scots clubs facing reality

[monktonharp]

just been on tonight's news about D.Utd chairman saying they must make serious wage reductions etc. this after reports about Aberdeen looking to reduce players wages if they want to stay on. Zander Diamond,and a couple of others nearing the end of contracts,and top end earners ,have alledgedly been told that they will have to accept less or they're offski.our football is in serious decline at this moment when clubs of this stature have to act so prudently.

[Dalianwanda]

Hard not to feel a bit smug when we have done our clipping early...Still I suppose the demise of others affects us all...

[Leithenhibby]

As it has been said on many threads previous it's going to get worse before it gets any better.

Just have to look down south at Sheffield Wednesday as they have been given 28 days by a High Court judge to find new owners and pay off an unpaid tax bill.

I'm not going to start to speculate but, perhaps it's a tad closer to home than we thought :wink:

Attendances will fall, are falling, and with christmas around the corner!! :rolleyes:

[monktonharp]

Hard not to feel a bit smug when we have done our clipping early...Still I suppose the demise of others affects us all...:agree:suppose you are right. always remember hearing from a close family member of Scott Severin a few years ago that he went to the Dons because they offered £1K a week,whereas HFC wanted him to sign for £750-800 a week. Ithought at the time,how the f/ck can we not beat that! looks like the rooster's came home to roost.:cool2:

[SouthamptonHibs]

Don't feel sorry for any team that's in debt and living beyond there means...Hibs are a leader in how to run a football club! we've had to suffer the selling of our best players and missing out on better players etc for years to allow us to build our stadium, training ground and pay off our debts.

If united go bust i won't miss them, they mght just pay the penalty for finshing 3rd and winning the scottish cup last year wi players they can't afford....with there crappy wee 6K every other week crowds. I new they could'nt pay better than us, they've been funded by a suger daddy for a long time.
Dundee and Dundee united should share the same ground, both are in trouble, it would make perfect sense as there both in the same street. Can't see there being any grants from the council to help build a new stadium if there forced down this route as Britain is skint....

Down this end of the world both Pompey and Saints have suffered, Saints are back on the up with most of there debts now sorted but had to drop 2 divisions in the process and pompey are doing decent after there poor start, i think pompey will battle it out in the championship for a few years to come as they've got to pay £20 odd million back to there creditors.

Hail Hail

[monktonharp]

Don't feel sorry for any team that's in debt and living beyond there means...Hibs are a leader in how to run a football club! we've had to suffer the selling of our best players and missing out on better players etc for years to allow us to build our stadium, training ground and pay off our debts.

If united go bust i won't miss them, they mght just pay the penalty for finshing 3rd and winning the scottish cup last year wi players they can't afford....with there crappy wee 6K every other week crowds. I new they could'nt pay better than us, they've been funded by a suger daddy for a long time.
Dundee and Dundee united should share the same ground, both are in trouble, it would make perfect sense as there both in the same street. Can't see there being any grants from the council to help build a new stadium if there forced down this route as Britain is skint....

Down this end of the world both Pompey and Saints have suffered, Saints are back on the up with most of there debts now sorted but had to drop 2 divisions in the process and pompey are doing decent after there poor start, i think pompey will battle it out in the championship for a few years to come as they've got to pay £20 odd million back to there creditors.

Hail Hailat the risk of being smug, ..........there and their , are two different words, sound the same but when written down, mean totally different things:wink:

[Toaods]

Exactly n tough **** to the overspenders - it's when clubs like us can reap the benefits.

[monktonharp]

Exactly n tough **** to the overspenders - it's when clubs like us can reap the benefits.yup, tough kaki indeed,when they've overspent big style. Especially D.utd,but they did virtually the same as the Gorgie mob,overpaid their squad to win a Scottish cup:rolleyes: and yet...........lots on here feel that we should have done much the same over the years.:wink:

[matty_f]

I'm really surprised at the comments from Utd, because they have clearly speculated to accumulate, not to the extent of Hearts or Leeds Utd, or any of the other extreme examples, but still spent more than they knew they could afford.

