_(referee)

No need for refs to declare who they support as it only fuels the conspiracy theorists' fire.

I do believe there was institutional bias in favour of Rangers in the SFA in the past. This was most blatant regarding the blind eye turned to their policy of refusing to sign Roman Catholics. However the influential figures in Scottish society who are Celtic fans shows that this influence has waned. Celtc are merely deflecting from their own inadequacies. Dougie McDonald was a fool to lie as he did and the SFA should have got rid of him in my opinion but the pressure refs are under from the OF and Celtic in particular is ridiculous.

Westie1875
21-11-2010, 11:41 PM
Neil Lennon & Celtc are firmly to blame for this, yes everyone has a go at refs from time to time but the constant tirades from them over the past few weeks have gone way beyond the normal moans and groans. I find it astonishing that the SFA have just been letting it lie and haven't fined them yet for bringing the game into disrepute.

As others have said, punish the smellies, not all of us. I will be raging if the game is off this weekend and I hope the other spl teams speak out against Lennon and his paranoia club. :grr:

blackpoolhibs
21-11-2010, 11:44 PM
Refs should accept a bit of stick from the fans, rightly or wrongly we get excited during the games and let off steam, sometimes at them, sometimes at players and sometimes at managers.

There's only one club who hire private detectives, or want clarification on what team they support. Or put so much pressure on them before during and after, that they want to strike. Some of these refs fear for their own safety because of Celtics action, not any other teams just Celtic. There's only one team to blame, but we are all being tarred with the same brush. :grr:

snooky
22-11-2010, 12:35 AM
Accepting any errors that are made as honest is the first step - it doesnt "earn respect", whatever that means. Players in the refs face from the whistle, managers screaming at linesman, refs, 4th officials for pathetic reasons is not, shall we say, engendering an atmosphere of tolerance.

It is a myth that every game is strewn with mistakes as well. Watch any game from aneutral viewpoint, and its astonishing how suddenly the ref seems to get most calls right. I've hurled abuse at refs for perpetrating the most appaling injustices on Hibs, then watched the highights and guess what - they were 100% correct. Case in point 'Wells penalty last weekend - looked an absolutely fine tackle from where I was, but the ref was spot on.

Finally, the amount of guff that gets hurled at refs from supporters (and pundits/commentators/summarisers etc) because they dont know the laws is astonishing. There is no "last man" law. "Getting the ball" does not necessarily mean a tackle is legal. A ball hitting an arm is not automatically a free kick ot a booking. Loads of stuff.

If you're looking for referees to be correct 100% of the time then it aint going to happen for any number of reasons. However, "In the opinion of the referee" is a common phrase in the laws of the game. just because you disagree with a decision doesnt make it incorrect.
When I was involved in coaching under 12's some years ago I use to tell the players that the referee was there to make a decision. It sometimes may not be the correct one however, accept it and get on with the game. It's a shame senior managers and players don't adopt the same mantra.

ps: Please ignore all previous posts I have made in the past slagging the standard of referees we have in the SPL. :embarrass

silverhibee
22-11-2010, 12:47 AM
If the refs were to go on strike next weekend could it maybe go in Hibs favour regarding Riordans suspension, if they strike, does Deek miss the replay against St Johnstone, or miss the next game Hibs play, or Hibs could argue that it was not there fault that the game never went ahead and that Riordans suspension should be dismissed.

1875godsgift
22-11-2010, 01:54 AM
My tuppence worth.

For years we all have said that too many decisions go for the Old Firm no matter who and where they are playing, and we Hibbys have a view that certain refs are biased against us, and other non old firm teams will no doubt feel the same way. Often even we say this perceived bias is because of who they are or where they came from.

I don't think our refs are any better or worse than refs from any other league in the world. Because we are a small country I think there is far too much pressure on our refs - fans, managers, media, phone ins, local pubs, supermarket, schools, etc. They can't get away from the neanderthals of Celtc and Rangers and because of the decisions the refs are either a proddie or a tim or a Hun or Sellick fan. Remember Dallas had his house attacked and other refs have suffered threats etc so no wonder they feel the strain, I wouldn't want that myself.

No easy way to sort out so time to move on I think. Bring in refs from down south or abroad for all SPL games. Look what happens at Ibrox or Parkhead in Euro games, refs are not intimidated by the crowd or reputations and we get a fairer game imo. Teams have even been known to get pens against them!!

I'm sure if that happened then both sets of the Old Firm management and fans would be clamouring to get Scottish refs back again.

Completely agree with this, take the pressure of the Scottish referees and bring in hopefully impartial ones. I'm absolutely sick of the sight of rangers/celtc players surrounding and abusing the referee at every decision, any other team doing that would be yellow carded immediately. Granny weir is one of the worst culprits, the amount of times he gets away with grabbing players by the throat?!

hibsboy90
22-11-2010, 03:43 AM
Could, with the agreement of all 12 spl clubs, the fixtures go ahead, with category 2 referees?

Or would it be the case, which i presume it is, that part of the membership and rules of the spl are that all matches played under the spl banner are to be cat. 1 referees (possibly, unless unanimous agreement by all clubs)

Lucius Apuleius
22-11-2010, 05:48 AM
Lots of arguments for lots of different scenarios all given here. Personal viewpoint is I cannot for the life of me blame them. This season especially seems to have been horrific in ref abuse, mainly from the mhanky mob,but others as well, Butcher, Houston, Yogi, CC, Adam. Will it happen? Doubt it very much. Having said that as far as I am aware we have not gone full time referees in Scotland yet so these guys probably don't need the not insignificant amount of money they get for the game. Would be pretty sad and further demean Scottish football in the eyes of the world. If however it had a positive impact and something was done against people perpetrating the abuse and accusations then it would probably be a good thing in the long run. Hidden agenda from Cheltc??/ Without a doubt.

On a personal note pretty peed off as I come home tomorrow and due to other commitments it looks like Saturday is the only game I was going to get to.:grr:

Kaiser1962
22-11-2010, 06:46 AM
The bit in bold and the Hibs-Motherwell game recently.

The man of the moment, Dougie McDonald, is known to be a hibby and was in charge of this game. Early on he gave a (softish) penalty against Hibs which, had it been given against Motherwell would have proved your point, but he gave it against Hibs. Same game Motherwell score late-ish on a perfectly good goal which is ruled offside by his linesman. So which is it?
The recent Rantic game was refereed by Willie Collum, a Celtic fan, who is castigated for giving a penalty decision AGAINST Celtic! Again a soft decision but hardly any evidence of bias TOWARDS the team you support.


Have to disagree with that. When it comes to a team you support people are biased towards them an often dont think they are. 50-50 decisions will probably go in favour of the team you support. Many associations, businesses etc prohibit people to be in a position where they can make judgements involving a party they have connections with etc.

I would like to think that I am quite fair person but if I was refereeing the scottish cup final that hibs were playing in, the occassion may be bigger than me and I could let my personal feeling towards hibs rule although not knowing it. Like it or not we make decisions based on feelings as well as what we see. If a hearts player that has previous for diving goes down in the box that you are reffing, you willl probably thinking has he dived instead of thinking, did the player foul him.

If they make it common knowledge who they support it means that managers and fans cannot use it as an excuse for bad decisions. IMO its a disclosure that wouldnt harm the game. The reason the refs wont like it is because the majority probably support the old firm meaning less high profile games for them.

Phil MaGlass
22-11-2010, 08:07 AM
Thing is Scottish refs have already came out and said they are intimidated by Parkhead and Ibrox and would be more likely to give decisions for the home team, so we have to bring in foreign refs and Celtic should be deducted points. Problem solved.
Even if refs are in charge of games with their favourite club, i find it really hard to believe they would give them any help in a game. They are scrutinised from all angles nowadays, its difficult to be biased, although ref standards may have gone down in recent years, (in some folks eyes) I still think the overall standard is better than what some are trying to make out. The smallest mistake is blown out of proportion and god help any ref that makes a big mistake.Sellik should have the book thrown at them over this.

Green_one
22-11-2010, 08:21 AM
Neil Lennon & Celtc are firmly to blame for this, yes everyone has a go at refs from time to time but the constant tirades from them over the past few weeks have gone way beyond the normal moans and groans. I find it astonishing that the SFA have just been letting it lie and haven't fined them yet for bringing the game into disrepute.

As others have said, punish the smellies, not all of us. I will be raging if the game is off this weekend and I hope the other spl teams speak out against Lennon and his paranoia club. :grr:

Lets not miss the fact that Hearts have been a little naughty lately too:greengrin

Serious action against Celtic and Lennon but just to show no biaise, lets fine the **** out of Hearts too. :devil:

down the slope
22-11-2010, 08:30 AM
I wonder how Reid would feel if someone stood up and called him a dickhead at one of his press conferences ?, this is what his manager was seen to shout at the ref at Tyncastle as he was sent to the stand. Lennon has a lot to answer for as his actions if they were to happen in the street could get him arrested but by Celtics now low standards this alright, the ref's get a hard time and i for one would never do their job but ref's have always made mistakes and the difference now is players and managers reactions to any decision that goes against them. We maybe need to look at how rugby treats it's referees with only the captain allowed to speak to the ref's to query why a decision was made. John Reid and Lennon have brought the game in to disrepute and they should be deducted points for this blatant example of bullying officials to their own ends and if they don't like it go and play somewhere else, we don't need you.

Hibs Class
22-11-2010, 08:31 AM
If the refs were to go on strike next weekend could it maybe go in Hibs favour regarding Riordans suspension, if they strike, does Deek miss the replay against St Johnstone, or miss the next game Hibs play, or Hibs could argue that it was not there fault that the game never went ahead and that Riordans suspension should be dismissed.

Riordan misses Hibs first SPL match after 21 Nov (as that date was 14 days after the match in which he was sent off). If the St J game is postponed t means he then misses our next match after that.

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 08:35 AM
Its not the fact they make mistakes, we all do, but the fact that time after time they do not admit it and close ranks. That is the reason for so much hostility against refs.

Unfortunately Referees are not allowed to speak to the media before or after matches. Any mistakes will no doubt be in the Match Report which is kept away from cameras, players, managers etc.

Until this ban is lifted this will no change.

truehibernian
22-11-2010, 08:46 AM
The simple solution, as it will always be, is to assist the ref's with video refereeing/decision making. Set a marker down and make it that the SPL (only 6 games) will trial it for a season.

If Chick and his colleagues can watch instant replays whilst at the game, giving their thoughts, and all this while the game is going on, why on earth is there a difficulty for the SFA/SPL to try it out. There is not a cost issue because all SPL clubs have the playback facility. There is not any issue with time added on, because that is exactly what it says, time added on. They add on for subs and injuries, why not important decisions. Will the game take a lot longer to finish. Not if you are clear in what you use the TV evidence for. It takes literally 15/20 seconds to check for a sending off offence, an offside/onside goal, ball over the line, penalty decisions. These are really the only decisions that will rile support, players and management, and then there would be no need to collude in ref's reports, explain away decisions to managers/media.

If you spend money to go to watch a top level football match, is there really an issue whether there is 2 minutes or 8 minutes added on, as long as there is fairness. There will be an argument for policing costs probably if games are kept going. Have to say, I would imagine many of the policng operations and shifts have a contingency if things go pear shaped and I cannot see them going home like we do immediately after the whistle.

Like all things in life though, the simple solution is always a million miles away from fruition.

number9dream
22-11-2010, 08:54 AM
I can't see the refs backing down before Saturday.

They want to make a point, it's not like they are after something tangible like more cash, and all clubs and fans will be punished.

I think there are around 33 category one refs, with maybe 15 up and coming category two geezers and they are unlikely to break ranks with their senior colleagues.

The SFA can't go any lower than that for officials. They could maybe fly in some Irish refs for SPL games since they are not playing at the moment but can you imagine the reaction from Rangers? It would be hilarious!

Refs want Celtic to back off but Celtic are loving this, so where will it end up?

Spike Mandela
22-11-2010, 09:00 AM
Once the referee's honesty and integrity is constantly being questioned and ridiculed on a weekly basis they have to make a stand.

Being ridiculed by that buffoon at Celtic jumping up and down on the touchline like a baboon. spewing vitreol and expletives all the while being backed by his chairman is bad enough.

Then notions like declaring the team you supported as a boy being touted are probably the sort of ideas that broke the camel's back. A referee has to be allowed to carry out his job professionally with neutrality and fully without any prejudice.

We should give them our loud and full backing because without them our weekend's are empty.

Betty Boop
22-11-2010, 09:04 AM
I thought you had to give notice for a ballot, and also further notice of strike action ? :confused:

Kaiser1962
22-11-2010, 09:06 AM
Video is an option but I have seen a studio panel of five "pundits" split 3-2 against a penalty awarded in a game. Those against said it was "never in a million years" and those for "stonewaller". What I am saying is somebody, somewhere has to decide so the onus will shift from the "ref" to the "video ref" with the same charges leveled against them.

It is not the integrity of the ref's or officials that is in question but that of the conduct and honesty of the player's and manager's of clubs.


The simple solution, as it will always be, is to assist the ref's with video refereeing/decision making. Set a marker down and make it that the SPL (only 6 games) will trial it for a season.

If Chick and his colleagues can watch instant replays whilst at the game, giving their thoughts, and all this while the game is going on, why on earth is there a difficulty for the SFA/SPL to try it out. There is not a cost issue because all SPL clubs have the playback facility. There is not any issue with time added on, because that is exactly what it says, time added on. They add on for subs and injuries, why not important decisions. Will the game take a lot longer to finish. Not if you are clear in what you use the TV evidence for. It takes literally 15/20 seconds to check for a sending off offence, an offside/onside goal, ball over the line, penalty decisions. These are really the only decisions that will rile support, players and management, and then there would be no need to collude in ref's reports, explain away decisions to managers/media.

If you spend money to go to watch a top level football match, is there really an issue whether there is 2 minutes or 8 minutes added on, as long as there is fairness. There will be an argument for policing costs probably if games are kept going. Have to say, I would imagine many of the policng operations and shifts have a contingency if things go pear shaped and I cannot see them going home like we do immediately after the whistle.

Like all things in life though, the simple solution is always a million miles away from fruition.

Steve-O
22-11-2010, 09:21 AM
Agree with the refs on this one. Celtic should be fined as well for bringing the game into disrepute. Absolute fuds with their conspiracy pish.

ballengeich
22-11-2010, 09:31 AM
I thought you had to give notice for a ballot, and also further notice of strike action ? :confused:

They're not direct employees of the SFA so this doesn't apply. I think they're just employed on a game by game basis, like you or me getting a plumber for a particular job.

I hope that the managers and players will reconsider how they behave in future, regardless of whether the strike actually goes ahead. The abuse referees get when they usually make fewer mistakes than any of the players is unacceptable.

Twa Cairpets
22-11-2010, 09:38 AM
Unfortunately Referees are not allowed to speak to the media before or after matches. Any mistakes will no doubt be in the Match Report which is kept away from cameras, players, managers etc.

Until this ban is lifted this will no change.

Totally disagree. (Opinions, eh!)

The minute a referee seeks to explain a controversial decision, it becomes fuel to the conspiracists. "In my opinion the contact was minimal and therefore I didnt award a penalty" becomes "how wasn't he booked for diving?" or "he's wrong, clear penalty, obviously biased - he even admitted there was contact".

Trying to explain becomes perceived as trying to justify, which is a very different thing.

Even at a lower level, on public parks, trying to explain a decision after a game becomes an exercise in trying to calm someone down.. People just don't want to listen. They've already pre-judged and are just looking to vent their frustration. It would be exactly the same for senior refs but on a wider scale.

Golden Bear
22-11-2010, 09:42 AM
They're not direct employees of the SFA so this doesn't apply. I think they're just employed on a game by game basis, like you or me getting a plumber for a particular job.

I hope that the managers and players will reconsider how they behave in future, regardless of whether the strike actually goes ahead. The abuse referees get when they usually make fewer mistakes than any of the players is unacceptable.

:agree:

The players can help the Refs as well by behaving like responsible adults rather than petulant kids.

Not to mention the blatent attempt at cheating which we see in every game regardless of the Clubs involved.

Golden Bear
22-11-2010, 10:11 AM
According to the Beeb news, Celtic FC would apparently "welcome" a strike as they believe it would prompt a wider investigation!

The SFA should dock that joke of a Club 30 points for bringing the game into disrepute. It looks as though they think themselves as beyond reproach and it's time they were brought back into line otherwise the reputation of the Scottish game will sink even further.

Hibs Class
22-11-2010, 10:16 AM
According to the Beeb news, Celtic FC would apparently "welcome" a strike as they believe it would prompt a wider investigation!

The SFA should dock that joke of a Club 30 points for bringing the game into disrepute. It looks as though they think themselves as beyond reproach and it's time they were brought back into line otherwise the reputation of the Scottish game will sink even further.

Sadly a 30 point deduction would probablty still see them finish second this season. A more suitable sanction would be to ban them from this season's Scottish Cup and to suspend them from taking up a Scottish place in Europe until they learn how to conduct themselves properly domestically.

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 10:17 AM
If the refs were to go on strike next weekend could it maybe go in Hibs favour regarding Riordans suspension, if they strike, does Deek miss the replay against St Johnstone, or miss the next game Hibs play, or Hibs could argue that it was not there fault that the game never went ahead and that Riordans suspension should be dismissed.

It would go onto the next league game. Think you are being unduly optimistic thinking his suspension would be dismissed. :greengrin

Danderhall Hibs
22-11-2010, 10:20 AM
A ball hitting an arm is not automatically a free kick ot a booking. Loads of stuff.


Fair point - there was someone on here the other week saying Nani (Man U) deliberately touching the ball with his hand shouldn't have been a free-kick to Spurs. Can't remember why though just that he's allowed to do it.


Its not the fact they make mistakes, we all do, but the fact that time after time they do not admit it and close ranks. That is the reason for so much hostility against refs.

That's the main problem I have with refs - now and again they'll admit a mistake but they can't be seen to do it too often or they're at risk of being called incompetent. Then their supervisors and that always defend them - fair enough that they defend their staff but they shouldn't just do it as a matter of course.

Golden Bear
22-11-2010, 10:21 AM
Sadly a 30 point deduction would probablty still see them finish second this season. A more suitable sanction would be to ban them from this season's Scottish Cup and to suspend them from taking up a Scottish place in Europe until they learn how to conduct themselves properly domestically.


:agree:

Not a bad idea. They SFA will need to do something that's for sure. If it was say East Stirling rather than Celtic then I'm sure they would have acted by now.

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 10:21 AM
Totally disagree. (Opinions, eh!)

The minute a referee seeks to explain a controversial decision, it becomes fuel to the conspiracists. "In my opinion the contact was minimal and therefore I didnt award a penalty" becomes "how wasn't he booked for diving?" or "he's wrong, clear penalty, obviously biased - he even admitted there was contact".

Trying to explain becomes perceived as trying to justify, which is a very different thing.

Even at a lower level, on public parks, trying to explain a decision after a game becomes an exercise in trying to calm someone down.. People just don't want to listen. They've already pre-judged and are just looking to vent their frustration. It would be exactly the same for senior refs but on a wider scale.

Surely the middle ground is to properly implement the whistleblower system on the SFA website where the referee could explain particularly contentious decisions on the Monday unfortunately that particular line of communication appears to have been ignored.

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 10:26 AM
Personal opinion the SFA should publicly charge Celtic for bringing the game into disrepute for their ridiculous comments including Hopper, Lennon and Reid. If Dallas has been compromised with the Pope email he should be removed and replaced.

The refs should get over themselves a bit are they going to recompense clubs who will no doubt lose out for having to play the games on a Winter midweek rather than a weekend game. They now apparently get between 800 and 1k to ref a game so IMO do well out of the game. There was also something not right IMO about Stuart Dougal being the mouthpiece for refs given how appalling a referee this guy was.

bighairyfaeleith
22-11-2010, 10:35 AM
I have an interest in a couple of retail units in the Ocean Terminal mall and I see the world go by.When I visit now and again.In a previous life I had a query regarding a ruling that was the subject of debate on this forum. I bumped into George smith outside Boots. He answered my question and I posted the answer on here.. Can't remember what the question was but I couldn't help myself quizzing him on the question separately on the question of refs making decisions against teams they support. I can honestly say that he convinced me that when he was reffing he blanked any loyalty out and gave decisions on a completely neutral basis.Now... That's what he said and I believed that he believed what he said. I personally think it would be extremely hard not to favour youbiyhood heroes.:agree:

Thing is, once your boyhood hero fans started giving you abuse for a decision any loyalties would soon evaporate.

Twa Cairpets
22-11-2010, 10:36 AM
Fair point - there was someone on here the other week saying Nani (Man U) deliberately touching the ball with his hand shouldn't have been a free-kick to Spurs. Can't remember why though just that he's allowed to do it.
In that instance the handling (assuming it was seen by the referee) was an offence that could have been puished with the award of a free kick. The decision in that instance was to allow play to continue as the ball was in the hands of the keeper and therefore there was an advantage to Spurs. the fact the keeper made a rickets of it afterwards is neither here nor there.


That's the main problem I have with refs - now and again they'll admit a mistake but they can't be seen to do it too often or they're at risk of being called incompetent. Then their supervisors and that always defend them - fair enough that they defend their staff but they shouldn't just do it as a matter of course.

The number of times you will see an individual ref or supervisor comment on a game or an incident is tiny, so I cant see where you're getting this from. The apparent policy is one of "no comment", which while it may be frustrating for some people I think is largely the right one.

Danderhall Hibs
22-11-2010, 10:48 AM
In that instance the handling (assuming it was seen by the referee) was an offence that could have been puished with the award of a free kick. The decision in that instance was to allow play to continue as the ball was in the hands of the keeper and therefore there was an advantage to Spurs. the fact the keeper made a rickets of it afterwards is neither here nor there.

If that "hand-ball" wasn't seen by the ref then I think we've got to the root of the problem! As I said there was a big thred on here about it and one of the qualified referees said i's allowed - I think he even went as far to say you could pick the ball up and run with it as long as you didn't mean to do it. Or at least if the ref thought you didn't mean to do it. That was his interpretation IIRC. :greengrin



The number of times you will see an individual ref or supervisor comment on a game or an incident is tiny, so I cant see where you're getting this from. The apparent policy is one of "no comment", which while it may be frustrating for some people I think is largely the right one.

Real Radio used to the guy that used to do Hugh Dallas' job on to explain and all he'd ever do was say stuff around interpretation and other get out stuff. Sky get Dermot Gallagher on now and again as well - TBF to him now and again he will say the ref was wrong but mainly will close ranks.

Expecting Rain
22-11-2010, 10:48 AM
I couldn`t care less about the refs in the SPL, they are all useless and their assistants are even worse, as for Celtic the main culprit is Lennon, i don`t think going by his post match comments anybody has ever scored a legitimate goal against his team.
The SFA if they were a serious organisation should throw the book at him and the likes of Lafferty and McGregor for continually bringing the game into disrepute and i don`t mean by handing out fines, start giving them 15 match suspensions and they`ll get it from their employers as well for being liabilities.:grr:

Twa Cairpets
22-11-2010, 10:48 AM
Thing is, once your boyhood hero fans started giving you abuse for a decision any loyalties would soon evaporate.

This is a good point.

When you referee a game, you switch into "ref mode". The teams on the pitch become largely immaterial.

I've reffed Hibs supporters v Hearts supporters in the past, with mates playing for Hibs - once the game starts it just becomes two teams. In the past, I've reffed games for the youth team I coached (including my son playing) when a ref hasn't pitched up, and have immediately been able to become entirely neutral, and I reckon 95% of all referes and 100% of the senior list guys would do this too.

Don't get me wrong, there are games when one team or the other are such an unremittingly neanderthal bunch of bawbags that you really, really hope they don't win, but you absolutely dont sink to their level to try to influence the outcome by being biased.

At youth or amateur level, the one thing to say to a referee that is a red rag to a bull is to accuse them of being biased or cheating. How it must be to be accused of this at a public, national level I would assume is the main reason behind the proposed action.

If the referees came out and accused particular players or clubs of cheating on an organised, institutional basis can you imagine what the reaction would be?

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2010, 10:57 AM
We as Hibs fans have questioned the referee's integrity since i was a boy, whenever we have played the old firm. We all think they get the decisions when they play us.

Do you see us asking what team they support? Celtic think they are more important than the rest of us diddy clubs, and want preferential treatment as usual. IMHO they need taught a lesson. 2 years ban from the Scottish cup, and a 10 point reduction should do that.The SFA now have to back their refs in this one, and bring Celtic down a peg or two, and let them know in no uncertain fashion their paranoia wont be tolerated any longer.

And if any other clubs want to behave in the same manner, they will be similarly punished as well.

Twa Cairpets
22-11-2010, 11:07 AM
If that "hand-ball" wasn't seen by the ref then I think we've got to the root of the problem! As I said there was a big thred on here about it and one of the qualified referees said i's allowed - I think he even went as far to say you could pick the ball up and run with it as long as you didn't mean to do it. Or at least if the ref thought you didn't mean to do it. That was his interpretation IIRC. :greengrin

Case in point Danderhall. Nobody said that regarding running with the ball as it's patently ludicrous. It was the interpretation that was chosen to be taken by the poster - I cant recall if it was you, but it was chosen to be interpreted that way because it fitted the posters view of referees. (By "not seen" I meant sight line blocked by keeper, for instance. Unfotunately for refs the laws of physics do apply, and we arent blessed with x-ray vision).

The ref was me, and I made the point that a perfectly legal goal can be scored by a ball striking a players hand or arm. (Keeper clears the ball, it clearly batters of an opponents arm as he is running back up the pitch. Ball loops over keeper into the net. Goal. No argument).

The laws of the game are what they are. Ignorance of them does not constitute a valid basis for attacking refs - and this goes for professionals as well as .netters!

turn and burn
22-11-2010, 11:17 AM
good on the refs in my opinion! there is absolutely no respect for refs in the game anymore; clear from the way they are surrounded and pushed about by players after making decisions. If players require clarity from the ref then send your captain up to speak one on one and keep your ginger manager in his cage...

danderhallhibby
22-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Its not just Lennon, anyone in a tic strip seems to be allowed to question the refs. They seem to forget that along with rangers they get more decisions than anyone else. Well done lennon you celtic twat! This all started cos the ref changed his mind to the correct decision.

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 12:12 PM
Totally disagree. (Opinions, eh!)

The minute a referee seeks to explain a controversial decision, it becomes fuel to the conspiracists. "In my opinion the contact was minimal and therefore I didnt award a penalty" becomes "how wasn't he booked for diving?" or "he's wrong, clear penalty, obviously biased - he even admitted there was contact".

Trying to explain becomes perceived as trying to justify, which is a very different thing.

Even at a lower level, on public parks, trying to explain a decision after a game becomes an exercise in trying to calm someone down.. People just don't want to listen. They've already pre-judged and are just looking to vent their frustration. It would be exactly the same for senior refs but on a wider scale.

I would agree TwoCarpets. I try to always explain my decisions to youth players and if so their managers at a suitable break-up in play or at HT/FT.

The game is all about opinions which is one of the great things about it. Everyone isn't going to agree no matter how clear or unclear a decision is, it's just the way it is.

Example, had a Manager at the weekend who queried why I didn't give a handball against the oppo. His exact words were "How was that not a free-kick? I know he accidently handled the ball but there was no advantage". My reply at the next break-up in play was "You've answered your own question, he accidently handled the ball" to which his reply was something along the lines of "Your f***ing useless". :rolleyes:

As I said, all about opinions :agree:

Danderhall Hibs
22-11-2010, 12:22 PM
I would agree TwoCarpets. I try to always explain my decisions to youth players and if so their managers at a suitable break-up in play or at HT/FT.

The game is all about opinions which is one of the great things about it. Everyone isn't going to agree no matter how clear or unclear a decision is, it's just the way it is.

Example, had a Manager at the weekend who queried why I didn't give a handball against the oppo. His exact words were "How was that not a free-kick? I know he accidently handled the ball but there was no advantage". My reply at the next break-up in play was "You've answered your own question, he accidently handled the ball" to which his reply was something along the lines of "Your f***ing useless". :rolleyes:

As I said, all about opinions :agree:

So is accidental handball a free-kick? Or is it a FK if there's an advantage? Or as you say it's a free-kick even if there's no advantage (which is contradictory of Two Carpets post).

Ed De Gramo
22-11-2010, 12:23 PM
I hope it does get called off just because the drama will be decent

Defo!

Watch the hatred for Celtic and particularly Neil Lennon grow :greengrin

Dinkydoo
22-11-2010, 12:25 PM
I agree, but why be gutless and punish all of us, when we all know why they are doing it?

If they did only strike for games involving Celtic then that would fuel the " the whole, big, bad, wide world is against us" pish that comes from the club.

Strike for everyone and all the other teams start to turn (even more:wink:) on Celtic and side with the referee's.

Quite a well thought out plan IMO.

Lennon, Reid and Hooper should be fined. If it was anyone else out with the OF then they would have been already.

Bad Martini
22-11-2010, 12:27 PM
Putting aside the "pressure" they have to forgo (for the "miniscule" wages they get for running aboot for 90 mins), have we collectively forgotten how SHEITE they are at their job, old firm aside?

Its not a bias that worries me with the refs in Scotland. It's their utter WOEFUL INCOMPETENCE that worries me. They are so shight its scary sometimes.

FFS, we have to have some of the worst refs this side of ****nowswheresville and we think a strike is all good?

If they dinny want to dae the joab, piss off. Aye, I agree the old firm wi their pressure can ALSO piss off but FFS, refs have been shight up here for years and never lost their jobs due to ****ing things up....

:grr:

scoopyboy
22-11-2010, 12:32 PM
I've not read through this whole thread so I may be repeating something that has already been mentioned, if so aplogies.

Reid was wanting every referee to declare what team they support so as they didn't referee their favoured side.

Every referee to a man therefore should say Celtic which would mean no one could ever referee a game of theirs and they would go bust.

Easy peasy.

s.a.m
22-11-2010, 12:35 PM
I've not read through this whole thread so I may be repeating something that has already been mentioned, if so aplogies.

Reid was wanting every referee to declare what team they support so as they didn't referee their favoured side.

Every referee to a man therefore should say Celtic which would mean no one could ever referee a game of theirs and they would go bust.

Easy peasy.


Cunning and super idea!:greengrin

Keith_M
22-11-2010, 12:36 PM
I've not read through this whole thread so I may be repeating something that has already been mentioned, if so aplogies.

Reid was wanting every referee to declare what team they support so as they didn't referee their favoured side.

Every referee to a man therefore should say Celtic which would mean no one could ever referee a game of theirs and they would go bust.

Easy peasy.


:top marks

Golden Bear
22-11-2010, 12:41 PM
The latest:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9216271.stm


I do have some sympathy with the Refs but I don't think withdrawing their labour for one set of fixtures will make the slightest difference.

cwilliamson85
22-11-2010, 12:47 PM
If I was any club that has lost money for travel arrangements etc I would send the bill straight to the Celtic accounts dept asking for them to reimburse.

Maybe fans could do it also. I am sure people have got travel and accommodation booked for long away days!

Ed De Gramo
22-11-2010, 12:50 PM
If I was any club that has lost money for travel arrangements etc I would send the bill straight to the Celtic accounts dept asking for them to reimburse.

Maybe fans could do it also. I am sure people have got travel and accommodation booked for long away days!

yup, all clubs affected should send hospitality bills to Celtic....addressing them to Mr N Lennon c/o Celtic Football Club, The Needle Exchange, Glasgow :grr::grr::grr:

Detesting the plastics with a passion

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 01:26 PM
So is accidental handball a free-kick? Or is it a FK if there's an advantage? Or as you say it's a free-kick even if there's no advantage (which is contradictory of Two Carpets post).

LotG states:-

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with
the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into
consideration:-

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)
counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an
infringement

Clears it up eh!?! :wink:

Jim44
22-11-2010, 01:37 PM
Lennon is a detestable, dyed in the wool trouble maker. I remember when he took over his mob, he openly said that he wanted all his players to question every decision the ref made to the point of intimidating him. He is the lowest form of pondlife.

Twa Cairpets
22-11-2010, 01:48 PM
LotG states:-

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with
the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into
consideration:-

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)
counts as an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) counts as an
infringement

Clears it up eh!?! :wink:

In addition, the position of the arm/hand has to be taken into account (as per guidance to referees). Boiled down, if the arm is in an "unnatural position" - i.e. if flailing about in the air above their head when the ball hits it, then that would constitute an offence punishable by a free kick, regardless of it being accidental or not. Look at the penalty given away by Fabregas at the weekend - perfect example. I dont think for a minute he intended to handle it (so it was "accidental"), but his arm shouldnt have been where it was. Penalty, no arguments

"Accidental" in the sense SidBurns used it is I guess is what people tend to call "ball played man" (see the first point above). If the ball whacks off an arm at a players side from 2 yards, then you're going to be a hard man to award a penalty or free kick.

aljo7-0
22-11-2010, 01:52 PM
The latest:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9216271.stm


I do have some sympathy with the Refs but I don't think withdrawing their labour for one set of fixtures will make the slightest difference.

Given the financial predicament of some clubs the lack of a bit of income for a week that they were expecting/relying on might have an impact in their ability to pay wages etc in the short term. Shame that it is Hibs at home on Saturday not Hearts.

Twa Cairpets
22-11-2010, 01:56 PM
George Peat with an opening salvo against Celtc. I tell you there'll be bloostains at the end of this.

Taken from the Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2010/11/22/peat-sfa-will-do-everything-possible-to-avert-referees-strike-86908-22732060/)


...And Peat appeared to make a veiled criticism of Celtic, who have been at the heart of the controversy since Dougie McDonald rescinded a penalty he initially awarded to the Glasgow club against Dundee United on October 17.

In a prepared statement, Peat said: "Unfortunately the behaviour of some people in recent weeks has tarnished the image of Scottish football. It has demeaned the game.

"The culture of inference, innuendo and conspiracy theories must stop."

Peat did not name John Reid but there was little doubt he was referring to the Celtic chairman, who last week called for the SFA to sack McDonald over his admission that he misled Parkhead manager Neil Lennon on the circumstances surrounding his U-turn. Asked about Reid's intervention, Peat said: "We haven't even discussed that but the comments certainly weren't helpful.

"I don't want to personalise this, I'm just talking about comments which have been made recently which have not helped.

"Referees have always had criticism. Most clubs fortunately take that as part of the game and they leave them alone.

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 02:17 PM
In addition, the position of the arm/hand has to be taken into account (as per guidance to referees). Boiled down, if the arm is in an "unnatural position" - i.e. if flailing about in the air above their head when the ball hits it, then that would constitute an offence punishable by a free kick, regardless of it being accidental or not. Look at the penalty given away by Fabregas at the weekend - perfect example. I dont think for a minute he intended to handle it (so it was "accidental"), but his arm shouldnt have been where it was. Penalty, no arguments

"Accidental" in the sense SidBurns used it is I guess is what people tend to call "ball played man" (see the first point above). If the ball whacks off an arm at a players side from 2 yards, then you're going to be a hard man to award a penalty or free kick.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself...

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 02:47 PM
Putting aside the "pressure" they have to forgo (for the "miniscule" wages they get for running aboot for 90 mins), have we collectively forgotten how SHEITE they are at their job, old firm aside?

Its not a bias that worries me with the refs in Scotland. It's their utter WOEFUL INCOMPETENCE that worries me. They are so shight its scary sometimes.

FFS, we have to have some of the worst refs this side of ****nowswheresville and we think a strike is all good?

If they dinny want to dae the joab, piss off. Aye, I agree the old firm wi their pressure can ALSO piss off but FFS, refs have been shight up here for years and never lost their jobs due to ****ing things up....

:grr:

They now get between £800 and £1000 an SPL game no doubt plus expenses, sounds like a decent number if you can get it.

Part/Time Supporter
22-11-2010, 03:02 PM
Which is more than the majority of SPL players nowadays.

HibeePatrick
22-11-2010, 03:14 PM
The fact that they get paid £800 for "running about for 90 minutes" is irrelevant though.

The fact of the matter is that these people are still human beings who are being treated in a way which is beyond the tolerance level people are willing to put up with when doing a job.

Its not just clubs as well as the recent death threats after the old firm game show (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9128308.stm).

delbert
22-11-2010, 03:15 PM
Have to say I think the explanation about handball above does clear it up, its common sense. If you think that is bad, get yourself a copy of the LOTG and have a look at some of the other laws, this one is a doddle compared to some. The point about handball is that most fans see handball as an offence when it happens, no matter how, the thinking is its handball, therefore the whistle should go.

As far as refs are concerned, the opposite is pretty much true, as we believe that in general 80-85% of handballs are not an offence, as they are neither deliberate, or have occurred when the hand or arm has been placed unnaturally.

As for the strike, not a surprise, heard this might be in the offing, and delighted the refs have finally made a stand against all this nonsense. Our refs are no better or no worse than anywhere else, we think our refs are duds, its the same in almost every country, why do you think Scottish officials are regulars in front of 100,000+ fans in Egypt when their big derby match comes round, its because their refs are percieved as being crap, the Italian fans thought Collina was a dumpling, yet over here when he got a European game, it was like the second coming.

98% of people in this country have no idea as to even how many laws there are, and yet every Saturday these experts tell anyone who will listen that the officials are clueless, or biased, and its utter Bull****! These guys in actual fact do a job that virtually nobody wants to do (there are only just over 2000 qualified refs in the whole of Scotland, for all grades of football), and until people have tried it they should take a chill pill and realise that unless they do, they are going Christmas shopping on Saturday with the wife, and we will then see who actually needs who more. Mind you, its lovely to see Celtc becoming completely isolated in all this, I doubt the other clubs are gonna be lining up behind them anytime soon.

PaulSmith
22-11-2010, 03:33 PM
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1335&newsID=6856

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Have to say I think the explanation about handball above does clear it up, its common sense. If you think that is bad, get yourself a copy of the LOTG and have a look at some of the other laws, this one is a doddle compared to some. The point about handball is that most fans see handball as an offence when it happens, no matter how, the thinking is its handball, therefore the whistle should go.

As far as refs are concerned, the opposite is pretty much true, as we believe that in general 80-85% of handballs are not an offence, as they are neither deliberate, or have occurred when the hand or arm has been placed unnaturally.

As for the strike, not a surprise, heard this might be in the offing, and delighted the refs have finally made a stand against all this nonsense. Our refs are no better or no worse than anywhere else, we think our refs are duds, its the same in almost every country, why do you think Scottish officials are regulars in front of 100,000+ fans in Egypt when their big derby match comes round, its because their refs are percieved as being crap, the Italian fans thought Collina was a dumpling, yet over here when he got a European game, it was like the second coming.

98% of people in this country have no idea as to even how many laws there are, and yet every Saturday these experts tell anyone who will listen that the officials are clueless, or biased, and its utter Bull****! These guys in actual fact do a job that virtually nobody wants to do (there are only just over 2000 qualified refs in the whole of Scotland, for all grades of football), and until people have tried it they should take a chill pill and realise that unless they do, they are going Christmas shopping on Saturday with the wife, and we will then see who actually needs who more. Mind you, its lovely to see Celtc becoming completely isolated in all this, I doubt the other clubs are gonna be lining up behind them anytime soon.

Well said that man! :applause:

JimBHibees - if it's that easy why don't you give it a try!?! The quickest a trainee referee can reach the top is 5/6 years but for most it is at least a decade. Now think about it, thats a decade of reffing for around £30 getting absolute dogs abuse from players, managers and parents. You don't get expenses either and have to pay for your own kit at £45 a top, around £25 for shorts and a tenner for socks. Put it this way, before I had even put whistle to mouth this season I was over £200 down.

Why do I do it? Cause I enjoy it but the minute the abuse gets too much or physical am offski!

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 03:39 PM
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_fa_news.cfm?page=1335&newsID=6856

About time he showed some leadership and backbone.

