Referees on strike

[BoltonHibee]

Spot on.

I wish the ref's would come out and just name Celtc as the boil that needs lancing.

Do the ref's think that it is just Celtic though?

[sundo1875]

so who is gonna be the ref

[DaveF]

Do the ref's think that it is just Celtic though?

Think all this has been discussed earlier in this thread but it's hardly rocket science regarding the source of the current discontent.

[CropleyWasGod]

so who is gonna be the ref

The Mason in the black of course.

[Gettin' Auld]

SFA just saying that our game tomorrow will go ahead.........:greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

It'll be bedlam tomorrow if one of the ref's bails out just before kick off.

This is indeed a possibility. It would appear that they have been lured here under false pretences and the penny is now dropping.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Hamer is the one big name referee that is coming, an established Champions League / international referee. Weird how the OF just so happen to get him.

:rolleyes:

[BoltonHibee]

Think all this has been discussed earlier in this thread but it's hardly rocket science regarding the source of the current discontent.

I know the main issue has been placed at the door of Celtic, but I thought the cooments from the Hearts Chairman or whatever he is probably angered the ref's as well. Or what about Leveins comments after the Rangers Dundee Utd game, a clip shown on you tube a while back on this thread. Or do they not count for the ref's?

I'm getting lost in all of this:confused:

[Hibee Daz]

So our replacement ref has gone home, meanwhile the instigators of this problem could get their game going ahead as scheduled, utterly ridiculous - if any spl game needs to be off tomorrow then it should be Celtc's, give us their ref and leave them without. :bitchy:

:agree::top marks

[Spike Mandela]

Portugese ref's now returned home and you guessed it they were pencilled in for the Hibs game.

As usual the last to suffer are the perpetrators, Neil Lennon and Celtic.

Talk on Radio Scotland about moving officials from Beith V Airdrie game if it fails pitch inspection. What do you bet it deffo fails to allow SPL game to go ahead.

[DaveF]

I know the main issue has been placed at the door of Celtic, but I thought the cooments from the Hearts Chairman or whatever he is probably angered the ref's as well. Or what about Leveins comments after the Rangers Dundee Utd game, a clip shown on you tube a while back on this thread. Or do they not count for the ref's?

I'm getting lost in all of this:confused:

Vlad has been slagging referee's and the establishment ever since he got here so I don't see that as being the problem.

The Celtc agenda is absolutely the reason for the strike with those other things you mention merely added to the equation to give their stance a bit more weight. (IMO)

[WindyMiller]

I know the main issue has been placed at the door of Celtic, but I thought the cooments from the Hearts Chairman or whatever he is probably angered the ref's as well. Or what about Leveins comments after the Rangers Dundee Utd game, a clip shown on you tube a while back on this thread. Or do they not count for the ref's?

I'm getting lost in all of this:confused:

AND THIS PRICK

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/11/23/refs-crisis-aberdeen-boss-mark-mcghee-performs-u-turn-and-slams-scottish-officials-86908-22733481/

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6524795,00.html

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2026384

[Danderhall Hibs]

AND THIS PRICK

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/11/23/refs-crisis-aberdeen-boss-mark-mcghee-performs-u-turn-and-slams-scottish-officials-86908-22733481/

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6524795,00.html

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2026384

It could be all of them though couldn't it? For example our assistant manager's got a 15 match ban - I don't think you get that for just disagreeing with a ref?!

With the ref's not saying much about it we're all just guessing and pinning it on Celtic.

[Part/Time Supporter]

AND THIS PRICK

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/11/23/refs-crisis-aberdeen-boss-mark-mcghee-performs-u-turn-and-slams-scottish-officials-86908-22733481/

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6524795,00.html

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2026384

"Aberdeen manager says a dangerous precedent could be set if foreign officials do well this weekend"

-- shouldn't that be:

"Aberdeen referee says a dangerous precedent could be set if foreign manager does well this weekend"

:cool2:

[Kaiser1962]

McGoo reckons they are striking themselves out of a job. Maybe he's peed that there will be a longer queue at the Jobcentre.


"Aberdeen manager says a dangerous precedent could be set if foreign officials do well this weekend"

-- shouldn't that be:

"Aberdeen referee says a dangerous precedent could be set if foreign manager does well this weekend"

:cool2:

[Part/Time Supporter]

It could be all of them though couldn't it? For example our assistant manager's got a 15 match ban - I don't think you get that for just disagreeing with a ref?!

With the ref's not saying much about it we're all just guessing and pinning it on Celtic.

Yes, but that ban shows that there was a due process in place to punish Adams for misbehaviour. The SFA also changed their rules to allow them to fine Vlad for his Moscow newspaper rants, as he would have previously got away with it due to not actually holding a formal post within Hertz.

I think one of the concerns that has been expressed this week is that Celtc employees and officials have been instigating a "get at the ref" policy for months without any reproach by the SFA, particularly since the McDonald incident. The newspapers reported a week or so after that there was a quid pro quo going on, ie that the SFA wouldn't punish Lennon (and Gary Hooper) if Celtic would go easy on the SFA and their referees. That truce was blown out of the water by Reid's comments at their AGM.

[lyonhibs]

Wouldn't you? :confused:

:agree::agree:

Probably got off the plane, felt their baws shrink up into their abdomen with the cold, realised they'd be refereeing a probably fairly pish game of SPL football in late November and thought "Nah, sack this for a laugh" then went home.

Your move, SFA, you incompentent, gutless bunch of fanjabs.

[Danderhall Hibs]

:agree::agree:

Probably got off the plane, felt their baws shrink up into their abdomen with the cold, realised they'd be refereeing a probably fairly pish game of SPL football in late November and thought "Nah, sack this for a laugh" then went home.

Your move, SFA, you incompentent, gutless bunch of fanjabs.

It certainly doesn't say much about the folk on the admin side of the SFA (or whoever is in charge of getting referees in). Imagine not telling them why they were needed before flying them over!

[WindyMiller]

It could be all of them though couldn't it? For example our assistant manager's got a 15 match ban - I don't think you get that for just disagreeing with a ref?!

With the ref's not saying much about it we're all just guessing and pinning it on Celtic.

Absolutely mate, and every player that claims for a throw-in when he knows he was the last to touch the ball.

Every goalie that misses a cross then goes down "injured".

etc.,etc.,

[Phil D. Rolls]

It certainly doesn't say much about the folk on the admin side of the SFA (or whoever is in charge of getting referees in). Imagine not telling them why they were needed before flying them over!

Equally, who would fly over without knowing why they were needed? I hate to stick up for the SFA, maybe the refs were met by referee pickets and decided to show solidarity with their brothers.

God, this is getting surreal.

[blackpoolhibs]

Absolutely pathetic - I feel really sorry for the fans who are travelling from far away and no idea whether there will be a game or not.

Me? I'll need to put up with the faither-in-law if it doesn't go ahead.

No happy :grr:

The trains from preston are taking 4 hours to get to edinburgh tomorrow, through Glasgow. And 12 hours to get back. :grr: So its the car if we want to go. I spoke to Boltonhibs on the phone earlier, seeing if he wants to go, but as you say we dont know for certain if this game will go ahead. :grr: I'm not sure if we will bother?:boo hoo:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Equally, who would fly over without knowing why they were needed? I hate to stick up for the SFA, maybe the refs were met by referee pickets and decided to show solidarity with their brothers.

God, this is getting surreal.

That's true as well - I thought about that just after I posted. They must've been threatened with violence or something to get them to change their mind...:greengrin

[johnrebus]

Vlad has been slagging referee's and the establishment ever since he got here so I don't see that as being the problem.

The Celtic agenda is absolutely the reason for the strike with those other things you mention merely added to the equation to give their stance a bit more weight. (IMO)

Yes, but what about the manky mob along the road?

Mad Vlad and his pals have been getting away with this conspiracy stuff for years, so why are they not being quoted in all of this?

:confused:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yes, but what about the manky mob along the road?

Mad Vlad and his pals have been getting away with this conspiracy stuff for years, so why are they not being quoted in all of this?

:confused:

Celtic aren't being quoted in all of this either - not by the refs anyway...

[greenginger]

That's true as well - I thought about that just after I posted. They must've been threatened with violence or something to get them to change their mind...:greengrin



May'be he got a signal from his linesman. :greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

Why not? Because the benefit of the doubt would invariably go to the OF team. We're not talking about one 'marginal' (potentially game-changing)l decision here, but three.

If the first did in fact go in favour of United, odds-on the rest would not in order to 'balance up the position'.

And to be honest the excuses you give are poor. If the referee is unsighted the linesman needs to step in and advise to correct him. Did the linesman's flag go up for the penalty? If the linesman is in fact unsighted at the deflected goal the referee isn't and he should over-rule the linesman's flag. An offside call is irrelevant if the ball has been deflected in off a defender.

Finally, if there's an off the ball incident, again the linesman should be alert to it - or even the fourth official.

I'm not citing conspiracy theories here or institutional bias. Simply that in the seconds that follow an apparently marginal decision, there is a pressure to decide in favour of the OF side. It's the path of least resistance.

Better officials manage to resist that pressure; unfortunately others don't.

Beej, not giving excuses mate, just putting forward possible and fairly plausible reasons why the decisions were what they were, and not defaulting to the knee-jerk reaction of immediately calling bias.

The linesman dropped one ricket with the offside, and very possibly could have indicated for the penalty - the clip didnt show his position.

I'd put it down to him not being very good at running the line than anything more sinister. It'd be interesting to see how many more games he got in the aftermath, because he would have had a woeful assesment.

Regarding the detail of the deflected goal, your right, as it didnt in actuality touch the striker there was no offence. However, unless you are 100% sure the linesman is wrong, you dont overrule him as a general rule. As for the off-the-ball, maybe you're right, but we dont know what was happening elsewhere on the pitch that that they were watching anf it was over in what 5 seconds?

[fife hfc]

According to Real radio the Israeli officials have pulled out. Is our game going ahead:grr:

[Kaiser1962]

That's true as well - I thought about that just after I posted. They must've been threatened with violence or something to get them to change their mind...:greengrin

I wonder the reason the SFA told them why they were required in the first place. Could be a 27 pager as well :greengrin

The Portuguese ref turns up at Edinburgh finds out that not only have there been death threats and Neil Lennon's involved but also that you were 527th choice and your predecessors turned the gig down. On top of that, as alluded to earlier, your humbaw's have just gone vertical and are now resting between your lungs trying to get a heat. Not really good is it.

[The_Todd]

Referee strikes aside, the SPL are notoroiusly bad at calling off games at the last minute. Maybe they should take action and call them off now before people start travelling in vain.

[hibee_girl]

Referee strikes aside, the SPL are notoroiusly bad at calling off games at the last minute. Maybe they should take action and call them off now before people start travelling in vain.

:agree:

They should just write this weekend off

[marinello59]

According to Sky the Israeli officials are discussing their position now. This could be the night when incompetence finally becomes an art form.

[The_Todd]

:agree:

They should just write this weekend off

Correct. Write it off and use the weekend to sit down with the refs and the clubs and sort it out.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yes, but what about the manky mob along the road?

Mad Vlad and his pals have been getting away with this conspiracy stuff for years, so why are they not being quoted in all of this?

:confused:

Maybe people were only humouring them when they told them they are a big team? I expect this to be Celtic's next move anyway, put the blame on the Yams, and give the Weejia a get out clause.


I wonder the reason the SFA told them why they were required in the first place. Could be a 27 pager as well :greengrin

The Portuguese ref turns up at Edinburgh finds out that not only have there been death threats and Neil Lennon's involved but also that you were 527th choice and your predecessors turned the gig down. On top of that, as alluded to earlier, your humbaw's have just gone vertical and are now resting between your lungs trying to get a heat. Not really good is it.

:faf:

[Hibs Class]

Celtic aren't being quoted in all of this either - not by the refs anyway...

I know one of the grade 1 refs. I spoke with him earlier this week and I believe that if Celtic had apologised for their conduct that the strike would have been called off.

[pacorosssco]

Ive No sympathy for the ref's . The standard is terrible and dougie whateverhisnameis shouldn't still be a referee and should have been sacked after not resigning. Hugh Dallas should walk too he is a disgrace and always has been.

People are only bothered at the thought of losing a fixture both managers and fans alike.

I hate Lennon but he is right it was a cover up.

SACK the lot of them and replace them. Celtic are a disgrace but always have been and Rangers are no better. Why though do Scottish referees feel the need to jeopardise tv deals that are already much reduced.

Ive had enough of all this sympathy for them.

[Toaods]

What is obviously happening is these Euro refs don't want to marginalise themselves.

The SFA should have simply gone outwith the continent and kept things under wraps. The media are playing at detectives and must have been phoning around every association soing to drum up some info to fan the flames of trouble as there's loads of media mileage in this if it becomes a disaster.

There are plenty people qualified to control this standard of game and money talks and it's a one-off situation....pay over the odds and get the game played.


If I'm one of 10,000+ that turn up at ER tomorrow only to find out the game is off then therefs will never gain an ounce of sympathy or backing from me again.

[Phil D. Rolls]

According to Sky the Israeli officials are discussing their position now. This could be the night when incompetence finally becomes an art form.

The SFA is running out of juice. :agree:

[Westie1875]

I know one of the grade 1 refs. I spoke with him earlier this week and I believe that if Celtic had apologised for their conduct that the strike would have been called off.

They should have made this demand public.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Ive No sympathy for the ref's . The standard is terrible and dougie whateverhisnameis shouldn't still be a referee and should have been sacked after not resigning. Hugh Dallas should walk too he is a disgrace and always has been.

People are only bothered at the thought of losing a fixture both managers and fans alike.

I hate Lennon but he is right it was a cover up.

SACK the lot of them and replace them. Celtic are a disgrace but always have been and Rangers are no better. Why though do Scottish referees feel the need to jeopardise tv deals that are already much reduced.

Ive had enough of all this sympathy for them.

But Lennon was wrong to behave the way he did, and McDonald actually got the decision right on the day. All he is guilty of is bottling out of confronting a very angry and irrational man.

[pacorosssco]

What is obviously happening is these Euro refs don't want to marginalise themselves.

The SFA should have simply gone outwith the continent and kept things under wraps. The media are playing at detectives and must have been phoning around every association soing to drum up some info to fan the flames of trouble as there's loads of media mileage in this if it becomes a disaster.

There are plenty people qualified to control this standard of game and money talks and it's a one-off situation....pay over the odds and get the game played.


If I'm one of 10,000+ that turn up at ER tomorrow only to find out the game is off then therefs will never gain an ounce of sympathy or backing from me again.

probably the most sensible thing to do but the sfa are muppets but ref have already lost all sympathy for me.

Its a case of do as we say or well not give the ball back

well they can stick the ball up their ....

[The_Todd]

Ive No sympathy for the ref's . The standard is terrible.

But is it really? Why do Scottish refs get to do the big UEFA and FIFA gigs if they're so terrible?

Are they really terrible, or are we guilty of over analysing every decision they make thanks mostly to slow motion action replays from every angle imaginable. It's all well and good for Alan Hansen to view an incident 20 times from 20 angles in super slow mo on Match of the Day from his couch in a studio, but the ref sees everything once and at full speed, from one angle. They don't get to think for long either. They have to make snap judgements there and then.

And as for no sympathy, if you have a bad day at the office do you get death threats? Didn't think so.

Can't we cut them a little slack and remember they're just people at the end of the day?

[marinello59]

What is obviously happening is these Euro refs don't want to marginalise themselves.

The SFA should have simply gone outwith the continent and kept things under wraps. The media are playing at detectives and must have been phoning around every association soing to drum up some info to fan the flames of trouble as there's loads of media mileage in this if it becomes a disaster.

There are plenty people qualified to control this standard of game and money talks and it's a one-off situation....pay over the odds and get the game played.


If I'm one of 10,000+ that turn up at ER tomorrow only to find out the game is off then therefs will never gain an ounce of sympathy or backing from me again.

I won't be blaming the refs if that happens. The blame for me will lie squarely with the SFA and SPL who let their contingency plan unravel.

[pacorosssco]

But Lennon was wrong to behave the way he did, and McDonald actually got the decision right on the day. All he is guilty of is bottling out of confronting a very angry and irrational man.


lennon has no class at all but neither have the refs

linesman lost his job so should have mcdonald also an irrational man

[BoltonHibee]

Pa Broon no a happy chap

http://msn.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_6528927,00.html

[pacorosssco]

[QUOTE=The_Todd;2647327]But is it really? Why do Scottish refs get to do the big UEFA and FIFA gigs if they're so terrible?

Are they really terrible, or are we guilty of over analysing every decision they make thanks mostly to slow motion action replays from every angle imaginable. It's all well and good for Alan Hansen to view an incident 20 times from 20 angles in super slow mo on Match of the Day from his couch in a studio, but the ref sees everything once and at full speed, from one angle. They don't get to think for long either. They have to make snap judgements there and then.

And as for no sympathy, if you have a bad day at the office do you get death threats? Didn't think so.


Dont ask a question and answer it. No death threats form me yet but how many refs have has death threats and if i was say a 'policeman' how many death threats do they get in a day . Maybe they should strike?

I didnt start the witch hunt but they are wrong to put games at risk

If I took the huff after a bad day or I was found out to have covered up a mistake the only people I would let down are my colleagues. In this case it is the fans who are being let down. If you cant stand the heat get out the kitchen

[ballengeich]

What is obviously happening is these Euro refs don't want to marginalise themselves.

The SFA should have simply gone outwith the continent and kept things under wraps. The media are playing at detectives and must have been phoning around every association soing to drum up some info to fan the flames of trouble as there's loads of media mileage in this if it becomes a disaster.

There are plenty people qualified to control this standard of game and money talks and it's a one-off situation....pay over the odds and get the game played.


If I'm one of 10,000+ that turn up at ER tomorrow only to find out the game is off then therefs will never gain an ounce of sympathy or backing from me again.

The fault in your argument is that the SFA have tried to keep things under wraps within Europe, but when referees find out what's going on they don't want to take their Scottish colleagues' places. Do you think that referees from other continents would react differently once they knew the facts of the dispute?

Our referees' complaint isn't about criticism of their mistakes - it's about criticism of their motivation and honesty.

[The_Todd]

Dont ask a question and answer it.

Its called a rhetorical question.

[Kaiser1962]

[QUOTE=The_Todd;2647327]But is it really? Why do Scottish refs get to do the big UEFA and FIFA gigs if they're so terrible?
. It's all well and good for Alan Hansen to view an incident 20 times from 20 angles in super slow mo on Match of the Day from his couch in a studio,


But how many times do they do this and then Hansen, Lineker and Shearer are still unable to agree a decision?

[The_Todd]

But how many times do they do this and then Hansen, Lineker and Shearer are still unable to agree a decision?

It just further reinforces my point. If 3 so called experts can't agree on a decision between them with all that help, what chance do the refs have with no help whatsoever?

[Phil D. Rolls]

I won't be blaming the refs if that happens. The blame for me will lie squarely with the SFA and SPL who let their contingency plan unravel.

But how could that happen with this man in charge at the SFA?

http://images.planetf1.com/10/02/800x600/georgepeat_2424173.jpg

I'd trust George Melly to do a better job.

[down-the-slope]

The clubs are in the main to blame for this - followed by the games administrators.....

The 3 tiers of administration in Scotland is being shown up for the Joke it is...Refs employed by SFA and sub-contracted (in effect) to the SPl :rolleyes:

The sooner we have one governing body for everything the better...and some real power and independance to sort out the mess.....

The Refs are right to create a situation where such a long running issue can no longer be ignored

[Toaods]

The fault in your argument is that the SFA have tried to keep things under wraps within Europe, but when referees find out what's going on they don't want to take their Scottish colleagues' places. Do you think that referees from other continents would react differently once they knew the facts of the dispute?

Our referees' complaint isn't about criticism of their mistakes - it's about criticism of their motivation and honesty.

that's not the 'fault' in my argument, it's the reason why they should have taken such action immediately. The problem is they are too insular with a half-baked idea that Euro is best. We get spoon fed crap that we in Europe are the best at everything when it is patently obvious that is not true. Of course we have some very good offficials but so do everyone else.

[Danderhall Hibs]

But is it really? Why do Scottish refs get to do the big UEFA and FIFA gigs if they're so terrible?


Somebody (Two Carpets I think) answered this earlier saying it's nothing to do with ability when we don't get refs at the World Cup so I assume the same goes for the games you refer to.


Its called a rhetorical question.

No a rhetorical question is one that requires no answer because the answer is obvious and doesn't need to be stated.

You stated an answer didn't you? :greengrin

[ballengeich]

that's not the 'fault' in my argument, it's the reason why they should have taken such action immediately. The problem is they are too insular with a half-baked idea that Euro is best. We get spoon fed crap that we in Europe are the best at everything when it is patently obvious that is not true. Of course we have some very good offficials but so do everyone else.

I'm not denying that there are excellent officials outside Europe. My point is that officials brought in from other countries in Europe are withdrawing once they get full information of the background that led to them being brought here. The SFA didn't give them this information before they arrived. Do you think that referees from other continents would be less willing to support their Scottish colleagues?

[tamig]

According to Sky the Israeli officials are discussing their position now. This could be the night when incompetence finally becomes an art form.

Wonder how Celtic would react to getting Israeli officials :hmmm:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm not denying that there are excellent officials outside Europe. My point is that officials brought in from other countries in Europe are withdrawing once they get full information of the background that led to them being brought here. The SFA didn't give them this information before they arrived. Do you think that referees from other continents would be less willing to support their Scottish colleagues?

I could believe that, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't realise something was up. I mean what did the SFA tell them - that our refs were off sick? I really hate to think they could be that stupid.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Wonder how Celtic would react to getting Israeli officials :hmmm:

Depends on what school they went to.

[ballengeich]

I could believe that, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't realise something was up. I mean what did the SFA tell them - that our refs were off sick? I really hate to think they could be that stupid.

On a Radio Scotland programme, Chick Young asked the Israeli referees' representative about this. He indicated that they hadn't realised what was happening in Scotland and that they might not have agreed to come over if they had done. Scottish refereeing disputes will not be headline news even in the sports sections of the Israeli press, so I can understand that they wouldn't have much knowledge of what's happening here. The Portuguese refs seem to have backed out after arriving in Scotland so that suggests a lack of information rather than stupidity. I suspect that the SFA hasn't given complete information to the people they've been trying to recruit.

There are occasional international exchanges of refs (I've been at an SFL game with a Welsh ref) so they may have thought it was a part of that.

[R'Albin]

Sorry if posted already but Dallas has now resigned...amazing night for scottish football:agree:shambolic one though:grr:

[Toaods]

Do you think that referees from other continents would react differently once they knew the facts of the dispute?


in a word...yes.





Sorry if posted already but Dallas has now resigned...amazing night for scottish football:agree:shambolic one though:grr:


Maybe fancies taking control of a couple of Old Firm games over the weekend.

[new malkyhib]

I could believe that, but I find it hard to believe that they didn't realise something was up. I mean what did the SFA tell them - that our refs were off sick? I really hate to think they could be that stupid.

For once we're in agreement, FR.:greengrin

You give the SFA far too much credit with the comment in bold.

[Hibby D]

The trains from preston are taking 4 hours to get to edinburgh tomorrow, through Glasgow. And 12 hours to get back. :grr: So its the car if we want to go. I spoke to Boltonhibs on the phone earlier, seeing if he wants to go, but as you say we dont know for certain if this game will go ahead. :grr: I'm not sure if we will bother?:boo hoo:

Come up! We'll just go to the pub :clapper::dj::partyhibb:cheers:

[ballengeich]

in a word...yes

In a word, why?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Wonder how Celtic would react to getting Israeli officials :hmmm:

:greengrin

You know the frightening thing, I'll bet that was discussed at the SFA when allocating the refs. :bitchy:

[Toaods]

In a word, why?

money.

[ballengeich]

money.

OK - never mind principles like standing by your colleagues in other countries.

You can get people to take on a job for a particular game, but the problems which have led to the top Scottish referees not working this weekend run deeper.

[PaulSmith]

Anyone got a copy of that open letter from Celtic fan associations last season?
It would appear that the SFA has been systematically disabled from Celtic football club and their cohorts.
Wouldn't now surprise me to find some link with Regan and Reid!

[hibs0666]

More really sad than amazing.

I consider myself mad for the footie and was one of a couple of hundred at ibrox last week. When guys Like me are totally sickened then football in Scotland has a serious illness.


Sorry if posted already but Dallas has now resigned...amazing night for scottish football:agree:shambolic one though:grr:

[kaimendhibs]

Why not come out and name celtc as the root cause behind the referees dispute? Why not force celtc and lennon to publicly apologise and retract thier statements regarding referees? Why ask a foreign ref to take charge of a celtc game this weekend? Why not leave celtc idle this weekend? Why not threaten to (and mibbe even do it) deduct points from celtc if they dont apologise?

Because, IMO, they are bottle merchants and will do SFA:grr:

[stoneyburn hibs]

spot on:top marks

should happen but will never happen, because there are too many small minded people in this country

[Hibee87]

Why not come out and name celtc as the root cause behind the referees dispute? Why not force celtc and lennon to publicly apologise and retract thier statements regarding referees? Why ask a foreign ref to take charge of a celtc game this weekend? Why not leave celtc idle this weekend? Why not threaten to (and mibbe even do it) deduct points from celtc if they dont apologise?

Because, IMO, they are bottle merchants and will do SFA:grr:

yeah but if do then its them getting the death threats, celtic wouldnt let ti lie if that happend either it would suit there agenda of 'everyone hates us' and the would then pounce on every other team to be hammered when the manager speaks out of turn. deducting points will never happen unless its on of the non ol firm teams.

as i said earlier both the o/f and the SPL are killing football and there is not much we can do about it except leave at set up our own leaue without them and our own governing body but that is never going to hapen so were stuck with fighting for the scraps off the o/f table sad but true

[Twa Cairpets]

Somebody (Two Carpets I think) answered this earlier saying it's nothing to do with ability when we don't get refs at the World Cup so I assume the same goes for the games you refer to.

Nope, wrong again. Referees get put on the FIFA list as a result of ability and are accorded fixtures acordingly - there's more games to go round, so the political issues are less to the fore than for World Cup/euro games (although anything Blatter is involved in is by definition intensely political). I think there is a quota based on size of country, but may be wrong on this point. FIFA refs in Scotland have the FIFA badge in their kit. Non FIFA (i.e. domestic fixture only refs) only have the SFA badge, if you want to play "Spot the FIFA ref" at ER.

Hope this clears up the point for you, the latest in a long line of misconceived self satisfied little digs.

[marinello59]

STV have reported that the Portuguese refs were told they were over as part of an exchange scheme. You really couldn't make this stuff up. :bitchy:

[Capt Mainwaring]

Totally agree that the SFA have let the referees down over this whole affair. Where have the sanctions been for the completely inappropriate remarks made by Messrs lennon, Reid, Hooper, Reid and Romanov? ( accepting that the rants of Vlad are probably seen as those of a lunatic with a minimal grasp on reality rather than a serious perspective on Scottish football).

No-one at Hampden has the balls to stand up to Celtic and too many SFA Officials are dressed up amateurs trying to run a professional business.

I have a lot of sympathy with the referees - the criticism has gone way over the top, but if they are being honest with themselves there is one one root cause of this - Celtic (again you can dismiss Mad Vlad as the rantings of a Madman). So why punish all other Scottish clubs who have not brought their integrity into question.

Games postponed tomorrow will have big financial impact on smaller clubs - particularly in the SFL.

The Referees should have had the b****cks to stike aginst Celtic only.

[Bishop Hibee]

STV have reported that the Portuguese refs were told they were over as part of an exchange scheme. You really couldn't make this stuff up. :bitchy:

Just back from a birthday nosh up and drink to this! I could understand if it was the weather that put them off :greengrin

Seriously though, if this is true then the SFA hierarchy will have to consider their positions. Beyond a farce.

[ScottB]

STV have reported that the Portuguese refs were told they were over as part of an exchange scheme. You really couldn't make this stuff up. :bitchy:

Which clearly shows that despite the SFA trying to downplay the reasons for the strike, they obviously do think it's bad, since they apparently think it's bad enough that any self respecting foreign ref would tell them to stick it.

From the quotes on the BBC the ones who have come also didn't know, with the Israelis saying they might not have come had they known.


Whole lot of the SFA board should be sacked, just a shame they seem to essentially employ themselves.


Utterly fantastic system that!

[greenlex]

****ing shambles. End off

[nonshinyfinish]

STV have reported that the Portuguese refs were told they were over as part of an exchange scheme. You really couldn't make this stuff up. :bitchy:

Surely not, come on to f...

[hibee_girl]

STV have reported that the Portuguese refs were told they were over as part of an exchange scheme. You really couldn't make this stuff up. :bitchy:

Isn't that what they told the Polish refs too?

[ballengeich]

Have the SFA tried to bring foreign referees here by concealing the reasons for their recruitment? If that's the case, then disciplinary action is required.

[steviecarnie]

im now actually starting to think celtic may have done scottish football a favour here, the more that's coming out due to there moaning and whining, the more it shows just what every club is up against, sheer and utter incompetence an organisation rotten to the core!!!

[lyonhibs]

STV have reported that the Portuguese refs were told they were over as part of an exchange scheme. You really couldn't make this stuff up. :bitchy:

Spectacular - like a really, really, REALLY **** ERASMUS scheme.

The SFA have been taking lessons from Hearts on "How to produce gobsmacking headlines when you've exhausted all normal means"

[Twiglet]

Firstly, if the foreign refs had been told they were part of an "exchange programme" surely their FA would have said that to them too and surely had at least an inkling of what was going on.

Secondly, how are UEFA not involved yet?

Thirdly, and finally, how would you react if the game got called off because of snow? I have no idea what it's like up in Perth at the moment, but if, after all this St Johnstone couldn't get down here, all i could do would be laugh (not that I can make it tomorrow anyway).