I've read on here hundreds of times that we should be doing that.:confused:

Surprised to see it's not worked out for them. :rolleyes:

[monktonharp]

I've not really studied their comments,only heard news snippets that the ex-chairman's son has said enough is enough or words to that effect.would be fine to have some gadge prepared to shell out a few mil,get us a cup,before the reigns are pulled in:wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Scottish Cup would be nice though, before our footy is flushed doon the pan! The future generally aint bright!

[oregonhibby]

i suppose that when your family fortune is being eroded by a bottomless pit that is a football team you might think it is time to be able to leave something to the children.

In the last 15 years the world has changed around football. The banks have started to treat football clubs like businesses and charge them an arm and a leg for working capital, agents move players to generate fees from clubs, the Inland Revenue actually want the PAYE and are looking more closely at the way clubs pay players, TV will only pay for a product that someone actually wants to watch and not just the supporters of the clubs on screen. Importantly, supporters don't want to pay more at the ticket office than they think is fair value, which seems to be roughly half of what it actually takes to run a club to break even let alone profit. Sponsors all have less money to spend.

Vicious cycle.

We can't be smug. If the product generally deteriorates then we will be impacted and the cost of running the fabulous facilities we have will result in less money available for players etc etc. STF will continue to support the Club but he will do so within the framework of it being run like a business. If nothing else changes prices will have to go up.

[PeeKay]

I've not really studied their comments,only heard news snippets that the ex-chairman's son has said enough is enough or words to that effect.would be fine to have some gadge prepared to shell out a few mil,get us a cup,before the reigns are pulled in:wink:

At the risk of being smug.................."reigns" :confused:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What goes up must come down
If the banks can go through a correction so can football clubs
Apart from perhaps the mega clubs who could be seen as owning a high maintenance costing Picasso others will go to the wall/pain
Pandoras bottle was smashed and rightly so football clubs are treated like the businesses they are Orr should be
But business have regulators to help ensure competitiveness and protect consumers more so than other industries football has been badly let down on this front as I've banged on about since I can remember
Sustainability should a top if not the top priority for football - that's been lost in the haze of the pied piper Mr Murdoch and now clubs with clubs so heavily reliant on him how can it not be that they dance to his tune? OF to play in England? Big clubs to break away for Euro league?

[GordonHFC]

All clubs were warned years ago that this was the only way to operate and some, like us, chose to follow that path and some chose to ignore it. Hell mend them as it is now going to come back and bite them on the archie !!

[BSEJVT]

At the risk of wanting to burst anyone's bubble.......

We are also historically spending £2m more pa than we have been earning.

Player sales have wiped this out in past seasons but who else is left to sell?

We will also have to cut our cloth or increase turnover, but there is a rally narrow window to succesfully achieve the latter.

The only consolation I can offer is that our cloth cutting may be less extreme than some others.

[Beefster]

I'm really surprised at the comments from Utd, because they have clearly speculated to accumulate, not to the extent of Hearts or Leeds Utd, or any of the other extreme examples, but still spent more than they knew they could afford.

I've read on here hundreds of times that we should be doing that.:confused:

Surprised to see it's not worked out for them. :rolleyes:

I suppose it depends on whether you think that winning the Scottish Cup is worth a couple of season of higher than normal budget cuts.

[blackpoolhibs]

As has been said, we are losing money too but have been cutting our cloth. We are in a very good position i feel with so many players out of contract this summer. Even if the manager wants to keep a couple of them, unless they move to England, they will find our offer will be the best offer on the table, even if its lower than they currently are getting?

And imho our squad is too heavy in terms of average players, and hope those 16 out of contract players are replaced with 6-7 better more expencive ones, who hopefully will improve us. Its down to the manager now, if he can bring in quality we will succeed. Previous managers have brought in far too much dross, too many players from the bargain bucket. Maybe now, we have the opportunity to bring in some players from a different bucket?

And with the others cutting back, surely now we have our best chance of doing well, and pushing on.

[Stevie Reid]

This all certainly flies in the face of the many on here who believe that spending more on the playing squad and gaining a bit of success will guarantee increased crowds.

Whilst I'm sure he wouldn't change winning the cup for anything, Thompson must be thoroughly depressed at how little the city has responded to the win.

[Crazyhorse]

I suppose it depends on whether you think that winning the Scottish Cup is worth a couple of season of higher than normal budget cuts.

This is the dilemma in a nutshell. Personally speaking I might just opt for the Scottish Cup and then be prepared to put up with a couple of seasons of struggle like DUFC. The best way to describe Hibs has been mediocre through all my years of supporting them and of course some years of complete dross. I would have been prepared to put up with much more complete dross if there had been higher peaks - especially the Scottish Cup. After all I'm not going to stop supporting them if they are totally crap, if that had been the case I would have given up along time ago.

[Part/Time Supporter]

That's a fair enough point of view if the increased spending guaranteed the cup win, but it doesn't. United were spending less on players last year than the Old Firm, Hearts or Hibs.

[matty_f]

I suppose it depends on whether you think that winning the Scottish Cup is worth a couple of season of higher than normal budget cuts.

We won a cup as well, though and we're at the point of coming out of the painful process that Utd and the other clubs are just about to get into.

It puts us in a great position, and gives us more chance (in theory) of winning the cup and managing to win it again afterwards because we've not put ourselves in trouble.

Not saying you've done it, but I wish folk wouldn't dismiss the cup we did win because of the pish that the Yams spout about big cups etc.

[blackpoolhibs]

We won a cup as well, though and we're at the point of coming out of the painful process that Utd and the other clubs are just about to get into.

It puts us in a great position, and gives us more chance (in theory) of winning the cup and managing to win it again afterwards because we've not put ourselves in trouble.

Not saying you've done it, but I wish folk wouldn't dismiss the cup we did win because of the pish that the Yams spout about big cups etc.

:agree: The patience we have all been fed up having, might just about to be paying off. If we cant push on now, and have the club fighting at the right end of the league, well we may all just give up and go watch cricket. Everything is in place. The club are in decent condition, far better than most. It has to happen soon.:pray:

[Twa Cairpets]

Regarding players wages, here's a thought.

If Scotland has a pool of 40 senior clubs, plus say ten junior clubs with a bit of cash, and each carries a squad of 22 players, then there will be 1,100 adults employed either full or part time playing football.

Ignoring the very top end (maybe 40 or 50 individuals at most), earning £500+ per week isn't too bad a wedge for a young man in particular.

The fiscal balancing of wages is going to mean they are dramatically reduced, but in reality it means that players like Deek (reportedly on £4k a week) taking a cut. Its still well over £100k pa, or to take the Severin example, his income dropping from £52k pa to around £40k. Still not a bad career path, and one where the reduced wages will not reduce the number wanting to chase the dream, so we'll still see the same players playing for the same clubs, just earning a bit less.

[Stevie Reid]

We won a cup as well, though and we're at the point of coming out of the painful process that Utd and the other clubs are just about to get into.

It puts us in a great position, and gives us more chance (in theory) of winning the cup and managing to win it again afterwards because we've not put ourselves in trouble.

Not saying you've done it, but I wish folk wouldn't dismiss the cup we did win because of the pish that the Yams spout about big cups etc.

Big time, Matty. I've seen my team win 2 trophies in my lifetime in front of upwards of 40,000 Hibbies at Hampden, and no one will convince me that a different piece of silverware being held aloft at the end of it could've made the occasions feel any better.

The League Cup matters to everyone: - the OF need to win it, either to complete the treble or to try and ensure that they win more of the 3 trophies available than the other one (or to salvage a bit of pride and avoid a trophyless season). For everyone else, the LC represents 50% of the prizes that are realistically available to them in a season.

Even the Yams would maybe allow themselves a wee celebration if they won it :rolleyes:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I think that the Dundee Utd chairman is using the the papers to try and put decent spin on how he sees the next few seasons panning out. The money that his family put in will come to an end and the fans will need to swallow watching their higher profile players leaving to balance the books. Goodwillie will be away first, probably to RFC if their new backer comes in. Then they will face bids for Swanson, Kenneth and Conway. Sounds kinda familiar?

[Wilson]

I suppose it depends on whether you think that winning the Scottish Cup is worth a couple of season of higher than normal budget cuts.

It isn't.

Lets win it within our means and dispense with the yo-yo budget.

It is achievable with the right players, the right coaching, and a favourable cup draw.

Throwing money we don't have at the challenge wont guarantee silverware in any case. It is an unsustainable, short-term option and no way to run a modern football club.

[--------]

We won a cup as well, though and we're at the point of coming out of the painful process that Utd and the other clubs are just about to get into.

It puts us in a great position, and gives us more chance (in theory) of winning the cup and managing to win it again afterwards because we've not put ourselves in trouble.

Not saying you've done it, but I wish folk wouldn't dismiss the cup we did win because of the pish that the Yams spout about big cups etc.


:agree:

There's another point to consider, too. If (as is entirely possible) the SPL were to go down the pan, those clubs which ARE financially viable would need to find somewhere else to play. That means either setting up a new League - which in turn raises the question of who else makes up that League - or applying to join an existing one.

How many SPL clubs are there with a completely re-built stadium, their own up-to-date training facility, and a set of account books preponderantly written in BLACK ink? Oh yes - and an owner and board who possess a fair degree of respectability in the business world, as well.

(Unlike some we could mention. :devil: )

As of right now, Hibs have the infrastructure and potential to step into the Football League (if accepted) without a ripple.

Is that true of Aberdeen? Dundee United? Hearts? Motherwell? :cool2:

[Franck is God]

I don't have any sympathy either for sides that are struggling financially that have spent the last few years overspending.

We did this on our return from the first division and if were not for some good financial management, good youth product and a bit of luck we would be completely donald ducked right now.

Fortunately we have come out the other side stronger for it so hopefully if we now have the right person in charge and he is given time by the board AND the fans to get it right on the pitch as well as the board room then we have a better chance of success.

[IWasThere2016]

:agree:suppose you are right. always remember hearing from a close family member of Scott Severin a few years ago that he went to the Dons because they offered £1K a week,whereas HFC wanted him to sign for £750-800 a week. Ithought at the time,how the f/ck can we not beat that! looks like the rooster's came home to roost.:cool2:

I'm afraid that's keech


yup, tough kaki indeed,when they've overspent big style. Especially D.utd,but they did virtually the same as the Gorgie mob,overpaid their squad to win a Scottish cup:rolleyes: and yet...........lots on here feel that we should have done much the same over the years.:wink:

Not one player at DUFC earns > £2k per week .. its more to do with no more Thompson family cash inwards, a debt to service and poor attendances. Not wages.


At the risk of wanting to burst anyone's bubble.......

We are also historically spending £2m more pa than we have been earning.

Player sales have wiped this out in past seasons but who else is left to sell?

We will also have to cut our cloth or increase turnover, but there is a really narrow window to succesfully achieve the latter.

The only consolation I can offer is that our cloth cutting may be less extreme than some others.

:agree:


I think that the Dundee Utd chairman is using the the papers to try and put decent spin on how he sees the next few seasons panning out. The money that his family put in will come to an end and the fans will need to swallow watching their higher profile players leaving to balance the books. Goodwillie will be away first, probably to RFC if their new backer comes in. Then they will face bids for Swanson, Kenneth and Conway. Sounds kinda familiar?

His last input was a 'soft' loan - namely he wants it back. They will sell in January IMHO.

[Peevemor]

Not one player at DUFC earns > £2k per week .. its more to do with no more Thompson family cash inwards, a debt to service and poor attendances. Not wages.

But surely it's everything to do with wages. Even if they're paying "low" wages, it's still more than they can afford - and it has been for some time.

[Woody1985]

This is great news for us IMO.

This is part of the benefit of financial prudence. We'll now be able to compete for the top players (outside the OF and Hearts) AND pay them within our wage structure/budget.

If most of the players who moved for money are offered the same terms with us than they are with say Aberdeen, I'd be willing to bet they'll come to us.

The only issue we'll have is that we'll probably be competing against Championship and League 1 clubs now for players and will probably lose out.

[Green_one]

But surely it's everything to do with wages. Even if they're paying "low" wages, it's still more than they can afford - and it has been for some time.

:agree:Wages remain almost all clubs biggest outgoing, so they are key to any budget position. Even Hearts find that maintaining debt is less than paying players (the source of most of their debt).

Hopefully we can maintain our pay levels and perhaps be front of the queue for some of those moving.

[francobaresi]

Don't feel sorry for any team that's in debt and living beyond there means...Hibs are a leader in how to run a football club! we've had to suffer the selling of our best players and missing out on better players etc for years to allow us to build our stadium, training ground and pay off our debts.

Hail Hail

Excellent point...
And we as fans have suffered for it, hopefully good times are around the corner... But I've said that for 30+ years:greengrin

[Beefster]

We won a cup as well, though and we're at the point of coming out of the painful process that Utd and the other clubs are just about to get into.

It puts us in a great position, and gives us more chance (in theory) of winning the cup and managing to win it again afterwards because we've not put ourselves in trouble.

Not saying you've done it, but I wish folk wouldn't dismiss the cup we did win because of the pish that the Yams spout about big cups etc.


It isn't.

Lets win it within our means and dispense with the yo-yo budget.

It is achievable with the right players, the right coaching, and a favourable cup draw.

Throwing money we don't have at the challenge wont guarantee silverware in any case. It is an unsustainable, short-term option and no way to run a modern football club.

I didn't make my point very well.

Hibs are trading at a loss if you take away player sales and have been for most years as far back as I can remember. On the assumption that the sales have dried up with the departure of Stokes (at least until we see how Hanlon and Wotherspoon develop in a few years time), Hibs are going to have to make cuts too. A lot of supporters seem to be under the misapprehension that our finances are in order. While we may be in a better state than most debt-wise, we're still paying out more than we take in every year. It's unsustainable.

If we're going to have to cut the budget anyway, I'd trade a season or two of bigger cuts in order to guarantee a SC win. Obviously, this is cloud cuckoo land.

The main difference between us and United though is that we've sold £20m worth of talent in the last decade whereas United have sold nowhere near that.

[Andy74]

I didn't make my point very well.

Hibs are trading at a loss if you take away player sales and have been for most years as far back as I can remember. On the assumption that the sales have dried up with the departure of Stokes (at least until we see how Hanlon and Wotherspoon develop in a few years time), Hibs are going to have to make cuts too. A lot of supporters seem to be under the misapprehension that our finances are in order. While we may be in a better state than most debt-wise, we're still paying out more than we take in every year. It's unsustainable.

If we're going to have to cut the budget anyway, I'd trade a season or two of bigger cuts in order to guarantee a SC win. Obviously, this is cloud cuckoo land.

The main difference between us and United though is that we've sold £20m worth of talent in the last decade whereas United have sold nowhere near that.

You can either make cuts or you can grow income. Hibs have said they are commited to growing income and are not looking to cut the wage budget.

You can of course also make operational cuts that don't mean lowering the wage budget.

The other main difference between us and Utd is crowds - we are averaging over 12,000 - they get nowhere near that. Utd have also sold key players but due to them needing the cash they've not been able to get top dolar for any of them.

[ancienthibby]

You can either make cuts or you can grow income. Hibs have said they are commited to growing income and are not looking to cut the wage budget.

You can of course also make operational cuts that don't mean lowering the wage budget.


I agree with Beefster and have posted before that the Annual Report makes it very clear, from the published financial data, that Hibs needs a sizeable injection of new cash to stay funded through to July, or January if there is a bonanza to be found there.:greengrin

That injection of cash via an overdraft or loan, or a very good SC cup run, is required at least, or, a substantial uplift in attendance figures!

[matty_f]

You can either make cuts or you can grow income. Hibs have said they are commited to growing income and are not looking to cut the wage budget.

You can of course also make operational cuts that don't mean lowering the wage budget.

The other main difference between us and Utd is crowds - we are averaging over 12,000 - they get nowhere near that. Utd have also sold key players but due to them needing the cash they've not been able to get top dolar for any of them.

I think this is key, commercially we are a much better proposition than United, and I don't think the club think that we are bringing in as much revenue as we could be.

The other thing that is worthy of note is that because of the position we are in financially, any cuts that we do need to make will be nowhere near the levels of our competitors.

[Kaiser1962]

I suppose it depends on whether you think that winning the Scottish Cup is worth a couple of season of higher than normal budget cuts.

Thats fair enough but there's no guarantee spending money would win the ****ing thing. The Famous Five couldnt do it and neither could Ned's Tornadoes so I dont expect paying double wages for a season or two would get it either.

[aberhibsfc]

I'd like to think we'd be one of the clubs that didn't have to make any budget reductions.

This is where our frugal approach should be seen to pay dividends. Unlike Dufc we haven't been paying the bigger salaries.

Maybe the fact that our nearest rivals are rebalancing their accounts will allow Hibs the opportunity to rise to the top.

Here's hoping anyway.

[erin go bragh]

just been on tonight's news about D.Utd chairman saying they must make serious wage reductions etc. this after reports about Aberdeen looking to reduce players wages if they want to stay on. Zander Diamond,and a couple of others nearing the end of contracts,and top end earners ,have alledgedly been told that they will have to accept less or they're offski.our football is in serious decline at this moment when clubs of this stature have to act so prudently.
did they not kb a 650 thousand bid 4 daly fi the wee ginger 1 at bora .

[Andy74]

I'd like to think we'd be one of the clubs that didn't have to make any budget reductions.

This is where our frugal approach should be seen to pay dividends. Unlike Dufc we haven't been paying the bigger salaries.

Maybe the fact that our nearest rivals are rebalancing their accounts will allow Hibs the opportunity to rise to the top.

Here's hoping anyway.

That's the theory and the Board can only create the right conditions in terms of facilities and budget.

Unfortunately football is played on a pitch and nothing can be guaranteed. Hearts for example have been paying double what the likes of us and Utd have been paying and it's not that clear what it's given them.

Motherwell, Inverness etc seem to show all the time that spending probably half what we do doesn't seem to be a particular hinderence to them.

What it should do is provide us with consistently more chances to have better players and therefore a better team but even if other clubs around us readjust further we can't be sure it will change much.

[shagpile]

Don't feel sorry for any team that's in debt and living beyond there means...Hibs are a leader in how to run a football club! we've had to suffer the selling of our best players and missing out on better players etc for years to allow us to build our stadium, training ground and pay off our debts.

If united go bust i won't miss them, they mght just pay the penalty for finshing 3rd and winning the scottish cup last year wi players they can't afford....with there crappy wee 6K every other week crowds. I new they could'nt pay better than us, they've been funded by a suger daddy for a long time.
Dundee and Dundee united should share the same ground, both are in trouble, it would make perfect sense as there both in the same street. Can't see there being any grants from the council to help build a new stadium if there forced down this route as Britain is skint....

Down this end of the world both Pompey and Saints have suffered, Saints are back on the up with most of there debts now sorted but had to drop 2 divisions in the process and pompey are doing decent after there poor start, i think pompey will battle it out in the championship for a few years to come as they've got to pay £20 odd million back to there creditors.

Hail Hail


at the risk of being smug, ..........there and their , are two different words, sound the same but when written down, mean totally different things:wink:

So does they're.:rolleyes:

Which you missed.:bitchy:


You're right SH they really do need to look at groundsharing as a way forward. It makes economic sense for two clubs in dire financial straits.:agree:

[IWasThere2016]

The £650k bid was for Conway - it was c£250k and a series of add-ons (none of which were guaranteed). Arabs told Boro to bolt - understandably given the offer terms.

[monktonharp]

The £650k bid was for Conway - it was c£250k and a series of add-ons (none of which were guaranteed). Arabs told Boro to bolt - understandably given the offer terms. so you were afraid my statement was keech eh? listen bud, I stated that the info I was given was from a close family member of the player..............not info fae ma wife! so let's hear about your more interesting info.:yawn:

[GloryGlory]

I'd like to think we'd be one of the clubs that didn't have to make any budget reductions. This is where our frugal approach should be seen to pay dividends. Unlike Dufc we haven't been paying the bigger salaries.

Maybe the fact that our nearest rivals are rebalancing their accounts will allow Hibs the opportunity to rise to the top.

Here's hoping anyway.

The Board have already announced that we need to cut our wages to turnover ratio. If we can't increase our level of sustainable income, and it's looking very difficult at the moment, then the wages budget will be cut.

[Matty_Jack04]

I read this morning that conway bauben gomis cadamarteri where out of contract end of the year, do you think we could afford to pinch any of them? I think conway and gomis will be in demand for no fee, and i dnt think cadamarteri would offer us anything but i def think bauben would be a good signing for us or anyone else in the league

[IWasThere2016]

so you were afraid my statement was keech eh? listen bud, I stated that the info I was given was from a close family member of the player..............not info fae ma wife! so let's hear about your more interesting info.:yawn:

Sorry - Seve for £1k or less a week is nonsense.

[truehibernian]

The £650k bid was for Conway - it was c£250k and a series of add-ons (none of which were guaranteed). Arabs told Boro to bolt - understandably given the offer terms.

Very true TQM, however Stephen Thompson then went on record on the night of transfer window saying that he was disappointed that Boro had not firmed up on the original offer or improved on it. I think he said something along the lines of "it's usual for clubs interested in a player to wait until the final moments of the window closing, however on this occasion Middlesborough didn't do what we all anticipated".

In other words, he played a bit of brinkmanship and lost because Boro told them to bolt. I think Utd had banked on that money coming in, regardless of it being in three payments. Same with Goodwillie. I think they were waiting on Rangers making a bid which never materialised. His off field antics have taken a fair bit of value of a very promising player IMHO.

I see that Morgaro Gomis has stated he is wanting to leave in summer. Him and Danny Swanson would be ideal at Hibs, but for me Danny is an even better long term prospect than Goodwillie. He is a superb talent and a good work ethic/temperament.

I am convinced that if Boro had really wanted Craig Conway they would have only increased the offer marginally and that Dundee Utd would have snapped their hand off at the eleventh hour.

[Cocaine&Caviar]

Theyre major assets are without a doubt Kenneth, Goodwillie, Conway, Dixon and Gomis, the likes of Bauben, Daly, Swanson, Pernis are good players but wouldnt recieve anywhere near the transfer fees. If the contracts are running out as previously mentioned they might be forced to sell in January, for a small fee, to the OF or down South.

[IWasThere2016]

Very true TQM, however Stephen Thompson then went on record on the night of transfer window saying that he was disappointed that Boro had not firmed up on the original offer or improved on it. I think he said something along the lines of "it's usual for clubs interested in a player to wait until the final moments of the window closing, however on this occasion Middlesborough didn't do what we all anticipated".

In other words, he played a bit of brinkmanship and lost because Boro told them to bolt. I think Utd had banked on that money coming in, regardless of it being in three payments. Same with Goodwillie. I think they were waiting on Rangers making a bid which never materialised. His off field antics have taken a fair bit of value of a very promising player IMHO.

I see that Morgaro Gomis has stated he is wanting to leave in summer. Him and Danny Swanson would be ideal at Hibs, but for me Danny is an even better long term prospect than Goodwillie. He is a superb talent and a good work ethic/temperament.

I am convinced that if Boro had really wanted Craig Conway they would have only increased the offer marginally and that Dundee Utd would have snapped their hand off at the eleventh hour.

I do not disagree with any of that.

Huns will go for Goodie in January IMO - especially if they have Whyte's new investment.

[BryanV]

I do not disagree with any of that.

Huns will go for Goodie in January IMO - especially if they have Whyte's new investment.

Whyte's new investment..........
They'll be waiting a long time then.