Was miller as bad as we thought?

[ozwoody]

Looking back at "the team that was" made me think bout the Miller years,and to be honest the majority of us never knew what was happening behind closed doors until mercer started the takeover bid,but the staff did.

So my question is,considering how down the whole club was in the years before 1990,not knowing if they had job the following week,shouldnt we praise Miller for stabilising the team in the worst era in living memory?

I know the football was dire,with so the attitude of "if they dont score,we wont get beat" but what could we expect knowing now what had happened?

And the fact he could entice the likes of goram, keith,murdo and budgie to club during those dark times must speak volumes for his management skills.

I,for one,look back now and see a manager that worked under terrible pressure,from board and fans,lifted himself above it,and gave me one of the best days of my life taking a team to hampden and winning the cup.

just my opinion

Alex Miller :notworthy:

[Jack]

Alex Miller should never have been Hibs manager.

[Big Frank]

Looking back at "the team that was" made me think bout the Miller years,and to be honest the majority of us never knew what was happening behind closed doors until mercer started the takeover bid,but the staff did.

So my question is,considering how down the whole club was in the years before 1990,not knowing if they had job the following week,shouldnt we praise Miller for stabilising the team in the worst era in living memory?

I know the football was dire,with so the attitude of "if they dont score,we wont get beat" but what could we expect knowing now what had happened?

And the fact he could entice the likes of goram, keith,murdo and budgie to club during those dark times must speak volumes for his management skills.

I,for one,look back now and see a manager that worked under terrible pressure,from board and fans,lifted himself above it,and gave me one of the best days of my life taking a team to hampden and winning the cup.

just my opinion

Alex Miller :notworthy:

Miller had some great players and good teams. My family knew one of his neighbours when he was at Hibs and he ate, slept and farted hibs in his time.

He was a hun which pissed of some of the ould Hibbies in the stands.

He isn't as fondly remembered as he should be. This is due to his derby record.

[Twa Cairpets]

Yes, pretty much.

[scott7_0(Prague)]

Alex Miller should never have been Hibs manager.

Why's that then Jack?

[Speedway]

Whilst history has yet to afford Lexo much credit despite some incredible achievements, his derby record and performances stand as a lasting legacy against him.

[Killiehibbie]

Yes, pretty much.

Even worse at times. Away days were particularly brutal.

[ozwoody]

Alex Miller should never have been Hibs manager.

Maybe age has made me realise the input he had at our club,but if your work was in constant danger of being taken over,would your focus be on your employer?

Miller and the team had that over them all the time,yet they,and the manager,fought for each other,and delivered us the league cup.

Fair enough,derby record very poor,but hearts did have a very strong team at that time.

I have never heard of any player involved doubting Miller as a manager,and he was successful at liverpool as assisstant too.

I just think we never realised the pressure he and the players were under at the time,and to win cup was amazing feat for all involved

[MrSmith]

Football was murder, he got rid of good folk around him when they voiced an opinion or had bigger ideas (Roughie, Perter Cormack, Murdo McLeod and Steve Archibald) he also had no social etiquette when dealing with fans or players very unfortunate dour man. Had no pleasure in speaking with him once. He had no time for me nor wanted to speak.

His record will speak for itself, we were never anything and as I recall... I was there throughout all of his tenure, both home and away, we would end up either lower end of the table or teetering on the brink of relegation. In-fact, reconstruction saved us from relegation one year.

No thank you don't want to see his like again, although, I have a feeling our new manager might just be like him.

[ozwoody]

Football was murder, he got rid of good folk around him when they voiced an opinion or had bigger ideas (Roughie, Perter Cormack, Murdo McLeod and Steve Archibald) he also had no social etiquette when dealing with fans or players very unfortunate dour man. Had no pleasure in speaking with him once. He had no time for me nor wanted to speak.

His record will speak for itself, we were never anything and as I recall... I was there throughout all of his tenure, both home and away, we would end up either lower end of the table or teetering on the brink of relegation. In-fact, reconstruction saved us from relegation one year.

No thank you don't want to see his like again, although, I have a feeling our new manager might just be like him.

I had a chance to speak to him at a player of the year dance and he was very forthcoming an approachable,even as I was 18 at the time.

We were always mid table but as history shows,the pressure of redundancy was over everyone at Hibs at the time,can you expect anything more than fighting without knowing what was happening the next day to be any different?

What was the remit on here for the next manager? steady the ship and dirty 1-0 wins,that was what Miller was employed for too.

Can you see the current crop of players battling in the same circumstansies?

While I dont want to go back to those days,I feel his legacy must show how good he faired under extreme pressures

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes and no. Actually, yes and no and yes. I think you can split his time into 3 phases:

1. the early years: defensive, better organised, duller than an evening with Jim Jefferies - tedious

2. the middle years: skol cup, better players (Keef, Jacksona, Crunchie etc) - nae bad in spells

3. the fag end: team broke up, lost interest in Hibs, got caught up in being Pa Broon's #2 for Scotland - pish

[PaulSmith]

34% win ratio, here for 10 years, rotton fitba, derby record, greg and graeme getting a contract never mind a game...

[Pretty Boy]

Football was murder, he got rid of good folk around him when they voiced an opinion or had bigger ideas (Roughie, Perter Cormack, Murdo McLeod and Steve Archibald) he also had no social etiquette when dealing with fans or players very unfortunate dour man. Had no pleasure in speaking with him once. He had no time for me nor wanted to speak.

His record will speak for itself, we were never anything and as I recall... I was there throughout all of his tenure, both home and away, we would end up either lower end of the table or teetering on the brink of relegation. In-fact, reconstruction saved us from relegation one year.

No thank you don't want to see his like again, although, I have a feeling our new manager might just be like him.

Hibs were never saved from relegation by league reconstruction. A total myth that has been accepted as fact for some reason. St Mirren finished bottom the year the league was reconstructed.

We also finished 3rd under Miller in 1994-95, only missing out on 2nd to Motherwell i think on the last day of the season. The late 80s and early 90s were tough and yes we were generally to be found in the lower reaches of the table but to place the blame wholly with Miller is harsh in the extreme given the situation at the club.

He took us to the league cup final that we won and again in 1993 when we were very unlucky to lose to Rangers.

He also brought some very good players to the club: Michael O'Neill, Crunchie, Keith Wright, Darren Jackson, Jim Leighton and Murdo McLeod to name a few.

We where far from brilliant under Miller and his derby record and negativity at times is deserving of criticism but he did a decent job in pretty trying circumstances.

[Andy74]

I've seen this asked a few times recently and there seems to be a danger that we are getting foggy about it.

It was brutal. It was nothing to do with him being a Hun either.

Yes he had some good attacking players in particular but they were generally criminally played out of position.

One year it took us about 8 months to score more than one goal in an away game.

A dour, horrible time even though we did get to a couple of cup finals and won one of them. That little period was as good as it got.

[ozwoody]

34% win ratio, here for 10 years, rotton fitba, derby record, greg and graeme getting a contract never mind a game...

mixus record?yogis record?mowbrays record?cup wins? poor players now on contract? football has changed over the years,all I am saying is looking back at turmoil in club,it should be noted how well he did in face of horrendous odds,and maybe he was better than we thought at time

[stubru59]

We were rank rotten. Even the winning final against Dunfermline was a dour affair.

I have fleeting memories of games where we played well. But far too few for the length of time we had to put up with him.

[KeithTheHibby]

Hibs were never saved from relegation by league reconstruction. A total myth that has been accepted as fact for some reason. St Mirren finished bottom the year the league was reconstructed.

We also finished 3rd under Miller in 1994-95, only missing out on 2nd to Motherwell i think on the last day of the season. The late 80s and early 90s were tough and yes we were generally to be found in the lower reaches of the table but to place the blame wholly with Miller is harsh in the extreme given the situation at the club.

He took us to the league cup final that we won and again in 1993 when we were very unlucky to lose to Rangers.

He also brought some very good players to the club: Michael O'Neill, Crunchie, Keith Wright, Darren Jackson, Jim Leighton and Murdo McLeod to name a few.

We where far from brilliant under Miller and his derby record and negativity at times is deserving of criticism but he did a decent job in pretty trying circumstances.

Spot on mate.

Some people need to look at the bigger picture.

The minute Lexo left the club went into a downward spiral which led to relegation, he wasn't that bad!

[Alan62]

I'm going to have to stick up for Alex Miller here, having known him pretty well when he was at Hibs. I was programme editor at Easter Road at the time and spoke to Alex at least weekly. I also saw at very close hand what he really had to work with.

It's easy to dismiss the Miller years as dull and boring but you have to see the whole thing in context.

When Alex came to the Club it was in a desperately backward condition. The ground was a complete dump, there were no training facilities and the administrative set up was amateurish at best. I remember the players getting paid cash on a Friday in little brown envelopes and I remember them being dragged kicking and screaming to the bank to set up accounts so that the club could take the drastic step of paying them monthly into their accounts.

It's hard to get that perspective now after the progress that has been made at Easter Road.

For people like Jack, who posted above that Miller should never have been Hibs manager, there was always an agenda. I don't know Jack's precise reasons, of course, but there were many who couldn't separate out Miller's connections to Rangers as a player from his role as manager of Hibernian FC.

Yet few people will have worked as long or as hard or as honestly as Alex Miller did for the Club. Alex Miller is a grafter. He's obsessed with football and he did everything he could to bring success to our Club.

Having said that, he can be a bit of a dour individual and he was stubbornly pragmatic - which meant that he would build his teams so that they wouldn't lose first. Winning was a bonus for Alex Miller, not getting beat was a pre-requisite. Those of us (and I count myself amongst them) who are hopelessly romantic about Hibernian's flair credentials will always imagine that there's a way that Hibs should play. Alex Miller knew what he had and didn't pander to our romantic notions.

In the end, I believe, Alex Miller should have earned a far more positive place in Hibernian history than he's ever likely to get credit for. He delivered one of the few trophies that the Club has won in the modern era, he got the Club into Europe and he steered the football side of the Club to moderate success at a time when the business side was a complete shambles.

It's easy to dismiss the Miller years. It could have been a lot worse.

[KeithTheHibby]

On another note if he was that crap would he have been assistant manager at Liverpool for so long?!

[cockneymike]

Hibs were never saved from relegation by league reconstruction. A total myth that has been accepted as fact for some reason. St Mirren finished bottom the year the league was reconstructed.


Although that is strictly true, I think that we were bottom when the decision to restructure the league was made; and it was only once the pressure of fighting relegation was lifted that the players managed to get us off the bottom.

[Stevie Reid]

Wrote this about Miller on here recently, written many variations on it in my time on here: -

I wasn't old enough to remember him as a Rangers man either, which is why I judge him purely on what he did for Hibs - apart from his horrendoues derby record, I have no problem with Miller at all.

If we had had a different manager in charge when the ***** hit the fan and Mercer was doing his thing, we could be in a very different position to the stable club that Calderwood has just walked into. Miller had to manage in a much different football environment than exists today - 13 man match days squads, no Bosmans for wholesale changes every season.

He built a team up gradually over 10 years and the negative chat should really be put to bed when we got to the stage of having Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay in the starting line up every week. We were 4th in the league when he left and things may have been different had we not lost out to Hearts spending beyond their means to get Weir, Cameron and McCann.

Yes Miller made us hard to beat and there were a lot of 0-0s - but he did what he had to do to help our situation when he arrived (much like Walter Smith did when he took over Scotland after Berti Vogts), and made us hard to beat. Yes he was dour but we've just had a "character" as a manager who many have slated for speaking too much and not knowing how to set up a team not to get bullied in the SPL - something Miller very much knew.

To go from where we were in 1991 to winning the League Cup should mean he is held in much higher asteem by the Hibs support imo, never mind everything else he did.

[stubru59]

On another note if he was that crap would he have been assistant manager at Liverpool for so long?!

AM epitomises the saying that good coaches don't always make good managers.

He struggled at Aberdeen. Struggled in Japan. And is now struggling in Sweden.

[Lang Toun Hibs]

My own personal memories of the Miller years are in the main positive. I'm not old enough to have seen the real glory years and started following Hibs at the end of the 70's and early 80's. My memories of then are not too positive at all but alas I was hooked on being a Hibbie by then. My point being that when Miller finally arrived in 1986 we desperately needed some kind of stability and organisation and he brought that. I also believe that it was very much his St.Mirren team that went on to win the Scottish Cup after he left although Alex Smith got all the credit for it. The fact that he has also positively contributed to Scotland and Liverpool speaks volumes for his ability.

Whilst it wasn't particularly pretty in the early days of his time, he laid a solid foundation that kept us in the Premier and then started to build from there. I remember a Scottish Cup tie away to Brechin where the dugouts were practically accessible by the fans and I remember being part of a group giving him pelters as we struggled along at nil nil for most of the match (we evetually ground out a 2-0 win if I remember right). Anyway, he gave me/us a bit of advice that day when he turned around and told us to get off his back and get behind the team. How right he was - so much of our energy and support can get turned into self destructive negativity which transfers onto the pitch, making underconfident players struggle even more - albeit I'm not advocating a simple happy clapper approach before anyone wants to shoot me down for trying to make out that I am some kind of uberfan..I'm not and I regularly get caught up in the emotion of it all.

Anyhow, back to Alex Miller. In my opinion, he continued to do his work in an understated and dedicated fashion and to do his best for our club throughout a difficult period and then strarted to form a number of decent teams in my opinion. Thanks to him, after the first few years I was able to see a reasonably successful period (compared with my own previous direct expereince of following Hibs rather than in reference to the history books) where the threat of relegation was never really there and we got used to some impressive signings and dare I say, some exciting players during his stewardship. I've got very positive memories of watching players like John Collins, Mickey Weir, Steve Archibald, Paul Wright, Pat McGinlay, Michael O'Neil, Kevin Harper, Kevin McAllister, Darren Jackson and of course Keith Wright amongst many others. I also got to watch Hibs beat Rangers at Hampden in the semi before returning along with 40,000 or so others to see us lift the cup - and of course run Rangers very close at Parkhead again a couple of years later. A ver decent coach who did a very good job for us over a ten year period.

I only hope that our newest manager is afforded the time to develop his own team and style of play which will hopefully bring us success in time. My early impression is that it appears very much that he is wanting us to get back to basics and making us hard to beat with a view to using this as a foundation to go forward from. In these early days it's important to make sure we get right behind the team and the manager for what will hopefully be a longer term partnership than we have seen over recent years.

[Keith_M]

Not a popular opinion, it seems, but his teams weren't all bad. The early 90's saw some really good football, with players like Weir, Wright, O'Neil and Crunchie, among others. As said already, reached two finals and were a flukey McCoist shot from winning both. On the flip side, the good was sandwiched between some dire stuff.

One thing I would say is that he should have gone earlier than he did. He shouldn't even have been still in charge by the 7-0 humiliation at Ibrox, as he'd quite obviously lost it by then, the two previous matches against the OF being warning signs.

[Hibiza]

He was even worse. Him and his uncle dougie. 2 useless sons as players and a rank attitude. How he got his Liverpool job a total mystery, brother at man u same.:confused:

[skipster7]

Not a popular opinion, it seems, but his teams weren't all bad. The early 90's saw some really good football, with players like Weir, Wright, O'Neil and Crunchie, among others. As said already, reached two finals and were a flukey McCoist shot from winning both. On the flip side, the good was sandwiched between some dire stuff.

One thing I would say is that he should have gone earlier than he did. He shouldn't even have been still in charge by the 7-0 humiliation at Ibrox, as he'd quite obviously lost it by then, the two previous matches against the OF being warning signs.

agree with all that.the one and only time i felt compelled to phone a football phone in for a rant was on the way back from that game.i was all " hes lost the dressing room blah:blah:", totally raging.
All was well 2 days later when we were walking in a harper wonderland though:greengrin

[Jack]

Why's that then Jack?

I would go with all the negative posts that have followed. :agree:

Remember I was a young lad at the time, I played for the Civil Service Strollers. When I wasn’t playing (and we quite often moved fixtures about so that folk could go to games) I would be at ER with the mates I had gone with since school. Some folk might remember Hibs, and others, often played the Strollers pre-season and used Muirhouse (CCS home ground) for training.

My lasting memory of the man was a pre-season friendly. Half time the Hibs XI were one nil up and taking it quite easy. Miller set out to defend that lead in the second half. We scored and almost immediately Hibs were back in front.

After the game Miller took the, mostly young, lads into the changing room and gave them an absolute roasting for almost an hour. They had lost the lead and then against his orders had gone and scored again. It wasn’t nice in any way and as a young lad, brought up on things like 7 nil away wins :greengrin, it was a bit of a shock.

I watched into that season and became more and more disillusioned with Hibs, it made my eyes bleed and my heart sink further with each passing game. Folk were leaving before half time. One by one the once merry band of school pals drifted away. After one particularly awful, woeful particularly depressing and unpleasant game I swore I’d never go back to Easter Road. I was f’g raging with what he had done to my Hibs :grr:. And not long after that there were no mates to go with anyway.

I won’t even give him the courtesy of the League Cup win. IIRC he was unwell and in hospital for most of the run to the final and Murdo McLeod was in charge. His game plan, his win.

It was the best part of 20 years that I never went back. I’ve seen some of the old crew, many more are still missing.

[Cabbage East]

Dire fitba, dire crowds, dire record against the mutants.

[Row H]

Yes, he was as bad as we thought.

Hopeless.

[heretoday]

He won Hibs a trophy and he was a very decent man who operated against the blind prejudice of many Hibs supporters.

[lyonhibs]

He won Hibs a trophy and he was a very decent man who operated against the blind prejudice of many Hibs supporters.

:agree:

The football was grim in places - my 1st memories are the fag end of the Miller era, and they're not pretty - umpteen defeats to Hearts (well, John Robertson really) and just utter tedium. My Dad got back from one game and said "that broke the Trades Description Act - that was not football"

However, the circumstances he was operating under would make your mind boggle, in terms of finances, the professionalism of the behind the scenes set-up and the nick of the ground/facilities. How many Hibs managers have won a trophy at the helm??

Loved his appearance at the HoH 20th anniversary as well, though he looked quite pale and ill I thought :confused:

[hiblander]

Dire fitba, dire crowds, dire record against the mutants.

Did we not get beat by Anderlecht by the odd goal under Miller ??

They say Hibs have come on since then but really i dont think we have.

Miller for me was a legend for Hibs.

I can see the knives coming out for Calderwood before too long. As for Hughes biggest achievement...undefeated in the Highlands !!

[Lang Toun Hibs]

I won’t even give him the courtesy of the League Cup win. IIRC he was unwell and in hospital for most of the run to the final and Murdo McLeod was in charge. His game plan, his win.


Might be wrong but this isn't what I recall at all - Murdo did his bit on the park but Alex Miller was very much in charge.

[tamig]

Did we not get beat by Anderlecht by the odd goal under Miller ??

They say Hibs have come on since then but really i dont think we have.

Miller for me was a legend for Hibs.

I can see the knives coming out for Calderwood before too long. As for Hughes biggest achievement...undefeated in the Highlands !!

We got beat on away goals - 2-2 at ER and 1-1 over there. One of the best trips ever.

[new malkyhib]

Looking back at "the team that was" made me think bout the Miller years,and to be honest the majority of us never knew what was happening behind closed doors until mercer started the takeover bid,but the staff did.

So my question is,considering how down the whole club was in the years before 1990,not knowing if they had job the following week,shouldnt we praise Miller for stabilising the team in the worst era in living memory?

I know the football was dire,with so the attitude of "if they dont score,we wont get beat" but what could we expect knowing now what had happened?

And the fact he could entice the likes of goram, keith,murdo and budgie to club during those dark times must speak volumes for his management skills.

I,for one,look back now and see a manager that worked under terrible pressure,from board and fans,lifted himself above it,and gave me one of the best days of my life taking a team to hampden and winning the cup.

just my opinion

Alex Miller :notworthy:

WTF is the fascination with this guy on here? Signed decent players for sure, but played them all wrong - McAllister and O'Neill as auxiliary full backs, for one.

Got the Hibs job with a remit to keep them up - achieved that and should have p1ssed off no long afterwards after it became apparent his philosophy of "not losing" was preferable to "not winning".

His record against that lot was appalling, and IMO he wasn't bothered whether we beat them or not. Only lasted as long as he did because of his relationship with Dougie Cromb, and his irritating wife (Miller's) who had too much to say for herself around ER, and Cromb in particular.

Hibs made Miller, no the other way about, and the Weegie press lapped up the anti-Mlller/ex-hun thing and turned it in his favour.

If Calderwood turns out the same as him, then God help us...

[Northumberland Hibee]

My own personal memories of the Miller years are in the main positive. I'm not old enough to have seen the real glory years and started following Hibs at the end of the 70's and early 80's. My memories of then are not too positive at all but alas I was hooked on being a Hibbie by then. My point being that when Miller finally arrived in 1986 we desperately needed some kind of stability and organisation and he brought that. I also believe that it was very much his St.Mirren team that went on to win the Scottish Cup after he left although Alex Smith got all the credit for it. The fact that he has also positively contributed to Scotland and Liverpool speaks volumes for his ability.

Whilst it wasn't particularly pretty in the early days of his time, he laid a solid foundation that kept us in the Premier and then started to build from there. I remember a Scottish Cup tie away to Brechin where the dugouts were practically accessible by the fans and I remember being part of a group giving him pelters as we struggled along at nil nil for most of the match (we evetually ground out a 2-0 win if I remember right). Anyway, he gave me/us a bit of advice that day when he turned around and told us to get off his back and get behind the team. How right he was - so much of our energy and support can get turned into self destructive negativity which transfers onto the pitch, making underconfident players struggle even more - albeit I'm not advocating a simple happy clapper approach before anyone wants to shoot me down for trying to make out that I am some kind of uberfan..I'm not and I regularly get caught up in the emotion of it all.

Anyhow, back to Alex Miller. In my opinion, he continued to do his work in an understated and dedicated fashion and to do his best for our club throughout a difficult period and then strarted to form a number of decent teams in my opinion. Thanks to him, after the first few years I was able to see a reasonably successful period (compared with my own previous direct expereince of following Hibs rather than in reference to the history books) where the threat of relegation was never really there and we got used to some impressive signings and dare I say, some exciting players during his stewardship. I've got very positive memories of watching players like John Collins, Mickey Weir, Steve Archibald, Paul Wright, Pat McGinlay, Michael O'Neil, Kevin Harper, Kevin McAllister, Darren Jackson and of course Keith Wright amongst many others. I also got to watch Hibs beat Rangers at Hampden in the semi before returning along with 40,000 or so others to see us lift the cup - and of course run Rangers very close at Parkhead again a couple of years later. A ver decent coach who did a very good job for us over a ten year period.

I only hope that our newest manager is afforded the time to develop his own team and style of play which will hopefully bring us success in time. My early impression is that it appears very much that he is wanting us to get back to basics and making us hard to beat with a view to using this as a foundation to go forward from. In these early days it's important to make sure we get right behind the team and the manager for what will hopefully be a longer term partnership than we have seen over recent years.

I think most of the comments on Miller are a bit black/white - my view is that he did a decent job under difficult circumstances and he's played an important (albeit not stunningly exciting) part in our history and helped us to where we are today (stable and alive beyond many of our wildest dreams during the Mercer trauma)
The quote above is a pretty decent summary of my formative Hibs years. I was there for late Stanton and the year of Best but the Miller years were the one's that made me the cynical and naively optimistic Hibee that I am now. Who else (suggestions for a better manager?) might have seen us through those difficult times, kept us functional and intermittantly capable of good results against Rantic - however his derby record certainly taints his Hibs achievements (and blights many of my teenage memories....). However he did get some decent players in his teams with Mickey, MoN, Keith, Goram and Mcallister as personal favourites......the Hampden feeling in 1991 will only ever be surpassed by winning the unmentionable cup.....

[The Harp Awakes]

Dire fitba, dire crowds, dire record against the mutants.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

Didn't miss too many matches under Miller's tenure and have to say that most games weren't enjoyable.

He has to take credit for a great Cup win against the odds, although 2 green blooded players in Micky and Keith had a lot to do with it as well:top marks

[Sproule Three]

Has nobody mentioned Brian Hamilton ?Whatever people thought of the dour Hun any sense of objectivity goes when I think of that waste of space getting selected every week.
He signed some great players but the cautious approach IMHO meant we considerably underachieved. His derby record was absolutely abysmal. NOT a fan overall .

As for the mythical "saved from relegation by league reconstruction. "
We weren't .FACT ! Not even close.
Look at the goals scored however. Thats Miller summed up for me.:yawn:

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premier-division/1990-1991/table

[Franck is God]

Yes.

Although to be fair it's difficult to compare the job Miller did with the current managers, for a start the transfer market is completely different, almost all players were signed for a fee, prior to Bosman there were very few free agent players. He also kept his job for ten years despite fighting relegation the majority of seasons while in charge which would never happen now.

I'm not going to say that there were no high points while he was at ER because that simply isn't true, the league cup final win was amazing but I'm afraid those high points were very few and far between.

He did build a couple of very good sides while he was here though but he dismantled them himself, its not like now where if a player has a decent season he is automatically poached by a bigger club. We had players like McGinlay, Wright, Jackson, O'Neil, Crunchie for years and when they did leave we got decent cash which was then actually spent signing replacements for them. We probably spent more money on transfer fees under Miller than all the managers that have come and gone since combined.

If he had left the season after the league cup win then he probably would have gone with fond memories from the majority of fans but he stayed and it got steadily worse for the next 5 years and he left as with a massive squad of players that were prime relegation candidates. He may not have been in charge when we actually got relegated but he did the main damage to the squad.

Anyone that thought it was bad under Blobby, Mixu or even Yogi either didn't see Hibs under Miller or are now using selective memories to make it seem not as bad.

Anyway his record against Hearts was so poor he should have been sacked for that alone, Hearts did have a decent side then but they should never have been able to stay unbeaten against us for so long.

And I never forgave him for selling Kano and and personally wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

[--------]

Hibs were never saved from relegation by league reconstruction. A total myth that has been accepted as fact for some reason. St Mirren finished bottom the year the league was reconstructed.

We also finished 3rd under Miller in 1994-95, only missing out on 2nd to Motherwell i think on the last day of the season. The late 80s and early 90s were tough and yes we were generally to be found in the lower reaches of the table but to place the blame wholly with Miller is harsh in the extreme given the situation at the club.

He took us to the league cup final that we won and again in 1993 when we were very unlucky to lose to Rangers.

He also brought some very good players to the club: Michael O'Neill, Crunchie, Keith Wright, Darren Jackson, Jim Leighton and Murdo McLeod to name a few.

We where far from brilliant under Miller and his derby record and negativity at times is deserving of criticism but he did a decent job in pretty trying circumstances.


Fair assessment.

Alex's initial job was to keep us up - he did. Then the club infrastucture went into meltdown thanks to Duff Davy and Wally Smirker, and he kept things together when most folks were expecting us to go down the tubes completely.

He delivered one League Cup - OK the final was pretty dour, but we didn't half give the Huns a spanking in the semi - and he came very close to a second - IIRC only the referee's refusal of a penalty shout to Keith W early on (which would have involved the dismissal of Ally Maxwell-Cheat as well) denied him (and us).

His teams were always well-organised; he bought well and wisely up till the very last season when there the chairman Dougie Cromb himself came under pressure to resign, which affected Alex's position adversely; and he wasn't anything like as negative as some on here are making out. Winning games 1-0 away and giving the opposition no chances might have seemed boring then, but if CC can get us doing that consistently, I for one won't be complaining.

The derby record really did for Alex, IMO - that and his Rangers antecedents.

But I do know that when we were facing take-over and relegation an old friend of mine from the island of Lewis who knew him personally told me that everything would work out well regardless - Mercer was no more than a fly-man, and Alex Miller would keep the players together and see the team through the bad times no bother.

Alex wasn't perfect - no one is. But some of the posts on here about him are disgraceful.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I was always pro Miller. My one gripe was that he was maybe too realistic about Hibs' potential. However, to keep his job for over 10 turbulent years was an achievement in itself.

[KWJ]

My own personal memories of the Miller years are in the main positive. I'm not old enough to have seen the real glory years and started following Hibs at the end of the 70's and early 80's. My memories of then are not too positive at all but alas I was hooked on being a Hibbie by then. My point being that when Miller finally arrived in 1986 we desperately needed some kind of stability and organisation and he brought that. I also believe that it was very much his St.Mirren team that went on to win the Scottish Cup after he left although Alex Smith got all the credit for it. The fact that he has also positively contributed to Scotland and Liverpool speaks volumes for his ability.

Whilst it wasn't particularly pretty in the early days of his time, he laid a solid foundation that kept us in the Premier and then started to build from there. I remember a Scottish Cup tie away to Brechin where the dugouts were practically accessible by the fans and I remember being part of a group giving him pelters as we struggled along at nil nil for most of the match (we evetually ground out a 2-0 win if I remember right). Anyway, he gave me/us a bit of advice that day when he turned around and told us to get off his back and get behind the team. How right he was - so much of our energy and support can get turned into self destructive negativity which transfers onto the pitch, making underconfident players struggle even more - albeit I'm not advocating a simple happy clapper approach before anyone wants to shoot me down for trying to make out that I am some kind of uberfan..I'm not and I regularly get caught up in the emotion of it all.

Anyhow, back to Alex Miller. In my opinion, he continued to do his work in an understated and dedicated fashion and to do his best for our club throughout a difficult period and then strarted to form a number of decent teams in my opinion. Thanks to him, after the first few years I was able to see a reasonably successful period (compared with my own previous direct expereince of following Hibs rather than in reference to the history books) where the threat of relegation was never really there and we got used to some impressive signings and dare I say, some exciting players during his stewardship. I've got very positive memories of watching players like John Collins, Mickey Weir, Steve Archibald, Paul Wright, Pat McGinlay, Michael O'Neil, Kevin Harper, Kevin McAllister, Darren Jackson and of course Keith Wright amongst many others. I also got to watch Hibs beat Rangers at Hampden in the semi before returning along with 40,000 or so others to see us lift the cup - and of course run Rangers very close at Parkhead again a couple of years later. A ver decent coach who did a very good job for us over a ten year period.

I only hope that our newest manager is afforded the time to develop his own team and style of play which will hopefully bring us success in time. My early impression is that it appears very much that he is wanting us to get back to basics and making us hard to beat with a view to using this as a foundation to go forward from. In these early days it's important to make sure we get right behind the team and the manager for what will hopefully be a longer term partnership than we have seen over recent years.

My first game was in 89 against Alloa and I was also at the Rangers semi and the final. I remember a 0-0 against Celtic in a semi played at Ibrox too. I remember the years of abuse from Jambos and I remember the good days of watching Crunchie skin umpteen players, Michael O'Neill curl home a pearler or Keith bang them home.

That along with the relegation, the first division season, and all that's happened after has made me the Hibee I am.

I agree with everything said in the post above, he speaketh the truth.

[basehibby]

I think a lot of Hibbies were and still are very harsh on Miller - yes he was a bit dour and yes his record vs the Yams was awful.

However, on the plus side he stuck resolutely by the club through one of the worst periods in our history and managed to keep us in the top flight throughout his tenure AND win a trophy at a time when I can only imagine that the funds at his disposal were all but non-existant.

There were some real dour periods but there were also good seasons when European qualification was achieved and real entertainers such as O'Neil and McAllister were brought to the club (who were NEVER played at full back any time I was watching by the way :confused:).

I think he had passed his sell by date by the time he left and I was happy enough to see a fresh face in the hot seat. However, what that replacement achieved (ie relegation) should be enough to completely bury the lie that Miller was "hopeless" at his job. He was a steady pair of hands when we needed it most and deserves great credit for the loyalty and dedication he showed during those dark days of the Mercer takeover bid which saw the club flourish on the football field at a time when it was almost withering on the vine off it.

[BSEJVT]

I think Miller just stayed too long.

I knew a few folk in and around ER at that time and they and the players liked him.

Awful derby record and rangers past count more against him than they should.

We have had many worse managers than Miller since he left.

Interestingly enough after all the crap of the past few years I am beginning to see the Williamson years in a better light and at the time I absolutely hated him as a Hibs manager.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Fair assessment.

Alex's initial job was to keep us up - he did. Then the club infrastucture went into meltdown thanks to Duff Davy and Wally Smirker, and he kept things together when most folks were expecting us to go down the tubes completely.

He delivered one League Cup - OK the final was pretty dour, but we didn't half give the Huns a spanking in the semi - and he came very close to a second - IIRC only the referee's refusal of a penalty shout to Keith W early on (which would have involved the dismissal of Ally Maxwell-Cheat as well) denied him (and us).

His teams were always well-organised; he bought well and wisely up till the very last season when there the chairman Dougie Cromb himself came under pressure to resign, which affected Alex's position adversely; and he wasn't anything like as negative as some on here are making out. Winning games 1-0 away and giving the opposition no chances might have seemed boring then, but if CC can get us doing that consistently, I for one won't be complaining.

The derby record really did for Alex, IMO - that and his Rangers antecedents.

But I do know that when we were facing take-over and relegation an old friend of mine from the island of Lewis who knew him personally told me that everything would work out well regardless - Mercer was no more than a fly-man, and Alex Miller would keep the players together and see the team through the bad times no bother.

Alex wasn't perfect - no one is. But some of the posts on here about him are disgraceful.

Miller was never popular with a faction at board level who felt he wasn't Hibs minded enough. Obviously I cant name names but some of them were responsible for our great adventure a couple of years later.

Obviously these people would deny any agenda of that sort as well. However, I believe bigotry was a big factor in his lack of popularity. I also believe the same bigotry was a contibutory factor when Duff Jimmy got the job.

[Jack]

Miller was never popular with a faction at board level who felt he wasn't Hibs minded enough. Obviously I cant name names but some of them were responsible for our great adventure a couple of years later.

Obviously these people would deny any agenda of that sort as well. However, I believe bigotry was a big factor in his lack of popularity. I also believe the same bigotry was a contibutory factor when Duff Jimmy got the job.

I think that's nonsense TBH ... and makes me slightly cross :grr:

You'll probably find that half the clubs in the world are going through turmoil of sorts at any given time. It’s part of the game and managers, players, supporters et al learn to live with it.

As for bigotry, the same – nonsense. If that man hadn’t played such crap football, or even attempted decent football, then he would have had the fans onside. Hibs have had non-Hibs minded managers who have had the fans onside, McLeish for example. There may be some that cannot accept an OF link but IMO it’s a small minority – it’s the way the teams plays that's important for the majority.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think that's nonsense TBH ... and makes me slightly cross :grr:

You'll probably find that half the clubs in the world are going through turmoil of sorts at any given time. It’s part of the game and managers, players, supporters et al learn to live with it.

As for bigotry, the same – nonsense. If that man hadn’t played such crap football, or even attempted decent football, then he would have had the fans onside. Hibs have had non-Hibs minded managers who have had the fans onside, McLeish for example. There may be some that cannot accept an OF link but IMO it’s a small minority – it’s the way the teams plays that's important for the majority.

Fair play, I am basing my thoughts on sources that were close to the board at the time. I'd never try to pass my opinion off as fact, I just heard things I was uncomfortable with.

You are saying he didn't have the fans onside. My recollection is that there was a sizeable proportion behind Miller who were drowned out by those who weren't. Reading this thread alone would suggest that it isn't as clear cut as some like to make out.

[Wing Half]

Yes and just ask the fans of AIK for an update.

[Sunny1875]

Lexo was brought to Hibs at a time when we needed to steady the ship.

Yes the football was not pretty and mostly uninspiring

84/85 and 85/86 We finished 8th from 10 both seasons scoring 38 and 49 and conceding 61 and 63 We were flirting in the lower reaches of the league and relegation.

86/87 9th from 12 with 44 goals scored and 70 conceded (-26 gd)
87/88 6th with 41 scored 42 against (-1)
2 safe but lower half finishes followed
91/92 finished 5th For 53 against 45 (+8)
94/95 Finished 3rd for 49 against 37 (+10)
finishing 1 point behind a motherwell team who could not beat us all season
95/96 finished 5th
96/97 9th under Jim Duffy
97/98 10th and relegated under Jim Duffy .

As I said above not pretty but he was given time to blend his own team, and that he did, a team he set out not to lose, as others have said we had some good players gracing our park at some points in Miller's tenure, We had some poor ones too. Like it or not Lexo was succesfull in that he avoided relegation. He took us to Europe, led the team to a cup triumph. Not bad for a Sh*** manager, would 10 years of Jim Duffer have been better ?

[sesoim]

I've seen this asked a few times recently and there seems to be a danger that we are getting foggy about it.

It was brutal. It was nothing to do with him being a Hun either.

Yes he had some good attacking players in particular but they were generally criminally played out of position.

One year it took us about 8 months to score more than one goal in an away game.

A dour, horrible time even though we did get to a couple of cup finals and won one of them. That little period was as good as it got.


:agree: And we probably lost a few thousand fans due to his football and awful derby record.

[sesoim]

Lexo was brought to Hibs at a time when we needed to steady the ship.

Yes the football was not pretty and mostly uninspiring

84/85 and 85/86 We finished 8th from 10 both seasons scoring 38 and 49 and conceding 61 and 63 We were flirting in the lower reaches of the league and relegation.

86/87 9th from 12 with 44 goals scored and 70 conceded (-26 gd)
87/88 6th with 41 scored 42 against (-1)
2 safe but lower half finishes followed
91/92 finished 5th For 53 against 45 (+8)
94/95 Finished 3rd for 49 against 37 (+10)
finishing 1 point behind a motherwell team who could not beat us all season
95/96 finished 5th
96/97 9th under Jim Duffy
97/98 10th and relegated under Jim Duffy .

As I said above not pretty but he was given time to blend his own team, and that he did, a team he set out not to lose, as others have said we had some good players gracing our park at some points in Miller's tenure, We had some poor ones too. Like it or not Lexo was succesfull in that he avoided relegation. He took us to Europe, led the team to a cup triumph. Not bad for a Sh*** manager, would 10 years of Jim Duffer have been better ?


ANY manager should be able to get Hibs into Europe at least a couple of times at ten attempts. The same goes for the Cups - if Hibs have twenty attempts at winning a Cup, we should really win one. You have to remember that the football was awful (apart from a spell around 93-93), and Hibs lost a lot of fans as a result. The last straw was him coming back late from Euro 96 and wasting £200k on Ian Cameron. He had clearly last interest in Hibs by then.

[Sunny1875]

ANY manager should be able to get Hibs into Europe at least a couple of times at ten attempts. The same goes for the Cups - if Hibs have twenty attempts at winning a Cup, we should really win one. You have to remember that the football was awful (apart from a spell around 93-93), and Hibs lost a lot of fans as a result. The last straw was him coming back late from Euro 96 and wasting £200k on Ian Cameron. He had clearly last interest in Hibs by then.


Well we have sadly had Many attempts at winning a cup since and before and the odd trophy every few years is our lot.

Turnbull's Team was the best quality side i have seen as a hibs supporter closely followed by the side which included Frank, Latapy etc, good attacking football and yet where was the trophy haul from these teams.