[Hibs Class]

im now actually starting to think celtic may have done scottish football a favour here, the more that's coming out due to there moaning and whining, the more it shows just what every club is up against, sheer and utter incompetence an organisation rotten to the core!!!

Celtic have acted only in their own interests throughout all this. If they end up doing Scottish football a favour it will be by accident rather than design

[TornadoHibby]

Celtic have acted only in their own interests throughout all this. If they end up doing Scottish football a favour it will be by accident rather than design

:top marks

Absolutely! :agree:

[The_Todd]

im now actually starting to think celtic may have done scottish football a favour here, the more that's coming out due to there moaning and whining, the more it shows just what every club is up against, sheer and utter incompetence an organisation rotten to the core!!!

That's how they'll paint it. Don't fall for it.

[Dashing Bob S]

Hopefully, when the dust settles, this will be seen as down to the sectarian culture, which is sadly maintained by football in this country, through the biggest clubs. I worry though, with what we've seen that Scottish football is pretty much unfixable.

We're too bigoted and corrupt a nation to be able to run a league system. The quicker we're subsumed into a British or North European League, the better.

[bingo70]

Hopefully, when the dust settles, this will be seen as down to the sectarian culture, which is sadly maintained by football in this country, through the biggest clubs. I worry though, with what we've seen that Scottish football is pretty much unfixable.

We're too bigoted and corrupt a nation to be able to run a league system. The quicker we're subsumed into a British or North European League, the better.

sotty but thats bullcrap Bob, excuse my language if you will, as a nation we're fine, it's just those weejie dirtbags that drag us down.

i realise theres loads of them but if we can just get red of the rantic then IMO scotland and scottish football would grow into the excellent country we could be

[tony higgins]

weejie dirtbags

:confused:

[Dunbar Hibee]

Is the game on or not?

[joe breezy]

Hear hear Bob, we do need another league of the British Isles or Europe. Canadian teams play in the NHL

[WindyMiller]

sotty but thats bullcrap Bob, excuse my language if you will, as a nation we're fine, it's just those weejie dirtbags that drag us down.

i realise theres loads of them but if we can just get red of the rantic then IMO scotland and scottish football would grow into the excellent country we could be

Unfortunately the OF support is Scotland wide and the sectarianism that goes with them.
I think Dashing Bob is right, sadly.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Is the game on or not?

Apparently yes. I guess the Maltese referee (Christian Lautier) will be switched from the Beith v Airdrie Scottish Cup game when it is postponed due to the weather.

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPL/SPL/Round%2015%2827-28%20NOV%29.pdf

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/ScottishCup/6_%20SC10-11_3rd%20Replays%2027_11.pdf

If the Israeli referees withdraw the games at Killie and Hamilton have had it. The Hertz game at Mothewell will also be in trouble because they will only have two sets of referees available for three games (Challenge Cup final has the Maltese refs and Dundee Utd v Huns has the guys from Luxembourg).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/26/scotland-portuguese-referees

[R'Albin]

I heard that were ment to be getting the Falkirk Morton ref...

[Part/Time Supporter]

I heard that were ment to be getting the Falkirk Morton ref...

That was off as soon as the three sets of Poles didn't turn up. The contingency for that was for the Portuguese and the Luxembourgers to referee two games each. ie the Portuguese ref was only meant to do Motherwell v Hertz, but after the Poles withdrew he was also given Hibs v Saints. Now he's gone home as well.

The only alternative now for the Hibs v Saints game is the Maltese referee for the Beith v Airdrie game. According to local Huns that game is definitely off due to the snow.

http://forum.followfollow.com/showthread.php?t=711117

If the Israelis don't turn up (as was rumoured last night), I can't see how more than 2 games can be refereed on each day.

[hibiedude]

They have got the power to make change happen.

First sign of decent -warning to the team captain to cut it out completely.

There after yellow cards then red cards for further decent . The message will get through.

Ever wonder why the Old Firm players don't mob round referees when a decision goes against them on Euro Football nights. They would be carded without hesitation. They abuse our refs because they won't stand up to them. Its time they all grew a pair !

I think you missed my point

I know the Refs have the power to sort out the old firm but my points is they have allowed Celtic Rangers to bully them into giving them the bulk of decisions that go in there favour for as long as I can remember and it aint going to stop now because Refs are getting death threats or being abused.

Neil Lennon’s interview yesterday told us that because he doesn’t think there is a problem hence his take on things.

Now we have Hugh Dallas getting the boot for sending emails regarding the pope's visit to Scotland last Month.

You gave the way forward when you pointed out that the old firm never get involved with Refs decisions when playing in Europe.

Why not have a pool of European Referees who are sent all over Europe on match days- why does it have to be a Scottish Ref in charge of a Scottish game?

The champions league is a perfect example of how this works.

[R'Albin]

I just don't understand why we didnt
Just call the games off and call this week a write off, or at least be honest of why we needed the officials,but now if they are called off today I would be raging if I was a st j fan and travelled up to Edinburgh ANd it was off or for that matter if I had travelled from Aberdeen.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I think you missed my point

I know the Refs have the power to sort out the old firm but my points is they have allowed Celtic Rangers to bully them into giving them the bulk of decisions that go in there favour for as long as I can remember and it aint going to stop now because Refs are getting death threats or being abused.

Neil Lennon’s interview yesterday told us that because he doesn’t think there is a problem hence his take on things.

Now we have Hugh Dallas getting the boot for sending emails regarding the pope's visit to Scotland last Month.

You gave the way forward when you pointed out that the old firm never get involved with Refs decisions when playing in Europe.

Why not have a pool of European Referees who are sent all over Europe on match days- why does it have to be a Scottish Ref in charge of a Scottish game?

The champions league is a perfect example of how this works.

Because it would be absurdly expensive and means referees have to spend the whole weekend away from their families.

[Kaiser1962]

If that's true,....Well it simply can't be .. It just can't be!

A tenner says it is! I wouldnt rule anything out here,

[hibiedude]

Because it would be absurdly expensive and means referees have to spend the whole weekend away from their families.

Football is a billion pound industry and there is thousands of family men spending longer than weekends away from there families pursuing there working commitments :confused:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Football is a billion pound industry and there is thousands of family men spending longer than weekends away from there families pursuing there working commitments :confused:

Not in Scotland!

[Kaiser1962]

Hopefully, when the dust settles, this will be seen as down to the sectarian culture, which is sadly maintained by football in this country, through the biggest clubs. I worry though, with what we've seen that Scottish football is pretty much unfixable.

We're too bigoted and corrupt a nation to be able to run a league system. The quicker we're subsumed into a British or North European League, the better.

This is the saddest :top marks I have ever given. 30 pages of this proves there is no trust and conspiracies are seen everywhere. Wrong decisions are seen as absolute proof of corruption and bias. The position of the Scottish league, indeed Scottish society, is practically untenable.

[hibiedude]

Not in Scotland!

If FiFA were to go down this route it wouldn’t cost the SFA a penny

[Toaods]

Who's the GREAT guy in the black? (repeat until penalty given)

[ionahibby]

So whats the script is the game going ahead :confused:

[Golden Bear]

So whats the script is the game going ahead :confused:

It still looks likely.

The Beith v Airdrie Utd Scottish Cup ties has been called off so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Officials who were assigned to take charge will now be at ER.

[ionahibby]

It still looks likely.

The Beith v Airdrie Utd Scottish Cup ties has been called off so I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Officials who were assigned to take charge will now be at ER.

Great thanks for the update! total shambles though pretty embarrsing for the sfa!

[Golden Bear]

Great thanks for the update! total shambles though pretty embarrsing for the sfa!

That's just my reading of it and I've been wrong before. (well occasionally:wink:)

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nope, wrong again. Referees get put on the FIFA list as a result of ability and are accorded fixtures acordingly - there's more games to go round, so the political issues are less to the fore than for World Cup/euro games (although anything Blatter is involved in is by definition intensely political). I think there is a quota based on size of country, but may be wrong on this point. FIFA refs in Scotland have the FIFA badge in their kit. Non FIFA (i.e. domestic fixture only refs) only have the SFA badge, if you want to play "Spot the FIFA ref" at ER.

Hope this clears up the point for you, the latest in a long line of misconceived self satisfied little digs.

With the patronising manner of your posts it comes as no surprise to me that you are a qualified referee. It must be part of the training course.

[The_Todd]

DBS, I think you're sadly right. This isn't even the tip on the iceberg, there's such an ingrained sectarian issue in Scotland, especially in the West, it doesn't matter who's in charge at the SFA or who's in charge of the referees someone somewhere will take the hump because of religion.

We need to either ditch the Old Firm (or possibly just Celtic), or we need to ditch Scottish Football (but go where?) and sadly I don't see either happening. That the Catholic Church can demand someone at the SFA is sacked and succeed in getting rid of their target is a worrying sign. That Celtic can succeed in wrecking a full football fixture card for almost every league team in Scotland with their paranoid bullcrap is even worse. What have the SPL and SFA done to combat this paranoia? Nothing. Instead of standing by our refs, they go looking for foreign refs. What the football authorities needed to do was grow a set and stop letting the tail wag the dog.

This weekend has seriously depressed me where it comes to Scottish football and I don't know where we go from here. Celtic will continue to call foul and "conspiracy" when they don't get a corner, throw-in, free kick because they know the SFA won't do anything other than pander to them. I'll wait with baited breath for any action to be taken against them for Lennon, Hoopers and Reid rants.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Hopefully, when the dust settles, this will be seen as down to the sectarian culture, which is sadly maintained by football in this country, through the biggest clubs. I worry though, with what we've seen that Scottish football is pretty much unfixable.

We're too bigoted and corrupt a nation to be able to run a league system. The quicker we're subsumed into a British or North European League, the better.

DBS, I think you're sadly right. This isn't even the tip on the iceberg, there's such an ingrained sectarian issue in Scotland, especially in the West, it doesn't matter who's in charge at the SFA or who's in charge of the referees someone somewhere will take the hump because of religion.

We need to either ditch the Old Firm (or possibly just Celtic), or we need to ditch Scottish Football (but go where?) and sadly I don't see either happening. That the Catholic Church can demand someone at the SFA is sacked and succeed in getting rid of their target is a worrying sign. That Celtic can succeed in wrecking a full football fixture card for almost every league team in Scotland with their paranoid bullcrap is even worse. What have the SPL and SFA done to combat this paranoia? Nothing. Instead of standing by our refs, they go looking for foreign refs. What the football authorities needed to do was grow a set and stop letting the tail wag the dog.

This weekend has seriously depressed me where it comes to Scottish football and I don't know where we go from here. Celtic will continue to call foul and "conspiracy" when they don't get a corner, throw-in, free kick because they know the SFA won't do anything other than pander to them. I'll wait with baited breath for any action to be taken against them for Lennon, Hoopers and Reid rants.

:top marks

As a nation this drags us down, it is a new low.

[Twa Cairpets]

With the patronising manner of your posts it comes as no surprise to me that you are a qualified referee. It must be part of the training course.

Ah, personal abuse. Well done.

If only I had my yellow card with me...

[Danderhall Hibs]

Ah, personal abuse. Well done.

If only I had my yellow card with me...

It's not personal abuse it's a generalisation about football referees.

[Twa Cairpets]

It's not personal abuse it's a generalisation about football referees.

Hmm. So you do just have a generalised dislike of referees then? Kind of explains a lot. Did Bob Valentine steal your sweeties when you were a bairn?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hmm. So you do just have a generalised dislike of referees then? Kind of explains a lot. Did Bob Valentine steal your sweeties when you were a bairn?

No, just the patronising and incompetent ones.:greengrin

Seriously though I don't dislike referees I just think this action's not been thought out well.

When I played rugby I had respect for the refs like you do in rugby. But I think rugby referees (in general) have a better manner and that's part of the reason they get more respect. Nothing to do with the class divide between rugby and football and all the other drivel that gets spouted about it.

[Twa Cairpets]

One thing thats not been mentioned is how will the players react to everything this week. Do you think they'll be on their best behaviour? Are they unikely to get a way with stuff that would be perfectly acceptable (hard tackles, for example) that might be seen as OTT in Malta. How will the ref handle what is likely to be one of th ebigger crowds he has been in front of. You'd have to imagine the pace of the SPL is somehat different to Malta.

[sundo1875]

The fourth offical is a women

[Danderhall Hibs]

One thing thats not been mentioned is how will the players react to everything this week. Do you think they'll be on their best behaviour? Are they unikely to get a way with stuff that would be perfectly acceptable (hard tackles, for example) that might be seen as OTT in Malta. How will the ref handle what is likely to be one of th ebigger crowds he has been in front of. You'd have to imagine the pace of the SPL is somehat different to Malta.

I think the players will chance their arm - the orders from the managers will be "play the ref, see what you can get away with" I reckon.

[Removed]

The fourth offical is a women

:worms:

[Twa Cairpets]

No, just the patronising and incompetent ones.:greengrin

Seriously though I don't dislike referees I just think this action's not been thought out well.

When I played rugby I had respect for the refs like you do in rugby. But I think rugby referees (in general) have a better manner and that's part of the reason they get more respect. Nothing to do with the class divide between rugby and football and all the other drivel that gets spouted about it.

You played rugby? Well that explains it all now...:wink:

The rugby comparison is one that is often raised, and the acceptance of a referees decision is clearly ingrained within the majority of players. However, I do think that this is often overplayed because of the nature of the sport compared to football. Im no rugby fan, but it seems the main decisions relate to infractions in rucks and mauls, and the general intensity of the game is less. Football tackles are instant and high speed, and the margin between clean and foul can be minute, therefore the reactions to the decisions can be likewise intense and instant.

Just a thought

[sambajustice]

So the game is on then, by default! Only because the Beith Airdrie game is off!

[Danderhall Hibs]

You played rugby? Well that explains it all now...:wink:

The rugby comparison is one that is often raised, and the acceptance of a referees decision is clearly ingrained within the majority of players. However, I do think that this is often overplayed because of the nature of the sport compared to football. Im no rugby fan, but it seems the main decisions relate to infractions in rucks and mauls, and the general intensity of the game is less. Football tackles are instant and high speed, and the margin between clean and foul can be minute, therefore the reactions to the decisions can be likewise intense and instant.

Just a thought

Maybe a lot of decisions are from rucks and mauls, not sure if they're the main decisions though - those would probably be was there downward pressure on the ball over the line, was it a professional foul - generally decisions that would give the attacking team a try, although I suppose are you offside at the ruck/maul could result in a penalty.

I think a big difference between the sports is that football refs demand respect while rugby referees try to earn respect.

[johnrebus]

Hopefully, when the dust settles, this will be seen as down to the sectarian culture, which is sadly maintained by football in this country, through the biggest clubs. I worry though, with what we've seen that Scottish football is pretty much unfixable.

We're too bigoted and corrupt a nation to be able to run a league system. The quicker we're subsumed into a British or North European League, the better.

:top marks

Absolutely spot on.

And don't lets all be fooled that it is confined to the West Coast of Scotland, you will find it in every cormer of the country - from Stranraer (esp. Stranraer) to Wick and then onto the Islands.

The politicians attempt to sort out the country's religous bigotry problem have been akin to putting a sticking plaster on ninety degree burns.

It has always been a case of 'lets just ignore it and hope it goes away'.

The police (and stewarding) attitude is particulary depressing. Ignore all the Old Firm party songs at matches, but we'll flex our muscles and turf out some daft wee laddie from Inversness if he annoys us..........,

God help us all

:boo hoo:

[Twa Cairpets]

Maybe a lot of decisions are from rucks and mauls, not sure if they're the main decisions though - those would probably be was there downward pressure on the ball over the line, was it a professional foul - generally decisions that would give the attacking team a try, although I suppose are you offside at the ruck/maul could result in a penalty.

I think a big difference between the sports is that football refs demand respect while rugby referees try to earn respect.

Do players try to con the ref as much as they do in football in rugby? Genuine question, I don't know having been to one rugby match in my life. I think the notion of "respect" is a bit spurious - what does it actually mean? But if rugby players generally arent claiming for everything or intentionally trying to deceive, it must be easier to get most decisions right, and therefore be seen to be doing a better job?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Do players try to con the ref as much as they do in football in rugby? Genuine question, I don't know having been to one rugby match in my life. I think the notion of "respect" is a bit spurious - what does it actually mean? But if rugby players generally arent claiming for everything or intentionally trying to deceive, it must be easier to get most decisions right, and therefore be seen to be doing a better job?

Not in my experience, although you do try an play the ref and steal the extra half yard etc where you can. You get to know the refs that are a bit softer as well and take more chances when they're in charge.

You don't put your hand up every time the ball goes out of play to try and claim the throw-in to the lineout though. Football's ridiculous in that respect.

[jdships]

You played rugby? Well that explains it all now...:wink:

The rugby comparison is one that is often raised, and the acceptance of a referees decision is clearly ingrained within the majority of players. However, I do think that this is often overplayed because of the nature of the sport compared to football. Im no rugby fan, but it seems the main decisions relate to infractions in rucks and mauls, and the general intensity of the game is less. Football tackles are instant and high speed, and the margin between clean and foul can be minute, therefore the reactions to the decisions can be likewise intense and instant.

Just a thought

Re the highlighted part .
You must be having a laugh :yawn:
The physical contact in rugby alone raises the level of intensity above anything found in football
I have played both codes at a reasonable level and seen it first hand .
Rugby players are "brought up" from day one on the premise
DO NOT ABUSE THE REFEREE . SHOW HIM RESPECT AND HE WILL LIKEWISE TO YOU . WITHOUT A REFEREE WE DO NOT HAVE A GAME
How about it Lennon et al ?

Danderhall Hibs makes a very good point.
I think a big difference between the sports is that football refs demand respect while rugby referees try to earn respect.
:thumbsup:

I have a feeling that this mess really goes back to the fact that the OF are the largest supported teams in the country by a mile.and by virtue of that they think they can "run" Scottish football
With this in mind if something isn't done at the very top , the game as we have known/enjoyed it will disapear and we will be left with a facsimile of a League set up

I seriously feel that I could quite easily find something else to do on a Saturday afternoon if there is no serious attempt to "sort out" Scottish Football sooner than later :dunno:

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

The Maltese ref's gonna find it rather chilly compared to back home. Wonder if he's a Hibernian's fan? :wink:

[seanraff07]

I'm just about to leave from Mid Calder to go to my Grans down in Leith before the game so before i leave, is the game definitely on? Don't want to waste my time.:bitchy:

[Gettin' Auld]

I'm just about to leave from Mid Calder to go to my Grans down in Leith before the game so before i leave, is the game definitely on? Don't want to waste my time.:bitchy:

It was mentioned on the 11:00AM news that all SPL games are ON. :thumbsup:

[Hibbyradge]

I think a big difference between the sports is that football refs demand respect while rugby referees try to earn respect.

That's a remarkable view, DH.

The difference for me is that rugby players give respect and football players, and fans, disrespect. And that behaviour is not just tolerated, it's institutionalised.. "Part and parcel of the game". :blah:

"They get £800 so they should be prepared for the abuse." :blah: I re=cently heard the Spotsound pundits having a laugh at the fact the Motherwell had recently swapped around the home and away dug-outs so they were closer to the linesman.

I've never heard a rugby fan launch the kind of abuse that I hear at football matches.

Did you ever see Javier Mascherano allowing a referee to earn respect?

Or John Terry, or Neil Lennon etc etc.

If a rugby player spoke to a ref like that, they would be off the park.

Also, there have been incidents when players have man handled the referee. If that ever happened in rugby, the player would be banned sine die.

[seanraff07]

It was mentioned on the 11:00AM news that all SPL games are ON. :thumbsup:

Cheers mate :thumbsup:

[Hibbyradge]

I think a big difference between the sports is that football refs demand respect while rugby referees try to earn respect.


That's some generalisation.

My view is that rugby players are taught to respect the referee from the outset.

[Gettin' Auld]

Cheers mate :thumbsup:
:scarf:

[Danderhall Hibs]

That's a remarkable view, DH.

The difference for me is that rugby players give respect and football players, and fans, disrespect. And that behaviour is not just tolerated, it's institutionalised.. "Part and parcel of the game". :blah:

"They get £800 so they should be prepared for the abuse." :blah: I re=cently heard the Spotsound pundits having a laugh at the fact the Motherwell had recently swapped around the home and away dug-outs so they were closer to the linesman.

I've never heard a rugby fan launch the kind of abuse that I hear at football matches.

Did you ever see Javier Mascherano allowing a referee to earn respect?

Or John Terry, or Neil Lennon etc etc.

If a rugby player spoke to a ref like that, they would be off the park.

Also, there have been incidents when players have man handled the referee. If that ever happened in rugby, the player would be banned sine die.

That's a fair point as well - they may be well paid but they don't deserve the abuse they get from fans (although based on the results of this poll things may be about to change :wink: :greengrin). I do think the football ref's are all about saying I'm the boss - all the finger wagging and dramatic flashing of cards etc is all designed to give of a sense of superiority.

Refs and touch judges have been pushed on ocassion in rugby as well - see here (http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/heineken/news/1995900.htm) looks like 6 months is the accepted ban for that offence.

[son of haggart]

That's some generalisation.

My view is that rugby players are taught to respect the referee from the outset.

I think it goes right through from mini rugby up to internationals (where it is begining to be eroded due to 'professionalism' - eg the blood cheat incidents)

Although I am entirely a football man, and have never played rugby, I have joined my 9 year old son up with a local mini rugby team, having seen the way Little Leagues and youth football goes, with parents screaming abuse at officials, and managers of kids encouraging them to cheat.

If my son was good enough at both I'd want him to play football any day - more enjoyable game - but for building up the skills to be a good citizen, team skills, respect for the law etc rugby is streets ahead (as are most martial arts)

[DaveF]

You don't put your hand up every time the ball goes out of play to try and claim the throw-in to the lineout though. Football's ridiculous in that respect.

It absolutely is, along with the laughable feigning injury situations and a host of other pain in the arse things that go on in football.

However, while rugby players show respect to the referee to his face that won't stop them doing their best to stretch the rules in a game whether it be by stamping, headbutting, eye gouging, high shots, bringing scrums down (:yawn:), faking blood and so on....

However at least rugby administrators have the balls to amend regulations and deal with things as the times change. Football is the exact opposite.

[Twa Cairpets]

Re the highlighted part .
You must be having a laugh :yawn:
The physical contact in rugby alone raises the level of intensity above anything found in football
I have played both codes at a reasonable level and seen it first hand .
Rugby players are "brought up" from day one on the premise
DO NOT ABUSE THE REFEREE . SHOW HIM RESPECT AND HE WILL LIKEWISE TO YOU . WITHOUT A REFEREE WE DO NOT HAVE A GAME
How about it Lennon et al ?

Danderhall Hibs makes a very good point.
I think a big difference between the sports is that football refs demand respect while rugby referees try to earn respect.


What I meant was that the nature of rugby tends to be very much more staccato. Scrums, rucks, mauls, lineouts etc. The ball tends to be in open play much less than in football, and the speed of movement of the ball round the pitch and the overall pace of the game is much less.

Whilst the challenges are designed to be more physical in rugby because thats what the game is, the nature of the impacts are different. A full blooded tackle of shoulder to thigh in rugby will cause a different type of reaction to that of a stud crashing into a standing ankle in football because a tackle was 0.25 seconds late.

The point about players/managers attitudes is important. If they go out knowing that abusing and hassling refs is unacceptable, then the number of flashpoints that refs have to deal with is reduced, and their performances by default become perceived as better. It's the positive opposite of a vicious circle.

[Hibbyradge]

T I do think the football ref's are all about saying I'm the boss - all the finger wagging and dramatic flashing of cards etc is all designed to give of a sense of superiority.


I wonder how many referees there are in the world. None of them seem to get the respect afforded to rugby refs.

I haven't seen a referee wagging their finger in a long time. I've seen plenty players doing it though.

[PaulSmith]

Hearts game tomorrow, Israeli referee and two asst's from Portugal with an Israeli 4th official.

How the hell will than lot communicate with each other.

p.s still showing as Andy Tait as 4th official at the Hibs game and no mention of Morag Pirie who SSN just reported as doing that job

[Hibbyradge]

I think it goes right through from mini rugby up to internationals (where it is begining to be eroded due to 'professionalism' - eg the blood cheat incidents)

Although I am entirely a football man, and have never played rugby, I have joined my 9 year old son up with a local mini rugby team, having seen the way Little Leagues and youth football goes, with parents screaming abuse at officials, and managers of kids encouraging them to cheat.

If my son was good enough at both I'd want him to play football any day - more enjoyable game - but for building up the skills to be a good citizen, team skills, respect for the law etc rugby is streets ahead (as are most martial arts)

Exactly.

Football players learn how to "respect" the referee on the terraces as kids.

They then quickly and easily transfer this knowledge into their playing role and develop it until they're adults.

[Hibs90]

Ok, having stayed away from all this until now, can someone give a brief description of events from the last few days please? More importantly, is the game on definatly?

[Hibbyradge]

Ok, having stayed away from all this until now, can someone give a brief description of events from the last few days please? More importantly, is the game on definatly?

The refs are on strike.

Some refs aren't.

The games on at the moment.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Exactly.

Football players learn how to "respect" the referee on the terraces as kids.

They then quickly and easily transfer this knowledge into their playing role and develop it until they're adults.

Well 78% of Hibs fans now appear to be going to give the referees some respect so that should rub off on the next generation of players and give us a radically changed game in the future. Hooray for the striking refs!:greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

Hearts game tomorrow, Israeli referee and two asst's from Portugal with an Israeli 4th official.

How the hell will than lot communicate with each other.

In English, I imagine.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hearts game tomorrow, Israeli referee and two asst's from Portugal with an Israeli 4th official.

How the hell will than lot communicate with each other.

p.s still showing as Andy Tait as 4th official at the Hibs game and no mention of Morag Pirie who SSN just reported as doing that job

I'm just delighted to hear that they're planning to communicate with eachother. Another 1st for Hibs and Easter Road!

[hibiedude]

As it Stands the game is on unless the weather conditions prove otherwise

[Gettin' Auld]

I wanted us to get this ref!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86AJje3ElDc

[Littlest Hobo]

Two words= Sin Bins. Players abusing, cheating refs stick them in a sin bin for ten minutes.

If a manager/coach abuses a ref/fourth official = Take a player off the field for ten minutes.


This will affect their tacticts, might cost them a goal and might even cost them the points.

Why not give it a try.:confused::tin hat:

Gets ready for the usual (oh ye canny dae that replies)

[PaulSmith]

In English, I imagine.

I know, it's ridiculous to think that the Portugese officials might not know the English language ;)
ps, I'm serious here but is English the main language in Israel or do they speak Hebrew?

[Twa Cairpets]

Two words= Sin Bins. Players abusing, cheating refs stick them in a sin bin for ten minutes.

If a manager/coach abuses a ref/fourth official = Take a player off the field for ten minutes.

This will affect their tacticts, might cost them a goal and might even cost them the points.

Why not give it a try.:confused::tin hat:

Gets ready for the usual (oh ye canny dae that replies)

I've always thought that would be a better solution than issuing a caution, especially for dissent, as it has a direct impact on the game where the dissent occurred.

Also would have the immediate impact of taking some of the heat out of a situation and allows a player to calm down. Can't see too many negatives, as long as the criteria for sin-binning were clearly understood. Could be managed by the 4th official too, to ensure they missed 10 mins playing time to avoid team mates time wasting.

[jdships]

Two words= Sin Bins. Players abusing, cheating refs stick them in a sin bin for ten minutes.

If a manager/coach abuses a ref/fourth official = Take a player off the field for ten minutes.


This will affect their tacticts, might cost them a goal and might even cost them the points.

Why not give it a try.:confused::tin hat:

Gets ready for the usual (oh ye canny dae that replies)


:top marks
Have advocated that for years !!
It works in rugby, ice hockey , basketball and probably more.
It punishes those who try to "play the system"
As you say give it a try what do we have to lose ?

:bitchy:

[fife hfc]

Two words= Sin Bins. Players abusing, cheating refs stick them in a sin bin for ten minutes.

If a manager/coach abuses a ref/fourth official = Take a player off the field for ten minutes.


This will affect their tacticts, might cost them a goal and might even cost them the points.

Why not give it a try.:confused::tin hat:

Gets ready for the usual (oh ye canny dae that replies)


Rugby has used this and the moving the ball forward 10 metres to very good effect. If the ball ends up just outside your box and the opposition score from it you'll soon learn to shut up. Rugby players disagree with ref decisions but they don't go about chasing him all over the pitch.

Its also about respect and in rugby the ref keeps on communicating with the players about what he wants. In football if the ref kept on communicating with the players during play then maybe respect will be earned both ways. sometimes players find it difficult from week to week due to frustration over different refs and the way they interpret situations. If they communicate what they want then a mutual respect will develop.

[NYHibby]

:top marks
Have advocated that for years !!
It works in rugby, ice hockey , basketball and probably more.
It punishes those who try to "play the system"
As you say give it a try what do we have to lose ?

:bitchy:

Basketball?

[nonshinyfinish]

I know, it's ridiculous to think that the Portugese officials might not know the English language ;)
ps, I'm serious here but is English the main language in Israel or do they speak Hebrew?

My assumption is that anyone referreeing at a level where you might get European games will surely have to speak a reasonable amount of English. And that the SFA/SPL would have checked if the referees speak English before asking them to referee games featuring mainly English-speaking players.

That said, they have arsed up almost every other detail, so maybe you're right...

[Toaods]

Basketball?

aye, apparently the Hoops are kicking up fu.....:greengrin

[Littlest Hobo]

I've always thought that would be a better solution than issuing a caution, especially for dissent, as it has a direct impact on the game where the dissent occurred.

Also would have the immediate impact of taking some of the heat out of a situation and allows a player to calm down. Can't see too many negatives, as long as the criteria for sin-binning were clearly understood. Could be managed by the 4th official too, to ensure they missed 10 mins playing time to avoid team mates time wasting.

Spot on about having a direct impact on the game against the team you comitted the offence against.
:agree:

[Golden Bear]

Apparently we've got a female fourth official .... What is she has an irrational hormonal tantrum and starts crying :greengrin:duck:

She'll fit in well with some of the players.

:greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

In rugby the decisions are much more clear cut. Offside is offside none of this active or inactive nonsense. There is no opinion on whether something is deliberate or not, its an offense. As far as i remember the only concession was "accidental" offside resulted in a free kick as opposed to a penalty. While the ref spoke to you all the way through the game he was not subject to dog's abuse by those team members who disagreed with him. If you went nose to nose with a rugby official in the manner of Lennon at Tynecastle your ban would be measured in years and not games.



No, just the patronising and incompetent ones.:greengrin

Seriously though I don't dislike referees I just think this action's not been thought out well.

When I played rugby I had respect for the refs like you do in rugby. But I think rugby referees (in general) have a better manner and that's part of the reason they get more respect. Nothing to do with the class divide between rugby and football and all the other drivel that gets spouted about it.

[Arch Stanton]

Two words= Sin Bins. Players abusing, cheating refs stick them in a sin bin for ten minutes.

If a manager/coach abuses a ref/fourth official = Take a player off the field for ten minutes.


This will affect their tacticts, might cost them a goal and might even cost them the points.

Why not give it a try.:confused::tin hat:

Gets ready for the usual (oh ye canny dae that replies)

Not sure about sin bins - but I did think that there should be a points total against the team - so that none of this nonsense about not giving a second yellow because he is already booked. It also means the team could be booked for bench misbehaviour or things like general time wasting or the wall not moving back.

It also makes sense to me that the punishment should happen during the game and not some other games months down the line when a player's points total goes over the limit.

Punishments will happen when certain points totals are reached and will be loss of a substitute. If all substitutes have been used up then the last player to come on as a substitute should come off again. That would work for me.

[Hibby D]

She'll fit in well with some of the players.

:greengrin


:top marks:greengrin

[James70]

Hope none of our players try to make a Maltese Cross, don't want any more players suspended! :greengrin

[BoltonHibee]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6536322,00.html

I hope this is treated with the contempt that it deserves by the authorities.

I have never heard anything so stupid, and would clearly not give the transparency that Regan is strving for.

If they don't get this wish when they are negotiating next week, do you think they will strike again?

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6536322,00.html

I hope this is treated with the contempt that it deserves by the authorities.

I have never heard anything so stupid, and would clearly not give the transparency that Regan is strving for.

If they don't get this wish when they are negotiating next week, do you think they will strike again?

I actually agree with this idea.

If clubs accuse referees of corruption, they definitely should be punished.

Supporters want to blame someone else for their club's lack of success and if the manager/CEO says that the refs are against them, fans will eagerly believe it. See Celtc/Hearts/Rangers...

If that happens, what chance has the referee got next time he's put in charge of their game?

[BoltonHibee]

I actually agree with this idea.

If clubs accuse referees of corruption, they definitely should be punished.

Supporters want to blame someone else for their club's lack of success and if the manager says that the refs are against them fans will believe it. See Celtc/Hearts/Rangers...

If that happens, what chance has the referee got next time he's put in charge of their game?

You would agree with it Dave.

What if a referee is corrupt?

Unworkable and completely stupid idea. I am sure the transparency that Regan is seeking will negate the need for such a stupid concept being put inplace.

[Hibbyradge]

You would agree with it Dave.



What's that supposed to mean? :confused:

I do agree with it.




What if a referee is corrupt?



If anyone is corrupt, there is an onus of proof on the accuser.

Celtic have had referees followed in the past because they thought they were masons. They were wrong, yet the accusation was there.

It's like accusing someone of sexual assault or another crime without proof. The mud sticks even if they're totally innocent.

If they are corrupt, and it's proven, they should be sacked.

[BEEJ]

I actually agree with this idea.

If clubs accuse referees of corruption, they definitely should be punished.

Supporters want to blame someone else for their club's lack of success and if the manager/CEO says that the refs are against them, fans will eagerly believe it. See Celtc/Hearts/Rangers...

If that happens, what chance has the referee got next time he's put in charge of their game?
It's just another suggestion that, if implemented, would lead to even more controversy.

How would you define 'going too far in your criticism'? And would you trust the SFA to make such judgments evenly across all the SPL clubs? I wouldn't.

Takes us back to square one.

[Hibbyradge]

How would you define 'going too far in your criticism'?

Any suggestion that a referee deliberately decided to disadvantage a team, is too far.

Saying a decision was wrong, isn't.


And would you trust the SFA to make such judgments evenly across all the SPL clubs?



That's a separate issue.

If a course of action is right, then it's right and it should be encouraged.

Not to do so, because we think the current incumbents at the SFA may not apply it correctly would be letting them off the hook and acquiesce with their corruption/incompetence.

Anyway, the SFA probably already have the power to do this.

They already fine clubs for being overly critical of refs and/or bringing the game into disrepute and I'm sure persistent offenders would receive stiffer and stiffer punishments. The ultimate sanction against a club would be a deduction of points.

[BEEJ]

Any suggestion that a referee deliberately decided to disadvantage a team, is too far.

Saying a decision was wrong, isn't.
Sounds straightforward until you introduce the concepts of semantics ("the manner in which the sentiment was expressed made it acceptable") and context ("excusable on this occasion due to the circumstances").

I believe we have to be very careful what we do in the Scottish game from this point on. We can't have the orchestrated haranguing of officialdom that we have witnessed from certain clubs for the last month or so. But neither can we return to a system under which 'the referees' can be seen to do no wrong and are beyond reproach due to the fear of the consequences arising from speaking about awful decisions.

Neither extreme is palatable.

[Hibbyradge]

Sounds straightforward until you introduce the concepts of semantics ("the manner in which the sentiment was expressed made it acceptable") and context ("excusable on this occasion due to the circumstances").

I believe we have to be very careful what we do in the Scottish game from this point on. We can't have the orchestrated haranguing of officialdom that we have witnessed from certain clubs for the last month or so. But neither can we return to a system under which 'the referees' can be seen to do no wrong and are beyond reproach due to the fear of the consequences arising from speaking about awful decisions.

Neither extreme is palatable.

Agreed.

If someone falsely accused me of being corrupt, I would have recourse to the slander/libel courts.

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see a test case from a referee if things continue the way they have been recently.

[Twa Cairpets]

Sounds straightforward until you introduce the concepts of semantics ("the manner in which the sentiment was expressed made it acceptable") and context ("excusable on this occasion due to the circumstances").

I believe we have to be very careful what we do in the Scottish game from this point on. We can't have the orchestrated haranguing of officialdom that we have witnessed from certain clubs for the last month or so. But neither can we return to a system under which 'the referees' can be seen to do no wrong and are beyond reproach due to the fear of the consequences arising from speaking about awful decisions.

Neither extreme is palatable.

Good post.

I've defended the referees action throughout this thread, but it is vital that referees don't seek to elevate their role to the point where they are untouchable - and I don't think, generally, they are. What I've heard from KcKendrick on the TV and radio there is an acceptance that there is a long term goal, and an understanding that things wont change overnight. (I don't know what Dougal is spraffing about, and equally don't know if he has any official status anymore within the referee Association).

What I hope comes out of it is:

1) A mechanism is put in place for clubs to air greivances in a structured and open (but private) environment.
2) Clubs refrain from commenting on the integrity of referees.
3) Players develop a sense of responsibility regarding their actions on the pitch, and if they don't they they get hammered for it.
4) Clubs and referees (at all levels) work together off the park to develop an understanding of the laws of the game and how they are applied in a game.
5) The method of scrutiny of referees performances by the governing body is reviewed and overhauled to ensure that consistently sub-standard performances are actioned appropriately - be it demotion, a few weeks off, whatever.

The main thing required is for all parties involved to have a desire to make things better, which is admittedly difficult in a sport which is hugely short-termist in outlook.

[Dashing Bob S]

Bit of an own goal from those ******ed paranoid tramps on the ref front so far. I've no doubt that a Scottish whistler, in the interests of 'balance' would have given them a last min pen yesterday, or at least manufacture an innocuous Caley sending off.

That's problem with bringing in overseas refs from places like Luxembourg. Way to have egg on your face, Lenny boy!

Incidentally, did this clown feel moved to pass any comment on the Luxemborg ref?

[Gettin' Auld]

Bit of an own goal from those ******ed paranoid tramps on the ref front so far. I've no doubt that a Scottish whistler, in the interests of 'balance' would have given them a last min pen yesterday, or at least manufacture an innocuous Caley sending off.

That's problem with bringing in overseas refs from places like Luxembourg. Way to have egg on your face, Lenny boy!

Incidentally, did this clown feel moved to pass any comment on the Luxemborg ref?
He said thank you.
http://sport.scotsman.com/celticfc/Neil-Lennon-says-thank-you.6641837.jp

[johnrebus]

When the dust has settled over the referees strike and the SFA come up with new rules regarding players/managers/officials behaviour, what, if anything are they going to do about the people who most helped to start the whole thing in the first place?

IMHO the referees would name Hearts amongst all of this, but I have a feeling they will get off scot free. Celtic on the other hand........,

If the SFA truly mean business, they will have to disregard all the Dallas/McDonald stuff and hammer Celtic into the ground with all or some of the following

1. Long, long touchline ban (and fine)for Lennon
2. Points deduction for the club
3. Massive fine for Dr Reid.

The trouble is that I don't think that Celtic will accept any draconian measure against them. The problem for them of course is that they have nowhere else to go, because nobody wants them - or their cousins in Govan.

My feeling is that this is only the start of a what will become a very nasty and damaging time for Scottish Football and the country as a whole.

:timebomb:

[Toaods]

Interesting that Andy Walker features on the Sky Sports News Bulletins this afternoon asking for the Referees to come forward and name the club they have a problem with.

[blackpoolhibs]

Interesting that Andy Walker features on the Sky Sports News Bulletins this afternoon asking for the Referees to come forward and name the club they have a problem with.

For the first time i think ever, i agree with him. We and the rest are in danger of being dragged into this squabble, when we all know who's really to blame. Let them name the clubs that they think are to blame, and stop diluting the problem by blaming all of us. :bitchy:

[ronaldo7]

We were supposed to have points deduction for sectarian singing a couple of seasons back. They even published a list of songs which were deemed offensive. What's happened since then....Sweet F A

Until they can ensure the rules they put in place a couple of seasons ago are recognised, and imposed, then it's all a waste of paper.

[Twa Cairpets]

Interesting that Andy Walker features on the Sky Sports News Bulletins this afternoon asking for the Referees to come forward and name the club they have a problem with.

Andy Walker is an erse.

Whilst everyone with the remotest understanding of the situation knows that it is (a) Celtc and (b) Hearts that are the problem, it shoudl be equally clear why the referees cant come out publicly and say so.

The minute they do, these vile paranoid fuds claim theyve been correct all along. They take wilful misinterpretation toa fine art already, just imagine if they hear a ref say on Sky "we have a particular issue with the Celtc Football Club". Anti-catholic conspiracy!

The route for action must be through the SFA/SPL, although you wouldnt hold your breath.

[Part/Time Supporter]

We were supposed to have points deduction for sectarian singing a couple of seasons back. They even published a list of songs which were deemed offensive. What's happened since then....Sweet F A

Until they can ensure the rules they put in place a couple of seasons ago are recognised, and imposed, then it's all a waste of paper.

The problem with that kind of rule (or indeed docking points for managers saying the ref was bent) is that it will collapse in a morass of whataboutery. Celtc fans rushing to grass up old quotes from Walter / footage of the Huns singing dodgy songs, while Huns pour over every Lennon interview for any undue criticisms / photos of dodgy political banners.

Due to this the OF would never get punished, but any time a diddy team manager said boo to the SFA goose there would be three points docked quicker than the 90 minutes it takes to win them.

[johnrebus]

It's ironic that the last person who could have taken a stand on the whole conspiracy stuff was none other than Harry Potter.

But he bottled it and paid the fine.


:rolleyes:

[Toaods]

The minute they do, these vile paranoid fuds claim theyve been correct all along. They take wilful misinterpretation toa fine art already, just imagine if they hear a ref say on Sky "we have a particular issue with the Celtc Football Club". Anti-catholic conspiracy!

No danger Celtic would use that line and Walker didn't suggest they simply report it to SKY, the point is they haven't cited any club.

[Toaods]

It's ironic that the last person who could have taken a stand on the whole conspiracy stuff was none other than Harry Potter.

But he bottled it and paid the fine.


:rolleyes:


no, he didn't....:wink:

[Twa Cairpets]

No danger Celtic would use that line and Walker didn't suggest they simply report it to SKY, the point is they haven't cited any club.

Sky, BBC, Papers, anywhere public would have the same effect.

Of course Celtic would, and the press, and their fans. And Andy Walker

[Toaods]

...just had a thought, now that Dougie MacDonald's quit, it would be great if the other clowns followed him and the SPL can bring in non-Scotiish replacements legitimitely until the end of the season. Bet it would work a treat and be a slap in the face for the egotistical striking maniacs.


...whatever happened to our great irritant, Charlie Richmond? The old quietly sneaking off the back pages into lower league guff without public condemnation of his ability to completely F.Up every game he handled.

[Toaods]

Sky, BBC, Papers, anywhere public would have the same effect.

Of course Celtic would, and the press, and their fans. And Andy Walker

no, your miles off the pace if you believe the club would officially use the religous aspect, that would alienate themselves and simply won't happen.


It doesn't mean to say they won't pull the strings of their media puppets to ensure that's portrayed as the 'real' reason though.

[Twa Cairpets]

no, your miles off the pace if you believe the club would officially use the religous aspect, that would alienate themselves and simply won't happen.

It doesn't mean to say they won't pull the strings of their media puppets to ensure that's portrayed as the 'real' reason though.

Sorry,wasn't clear enough in my first reply - thats what I meant. If not anti Catholic from the club then certainly anti Celtc. The minute they are named by the refs, the minute it becomes persecution (in Celtcs eyes).

[Barney McGrew]

Whilst everyone with the remotest understanding of the situation knows that it is (a) Celtc and (b) Hearts that are the problem, it shoudl be equally clear why the referees cant come out publicly and say so

You can add Dundee United to those two. My understanding is that they're the three specific clubs the referees have real concerns over.

[PaulSmith]

...just had a thought, now that Dougie MacDonald's quit, it would be great if the other clowns followed him and the SPL can bring in non-Scotiish replacements legitimitely until the end of the season. Bet it would work a treat and be a slap in the face for the egotistical striking maniacs.


...whatever happened to our great irritant, Charlie Richmond? The old quietly sneaking off the back pages into lower league guff without public condemnation of his ability to completely F.Up every game he handled.

Richmond and Somers, I read that there is no accountability in refereeing but there you have two.
Why should there be a public condemnation of them anyways?

You might as well pack in youth, amateur and junior clubs now as if there is no carrot of reaching the top then you'll see a vast of good up and coming refs walk away

[Twa Cairpets]

Richmond and Somers, I read that there is no accountability in refereeing but there you have two.
Why should there be a public condemnation of them anyways?

You might as well pack in youth, amateur and junior clubs now as if there is no carrot of reaching the top then you'll see a vast of good up and coming refs walk away

Good point re Richmond - he wasnt particularly good and he is much less in evidence now, removing the issue. I hadnt thought about Somers, but right enough. Why should they be hounded out with cries of "burn the witch"? Who should lead the public condemnation of them. The SFA? The SPL?

How can public berating of an individual be deemed a good or constructive thing? What point would it serve? What beneft would it bring.

The second point is very valid also. The faces I see, certainly around West Lothian reffing youth football tend very much to be the same faces that were there ten years ago, guys like me who are quite happy to stick to the youth and amateurs. The number of young guys actively doing games is very low, even at 7-a-side. Very depressing, although being ever the optimist, I'd still encourage anyone to have a go - it is, for the most part, great fun and helps you look at the game in a different way.

[Dashing Bob S]

Sorry,wasn't clear enough in my first reply - thats what I meant. If not anti Catholic from the club then certainly anti Celtc. The minute they are named by the refs, the minute it becomes persecution (in Celtcs eyes).

If people accept the role of the OF is to maintain the sectarian division in football and Scottish society in general, then it's not possible for Celtic to behave in any other way towards refs or the SFA or the football 'establishment' (which they aren't a part of, perish the thought).

Sadly, as long as so many dopes buy into this OF nonsense, nothing will change and this theatrical posturing and craven cowardice will continue. It Celtic are ignored, they are vindicated, the same if they are punished. I don't think Scottish Football is viable or sustainable in it's current form, and sadly, it's about what we deserve by subscribing in such numbers to this foul scam.

[Part/Time Supporter]

...just had a thought, now that Dougie MacDonald's quit, it would be great if the other clowns followed him and the SPL can bring in non-Scotiish replacements legitimitely until the end of the season. Bet it would work a treat and be a slap in the face for the egotistical striking maniacs.


...whatever happened to our great irritant, Charlie Richmond? The old quietly sneaking off the back pages into lower league guff without public condemnation of his ability to completely F.Up every game he handled.

Hasn't refereed a game since Dundee Utd v Hibs on the last day of last season according to soccerbase (http://www.soccerbase.com/refs2.sd).

He's still on the SFA list (http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football_referees.cfm?page=720&startrow=7&currentPage=2). I guess he must either be injured or "retired" on the quiet. Calum Murray had about a year out due to injury a couple of years back.

[marinello59]

If people accept the role of the OF is to maintain the sectarian division in football and Scottish society in general, then it's not possible for Celtic to behave in any other way towards refs or the SFA or the football 'establishment' (which they aren't a part of, perish the thought).

Sadly, as long as so many dopes buy into this OF nonsense, nothing will change and this theatrical posturing and craven cowardice will continue. It Celtic are ignored, they are vindicated, the same if they are punished. I don't think Scottish Football is viable or sustainable in it's current form, and sadly, it's about what we deserve by subscribing in such numbers to this foul scam.
:agree:

[JimBHibees]

Who actually is the spokesman for the Scottish referees ? All we appear to have is Clark and Dougal ex refs who apparently arent part of the Association withdrawing their labour however no doubt are briefed by self same body. The lack of candour and communication from both the refs and SFA has been appalling. A very good article outlining this was by Fraser Wishart the PFA guy.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/more-scottish-football/talking-to-a-brick-wall-farce-surrounding-our-game-epitomises-problems-we-face-in-scotland-says-fraser-wishart-1.1070848

[Toaods]

maybe Yogi can get a job as a ref....claimed a problem is that the current incumbents 'don't know the game, etc' and bet there wouldn't be many chase him over the park to hassle him...:greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

If people accept the role of the OF is to maintain the sectarian division in football and Scottish society in general, then it's not possible for Celtic to behave in any other way towards refs or the SFA or the football 'establishment' (which they aren't a part of, perish the thought).

Sadly, as long as so many dopes buy into this OF nonsense, nothing will change and this theatrical posturing and craven cowardice will continue. It Celtic are ignored, they are vindicated, the same if they are punished. I don't think Scottish Football is viable or sustainable in it's current form, and sadly, it's about what we deserve by subscribing in such numbers to this foul scam.

Gonnae just pass the pills, rope and loaded pistol now Bob.

Although you may be right, something will change. Football itself won't die, because it is fundamentally a superb sport, it is the most preffered sporting pastime in the country, and there is a massive base of people willing to pay, even for a substandard product.

[Kaiser1962]

Gonnae just pass the pills, rope and loaded pistol now Bob.

Although you may be right, something will change. Football itself won't die, because it is fundamentally a superb sport, it is the most preffered sporting pastime in the country, and there is a massive base of people willing to pay, even for a substandard product.

The trouble in Scotland is that sectarianism is not only a culture but it is also a business in the West which houses about 75% of the country's population. There is, according to them, no middle ground and the OF have grown wealthy out of farming the hatred. Celtic will be very clever and use their fans to voice their delusions and the club will be slow to distance itself from the nut jobs as it has been in the past. The ref's naming names, while Celtic are playing political games with ambiguous comments, will do no good whatsoever and only add fuel to the fire.