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smurf
07-11-2010, 10:41 PM
They have ultimate responsibility. Yes? No?

Twa Cairpets
07-11-2010, 10:44 PM
They have ultimate responsibility. Yes? No?

No.

Cropley10
07-11-2010, 10:46 PM
They have ultimate responsibility. Yes? No?

ReillyF5 will help you out Smurph, Albion Hibs too probably.

smurf
07-11-2010, 10:49 PM
Two Carpets... IF THEY don't have ULTIMATE responsibility who does?

Just that normally TOP MANAGEMENT does.

Sir Fred Goodwin I blame my local Bank Clerk....

Twa Cairpets
07-11-2010, 10:55 PM
Two Carpets... IF THEY don't have ULTIMATE responsibility who does?

Just that normally TOP MANAGEMENT does.

Sir Fred Goodwin I blame my local Bank Clerk....

Froma corporate point of view, yes, I suppose they do, but football is a unique business.

Either you want a board to get involved with the team a la romanov, or you want them to manage the business element. They do this well - the football side is down to the managers.

HFC 0-7
07-11-2010, 10:58 PM
Froma corporate point of view, yes, I suppose they do, but football is a unique business.

Either you want a board to get involved with the team a la romanov, or you want them to manage the business element. They do this well - the football side is down to the managers.

And who appoints the managers?

:bitchy::confused:

Twa Cairpets
07-11-2010, 11:09 PM
And who appoints the managers?

:bitchy::confused:

Not a single appointment the board hav emade could have been questioned on their credentials at the itm eof appointment. whether or not theyve been able to deliver on the football front has not been the issue of Petrie, regardless of how despondent we are at the moment.

Cropley10
07-11-2010, 11:12 PM
Not a single appointment the board hav emade could have been questioned on their credentials at the itm eof appointment. whether or not theyve been able to deliver on the football front has not been the issue of Petrie, regardless of how despondent we are at the moment.

John Collins had never managed anyone, nor had TM. Mixu had spent tons ay Cowdenbeath and then fannied around in Finland. Hughes was 45 minutes from the SFL.

Not one of them could claim to have real credentials - Funnily enough though they'd all played for Hibs (bar one).

Twa Cairpets
07-11-2010, 11:18 PM
John Collins had never managed anyone, nor had TM. Mixu had spent tons ay Cowdenbeath and then fannied around in Finland. Hughes was 45 minutes from the SFL.

Not one of them could claim to have real credentials - Funnily enough though they'd all played for Hibs (bar one).

The lack of managerial experince is neither here nor there when it comes to Hibs to be honest. We're just not big enough to automatically command a succesful, experinced manager.

TM worked superbly well, his football ethic was top class, and man management acknowledged to be the best weve had for years. Collins I think was a risk, but a calculate done given his obvious drive and playing pedigree. Mixu was the biggest question mark, but hughes has served his time on much more meagre resources and had reputation for good football. CC has a solid background.

smurf
07-11-2010, 11:39 PM
It doesn't matter If any appointment had the 'credentials' or not. They should be judged in the success of him or not.

Ozyhibby
08-11-2010, 12:20 AM
I'll have a go at defending the board.

They provide £4.8m per season to the manager for players. This is more than the complete turnover of the following clubs,
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Dundee Utd
St Mirren
Inverness
Hamilton
St Johnstone
It is also more than Aberdeen have for a wage bill.
Only Celtic, Rangers and Hearts spend more on Players.

The Blame lies with the managers who have spent the money very poorly.
Why Hughes was not interested in a proven quality midfielder like Hartley in the summer instead of the terrible Edwin de graaf is anyone guess.

Just Jimmy
08-11-2010, 12:37 AM
I'll have a go at defending the board.

They provide £4.8m per season to the manager for players. This is more than the complete turnover of the following clubs,
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Dundee Utd
St Mirren
Inverness
Hamilton
St Johnstone
It is also more than Aberdeen have for a wage bill.
Only Celtic, Rangers and Hearts spend more on Players.

The Blame lies with the managers who have spent the money very poorly.
Why Hughes was not interested in a proven quality midfielder like Hartley in the summer instead of the terrible Edwin de graaf is anyone guess.

If hartley had signed and had made a start like De Graff has then do you think he'd get away with 'Terrible' as a description? De Graff has a record, he's been rank but then so has the squad tbh.

Kaiser1962
08-11-2010, 08:24 AM
This is nonsense. Fred Goodwin presided over a company that almost took the country down.

12 months ago, when we were sitting two points of the top around xmas time, our board were a beacon of light and an example of how to run a football club. Now they are the most useless incompetent individuals and death is too good for them.

I reckon a lot of these comments are from Yam's on the windup.

hibs0666
08-11-2010, 08:39 AM
They have ultimate responsibility. Yes? No?

And they have just changed the management of the football department, so what's your point?

Kaiser1962
08-11-2010, 08:44 AM
And they have just changed the management of the football department, so what's your point?

A management change that a very vocal element of our support was screaming for and likely to do again very soon.

SaudiHibby
08-11-2010, 08:59 AM
I saw in Colin Calderwood's eyes yesterday a feeling of 'wtf have I done'. The club is absolutely rank rotten from its core. I just hope he has the balls to stay around to solve it (if he is allowed). As someone has already pointed out the buck stops at Farmer's door. Thanks for the nice shiny new stadium and the modern training centre Tom but it's time to roll your sleeves up and sort out this club from the ground up. If players are refusing to train or think they are billy big bollocks or are out drinking most nights, tell them to leave. If Directors are swanning around with no real value added, tell them to leave. If CC has to put 8 men out next week because of it so be it. Show us you are the man everyone tells us you are. If you haven't got the stomach for it find someone who has.

:grr::grr::grr::grr:

Beefster
08-11-2010, 09:32 AM
They have ultimate responsibility. Yes? No?

If they don't back Calderwood properly and allow him to mould the club, top to bottom, as he sees fit then yes, they'll have to take responsibility. It's time for them to step up to the plate, take risks to secure our place in the SPL and come up with a plan to allow increased investment in the playing side, if that's what Calderwood needs.

I don't want to hear about the stadium, training facilities or even how much the players are enjoying their training until the club, from the Chairman to the Manager to the charlatans on the pitch to the folk that sweep the floor sort that club out.

Cropley10
08-11-2010, 09:45 AM
I'll have a go at defending the board.

They provide £4.8m per season to the manager for players. This is more than the complete turnover of the following clubs,
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Dundee Utd
St Mirren
Inverness
Hamilton
St Johnstone
It is also more than Aberdeen have for a wage bill.
Only Celtic, Rangers and Hearts spend more on Players.

The Blame lies with the managers who have spent the money very poorly.
Why Hughes was not interested in a proven quality midfielder like Hartley in the summer instead of the terrible Edwin de graaf is anyone guess.

Incorrect. And another popular myth on here.

Our wages bill includes everyone on the payroll including the Board, staff and players.

We pay peanuts to players.

Cropley10
08-11-2010, 09:47 AM
A management change that a very vocal element of our support was screaming for and likely to do again very soon.

You might be screaming for a change but I'm not. I think it's suspicious and disingenous to start suggesting this to be honest.

jdships
08-11-2010, 09:48 AM
If they don't back Calderwood properly and allow him to mould the club, top to bottom, as he sees fit then yes, they'll have to take responsibility. It's time for them to step up to the plate, take risks to secure our place in the SPL and come up with a plan to allow increased investment in the playing side, if that's what Calderwood needs.

I don't want to hear about the stadium, training facilities or even how much the players are enjoying their training until the club, from the Chairman to the Manager to the charlatans on the pitch to the folk that sweep the floor sort that club out.



Thankyou for some common sense !!!!!!!:top marks

Beefster
08-11-2010, 09:48 AM
Incorrect. And another popular myth on here.

Our wages bill includes everyone on the payroll including the Board, staff and players.

We pay peanuts to players.

I'd still wager that we have the highest player wage bill outside the three mentioned. Whether it's enough is a different matter but almost everyone else in the SPL is having to cut their cloth to deal with huge debts.

Cropley10
08-11-2010, 09:55 AM
I'd still wager that we have the highest player wage bill outside the three mentioned. Whether it's enough is a different matter but almost everyone else in the SPL is having to cut their cloth to deal with huge debts.

You may well be right. I've no idea what the player budget is and nor does anyone else on here frankly.

But you have to wonder how Motherwell, cr@p stadium, nae money and god-knows-what training facilities do so well then. Some decent players in that team but not in ours...

truehibernian
08-11-2010, 10:01 AM
Incorrect. And another popular myth on here.

Our wages bill includes everyone on the payroll including the Board, staff and players.

We pay peanuts to players.

No we don't.

We have three goalkeepers on nearly top whack. One has been injured most of his Hibs career, yet still finds the time to have a wee night out to himself "recuperating".

The younger players are not on "footballers salaries", but there is the obvious reason for that. There are some very very good salaries and bonus' available for Hibs players. Peanuts is so far from the truth it's untrue.

The problem at Hibernian is that we have well paid players doing very little and showing little effort. For the combined salaries of Hogg, Smith, Stack, Thicot, Rankin, De Graaf and Trakys, we could get in 3 or 4 quality players as opposed to 7 or 8 average at best ones. Then supplement the team with players like Wotherspoon, Welsh, Byrne, Booth and Handling and you have balance and a dynamic.

How much do you think the likes of Murray Davidson and Prince Bauban get paid ? Would you have them at Hibs ? I can guarantee they get paid far less than even the most average of our "stars".

Cropley10
08-11-2010, 10:18 AM
No we don't.

We have three goalkeepers on nearly top whack. One has been injured most of his Hibs career, yet still finds the time to have a wee night out to himself "recuperating".

The younger players are not on "footballers salaries", but there is the obvious reason for that. There are some very very good salaries and bonus' available for Hibs players. Peanuts is so far from the truth it's untrue.

The problem at Hibernian is that we have well paid players doing very little and showing little effort. For the combined salaries of Hogg, Smith, Stack, Thicot, Rankin, De Graaf and Trakys, we could get in 3 or 4 quality players as opposed to 7 or 8 average at best ones. Then supplement the team with players like Wotherspoon, Welsh, Byrne, Booth and Handling and you have balance and a dynamic.

How much do you think the likes of Murray Davidson and Prince Bauban get paid ? Would you have them at Hibs ? I can guarantee they get paid far less than even the most average of our "stars".

So what's top whack for a goal-keeper? Not being smart, curious.

My understanding is that we have players on hundreds, not thousands, per week.

I'd love to know what MD and PB are on, as they'd offer some quality and value for money, something that's really lacking.

My point is that I don't believe Hibs pay well - evidenced by the standard of player we have broadly.

Ray_
08-11-2010, 10:39 AM
You may well be right. I've no idea what the player budget is and nor does anyone else on here frankly.

But you have to wonder how Motherwell, cr@p stadium, nae money and god-knows-what training facilities do so well then. Some decent players in that team but not in ours...

You don't have to wonder that too much, we have sold almost every good player we have had.

Part/Time Supporter
08-11-2010, 10:51 AM
No we don't.

We have three goalkeepers on nearly top whack. One has been injured most of his Hibs career, yet still finds the time to have a wee night out to himself "recuperating".

The younger players are not on "footballers salaries", but there is the obvious reason for that. There are some very very good salaries and bonus' available for Hibs players. Peanuts is so far from the truth it's untrue.

The problem at Hibernian is that we have well paid players doing very little and showing little effort. For the combined salaries of Hogg, Smith, Stack, Thicot, Rankin, De Graaf and Trakys, we could get in 3 or 4 quality players as opposed to 7 or 8 average at best ones. Then supplement the team with players like Wotherspoon, Welsh, Byrne, Booth and Handling and you have balance and a dynamic.

How much do you think the likes of Murray Davidson and Prince Bauban get paid ? Would you have them at Hibs ? I can guarantee they get paid far less than even the most average of our "stars".

:agree:

http://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/newsitemsdetail.php?param=991

St. Johnstone's total turnover for 2009/10 was £4M, less than Hibs' wage bill, and they just about broke even. Once you strip out their overheads and other costs, their player budget will be less than half of Hibs (probably nearer a third).

Cropley10
08-11-2010, 10:52 AM
You don't have to wonder that too much, we have sold almost every good player we have had.

So who's left that's worth anything :dunno:

ahibby
08-11-2010, 10:52 AM
The signs were there a long time ago when John Collins resigned the day after East Mains was opened. That told me there was something wrong at board level. JC wasn't happy with the board because players were allowed to go over his head and also because the board would only sanction players who were third, fourth or fifth on his list for positions. It seems to me that Mixu has been allowed to bring in better players to Kilmarnock than he was at Hibs. Even I with my limited knowledge of managers felt from the out set that JH wasn't the right choice and the Hibs performances (not results) confirmed my feelings from the outset. There is something not right but it might be just a case of trial and error. If CC can get it right where JC, Mixu and JH didn't then the board will be redeemed, if he doesn't get it right then yesterdays frustration aimed at them in the West Stand will seem like a pat on the back.

Part/Time Supporter
08-11-2010, 10:53 AM
You don't have to wonder that too much, we have sold almost every good player we have had.

Motherwell (the example used) also sell or lose to free agency every good player they have. That's just the way it is now with Bosman.

The issue is when you lose the player that you make a reasonably good effort to replace him. Motherwell lost Jim O'Brien on a bosman to Barnsley this summer, they haven't missed him because Chris Humphrey has come in and performed well. Hibs' efforts to replace the players they have lost over the last few years have been pisspoor in the main.

WindyMiller
08-11-2010, 10:55 AM
So what's top whack for a goal-keeper? Not being smart, curious.

My understanding is that we have players on hundreds, not thousands, per week.

I'd love to know what MD and PB are on, as they'd offer some quality and value for money, something that's really lacking.

My point is that I don't believe Hibs pay well - evidenced by the standard of player we have broadly.


This site should answer most of your questions.

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

Cropley10
08-11-2010, 10:58 AM
The signs were there a long time ago when John Collins resigned the day after East Mains was opened. That told me there was something wrong at board level. JC wasn't happy with the board because players were allowed to go over his head and also because the board would only sanction players who were third, fourth or fifth on his list for positions. It seems to me that Mixu has been allowed to bring in better players to Kilmarnock than he was at Hibs. Even I with my limited knowledge of managers felt from the out set that JH wasn't the right choice and the Hibs performances (not results) confirmed my feelings from the outset. There is something not right but it might be just a case of trial and error. If CC can get it right where JC, Mixu and JH didn't then the board will be redeemed, if he doesn't get it right then yesterdays frustration aimed at them in the West Stand will seem like a pat on the back.

:agree::agree::agree: This board is ploarised between people who think like you do above and those who think our board are brilliant and that there's a long term plan at Hibs.

There are of course a helluva lot of undercover Yams who will wholeheartedly agree with the second part above.

Frankly we've been watching cr@p football for far too long. And to keep doing the same thing whilst expecting a different outcome is a sign of madness.

We're rubbish - because we've signed inexperienced managers who have wasted the player budget, whilst the Board have sold quality players and replaced them with no-bodies. To claim otherwise flies in the face of logic and the evidence of what we see week in and week out.

hibs0666
08-11-2010, 02:49 PM
This site should answer most of your questions.

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/spl/

Good comparables here too...

http://www.pwc.co.uk/scotland/publications/the_21st_annual_financial_review_of_scottish_premi er_league_football.html

Employee cost comparisons for all clubs can be found on page 24.

truehibernian
08-11-2010, 02:54 PM
This season is very similar to years ago when we were languishing, playing poor football and really staring into an abyss.

The then board signed Murdo McLeod and we also signed Keith Wright that season too IIRC. Gave the whole side, fans included, a lift. A direction. Bit of leadership too.

In January perhaps the Board should this season consider slight debt (or a wee loan from Sir Tom :wink:). Two marquee signings (or rated signings), wee Zemmama back in action, Duffy extended on a loan........who knows.

Then in summer we can have the mass expected exodus and rebuild.

Phil D. Rolls
08-11-2010, 02:56 PM
This season is very similar to years ago when we were languishing, playing poor football and really staring into an abyss.

The then board signed Murdo McLeod and we also signed Keith Wright that season too IIRC. Gave the whole side, fans included, a lift. A direction. Bit of leadership too.

In January perhaps the Board should this season consider slight debt (or a wee loan from Sir Tom :wink:). Two marquee signings (or rated signings), wee Zemmama back in action, Duffy extended on a loan........who knows.

Then in summer we can have the mass expected exodus and rebuild.

Keith Wright came later and his fee was paid by selling Paul Wright, not by a board bail out.

blackpoolhibs
08-11-2010, 02:57 PM
I'll have a go at defending the board.

They provide £4.8m per season to the manager for players. This is more than the complete turnover of the following clubs,
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Dundee Utd
St Mirren
Inverness
Hamilton
St Johnstone
It is also more than Aberdeen have for a wage bill.
Only Celtic, Rangers and Hearts spend more on Players.

The Blame lies with the managers who have spent the money very poorly.


:top marks:agree:

truehibernian
08-11-2010, 03:01 PM
Keith Wright came later and his fee was paid by selling Paul Wright, not by a board bail out.

I thought it was an initial loan given by STF that paid for the both of them. Stand corrected though mate.

Kaiser1962
08-11-2010, 03:50 PM
I thought it was an initial loan given by STF that paid for the both of them. Stand corrected though mate.

That was my take on it.

Beefster
08-11-2010, 05:03 PM
Keith Wright came later and his fee was paid by selling Paul Wright, not by a board bail out.

Fees brought in by selling players being used to replace them? If only.

Phil D. Rolls
08-11-2010, 05:46 PM
I thought it was an initial loan given by STF that paid for the both of them. Stand corrected though mate.


That was my take on it.

I know Keith came at the start of 91 - 92 and it was a day or so after Paul went to St Johnstone. I've always assumed the two things were connected - but it could've been money that Farmer had set aside.

It would be good if someone could say for certain, in all honesty I'm not sure.


Fees brought in by selling players being used to replace them? If only.

That was in the days when there was a transfer market.

Kaiser1962
08-11-2010, 05:51 PM
I know Keith came at the start of 91 - 92 and it was a day or so after Paul went to St Johnstone. I've always assumed the two things were connected - but it could've been money that Farmer had set aside.

It would be good if someone could say for certain, in all honesty I'm not sure.



That was in the days when there was a transfer market.

I,m not sure the sequence of events but I do know that Alex Miller phoned Tom at the time to see the go ahead for signing Keith Wright. Basically it was to sell the transfer to Tom. There was a bit of a silence before Tom gave the go ahead. I have to add that Tom Farmer had never heard of Keith Wright :greengrin

Where the money came from I dont know

Ray_
08-11-2010, 05:53 PM
So who's left that's worth anything :dunno:

I never said that we sold almost every player who was worth something, I said that we had sold almost all the good players that we had.

FWIW, I still think DR is a good player & he is a player who would be a lot better than he is now, with better players around him. He is not worth a lot, which is down to his contract being almost out.

sesoim
08-11-2010, 06:52 PM
The lack of managerial experince is neither here nor there when it comes to Hibs to be honest. We're just not big enough to automatically command a succesful, experinced manager.

TM worked superbly well, his football ethic was top class, and man management acknowledged to be the best weve had for years. Collins I think was a risk, but a calculate done given his obvious drive and playing pedigree. Mixu was the biggest question mark, but hughes has served his time on much more meagre resources and had reputation for good football. CC has a solid background.


Jimmy Calderwood? And besides, if we can't afford a decent experienced manager, then how come most other SPL clubs usually CAN?

I think it's more down to snobbery on the boards part - especially the latest appointment. They've veered towards ex-players and ex-Scotland internationals and ignored managers that may not have had significant playing careers, but have good careers in management. An Ian Holloway type would have been ideal for us at this time, a motivator who likes to play football and can pick up bargains. I'll reserve judgement on CC but things I've heard and read (and already knew when he was sacked at Notts Forest) don't fill me with ANY encouragement.

And he is probably earning a lot more than the other Calderwoood would have.

PaulSmith
08-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Incorrect. And another popular myth on here.

Our wages bill includes everyone on the payroll including the Board, staff and players.

We pay peanuts to players.

So take off what, £750k? How does that compare

sesoim
08-11-2010, 07:01 PM
I'll have a go at defending the board.

They provide £4.8m per season to the manager for players. This is more than the complete turnover of the following clubs,
Kilmarnock
Motherwell
Dundee Utd
St Mirren
Inverness
Hamilton
St Johnstone
It is also more than Aberdeen have for a wage bill.
Only Celtic, Rangers and Hearts spend more on Players.

The Blame lies with the managers who have spent the money very poorly.
Why Hughes was not interested in a proven quality midfielder like Hartley in the summer instead of the terrible Edwin de graaf is anyone guess.


I agree the managers have been poor. But again, who appointed THEM. The people on the board don't know their football, and have made some stupid appointments. But the latest one has to be the worst because CC comes with an iffy track record and yet is probably going to cost us a lot of money.

BEEJ
08-11-2010, 07:19 PM
So take off what, £750k? How does that compare
£493k on the Directors alone last year.

Around 30 Commercial staff over and above that. And the Coaching staff. Then there's the U-19s' modest wage budget to deduct.

Bit more than £750k.

IWasThere2016
08-11-2010, 07:24 PM
Oz - the Board don't provide the £4.8m the fans do .. Along with the £0.5m for the Board per annum.

That said the repeated failings of the managers with funds is poor also.

Only Tony Mowbray can say he signed better than we had more often than not and he also provided a decent return - on his own move also - on signings for the wages paid.

euro Hibby
08-11-2010, 07:27 PM
Hibs turnover is around 7 million which is a small number and not enough to attract big names, so we end up with first timers needing to cut their teeth in management. It works sometimes and sometimes it does not.

Hibs will have a mission statement which probably states that the club needs to be run like a business with profit and loss a top issue. Tom Farmer has loads of cash but he is not fool enough to throw it after a Scottish football team.

Over the road its worse, huge debt and a team which might get 3rd or 4th place at a considerable loss. The owners plan might be to jump ship not an issue at Easter road.

I would like to see what the 8 or 9 mangers we have had in the past have cost when it was time to tear up their contracts so in that sense we could have done better.

You have to remember also the past, huge debt and some grim football. Rod was good and lucky because he was able to turn it around but when you have been through that experience you are always looking over your shoulder.

I would have sacked yogi last February. Most of the suporters on the Hibs net would not have and i think there are polls to confirm this.

MOst of the boards appoitments have been accepted by the fans so the board is hardly to blame. They look after the money side of things and the manager looks after the playing side. The books are in ok shape but the product is not and thats the issue which is down to the manager and his team.

THey have made changes so its not through neglect that we face todays situation. Sure they could have done better but thats hindsight.

Personally I have no issues with the board. Its hard to run a business in the public eye with so little money. Hibs have had good players for the last 4-5 years and sold them on to do other things. The barrel is a bit empty now and we might need a couple of years to get back into gear.

HFC 0-7
08-11-2010, 07:44 PM
So take off what, £750k? How does that compare

Not sure about last years accounts but the previous years accounts showed we spent the 5th largest amounf of money on staff costs. The cost of the board was around 500K, petrie accounting for a little over 100K of that.

What I would say is that although we are spending the 5th most amount of money on staff we pay the most to our board in terms of board wages vs total wages (around 11%, the next highest club is Aberdeen at around 4%). I think the question is, in footballing terms, are the wages the board are receiving reflective of what the club is achieving? IMO, Petrie has done his job in terms of finances. He is great at gathering money together for projects such as training centres and stands, however, I dont see a good job being done with managers and players, which ultimately he controls.

blackpoolhibs
08-11-2010, 08:51 PM
Hibs turnover is around 7 million which is a small number and not enough to attract big names, so we end up with first timers needing to cut their teeth in management. It works sometimes and sometimes it does not.

Hibs will have a mission statement which probably states that the club needs to be run like a business with profit and loss a top issue. Tom Farmer has loads of cash but he is not fool enough to throw it after a Scottish football team.

Over the road its worse, huge debt and a team which might get 3rd or 4th place at a considerable loss. The owners plan might be to jump ship not an issue at Easter road.

I would like to see what the 8 or 9 mangers we have had in the past have cost when it was time to tear up their contracts so in that sense we could have done better.

You have to remember also the past, huge debt and some grim football. Rod was good and lucky because he was able to turn it around but when you have been through that experience you are always looking over your shoulder.

I would have sacked yogi last February. Most of the suporters on the Hibs net would not have and i think there are polls to confirm this.

MOst of the boards appoitments have been accepted by the fans so the board is hardly to blame. They look after the money side of things and the manager looks after the playing side. The books are in ok shape but the product is not and thats the issue which is down to the manager and his team.

THey have made changes so its not through neglect that we face todays situation. Sure they could have done better but thats hindsight.

Personally I have no issues with the board. Its hard to run a business in the public eye with so little money. Hibs have had good players for the last 4-5 years and sold them on to do other things. The barrel is a bit empty now and we might need a couple of years to get back into gear.

Sack him when we were 2 points off 2nd place.

euro Hibby
09-11-2010, 08:22 AM
not when we were two points of the top. Sometime during the run when we could-nt win anymore........the time when his after game comments were contradicting what he was trying to do and when he was showing inability to change a game in progress. Easy to say now I know, but personally I think he should have gone before he did. But thats heresay and unimportant.

Ray_
09-11-2010, 09:00 AM
Hibs turnover is around 7 million which is a small number and not enough to attract big names, so we end up with first timers needing to cut their teeth in management. It works sometimes and sometimes it does not.

Hibs will have a mission statement which probably states that the club needs to be run like a business with profit and loss a top issue. Tom Farmer has loads of cash but he is not fool enough to throw it after a Scottish football team.

Over the road its worse, huge debt and a team which might get 3rd or 4th place at a considerable loss. The owners plan might be to jump ship not an issue at Easter road.

I would like to see what the 8 or 9 mangers we have had in the past have cost when it was time to tear up their contracts so in that sense we could have done better.

You have to remember also the past, huge debt and some grim football. Rod was good and lucky because he was able to turn it around but when you have been through that experience you are always looking over your shoulder.

I would have sacked yogi last February. Most of the suporters on the Hibs net would not have and i think there are polls to confirm this.

MOst of the boards appoitments have been accepted by the fans so the board is hardly to blame. They look after the money side of things and the manager looks after the playing side. The books are in ok shape but the product is not and thats the issue which is down to the manager and his team.

THey have made changes so its not through neglect that we face todays situation. Sure they could have done better but thats hindsight.

Personally I have no issues with the board. Its hard to run a business in the public eye with so little money. Hibs have had good players for the last 4-5 years and sold them on to do other things. The barrel is a bit empty now and we might need a couple of years to get back into gear.

If Hibs gave the fans what they want, the turnover would be far more than the 7M you quoted. They done well to capitalise TM's time here, bringing in bundles of money, from all area's of the business, however, the way we are going now, turnover can only slip even further than it has done already & in any business that strongly suggests the board are not doing a good job.

blackpoolhibs
09-11-2010, 09:56 AM
not when we were two points of the top. Sometime during the run when we could-nt win anymore........the time when his after game comments were contradicting what he was trying to do and when he was showing inability to change a game in progress. Easy to say now I know, but personally I think he should have gone before he did. But thats heresay and unimportant.

Thats where we were in February?:confused:

Speedway
09-11-2010, 10:18 AM
You may well be right. I've no idea what the player budget is and nor does anyone else on here frankly.

But you have to wonder how Motherwell, cr@p stadium, nae money and god-knows-what training facilities do so well then. Some decent players in that team but not in ours...

Player budget reportedly increased by £100,000 per transfer window for 5 straight years. Enough for a Michael Hart every window, except we sign 5 players with that money.


The signs were there a long time ago when John Collins resigned the day after East Mains was opened. That told me there was something wrong at board level. JC wasn't happy with the board because players were allowed to go over his head and also because the board would only sanction players who were third, fourth or fifth on his list for positions. It seems to me that Mixu has been allowed to bring in better players to Kilmarnock than he was at Hibs. Even I with my limited knowledge of managers felt from the out set that JH wasn't the right choice and the Hibs performances (not results) confirmed my feelings from the outset. There is something not right but it might be just a case of trial and error. If CC can get it right where JC, Mixu and JH didn't then the board will be redeemed, if he doesn't get it right then yesterdays frustration aimed at them in the West Stand will seem like a pat on the back.

Emerenko would come in handy in the Hibs midfield right now.


:agree::agree::agree: This board is ploarised between people who think like you do above and those who think our board are brilliant and that there's a long term plan at Hibs.

There are of course a helluva lot of undercover Yams who will wholeheartedly agree with the second part above.

Frankly we've been watching cr@p football for far too long. And to keep doing the same thing whilst expecting a different outcome is a sign of madness.

We're rubbish - because we've signed inexperienced managers who have wasted the player budget, whilst the Board have sold quality players and replaced them with no-bodies. To claim otherwise flies in the face of logic and the evidence of what we see week in and week out.

Now we can't have this both ways. Either the board signed the no-bodies or the managers did. Either way, whoever we've sold was a nobody when they joined Hibs.


This season is very similar to years ago when we were languishing, playing poor football and really staring into an abyss.

The then board signed Murdo McLeod and we also signed Keith Wright that season too IIRC. Gave the whole side, fans included, a lift. A direction. Bit of leadership too.

In January perhaps the Board should this season consider slight debt (or a wee loan from Sir Tom :wink:). Two marquee signings (or rated signings), wee Zemmama back in action, Duffy extended on a loan........who knows.

Then in summer we can have the mass expected exodus and rebuild.

Duffy's contract ends at the end of his loan with Hibs. We've effectively taken over the remainder of his deal with Bristol Rovers

Cropley10
09-11-2010, 10:44 AM
not when we were two points of the top. Sometime during the run when we could-nt win anymore........the time when his after game comments were contradicting what he was trying to do and when he was showing inability to change a game in progress. Easy to say now I know, but personally I think he should have gone before he did. But thats heresay and unimportant.

I'd sack him when we're 6-2 up away from home and we draw 6 all.

euro Hibby
09-11-2010, 10:48 AM
To Ray in Ireland / hearts went into deep debt giving the supporters what they wanted, apart from a stadium, and i believe their best turnover was 10 or 11 million tops.

The board have done half the job in correcting the ship however on the football side off course they could have hoped to have done better. Point is all the managers were approved by the supporters and all the managers , excluding Collins , have reported to be happy with their boards support.

There are mistakes. Yogi got a budget , which he spent badly and was sacked a few weeks later. Probably should not have been given any budget and sacked prior.

Regretably, we can see the tangibles, ie the accounts but as fans we don-t get a good picture of whats going on behind the scenes. MOst of us knew Hibs were up against it Saturday, with our midget midfield and limited football ability. High balls to Riordan were never likely to work. Hearts however have been for a few years big and physical and we lose out more than we win.

Point is , the board are not free from blame, but they have done a good job in other areas and we will see know if they can do the next task which is to get the football side much better.

Ray_
09-11-2010, 11:12 AM
To Ray in Ireland / hearts went into deep debt giving the supporters what they wanted, apart from a stadium, and i believe their best turnover was 10 or 11 million tops.

The board have done half the job in correcting the ship however on the football side off course they could have hoped to have done better. Point is all the managers were approved by the supporters and all the managers , excluding Collins , have reported to be happy with their boards support.

There are mistakes. Yogi got a budget , which he spent badly and was sacked a few weeks later. Probably should not have been given any budget and sacked prior.

Regretably, we can see the tangibles, ie the accounts but as fans we don-t get a good picture of whats going on behind the scenes. MOst of us knew Hibs were up against it Saturday, with our midget midfield and limited football ability. High balls to Riordan were never likely to work. Hearts however have been for a few years big and physical and we lose out more than we win.

Point is , the board are not free from blame, but they have done a good job in other areas and we will see know if they can do the next task which is to get the football side much better.

The board have done the easy bit so far, they have sold assetts for cash that went to pay off debt & build the infrastructure, the serious hard bit is providing a product that'll take off & so far they have seriously failed, the fare on offer the last three years has been dire.

Phil D. Rolls
09-11-2010, 11:44 AM
Jimmy Calderwood? And besides, if we can't afford a decent experienced manager, then how come most other SPL clubs usually CAN?

I think it's more down to snobbery on the boards part - especially the latest appointment. They've veered towards ex-players and ex-Scotland internationals and ignored managers that may not have had significant playing careers, but have good careers in management. An Ian Holloway type would have been ideal for us at this time, a motivator who likes to play football and can pick up bargains. I'll reserve judgement on CC but things I've heard and read (and already knew when he was sacked at Notts Forest) don't fill me with ANY encouragement.

And he is probably earning a lot more than the other Calderwoood would have.

If I shook hands with Jimmy Calderwood I'd count my fingers after it. It looks to me like he leaves every club in financial trouble after he's left.