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View Full Version : The green shoots of recovery?



hibhib7
12-11-2010, 09:42 AM
I don't want to get carried away, but Wednesday's result, followed by Derek Adams appointment, gives me hope that we are beginning to turn the corner. The infrastructure is now complete and we should be now looking for improvement in the playing staff. I believe Rod Petrie is due praise for assembling our new management team, whom I have great confidence in, but he must now give them the means to bring in players who will have pride in playing for the jersey every week and not just when they feel like it.

I can take being beat by Hearts, although it is painful, but cannot take the capitulation we have seen in too many games recently. Losing the first goal certainly makes a win more difficult but it is no excuse for throwing in the towel and I think people (including CC) place to much emphasis on it. Anyone in the side who played in that infamous game against Motherwell last season should be able to get their heads round the fact that failing to score first doesn't mean automatic defeat. I feel our manager should stress that to the players instead of going on about how important it is; that leads to negativity when we fail to open the scoring and also stops the fans from getting behind the team. I still long for the days when, no matter how many we were behind at half-time, we were confident about winning 'down the slope'.

Part/Time Supporter
12-11-2010, 09:46 AM
While taking your point about the downside of the "first goal is vital" mentality (ie that the heads can drop if it is conceded), I think in Hibs' present situation it is important to instill a bit of that. A major problem under Hughes latterly was that Hibs frequently took the lead in games and lost or drew them from winning positions. The discrepancy between the number of games where Hibs took the lead and the games they won under him is startling.

Both games against Ross County
Hearts (1-2 h)
Dundee Utd (2-4 h)
ICT (1-1 h)
Hamilton (1-1 h)
Motherwell (6-6)
Celtic (2-3 a)
St. Johnstone (1-1 h)

If Hibs had won even half of those games it is a reasonable bet that Hughes would still be in situ.

truehibernian
12-11-2010, 09:53 AM
Spoke with a Hearts coach recently and he said that you can physically see the confidence and moral ebb when Hibs concede first. Have to agree, he was bang on. One thing is that CC is trying to instill within the players that they are good enough, as long as they work hard for each other and not just for themselves.

If you look at the games so far, we have not carried the luck that we had at the start of last season. Last season, De Graaf's chance would have been buried v Gers, Riordan would have scored the pen v Caley, Ranks would have put us 1 up v Utd with only minutes to play. Even the cup game we could have gone two or three up inside the first 20 mins. That said, Hughes just did not have the whole team behind him and I think even the players got fed up of his rhetoric and constant cliches. Coupled with the fact I think the team are (were) unfit, it doesn't help in the last half hour of games when they are delicately poised and we played with no width, no shape and no concentration.

Delighted with the Rangers result, and hopefully we can follow it up with the same level of performannce and energy levels v Well. Let's just get fully behind them.

Phil D. Rolls
12-11-2010, 10:04 AM
I think it is too early to say. Looking at other results from Wednesday it could be that this is the point in the season when teams that have been going well maybe took their foot off the gas, whilst strugglers realised that they have to get their act together.

If we can pick up points in our next few games, then I think we may have turned a corner. It won't be straightforward though, and I think there will be setbacks. A team doesn't change overnight.

cockneymike
12-11-2010, 10:19 AM
There are a couple of things that give me hope:

I think the appointment of Adams is an excellent one, he will bring a confidence and a belief that comes from having been a success in his own right, that will help back up CC's own self belief. Also he has done particularly well in cups! He's been to 3 cup finals with RC apparently.

The shape looks better. Against both Utd and Rangers (unfortunately not in the game in between!) we had a fight and a dig about us that we've missed for a while. Both games we've played a 4-5-1; but with different players in each role, so CC has got a firm idea on how he wants it to look, but is still trying to figure out where everyone fits. However I think he's getting there, Murray as the holding player with Miller as the attacking/ creative CM could be a very strong combo IMHO.

We've got a clean sheet. I think this is crucial. Mark Brown must have been going mental, trying to get a clean sheet - Ibrox was his first in Hibs jersey! If you look at what pa broon did at Motherwell last year, after he took over he sorted out their defence and they got something like 10 clean sheets in 13 games at one point. As a result they caught up with us. We need to focus on this, stop the goals coming in, and then we can start to focus on them going in at the other end. With Deek playing should always be liable for one. We need others to step up though, as they did on Wednesday.

BSEJVT
12-11-2010, 10:30 AM
FWIW,

Tin hat firmly on

I think Riordan will struggle to get in any team playing that formation.

IMO he has been pretty poor this season and doesnt offer anything like enough playing the lone striker role.

cockneymike
12-11-2010, 10:33 AM
FWIW,

Tin hat firmly on

I think Riordan will struggle to get in any team playing that formation.

IMO he has been pretty poor this season and doesnt offer anything like enough playing the lone striker role.

But I don't think he'll be played as a lone striker. He has just about always played off someone else - either as a wide left midfielder (last season) or as an almost inside left/ in the hole (alongside O'Connor). This formation still will allow that I'd expect.

Expecting Rain
12-11-2010, 10:45 AM
Spoke with a Hearts coach recently and he said that you can physically see the confidence and moral ebb when Hibs concede first. Have to agree, he was bang on. One thing is that CC is trying to instill within the players that they are good enough, as long as they work hard for each other and not just for themselves.

If you look at the games so far, we have not carried the luck that we had at the start of last season. Last season, De Graaf's chance would have been buried v Gers, Riordan would have scored the pen v Caley, Ranks would have put us 1 up v Utd with only minutes to play. Even the cup game we could have gone two or three up inside the first 20 mins. That said, Hughes just did not have the whole team behind him and I think even the players got fed up of his rhetoric and constant cliches. Coupled with the fact I think the team are (were) unfit, it doesn't help in the last half hour of games when they are delicately poised and we played with no width, no shape and no concentration.

Delighted with the Rangers result, and hopefully we can follow it up with the same level of performannce and energy levels v Well. Let's just get fully behind them.

You make some excellent points as usual, especially regarding the fitness, i`ve lost count of the amount of times either myself or friends have commented on other teams being fitter, the biggest criticism of the team when things aren`t going well has been lack of effort, was that the case or was it indeed the way we trained? If your team is giving 100% regardless of the scoreline it is something that gives you hope for the oncoming fixtures, especially against sides where the quality factor is similar.
Should we find ourselves being 1 or 2 nil down we should still be driving on, that wasn`t evident, particularly against St Mirren when we went down 1-0 with half an hour to go and showed little in the way of response.
For what it is worth i`ve been impressed with Colin Calderwood, as regards his analysis and manner conducted during his short reign so far, hopefully we can pick up another three precious points on saturday, it won`t be easy.

mjhibby
12-11-2010, 10:50 AM
The thing that gives me great hope is firstly how poor other teams are in the spl and the fact that those who are well organised are getting results not so much their quality.lets face it this is the worst spl for a generation and hence the reason calderwood and now adams have joined hibs as they see a great opportunity and with the academy and stadium any management team who are progressing can take hibs to 3rd and (dreaming here)higher.
Hibs have been failing for a few reasons but principally(imho)because the set up of the team and squad has never been right.We have only one recocognised rb in hart and no lb(grounds is a ch playing at lb).There is no midfield enforcer and after most of us screaming for murray to be there calderwood plays him there and hey presto.We dont have a hold up cf as nish isnt the answer so hopefully our trykey could be the answer.The centre of defence hasnt been settled but as chick young says bamba is either brilliant as he was against rangers or crap against the so called lesser teams and doesnt concentrate.we miss zemmamma big time but setting up the team so miller can create instead of being in our third of the pitch will help.
Im not daft enough to think everything is sorted but the team has shown they can do it so now its up to the management and players to continue it.Calderwood has shown he sees problems and will try to fix them.The loss of stokes is a hindrance,to say the least,but getting deek playing where he will be dangerous will compensate.Im delighted with the appointment of adams and have to admit ive gone from the depths of despair to looking forward greatly to the games now and for that colin claderwood take a bow.He seems to have got great team spirit already and once duffy and zemmamma are back he will have much more flexibility.Realistically we are looking at 4th or 5th tops this season and i would gladly accept that just now but feel the new management team will bring the buzz back and know what is required to get results and maybe with adams on board a wee bet on that cup might be in order.
He cant of course get any players in until january (free agents aside)so lets get behind the team and im sure for once any january signings will significantly improve the squad.I think iw ill go and watch the highlights again.

cockneymike
12-11-2010, 10:59 AM
Hibs have been failing for a few reasons but principally(imho)because the set up of the team and squad has never been right.We have only one recocognised rb in hart and no lb(grounds is a ch playing at lb).There is no midfield enforcer and after most of us screaming for murray to be there calderwood plays him there and hey presto.We dont have a hold up cf as nish isnt the answer so hopefully our trykey could be the answer.The centre of defence hasnt been settled but as chick young says bamba is either brilliant as he was against rangers or crap against the so called lesser teams and doesnt concentrate.we miss zemmamma big time but setting up the team so miller can create instead of being in our third of the pitch will help.

:agree: Full back situation will be interesting come end of the season, with both booth and mccann back - some competition there perhaps?

matty_f
12-11-2010, 11:01 AM
It's too early to say if the recovery is on, though given that the performance against Rangers was night and day to anything we've seen from Hibs this year there are grounds for optimism.

Adams is (on the face of it) a very good appointment. He has a reputation for getting teams organised and making them work hard. Both things have been seriously missing from Hibs for too long.

The appointment of a fitness coach that Calderwood knows and respects will go some way to addressing another one of the persistent criticisms of this Hibs side. I don't think that Calderwood cares much if he puts a few noses out of joint with regard to what level of workload he's expecting in training, so another reason for optimism there.

We've got ourselves away (albeit marginally) from the bottom two spots and should take confidence from that.

The real test of character is whether this team can show the same levels of commitment and desire on Saturday to defeat Motherwell. If that happens, then I'll be very confident that the recovery is on.

Purehibee_MYB
12-11-2010, 11:04 AM
FWIW,

Tin hat firmly on

I think Riordan will struggle to get in any team playing that formation.

IMO he has been pretty poor this season and doesnt offer anything like enough playing the lone striker role.


Bit harsh to say hes been poor this season...the whole team has been up to now... In my opinion he has been vital in getting us the few points we have...Disappointed with his performance in the derby however...

On the fact we have turned the corner, I think Saturday is vital to this, as if we do manage to win that shows a full turn around almost, whereas right now it is one win which was very unexpected. All I am worried about is that the players will get complacent now and believe that if they play half as good as they did on Wednesday they will win tomorrow, which just won't happen, we need just as much commitment tomorrow as was shown against Rangers. Motherwell are doing very well away from home at the moment, and in all honest we can't really buy a win at home, so for us to 'turn the corner', a win tomorrow is vital.

BSEJVT
12-11-2010, 11:04 AM
But I don't think he'll be played as a lone striker. He has just about always played off someone else - either as a wide left midfielder (last season) or as an almost inside left/ in the hole (alongside O'Connor). This formation still will allow that I'd expect.

I dont think CC will go for that.

My initial expectation of CC is that he will make us hard to beat and have everyone working their ticket.

My guess is Riordan will be benched as he doesnt fulfill that role

Keith_M
12-11-2010, 01:14 PM
It's nice to have a positive glow after the game at Ibrox but one game does not a recovery make. I'm not trying to be awkward or overly negative, as I'm actually one of the more positive posters on here (not difficult, I admit). I'll reserve my opinion on whether we've turned the corner till at least after Christmas.



FWIW, the fact that we have the best squad outside of the OF should stand us in good stead :wink:




:singing:

"...walkin' along,
singin' this song,
walkin' in a Rankin Wonderland..."

:singing: