Scottish Budget

[ancienthibby]

Watched some of today's proceedings on TV.

Dearie me, Bendy Wendy has aged 10 years in 10 months!

Is that due to having to listen to Andy Kerr every day??:greengrin

[steakbake]

I think its a bit of a fiasco. Why a budget just for a year? Has Swinney no confidence that he'll still be in the hot seat in June and beyond or was he ducking having to make truly unpopular decisions?

Free prescriptions? Sorry, but that's insane. So a person on 70k a year doesn't have to pay a minor prescription charge in the same way as someone on the brew doesn't? It just doesn't seem right.

Council tax freeze: another year but I'm fearing that once the freeze has ended we'll get three years of backdated increases in the one year.

Either way, the accusation that this budget is more about the political interests of the SNP and less about handling the economic situation does seem not too far from the truth.

What a let down.

[One Day Soon]

Watched some of today's proceedings on TV.

Dearie me, Bendy Wendy has aged 10 years in 10 months!

Is that due to having to listen to Andy Kerr every day??:greengrin


Blinding.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Is there any point setting a budget longer than a year if the next government are just going to change it anyway, and that includes the snp if they got in next time with a clear majority???

[--------]

Is there any point setting a budget longer than a year if the next government are just going to change it anyway, and that includes the snp if they got in next time with a clear majority???


Bearing in mind also that the Holyrood government are at the mercy of Westminster and whatever they decide to allocate?

As they have been since elected, regardless of which kind of Tory was in Number Ten?

[IWasThere2016]

I think its a bit of a fiasco. Why a budget just for a year? Has Swinney no confidence that he'll still be in the hot seat in June and beyond or was he ducking having to make truly unpopular decisions?

Free prescriptions? Sorry, but that's insane. So a person on 70k a year doesn't have to pay a minor prescription charge in the same way as someone on the brew doesn't? It just doesn't seem right.

Council tax freeze: another year but I'm fearing that once the freeze has ended we'll get three years of backdated increases in the one year.

Either way, the accusation that this budget is more about the political interests of the SNP and less about handling the economic situation does seem not too far from the truth.

What a let down.

:agree: I vote SNP but that is weak government in any logical and balanced view IMHO

[Bad Martini]

:agree: I vote SNP but that is weak government in any logical and balanced view IMHO

Agreed. They also dodged the whole referendum "issue" for fear of not getting the vote. Should have struck whilst the iron was hot.

I voted SNP cause I agree with their doctrines. NOT, because I like that fat wee yam turd in charge nor because I like listening to the nasal whiny tone of excuseathon Sturgeon.

Bottom line; the SNP are both playing liberties with the voters who put them there AND at the mercy of the London chiefs who "give" Scotland some cash.

If there was ever a reason and need for Scottish Independence, it's control of our own budgets. Again ask thee self ; why would (particularly when one/all is "rookit") someone want to maintain a union where one partner is sucking the other dry financially. Clearly, they wouldn't..............so WHY are we still in the union? Is it for the Torries love of Scotland (Google Thatcher, Poll Tax, etc) ... or the Labour love of Scotland, the Lib Dem "do **** all of note" to help anyone....nope, we're still part of the UK due to the fact we PAY well. For now anyway.

When there's nae oil and if by some miracle our tourisim industry dries up and our financial services implode, you'll see wee Davey Cameron up here ripping up the Act of Union and waving his butchers apron as far as the eye can see.

ENDOF

[7 Up]

It looks reasonable given the extent of the imposed Tory/Lib Dem cuts. The council tax freeze continued, keeps the 1000 extra police, more money for frontline NHS.

Labour's criticism of the single year budget is laughable given they refused to reveal what they would cut before the last general election. Is that all Labour can find to whine about? Where are their brilliant ideas? :yawn:

[--------]

Agreed. They also dodged the whole referendum "issue" for fear of not getting the vote. Should have struck whilst the iron was hot.

I voted SNP cause I agree with their doctrines. NOT, because I like that fat wee yam turd in charge nor because I like listening to the nasal whiny tone of excuseathon Sturgeon.

Bottom line; the SNP are both playing liberties with the voters who put them there AND at the mercy of the London chiefs who "give" Scotland some cash.

If there was ever a reason and need for Scottish Independence, it's control of our own budgets. Again ask thee self ; why would (particularly when one/all is "rookit") someone want to maintain a union where one partner is sucking the other dry financially. Clearly, they wouldn't..............so WHY are we still in the union? Is it for the Torries love of Scotland (Google Thatcher, Poll Tax, etc) ... or the Labour love of Scotland, the Lib Dem "do **** all of note" to help anyone....nope, we're still part of the UK due to the fact we PAY well. For now anyway.

When there's nae oil and if by some miracle our tourisim industry dries up and our financial services implode, you'll see wee Davey Cameron up here ripping up the Act of Union and waving his butchers apron as far as the eye can see.

ENDOF

:top marks

[ancienthibby]

Agreed. They also dodged the whole referendum "issue" for fear of not getting the vote. Should have struck whilst the iron was hot.

I voted SNP cause I agree with their doctrines. NOT, because I like that fat wee yam turd in charge nor because I like listening to the nasal whiny tone of excuseathon Sturgeon.

Bottom line; the SNP are both playing liberties with the voters who put them there AND at the mercy of the London chiefs who "give" Scotland some cash.

If there was ever a reason and need for Scottish Independence, it's control of our own budgets. Again ask thee self ; why would (particularly when one/all is "rookit") someone want to maintain a union where one partner is sucking the other dry financially. Clearly, they wouldn't..............so WHY are we still in the union? Is it for the Torries love of Scotland (Google Thatcher, Poll Tax, etc) ... or the Labour love of Scotland, the Lib Dem "do **** all of note" to help anyone....nope, we're still part of the UK due to the fact we PAY well. For now anyway.

When there's nae oil and if by some miracle our tourisim industry dries up and our financial services implode, you'll see wee Davey Cameron up here ripping up the Act of Union and waving his butchers apron as far as the eye can see.

ENDOF

And in the light of today's news is it not a bit odd that Chancellor Osborne has suddenly found billions to bail out Eirish Banks and yet decimates the Scottish budget??:grr:

[Beefster]

And in the light of today's news is it not a bit odd that Chancellor Osborne has suddenly found billions to bail out Eirish Banks and yet decimates the Scottish budget??:grr:

You don't think we should be helping Ireland?

I heard the Welsh First Minister saying that Scotland came out of the cuts very well but that can't be right because you've said that our budget has been decimated. Perhaps if the SNP weren't insisting on hundreds of millions of pounds of bribes to the electorate (free prescriptions anyone?) then you wouldn't feel that we were suffering so badly elsewhere?

[ancienthibby]

You don't think we should be helping Ireland?

I heard the Welsh First Minister saying that Scotland came out of the cuts very well but that can't be right because you've said that our budget has been decimated. Perhaps if the SNP weren't insisting on hundreds of millions of pounds of bribes to the electorate (free prescriptions anyone?) then you wouldn't feel that we were suffering so badly elsewhere?


Is your other name Andy Kerr??:greengrin

[steakbake]

Is your other name Andy Kerr??:greengrin

It's a valid point though. Free prescriptions all round - fine when things are going well. But with the prospect of a 12% cut in education funding (to pick one area at random) would it not be better to forego splashing out on free prescriptions for all - not even means testing - and use the money to keep people in jobs?

[ancienthibby]

It's a valid point though. Free prescriptions all round - fine when things are going well. But with the prospect of a 12% cut in education funding (to pick one area at random) would it not be better to forego splashing out on free prescriptions for all - not even means testing - and use the money to keep people in jobs?


The cuts in education have been pre-agreed and even today, confirmed by such as Anton Muscatelli, Principal of Glasgow Uni!

Myself, I think we are under-educating people at schools level and sending too many to Universities to be educated for jobs that do not exist.

Also, I think the SNP have failed to sort out higher-level salaries (say above £80K) as was mentioned today. That action might have saved many millions but I am well aware of the legal difficulties of maintaining the firm contracts put in place by Lab/LD in the past!!

[lapsedhibee]

I heard the Welsh First Minister saying that Scotland came out of the cuts very well but that can't be right because you've said that our budget has been decimated.

A pedant writes
Perfectly possible for both to be right, in that in its original usage decimated meant 'reduced by 10%'.

[One Day Soon]

Bearing in mind also that the Holyrood government are at the mercy of Westminster and whatever they decide to allocate?

As they have been since elected, regardless of which kind of Tory was in Number Ten?

The UK govt has already announced what the expenditure levels will be for the next three years. There's no mystery about that and its certainly not an impediment to setting a three year budget up here.

[One Day Soon]

Agreed. They also dodged the whole referendum "issue" for fear of not getting the vote. Should have struck whilst the iron was hot.

I voted SNP cause I agree with their doctrines. NOT, because I like that fat wee yam turd in charge nor because I like listening to the nasal whiny tone of excuseathon Sturgeon.

Bottom line; the SNP are both playing liberties with the voters who put them there AND at the mercy of the London chiefs who "give" Scotland some cash.

If there was ever a reason and need for Scottish Independence, it's control of our own budgets. Again ask thee self ; why would (particularly when one/all is "rookit") someone want to maintain a union where one partner is sucking the other dry financially. Clearly, they wouldn't..............so WHY are we still in the union? Is it for the Torries love of Scotland (Google Thatcher, Poll Tax, etc) ... or the Labour love of Scotland, the Lib Dem "do **** all of note" to help anyone....nope, we're still part of the UK due to the fact we PAY well. For now anyway.

When there's nae oil and if by some miracle our tourisim industry dries up and our financial services implode, you'll see wee Davey Cameron up here ripping up the Act of Union and waving his butchers apron as far as the eye can see.

ENDOF

What a crock, as our American cousins say.

[One Day Soon]

And in the light of today's news is it not a bit odd that Chancellor Osborne has suddenly found billions to bail out Eirish Banks and yet decimates the Scottish budget??:grr:

Has he? Where does he say that? Do you have any idea how important an export market Ireland is to the UK economies? What do you think is going to happen if the Irish economy implodes should their banks fall, particularly as regards the Irish population and migration?

[bighairyfaeleith]

What I couldn't get my. Head around is how do you cut the prisons budget by 22%?????

[CropleyWasGod]

What I couldn't get my. Head around is how do you cut the prisons budget by 22%?????

Given the number of appeals pending due to the recent Court ruling about police interviews without lawyers present, the jails could be empty by Christmas :rolleyes:

That said, I hear you, and am probably with you. Maybe some of the contractors (Reliance etc) might be forced to take the hit of reduced spending.

[ancienthibby]

Has he? Where does he say that? Do you have any idea how important an export market Ireland is to the UK economies? What do you think is going to happen if the Irish economy implodes should their banks fall, particularly as regards the Irish population and migration?

Cool the stropiness and don't be such a lazy!:grr: Th information is available via Mr. Google!

But in the spirit of generosity, here is a link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/17/george-osborne-help-ireland-debt-crisis.

If George now can find £7 billion to bail-out Irish Banks, etc, maybe, just maybe, he should have held 50% of these monies back to reduce the savage budget reductions around the UK??:agree:

[Bad Martini]

What a crock, as our American cousins say.

Citing anything our American cousins would say as an intellectual line of thought somewhat undermines your point to undermine my point by the implication the post was a "crock" given some of silly/crass and downright inexplicably STUPID things our Yank Crank cousins have done since some stupid erse unearthed them playing their banjos and shooting the native Indians in the name of freedom and liberty.

However, each to their ain; you feel free to yer inspiration from yon Yanks....:devil:

I'll take my inspiration from the real world where, yes, the SNP are at times guilty of being (as our weej cousins would say) "faaaaaaanies" but are also correct in stating we can only piss with the member we have - we get the cash the "Government" thinks we need.

Barnet Formula; *****.
Westminster Government; *****.

Looking after yer ain interests selfishly; the answer. Let the English have a parliament. Upgrade the Welsh assembly. Do the same for the Northern Irish and give Scotland independence.

Consider how useful it would be to give your nextdoor neighbour your wages every month and ask them to give you back what you need....and throw into the equation your nextdoor neighbour is living 400 miles away. Would that work? That, my friend, is a crock.

ENDOF, in my most considered, humble and moderate opinion :cool2:

[Hainan Hibs]

Citing anything our American cousins would say as an intellectual line of thought somewhat undermines your point to undermine my point by the implication the post was a "crock" given some of silly/crass and downright inexplicably STUPID things our Yank Crank cousins have done since some stupid erse unearthed them playing their banjos and shooting the native Indians in the name of freedom and liberty.

However, each to their ain; you feel free to yer inspiration from yon Yanks....:devil:

I'll take my inspiration from the real world where, yes, the SNP are at times guilty of being (as our weej cousins would say) "faaaaaaanies" but are also correct in stating we can only piss with the member we have - we get the cash the "Government" thinks we need.

Barnet Formula; *****.
Westminster Government; *****.

Looking after yer ain interests selfishly; the answer. Let the English have a parliament. Upgrade the Welsh assembly. Do the same for the Northern Irish and give Scotland independence.

Consider how useful it would be to give your nextdoor neighbour your wages every month and ask them to give you back what you need....and throw into the equation your nextdoor neighbour is living 400 miles away. Would that work? That, my friend, is a crock.

ENDOF, in my most considered, humble and moderate opinion :cool2:

You can shove it, I'd rather have the ****ing dream team of Ian Gray, Andy Kerr, Bendy Wendy and Lord Foulkes running the show:bye::greengrin

People can piss and moan about the budget, but if they dropped the inferiority complex, threw away their "we cannae dae it" wee lassie attitude, and grew a set and voted for independence we wouldn't be in half the trouble we are in now.

But hey, let's send everything to Westminster, beg for a portion back, and moan about the cuts it causes at the Scottish Parliament.

[Beefster]

You can shove it, I'd rather have the ****ing dream team of Ian Gray, Andy Kerr, Bendy Wendy and Lord Foulkes running the show:bye::greengrin

People can piss and moan about the budget, but if they dropped the inferiority complex, threw away their "we cannae dae it" wee lassie attitude, and grew a set and voted for independence we wouldn't be in half the trouble we are in now.

But hey, let's send everything to Westminster, beg for a portion back, and moan about the cuts it causes at the Scottish Parliament.

Really? How often has Alex Salmond held Ireland up recently as an example of what Scotland could achieve?

[Mibbes Aye]

Really? How often has Alex Salmond held Ireland up recently as an example of what Scotland could achieve?

:agree:

Couple of years ago he was saying we should copy Iceland, and join the 'arc of prosperity'.

"If they can do it, so can we" he said.

I dread to think..........

[ancienthibby]

:agree:

Couple of years ago he was saying we should copy Iceland, and join the 'arc of prosperity'.

"If they can do it, so can we" he said.

I dread to think..........


Ah the wonders of perfect hindsight!!:greengrin

And just where were you in predicting the collapse of the global banking industry??:devil::bye:

[ancienthibby]

Well, if you ever needed some evidence for the overwhelming 'corruption of democracy' by Westminster, here it is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11796066

Even more £300 per day unelected 'Lords' taking the number well beyond 700 and well beyond the number of elected MPs!!:grr::grr:

Not only that, look at the list and you'll find Tweedledum of the Fib-Dems (i.e. Nicol Stephen) unemployable in Scottish politics now, about to become a paid-up member of the Westminster gravy train!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.:confused:

[RyeSloan]

Ah the wonders of perfect hindsight!!:greengrin

And just where were you in predicting the collapse of the global banking industry??:devil::bye:

But the point is still just as valid. Salmond couldn't stop himself in saying Scotland was losing out because we weren't free to copy Ireland and Iceland.

The fact is that if we were and he had his way we would be well and truely ****ed by now. So much so that it makes these cuts look like a tiny scratch in comparison.

Salmond is a brilliant politician but that's it...he would have lead the country to ruin yet shows absolutely no contrition of the fact that he trumpeted the Scotland should join the arc of prosperity line for so long.

[ancienthibby]

But the point is still just as valid. Salmond couldn't stop himself in saying Scotland was losing out because we weren't free to copy Ireland and Iceland.

The fact is that if we were and he had his way we would be well and truely ****ed by now. So much so that it makes these cuts look like a tiny scratch in comparison.

Salmond is a brilliant politician but that's it...he would have lead the country to ruin yet shows absolutely no contrition of the fact that he trumpeted the Scotland should join the arc of prosperity line for so long.

I take it there's an 'if' or 'had' missing from your statement.

May I say with respect, you are also dealing in the 'pink specs of hindsight'!!

No one, just no one, knows what an independent Scotland might have done with banking regulation, if it actually had that power.

Back-loading your ideas onto a mythical historical situation is just - well - myth!!:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

I take it there's an 'if' or 'had' missing from your statement.

May I say with respect, you are also dealing in the 'pink specs of hindsight'!!

No one, just no one, knows what an independent Scotland might have done with banking regulation, if it actually had that power.

Back-loading your ideas onto a mythical historical situation is just - well - myth!!:greengrin

The sentence reads OK to me, it states "IF we were"..anyway I'm quite sure you managed to get the point it was making.

So Salmond trumpets the Icelandic and Irish way as the route Scotland should follow but then you are suggesting he wouldn't have went about replicating their 'success'

No pink specs needed, he quite clearly proposed their economic model as the one Scotland should follow...the consequences of what would have happened are clear as day for all to see.

[ancienthibby]

The sentence reads OK to me, it states "IF we were"..anyway I'm quite sure you managed to get the point it was making.

So Salmond trumpets the Icelandic and Irish way as the route Scotland should follow but then you are suggesting he wouldn't have went about replicating their 'success'

No pink specs needed, he quite clearly proposed their economic model as the one Scotland should follow...the consequences of what would have happened are clear as day for all to see.


Salmond knew no better than you or anyone else who 'trumpeted the Arc of Prosperity'.

All I am saying is that it is a tad disengenuous for any poster to criticise Salmond when you and a million 'hind-sighted' others never called this in the first place!:greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Salmond knew no better than you or anyone else who 'trumpeted the Arc of Prosperity'.

All I am saying is that it is a tad disengenuous for any poster to criticise Salmond when you and a million 'hind-sighted' others never called this in the first place!:greengrin

What a strange argument. I think you will find there was plenty of people that didn't want to follow Irelands example..also it wasn't me or the million others that was stamping our feet and saying 'it's no fair we want to be just like them'...nor were we trying to make political capital out of it in the name of Independence

What is clear is that IF we had followed Irelands and Icelands economic policy like Salmond clearly wanted to do this country would be finished. You can't get away from that.

[RyeSloan]

Well, if you ever needed some evidence for the overwhelming 'corruption of democracy' by Westminster, here it is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11796066

Even more £300 per day unelected 'Lords' taking the number well beyond 700 and well beyond the number of elected MPs!!:grr::grr:

Not only that, look at the list and you'll find Tweedledum of the Fib-Dems (i.e. Nicol Stephen) unemployable in Scottish politics now, about to become a paid-up member of the Westminster gravy train!!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.:confused:

Agree totally....seems an excessive number and a waste of cash but then again so does this..£1.2m on a 'non referendum' (http://news.scotsman.com/news/SNP-39wasted-12m-on-lost.6631755.jp)...seems that it's not just Westminster that knows how to waste money!

[ancienthibby]

What a strange argument. I think you will find there was plenty of people that didn't want to follow Irelands example..also it wasn't me or the million others that was stamping our feet and saying 'it's no fair we want to be just like them'...nor were we trying to make political capital out of it in the name of Independence

What is clear is that IF we had followed Irelands and Icelands economic policy like Salmond clearly wanted to do this country would be finished. You can't get away from that.


Straw dog syndrome rules, then!!:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

But the point is still just as valid. Salmond couldn't stop himself in saying Scotland was losing out because we weren't free to copy Ireland and Iceland.

The fact is that if we were and he had his way we would be well and truely ****ed by now. So much so that it makes these cuts look like a tiny scratch in comparison.

Salmond is a brilliant politician but that's it...he would have lead the country to ruin yet shows absolutely no contrition of the fact that he trumpeted the Scotland should join the arc of prosperity line for so long.

Who says he would be leading an independent Scotland?

The bottom line is most people support the snp because of the independence issue, a lot of there other policies are pretty **** and they would in no way be guaranteed to lead us after we won independence.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Agree totally....seems an excessive number and a waste of cash but then again so does this..£1.2m on a 'non referendum' (http://news.scotsman.com/news/SNP-39wasted-12m-on-lost.6631755.jp)...seems that it's not just Westminster that knows how to waste money!

Trust me the scottish parliament knows how to waste cash alright, I've had experience dealing with them and the priorities of the msps when it comes to public spending is frankly shocking, and worst of all they are actually helped by the staff at the parliament to do it.

[Jack]

I’ve arrived on this thread a bit late. :rolleyes:

Just one thing I’d like to point out is on prescription charges.

There's no great cost dishing them out free, I can’t remember how much but it’s hardly even 10s of millions, if that, never anywhere near billions.

The fact is that only around 9% of the prescription items issued are to folk that would have to pay for them. Yeah! 91% of the population got them free anyway!

Set against this the folk who, for example, might get 2 or 3 items and may go with none rather than pay the money, or have to make choices – sometimes leading to more expensive treatments later on.

How many folk here have not ‘cashed’ in a prescription because they had to pay? I did when I was younger - and skint.

Think of the systems that need to be in place to administer the payments and attempt to track down the fraud – that was rife BTW.

So all in all we have a healthier population for little significant cost, a few millions. A few NHS admin staff paid off or maybe even redeployed doing something to help patients rather than making them criminals. :greengrin

On the other hand, UK, we have a huge amount of tax and revenue not collected or avoided. Think somewhere around the region of £180 BILLIONS each year! :grr:

[Part/Time Supporter]

The sentence reads OK to me, it states "IF we were"..anyway I'm quite sure you managed to get the point it was making.

So Salmond trumpets the Icelandic and Irish way as the route Scotland should follow but then you are suggesting he wouldn't have went about replicating their 'success'

No pink specs needed, he quite clearly proposed their economic model as the one Scotland should follow...the consequences of what would have happened are clear as day for all to see.

You could also say that if Scotland had listened to Alex Salmond and his predecessors in the 1970s, the independent Scotland would now have a sovereign wealth fund comparable to Norway and not be ****ed in the slightest. Instead it was spent on the "welfare" state and English infrastructure projects (ie the M25).

Of course this was all hushed up by the civil service, and the Scottish electorate was assured that oil was a short term gain that would no longer generate revenue by some point in the late 1980s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s9NwrhWlPM&NR=1

[Part/Time Supporter]

You don't think we should be helping Ireland?

I heard the Welsh First Minister saying that Scotland came out of the cuts very well but that can't be right because you've said that our budget has been decimated. Perhaps if the SNP weren't insisting on hundreds of millions of pounds of bribes to the electorate (free prescriptions anyone?) then you wouldn't feel that we were suffering so badly elsewhere?

Labour proposal: "free" newspaper subscription for all 18 year olds.

That wouldn't be to help their friends at the Daily Record, would it?

[John_the_angus_hibby]

Has he? Where does he say that? Do you have any idea how important an export market Ireland is to the UK economies? What do you think is going to happen if the Irish economy implodes should their banks fall, particularly as regards the Irish population and migration?

It's more the impact on our banks if Ireland defaults on it's debt. It would compare to Lehman's collapse. With credit swaps the debt of Ireland is spread all about the place. It's also about not spreading contagion. If Ireland goes, the focus moves to 'who next'. It's protecting the Eurozone. And that is in our interests.

[John_the_angus_hibby]

The sentence reads OK to me, it states "IF we were"..anyway I'm quite sure you managed to get the point it was making.

So Salmond trumpets the Icelandic and Irish way as the route Scotland should follow but then you are suggesting he wouldn't have went about replicating their 'success'

No pink specs needed, he quite clearly proposed their economic model as the one Scotland should follow...the consequences of what would have happened are clear as day for all to see.

Hindsight, whatever. I'm just delighted he did not have an independent mandate to have done it. We would be a serious basket case right now if he had.

[Beefster]

Labour proposal: "free" newspaper subscription for all 18 year olds.

That wouldn't be to help their friends at the Daily Record, would it?

I hadn't heard that proposal. That would be utterly laughable, even if we were rolling in cash and irrespective of how much it costs.

Do you think they'll pay for my Private Eye subscription?

I've just searched and seen a list of Labour's big promises, including the free papers. If this is the quality of the policy-makers that are, almost certainly, going to make up our next executive, I despair.

[Hibbyradge]

[SIZE=2]
[SIZE=2]The fact is that only around 9% of the prescription items issued are to folk that would have to pay for them. Yeah! 91% of the population got them free anyway!

Is that right?

Maybe 91% of prescriptions issued are to people who are exempt - e.g. the elderly need a lot more medication than the younger workforce - but that wouldn't equate to 91% of the population being entitled to get them free.

[Part/Time Supporter]

Gary Gibbon from Channel 4 news makes the pertinent point for all Scottish Labour's jumping up and down about the SNP not budgeting beyond 2011/12, that is precisely what UK Labour did at Westminster.

http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-budget-painful-times-ahead/14109

[Beefster]

Is that right?

Maybe 91% of prescriptions issued are to people who are exempt - e.g. the elderly need a lot more medication than the younger workforce - but that wouldn't equate to 91% of the population being entitled to get them free.

You're right. It's 91% of prescriptions are dispensed free of charge (i.e. to children, pregnant women, pensioners, people with medical exemptions etc) rather than 91% of people are exempt from prescription charges.

[Beefster]

There's no great cost dishing them out free, I can’t remember how much but it’s hardly even 10s of millions, if that, never anywhere near billions.

I'm not sure of the figures but, assuming that 6 million prescriptions are paid for per annum (I think it might be more), that brings in £38m pa @£6.40 per item and £24m pa @ £4.

How many doctors and nurses would that pay for? Instead, we're extending free prescriptions to the middle classes and millionaires - wouldn't it be better for the NHS to just revise the exemptions to make them fairer? Remember that someone with serious prescription costs for a period can buy a 'season ticket' at a fraction of the amount they would pay per item.

[Hibbyradge]

I needed to get a prescription just the other week.

I was gob smacked (in a pleased way) when I was only charged £3.00.

I don't really see any need to reduce that price any further.

[lapsedhibee]

I needed to get a prescription just the other week.

I was gob smacked (in a pleased way) when I was only charged £3.00.

I don't really see any need to reduce that price any further.

Likewise stunned a few months ago. And shudder to think what the admin costs of collection take out of the £3 - would guess that taking those into account must make it quite close to being not worth collecting at all.

Bump it up.

[Jack]

I'm not sure of the figures but, assuming that 6 million prescriptions are paid for per annum (I think it might be more), that brings in £38m pa @£6.40 per item and £24m pa @ £4.

How many doctors and nurses would that pay for? Instead, we're extending free prescriptions to the middle classes and millionaires - wouldn't it be better for the NHS to just revise the exemptions to make them fairer? Remember that someone with serious prescription costs for a period can buy a 'season ticket' at a fraction of the amount they would pay per item.

I think we’re just going to have to disagree that free prescriptions are a good/bad thing.

While you say, quite rightly, that we're extending free prescriptions to the middle classes and millionaires, I’d put it the Scottish Government is extending free prescriptions to everyone who is sick.

An article on the BBC when the policy was rolled out in 2008 suggests the cost to the taxpayer will be £97m a year.

[ancienthibby]

Gary Gibbon from Channel 4 news makes the pertinent point for all Scottish Labour's jumping up and down about the SNP not budgeting beyond 2011/12, that is precisely what UK Labour did at Westminster.

http://blogs.channel4.com/gary-gibbon-on-politics/scottish-budget-painful-times-ahead/14109

And on that theme, I can't help but think that Labour, Fib-Dems and Tories are going to suffer a voter backlash at the May elections for all their flag-waving antics over the SNP 's avoidance of maintaining the tax-raising powers.:greengrin

To see all these parties trumpeting their righteous anger, effectively saying we would be willing to raise taxes, will do go down like a lead balloon in the election campaign when VAT has just gone up to 20% and other tax rises are taking effect, too. To say nothing of the 8% hikes in energy costs announced this week, with winter bills hitting the electorate - guess when?? around election time!:agree:

[RyeSloan]

And on that theme, I can't help but think that Labour, Fib-Dems and Tories are going to suffer a voter backlash at the May elections for all their flag-waving antics over the SNP 's avoidance of maintaining the tax-raising powers.:greengrin

To see all these parties trumpeting their righteous anger, effectively saying we would be willing to raise taxes, will do go down like a lead balloon in the election campaign when VAT has just gone up to 20% and other tax rises are taking effect, too. To say nothing of the 8% hikes in energy costs announced this week, with winter bills hitting the electorate - guess when?? around election time!:agree:

Would it not be more accurate to call them 'tax varying powers'?

Seems typical to me that this is dubbed the 'tartan tax' and all the focus is on the fact that it could go up.

It could have been used as an excellent way of lowering the Scottish income tax burden for basic rate tax payers (which of course is a nicely progressive move) while making Scotland more competitive within the UK but as the ability to vary the rate wasn't even maintained it really does reflect the lack of strategic thinking at a Scottish level.

[RyeSloan]

Hindsight, whatever. I'm just delighted he did not have an independent mandate to have done it. We would be a serious basket case right now if he had.

Exactly.

[RyeSloan]

You could also say that if Scotland had listened to Alex Salmond and his predecessors in the 1970s, the independent Scotland would now have a sovereign wealth fund comparable to Norway and not be ****ed in the slightest. Instead it was spent on the "welfare" state and English infrastructure projects (ie the M25).

Of course this was all hushed up by the civil service, and the Scottish electorate was assured that oil was a short term gain that would no longer generate revenue by some point in the late 1980s...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4s9NwrhWlPM&NR=1

A very valid point and I think the fact that there is not a sovereign wealth fund even at a UK level as something of a disgrace...you could argue however that there is not one because almost every goverment since has spent it all, with previous incumbents the worst of the lot.

Still you can't give Alex credit for his 70's suggestions and not give him pelters for his 'arc of prosperity'.

He was either right about one and horribly wrong about the other or we simply ignore all that he says :greengrin

[Bad Martini]

The bottom line is, we just dont KNOW for sure how an independent Scotland would currently be sitting in the worldwide recession.

There's a good chance we'd be feeling a lot of pain.

HOWEVER, I'd wager had we not wasted ****ing botloads on illegal wars we canny win, useless nukes we canny fire and stupid olympics and other showboatting sheite nobody cares aboot, we'd be better off (notwithstanding that Godforsaken Homecoming waste of cash).

I'd rather have taken my chances with us (selfishly/greedily/whateverily) looking after OUR own cash (incomes and outgoings) over the ********s in Westminster who have taken EVERY opportunity they can to blame the bankers for EVERYTHING that has gone wrong over the last 10 years but not one senior politican has had the balls to say:

1) BUT WE should and could have legislated against them instead of giving them MORE powers themselves
2) AND WE freely admit when the "good times" were forthcoming from the banks and financial sector, we TOOK their tax and money they brought IN to the economy.

I dont like bankers any more than I like politicians. They are ALL bassas.

BUT, at least the bankers had the balls to admit when they ****ed up. I have not heard the politicians do the same, except when they were forced to admit they had their ***** moats cleaned, their private ponds drained and their 3 hooses paid for by us.

And not ONE has been jailed for fraud or theft so far....

BASSAS :grr:

[Mibbes Aye]

Ah the wonders of perfect hindsight!!:greengrin

And just where were you in predicting the collapse of the global banking industry??:devil::bye:

Actually, somewhere way back in here there's a thread about the 'Tiger Economy' and it's not just me who suggests it's not a sensible route for an independent Scotland - dig it out :wink:

As for the global crisis, most countries have taken and are taking serious steps in response. Ireland and Iceland have been two very extreme examples however. And of course they're two of the economies Salmond went on about us copying.

I'm waiting for someone to find a speech or policy paper of his, from a couple of years ago where he calls on us to follow the Greek example :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

Would it not be more accurate to call them 'tax varying powers'?

Seems typical to me that this is dubbed the 'tartan tax' and all the focus is on the fact that it could go up.

It could have been used as an excellent way of lowering the Scottish income tax burden for basic rate tax payers (which of course is a nicely progressive move) while making Scotland more competitive within the UK but as the ability to vary the rate wasn't even maintained it really does reflect the lack of strategic thinking at a Scottish level.

The problem with the tartan tax (both cutting it or raising it) is that it would not directly affect the budget of the Scottish Government. The revenues would all still flow to Westminster and the SG would have to take whatever block grant was handed down, which is largely driven by the Barnett formula.

HMRC would also no doubt demand some additional fees - on top of the existing arrangements that are being so heatedly debated now - for collecting the amended tax rate. We've already seen from issues like the housing benefit dispute when the SNP wanted to scrap the council tax that the Treasury would act intransigently in any negotiation.

Basically it wouldn't be worth the hassle, which is why nobody has proposed to use it for years.

The only way to resolve the situation is to have a devolved HMRC and full implementation of Calman's recommendations, making the SG responsible for the taxes directly raised within Scotland. Some taxes would still be centrally determined, eg VAT due to European law which only allows for weird specific exceptions, like that Greek monastery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos#Status_in_the_European_Union), to the national VAT rates applied.

[RyeSloan]

The problem with the tartan tax (both cutting it or raising it) is that it would not directly affect the budget of the Scottish Government. The revenues would all still flow to Westminster and the SG would have to take whatever block grant was handed down, which is largely driven by the Barnett formula.

HMRC would also no doubt demand some additional fees - on top of the existing arrangements that are being so heatedly debated now - for collecting the amended tax rate. We've already seen from issues like the housing benefit dispute when the SNP wanted to scrap the council tax that the Treasury would act intransigently in any negotiation.

Basically it wouldn't be worth the hassle, which is why nobody has proposed to use it for years.

The only way to resolve the situation is to have a devolved HMRC and full implementation of Calman's recommendations, making the SG responsible for the taxes directly raised within Scotland. Some taxes would still be centrally determined, eg VAT due to European law which only allows for weird specific exceptions, like that Greek monastery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Athos#Status_in_the_European_Union), to the national VAT rates applied.

If the tax varying powers don't actually directly effect the block grant then all the more reason to drop the tax rate I would say! Put more money in Scottish peoples pockets, make working in Scotland more attractive to all UK residents and the Scottish government doesn't even have to pay for it.....surely this is right up the SNP's street!! :greengrin

I agree though that the mechanics are far from stright forward but this only highlights to me why Calmans recomendations and a move towards a more devolved tax raising mechanism should be at the top of the list for the Scottish Government to push forward on.

Sadly a real and demonstrable plan on how to manage the Scottish economy and the tax take it raises at a Scottish level has been conspicuous by it's absence since devolution....which may be excusable from pro unionist parties but from a separatist one?

[Bad Martini]

If the tax varying powers don't actually directly effect the block grant then all the more reason to drop the tax rate I would say! Put more money in Scottish peoples pockets, make working in Scotland more attractive to all UK residents and the Scottish government doesn't even have to pay for it.....surely this is right up the SNP's street!! :greengrin

I agree though that the mechanics are far from stright forward but this only highlights to me why Calmans recomendations and a move towards a more devolved tax raising mechanism should be at the top of the list for the Scottish Government to push forward on.

Sadly a real and demonstrable plan on how to manage the Scottish economy and the tax take it raises at a Scottish level has been conspicuous by it's absence since devolution....which may be excusable from pro unionist parties but from a separatist one?

It is complicated. Semi-concessionary, otiose powers often are. Here's a radge idea.

Westminster gives us NO cash.
We give them NO cash either.
...
We decide how many taxes we need, when to use them, how much they are etc.
We levy it, we keep what we make and they give us **** all, we give them **** all.

We use the money we make, to run THIS country. NO handouts and no money to the UK treasury.

It's all down to how much you believe you can make enough money to sustain yourself. If we truly have so little confidence in our own ability to at least break even, then we are the sponging, leaches we've been called for years. On the balance, I rather think we're no tho....

I'd ****ing love to find out tho.

ENDOF