Airdrie celebrate diversity, remember the Wehrmacht

[(((Fergus)))]

http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Airdrie-programme.jpg

Genuine match programme from the weekend :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

conclusive proof they are huns.

[--------]

http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Airdrie-programme.jpg

Genuine match programme from the weekend :greengrin


Well, the colours are the same.... :rolleyes:

[dangermouse]

I see they have issued a full apology on their website.

[Peevemor]

I see they have issued a full apology on their website.


I would like to unreservedly apologise for the error on our Remembrance programme which resulted in the wrong photograph being used for the front cover.
The original match sponsor for the game was Network Rail so I decided to base our Remembrance programme images on wartime trains. A number of photos were considered and when the final choice was made, the wrong image was lifted which was almost identical to the one that I had selected. Unfortunately it showed German soldiers instead of allied troops with the nurses.
As a Club, we are hugely supportive of Remembrance and have dedicated our Remembrance weekend programme to poppyscotland for a number of years. We always have a minutes silence and we also played in special strips bearing the poppy, all of which makes the programme gaffe very embarrassing.
Personally, I am devastated at this unfortunate mistake as I am immensely passionate about Remembrance and wear my poppy with pride, however you can be assured that the same mistake will never be made again.

Jim Ballantyne
Chairman
Airdrie United FC


I bet somebody has a sore bum. :greengrin

[Heraghty's]

Back in 2004, Airdrie chairman Jim Ballantyne complained bitterly ( :wink: ) about a comment in a Morton programme that suggested his club sold SS uniforms on their website.

So this is not too much of a surprise. :agree:

[Keith_M]

http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Airdrie-programme.jpg

Genuine match programme from the weekend :greengrin



Wow! Who'd ever have thought it? Airdrie and Celtc were on the same side during the war :greengrin

[Wilson]

I see they have issued a full apology on their website.

For the football?

[CropleyWasGod]

Actually, although it was a cock-up, why wouldn't it be OK to use images of German soldiers?

In the spirit of reconciliation, "all dead in all wars" and all that, it would be a progressive statement.

Maybe Airdrie isn't the place to start, though... :rolleyes:

[Future17]

I see they have issued a full apology on their website.

I don't see why they have apologised - it was Remembrance Day weekend and German soldiers died in both wars as well. :can'tfindstirringsmiley:

[Keith_M]

Actually, although it was a cock-up, why wouldn't it be OK to use images of German soldiers?

In the spirit of reconciliation, "all dead in all wars" and all that, it would be a progressive statement.

Maybe Airdrie isn't the place to start, though... :rolleyes:

I think that's the point. It's the 2nd most unfortunate place they could have done that in Scotland. I'll leave it up to you to decide what the least fortunate place would have been but I've already decided.


FWIW, that's actually a really cool picture. British Red Cross workers handing food to captured enemy soldiers just showed the class of those ladies and others like them.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Such misunderstandings are commonplace:

http://www.3click.tv/mp4//Father%20Ted/season%203/metadata/178581.jpg

[CropleyWasGod]

I think that's the point. It's the 2nd most unfortunate place they could have done that in Scotland. I'll leave it up to you to decide what the least fortunate place would have been but I've already decided.


FWIW, that's actually a really cool picture. British Red Cross workers handing food to captured enemy soldiers just showed the class of those ladies and others like them.

Agreed.

It's ironic that the Airdrie guy didn't appreciate that he had a decent and appropriate image on his hands.

Ironic, but probably not surprising.

Edit... just emailed Airdrie. Be interesting to see their response.

[joe breezy]

Agreed.

It's ironic that the Airdrie guy didn't appreciate that he had a decent and appropriate image on his hands.

Ironic, but probably not surprising.

Edit... just emailed Airdrie. Be interesting to see their response.

The Airdrie guy thought what everyone else's first reaction would be, for a support that likes nazi salutes he's immediately defensive

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I thought that picture was just a preview of what their casuals will be wearing to games as the fancy dress festive period gets nearer.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Such misunderstandings are commonplace:

http://www.3click.tv/mp4//Father%20Ted/season%203/metadata/178581.jpg


just saw that episode a couple of weeks ago :LOL:

[basehibby]

http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Airdrie-programme.jpg

Genuine match programme from the weekend :greengrin

You couldny make this one up - what's the bet they'll have a comemorative burning cross program for next easter?!?

[Dunbar Hibee]

Such misunderstandings are commonplace:

http://www.3click.tv/mp4//Father%20Ted/season%203/metadata/178581.jpg

:faf::faf::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[LancashireHibby]

Being a programme editor myself, I've nothing but sympathy for the guy responsible for the mistake, I'm sure he'll be absolutely gutted.

[tony higgins]

The Airdrie chairman has apologised.

http://i52.tinypic.com/w1qn93.jpg

[Mixu62]

they also need to apologise the the German far right movement. Any association with Airdrie will seriously damage their reputation.

[Fantic]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:_96kX_60HLa4gM:http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/_B__Eagle_1977.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/_B__Eagle_1977.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/&usg=__oaswvKmTouxkcDat_EmXyry2RQU=&h=236&w=450&sz=30&hl=en&start=4&zoom=1&tbnid=_96kX_60HLa4gM:&tbnh=67&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dairdrie%2Bsection%2Bb%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_enGB383GB383%26tbs%3D isch:1&um=1&itbs=1)

the picture was no mistake but they're trying to backtrack now.

[Dunbar Hibee]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:_96kX_60HLa4gM:http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/_B__Eagle_1977.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/_B__Eagle_1977.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/&usg=__oaswvKmTouxkcDat_EmXyry2RQU=&h=236&w=450&sz=30&hl=en&start=4&zoom=1&tbnid=_96kX_60HLa4gM:&tbnh=67&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dairdrie%2Bsection%2Bb%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_enGB383GB383%26tbs%3D isch:1&um=1&itbs=1)

the picture was no mistake but they're trying to backtrack now.

****my *******s

[greenlex]

Pish. Are you saying Airdrie casuals or whatever they like to call themselves are editing the matchday programme?

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:_96kX_60HLa4gM:http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/_B__Eagle_1977.jpg (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/_B__Eagle_1977.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.freewebs.com/airdrieyouthfirm/&usg=__oaswvKmTouxkcDat_EmXyry2RQU=&h=236&w=450&sz=30&hl=en&start=4&zoom=1&tbnid=_96kX_60HLa4gM:&tbnh=67&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dairdrie%2Bsection%2Bb%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GZAZ_enGB383GB383%26tbs%3D isch:1&um=1&itbs=1)

the picture was no mistake but they're trying to backtrack now.

[marinello59]

Pish. Are you saying Airdrie casuals or whatever they like to call themselves are editing the matchday programme?

I did wonder about the free crayons on the cover.

[khib70]

http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/314640-1/execution

[Arch Stanton]

I don't see why they have apologised - it was Remembrance Day weekend and German soldiers died in both wars as well. :can'tfindstirringsmiley:

Indeed, and while the BBC Scotland last night were reporting it as if it was a horrendously offensive error, I didn't see it that way at all.

[CropleyWasGod]

This is the reply I just received from them:-

"Thank you for your words which are very much apprecaited."

:confused:

Even allowing for the lack of a spell check on their typewriter, wtf??

[Killiehibbie]

I don't see the problem with the picture. Different if it had been SS uniforms.

[Peevemor]

I don't see the problem with the picture. Different if it had been SS uniforms.

:agree: The apology makes it worse IMHO.

[khib70]

I don't see the problem with the picture. Different if it had been SS uniforms.
Worse, yes. However, there are many well-documented cases of atrocities committed by regular Wehrmacht units, especially, but not exclusively, in Russia.

Germany should of course remember all of her war dead like any other country, and does. It's still enormously insensitive to "celebrate" Remembrance day by depicting enemy forces, when there are thousands of pictures available depicting British troops and trains.

[Hibernian Verse]

If they hadn't gone anywhere near trains, then this wouldn't have happened. Further proof that ScotRail are useless.

[Fantic]

Worse, yes. However, there are many well-documented cases of atrocities committed by regular Wehrmacht units, especially, but not exclusively, in Russia.

Germany should of course remember all of her war dead like any other country, and does. It's still enormously insensitive to "celebrate" Remembrance day by depicting enemy forces, when there are thousands of pictures available depicting British troops and trains.

Exactly. And it just so happens that this 'mistake' of printing a picture of men who are presumably heading of to fight on behalf of the 3rd riech, is made by a club which is followed by a group of nazi's.:crazy:

[(((Fergus)))]

It wasn't the SS who, for example, firebombed British cities in unprovoked attacks. I don't understand people who wish to "remember" those arse holes. They got what was coming to them.

[CropleyWasGod]

It wasn't the SS who, for example, firebombed British cities in unprovoked attacks. I don't understand people who wish to "remember" those arse holes. They got what was coming to them.

It also wasn't the SS, or indeed the Luftwaffe, who firebombed Dresden. And we remember the "arse holes" who did that.

Forces do nasty things in wars. Remembrance days are a chance to put it into perspective, and get some sort of reconciliation.

[lapsedhibee]

It also wasn't the SS, or indeed the Luftwaffe, who firebombed Dresden. And we remember the "arse holes" who did that.

Forces do nasty things in wars. Remembrance days are a chance to put it into perspective, and get some sort of reconciliation.

:agree: Not forgetting also that "we" invented concentration camps.

[Keith_M]

Agreed.

It's ironic that the Airdrie guy didn't appreciate that he had a decent and appropriate image on his hands.

Ironic, but probably not surprising.

Edit... just emailed Airdrie. Be interesting to see their response.

Did you get a reply? I decided to E-Mail the club as well, and say basically what we both thought about the picture. I got a very nice reply from a Mrs Ballantyne, presumably the chairman's wife.

I know it's a laugh to make jokes about rival clubs and all that (which I enjoy doing) but this was a genuine mistake, one I felt wasn't as bad as "Offended Daily Mail Reader, Surrey" were trying to make out.

[CropleyWasGod]

Did you get a reply? I decided to E-Mail the club as well, and say basically what we both thought about the picture. I got a very nice reply from a Mrs Ballantyne, presumably the chairman's wife.

I know it's a laugh to make jokes about rival clubs and all that (which I enjoy doing) but this was a genuine mistake, one I felt wasn't as bad as "Offended Daily Mail Reader, Surrey" were trying to make out.

My earlier post:-

This is the reply I just received from them:-

"Thank you for your words which are very much apprecaited."



Even allowing for the lack of a spell check on their typewriter, wtf??

[Keith_M]

My earlier post:-

This is the reply I just received from them:-

"Thank you for your words which are very much apprecaited."



Even allowing for the lack of a spell check on their typewriter, wtf??

Oops, I didn't notice that. I got something along the same lines, but without the spelling mistakes :wink:

[(((Fergus)))]

It also wasn't the SS, or indeed the Luftwaffe, who firebombed Dresden. And we remember the "arse holes" who did that.

Forces do nasty things in wars. Remembrance days are a chance to put it into perspective, and get some sort of reconciliation.

The Germans started the war, they brought it on themselves.

Reconciliation was only possible because we utterly defeated them and firebombing Dresden helped us do that.

[Keith_M]

The Germans started the war, they brought it on themselves.

Reconciliation was only possible because we utterly defeated them and firebombing Dresden helped us do that.

Have you ever considered a career in diplomacy?

:wink:

[Bishop Hibee]

Section B started the war, they brought it on themselves.

Reconciliation was only possible because we utterly defeated them and firebombing Airdrie helped us do that.

Sorted :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

A bit of a gross overeaction here, the guy from Airdrie held his hands up, gave a perfectly plausible explanation of what happened, yet people are still making out the man did it on purpose.

[CropleyWasGod]

A bit of a gross overeaction here, the guy from Airdrie held one hand up, gave a perfectly plausible explanation of what happened, yet people are still making out the man did it on purpose.

He was only following orders, like? :greengrin

[Future17]

:agree: Not forgetting also that "we" invented concentration camps.

Think the Spanish actually beat us to that particular accolade. We copied their idea.


The Germans started the war, they brought it on themselves.

They didn't start a war with Britian though, we declared war on them.

I know what you mean but revisionism is a dangerous thing.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Germans started the war, they brought it on themselves.

.

Behave. We all know that Basil Fawlty started it.

[Keith_M]

A bit of a gross overeaction here, the guy from Airdrie held his hands up, gave a perfectly plausible explanation of what happened, yet people are still making out the man did it on purpose.


I haven't read any comments that come even close to that. Most comments, except the hauf wit commenting about the Dresden bombing, are kind of in a humorous vein.

[CropleyWasGod]

I haven't read any comments that come even close to that. Most comments, except the hauf wit commenting about the Dresden bombing, are kind of in a humorous vein.

Oi!!!!

:greengrin

[Keith_M]

Oi!!!!

:greengrin


Ach, I knew you'd take it in good heart. :wink:




p.s. My wife's from Dresden, feel free to discuss your views with her.

p.p.s She's a black belt in Tae Kwon Do (No, I'm not making that up!).

[Bostonhibby]

http://footballsfootball.com/WeknowSFA/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Airdrie-programme.jpg

Genuine match programme from the weekend :greengrin

They genuinely do celebrate diversity round Airdrie way, they tolerate all forms of protestant views ranging from the extreme hun at one end of the spectrum right through to the uncomplicated bowler hat marching and sash wearing moderate at the other. I've heard they even have women there :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

Ach, I knew you'd take it in good heart. :wink:




p.s. My wife's from Dresden, feel free to discuss your views with her.

p.p.s She's a black belt in Tae Kwon Do (No, I'm not making that up!).

So I'll carpet bomb her first? :greengrin

[wpj]

I bet somebody has a sore bum. :greengrin

Aye, wee Airdrie jambo :wink:

[Malthibby]

i think we mentioned the war once, but I think we got away with it...............

[Phil D. Rolls]

I haven't read any comments that come even close to that. Most comments, except the hauf wit commenting about the Dresden bombing, are kind of in a humorous vein.

Fair play, my comment was inaccurate.

As for the Dresden bombing, it's something we should hold our hands up for and stop sweeping it under the carpet.

[Mibbes Aye]

Fair play, my comment was inaccurate.

As for the Dresden bombing, it's something we should hold our hands up for and stop sweeping it under the carpet.

I suppose that if you're holding your hands up then you're not actually capable of sweeping something under the carpet.

Unless you were standing on your hands while doing the sweeping.

But then, by holding them 'up' you would likely fall down, meaning that you wouldn't be able to sweep anything under the carpet as you would be lying on it.

Dash tricky thing, this diplomacy malarkey :agree:

[Future17]

I suppose that if you're holding your hands up then you're not actually capable of sweeping something under the carpet.

Unless you were standing on your hands while doing the sweeping.

But then, by holding them 'up' you would likely fall down, meaning that you wouldn't be able to sweep anything under the carpet as you would be lying on it.

Dash tricky thing, this diplomacy malarkey :agree:

What if you were on a set of stairs and the carpet was on a higher level?

That would allow you to both hold your hands up and sweep something under the carpet.

[Mibbes Aye]

What if you were on a set of stairs and the carpet was on a higher level?

That would allow you to both hold your hands up and sweep something under the carpet.

Good point, well put :agree:

It's taken this thread a while but I think I can speak for us all when I say that I'm glad we've found a resolution to the thorny issue of how we should remember the war dead of all nations.......

- some sort of commemoration involving a brush (but no dustpan!) on a carpeted staircase in North Lanarkshire seems the appropriate means.

Job well done :agree:

[Hibercelona]

The Germans started the war, they brought it on themselves.

Reconciliation was only possible because we utterly defeated them and firebombing Dresden helped us do that.

The Germans didnt start the war. Those in power started the war, just like every other war that is started.

Back in those days people were forced to fight for their countries, they had no choice in the matter (this includes Germans). These days people are brainwashed with propaganda to make them think that they are fighting for a good cause.

A lot of people have died in wars all over the world and they never had a choice. These people should be respected, regardless of their nationality.

[Kevvy1875]

Interesting points here. Amazing the emotions a simple photo stirs up!

I think its correct to respect German dead from the war. The Wermacht in particular(Not the SS who were responsible for hideous crimes).

However....A quiet respect from afar is far enough. How Airdrie allowed this is very weird given their past reputation. You would think the club would want to distance itself from this kind of stuff.

I bear no grudge toward the German people for anything. Those wars were fought a long time ago. I think we can move on.

As for dresden? OTT by Harris? Yep, probably but we will never apologise and neither we should. It was the next step in the escalation of slaughter that happened in WW2. We took it, others took the previous steps. Self preservation caused that tragedy. No one set out thinking 'I want to kill 40,000 Germans'. If we were to apologise then where does it stop? Better for all parties to now accept that history is history and whilst it should never be forgotten it should be tolerated and forgiven.

Remembrance day as all veterans would agree is to honour the fallen from all conflicts wether they are friend or foe.

Peace, Lest we forget.

[Kevvy1875]

The Germans didnt start the war. Those in power started the war, just like every other war that is started.

Back in those days people were forced to fight for their countries, they had no choice in the matter (this includes Germans). These days people are brainwashed with propaganda to make them think that they are fighting for a good cause.

A lot of people have died in wars all over the world and they never had a choice. These people should be respected, regardless of their nationality.

:top marks

Correct. Even the recent war in iraq is an example of this. At the time I believed the government and am not ashamed to admit it. Now its clearly obvious that we have made a huge mistake. Although now that we have the wolf by the ears we dare not let go.

[Hibs On Tour]

Exactly. And it just so happens that this 'mistake' of printing a picture of men who are presumably heading of to fight on behalf of the 3rd riech, is made by a club which is followed by a group of nazi's.:crazy:

Was this not a photo of women from the British Legion feeding German prisoners of war? Be hard pushed to head off to fight for anyone once captured unless they all escaped of course! :greengrin

[Lucius Apuleius]

It also wasn't the SS, or indeed the Luftwaffe, who firebombed Dresden. And we remember the "arse holes" who did that.

Forces do nasty things in wars. Remembrance days are a chance to put it into perspective, and get some sort of reconciliation.

:agree:My Dad was in Bomber Command during the war (a tail gunner so lucky to survive it) so anybody wants to call him an "arse hole" I will be happy to meet and discuss.

[GloryGlory]

Interesting points here. Amazing the emotions a simple photo stirs up!

I think its correct to respect German dead from the war. The Wermacht in particular(Not the SS who were responsible for hideous crimes).
However....A quiet respect from afar is far enough. How Airdrie allowed this is very weird given their past reputation. You would think the club would want to distance itself from this kind of stuff.

I bear no grudge toward the German people for anything. Those wars were fought a long time ago. I think we can move on.

As for dresden? OTT by Harris? Yep, probably but we will never apologise and neither we should. It was the next step in the escalation of slaughter that happened in WW2. We took it, others took the previous steps. Self preservation caused that tragedy. No one set out thinking 'I want to kill 40,000 Germans'. If we were to apologise then where does it stop? Better for all parties to now accept that history is history and whilst it should never be forgotten it should be tolerated and forgiven.

Remembrance day as all veterans would agree is to honour the fallen from all conflicts wether they are friend or foe.

Peace, Lest we forget.

Without wanting to get into a protracted debate, historical evidence shows that the Wehrmacht's record of atrocities on the Eastern Front was at least as bad as the SS.

[BSEJVT]

:agree:My Dad was in Bomber Command during the war (a tail gunner so lucky to survive it) so anybody wants to call him an "arse hole" I will be happy to meet and discuss.

Quite ****ing right.

I would like to know specifically who the poster considered to be the ********s?

The Germans by their blitz made civilian bombing an unwelcome tactic of Modern War and continued to do it long after Dresden with the V2.

Dresden was a horrible event as were Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

I dont know whether Dresden had any military value as a target or not., but the most succesful defence policy of all has proven to be MAD.

Maybe Dresden was about saying do it to us and we will do it to you so dont try it on son.

There is also an argument about breaking the will of the civilian population to fight on in order to save more lives in the long term by shortening the war.

My father was heavily involved in the British Legion and through him and history I have a great respect for anyone who has served our country with honour.

Lets nor forget either that standing up for what was right cost Britain millions of lives over the course of 2 World Wars and its pre-eminent position in the world by bankrupting the country for no gain.

How many other countries in the world do you know would have stood up for the rights of others and borne that terrible burden.

Dont dare dishonour British war dead or veterans by calling them areseholes:grr:

[khib70]

:agree:My Dad was in Bomber Command during the war (a tail gunner so lucky to survive it) so anybody wants to call him an "arse hole" I will be happy to meet and discuss.
Good on him. The only "arse hole" was "Bomber" Harris who sent thousands of brave young men like your Dad to their deaths on carpet bombing missions of dubious military significance.

I'm sure you're very proud of him, and so you should be.

[CropleyWasGod]

Quite ****ing right.

I would like to know specifically who the poster considered to be the ********s?

The Germans by their blitz made civilian bombing an unwelcome tactic of Modern War and continued to do it long after Dresden with the V2.

Dresden was a horrible event as were Hiroshima & Nagasaki.

I dont know whether Dresden had any military value as a target or not., but the most succesful defence policy of all has proven to be MAD.

Maybe Dresden was about saying do it to us and we will do it to you so dont try it on son.

There is also an argument about breaking the will of the civilian population to fight on in order to save more lives in the long term by shortening the war.

My father was heavily involved in the British Legion and through him and history I have a great respect for anyone who has served our country with honour.

Lets nor forget either that standing up for what was right cost Britain millions of lives over the course of 2 World Wars and its pre-eminent position in the world by bankrupting the country for no gain.

How many other countries in the world do you know would have stood up for the rights of others and borne that terrible burden.

Dont dare dishonour British war dead or veterans by calling them areseholes:grr:

I take it you mean me. If you read my post, the a-word was in quotations. It specifically referenced the previous poster who called the Germans the same name for bombing innocent civilians, and thereby suggesting we shouldn't remember their dead.

It was not, repeat NOT, meant to be taken as my calling them that.

[BSEJVT]

I take it you mean me. If you read my post, the a-word was in quotations. It specifically referenced the previous poster who called the Germans the same name for bombing innocent civilians, and thereby suggesting we shouldn't remember their dead.

It was not, repeat NOT, meant to be taken as my calling them that.

Fair enough

Apologies

[CropleyWasGod]

Fair enough

Apologies

Accepted :agree:

[BSEJVT]

Good on him. The only "arse hole" was "Bomber" Harris who sent thousands of brave young men like your Dad to their deaths on carpet bombing missions of dubious military significance.

I'm sure you're very proud of him, and so you should be.

That's what brasses me off about revisionist history.

I fully accept there is a difference between good and evil and right and wrong.

But looking back at some of the great historical conflicts of all time who couldn't second guess someone motives or intentions or execution of the plan, even if it worked flawlessly in application.

Even now you say they are of "dubious" military significance.

50 odd years later people cant decide with the benefit of hindsight and far better intelligence whether they were or they weren't of military signiificance and yet people trample all over this particular individual's name.

Is it because he is an easy target, because the impact of his command is easier to see.

Is he more deserving of criticism than those who sent the BEF to France, the Canadians to Dieppe. The Anzacs to Anzio.

Aren't his superiors worthy of some condemnation for his actions if they were wrong?

Lazy journalism IMO jumped on by those looking to have a UK blame figure and selecting this guy as the target.

War is a horrible business, unfortunately not played by Marquis of Queensberry Rules

[richard_pitts]

That's what brasses me off about revisionist history.

I fully accept there is a difference between good and evil and right and wrong.

But looking back at some of the great historical conflicts of all time who couldn't second guess someone motives or intentions or execution of the plan, even if it worked flawlessly in application.

Even now you say they are of "dubious" military significance.

50 odd years later people cant decide with the benefit of hindsight and far better intelligence whether they were or they weren't of military signiificance and yet people trample all over this particular individual's name.

Is it because he is an easy target, because the impact of his command is easier to see.

Is he more deserving of criticism than those who sent the BEF to France, the Canadians to Dieppe. The Anzacs to Anzio.

Aren't his superiors worthy of some condemnation for his actions if they were wrong?

Lazy journalism IMO jumped on by those looking to have a UK blame figure and selecting this guy as the target.

War is a horrible business, unfortunately not played by Marquis of Queensberry Rules

Quite. History is very subjective as a rule. It's worth thinking about the 7/7 bombings - when I pointed out to some of the infiltrators from Kerrydale Street who were all saying how horrible it all was, that their side cheerfully killed Londonders, the response was "our cause was justified, theirs isn't". :bitchy: As I say, it's all subjective. Doesn't make it very nice though:agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Quite. History is very subjective as a rule. It's worth thinking about the 7/7 bombings - when I pointed out to some of the infiltrators from Kerrydale Street who were all saying how horrible it all was, that their side cheerfully killed Londonders, the response was "our cause was justified, theirs isn't". :bitchy: As I say, it's all subjective. Doesn't make it very nice though:agree:

:agree:


When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

[Keith_M]

I feel I need to add to the debate the following, definitive comment.


Germany is the home of some of the damn sexiest women on the planet.


There you go, nuff said, END OFF, etc.


:greengrin



Evidence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNh29xB90NU), an add for shower gel, now banned on german TV, dunno why :dunno:

[Dashing Bob S]

I feel I need to add to the debate the following, definitive comment.


Germany is the home of some of the damn sexiest women on the planet.


There you go, nuff said, END OFF, etc.

:greengrin


Evidence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNh29xB90NU), an add for shower gel, now banned on german TV, dunno why :dunno:

Ya vol:wink:

[--------]

Good on him. The only "arse hole" was "Bomber" Harris who sent thousands of brave young men like your Dad to their deaths on carpet bombing missions of dubious military significance.

I'm sure you're very proud of him, and so you should be.


That is an EXTREMELY superficial assessment of the RAF bombing campaign against the Third Reich. :bitchy:

BTW - he wasn't "Bomber" - his crews (who thought very highly of him as a commander) referred to him as "Butch" or "Butcher". This wasn't a reference to his attitude to the Germans; it was black humour relating to the loss-rate among Bomber Command crews. IMO it's a scandal that the British Government who ordered the raids refused to award a campaign medal to the bomber crews after the war - the only branch of the Forces to be passed over.

[Fantic]

Was this not a photo of women from the British Legion feeding German prisoners of war? Be hard pushed to head off to fight for anyone once captured unless they all escaped of course! :greengrin

:doh:

Ok. On their way back. :greengrin

[Steve-O]

Made the news in New Zealand? :faf:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/4357568/Scottish-football-club-red-faced-over-Nazi-image

[Phil D. Rolls]

Made the news in New Zealand? :faf:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/4357568/Scottish-football-club-red-faced-over-Nazi-image

Take it it's been a slow week at the sheep sales then?:greengrin

[The Green Goblin]

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And then we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.


It`s funny isn`t it - all the stuff that`s coming flying out on this thread, so what the hell, I`ll fly in too. I agree that there really shouldn`t have been anything wrong with that photo, but popular public judgmental mob mentality being what it is these days, I don`t think the chairman really had any choice but to say what he did.

A brief comment on FRolls` poem - This oft quoted figure of 6 million refers to the number of Jewish dead, however, when you take into account the true number killed in the Nazi camps, which includes many Eastern european peoples, mentally handicapped, gypsies, so-called designated "lesser peoples" and so on, the actual number is around 12 million, double the figure we always hear about.

I`m just wondering `out loud` as to why people generally never take the other 6 million into account and include them. Of course, whether it`s 1, or 6 or 12 million, it`s still utterly horrific and even bearing in mind the slightly uncomfortable feeling of dealing in generalised figures that are in the millions and refer to murdered people, I don`t mean to detract from that. Just asking the question. I have always wondered. Genuine question.

Plus, re: Filled Rolls` poem, there`s also Operation Paperclip to consider. Check it out - you couldn`t have made it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_paperclip

A classic tale from history - essentially, the U.S recruitment of Nazi murderers, scientists and war criminals, the very same people who had gassed the Jews and others in the camps and performed unspeakable experiments - stuff from your worst nightmares, absolutely unbelievable things - to help them win the space race.

One Giant Leap for Mankind indeed.

GG

[Phil D. Rolls]

It`s funny isn`t it - all the stuff that`s coming flying out on this thread, so what the hell, I`ll fly in too. I agree that there really shouldn`t have been anything wrong with that photo, but popular public judgmental mob mentality being what it is these days, I don`t think the chairman really had any choice but to say what he did.

A brief comment on FRolls` poem - This oft quoted figure of 6 million refers to the number of Jewish dead, however, when you take into account the true number killed in the Nazi camps, which includes many Eastern european peoples, mentally handicapped, gypsies, so-called designated "lesser peoples" and so on, the actual number is around 12 million, double the figure we always hear about.

I`m just wondering `out loud` as to why people generally never take the other 6 million into account and include them. Of course, whether it`s 1, or 6 or 12 million, it`s still utterly horrific and even bearing in mind the slightly uncomfortable feeling of dealing in generalised figures that are in the millions and refer to murdered people, I don`t mean to detract from that. Just asking the question. I have always wondered. Genuine question.

Plus, re: Filled Rolls` poem, there`s also Operation Paperclip to consider. Check it out - you couldn`t have made it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_paperclip

A classic tale from history - essentially, the U.S recruitment of Nazi murderers, scientists and war criminals, the very same people who had gassed the Jews and others in the camps and performed unspeakable experiments - stuff from your worst nightmares, absolutely unbelievable things - to help them win the space race.

One Giant Leap for Mankind indeed.

GG

I dont think you're suggesting I made that verse up, but for the record, can I just make it clear it was written by a much higher power than me?:greengrin

[The Green Goblin]

I dont think you're suggesting I made that verse up, but for the record, can I just make it clear it was written by a much higher power than me?:greengrin

There`s a higher power than you? :greengrin I need to revisit my understanding of the hierarchy of the universe as I know it. :wink:

GG

[Phil D. Rolls]

There`s a higher power than you? :greengrin I need to revisit my understanding of the hierarchy of the universe as I know it. :wink:

GG

Sorry, I could have maybe have been a bit more sensitive when I broke the news. :cool2: