Referees on strike

[marinello59]

I find it amazing that people can defend the referee's over this matter.. For years now we have had to put up with up inept performances , bottling decision's and sometimes even cheating..

Don't people think refs should be made accountable for there poor performances ?? Refs are on strike not because they are being questioned over there integrity and apparent threats to themselves and there families but nothing more than for years now they have got away with murder and are basically bulletproof...

If a ref does make a bad call that effects a game the worst that can happen to them is that they get there knuckles rapped , sent to the lower leagues for a few weeks and then brought back to the SPL with the incident swept under the carpet...

Is that you Dr Reid?

[ancienthibby]

I find it amazing that people can defend the referee's over this matter.. For years now we have had to put up with up inept performances , bottling decision's and sometimes even cheating..

Don't people think refs should be made accountable for there poor performances ?? Refs are on strike not because they are being questioned over there integrity and apparent threats to themselves and there families but nothing more than for years now they have got away with murder and are basically bulletproof...

If a ref does make a bad call that effects a game the worst that can happen to them is that they get there knuckles rapped , sent to the lower leagues for a few weeks and then brought back to the SPL with the incident swept under the carpet...

Not so!!

They get threatening phone calls about themselves and their families!!

How would you cope with that if your customers/suppliers took that attitude with your employment??

That said, the real issue remains the cheating, posturing, prima donna players!!

[PaulSmith]

I find it amazing that people can defend the referee's over this matter.. For years now we have had to put up with up inept performances , bottling decision's and sometimes even cheating..

Don't people think refs should be made accountable for there poor performances ?? Refs are on strike not because they are being questioned over there integrity and apparent threats to themselves and there families but nothing more than for years now they have got away with murder and are basically bulletproof...

If a ref does make a bad call that effects a game the worst that can happen to them is that they get there knuckles rapped , sent to the lower leagues for a few weeks and then brought back to the SPL with the incident swept under the carpet...

I despair, I absolutely love to read that we are the only nation in Europe where we somehow have crap referee's but for a small nation we have several FIFA listed officials...maybe their in on the conspiracy as well?
Can you or anyone else honesty compare the standard here and that in other European countries?

[NOLA]

Refs from Portugal, Poland, Malta and Luxembourg... Mmm

"Who's the tourist in the black":whistle:

[AndyB_70]

I find it amazing that people can defend the referee's over this matter.. For years now we have had to put up with up inept performances , bottling decision's and sometimes even cheating..

Don't people think refs should be made accountable for there poor performances ?? Refs are on strike not because they are being questioned over there integrity and apparent threats to themselves and there families but nothing more than for years now they have got away with murder and are basically bulletproof...

If a ref does make a bad call that effects a game the worst that can happen to them is that they get there knuckles rapped , sent to the lower leagues for a few weeks and then brought back to the SPL with the incident swept under the carpet...

Kenny Clark, speaking on Newsnight a few nights ago, a few days after a game was subjected to a torrent of abuse while with his 8 year old son on the Arran ferry from a fan who didn't like a decision he gave. Is this right?
What the worst that can happen to a player who makes a mistake that costs his team the game? He gets dropped. Wow. Still gets his over inflated salary and still only has to train for a few hours a day. Poor wee lambs.
Do you think we have an endless supply of refs? Without them we have no football.
If its easy why don't you become a ref?

[delbert]

Sorry, there is a lot of nonsense being talked here, but any member of a trade union who has a legitimate grievance and who follows the correct procedures within the law can withdraw their labour, what difference does it make that they wear shorts and carry a whistle, rather than carry a timecard and wear a pair of dungarees.

If the referees feel that their issues and not being addressed properly, then they are entitled to go through with their strike, and it is touch luck who is inconvenienced, has anyone here heard of French Air Traffic Controllers??

This has been going on for decades, I was involved as an official at a Scottish Junior Cup Tie in Ayrshire and was threatened by a knuckle dragger carrying a knife. We have reached a point where these idiots are now being actively encouraged by some of the lunatics who are the top of the game in some clubs, and believe that it is actually right and proper to abuse these guys for 90 mins on a Saturday which we can put up with ( but which is down to ignorance in the main anyway and doesnt make it right), but its now being carried on in the street, in the superrkaet, with their families) How can anybody defend this, and say that referees are wrong to stand against this? Its tough luck that some fans and some clubs are being inconvenienced, but as yet I havent seen any of these clubs coming out and actively condemning the people we know are responsible for the final straw that broke the camels back. Perhaps if they had the balls to do this actually lay the blame where it belongs, then referees might have some sympathy for them. I for one, as a referee, am 100% behing the striking refs, and would hope that this situation happens again, they will have no hesitation in doing this again ( but without giving them quite so much notice)

[ScottB]

Refs from Portugal, Poland, Malta and Luxembourg... Mmm

Can't wait to hear how all these countries have always hated Celtic.

I heard it was gonna be Polish and Israeli refs, was looking forward to Celtic fans comparing their suffering with that of the Poles and Jews...

[PaulSmith]

Can't wait to hear how all these countries have always hated Celtic.

I heard it was gonna be Polish and Israeli refs, was looking forward to Celtic fans comparing their suffering with that of the Poles and Jews...

The Israeli's are having 2nd thoughts according to the guy who just appeared on Sportsound from their own FA

[Hamish]

Agree just been listening to radio about Cowdenbeath v Dunfermline having to be postponed which given it is probably their biggest game of the season and will directly affect a small club who no doubt needs every penny. Personally think the refs are as much to blame their issues should have been raised and discussed however no way IMO should they be striking.

Yeah Cowden have been upgrading their floodlights over the past few weeks and the board have been trying extremely hard to attract people to Central Park (for my money what they have done in the past few seasons is nothing short of miraculous considering their home gate is around 3/400). This Sat. was the big one against Dunfermline, the money they will lose through cancelled corporate etc will hit them very hard.

[BoltonHibee]

Can anyone tell me,

1. Did Celtic or any other SPL side come out in sympathy or support of the referees?

2. Did the SFA? (I know that they said that they did not condone the strike action)

3. Did the SPL? ( If they did, what does that actually mean, do they speak for the SPL clubs)

Cheers

[Kaiser1962]

I see.. I thought you were at the game.

I was

[The_Todd]

Can anyone tell me,

1. Did Celtic or any other SPL side come out in sympathy or support of the referees?

2. Did the SFA? (I know that they said that they did not condone the strike action)

3. Did the SPL? ( If they did, what does that actually mean, do they speak for the SPL clubs)

Cheers

1: Yes. Hibs did. Well, CC did.
2: Not really
3: No.

[lyonhibs]

I find it amazing that people can defend the referee's over this matter.. For years now we have had to put up with up inept performances , bottling decision's and sometimes even cheating..

Don't people think refs should be made accountable for there poor performances ?? Refs are on strike not because they are being questioned over there integrity and apparent threats to themselves and there families but nothing more than for years now they have got away with murder and are basically bulletproof...

If a ref does make a bad call that effects a game the worst that can happen to them is that they get there knuckles rapped , sent to the lower leagues for a few weeks and then brought back to the SPL with the incident swept under the carpet...

Oh go on - actual proof?? When has this cheating occured??

And do you think they are just making up the threats against them and their families for ****s and giggles?? :confused:

[stantonhibby]

I like to think I am at least a bit clever :wink:

But the red card DID happen, unlike your claim which said:but what we do know is that never in the history of the game has an OF player been given a straight red for swearing at the ref . Incidentally, red cards in the senior game for this infringement are very unusual - happens all the time in the amateurs, but hardly ever in the SPL or SFL.



Maybe the game did, but what you said was: First minute bobo baldy terrible tackle from behind on hibs player only given a yellow, he then goes onto commit a further 26 fouls, about 6 were of similar type.

There may well have been 26 fouls in the game. Not 26 by Balde. If this was the case it would have been in the report on the game. Oddly, none of the reports mention this. Its a conspiracy I tell ya!.


Touche :greengrin



Depressing.



Well, you have, because the refs around 20+ years ago are different to those we have now, as are the circumstances in which they operate.



Trust me, you don't go into refereeing expecting people to like you, respect you, or be your best buddy. You do expect not to be called a cheat.


re the Balde issue - I do recall being at that game and he did go right through the back of someone early on and got a yellow.
I don't think he committeed another 20 odd fouls but i do remember it getting so ridiculous that a few of us in the West actually started keeping count of how many fouls he had committed and it was certainly double figures .

[BoltonHibee]

1: Yes. Hibs did. Well, CC did.
2: Not really
3: No.

So 1 club (Hibs), come out in support and that's it??

Bloody hell, what does that say about Scottish referee's?

[Danderhall Hibs]

So 1 club (Hibs), come out in support and that's it??

Bloody hell, what does that say about Scottish referee's?

Our assistant manager's got a 15 game ban at the moment so maybe we're hoping to get it reduced?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Sorry, there is a lot of nonsense being talked here, but any member of a trade union who has a legitimate grievance and who follows the correct procedures within the law can withdraw their labour, what difference does it make that they wear shorts and carry a whistle, rather than carry a timecard and wear a pair of dungarees.

Did they follow the correct procedure?

[basehibby]

You said no OF player had ever been sent off for Foul and Abusive Language. I provided a link showing Neil Lennon, as a player, being dismissed for just that reason. Therefore that point is bollox.

You claimed that a game with Balde in it at ER, he committed 27 fouls - one ever 3 1/2 minutes - and you have produced nothing to back that up, because its bollox - you've made it up or believed unquestioningly what someone has told you.

You claimed refs bottle sending off Balde at ER because he played for Celtic. I gave you a link to a game where he was dismissed. Therefore that point is bollox.

I've been to probably 80% or thereabouts of Hibs v OF games, at ER at any rate, since the mid eighties, (so thats another piece of bollox).

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing - far from it. This weekends events, and the fallout from it are potentially pivotal to the future of senior football in Scotland - debate is critical, and people should debate their opinions openly and strongly.

I find it incredibly infuriating that people form their views on prejudice, lack of genuine evidence and an immutable, stubborn refusal to debate points made to the contrary because it doesnt fit their pre-formed view. Myopia in the extreme, and its absolutely why we've got into this position in the first place.

To be fair I've got to back Northern Hibee up over this one - I remember the game - can only have been about four or five years ago - and regardless of the number of fouls comitted, it was simply astounding how Balde managed to remain on the pitch (even some embarassed looking Celtic fans agreed with this after the game). Only two possible conclusions IMO: either the ref repeatedly bottled it or he'd been "nobbled". Either way it was very far from satisfactory - I'm sure Neil Lennon was playing that day as well - Presumably he remembers it as an example of a model refereeing display.

[BoltonHibee]

Our assistant manager's got a 15 game ban at the moment so maybe we're hoping to get it reduced?

:greengrin

Seriously, if that is all the support the referee's are getting from the SFA, SPL and the SPL clubs......surely their position is untenable?:confused:

[Hibs07p]

Cheating players make the referees job more difficult than it should be.
Complaining managers make the referees job more difficult than it should be.
TV cameras and the media make the referees job more difficult than it should be.
Referees are human, make mistakes, and are now at the stage where they have to tell lies to try and avoid the glare of the media and the supervisor sitting in the stand. This has come about because an under pressure official made a wrong call refereeing a game involving one of the OF, and tried to get out of it without any repercussions to himself. If that incident happened in any game other than one involving the OF, it generally would have been accepted as a "wrong call being corrected". The OF hierarchy, players and their fans are the cancer destroying our game.
OFGTF

[Hibs07p]

So 1 club (Hibs), come out in support and that's it??

Bloody hell, what does that say about Scottish referee's?

I think the question should really be, what does that say about Scottish football clubs? :agree:

[BoltonHibee]

Cheating players make the referees job more difficult than it should be.
Complaining managers make the referees job more difficult than it should be.
TV cameras and the media make the referees job more difficult than it should be.
Referees are human, make mistakes, and are now at the stage where they have to tell lies to try and avoid the glare of the media and the supervisor sitting in the stand. This has come about because an under pressure official made a wrong call refereeing a game involving one of the OF, and tried to get out of it without any repercussions to himself. If that incident happened in any game other than one involving the OF, it generally would have been accepted as a "wrong call being corrected". The OF hierarchy, players and their fans are the cancer destroying our game.
OFGTF

What I cant understand though, is why there hasn't been more support for the referee's?

If what has been mentioned further up this thread, 1 club has voiced it's support (or at least the manager).

Why is there not more support?

[BoltonHibee]

I think the question should really be, what does that say about Scottish football clubs? :agree:



Or maybe they all, or most of them feel the same?

What about the SFA and the SPL too?

[PaulSmith]

What I cant understand though, is why there hasn't been more support for the referee's?

If what has been mentioned further up this thread, 1 club has voiced it's support (or at least the manager).

Why is there not more support?

You're in the minority, currently 85% of your own supporters back the referees.

As Bad Martini would say.End off.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You're in the minority, currently 85% of your own supporters back the referees.

As Bad Martini would say.End off.

My guess is that a lot of the 85% who voted don't know why they're striking but think it's a dig at Celtic and maybe Hearts they're having so have said they agree with the refs.

[BoltonHibee]

You're in the minority, currently 85% of your own supporters back the referees.

As Bad Martini would say.End off.

I think you misunderstand what I am saying.

I am asking why there seems to be such a lack of support for the referee's from The SFA, The SPL and the clubs in Scotland, not from fans on this site or any other site.

[PaulSmith]

I think you misunderstand what I am saying.

I am asking why there seems to be such a lack of support for the referee's from The SFA, The SPL and the clubs in Scotland, not from fans on this site or any other site.

Money.

[Hibs07p]

What I cant understand though, is why there hasn't been more support for the referee's?

If what has been mentioned further up this thread, 1 club has voiced it's support (or at least the manager).

Why is there not more support?

Referees are always the bad guys aren't they? I think clubs in general, but the OF specifically always try to detract from their failings by blaming other factors, like the easy target that is the referee. Never their tactics that are used, poor team selections, not using substitutes at the right time, etc. I am not any lover of referees, but I believe in their right to withdraw their labour, if, they can referee without fear of every mistake being scrutinised by the media, the OF, and their officials of conducting a witch hunt against them. If they're incompetent, put machinery in place to retrain them or get rid, but don't allow "bullying in the workplace" just because they can!

[BoltonHibee]

My guess is that a lot of the 85% who voted don't know why they're striking but think it's a dig at Celtic and maybe Hearts they're having so have said they agree with the refs.

That's my take on the particular poll on this thread too.

[BoltonHibee]

Money.

I don't follow:confused:

[Hibs07p]

My guess is that a lot of the 85% who voted don't know why they're striking but think it's a dig at Celtic and maybe Hearts they're having so have said they agree with the refs.

So, you think 85% of our supporters are too stupid to understand why the referees are striking? Maybe you should put a poll up asking if they understand what it is all about?

[Barney McGrew]

My guess is that a lot of the 85% who voted don't know why they're striking but think it's a dig at Celtic and maybe Hearts they're having so have said they agree with the refs.

That's a sweeping generalisation to make about your fellow supporters.

Maybe you should give them a bit more credit?

[Danderhall Hibs]

So, you think 85% of our supporters are too stupid to understand why the referees are striking? Maybe you should put a poll up asking if they understand what it is all about?

Firstly it's not 85% of our supporters - it's 200-odd folk on a messgeboard. and secondly I've asked a few times why they're striking on this very thread but noone's been able to say why. So no I don't think they're (all) stupid but I do think they think backing the refs gets one over on Celtic and maybe Hearts.

[Twa Cairpets]

My guess is that a lot of the 85% who voted don't know why they're striking but think it's a dig at Celtic and maybe Hearts they're having so have said they agree with the refs.

Thats a tad demeaning isn't it? "Poor little poppets dont really know what theyre voting for so its not representative"


Seriously, if that is all the support the referee's are getting from the SFA, SPL and the SPL clubs......surely their position is untenable?

To be honest, I reckon the best stance is one of silence. Whilst the situation was trying to get sorted, to unliaterally come out and voice an opinion either pro or con could easily have jeapordised negotiations depending on how the media reported it.

I would also think that the SPL would have told the clubs to adopt a "no comment" policy from official sources, which would make sense and does not indicate lack of support or otherwise.

[Danderhall Hibs]

That's a sweeping generalisation to make about your fellow supporters.

Maybe you should give them a bit more credit, or does that not suit your agenda?

It's my guess not a generalisation. If anyone does actually know why they're on strike I'd be interested to read the reasons.

:tee hee: My agenda against referees?

[Hibs07p]

Firstly it's not 85% of our supporters - it's 200-odd folk on a messgeboard. and secondly I've asked a few times why they're striking on this very thread but noone's been able to say why. So no I don't think they're (all) stupid but I do think they think backing the refs gets one over on Celtic and maybe Hearts.

OK it's 85% of the people polled, which is a fair reflection of the feeling of the Hibs support.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Thats a tad demeaning isn't it? "Poor little poppets dont really know what theyre voting for so its not representative"



I suppose if it suited your agenda you could see it as demeaning. Either way I don't think 200-odd folk is representative of our support.

[BoltonHibee]

Thats a tad demeaning isn't it? "Poor little poppets dont really know what theyre voting for so its not representative"



To be honest, I reckon the best stance is one of silence. Whilst the situation was trying to get sorted, to unliaterally come out and voice an opinion either pro or con could easily have jeapordised negotiations depending on how the media reported it.

I would also think that the SPL would have told the clubs to adopt a "no comment" policy from official sources, which would make sense and does not indicate lack of support or otherwise.

This could be true and would make a lot of sense.

Why did Hibs ( CC) give the ref's some support, or is that not true?

[iwasthere1972]

Are there any arrangements in place for a collection at Easter Road and if so how big a donation should I make to the poor refs?

[BEEJ]

As ever this debate is becoming increasingly polarised (a two-option poll will normally end up that way, I guess). :greengrin

I do support the referees in the context of their stance this week and think the action they are taking is valid in the light of the events of the last month or so.

That is not to say, however, that I have ready explanations for some of the more ridiculous and baffling refereeing decisions I have witnessed against my team over the years; decisions which I inevitably ask myself -"Would that decision have ever been given against a Rangers player at Ibrox or a Celtic player at Parkhead?".

To which the answer is invariably "No!"

The culture of silence and lack of explanation that has followed poor refereeing displays does nothing to salve the sense of deep injustice that can result from witnessing such apparently poor errors of judgment. And the fact that Grade 1 referees seem to have no obvious system whereby they are penalised for poor performances offers no solace either.

The match that I will never forget is the Hibs vs Falkirk encounter in September 2006 - aka The Allan Freeland show. I remember writing to Donald McVicar, Head of referee Development at the time, and receiving the most pompous, trite letter in response.

The system does have to change - starting with the blazer brigade at the SFA.

[Hibs07p]

It's my guess not a generalisation. If anyone does actually know why they're on strike I'd be interested to read the reasons.

:tee hee: My agenda against referees?

Persistent negative comments from clubs and the media, together with officials’ fears over their personal safety away from the pitch, has led to their decision to strike.

[Barney McGrew]

It's my guess not a generalisation. If anyone does actually know why they're on strike I'd be interested to read the reasons?

It's been pretty widely reported in the written press, radio and TV what their reasons for going on strike are.

You must have been doing pretty well this week if you've managed to miss the reports.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Persistent negative comments from clubs and the media, together with officials’ fears over their personal safety away from the pitch, has led to their decision to strike.

And what do they think they gain by striking? By that I mean what are their "demands"?

Is it as simple as "stop moaning at us and give us some respect"?

[Danderhall Hibs]

It's been pretty widely reported in the written press, radio and TV what their reasons for going on strike are.

You must have been doing pretty well this week if you've managed to miss the reports.

I've not seen or read any reports on TV or in the papers this week. Only what I've read on here - honest.

[Hibs07p]

As ever this debate is becoming increasingly polarised (a two-option poll will normally end up that way, I guess). :greengrin

I do support the referees in the context of their stance this week and think the action they are taking is valid in the light of the events of the last month or so.

That is not to say, however, that I have ready explanations for some of the more ridiculous and baffling refereeing decisions I have witnessed against my team over the years; decisions which I inevitably ask myself -"Would that decision have ever been given against a Rangers player at Ibrox or a Celtic player at Parkhead?".

To which the answer is invariably "No!"

The culture of silence and lack of explanation that has followed poor refereeing displays does nothing to salve the sense of deep injustice that can result from witnessing such apparently poor errors of judgment. And the fact that Grade 1 referees seem to have no obvious system whereby they are penalised for poor performances offers no solace either.

The match that I will never forget is the Hibs vs Falkirk encounter in September 2006 - aka The Allan Freeland show. I remember writing to Donald McVicar, Head of referee Development at the time, and receiving the most pompous, trite letter in response.

The system does have to change - starting with the blazer brigade at the SFA.

:agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I've not seen or read any reports on TV or in the papers this week. Only what I've read on here - honest.

I should add that I heard a clip of an interview with Gordon Smith on TalkSport saying similar to what I'm saying and an interview on the same channel with an English guy that was involved in the discussions - he didn't say what the refs were hoping to gain either though.

[Hibs07p]

And what do they think they gain by striking? By that I mean what are their "demands"?

Is it as simple as "stop moaning at us and give us some respect"?

The full article below.

“However, it was believed to be necessary in the current climate and will hopefully put an end to the more extreme attacks on referees.”

Not too much to ask for.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/aberdeen/211019-scottish-referees-chief-defends-strike-action/

[Danderhall Hibs]

The full article below.

“However, it was believed to be necessary in the current climate and will hopefully put an end to the more extreme attacks on referees.”

Not too much to ask for.

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/aberdeen/211019-scottish-referees-chief-defends-strike-action/

Cheers.

Do they really think that having the weekend off will get everyone onside next time they get a big decision wrong?!

[Barney McGrew]

Only what I've read on here - honest.

Post 1 of this thread would have given you the reason. You must have missed that.

[BoltonHibee]

Cheers.

Do they really think that having the weekend off will get everyone onside next time they get a big decision wrong?!

I know, pathetic really isn't it.

If I was the SPL, I would be having a serious word with the contract supplier about this situation and asking for guarantees that I wasn't put in this position again. Otherwise I would be looking at a different supplier.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Post 1 of this thread would have given you the reason. You must have missed that.

I've just read that and it says they're not happy with the flak they've been getting. No mention of what they hope to gain by not working at the weekend though.:confused:

[Hibs07p]

Cheers.

Do they really think that having the weekend off will get everyone onside next time they get a big decision wrong?!

Not so much getting everyone onside, but being able to attend your place of employment in a relaxed manner as possible, focused on the game ahead, and not being stressed about making wrong decisions, that could get you "crucified" in the media, fed by officials of clubs, trying to suit their own agenda. They will always get decisions wrong at times, but they shouldn't be scared to get them wrong, if they believe they are right. If they are simply incompetent, they should be retrained or emptied.

[PaulSmith]

I know, pathetic really isn't it.

If I was the SPL, I would be having a serious word with the contract supplier about this situation and asking for guarantees that I wasn't put in this position again. Otherwise I would be looking at a different supplier.

And would this be a contract with another FA?
How would that effect the already ludicrous situation that 80% of new refs in Scotland jack it after less than 6 months due to the crap that they get, young guys stick at it with the carrot that they can referee at the very top level. It's a hard and difficult road with the only support from other referee's I would imagine.
Take away that carrot and you turn off the tap to recruiting new referee's, how long would it take for there to be not enough refs for kids fitba, amateur games and the lower leagues.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Not so much getting everyone onside, but being able to attend your place of employment in a relaxed manner as possible, focused on the game ahead, and not being stressed about making wrong decisions, that could get you "crucified" in the media, fed by officials of clubs, trying to suit their own agenda. They will always get decisions wrong at times, but they shouldn't be scared to get them wrong, if they believe they are right. If they are simply incompetent, they should be retrained or emptied.

I've got no problem with that at all and agree that's how it should be. Just can't see how doing what they're doing will help them get that. It almost seems as if they're saying look at us we're bigger than the game.

[Twa Cairpets]

I've just read that and it says they're not happy with the flak they've been getting. No mention of what they hope to gain by not working at the weekend though.:confused:

From the Scotsman (http://sport.scotsman.com/refereeing-controversies/In-full-The-statement-from.6639697.jp)


In full: The statement from Scotland's leading refereesPremium 25 November 2010
Scotland's category one referees today reaffirmed their intention to withdraw their labour this weekend. Here is the statement they released today:
"As indicated earlier this week, at Sunday's scheduled SFA monthly meeting of category one officials it was decided unanimously to withdraw availability for appointment this weekend November 27-28.

"The meeting concluded that the incessant and adv
ADVERTISEMENTerse nature of recent comments on referees had placed intolerable pressures on personal and professional lives and that statements questioning honesty and integrity aimed across refereeing in general had led to an unprecedented level of abuse and genuine concerns for safety and for the ability to carry out normal family and business commitments.

"Last night, all category one referees ratified their original decision.

"It was also stated at the time that the group appreciated the full impact this decision will have on fans this weekend and for that reason it was not taken lightly.

"However, it was believed to be necessary in the current climate and that it will hopefully put an end to the more extreme attacks on referees.

"It was not a 'bargaining chip' aimed at soliciting 'quick fixes or deals'.

"It was instead a genuine call for a moment of reflection by all who love the game in Scotland and a desire to see a real and fundamental reappraisal of football's and society's relationship with its referees.

"The group felt this was needed for the good of the game overall and made it clear to all on Monday that this was not an industrial relations dispute that could be speedily negotiated away to avert 'action'.

"The category one officials have welcomed the level of support received from fellow officials both at home and internationally, as well as that from others within the game and wider Scottish life.

"Discussions took place this week with the SFA and leagues and constructive progress was made on mainly long-term objectives which, if achievable, will begin a proper process to underpin the integrity and standing of referees in this country.

"After this weekend, the referees will return to the field and will continue dialogue with the governing body to develop well-thought through and meaningful measures in an environment of mutual respect."

[BoltonHibee]

And would this be a contract with another FA?
How would that effect the already ludicrous situation that 80% of new refs in Scotland jack it after less than 6 months due to the crap that they get, young guys stick at it with the carrot that they can referee at the very top level. It's a hard and difficult road with the only support from other referee's I would imagine.
Take away that carrot and you turn off the tap to recruiting new referee's, how long would it take for there to be not enough refs for kids fitba, amateur games and the lower leagues.

I guess it would have to be?

Your absolutely spot on, there would be no pot of referees at any level in Scotland if that were to happen.

So the SFA are duty bound to attain high standards of Scottish referees. They also have to ensure that what they do supply has to be above any reproach. Therefore there has to be complete transparency and the referees have to be accountable in an open fashion to all concerned.

[Hibs07p]

I've got no problem with that at all and agree that's how it should be. Just can't see how doing what they're doing will help them get that. It almost seems as if they're saying look at us we're bigger than the game.

I think the post above by TwoCarpets answers that.

[Hibs07p]

I guess it would have to be?

Your absolutely spot on, there would be no pot of referees at any level in Scotland if that were to happen.

So the SFA are duty bound to attain high standards of Scottish referees. They also have to ensure that what they do supply has to be above any reproach. Therefore there has to be complete transparency and the referees have to be accountable in an open fashion to all concerned.

:agree:

[BoltonHibee]

From the Scotsman (http://sport.scotsman.com/refereeing-controversies/In-full-The-statement-from.6639697.jp)

"After this weekend, the referees will return to the field and will continue dialogue with the governing body to develop well-thought through and meaningful measures in an environment of mutual respect."

I cant see why they couldnt return this weekend though, what does this weekend off actually get them?

[StevieC]

And would this be a contract with another FA?
How would that effect the already ludicrous situation that 80% of new refs in Scotland jack it after less than 6 months due to the crap that they get, young guys stick at it with the carrot that they can referee at the very top level. It's a hard and difficult road with the only support from other referee's I would imagine.
Take away that carrot and you turn off the tap to recruiting new referee's, how long would it take for there to be not enough refs for kids fitba, amateur games and the lower leagues.

Some good points.

When I was referee secretary in the Perth Sunday League, I had to bring referees in from Dundee (and pay expenses accordingly) due to the lack of referees in the area.

Or rather, I should say lack of referees in the area willing to participate in the league .. mostly due to the reputation of the league in respect to referee abuse.

It took the league about 3 years of disciplining offending players (and teams) really hard before the message finally sank in and local referees started coming back.

[Hibs07p]

"After this weekend, the referees will return to the field and will continue dialogue with the governing body to develop well-thought through and meaningful measures in an environment of mutual respect."

I cant see why they couldnt return this weekend though, what does this weekend off actually get them?

They get publicity regarding their plight because actions are louder than words, and a good bargaining chip in their next round of pay negotiations. If they can afford to bring in foreign referees and pay their associated expenses, the Scottish referees are probably worth more than they currently get paid.
Goodnight.

[PaulSmith]

I guess it would have to be?

Your absolutely spot on, there would be no pot of referees at any level in Scotland if that were to happen.

So the SFA are duty bound to attain high standards of Scottish referees. They also have to ensure that what they do supply has to be above any reproach. Therefore there has to be complete transparency and the referees have to be accountable in an open fashion to all concerned.

So by getting rid of Dallas who has done more than anyone in the last 30 years for refereeing in Scotland by increasing fitness, ensuring that poor performing refs are punished, creating a new professionalism, ensuring that the laws of the game tests are completed and erses kicked if marks are below standard, made himself open for ANY club in the land to question (in private) decisions is a good start?
Beyond reproach, please expand. Macdonald trying to cover his 'mates' erse by saying that he shouted "dougie dougie" rather than having the bottle to stick his flag up.
They are accountable. Please explain why you believe that they aren't.
Transparency - again what do you want? A referee can only say that they for example believed that it was a pen at the time or it wasn't.
Are you able to say how Scottish refs benchmark against other countries, again interested to hear who these flawless refs are who never make mistakes and why they'd want to ref in Scotland each week.

[PISTOL1875]

Oh go on - actual proof?? When has this cheating occured??

And do you think they are just making up the threats against them and their families for ****s and giggles?? :confused:

Take a look at this then and tell me what you think ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCJUzPGjiao

[BoltonHibee]

Take a look at this then and tell me what you think ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCJUzPGjiao

No...No...not good enough. Further proof required please:wink:

[Twa Cairpets]

Take a look at this then and tell me what you think ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCJUzPGjiao

Go to 25-27 secs and look at refs eyeline. Utd player blocked by both tackler and another Hun. It was a foul, but if you dont see it, you dont give it.

47secs - From the angle the linesmen had it the Utd player (who is in an offside position) looks like he touches the ball, even in slow mo. Made an error though no doubt.

1.35 - Cousin incident - referee clearly looking (literally:wink:) the other direction, following play, as he should be.

The fact that the first two were clearly errors insofar as the wrong decision was made (the third was clearly and demonstrably unseen by the ref) does not show bias or bottling it shows errors and (in the case of the first one) bad luck.

The alternative conclusion is that before the game, for the second one in particular, the officials colluded that if just such an incident occurred, the linesman should flag for offside.

Occams razor applies here.

[Sylar]

Glad to read that the chairmen of several SFL clubs are looking into obtaining compensation for loss of earnings, as their games will now be rescheduled to midweek fixtures.

Utter disgrace that clubs in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd division should suffer because of the actions of the deluded communist banker and paranoid ginger tim twat.

Scottish Football couldn't be any more of a laughing stock right now :bitchy:

[BEEJ]

Go to 25-27 secs and look at refs eyeline. Utd player blocked by both tackler and another Hun. It was a foul, but if you dont see it, you dont give it.

47secs - From the angle the linesmen had it the Utd player (who is in an offside position) looks like he touches the ball, even in slow mo. Made an error though no doubt.

1.35 - Cousin incident - referee clearly looking (literally:wink:) the other direction, following play, as he should be.

The fact that the first two were clearly errors insofar as the wrong decision was made (the third was clearly and demonstrably unseen by the ref) does not show bias or bottling it shows errors and (in the case of the first one) bad luck.

The alternative conclusion is that before the game, for the second one in particular, the officials colluded that if just such an incident occurred, the linesman should flag for offside.

Occams razor applies here.
But now .....

... imagine exactly the same scenario unfolding in reverse at Tannadice with all those decisions going in favour of United.

:hmmm:

Just wouldn't happen, would it?

It may not be a lack of integrity - but there's certainly intense pressure on all the match officials at OF matches. It's about the benefit of the doubt in what are seen in that instant to be marginal decisions. More often than not the OF side will get the benefit of the doubt.

[Twa Cairpets]

But now .....

... imagine exactly the same scenario unfolding in reverse at Tannadice with all those decisions going in favour of United.

:hmmm:

Just wouldn't happen, would it?

It may not be a lack of integrity - but there's certainly intense pressure on all the match officials at OF matches. It's about the benefit of the doubt in what are seen in that instant to be marginal decisions. More often than not the OF side will get the benefit of the doubt.

Why not? First one referee unsighted, second one linesman thinks a stiker touched the ball, third one "off the ball".

If these incidents had happened (as similar ones have) in games not involving the OF, then its called incompetence, if its the OF involved, it suddenly becomes bias or corruption.

[Bishop Hibee]

"It was instead a genuine call for a moment of reflection by all who love the game in Scotland and a desire to see a real and fundamental reappraisal of football's and society's relationship with its referees."

What is this mince? Refs have been abused from the terraces and stands since football began and that will never change. If the above means no death threats then fair enough but that's Celtic and Hearts problem for saying refs/SFA are corrupt, not the rest of Sottish football. The trigger for the Grade 1 refs to go on strike was John Reid's statement at his shareholders' meeting. If he'd struck a more conciliatory tone then they wouldn't have gone on strike. Instead he ratcheted up the issue of 'integrity of referees'.

While I support their right to do so, to go on strike with no demands is frankly bizarre. The only way forward is compromise with a signed declaration by all clubs that referees are not biased against Celtic, Hearts or any other club.

I would argue that the OF by their nature as the clubs with the highest media profile get away with more e.g. throat grabber Weir, diver McGregor and McBride being sent of against the Huns for accidently kicking the ball into the back of a Hun when the whistle had not yet been blown to halt the game. Numerous occasions when Celtic got 'odd' decisions against such as Uli Larsson being sent of for hand ball when lying on the ground with his hands at his chest and the ball blasting off him. Dallas couldn't wait to show the red card.

The SFA, and by this I include ALL member clubs, need to grow some balls and stand up to the OF. That would be a start to sort out the problems in Scottish football.

[HibbyScott]

Glad to read that the chairmen of several SFL clubs are looking into obtaining compensation for loss of earnings, as their games will now be rescheduled to midweek fixtures.

Utter disgrace that clubs in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd division should suffer because of the actions of the deluded communist banker and paranoid ginger tim twat.

Scottish Football couldn't be any more of a laughing stock right now :bitchy:

To be honest Scott, I don't know how many people outside of Scotland actually know whats going on with regards to the strike this weekend. Few of my mates down here are pretty big fans of their English teams, and when I asked them what they thought of the situation, and not one of them actually knew what was happening.

I agree that it is an absolute disgrace that the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Division clubs are suffering because of this though. Saturday afternoon games probably make up a quite sizeable chunk of their income.

[snooky]

Assuming most of us here are on the side of the refs and that they appreciate our support, here's a hypothetical question.

You're the ref in a Hibs v Celtic game. There's a real 50/50 call for a penalty (doesn't matter which end).
Do you....
a) Give the decision to Celtic to prove there's no animosity or conspiracy.
b) Give the decision to Hibs because their fans were "on your side" during the strike.
c) Consult the linesman and go with what he thinks (assuming that it's not Andy Davis)
d) Blow the whistle and re-start the game with a drop ball.
e) Say "B****r this for a game of sodjers. I've had enough" and go home.

Personally, if an incident like this does come about I will be more than intrigued to see what transpires.

[Heraghty's]

It's been claimed Dallas offered to call the strike off if Regan called off the investigation into his anti-Catholic email (which, it appears, may not have been the only anti-Catholic email he sent).
The refs have deliberately not said what the aims of their protest are.
This stuff about death threats is a very cynical smokescreen which demeans all of Scotland. Have police been called in? Nope.
We were told that Craven resigned due to threats. He said that was a lie.
This whole shameful farrago has been about keeping Dallas in a job.
He has been shown to be a bigot and he -- and several other SFA staff -- are now facing the sack, if they don't resign first.
The SFA has been shown to be an institution where anti-Catholic sentiments are far from discouraged. A place where bigots can feel at home.
And that is what this referees strike has all been about -- an attempt to keep a bigot in his job.
Yet this shower of chancers want every club in the country to formally declare that they are honest, decent and of unimpeachable integrity? :grr:
How can we ever trust these cheats again?
Sack the lot of them. :agree:

[marinello59]

It's been claimed Dallas offered to call the strike off if Regan called off the investigation into his anti-Catholic email (which, it appears, may not have been the only anti-Catholic email he sent).
The refs have deliberately not said what the aims of their protest are.
This stuff about death threats is a very cynical smokescreen which demeans all of Scotland. Have police been called in? Nope.
We were told that Craven resigned due to threats. He said that was a lie.
This whole shameful farrago has been about keeping Dallas in a job.
He has been shown to be a bigot and he -- and several other SFA staff -- are now facing the sack, if they don't resign first.
The SFA has been shown to be an institution where anti-Catholic sentiments are far from discouraged. A place where bigots can feel at home.
And that is what this referees strike has all been about -- an attempt to keep a bigot in his job.
Yet this shower of chancers want every club in the country to formally declare that they are honest, decent and of unimpeachable integrity? :grr:
How can we ever trust these cheats again?
Sack the lot of them. :agree:

Garbage. Your entire post is a concoction of rumour, supposition and just plain ranting. Are you John Reid?

[Part/Time Supporter]

There has only been one conspiracy in all of this - Neil Lennon's deliberate strategy of "influencing" referees.

in his own words (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/8737496.stm)

[Twa Cairpets]

Assuming most of us here are on the side of the refs and that they appreciate our support, here's a hypothetical question.

You're the ref in a Hibs v Celtic game. There's a real 50/50 call for a penalty (doesn't matter which end).
Do you....
a) Give the decision to Celtic to prove there's no animosity or conspiracy.
b) Give the decision to Hibs because their fans were "on your side" during the strike.
c) Consult the linesman and go with what he thinks (assuming that it's not Andy Davis)
d) Blow the whistle and re-start the game with a drop ball.
e) Say "B****r this for a game of sodjers. I've had enough" and go home.

Personally, if an incident like this does come about I will be more than intrigued to see what transpires.

You've missed the option that will happen.

The ref will give a decision based entirely on what he has seen. If he thinks there is an infringement, he'll blow, If he doens't, he won't.

[SidBurns]

And would this be a contract with another FA?
How would that effect the already ludicrous situation that 80% of new refs in Scotland jack it after less than 6 months due to the crap that they get, young guys stick at it with the carrot that they can referee at the very top level. It's a hard and difficult road with the only support from other referee's I would imagine.
Take away that carrot and you turn off the tap to recruiting new referee's, how long would it take for there to be not enough refs for kids fitba, amateur games and the lower leagues.

There already isn't enough referees on a Saturday & Sunday. I certainly can't remember a weekend where all amateur/youth teams have had matches or a weekend where I haven't heard a story of a referee failing to show.

[Kaiser1962]

Or maybe they all, or most of them feel the same?

What about the SFA and the SPL too?

Maybe its a bit like asking motorists opinions on traffic wardens?:dunno:

[Sprouleflyer]

Why not? First one referee unsighted, second one linesman thinks a stiker touched the ball, third one "off the ball".

If these incidents had happened (as similar ones have) in games not involving the OF, then its called incompetence, if its the OF involved, it suddenly becomes bias or corruption.

Valid points in regard to where the ref and linesman was for both incidents, however, for the penalty, the linesman would have been in the perfect postion, why did he not flag for a penalty?

For the goal, McCurry is only 10 yards away and while behind Weir, he would have clearly seem that the ball did not touch the United player.

There is also the change of mind from the linesman in Potters interview. The linesman first said the ball came off the united player then he changed his mind that the united player ran accross the goalies view.......20 yards out!!

The Old firm without a doubt, get so many more calls in their favour than any other teams.

[hibiedude]

Polish Referes has just withdraw from the SPL this weekend

[Simon70]

Polish Referes has just withdraw from the SPL this weekend

Source?

[hibee_girl]

Source?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/hibernian/212096-polish-referees-pull-out-of-scotland-trip-reports/

[Top Pans Hibby]

Source?

Headlines on Sky Sports News

"Scottish Referee Crisis Deepens"

Polish Officials Withdraw

[pentlando]

Been on Sky Sports News that Polish Officials have withdrawn, sure i heard there were supposed to be 3 games being taken by the Polish:confused: Not a good sign

[hibeenicol]

Source?

Sky sport news. I can't see the games being on this weekend, I think all the refs will stick together on this one throughout europe.

[Part/Time Supporter]

They could just cancel the three Scottish Cup games (which will probably be off due to the weather anyway). As long as the other refs turn up the SPL games should go ahead.

[Hibee87]

From what i have seen and heard the officials who were brought in were not aware they strike was due to death threats once they have heard this they have changed there minds saying they dotn want now. talk about even more confusion :confused:

[basehibby]

My guess is that a lot of the 85% who voted don't know why they're striking but think it's a dig at Celtic and maybe Hearts they're having so have said they agree with the refs.

I'm one of the 85% and feel your POV is a bit patronising.

Neil Lennon and Celtic in general have been indulging in a strategy of deliberately applying pressure to refs which is really tantamount to cheating. I find this disgusting and would holde the same opinion if any other club was to indulge in these antics - that's why I'm supporting the refs and NOT out of some petty dislike for Celtic or Hearts.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I am so proud to be Scottish this week. :bitchy:

[SidBurns]

One of Saturday's matches and the two on Sunday are off for the timebeing with the Poles confirming they will not send over any officials.

Personally, I hope all the games get cancelled. Then and only then will the SPL/SFA listen!

[SidBurns]

I am so proud to be Scottish this week. :bitchy:

What has the Ref's being on strike really made you feel unproud to be a Scot!?!

[Saorsa]

One of Saturday's matches and the two on Sunday are off for the timebeing with the Poles confirming they will not send over any officials.

Personally, I hope all the games get cancelled. Then and only then will the SPL/SFA listen!aye, then we can freeze our baws of on a Wednesday night and lose another 3pm Saturday KO. :bitchy:

[Phil D. Rolls]

What has the Ref's being on strike really made you feel unproud to be a Scot!?!

It's what has led up to it. We live in a petty, regressive nation where bitterness and rancour are our staple diet.

We are so useless we can't even organise a sporting tournament. If we weren't fighting about religion we'd find something else. Make no mistake we will be a laughing stock because of this.

[snooky]

You've missed the option that will happen.

The ref will give a decision based entirely on what he has seen. If he thinks there is an infringement, he'll blow, If he doens't, he won't.

I didn't miss your option, 2C.
I purposely said a "50/50" call meaning that it wasn't clear cut to the referee himself. That was the whole point of my post.

My guess would be he would either give the decision to the defending team or play on.

Re your 'option' - I don't doubt for a minute he would call it as he sees it.

Also, the question was worded so that the decision was to be that of the post reader, assuming he/she was the ref.
(BTW, part of the post was meant to be a bit tongue-in-the-cheek) :wink:

[JimBHibees]

It would be interesting to see what the vote would be now that teams (SFL) are being punished directly for this and potentially SPL games could now be called off if foreign refs call off. Personally the refs can stick any sympathy they may have initially had where the sun doesnt shine.

[blackpoolhibs]

I was shocked they managed to get replacement ref's. Now they are finding out what they are striking for, it would not surprise me if the others pull out too, and all games are cancelled.

[franks]

If the ref is unsure whether a penalty should be awarded (50/50) then the spot kick should not be awarded and I would expect the referee to play on.

[JimBHibees]

Why not? First one referee unsighted, second one linesman thinks a stiker touched the ball, third one "off the ball".



So you will be able to give an example when a non-OF team have got such a litany of awful decisions against one of the big two in their favour.

[matty_f]

I take it the refs and the other officials will be turning up at the games to stand outside, like other workers taking strike action?

Can't imagine that many of the punters on the way into the games will be full of respect if and when they see them standing there.

[Sir David Gray]

Up until today, I was certain that the 11 matches would be on this weekend.

However, I now have a funny feeling that all matches in Scotland will be called off by tonight.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

[IWasThere2016]

Up until today, I was certain that the 11 matches would be on this weekend.

However, I now have a funny feeling that all matches in Scotland will be called off by tonight.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

The Polish refs have withdrawn - cue chaos! :grr:

[SidBurns]

It's what has led up to it. We live in a petty, regressive nation where bitterness and rancour are our staple diet.

We are so useless we can't even organise a sporting tournament. If we weren't fighting about religion we'd find something else. Make no mistake we will be a laughing stock because of this.

I'm sure all countries have their problems though Filled Rolls. Plenty of examples out there at the moment. War or Refs Strike, mmm...

[Sir David Gray]

The Polish refs have withdrawn - cue chaos! :grr:

Yep, that's why I now have a funny feeling that all matches will be called off. :wink:

[snooky]

The Polish refs have withdrawn - cue chaos! :grr:

:snowman Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
The current weather conditions could give the authorities the ready made excuse they require.

[.Sean.]

The refs must be the only Poles on the planet to have turned down work in this country.

[HibeeMcGinn1]

Just phoned the ticket office. As far as they know the game is still on.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I'm sure all countries have their problems though Filled Rolls. Plenty of examples out there at the moment. War or Refs Strike, mmm...

In that context does the whole brouhaha about decisions being awarded against a football team because they are Irish not seem even more pathetic? There are massive injustices in the world, there is much suffering, but this week Scotland is getting angry about a playground squabble.

It could be just me (in fact I'm sure it is), but lately I've noticed how het up Scottish people get about petty issues. For example, there was a woman talking at the bus stop yesterday and she was very angry that "a child" had been sent home from "a school" because they were wearing wellies.

Fair enough, she might have been a one off, but I doubt it. I am getting sick to death of the amount of energy the Scots waste on silly matters, "it's no' fair" should be our national motto. This in a week where out Finance Minister admits to "forgetting" to renew the Parliaments tax raising powers.

If this was France, I doubt if a silly sporting argument would be grabbing as much attention as incompetent government. Still, wha's like us?

[Phil D. Rolls]

The refs must be the only Poles on the planet to have turned down work in this country.

Ker-toosh.:greengrin

[scoopyboy]

Just phoned the ticket office. As far as they know the game is still on.

The ticket office probably think you were meaning weather conditions, I doubt they will have heard of the referee issue.

[SidBurns]

In that context does the whole brouhaha about decisions being awarded against a football team because they are Irish not seem even more pathetic? There are massive injustices in the world, there is much suffering, but this week Scotland is getting angry about a playground squabble.

It could be just me (in fact I'm sure it is), but lately I've noticed how het up Scottish people get about petty issues. For example, there was a woman talking at the bus stop yesterday and she was very angry that "a child" had been sent home from "a school" because they were wearing wellies.

Fair enough, she might have been a one off, but I doubt it. I am getting sick to death of the amount of energy the Scots waste on silly matters, "it's no' fair" should be our national motto. This in a week where out Finance Minister admits to "forgetting" to renew the Parliaments tax raising powers.

If this was France, I doubt if a silly sporting argument would be grabbing as much attention as incompetent government. Still, wha's like us?

I just think it's a bit of a generalisation your making thats all.

Now I don't know if you've lived in other countries for a long period of time, if not, how do you know other countries aren't exactly the same as us!?!

On that note, I know for sure that the Aussies hate the E**lish as much as we do! :greengrin

[scoopyboy]

If the games are cancelled at this late stage I think the vast majority of those who were sympathetic to the referees cause will turn on them.

They have made their point, they should call it off now.

[snooky]

I just think it's a bit of a generalisation your making thats all.

Now I don't know if you've lived in other countries for a long period of time, if not, how do you know other countries aren't exactly the same as us!?!

On that note, I know for sure that the Aussies hate the E**lish as much as we do! :greengrin

Eh, just for the record - I don't.

[HibeeMcGinn1]

The ticket office probably think you were meaning weather conditions, I doubt they will have heard of the referee issue.

I mention the polish situation. Said they have heard nothing from the SFA.

[Twa Cairpets]

I didn't miss your option, 2C.
I purposely said a "50/50" call meaning that it wasn't clear cut to the referee himself. That was the whole point of my post.

My guess would be he would either give the decision to the defending team or play on.

Re your 'option' - I don't doubt for a minute he would call it as he sees it.

Also, the question was worded so that the decision was to be that of the post reader, assuming he/she was the ref.
(BTW, part of the post was meant to be a bit tongue-in-the-cheek) :wink:

Ahhhh

Actually, you'd be surprised how rarely this situation arises when you ref. I've been racking my brain to think of an example in a game I've done and I cant think of one (and I think I'm probably somewhere around the 900-1,000 game mark). If you're unsure if an offence is committed, you dont award anything, generally speaking. You learn very quickly that for "borderline" decisions (did he dive or was he pushed / hand ball or not hand ball / in or out the box / offside or not offside etc) you'll get stick from one side or the other anyway, so you go for what you immediately believe to be correct in the -what - one/two seconds you have to get your whistle to your mouth and make a call. I have no doubt that I've got loads of them wrong, but I do know at least theyve all been honestly wrong.

As an aside, like being a player, when you ref you come off the pitch knowing if you've had stinker. Last weekend for example I knew i'd had a great game, totally confident I got pretty much every decision spot-on and felt pretty chuffed. The week before I came off thinking I'd probably had a bit of a shocker. i reckon I missed an off the ball elbow and probably got an offside wrong that led to a goal. (In fact i know I did because the scoring teams coach told me after the game that he was off). Both these things were in the first 25 mins, and it absolutely set the tone for the game. Every decision not given from that point on became an outrage, and the (rather fine, imho) advantage played to allow the offended against team to score was ignored.

I suppose the point is you have good games and bad ones.

The best referees in the world make rrors - Graham Poll and his 3 yellow cards. Howard Webb in the World Cup Final not sending the dutch boy off for karate. Part and parcel of it all.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I just think it's a bit of a generalisation your making thats all.

Now I don't know if you've lived in other countries for a long period of time, if not, how do you know other countries aren't exactly the same as us!?!

On that note, I know for sure that the Aussies hate the E**lish as much as we do! :greengrin

Yes it's a generalisation, but I am not the first person to make this observation.

I am sure petty squabbles dominate the fabric of most small countries, but there can be few where a refereeing decision is seen as an affront to a large section of the populace, and fewer still where it can escalate to a national schism.

As for Australia, that strikes me as another place where people have little else to keep them occupied. :stirrer: :greengrin

[Twa Cairpets]

So you will be able to give an example when a non-OF team have got such a litany of awful decisions against one of the big two in their favour.

Nope, mostly because I cant be ersed. Im sure if you have a wander down kerrydale street you'll find plenty of links.

But its kind of not the point.

The original post was put up to definitively illustrate referee bias. When you look at it a bit closer, it doesnt because of 1) ref unsighted, 2) linesman error, 3) off-the-ball. You can say the officials should have been better positioned and you may have a point, but the incidents are not showing them up to be cheats.

One recurring theme on this thread is that "how does Weir and his gang get away with surrounding the ref". Doesnt it occur to anyone that this only happens after the referee has made a "controversial" decision against them?

[bawheid]

It would be interesting to see what the vote would be now that teams (SFL) are being punished directly for this and potentially SPL games could now be called off if foreign refs call off. Personally the refs can stick any sympathy they may have initially had where the sun doesnt shine.

I don't agree. Clubs, managers, players and fans need to be made aware that no referee = no game. There's a chance here for a complete change in the way football treats its officials. It's well overdue.

A culture that promotes respect and tolerence of referees' decisions will result in more people being willing to take up refereeing and an eventual improvement in refereeing standards.


If the games are cancelled at this late stage I think the vast majority of those who were sympathetic to the referees cause will turn on them.

They have made their point, they should call it off now.

They've not made their point yet IMO. Their point will be made when games are cancelled and people are inconvienced. Let's not forget who has caused this problem. It's not the referees.

Instead of dealing with the root cause of the problem, the SFA have been scrambling around trying to find any old referee to get games on. I don't think the issue will just go away. The referees should stand their ground and threaten further withdrawal of labour if the issues aren't dealt with.

[Twa Cairpets]

If the games are cancelled at this late stage I think the vast majority of those who were sympathetic to the referees cause will turn on them.

They have made their point, they should call it off now.

The on/off situation is entirely the fault of the SFA, surely? The somewhat tawdry hawking themselves round Europe looking for refs is the true embarassment.

For what its worth, I hope a late agreement can be reached too, but the refs have been pretty clear from the outset that they aint going to be there this weekend. Its not up to them to call the game off. Thats down to the SFA/SPL.

[discman]

[QUOTE=SidBurns;2646794]I just think it's a bit of a generalisation your making thats all.

Now I don't know if you've lived in other countries for a long period of time, if not, how do you know other countries aren't exactly the same as us!?!

On that note, I know for sure that the Aussies hate the E**lish as much as we do! :greengrin[/QUOTE

You hate all the English people in the world? Phew that must take some effort:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

[QUOTE=SidBurns;2646794]I just think it's a bit of a generalisation your making thats all.

Now I don't know if you've lived in other countries for a long period of time, if not, how do you know other countries aren't exactly the same as us!?!

On that note, I know for sure that the Aussies hate the E**lish as much as we do! :greengrin[/QUOTE

You hate all the English people in the world? Phew that must take some effort:greengrin

It's actually takes surprisingly little effort:greengrin

[Westie1875]

So the SFA apparently have a contract to provide refs for all spl matches, if they breach this contract what happens regarding lost revenue for clubs? Can the clubs sue the SFA for breach of contract here?

[Phil D. Rolls]

So the SFA apparently have a contract to provide refs for all spl matches, if they breach this contract what happens regarding lost revenue for clubs? Can the clubs sue the SFA for breach of contract here?

I think so.

[Bad Martini]

Yet ANOTHER occassion where I feel we should blame the huns :devil:

As for the refs, I dont agree.

A whole raft of them are no more than attention seeking getts, incompetent and bloody woeful.

I dont think they're biased (some are) a bigger problem is the fact some of them are so shight they could be tried for crimes against refereeing.

Theres millions of fowk unemployed. Surely someone else could learn (half?) the rules of the game and run about for an hour and a half on a Saturday???

Getts :grr:

[scoopyboy]

The on/off situation is entirely the fault of the SFA, surely? The somewhat tawdry hawking themselves round Europe looking for refs is the true embarassment.

For what its worth, I hope a late agreement can be reached too, but the refs have been pretty clear from the outset that they aint going to be there this weekend. Its not up to them to call the game off. Thats down to the SFA/SPL.

I meant calling their action off, NOT the games.

[StevieC]

So the SFA apparently have a contract to provide refs for all spl matches, if they breach this contract what happens regarding lost revenue for clubs? Can the clubs sue the SFA for breach of contract here?

They probably could sue, but I doubt they'd win.
The SFA could simply argue that the situation was brought about by the clubs themselves.

[PaulSmith]

Yet ANOTHER occassion where I feel we should blame the huns :devil:

As for the refs, I dont agree.

A whole raft of them are no more than attention seeking getts, incompetent and bloody woeful.

I dont think they're biased (some are) a bigger problem is the fact some of them are so shight they could be tried for crimes against refereeing.

Theres millions of fowk unemployed. Surely someone else could learn (half?) the rules of the game and run about for an hour and a half on a Saturday???

Getts :grr:

What's stopping them? The stigma of being a referee and the fact that they get slaughtered and don't think it's worth the hassle?

There's classes run twice a year in Edinburgh if anyone is interested go to the Edinburgh referee web site.

[scoopyboy]

I don't agree. Clubs, managers, players and fans need to be made aware that no referee = no game. There's a chance here for a complete change in the way football treats its officials. It's well overdue.

A culture that promotes respect and tolerence of referees' decisions will result in more people being willing to take up refereeing and an eventual improvement in refereeing standards.



They've not made their point yet IMO. Their point will be made when games are cancelled and people are inconvienced. Let's not forget who has caused this problem. It's not the referees.

Instead of dealing with the root cause of the problem, the SFA have been scrambling around trying to find any old referee to get games on. I don't think the issue will just go away. The referees should stand their ground and threaten further withdrawal of labour if the issues aren't dealt with.

The SFA have had no option but to scramble around trying to get referees, the SPL would have probably sued them as breach of contract.

You say its not the referees that has caused this problem, I've got mixed views on this. I think the standard of refereeing is poor in the SPL and having referees admitting they lied doesn't exactly make them squeaky clean.

However I do agree that the crap they take from employees of clubs and threats off the park are way beyond acceptable.

[StevieC]

I meant calling their action off, NOT the games.

Why should they call their action off because the SFA/SPL have made a dogs dinner of bringing in outside refs?

The refs have been very clear in what they intend to do and have given plenty of notice. The on/off situation has been brought about by others, thinking they'd be smart and bring in outside refs rather than sitting down with the refs and pulling out the stops to reach a comprimise.

Cant see how anyone could blame the refs for the uncertainty. :dunno:

[StevieC]

The SFA have had no option but to scramble around trying to get referees, the SPL would have probably sued them as breach of contract.

Thats like giving a bus driver dogs abuse and then trying to sue him for lost wages after he pulls over and puts you off the bus.


However I do agree that the crap they take from employees of clubs and threats off the park are way beyond acceptable.

Which seems like a complete contradiction from your earlier posts. :dunno:

It IS beyond acceptable. On the back of this the refs have given plenty of notice of their intended action to highlight the situation, and give those in charge the opportunity to rectify it.

Anything that has happened in the subsequent days is down to the SFA/SPL.

[scoopyboy]

Why should they call their action off because the SFA/SPL have made a dogs dinner of bringing in outside refs?

The refs have been very clear in what they intend to do and have given plenty of notice. The on/off situation has been brought about by others, thinking they'd be smart and bring in outside refs rather than sitting down with the refs and pulling out the stops to reach a comprimise.

Cant see how anyone could blame the refs for the uncertainty. :dunno:

I'm blaming the refs, simply because if I can't see Hibs tomorrow it's down to the fact that there isn't a referee.

If they feel so hard done to why don't they go on all out strike?

Did the miners go on a one weekend strike in the eighties?

They are striking this weekend but as of Monday they are happy to officiate again even though nothing has changed.

To me Hibs and St.Johnstone have played little part if any in this debacle but we get our game put in doubt.

Similarly Cowdenbeath are/ were at home to Dunfermline, a fixture that would have given them their biggest crowd in years and a good financial return. Again thwarted because of nothing they have done wrong.

To me Celtic are the only club that have been worse than any other season, so why don't the refs grow a pair and state they won't referee Celtic games until further notice.

[scoopyboy]

Thats like giving a bus driver dogs abuse and then trying to sue him for lost wages after he pulls over and puts you off the bus.



Which seems like a complete contradiction from your earlier posts. :dunno:

It IS beyond acceptable. On the back of this the refs have given plenty of notice of their intended action to highlight the situation, and give those in charge the opportunity to rectify it.

Anything that has happened in the subsequent days is down to the SFA/SPL.

The bus driver comparison is poor in my eyes. But to play your game then if the bus driver parked the bus in the middle of nowhere and stormed off in the huff then I (Celtic) would have no grounds for complaint but other passengers who have been left high and dry (other SPL / SFL teams) would be entitled to be furious.

[scoopyboy]

Thats like giving a bus driver dogs abuse and then trying to sue him for lost wages after he pulls over and puts you off the bus.



Which seems like a complete contradiction from your earlier posts. :dunno:

It IS beyond acceptable. On the back of this the refs have given plenty of notice of their intended action to highlight the situation, and give those in charge the opportunity to rectify it.

Anything that has happened in the subsequent days is down to the SFA/SPL.

Be fair Stevie, I said I had mixed views but you choose only to highlight one part and not the other.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'm one of the 85% and feel your POV is a bit patronising.

Neil Lennon and Celtic in general have been indulging in a strategy of deliberately applying pressure to refs which is really tantamount to cheating. I find this disgusting and would holde the same opinion if any other club was to indulge in these antics - that's why I'm supporting the refs and NOT out of some petty dislike for Celtic or Hearts.

Good for you. I don't think I said all of the 85% (now 80%) were swayed by anti-Celtic/Hearts feeling.


I take it the refs and the other officials will be turning up at the games to stand outside, like other workers taking strike action?

Can't imagine that many of the punters on the way into the games will be full of respect if and when they see them standing there.

It seems that 85% (now 80%) of them will give them the respect they deserve when they walk past the "picket" line.


I don't agree. Clubs, managers, players and fans need to be made aware that no referee = no game. There's a chance here for a complete change in the way football treats its officials. It's well overdue.

Noone's bigger than the game? Except the referee when he's in the huff?



They've not made their point yet IMO. Their point will be made when games are cancelled and people are inconvienced. Let's not forget who has caused this problem. It's not the referees.


Who did cause this problem? How many death threats and emails to referee's work are we talking about here?

Why are they punishing the majority to sort out the minority?

[Twa Cairpets]

The SFA have had no option but to scramble around trying to get referees, the SPL would have probably sued them as breach of contract.

You say its not the referees that has caused this problem, I've got mixed views on this. I think the standard of refereeing is poor in the SPL and having referees admitting they lied doesn't exactly make them squeaky clean.

However I do agree that the crap they take from employees of clubs and threats off the park are way beyond acceptable.

As per an earlier post, the "McDonald lie" was not for an on field decision, which was correct and brave. Its important not to conflate the two. I dont care what he does off the park as long as what happens in the match is correct.

People will debate forever about the standard of refs, and I think its fair to say that no-one could point to a golden age when they were all loved. I've been going for 35 years or so, and I certainly cant recall a time when refs weren't howled at for there incompetence, real or imagined. Current refs I think are generally better - certainly fitter (anyone recall Andrew Waddell?), but maybe with less of the player interaction there used to be - hardly surprising when you think about it because if they share a joke with a player they're automatically accused of sucking up to them.

They all do make errors, and if youre looking for a perfect referee with a guarantee of no mistakes, you'll have a long wait.

The key reason for the downward spiral of opinion on their ability is the much higher intensity of analysis on TV, radio and forums like this. the principle of Confirmation Bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) kicks in, and the "accepted wisdom" develops to a greater and more intense level.

[scoopyboy]

As per an earlier post, the "McDonald lie" was not for an on field decision, which was correct and brave. Its important not to conflate the two. I dont care what he does off the park as long as what happens in the match is correct.

People will debate forever about the standard of refs, and I think its fair to say that no-one could point to a golden age when they were all loved. I've been going for 35 years or so, and I certainly cant recall a time when refs weren't howled at for there incompetence, real or imagined. Current refs I think are generally better - certainly fitter (anyone recall Andrew Waddell?), but maybe with less of the player interaction there used to be - hardly surprising when you think about it because if they share a joke with a player they're automatically accused of sucking up to them.

They all do make errors, and if youre looking for a perfect referee with a guarantee of no mistakes, you'll have a long wait.

The key reason for the downward spiral of opinion on their ability is the much higher intensity of analysis on TV, radio and forums like this. the principle of Confirmation Bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) kicks in, and the "accepted wisdom" develops to a greater and more intense level.

Lying is lying, end of. Do you seriously think we should try to bring up kids by saying sometimes it is acceptable to tell a bare faced lie and sometimes it isn't. How to confuse a kid in one easy lesson.

Referees have never been popular, I agree with that but the big difference this season is because of the game at Tannadice and the lengths Celtic went to afterwards.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm blaming the refs, simply because if I can't see Hibs tomorrow it's down to the fact that there isn't a referee.

If they feel so hard done to why don't they go on all out strike?

Did the miners go on a one weekend strike in the eighties?

They are striking this weekend but as of Monday they are happy to officiate again even though nothing has changed.

To me Hibs and St.Johnstone have played little part if any in this debacle but we get our game put in doubt.

Similarly Cowdenbeath are/ were at home to Dunfermline, a fixture that would have given them their biggest crowd in years and a good financial return. Again thwarted because of nothing they have done wrong.

To me Celtic are the only club that have been worse than any other season, so why don't the refs grow a pair and state they won't referee Celtic games until further notice.

I'd imagine they had one day strikes leading up to when they decided to go on full strike.The bus drivers have done this, as have the train drivers? If you back the ref's then you have to back them 100%. We cant be swayed just because we don't get to see our team. If you don't back the ref's then whatever they do will be wrong.

[Green_one]

All this makes me dislike the SFA, OF (Celtic) and Refs more than I did before.

Cancelling our game, if this happens, is a blow to Scottish football that I cannot forgive.

All of the above parties are guilty in some part in bringing this upon us (Hibs, Dundee United etc). Hearts cannot moan too much as they entered the debate a few times.

worst of all is where does this lead us? Celtic think they have won a watch (God knows why) the refs think they have won something and now know how to excercise their power and the SFA sits back and does sweet SFA. The fans and the clubs get **** on even though we have done nothing wrong. Its a complete joke. :grr::grr: Do Refs honestly think this will make them more popular and does Celtic really see a win out of this? Confused and unhappy:confused::boo hoo:

Its about time the club chairmen really got on their soap boxes.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I'd imagine they had one day strikes leading up to when they decided to go on full strike.The bus drivers have done this, as have the train drivers? If you back the ref's then you have to back them 100%. We cant be swayed just because we don't get to see our team. If you don't back the ref's then whatever they do will be wrong.

Is there any word on when the next strike is going to be? Normally if there are a series of one-day strikes before all-out strike the dates are out in the public domain.

[SidBurns]

What's stopping them? The stigma of being a referee and the fact that they get slaughtered and don't think it's worth the hassle?

There's classes run twice a year in Edinburgh if anyone is interested go to the Edinburgh referee web site.

Yip, one starting in Midlothian February next year...

[SidBurns]

All this makes me dislike the SFA, OF (Celtic) and Refs more than I did before.

Cancelling our game, if this happens, is a blow to Scottish football that I cannot forgive.

All of the above parties are guilty in some part in bringing this upon us (Hibs, Dundee United etc). Hearts cannot moan too much as they entered the debate a few times.

worst of all is where does this lead us? Celtic think they have won a watch (God knows why) the refs think they have won something and now know how to excercise their power and the SFA sits back and does sweet SFA. The fans and the clubs get **** on even though we have done nothing wrong. Its a complete joke. :grr::grr: Do Refs honestly think this will make them more popular and does Celtic really see a win out of this? Confused and unhappy:confused::boo hoo:

Its about time the club chairmen really got on their soap boxes.

I don't personally think the Refs are thinking they have won anything/something. They feared for their safety and integrity therefore decided enough is enough.

Refs aren't popular, and never have been, anyway so why would they think that!?!

The whole debacle has went far too far now but it is what it is and we'll all have to deal with the consequences.

One or more of a few things will happen over the next week:-

1. McDonald & Dallas will resign making Celtic 'win' as you put it
2. The SFA will issue a statement saying any Manager 'morning' about a Referee will be harshly dealt with from now on
3. Lennon will get a lengthy touchline ban
4. The strike will go on for longer (doubtful IMO)
5. The SPL will have their own Referees

Any others to add to the list!?! :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Is there any word on when the next strike is going to be? Normally if there are a series of one-day strikes before all-out strike the dates are out in the public domain.

I'd have thought the ref's would be hoping they don't have to go down that road?

[bawheid]

The SFA have had no option but to scramble around trying to get referees, the SPL would have probably sued them as breach of contract.

You say its not the referees that has caused this problem, I've got mixed views on this. I think the standard of refereeing is poor in the SPL and having referees admitting they lied doesn't exactly make them squeaky clean.

However I do agree that the crap they take from employees of clubs and threats off the park are way beyond acceptable.

And this is the problem with having too many cooks spoiling the broth...SFA, SPL, SFL...

The SFA is an association of clubs, including Celtic, Rangers and the rest of the SPL. The SPL is a group of clubs playing in the top division. I've not heard any threat from Neil Doncastor to sue the SFA for unfulfilled matches. Both organisations should concentrate on getting to the root of the problem.



Noone's bigger than the game? Except the referee when he's in the huff?

Who did cause this problem? How many death threats and emails to referee's work are we talking about here?

Why are they punishing the majority to sort out the minority?

Correct, no one is bigger than the game. But IMO the game should involve some sort of respect for the referee's decisions and certainly their integrity. The referees have had to put up with an increasing level of nonsense from all clubs, although some have been worse than others.

It's not just about death threats etc. Football would be a better sport if we didn't have players and managers surrounding officials after every decision. All IMO.

[StevieC]

I'm blaming the refs, simply because if I can't see Hibs tomorrow it's down to the fact that there isn't a referee.

Games get postponed for all sorts of reasons, you'd need to be pretty bitter to start looking to apportion blame somewhere every time it happened.
You said above that you agreed the refs had a case but it sounds like your saying that despite this they're not allowed to do anything about it? :dunno:


If they feel so hard done to why don't they go on all out strike?

Is that what you'd want, to make you happy? I'd hope that would be a last resort.


Did the miners go on a one weekend strike in the eighties?

As you'll probably remember, it did actually start out that way.
It started off with a couple of localised walk-outs. You then had the heavy handed intervention from the Conservative government which escalated the whole situation beyond control, and the eventual result was catastrophic.

Can't honestly see a real comparison to peoples livelihoods and a game of football though. :hmmm:


They are striking this weekend but as of Monday they are happy to officiate again even though nothing has changed.

Do you honestly think they expect an overnight change? They are using action to highlight a problem (to show how serious they are) and will then look towards the governing bodies to make efforts to impliment changes to improve their working conditions.


To me Hibs and St.Johnstone have played little part if any in this debacle but we get our game put in doubt.

So do we just pick on teams that we think are the cause of the problem then? Who decides who these teams are? Who decides what level of abuse is acceptable before a team falls in to this category?

[Twa Cairpets]

Lying is lying, end of. Do you seriously think we should try to bring up kids by saying sometimes it is acceptable to tell a bare faced lie and sometimes it isn't. How to confuse a kid in one easy lesson.

Referees have never been popular, I agree with that but the big difference this season is because of the game at Tannadice and the lengths Celtic went to afterwards.

Absolutely, but again its the context of the the "lie". if you're looking for football to be full of paragons of virtue and role models for kids, its a bit odd to point to the refs (even those who have told, what is in the grand scheme of things, a very white lie) as the key perpetrators of dishonest behaviour.

Do parents screaming at refs from the terracing set an acceptable level of moral guidance?

[StevieC]

Refs aren't popular, and never have been

Which makes it quite amazing that 80% of those that have voted are backing the people that we love to hate.

:hmmm:

[StevieC]

Lying is lying, end of. Do you seriously think we should try to bring up kids by saying sometimes it is acceptable to tell a bare faced lie and sometimes it isn't.

Shhhhh :shhhsh!:

At least wait until the fat bloke in the red suit has finished his deliveries before we discuss this subject.

:wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Which makes it quite amazing that 80% of those that have voted are backing the people that we love to hate.

:hmmm:

I think that kind of backs my point up as well. Folk hate Celtic/Hearts more than they back the refs.

[Twa Cairpets]

Good for you. I don't think I said all of the 85% (now 80%) were swayed by anti-Celtic/Hearts feeling.

It seems that 85% (now 80%) of them will give them the respect they deserve when they walk past the "picket" line.

Noone's bigger than the game? Except the referee when he's in the huff?

Who did cause this problem? How many death threats and emails to referee's work are we talking about here?

Why are they punishing the majority to sort out the minority?

Right. Who was it?

Was it Hugh Dallas? Or maybe Willie Collum. Surely not Craig Thomson?

One of them has quite clearly done something very personal to you to make you loathe them so much. Slept with your missus maybe? Tortured your cat? Spilled your pint?

You want a football match, you need a referee. Your attitude of generalised hatred because they've spolied your Saturday and are evidently all part of a massive conspiracy is the reason why it is deemed acceptable to treat referees as some sort of lowlife, and a fair target for abuse and threats.

Every referee I know accepts that in a passionate game like football, people say things they regret. We accept that it happens, and generally shrug it off during a game unless its gets personal and threatening. when people like you carry on the grudge off the pitch, and harbour a permanent loathing against all referees, thats when you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

Referees are there to apply the laws of the game. They apply them to the best of their ability, and you know what, it doesnt if you or anyone else think they are great, indifferent or bad at it, they do not deserve to be abused, threatened or in any way harassed because of it.

There's referees who I like on a personal level, and referees who I wouldnt want to have a pint with under any circumstances because they are fuds. But I dislike them because of how I find their personal character, not because they are referees. You seem to have a homogenous loathing of them all because they have a whistle. Have you ever stopped to think how petty minded that is?

[scoopyboy]

Games get postponed for all sorts of reasons, you'd need to be pretty bitter to start looking to apportion blame somewhere every time it happened. I realise that, I do get annoyed when say peoples undersoil heating isn't switched on and I feel I am right to be annoyed. If however a foot of snow has fallen then I have no gripe whatsoever. Each case treated individually in my view.You said above that you agreed the refs had a case but it sounds like your saying that despite this they're not allowed to do anything about it? :dunno:
They have made their case and achieved news headlines all over Britain and now beyond. I would say that is enough in the meantime and if they now don't see improvement then revisit again.

Is that what you'd want, to make you happy? I'd hope that would be a last resort. I want it resolved today.



As you'll probably remember, it did actually start out that way.
It started off with a couple of localised walk-outs. You then had the heavy handed intervention from the Conservative government which escalated the whole situation beyond control, and the eventual result was catastrophic.

I do indeed remember

Can't honestly see a real comparison to peoples livelihoods and a game of football though. :hmmm:

They choose to do it for payment and see fit to be in a union and have brought their albeit part time occupation to a halt. A game of football as you put it affects many peoples livlihoods, any professional footballer for starters.

Do you honestly think they expect an overnight change? They are using action to highlight a problem (to show how serious they are) and will then look towards the governing bodies to make efforts to impliment changes to improve their working conditions.

No, it has to be worked towards, but they have put down their side of things and I'm saying that is enough to get the ball rolling.


So do we just pick on teams that we think are the cause of the problem then? Who decides who these teams are? Who decides what level of abuse is acceptable before a team falls in to this category?

[B]Yes. The governing bodies. The governing bodies.

Who decides when refs get downgraded?

Who decides which teams get pulled up for poor discipline?

The governing bodies which I reckon you are fully aware of.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Seems the Polish refs aren't coming cos they've got their own games to cover not because of any sympathy with our guys.According to ralksport

Did they forget about these fixtures when they agreed to come? If so, they must be even more incompetent than our lot.

Still, I'm sure our boys will learn a lot from the Maltese refs.:greengrin

[scoopyboy]

Shhhhh :shhhsh!:

At least wait until the fat bloke in the red suit has finished his deliveries before we discuss this subject.

:wink:

Got me there chief.

[GreenCastle]

Scottish football is in a real mess right now...

My hated towards Celtic and Rangers continues to grow - typical OF moaning when they don't get their way.

Football should go the way rugby is - fully respect the ref or you get a card / sent off / fine.

What happens this weekend will be interesting - what happens if the refs make mistakes ?

What are the costs to the game for the travelling refs - air fares etc - money that could be put into grassroots football :grr:

Some of the planned foreign refs have now pulled out of coming...where does that leave us ?

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/editor-s-picks/strike-breaker-polish-refs-pull-out-of-scots-games-1.1071060

[StevieC]

I think that kind of backs my point up as well. Folk hate Celtic/Hearts more than they back the refs.

I honestly cant see how you can reach that conclusion??
The poll clearly asks "Do you support the refs stance this weekend?"
Nowhere in that does it mention Celtic/Hearts.
Are you suggesting that those voting are unable to give a rational answer??
Personally, I think that it backs up the point that, despite them often being a target of abuse, the majority of supporters DO feel that they are hard done by and support their actions.
I think you do supporters an injustice by suggesting that their decision is based on hatred rather than genuine sympathy.

[steviehfc]

I honestly cant see how you can reach that conclusion??
The poll clearly asks "Do you support the refs stance this weekend?"
Nowhere in that does it mention Celtic/Hearts.
Are you suggesting that those voting are unable to give a rational answer??
Personally, I think that it backs up the point that, despite them often being a target of abuse, the majority of supporters DO feel that they are hard done by and support their actions.
I think you do supporters an injustice by suggesting that their decision is based on hatred rather than genuine sympathy.Spot on. :top marks

[StevieC]

I want it resolved today.

I'm sure the refs do as well, aint going to happen though.

When I was involved with a Sunday football league it took over 2 years of action against clubs and players before referee abuse was reduced to a level that saw local referees start to put themselves forward for games again.


They choose to do it for payment and see fit to be in a union and have brought their albeit part time occupation to a halt. A game of football as you put it affects many peoples livlihoods, any professional footballer for starters.

I'm sorry, for a second there it sounded like you were making a direct comparison to the hardships (and deaths) endured by the miners to the hardship that a postponed game would cause for one of todays professional footballers.
I'm hopefully mistaken though.


No, it has to be worked towards, but they have put down their side of things and I'm saying that is enough to get the ball rolling.


The ball has been rolling for some time. How often has the idea of foreign referees been banded about in the news over the last few years? How often has the team a referee may (or may not) have supported as a kid been brought into question? It seems clear that things have been left to escalate, rather than attempts being made to stop the rolling of the ball.
I think the latest outburst is the straw that broke the camels back.

[Danderhall Hibs]

There's referees who I like on a personal level, and referees who I wouldnt want to have a pint with under any circumstances because they are fuds. But I dislike them because of how I find their personal character, not because they are referees. You seem to have a homogenous loathing of them all because they have a whistle. Have you ever stopped to think how petty minded that is?

I don't hate referees I just disagree with their method of complaint on this ocassion. They've received some (don't know how many) death threats and some emails to their work which obviously shouldn't happen. How many times has this happened? My opinion is they want to be noticed and to do so they're making a "we're bigger than the game" type statement and trying to stop a minority but hitting the majority.

I think there's only one group being petty minded in this "dispute".


I honestly cant see how you can reach that conclusion??
The poll clearly asks "Do you support the refs stance this weekend?"
Nowhere in that does it mention Celtic/Hearts.
Are you suggesting that those voting are unable to give a rational answer??
Personally, I think that it backs up the point that, despite them often being a target of abuse, the majority of supporters DO feel that they are hard done by and support their actions.
I think you do supporters an injustice by suggesting that their decision is based on hatred rather than genuine sympathy.

I'm not suggesting that all those voting are unable to give a rational answer.


Look at the number of posts on this thread blaming Celtic for the strike - yet the referees say they're striking because of death threats and emails, not because of Celtic.

[GloryGlory]

I don't hate referees I just disagree with their method of complaint on this ocassion. They've received some (don't know how many) death threats and some emails to their work which obviously shouldn't happen. How many times has this happened? My opinion is they want to be noticed and to do so they're making a "we're bigger than the game" type statement and trying to stop a minority but hitting the majority.



I keep reading about these death threats - presumably, the police have been informed and are conducting an investigation, threatening to kill someone being a serious criminal offence.

[marinello59]

Look at the number of posts on this thread blaming Celtic for the strike - yet the referees say they're striking because of death threats and emails, not because of Celtic.

You fail to mention that they are also striking because their integrity has been repeatedly questioned.
The emails etc are hardly a minor matter though are they? How would you like your employer contacted anonymously asking why they are employing somebody so obviously crooked and/or bigoted? One death threat is one too many. Being abused in the street in front of your family because of something that happened on a football pitch? That's crazy. These incidents become much more frequent when they are fuelled by those within the game scattering about innuendo and accusations without foundation. That's all been reported and discussed yet you still claim to know nothing about their motivation and dismiss their actions as some sort of childish attention seeking. I don't think for a moment referees think they are bigger than the game but one thing is for sure, without those willing to put themselves in the firing line we don't have a game.

[bighairyfaeleith]

You fail to mention that they are also striking because their integrity has been repeatedly questioned.
The emails etc are hardly a minor matter though are they? How would you like your employer contacted anonymously asking why they are employing somebody so obviously crooked and/or bigoted? One death threat is one too many. Being abused in the street in front of your family because of something that happened on a football pitch? That's crazy. These incidents become much more frequent when they are fuelled by those within the game scattering about innuendo and accusations without foundation. That's all been reported and discussed yet you still claim to know nothing about their motivation and dismiss their actions as some sort of childish attention seeking. I don't think for a moment referees think they are bigger than the game but one thing is for sure, without those willing to put themselves in the firing line we don't have a game.

Your right, the problem here is that the SFA give the refs zero chance of being able to make informed decisions during the game and zero support after the game.

As someone mentioned earlier, the refs just explaining there decisions wouldn't work as people at that point just don't want to listen, they want to shout.

We should (can't believe I'm going to say this) be looking at rugby to see how refs should be empowered to referee the game properly, give them proper tools like technology, like rules to punish players for badgering them all game etc which will have an immediate impact on the game but not kill the game dead.

[Danderhall Hibs]

You fail to mention that they are also striking because their integrity has been repeatedly questioned.
The emails etc are hardly a minor matter though are they? How would you like your employer contacted anonymously asking why they are employing somebody so obviously crooked and/or bigoted? One death threat is one too many. Being abused in the street in front of your family because of something that happened on a football pitch? That's crazy. These incidents become much more frequent when they are fuelled by those within the game scattering about innuendo and accusations without foundation. That's all been reported and discussed yet you still claim to know nothing about their motivation and dismiss their actions as some sort of childish attention seeking. I don't think for a moment referees think they are bigger than the game but one thing is for sure, without those willing to put themselves in the firing line we don't have a game.

I agree that all the emails, death threats, abuse in the streets and that are not on and the police should be looking into the death threats and the few folk doing the other stuff need to get a grip of themselves.

As for the integrity thing – they won’t get it back by standing on a picket line, they’ll need to get that back by refereeing games! Surely they understand that your integrity will be in question after you admit to telling a lie though? It’s a natural thing to do isn’t it?

[Part/Time Supporter]

Look at the number of posts on this thread blaming Celtic for the strike - yet the referees say they're striking because of death threats and emails, not because of Celtic.

Even Inspectors Clouseau and Gadget could work out who has been issuing death threats to Scottish referees lately, wound up by their club's player(s), manager and director(s).

[Hibee87]

heres my tuppence worth,

I support the refs decsion to stike for the ismple reason in no line of work should you get death threats.
we could go on all dya and night about bias refs dodgy decisions etc but at the end of the day imo the problems run alot deeper in the fact player managers and even directors are/have been alowed to get away with murder.

the whole fautl of this lies directly with the SPL/SFA hierarchy.

and people who are saying we should boycot the game if we support the strike why?
if you have a coal fire and the minors strike and you agree would you stop using coal?

when the tesco lorry drivers were striking last year did you stop shopping at tesco to show your support?

unless you are a grade1 sfa referee or paid by the sfa then you have no reason to not go to the football.

[scoopyboy]

I'm sorry, for a second there it sounded like you were making a direct comparison to the hardships (and deaths) endured by the miners to the hardship that a postponed game would cause for one of todays professional footballers.
I'm hopefully mistaken though.

I was in no way making a comparison (direct or otherwise) to the miners hardship and a game of football.

You stated you saw no real comparison between peoples livlihoods and a game of football.

I pointed out there is a direct correlation as although the refs are not full time their actions have affected people whose livlihoods are in football and I cited professional players as an example.

For the record although I have never had any personal connection with the pit I had three uncles and a few cousins from the Tranent area who were out from day one to the bitter end and I supported them 100%. There are probably a lot of younger posters who don't realise how terrible that period actually was and I hope never to witness such events again.

[Moulin Yarns]

we are now less than 24 hours until kick off, and there is still some uncertainty despite the SFA saying all SPL games are going ahead. IMHO the clubs should make the decision for the fans, if they do not know for certain the names of the officials in charge of their games by now they call the games off.

Maybe doesn't help the fans, but neither does the uncertainty. Just my thoughts, but the whole sorry episode needs to come to an end.

I propose

1. Demote the grade 1 refs and promote others, with a clause in their contract to allow them to speak openly about decisions.

2. Deduct points from any club who goes public with critisism of particular decisions or officials.

3. Have a monthly SFA/SPL/SFL decision making panel that can discuss in a mature fashion any controversial decision.

It'll never happen, but I'm glad to get that off my chest.

[basehibby]

The Polish refs have withdrawn - cue chaos! :grr:

They're not boycotting the snooker now as well are they :confused:

[legends of 73]

portugese refs for us

Cosme Machado
(POR)
Luís Ramos
(POR)
Inacio Pereira
(POR)

[marinello59]

I agree that all the emails, death threats, abuse in the streets and that are not on and the police should be looking into the death threats and the few folk doing the other stuff need to get a grip of themselves.

As for the integrity thing – they won’t get it back by standing on a picket line, they’ll need to get that back by refereeing games! Surely they understand that your integrity will be in question after you admit to telling a lie though? It’s a natural thing to do isn’t it?

As far as I know one referee (Macdonald) has been caught out telling a lie. (Which had nothing to do with how he conducted himself on the pitch) To use that as justification to question every refereeing decision now as biased or downright dishonest can't be right. There have been a few crooked lawyers /accountants/ bank managers in court over the years. Would we be fair in saying all members of those professions where therefore corrupt?

[PaulSmith]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPL/SPL/Round%2015(27-28%20NOV).pdf

Full list here. I see that they've pulled in a couple of Scottish 4th officials, they'll be popular!

Same ref for the Celtic and Rangers games, is that to ensure no bias. Very difficult to ask a ref to referee two SPL games in less than 48 hours, fitness and mentality difficult

[archiebald]

Why should we support them -when they are causing money problems for smaller clubs.Next we wont be able to boo them at a match or they will strike because they are getting abuse-if they dont want to do it resign simple and a younger ref will just step in,how do think Romanov whould feel having to pay Hearts players for doing nothing
All junior juvenile refs still doing there jobs sat sun not supporting there elders.All because nobody will stand up to CELTIC

[hibee_girl]

The ref we have -
In his nine games this season, he has dished out a total 57 yellow cards, as well as sending off four players.

[marinello59]

Why should we support them -when they are causing money problems for smaller clubs.Next we wont be able to boo them at a match or they will strike because they are getting abuse-if they dont want to do it resign simple and a younger ref will just step in,how do think Romanov whould feel having to pay Hearts players for doing nothing
All junior juvenile refs still doing there jobs sat sun not supporting there elders.All because nobody will stand up to CELTIC

That's just ridiculous. They expect abuse from fans, it goes with the territory and they put up with it.

[Hibs Class]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPL/SPL/Round%2015(27-28%20NOV).pdf

Full list here. I see that they've pulled in a couple of Scottish 4th officials, they'll be popular!

Same ref for the Celtic and Rangers games, is that to ensure no bias. Very difficult to ask a ref to referee two SPL games in less than 48 hours, fitness and mentality difficult

If it's because they couldn't find enough refs then it's reasonable. If it is to avoid accusations of bias then it would continue to paint the SFA/SPL in a bad light as it would just be continuing to pander to the conspiracy theorists

[Moulin Yarns]

full list

here (http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPL/SPL/Round%2015(27-28%20NOV).pdf)

I see our 4 officials are also at the Hertz game on the Sunday :greengrin

[archiebald]

That's just ridiculous. They expect abuse from fans, it goes with the territory and they put up with it.
As do juvenile refs 13s -21s when they abandon games for abuse

[marinello59]

As do juvenile refs 13s -21s when the abandon games for abuse

If an unpaid Ref is getting abuse during games at that age group there is something far wrong. In that case I wouldn't blame them for walking off.

[archiebald]

If an unpaid Ref is getting abuse during games at that age group there is something far wrong. In that case I wouldn't blame them for walking off.
Since when do refs not get paid for saturday & sunday matches-and in the summer monday-tuesday wednesday thursday saturday and twice on a sunday matches :agree:

[Sir David Gray]

I take it the fourth officials at the Celtic, Hamilton and Dundee Utd games (Stephen Allan, Stuart Macaulay and Andy Tait) are Scottish and are therefore scabs because they are not in solidarity with their striking comrades? :confused:

[marinello59]

Since when do refs not get paid for saturday & sunday matches-and in the summer monday-tuesday wednesday thursday saturday and twice on a sunday matches :agree:

Abuse for reffing a kids game? Is that right?

[archiebald]

Abuse for reffing a kids game? Is that right?
Try watching a 15s up to a 21s match one day you will see what I mean or an amatuer match on a sunday,do they still do it you bet they do, good money

[marinello59]

Try watching a 15s up to a 21s match one day you will see what I mean or an amatuer match on a sunday,do they still do it you bet they do, good money

So what is the point you are making then? Sorry, I might seem dense here but you really have lost me.

[archiebald]

If an unpaid Ref is getting abuse during games at that age group there is something far wrong. In that case I wouldn't blame them for walking off.
This may jolt your memory-no such thing as an unpaid ref

[marinello59]

This may jolt your memory-no such thing as an unpaid ref

OK.
So are you saying Refs at kids games should be subjected to abuse or not?

[CropleyWasGod]

This may jolt your memory-no such thing as an unpaid ref

Schools games refs don't get paid.

[archiebald]

OK.
So are you saying Refs at kids games should be subjected to abuse or not?
No but they do,ask Alan Archiebald who runs football in Edinburgh for the sfa

[Twa Cairpets]

Why should we support them -when they are causing money problems for smaller clubs.Next we wont be able to boo them at a match or they will strike because they are getting abuse-if they dont want to do it resign simple and a younger ref will just step in,how do think Romanov whould feel having to pay Hearts players for doing nothing
All junior juvenile refs still doing there jobs sat sun not supporting there elders.All because nobody will stand up to CELTIC

Another one who thinks that it is all just fine and dandy to abuse refs.

For the hard of thinking: Refs dont mid getting a bit of stick. Not a single ref out there expects anything else. You have to have a thick skin or you wont last, and no-one goes into it thinking theyre going to be pals with everyone.

At youth level, the significant majority of coaches and parents are good guys, supportive and do things the right way, but there are some real knuckle draggers out there too who shouldnt be within a mile of kids football.

What isnt acceptable is to have it (on a public park especially) become threatening or personal, which it can do. I've seen 16/17 year old refs cry after soccer sevens games because of the stick they got, and never come back. And you seem to think this is justified because they're doing a job? Seriously, the moneys a bonus, but if (for the vast majority of refs) we didnt actually enjoy it, and felt we were adding something to football because we love the sport do you really think we'd put up with the abuse for £32 a game?

[hibiedude]

I blame the SFA for this farce because this is an old firm issue and has been for years.

When the Old firm loose then someone is held accountable normally the Ref.

Celtic and Rangers think they are unbeatable and when it happens the opposition never get the credit so it has to be the refs fault hence the abuse.

Neil Lennon actions since becoming Celtics manager has been a disgrace and the SFA should have punished him long time ago and we wouldn’t find ourselves in this position.

Do I think things will change in the future……………not a hope in hell so I don’t understand what the Refs hope to gain apart from more abuse when things get back to normal

[archiebald]

Schools games refs don't get paid.
As you will notice I never mentioned school games-and they are mostly reft by a parent or the jani or teacher.

[marinello59]

No but they do,Alan Archiebald who runs football in Edinburgh for the sfa

So what is your point?

[CropleyWasGod]

As you will notice I never mentioned school games-and they are mostly reft by a parent or the jani or teacher.

You said "no such thing as an unpaid ref".

[Twa Cairpets]

No but they do,Alan Archiebald who runs football in Edinburgh for the sfa

You are not Alan Archibald.

[archiebald]

Another one who thinks that it is all just fine and dandy to abuse refs.

For the hard of thinking: Refs dont mid getting a bit of stick. Not a single ref out there expects anything else. You have to have a thick skin or you wont last, and no-one goes into it thinking theyre going to be pals with everyone.

At youth level, the significant majority of coaches and parents are good guys, supportive and do things the right way, but there are some real knuckle draggers out there too who shouldnt be within a mile of kids football.

What isnt acceptable is to have it (on a public park especially) become threatening or personal, which it can do. I've seen 16/17 year old refs cry after soccer sevens games because of the stick they got, and never come back. And you seem to think this is justified because they're doing a job? Seriously, the moneys a bonus, but if (for the vast majority of refs) we didnt actually enjoy it, and felt we were adding something to football because we love the sport do you really think we'd put up with the abuse for £32 a game?No I never said it was ok,but in public parks it does happen when a nutter turns up probably drunk-so who is brave enough to move him-you have got to call the police,which is correct

[PaulSmith]

Schools games refs don't get paid.

Yes they do.

[CropleyWasGod]

You are not Alan Archibald.

With 2 L's and no E :greengrin

[Jack]

portugese refs for us

Cosme Machado
(POR)
Luís Ramos
(POR)
Inacio Pereira
(POR)

Woah!

He’s got some record! :cool2:

This season
10 matches; 65 yellow cards and 6 double yellow to red – no straight reds.

3 matches in the top league and 4 in the second.

In his 6 season career
116 matches; 655 yellow cards and 40 double yellow to red – 7 straight reds. Only 7 penalties!

46 matches in the top league and 57 in the second.

Cup games made up the rest.

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes they do.

Really? it's been a while :greengrin

[PaulSmith]

No I never said it was ok,but in public parks it does happen when a nutter turns up probably drunk-so who is brave enough to move him-you have got to call the police,which is correct

I'm struggling with your posts Archiebald, I'm not sure what your actually meaning or trying to get across.

[archiebald]

With 2 L's and no E :greengrin
eh

[CropleyWasGod]

eh

The SYFA website has an Allan Archibald.

Either it's no you, or they canny spell your name, or you canny :greengrin

[archiebald]

you are not alan archibald.
correct

[archiebald]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;2647116]The SYFA website has an Allan Archibald.

Either it's no you, or they canny spell your name, or yo

[CMac1988]

Woah!

He’s got some record! :cool2:

This season
10 matches; 65 yellow cards and 6 double yellow to red – no straight reds.

3 matches in the top league and 4 in the second.

In his 6 season career
116 matches; 655 yellow cards and 40 double yellow to red – 7 straight reds. Only 7 penalties!

46 matches in the top league and 57 in the second.

Cup games made up the rest.

Holy S***! (Dono which smilie to use...)

So roughly that's an avergae of between 6 and 7 yellow's a game, but only 1 penalty in every 16 game's?

[marinello59]

You are not Alan Archibald.


With 2 L's and no E :greengrin


eh


The SYFA website has an Allan Archibald.

Either it's no you, or they canny spell your name, or you canny :greengrin


correct

:tee hee:

[greenginger]

I blame the SFA for this farce because this is an old firm issue and has been for years.

Do I think things will change in the future……………not a hope in hell so I don’t understand what the Refs hope to gain apart from more abuse when things get back to normal





They have got the power to make change happen.

First sign of decent -warning to the team captain to cut it out completely.

There after yellow cards then red cards for further decent . The message will get through.

Ever wonder why the Old Firm players don't mob round referees when a decision goes against them on Euro Football nights. They would be carded without hesitation.

They abuse our refs because they won't stand up to them. Its time they all grew a pair !

[archiebald]

:tee hee:
my your ugly :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

[Danderhall Hibs]

As far as I know one referee (Macdonald) has been caught out telling a lie. (Which had nothing to do with how he conducted himself on the pitch) To use that as justification to question every refereeing decision now as biased or downright dishonest can't be right. There have been a few crooked lawyers /accountants/ bank managers in court over the years. Would we be fair in saying all members of those professions where therefore corrupt?

Has anyone said they intend to question every refereeing decision now that a ref admitted lying?

I don't think it's fair to say they're all corrupt but it does happen - look at the stooshy with MP's expenses or Bankers being at it - not every MP and Bank Manager is crooked.

[Gettin' Auld]

Purtoguese Ref Rant = "Quem e o *******o no preto? "

I'm sure you can figure it out..........:greengrin

[DaveF]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPL/SPL/Round%2015(27-28%20NOV).pdf

Full list here. I see that they've pulled in a couple of Scottish 4th officials, they'll be popular!

Same ref for the Celtic and Rangers games, is that to ensure no bias. Very difficult to ask a ref to referee two SPL games in less than 48 hours, fitness and mentality difficult

How very, very spineless of the powers that be to do that.

Deary me, no wonder this country is a laughing stock when these jokers continue to pander to the OF.

[Danderhall Hibs]

How very, very spineless of the powers that be to do that.

Deary me, no wonder this country is a laughing stock when these jokers continue to pander to the OF.

Same refs for the Hearts and Hibs games as well.

[CropleyWasGod]

How very, very spineless of the powers that be to do that.

Deary me, no wonder this country is a laughing stock when these jokers continue to pander to the OF.

"The ref was clearly saving himself for the Rangers game" Lennon, N

"The ref was clearly ****ged out from the Celtic game" Smith, W.

[CropleyWasGod]

Same refs for the Hearts and Hibs games as well.

Same team, but they've changed round the ref and 4th official, no?

[marinello59]

Has anyone said they intend to question every refereeing decision now that a ref admitted lying?

I don't think it's fair to say they're all corrupt but it does happen - look at the stooshy with MP's expenses or Bankers being at it - not every MP and Bank Manager is crooked.

I do think Celtic have used the whole Dougie Macdonald thing as a smokescreen.

I think we almost agree on your second point.:greengrin

[DaveF]

Same refs for the Hearts and Hibs games as well.

Is it? In that case I remove chip from shoulder and assume they are just short of numbers :greengrin

[marinello59]

my your ugly :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

Sadly true and probably the only comment on here that everybody could agree on.:boo hoo:

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it? In that case I remove chip from shoulder and assume they are just short of numbers :greengrin

No... put the chip back on. :wink:

[BEEJ]

Why not? First one referee unsighted, second one linesman thinks a stiker touched the ball, third one "off the ball".

If these incidents had happened (as similar ones have) in games not involving the OF, then its called incompetence, if its the OF involved, it suddenly becomes bias or corruption.
Why not? Because the benefit of the doubt would invariably go to the OF team. We're not talking about one 'marginal' (potentially game-changing)l decision here, but three.

If the first did in fact go in favour of United, odds-on the rest would not in order to 'balance up the position'.

And to be honest the excuses you give are poor. If the referee is unsighted the linesman needs to step in and advise to correct him. Did the linesman's flag go up for the penalty? If the linesman is in fact unsighted at the deflected goal the referee isn't and he should over-rule the linesman's flag. An offside call is irrelevant if the ball has been deflected in off a defender.

Finally, if there's an off the ball incident, again the linesman should be alert to it - or even the fourth official.

I'm not citing conspiracy theories here or institutional bias. Simply that in the seconds that follow an apparently marginal decision, there is a pressure to decide in favour of the OF side. It's the path of least resistance.

Better officials manage to resist that pressure; unfortunately others don't.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is it? In that case I remove chip from shoulder and assume they are just short of numbers :greengrin

Sorry I was wrong - the 4th official at our game is the ref for the Hearts game and the ref in our game is the 4th official in the Hearts game.

Only on ref doing 2 games in 2 days - wonder why? Maybe something to do with the scab Scottish 4th officials not having the relevant qualifications?

[Danderhall Hibs]

I do think Celtic have used the whole Dougie Macdonald thing as a smokescreen.

I think we almost agree on your second point.:greengrin

I think they probably have - they've been at it for years. But the refs haven't mentioned Celtic as part of the reason for striking.

[hibee_girl]

STV news reporting that the 2 refs from Portugal arrived in Scotland and then went straight back to Portugal :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

STV news reporting that the 2 refs from Portugal arrived in Scotland and then went straight back to Portugal :confused:

Wouldn't you? :confused:

[PaulSmith]

Why not? Because the benefit of the doubt would invariably go to the OF team. We're not talking about one 'marginal' (potentially game-changing)l decision here, but three.

If the first did in fact go in favour of United, odds-on the rest would not in order to 'balance up the position'.

And to be honest the excuses you give are poor. If the referee is unsighted the linesman needs to step in and advise to correct him. Did the linesman's flag go up for the penalty? If the linesman is in fact unsighted at the deflected goal the referee isn't and he should over-rule the linesman's flag. An offside call is irrelevant if the ball has been deflected in off a defender.

Finally, if there's an off the ball incident, again the linesman should be alert to it - or even the fourth official.

I'm not citing conspiracy theories here or institutional bias. Simply that in the seconds that follow an apparently marginal decision, there is a pressure to decide in favour of the OF side. It's the path of least resistance.

Better officials manage to resist that pressure; unfortunately others don't.

The asst ref is a scab :wink:

[Www1875hfc]

STV news reporting that the 2 refs from Portugal arrived in Scotland and then went straight back to Portugal :confused:

Stated that these refs were scheduled to be at easter rd.:grr:

[Hibbie_Cameron]

This is a farce, our ref is away home.

Hopefully he just forgot his hat and gloves:rolleyes:

[hibee_girl]

Stated that these refs were scheduled to be at easter rd.:grr:

Not to worry, the SFA have yet another contingency plan in place :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

Not to worry, the SFA have yet another contingency plan in place :rolleyes:

Calderwood doing the first half, then? :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

The asst ref is a scab :wink:

Shows you how dishonest the lot of them are, can't even trust each other. :greengrin

[Hibby D]

Calderwood doing the first half, then? :rolleyes:

Jimmy??? :shocked:

[CropleyWasGod]

Jimmy??? :shocked:

:rolleyes:

[Hibbie_Cameron]

Does anyone have Jimmy Hill's phone number?:wink:

[down-the-slope]

Same ref doing both Rangers & Celtic matches......

Is there no end to the pandering to these clubs :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Same ref doing both Rangers & Celtic matches......

Is there no end to the pandering to these clubs :rolleyes:

Same ref for Hibs and Hearts - must be about logistics.

[Mikey]

SSN reporting that the Portugese refs have returned home.

That affects us and Motherwell v Hearts.

[Hibby D]

:rolleyes:


You'll get RSI in those eyes of yours :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

You'll get RSI in those eyes of yours :greengrin

You say the nicest things :wink:

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

SSN reporting that the Portugese refs have returned home.

That affects us and Motherwell v Hearts.

Maybe it's too cauld for them,

[marinello59]

SSN reporting that the Portugese refs have returned home.

That affects us and Motherwell v Hearts.

Unbelievable farce.

[Saorsa]

SSN reporting that the Portugese refs have returned home.

That affects us and Motherwell v Hearts.:bitchy:

[Mikey]

It'll be bedlam tomorrow if one of the ref's bails out just before kick off.

[DaveF]

Sorry I was wrong - the 4th official at our game is the ref for the Hearts game and the ref in our game is the 4th official in the Hearts game.

Chip duly back in place :greengrin

All we need now is a referee......

[BoltonHibee]

Unbelievable farce.

Yip, if true we should be looking to change our service providers (we being the SPL).

[CropleyWasGod]

Same ref for Hibs and Hearts - must be about logistics.

It's not. Same team, but they have switched the ref and 4th official.

[marinello59]

Yip, if true we should be looking to change our service providers (we being the SPL).

Just merge the SFA and the SPL.

I really worry that we have a game called off with fans in the ground tomorrow.

[Dalkeith]

Same ref for Hibs and Hearts - must be about logistics.

not now as ref is away home, seems the refs coming in are getting true story and are backing off.

Heads must roll at the top of spl/sfa

[DaveF]

If they have returned home I guess that our game will be off.

Did the SFA \ SPL have the foresight to pay for backup referee's in case something like this occurred?

[Westie1875]

So our replacement ref has gone home, meanwhile the instigators of this problem could get their game going ahead as scheduled, utterly ridiculous - if any spl game needs to be off tomorrow then it should be Celtc's, give us their ref and leave them without. :bitchy:

[hibee_girl]

If they have returned home I guess that our game will be off.

Did the SFA \ SPL have the foresight to pay for backup referee's in case something like this occurred?

They said on the STV news that the SFA had a contingency plan, didn't say what it was though :dunno:

[BoltonHibee]

If they have returned home I guess that our game will be off.

Did the SFA \ SPL have the foresight to pay for backup referee's in case something like this occurred?

Its down to the SFA

[CropleyWasGod]

They said on the STV news that the SFA had a contingency plan, didn't say what it was though :dunno:

What you up to tomorrow, say between 3 and 5? :wink:

[BoltonHibee]

Just merge the SFA and the SPL.

I really worry that we have a game called off with fans in the ground tomorrow.

Or piss the SFA off all together and take the contract in house?

[GreenCastle]

This gets better :wtf:

So we have no ref for tomorrow for a professional game ?

The Scottish game is a total joke - laughing stock around the world right now :grr:

[DaveF]

So our replacement ref has gone home, meanwhile the instigators of this problem could get their game going ahead as scheduled, utterly ridiculous - if any spl game needs to be off tomorrow then it should be Celtc's, give us their ref and leave them without. :bitchy:

Spot on.

I wish the ref's would come out and just name Celtc as the boil that needs lancing.

[BroxburnHibee]

Absolutely pathetic - I feel really sorry for the fans who are travelling from far away and no idea whether there will be a game or not.

Me? I'll need to put up with the faither-in-law if it doesn't go ahead.

No happy :grr: