Hertski accuse SFA of being biased and corrupt

[macca70]

Jambo's have today realesed an official statement asking fo more accountabilty from refs. A statement that basically accuses the SFA of being biased and corrupt.

Maybe they want to get there own house in order before commenting on the SFA. Wasnt the SFA that got them into the £30 million debt or the reason they got humped 3-0 at home by Killie.

Maybe its there attempt to influence and put pressure on the referee for the derby :grr:

I hope they get hammered with a hefty fine for there comments.

Its statements like this from these classless clowns that are going to cause the refs to strike or walk away from the game for ever then where will that leave Scottish Football. We've already ready had 1 ref resign.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20101031/hearts-call-for-increased-accountability-for-referees_2241384_2202854

"Until then, honesty amongst our match officials remains paramount to the game. Those officials that fail that basic character trait should realise that the football pitches of Scotland are no place for them. High standards and not double standards - this is what we need to raise the game to a higher level."

[poolman]

Jambo's have today realesed an official statement asking fo more accountabilty from refs. A statement that basically accuses the SFA of being biased and corrupt.

Maybe they want to get there own house in order before commenting on the SFA. Wasnt the SFA that got them into the £30 million debt or the reason they got humped 3-0 at home by Killie.

Maybe its there attempt to influence and put pressure on the referee for the derby :grr:

I hope they get hammered with a hefty fine for there comments.

Its statements like this from these classless clowns that are going to cause the refs to strike or walk away from the game for ever then where will that leave Scottish Football. We've already ready had 1 ref resign.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20101031/hearts-call-for-increased-accountability-for-referees_2241384_2202854

"Until then, honesty amongst our match officials remains paramount to the game. Those officials that fail that basic character trait should realise that the football pitches of Scotland are no place for them. High standards and not double standards - this is what we need to raise the game to a higher level."


Was just gonna post this myself

That letter the have put on their website is nothing short of a bloody scandal

Match fixing and referees actively engineering situations, dearie bloody me, thon fedotovas should be hauled up for this, mind you he's probably been told to put his name to it from Mad Vlad :bitchy:

[matty_f]

Reading that, if I was the ref next week I'd give them nowt.
Classless from top to bottom.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Was just gonna post this myself

That letter the have put on their website is nothing short of a bloody scandal

Match fixing and referees actively engineering situations, dearie bloody me, thon fedotovas should be hauled up for this, mind you he's probably been told to put his name to it from Mad Vlad :bitchy:

There's a thread on here most days claiming the SFA are corrupt and calling for action against it. If noone raises it nothing will happen?...

[Sergey]

Flabbergasted by this quote:


...to insure that the Scottish game is not a place for reputation damaging situations.

FFS - This coming from a Yam director. You honestly couldn't make this up.

[Godsahibby]

While its not the best thing to come out and say on your official site it's hard to argue with some of the points raised.

[matty_f]

There's a thread on here most days claiming the SFA are corrupt and calling for action against it. If noone raises it nothing will happen?...

I think there are better ways of going about it, for a start get some concrete evidence to back up the claims.

[Mary Hinge]

Vlad and his hired helps accusing anyone of corruption is a definite pot/kettle situation :agree:

[magpie1892]

I think there are better ways of going about it, for a start get some concrete evidence to back up the claims.

Agreed.

I can't be the only person that gets a whiff of 'exit strategy' about this nonsense?

[Since90+2]

Referees wont quit for the simple reason the amount of money they are paid , £800 a game is alot of money.

Say they take charge of only 25 top flight games a year , thats £20,000 a year!

[Danderhall Hibs]

I think there are better ways of going about it, for a start get some concrete evidence to back up the claims.

I never even read the statement - just pointing out that a lot of folk on here think the SFA are corrupt (referees, draw fixing, fixture list planning etc) so why complain when someone else agrees with them?

[CentreLine]

Jambo's have today realesed an official statement asking fo more accountabilty from refs. A statement that basically accuses the SFA of being biased and corrupt.

Maybe they want to get there own house in order before commenting on the SFA. Wasnt the SFA that got them into the £30 million debt or the reason they got humped 3-0 at home by Killie.

Maybe its there attempt to influence and put pressure on the referee for the derby :grr:

I hope they get hammered with a hefty fine for there comments.

Its statements like this from these classless clowns that are going to cause the refs to strike or walk away from the game for ever then where will that leave Scottish Football. We've already ready had 1 ref resign.

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20101031/hearts-call-for-increased-accountability-for-referees_2241384_2202854

"Until then, honesty amongst our match officials remains paramount to the game. Those officials that fail that basic character trait should realise that the football pitches of Scotland are no place for them. High standards and not double standards - this is what we need to raise the game to a higher level."

Hahahahearts want to get their own house in order, as do all clubs to be fair, and take action against the cheats that they put on the park. When wee Susan and Clumsy Elliot and others stop diving all over the park trying to con the ref then I will accept there is room for clubs to criticise refs. We have had some beauties in our team too but I always found it laughable that hahahahearts, with David Weir and Steven Pressley, took the diving thing to a new level when they would make up for their lack of pace by diving to get a free kick in defence. I thought it was getting better until I saw them at it again today.
Bunch of hypocrites :jamboak:
Sort out the cheats or accept that conning the ref is part of the game but you can't have it both ways

[grunt]

Flabbergasted by this quote:

...to insure that the Scottish game is not a place for reputation damaging situations. FFS - This coming from a Yam director. You honestly couldn't make this up.
Tsk tsk, tbh it annoys me when so called official statements contain simple mistakes like that.

[PaulSmith]

Referees wont quit for the simple reason the amount of money they are paid , £800 a game is alot of money.

Say they take charge of only 25 top flight games a year , thats £20,000 a year!

Unpaid leave from work, 15 years of having to officiate from u 13 right the way through to Juniors, unable to go out for a pint or sometimes leave the house on a Sat night, children given dogs abuse at school...£800 a game doesn't sound too appealing now does it?

[Toaods]

Still have tears of laughter at harden Kevin Kyle's swallow dive today,

[Golden Bear]

The Yams have got to be seen to be acting like a BIG team.

After all the Ugly Sisters have recently come out with similar statements so the mighty hawrts just had to follow suit.

Sad but extremely predictable.

:bitchy:

[ronaldo7]

If there's a bandwagon picking up a head of steam then the Hertski just have to be on it.

[Westie1875]

I think they're correct. And I can't see anyone that actually goes to the games disagreeing!

Its the way that certain teams go about this kind of thing that screams unprofessional though, them and Celtc are only making a bad situation worse for the rest of us.

The post about players diving and faking injury is spot on too, until they sort their cheats out they really are barking up the wrong tree.

[southfieldshibby]

Sad really.

Wish we could start again.

[Keith_M]

http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20101031/hearts-call-for-increased-accountability-for-referees_2241384_2202854

"Until then, honesty amongst our match officials remains paramount to the game. Those officials that fail that basic character trait should realise that the football pitches of Scotland are no place for them. High standards and not double standards - this is what we need to raise the game to a higher level."

Only among match officials? Not among cheating wee scrotes of players that try to decieve the referee at every given opportunity, like throwing themselves to the ground like they'd just been shot when someone nudges them in the back?

[Hibbyradge]

For a start, isn't it an amazing coincidence that Hearts come out with this on the same day they get humped at home by Killie? Freakish luck. :rolleyes:

"And there should be no double standards - all clubs need to be treated equally, not just those that dominate the game."

Didn't Romanov spend a lot of time and money ensuring that Kaunus, who were the dominant team in Lithuania, were unfairly favoured in their league? :dunno:

Was one of the reasons he withdrew them from the professional league because the bias towards them had been stopped? :dunno:

"There is no place for a high proportion of human error meaning low standards - it can easily be a cover for bias and match fixing."