Hibercelona
22-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Well said that man! :applause:

JimBHibees - if it's that easy why don't you give it a try!?! The quickest a trainee referee can reach the top is 5/6 years but for most it is at least a decade. Now think about it, thats a decade of reffing for around £30 getting absolute dogs abuse from players, managers and parents. You don't get expenses either and have to pay for your own kit at £45 a top, around £25 for shorts and a tenner for socks. Put it this way, before I had even put whistle to mouth this season I was over £200 down.

Why do I do it? Cause I enjoy it but the minute the abuse gets too much or physical am offski!

:top marks

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Well said that man! :applause:

JimBHibees - if it's that easy why don't you give it a try!?! The quickest a trainee referee can reach the top is 5/6 years but for most it is at least a decade. Now think about it, thats a decade of reffing for around £30 getting absolute dogs abuse from players, managers and parents. You don't get expenses either and have to pay for your own kit at £45 a top, around £25 for shorts and a tenner for socks. Put it this way, before I had even put whistle to mouth this season I was over £200 down.

Why do I do it? Cause I enjoy it but the minute the abuse gets too much or physical am offski!

I am not saying it is easy, indeed my brother reffed for a while including a couple of times being open to assault. All I was saying is that IMO the top refs do alright financially.

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 03:53 PM
I am not saying it is easy, indeed my brother reffed for a while including a couple of times being open to assault. All I was saying is that IMO the top refs do alright financially.

I agree with you to an extent but it isn't just 90 minutes on a Saturday. I'm assuming these guys are at the game at least a few hours before and after kick off. They also attend training at least once a week and monthly meetings which again are a few hours.

Even at my level, Probationary, for a 2pm kick off I'll leave the house at 12:30pm, get to the game at 1pm and the quickest I'm away is at 4pm. Add to this 90 minutes of training per week plus travel I reckon I work 6 hours a week reffing.

Granted there are weekends where I maybe have 3/4 games but for the weekends where I only have one, I actually get just under a fiver an hour after diesel. The minimum wage is £5.93!

I know I'm kinda taking this a bit off topic but the top officials have been through what I am currently going through and in my opinion, they deserve to be well paid for it especially with death threats coming more and more into the equation.

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 04:01 PM
I agree with you to an extent but it isn't just 90 minutes on a Saturday. I'm assuming these guys are at the game at least a few hours before and after kick off. They also attend training at least once a week and monthly meetings which again are a few hours.

Even at my level, Probationary, for a 2pm kick off I'll leave the house at 12:30pm, get to the game at 1pm and the quickest I'm away is at 4pm. Add to this 90 minutes of training per week plus travel I reckon I work 6 hours a week reffing.

Granted there are weekends where I maybe have 3/4 games but for the weekends where I only have one, I actually get just under a fiver an hour after diesel. The minimum wage is £5.93!

I know I'm kinda taking this a bit off topic but the top officials have been through what I am currently going through and in my opinion, they deserve to be well paid for it especially with death threats coming more and more into the equation.

It is their hobby though and get paid for it unlike other hobbies that people have chosen to do and pay for it out of their own pocket.

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 04:03 PM
It is their hobby though and get paid for it unlike other hobbies that people have chosen to do and pay for it out of their own pocket.

Again agreed but it is a hobby that is NEEDED. No refs means no football...

PaulSmith
22-11-2010, 04:08 PM
I am not saying it is easy, indeed my brother reffed for a while including a couple of times being open to assault. All I was saying is that IMO the top refs do alright financially.

Forgetting that they are already in professional jobs and any time off that they are required to take from their day job is unpaid.

Only Craig Thomson is in reality a full time referee.

What I'm trying to say here is I bet that a fair % of the class 1 guys would be better off just sticking to their day jobs rather than running the risk of losing income refereeing.

CentreLine
22-11-2010, 04:30 PM
Again agreed but it is a hobby that is NEEDED. No refs means no football...

SidBurns, we salute you :notworthy:

You are absolutely right. People have to realise that the falability of the referee is as much part of the game as the skill of each player. Or for that matter the ability of each player to cheat his way to an advantage at the expense of that referee or parhaps an oponent.

Bishop Hibee
22-11-2010, 04:42 PM
A couple of things to add to my previous post. After hearing jambos getting all holier than thou about criticising refs today, I had to laugh. Romanov has been the worst culprit of all with his nonsensical pish about conspiracies.

Also, lets not pretend that somehow criticism of refs from fans is something new. In the 1880's refs were being chased across the Meadows by fans after derby games! The difference now is the OF and in this particular instance Celtic see themselves as bigger than the SFA and can therefore criticise with impunity. The SFA need to lead by example, punish Celtic probably with a large fine and possibly a suspended points deduction, suspend or sack McDonald for his conduct as he was in the wrong and then get clubs to agree to a code of conduct and a system of sanctions if the code is breached.

There is still time to get the weekend games played but as each hour passes it is more unlikely.

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 04:51 PM
Forgetting that they are already in professional jobs and any time off that they are required to take from their day job is unpaid.

Only Craig Thomson is in reality a full time referee.

What I'm trying to say here is I bet that a fair % of the class 1 guys would be better off just sticking to their day jobs rather than running the risk of losing income refereeing.

Really depends what they do. Some will no doubt be paid or have flexible arrangements with employers others wont. Noone forced them to put themselves forward to be a ref they have chosen to do this very difficult job. I am sure they knew that there may be some sacrifices however no doubt they get decent benefits from travelling abroad if they reach that standard.

JimBHibees
22-11-2010, 04:52 PM
Again agreed but it is a hobby that is NEEDED. No refs means no football...

Absolutely agree.

Keith_M
22-11-2010, 04:55 PM
I'd like to add my Tuppence worth here.

John Reid stated at the Celtc AGM that McDonald should have been sacked for lying in the game at Tannadice. FWIW, I personally think he should, no matter how small or white the lie was, as the officials should really be seen to be above any kind of deception. However, it's not right for the chairman of one particular football club to tell the SFA how to act in an individual case. He only added fuel to the fire and stoked up the conspiracy theory tendencies of the Sellik-minded.

Also, I've seen absolutely nothing from Celtc that admits the fact that the lie from McDonald was anything other than a face-saving exercise on his part. All we've heard so far is that it's yet more proof of the massive conspiracy against them.

The linesman in the case decided to come out with a big rant against Referees, the SFA, et al, after he felt he was hung out to dry. Don't Celtc think that if there was a massive conspiracy against them, the guy would have said so, as he was venting his spleen about everything else?

basehibby
22-11-2010, 05:06 PM
I agree, but why be gutless and punish all of us, when we all know why they are doing it?

I think there's two good reasons why an all out strike is their best option.

1) Targeting only the guilty parties will give them yet more excuses to whine and bleat about conspiracies against them.

2) All going out together shows SOLIDARITY and UNITY behind their cause.

I'm with the refs on this one personally - Lennon's pre and post match tantrums have gotten well beyond a joke, and the fact that some of the morons that hang on his every word have resorted to death threats shows why some sort of action is fully justified.

basehibby
22-11-2010, 05:15 PM
I agree, although if my next door neighbor murders his wife, the whole street dont get a 10 stretch. Celtic are wrong, punish them, and punish them hard. And if they do it again, punish them harder. If they want to carry on this conspiracy theory, let them, who gives a toss apart from them?

When the binmen go on strike do they just concentrate on the councilors who structured their pay and conditions and pick up everyone else's rubbish as normal?

GreenPJ
22-11-2010, 05:32 PM
I'd like to add my Tuppence worth here.

John Reid stated at the Celtc AGM that McDonald should have been sacked for lying in the game at Tannadice. FWIW, I personally think he should, no matter how small or white the lie was, as the officials should really be seen to be above any kind of deception. However, it's not right for the chairman of one particular football club to tell the SFA how to act in an individual case. He only added fuel to the fire and stoked up the conspiracy theory tendencies of the Sellik-minded.

Also, I've seen absolutely nothing from Celtc that admits the fact that the lie from McDonald was anything other than a face-saving exercise on his part. All we've heard so far is that it's yet more proof of the massive conspiracy against them.

The linesman in the case decided to come out with a big rant against Referees, the SFA, et al, after he felt he was hung out to dry. Don't Celtc think that if there was a massive conspiracy against them, the guy would have said so, as he was venting his spleen about everything else?

I agree with the first part of your post, it was a lie which was wrong, he admitted it, he should have resigned and there should have been an apology on the basis that there was a lie. The fact that the SFA or refereeing authorities did not apologise has allowed this fiasco to grow arms and legs and I think the Chairman actually had a duty to seek an apology and an explanation if not specifically stating that MacDonald should be sacked.

Lennon's antics are not acceptable at the same time and the book should be thrown at him for bringing the game into disrepute, the problem is the referees have already done that by their actions at Tannadicegate.

FromTheCapital
22-11-2010, 05:36 PM
Neil Lennon and Celtic are the one's that have caused this..... (Shinanagance).
But TBH the refs still shouldnae go on strike !

HFC 0-7
22-11-2010, 05:43 PM
IMo, the refs should not be striking. They are moaning because their integrity has been called into question, so what explain the decisions, admit that people get it wrong and move on. Refs have been getting abuse for ages now, its nothing new. Strange that they have suddenly started strikes after refs have been accused of lying by other refs, yes Lennon has caused a lot of bother in the press but when their own start accusing each other then there is something wrong.

There standard has been poor recently and as such this will draw criticism, its something the refs need to sort out and the SPL need to sort out people moaning in the press. Lennon is letting a lot of people down by his moaning, but the refs are letting many down as well, they are letting thousands of fans who probably worked out childcare, swapped shifts etc down.

IMO the game needs transparency, clear rules for all. Refs need to explain their decisions, the SPl need to set and stick to rules regarding managers outbursts. The refs should make it clear who they support as well to avoid any doubt, although that probably wont be for a while as they will need to get more refs from the east coast.

PaulSmith
22-11-2010, 06:11 PM
IMo, the refs should not be striking. They are moaning because their integrity has been called into question, so what explain the decisions, admit that people get it wrong and move on. Refs have been getting abuse for ages now, its nothing new. Strange that they have suddenly started strikes after refs have been accused of lying by other refs, yes Lennon has caused a lot of bother in the press but when their own start accusing each other then there is something wrong.

There standard has been poor recently and as such this will draw criticism, its something the refs need to sort out and the SPL need to sort out people moaning in the press. Lennon is letting a lot of people down by his moaning, but the refs are letting many down as well, they are letting thousands of fans who probably worked out childcare, swapped shifts etc down.

IMO the game needs transparency, clear rules for all. Refs need to explain their decisions, the SPl need to set and stick to rules regarding managers outbursts. The refs should make it clear who they support as well to avoid any doubt, although that probably wont be for a while as they will need to get more refs from the east coast.

And if referee's explained their decisions in the manner of "I thought that it was penalty as at the time I seen contact between X and Y" that would be the end of it.

Or if Thomson said after the recent Hearts win against Celtic, "Ledley jumped into a tackle two footed and used excessive force" or "I didn't see a handball against the Hearts defender as another player was in my line of sight"...

More ref's from the East Coast...I'd be amazed if you could tell me out the 31 class 1 referee's where each one came from and you'd be even more amazed at the results IMO.

Do you think that every new signing that Hibs make should be forced to tell us what team he supported at his first press conference?

The standard is poor, compared to what? What exactly are you basing your assumption on as every month there are Scottish refs taking on Champs League, Europa Cups and they have a good reputation. Have you seen how many howlers there have been in the EPL this season, these guys are FT and the mistakes and the shape of them are an embarrassment.

Celtic have forced the hand of the referees, by going public and threatening the SFA with what will happen if McDonald is appointed to one of their games was absolutely disgusting. Who the hell do they think they are in deciding who will and will not referee their games.

p.s

I dont think that there will be any strike on Saturday or if there is all SPL games will go ahead but the SFL may suffer.

Jim44
22-11-2010, 06:14 PM
The paranoia continues over on Kerrydale Street where some nutters are suggesting that the ref strike is part of the conspiracy to favour Rangers in giving them a rest after their game against Man Utd. :zzzzz!:

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2010, 06:38 PM
I think there's two good reasons why an all out strike is their best option.

1) Targeting only the guilty parties will give them yet more excuses to whine and bleat about conspiracies against them.

2) All going out together shows SOLIDARITY and UNITY behind their cause.

I'm with the refs on this one personally - Lennon's pre and post match tantrums have gotten well beyond a joke, and the fact that some of the morons that hang on his every word have resorted to death threats shows why some sort of action is fully justified.
I understand, but once again we all pay for Celtics actions. Perhaps the rest of us should show solidarity and unity and demand the authorities make a statement asking for clarification on whats brought all this on. :wink:

When the binmen go on strike do they just concentrate on the councilors who structured their pay and conditions and pick up everyone else's rubbish as normal?

They should do, they'd get a lot more sympathy.

Jim44
22-11-2010, 06:44 PM
An SPL executive has just said on Reporting Scotland that there are contingency plans and he seemed totally confident that all games will go ahead. I'll believe that when I see it.

Dan Sarf
22-11-2010, 06:45 PM
Assuming the men in black are still on Lennon leave, who would you like to see instead? Foreign refs? Ex-managers? Ex-players? Celebrities? Glamour models?

Sir David Gray
22-11-2010, 06:46 PM
I heard on the STV news earlier that the SFA are considering getting in refs, possibly from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Given the nature of the problems that already exist with Rangers and Celtic in this country, is it really a good idea to source referees from the two countries that all the trouble is over?

It is a recipe for disaster if Declan Murphy from Cork gives a few dodgy decisions against Rangers on Saturday.

bingo70
22-11-2010, 06:46 PM
An SPL executive has just said on Reporting Scotland that there are contingency plans and he seemed totally confident that all games will go ahead. I'll believe that when I see it.

there's talk of getting refs in from wales for the weekend so the games probably will go ahead

Jones28
22-11-2010, 06:49 PM
Ive got an idea, lets replace the word "ginger" with the word "midget", let them be grouped with the pr!ck for a few pages :greengrin

And another thing, if the St Johnstone game doesnt go ahead because of the ref's striking then I will place the blame solely at the feet of Gary Hooper, Neil "Irishgingermidgetpr1ckleprachaun" and there whip-wielding master who's name I (A) cant remember (B) dont give a toss about.

Will the SFA ask Celtic for a formal apology and start a new "protect the refs" campaing, or will we be subject to a farcical situation where both sides are too stuborn to move and we become the laughing stock of world football with a gutless top-deck and a team who can do whatever they please.

I'd put my mortgage on the latter, well, im 17 and dont have one, but my dads mortage....

HenryMonk
22-11-2010, 06:50 PM
Assuming the men in black are still on Lennon leave, who would you like to see instead? Foreign refs? Ex-managers? Ex-players? Celebrities? Glamour models?

aye play mates of the year:wink:

on serious note, we have an agreement with welsh, NI and irish fa's to provide ref's with each other, obviously celtic will be after irish ref's.

bingo70
22-11-2010, 06:51 PM
I heard on the STV news earlier that the SFA are considering getting in refs, possibly from Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Given the nature of the problems that already exist with Rangers and Celtic in this country, is it really a good idea to source referees from the two countries that all the trouble is over?

It is a recipe for disaster if Declan Murphy from Cork gives a few dodgy decisions against Rangers on Saturday.

what a lot of absolute nonsense eh?!

Not your post, but the fact this should even be a consideration, Scottish football really is a big pile of pish, from a selfish point of view i hope the games are postponed because i really can't be ersed just now and i'd probably rather sit in a warm pub with a coupon on watching the scores come in but i've got sympathy for the people that need to travel and organise transport for it.

FWIW i actually back the refs, the abuse they get is out of control and a line has got to be drawn somewhere.

marinello59
22-11-2010, 06:52 PM
I would like Neil Lennon to ref our game so we can show him the respect he deserves.:agree:

Hibercelona
22-11-2010, 06:52 PM
I nominate myself for the St Johnstone game. :agree:

BoltonHibee
22-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Assuming the men in black are still on Lennon leave, who would you like to see instead? Foreign refs? Ex-managers? Ex-players? Celebrities? Glamour models?

The referees should be from anywhere other than Scotland

HenryMonk
22-11-2010, 07:00 PM
I would like Neil Lennon to ref our game so we can show him the respect he deserves.:agree:

lennon reffing the the huns game would be more fun no?

James70
22-11-2010, 07:02 PM
Lets face it, if Celtic don't win the league and cup this year it will be because there is a conspiracy against them, nothing to do with their own performances.

Referees are only human and make mistakes the same as everyone else in football and in life in general. The trouble with technology is that referees are now under much more scrutiny than ever before and not only in this country. Not a week passes without decisions being analysed over and over again on MOTD. What gets overlooked time and time again is that the refs don't have the benefit of action replays, slow motion replays and views from several different angles.

As for telling lies, I wonder how many John Reid told when he was a politician.

The sooner Neil Lennon is booted out of Scottish football the better. If every SPL manager was to behave in a similar manner to him then the game in this country would be ungovernable.

Part/Time Supporter
22-11-2010, 07:03 PM
The referees should be from anywhere other than Scotland

I hope they get a ref from Cork for the Rangers match and a ref from East Belfast for the Celtic match. Sit back and watch the reaction to any dodgy decision against either team.

:greengrin

Part/Time Supporter
22-11-2010, 07:05 PM
Lets face it, if Celtic don't win the league and cup this year it will be because there is a conspiracy against them, nothing to do with their own performances.

Referees are only human and make mistakes the same as everyone else in football and in life in general. The trouble with technology is that referees are now under much more scrutiny than ever before and not only in this country. Not a week passes without decisions being analysed over and over again on MOTD. What gets overlooked time and time again is that the refs don't have the benefit of action replays, slow motion replays and views from several different angles.

As for telling lies, I wonder how many John Reid told when he was a politician.

The sooner Neil Lennon is booted out of Scottish football the better. If every SPL manager was to behave in a similar manner to him then the game in this country would be ungovernable.

:agree:

Look at Saturday's game. All the chat is about a Celtic penalty appeal and a Dundee United shout for a Celtic player to be sent off. Nothing about the daft tackle by Shaun Maloney that gave away a set piece that United scored their injury time equaliser from.

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 07:08 PM
And if referee's explained their decisions in the manner of "I thought that it was penalty as at the time I seen contact between X and Y" that would be the end of it.

Or if Thomson said after the recent Hearts win against Celtic, "Ledley jumped into a tackle two footed and used excessive force" or "I didn't see a handball against the Hearts defender as another player was in my line of sight"...

More ref's from the East Coast...I'd be amazed if you could tell me out the 31 class 1 referee's where each one came from and you'd be even more amazed at the results IMO.

Do you think that every new signing that Hibs make should be forced to tell us what team he supported at his first press conference?

The standard is poor, compared to what? What exactly are you basing your assumption on as every month there are Scottish refs taking on Champs League, Europa Cups and they have a good reputation. Have you seen how many howlers there have been in the EPL this season, these guys are FT and the mistakes and the shape of them are an embarrassment.

Celtic have forced the hand of the referees, by going public and threatening the SFA with what will happen if McDonald is appointed to one of their games was absolutely disgusting. Who the hell do they think they are in deciding who will and will not referee their games.

p.s

I dont think that there will be any strike on Saturday or if there is all SPL games will go ahead but the SFL may suffer.

Unfortunately referees are not allowed to speak to the press. It is in our Constitution.

There are seven Grade 1 officials from Edinburgh so almost a quarter of the total, not bad...

cocopops1875
22-11-2010, 07:09 PM
The referees should be from anywhere other than Scotland

or northern ireland or ireland or holland or ....................................... marrs i mean we cant have wee geen men :grr:

BoltonHibee
22-11-2010, 07:10 PM
I hope they get a ref from Cork for the Rangers match and a ref from East Belfast for the Celtic match. Sit back and watch the reaction to any dodgy decision against either team.

:greengrin

:greengrin

Hibbyradge
22-11-2010, 07:13 PM
I haven't read all eight pages, so I apologise if this has already been mentioned, but aren't we forgetting the part that the Yams, and Vlad in particular, have played in all of this?

Amongst all their usual paranoid "GFA" drivel, their official site more or less said that referees were corrupt.

Celtc and HOMFC make very strange bed fellows.

basehibby
22-11-2010, 07:40 PM
Its not the fact they make mistakes, we all do, but the fact that time after time they do not admit it and close ranks. That is the reason for so much hostility against refs.

:agree: This is where the case for the refs falls down IMO - for whatever reason they rarely seem to admit when they get it wrong.

Case in point for me was when one Hugh Dallas ref'd a game at ER when we hosted the Huns and made an almighty blunder in awarding der hun a penalty and sending Boozy off. What the rest of the world could clearly see was that the attacking hun shoved Boozy over and then proceded to trip over his prone body!

Hibs immediately appealed the red card, and as required in our current joke "system" Dallas got to review the incident first and decide whether it got put forward to the video review panel.

Result? Case sumarilly dismissed - no explanations - nothing!

The lack of any feedback whatsoever only served to create a sense of hostility towards Dallas and refs in general for some time after.

This is the major thing that needs sorted in our system IMO - I'm inclined to agree with Uncle Wattie that we are too small a pond to create restrictions on who refs who. What CAN be sorted though is freeing up the channels of communication - which I believe would result in greater respect for refs along with understanding of their decisions - as well as increasing their level of accountability to us - the paying customers.

The_Todd
22-11-2010, 07:42 PM
I'd love the refs to come out and say "We're ******* fed up of Celtc" but all that would do is feed their paranoia.

Things need to change, and things need to be applied evenly across all clubs (I suspect Celtc will face no action from the SFA about their behaviour).



Fourth Official shouldn't be on the touchline, he should be in the stand with a much better view of the game. Possibly with access to replays. He should have a direct link to the ref AND he should be able to tell the ref of anything they've missed without any prompting. If all games are filmed, this shouldn't prove to be much of a logistical problem
Only the captain from each team should be allowed to discuss decisions with the ref. Any chatback from anyone else is a yellow card.
Ref's final decision is final. Any further remonstration is a yellow card.
Abuse of match officials is a yellow.
Any club official making accusations of bias or cheating face their club getting a points deduction unless they have rock solid proof. (Sending a humerous email about the pope doesn't count as proof).
Refs to be allowed to explain their decisions. Not in a deserted room all alone with a nutjob like Lennon, but in a controlled press conference like manner.

If I was in charge, that is.

basehibby
22-11-2010, 07:51 PM
The simple solution, as it will always be, is to assist the ref's with video refereeing/decision making. Set a marker down and make it that the SPL (only 6 games) will trial it for a season.

If Chick and his colleagues can watch instant replays whilst at the game, giving their thoughts, and all this while the game is going on, why on earth is there a difficulty for the SFA/SPL to try it out. There is not a cost issue because all SPL clubs have the playback facility. There is not any issue with time added on, because that is exactly what it says, time added on. They add on for subs and injuries, why not important decisions. Will the game take a lot longer to finish. Not if you are clear in what you use the TV evidence for. It takes literally 15/20 seconds to check for a sending off offence, an offside/onside goal, ball over the line, penalty decisions. These are really the only decisions that will rile support, players and management, and then there would be no need to collude in ref's reports, explain away decisions to managers/media.

If you spend money to go to watch a top level football match, is there really an issue whether there is 2 minutes or 8 minutes added on, as long as there is fairness. There will be an argument for policing costs probably if games are kept going. Have to say, I would imagine many of the policng operations and shifts have a contingency if things go pear shaped and I cannot see them going home like we do immediately after the whistle.

Like all things in life though, the simple solution is always a million miles away from fruition.

:top marks:top marks:top marks

SidBurns
22-11-2010, 07:55 PM
Eleven out of ten smiley thingy. all makes sense.
Still getting people criticising ref's without understanding their viewpoint.
Of course things will look different standing on the pitch looking out than it will looking in, or on a 32 inch screen with HD umpteen hundred zoom slow motion instant replay from various angles. Then with whatever tinted glasses are worn.

There needs to be an education to managers, players, fans and commentators also.

Giving all of the above a copy of the LotG would be a good start! If I had a pound for everytime I've heard any of the four say "he was/wasn't last man" I'd be a very rich man! The term "last man" does not exist - end of!

Hibbyradge
22-11-2010, 07:56 PM
I'd love the refs to come out and say "We're ******* fed up of Celtc" but all that would do is feed their paranoia.

Things need to change, and things need to be applied evenly across all clubs (I suspect Celtc will face no action from the SFA about their behaviour).



Fourth Official shouldn't be on the touchline, he should be in the stand with a much better view of the game. Possibly with access to replays. He should have a direct link to the ref AND he should be able to tell the ref of anything they've missed without any prompting. If all games are filmed, this shouldn't prove to be much of a logistical problem
Only the captain from each team should be allowed to discuss decisions with the ref. Any chatback from anyone else is a yellow card.
Ref's final decision is final. Any further remonstration is a yellow card.
Abuse of match officials is a yellow.
Any club official making accusations of bias or cheating face their club getting a points deduction unless they have rock solid proof. (Sending a humerous email about the pope doesn't count as proof).
Refs to be allowed to explain their decisions. Not in a deserted room all alone with a nutjob like Lennon, but in a controlled press conference like manner.

If I was in charge, that is.


Eleven out of ten smiley thingy. all makes sense.
Still getting people criticising ref's without understanding their viewpoint.
Of course things will look different standing on the pitch looking out than it will looking in, or on a 32 inch screen with HD umpteen hundred zoom slow motion instant replay from various angles. Then with whatever tinted glasses are worn.

Can we add something about ejecting from the ground, anyone whose neck and/or forehead veins threaten to burst as they issue a vicious torrent of abuse at a match official?

Jonnyboy
22-11-2010, 08:00 PM
I haven't read all eight pages, so I apologise if this has already been mentioned, but aren't we forgetting the part that the Yams, and Vlad in particular, have played in all of this?

Amongst all their usual paranoid "GFA" drivel, their official site more or less said that referees were corrupt.

Celtc and HOMFC make very strange bed fellows.

Good point, well made D and it kinda reinforces something I posted several pages ago. Yes Celtic are the main offenders here but they are by no means the only ones. Having said that I never thought I'd ever agree with anything the repugnant George Peat ever said but he's bang on the money this time with his little 'clues' as to who he blames for this nonsense.

On another point - my take on the Celtic situation is that you have a manager who still behaves like he did when he was a player. When Lennon was playing he was constantly griping in the ear of referees whereas now he just does it from the touchline. Sadly, as a player the media rarely sought his views but now that he manages the club they've given him a platform to freely air his views on why Celtic are discriminated against by referees, the SPL, the SFA, CIA, KGB etc etc.

John Reid - a politician who was used to being able to say pretty much what he liked because his MP status allowed him to do so. Lennon continues to act like a player and Reid continues to act like a politician. Coming from him, a complaint about someone lying and a demand for action reeks of irony BUT I think he has a point. As soon as McDonald admitted he'd lied he should have walked and failing which he should have been at least suspended. Instead, he's refereeing Hibs v Motherwell and life for him goes on as normal.

Hooper - this guy takes the biscuit but credit where it's due he's learned the party line pretty quickly. Apparently referees all give decisions against Celtic to stop them winning games ...... learned behaviour surely as until he was plucked from obscurity by Scunthorpe and then got his move to Parkhead I'll wager the only knowledge he had of Scotland was that he quite likes shortbread.

Finally, to conclude my rant :greengrin, can anyone enlighten me as to what the referees hope to achieve by striking? They'll get a weekend off and seven days later it'll be back to where they are now.

Jonnyboy
22-11-2010, 08:03 PM
Can we add something about ejecting from the ground, anyone whose neck and/or forehead veins threaten to burst as they issue a vicious torrent of abuse at a match official?

Too late D, Yogi's already away :wink:

The_Todd
22-11-2010, 08:06 PM
Absolutely, the notion that it goes with the territory is absurd. No one should be subjected to the abuse they receive doing their job without protection from their employers, in this case the employers have their share blame for failing to react.

Speaking of "goes with the territory", there was a cracking post by a Celtc fan on Pie and Bovril. It went along the lines of "Death threats are part and parcel of the game and refs know what they're getting into".

I mean... seriously? Death threats are par for the course? Since when?!

basehibby
22-11-2010, 08:07 PM
I couldn`t care less about the refs in the SPL, they are all useless and their assistants are even worse, as for Celtic the main culprit is Lennon, i don`t think going by his post match comments anybody has ever scored a legitimate goal against his team.
The SFA if they were a serious organisation should throw the book at him and the likes of Lafferty and McGregor for continually bringing the game into disrepute and i don`t mean by handing out fines, start giving them 15 match suspensions and they`ll get it from their employers as well for being liabilities.:grr:

:agree: They weren't shy of doing that in the 70s IIRC (not to Hibs players anyway)

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2010, 08:11 PM
:agree: They weren't shy of doing that in the 70s IIRC (not to Hibs players anyway)

Are you suggesting there was some sort of conspiracy against Hibs, back in the 70s?:wink:

Hibbyradge
22-11-2010, 08:17 PM
Good point, well made D and it kinda reinforces something I posted several pages ago. Yes Celtic are the main offenders here but they are by no means the only ones. Having said that I never thought I'd ever agree with anything the repugnant George Peat ever said but he's bang on the money this time with his little 'clues' as to who he blames for this nonsense.

On another point - my take on the Celtic situation is that you have a manager who still behaves like he did when he was a player. When Lennon was playing he was constantly griping in the ear of referees whereas now he just does it from the touchline. Sadly, as a player the media rarely sought his views but now that he manages the club they've given him a platform to freely air his views on why Celtic are discriminated against by referees, the SPL, the SFA, CIA, KGB etc etc.

John Reid - a politician who was used to being able to say pretty much what he liked because his MP status allowed him to do so. Lennon continues to act like a player and Reid continues to act like a politician. Coming from him, a complaint about someone lying and a demand for action reeks of irony BUT I think he has a point. As soon as McDonald admitted he'd lied he should have walked and failing which he should have been at least suspended. Instead, he's refereeing Hibs v Motherwell and life for him goes on as normal.

Hooper - this guy takes the biscuit but credit where it's due he's learned the party line pretty quickly. Apparently referees all give decisions against Celtic to stop them winning games ...... learned behaviour surely as until he was plucked from obscurity by Scunthorpe and then got his move to Parkhead I'll wager the only knowledge he had of Scotland was that he quite likes shortbread.

Finally, to conclude my rant :greengrin, can anyone enlighten me as to what the referees hope to achieve by striking? They'll get a weekend off and seven days later it'll be back to where they are now.

I agree with pretty much all of that, John.

The fact that McDonald got the decision right, isn't the point. He lied and now his integrity is in doubt.

Next time he makes a statement about a controversial incident, will he be telling the truth? Or, will he have learned his lesson and not admit his lie?

However, I think the refs are right to take this action.

No-one has come out in their defence since all this stuff blew up. No-one came to their defence when Hearts called them corrupt and no-one has defended them against Hooper's remarks. Yet.

No wonder they feel isolated and want to fight back.

They have to be allowed to make decisions without fear of being personally, or collectively, victimised. If this strike hadn't been threatened, it would have been open season on them.

BoltonHibee
22-11-2010, 08:19 PM
If the refs strike, and nobody backs them or takes them on( The clubs ). Is there anyway back for them?

Hibbyradge
22-11-2010, 08:20 PM
Too late D, Yogi's already away :wink:

:greengrin

Actually, you have inadvertently raised a serious point.

I heard at the weekend that Motherwell, and another team who have slipped my mind, recently swapped around their away and home dug-outs so they could be nearer to the linesman.

I wonder why?

Jonnyboy
22-11-2010, 08:24 PM
:greengrin

Actually, you have inadvertently raised a serious point.

I heard at the weekend that Motherwell, and another team who have slipped my mind, recently swapped around their away and home dug-outs so they could be nearer to the linesman.

I wonder why?

:hmmm:

basehibby
22-11-2010, 08:43 PM
I understand, but once again we all pay for Celtics actions. Perhaps the rest of us should show solidarity and unity and demand the authorities make a statement asking for clarification on whats brought all this on. :wink:


They should do, they'd get a lot more sympathy.

You make some good points there BH as it's clear as day who's brought this on;
Lennon - his ridiculous bleating after and BEFORE near enough every game is a clear attempt to influence refs and pretty much ammounts to cheating IMO.
Reid - rather than chastise his manager he takes a big stick and stirs it up some more!

I'm still behind the refs on their strike action though - it's pretty much guaranteed to rock the boat and the boat needs rocking.

basehibby
22-11-2010, 08:54 PM
It'd be an absolute disgrace if ref's were brought in as cover.

Can we expect to see our own SPL Refs manning the barricades outside ER shouting "SCAAAABS" at the imported officials :confused:

PeeKay
22-11-2010, 09:15 PM
Can we expect to see our own SPL Refs manning the barricades outside ER shouting "SCAAAABS" at the imported officials :confused:

Only the four officials who would have been officiating our game could mount a picket at ER on Saturday. Anything else would be secondary picketing and that's not allowed.

basehibby
22-11-2010, 09:31 PM
Are you suggesting there was some sort of conspiracy against Hibs, back in the 70s?:wink:

Ask Alex Edwards - I'd go with his take on it :wink:

blackpoolhibs
22-11-2010, 09:34 PM
Ask Alex Edwards - I'd go with his take on it :wink:

I remember those days, we seemed to miss him for large parts of every season he was with us.:boo hoo: What a player, but what a temper.:faf:

delbert
22-11-2010, 09:45 PM
Where do I start, there's so much in this thread, yes McDonald told a wee porkie at his work, has anyone on here ever thrown a sickie? Stop being so bloody pious for Gods sake, you know I have told my kids for years that Santa exists, I was f*ucking lying, maybe they should report me to Childline, or perhaps if we want to do this on a punishment fits the crime basis, how about the death penalty for parking offences, in the long run we solve the population crisis and the traffic problems in one go !!

As for the earlier notion that the strike wont actually go ahead, not the feeling i'm getting, these guys are really angry, and the games may well take place, but I doubt they will take place with Scots officials, I am not really bothered because the fact the scottish refs are'nt doing the games is the important thing here, as a marker has been set. Next time round, I doubt the SFA will get a weeks notice, there are a number of ways to skin a cat. I note with some interest they are looking at possibly using Irish referees, that could be fun, does John Reid get to vet them? Can only hope Rangers game will be refereed by Finbar O'toole, and Celtic's by Billy McProddy, just train the cameras on the directors boxes for live cardiac arrest footage (well live till they hit the floor anyway)

And what about the SFA in all this, where have they been hiding, whilst their employees have been getting pilloried from a couple of their member clubs, because lets not forget Hearts comments a few weeks ago. Stuart Regan has been found utterly wanting at the first time of asking, no leadership, no courage to stand up either for his refs, or against the drivel emanating from Celtc, not a word. No wonder the refs felt they had to act, and the head of refereeing, Mr Shug Dallas, he immediately sprang into action when his name was mentioned, but at any other time, complete silence, a total joke.

This is going to be fun for a few weeks, the fallout will last a lot longer, but at least some things never change, Celtc will come out of this looking uutterly ridiculous as ever, but then as we know, it's all a conspiracy.

Kaiser1962
22-11-2010, 10:02 PM
I would be surprised it other ref's would cover the games if our ref's went on strike. More likely to snowball elsewhere given the abuse that refs are subject to.

Hibbyradge
22-11-2010, 10:14 PM
Where do I start, there's so much in this thread, yes McDonald told a wee porkie at his work, has anyone on here ever thrown a sickie? Stop being so bloody pious for Gods sake, you know I have told my kids for years that Santa exists, I was f*ucking lying, maybe they should report me to Childline, or perhaps if we want to do this on a punishment fits the crime basis, how about the death penalty for parking offences, in the long run we solve the population crisis and the traffic problems in one go !!

As for the earlier notion that the strike wont actually go ahead, not the feeling i'm getting, these guys are really angry, and the games may well take place, but I doubt they will take place with Scots officials, I am not really bothered because the fact the scottish refs are'nt doing the games is the important thing here, as a marker has been set. Next time round, I doubt the SFA will get a weeks notice, there are a number of ways to skin a cat. I note with some interest they are looking at possibly using Irish referees, that could be fun, does John Reid get to vet them? Can only hope Rangers game will be refereed by Finbar O'toole, and Celtic's by Billy McProddy, just train the cameras on the directors boxes for live cardiac arrest footage (well live till they hit the floor anyway)

And what about the SFA in all this, where have they been hiding, whilst their employees have been getting pilloried from a couple of their member clubs, because lets not forget Hearts comments a few weeks ago. Stuart Regan has been found utterly wanting at the first time of asking, no leadership, no courage to stand up either for his refs, or against the drivel emanating from Celtc, not a word. No wonder the refs felt they had to act, and the head of refereeing, Mr Shug Dallas, he immediately sprang into action when his name was mentioned, but at any other time, complete silence, a total joke.

This is going to be fun for a few weeks, the fallout will last a lot longer, but at least some things never change, Celtc will come out of this looking uutterly ridiculous as ever, but then as we know, it's all a conspiracy.

I agree with all of that, except paragraph one.

It's not about being pious or having never told a fib. If a referee's integrity is proven to be in doubt, he's finished.

Referees can't get caught telling lies about their decisions.

He may well ride this incident out, but his career has taken a huge blow and I think he'll quietly go off the radar.

down-the-slope
22-11-2010, 10:17 PM
The best bit of Schadenfreude would be derived from Euro refs being brought in and taking not a bit of guff from the OF and sending a couple off - ginger sent to the stand etc for their trying to influence tactics......now that would a result

Removed
22-11-2010, 10:20 PM
The best bit of Schadenfreude would be derived from Euro refs being brought in and taking not a bit of guff from the OF and sending a couple off - ginger sent to the stand etc for their trying to influence tactics......now that would a result


Let's see it on Wednesday for starters :greengrin

bighairyfaeleith
22-11-2010, 10:24 PM
Celtic are an odious little club, sooner lennon is publicly exposed for being the petty little cheat we all know he is the better.

I am backing the refs 100%.

If we want change then we need to give refs the tools to change, i.e. technology to prove decisions at the time.

snooky
22-11-2010, 10:40 PM
You make some good points there BH as it's clear as day who's brought this on;
Lennon - his ridiculous bleating after and BEFORE near enough every game is a clear attempt to influence refs and pretty much ammounts to cheating IMO.
Reid - rather than chastise his manager he takes a big stick and stirs it up some more!

I'm still behind the refs on their strike action though - it's pretty much guaranteed to rock the boat and the boat needs rocking.

The irony of this whole affair is that 'bias refereeing' is finally being 'exposed' by one of the two parties that have been the main benefactors of this scandal throughout the years. You couldn't make it up. :greengrin

ballengeich
22-11-2010, 10:49 PM
I would be surprised it other ref's would cover the games if our ref's went on strike. More likely to snowball elsewhere given the abuse that refs are subject to.

I hope that once the reason for the strike is explained to them referees from other countries will refuse to take our refs' places. I wouldn't be surprised if there are phone calls and e-mails being exchanged right now to explain the Scottish refs' point of view to their foreign colleagues.

matty_f
22-11-2010, 11:07 PM
I haven't read all eight pages, so I apologise if this has already been mentioned, but aren't we forgetting the part that the Yams, and Vlad in particular, have played in all of this?

Amongst all their usual paranoid "GFA" drivel, their official site more or less said that referees were corrupt.

Celtc and HOMFC make very strange bed fellows.

Good point. The Yams are just as culpable as Celtc, IMHO, and should get at least the same amount of pelters as Celtc. If not more.:greengrin

keep the faith
22-11-2010, 11:42 PM
I honestly think we need to stand up and support the refs this weekend.

I dont always agree with them, but the level of abuse is now out of hand and I think a week out to get things in perspective is a good thing. They are only doping their job at the end of the day.

My backing is also a small GTF to Lennon/Reid and the bully/baby boys along the M8. They dont talk for Scottish football and would leave us high and dry in a heartbeat. Only reason they are still here is no other league would have them.

I think a week out, some support from the SPL clubs and a resignation from McDonald (prob would have to happen in any other profession to be honest) would go some way to rebuilding the relationships with refs and Scottish football.

Does this forum back the stance?