Wasn't Vlad accused of trying and/or succeeding to fix matches? :dunno:

You know, we definitely see things through our own eyes and our own experiences.

Vlad, for it is him behind these words, has a very warped view of football.

I wonder if Vlad intends to use the "corrupt SFA" and the "incompetent referees" as an exit strategy.

Some interesting information about the real Romanov Triangle - Power, bias and corruption. (http://soccerlens.com/chaos-in-kaunas-the-decline-and-fall-of-the-romanov-empire/27087/)

[Duffys13]

While its not the best thing to come out and say on your official site it's hard to argue with some of the points raised.

I agree with most of it too, still funny they have come out with it though!!!

[Twa Cairpets]

I think they're correct. And I can't see anyone that actually goes to the games disagreeing!

1. As both a fan and a referee, I absolutely do not believe there is corruption or bias shown by referees. There are refs who are better than others, and refs who have bad games and make mistakes, but it is absolutely not some form of institutional bias. As fans, we are victims of confirmation bias - we remember all the "suspect" decisions against us, and none given for us. How many times have you been convinced that a penltly should have been given/not given in the first half of a game, screamed abuse at the ref, only to watch the Sky/ESPN coverage at half time while waiting for your pie and realise that the ref was 100%correct?
2. The incident that caused Craven to resign - and started the latest round of ref-bashing - was for a decision against the OF, and a brave, correct one at that. Hardly evidence of OF bias.
3. The moral high-horsing of Hearts, Lennon and their ilk is utterly disugusting. They send out players to kick, dive, cheat and intimidate, but somehow it's the referees that are destroying the game? Get a grip.
4. The stance that Hearts are taking here is astonishing. Essentially, they are telling the world (and those of their fans who can read) that referees are cheating. Not only does this reek of typical classless yam paranoia, it increases the pressure on refs immeasurably.

[Hibbyradge]

1. As both a fan and a referee, I absolutely do not believe there is corruption or bias shown by referees. There are refs who are better than others, and refs who have bad games and make mistakes, but it is absolutely not some form of institutional bias. As fans, we are victims of confirmation bias - we remember all the "suspect" decisions against us, and none given for us. How many times have you been convinced that a penltly should have been given/not given in the first half of a game, screamed abuse at the ref, only to watch the Sky/ESPN coverage at half time while waiting for your pie and realise that the ref was 100%correct?
2. The incident that caused Craven to resign - and started the latest round of ref-bashing - was for a decision against the OF, and a brave, correct one at that. Hardly evidence of OF bias.
3. The moral high-horsing of Hearts, Lennon and their ilk is utterly disugusting. They send out players to kick, dive, cheat and intimidate, but somehow it's the referees that are destroying the game? Get a grip.
4. The stance that Hearts are taking here is astonishing. Essentially, they are telling the world (and those of their fans who can read) that referees are cheating. Not only does this reek of typical classless yam paranoia, it increases the pressure on refs immeasurably.

I agree. Well said.

[blackpoolhibs]

1. As both a fan and a referee, I absolutely do not believe there is corruption or bias shown by referees. There are refs who are better than others, and refs who have bad games and make mistakes, but it is absolutely not some form of institutional bias. As fans, we are victims of confirmation bias - we remember all the "suspect" decisions against us, and none given for us. How many times have you been convinced that a penltly should have been given/not given in the first half of a game, screamed abuse at the ref, only to watch the Sky/ESPN coverage at half time while waiting for your pie and realise that the ref was 100%correct?
2. The incident that caused Craven to resign - and started the latest round of ref-bashing - was for a decision against the OF, and a brave, correct one at that. Hardly evidence of OF bias.
3. The moral high-horsing of Hearts, Lennon and their ilk is utterly disugusting. They send out players to kick, dive, cheat and intimidate, but somehow it's the referees that are destroying the game? Get a grip.
4. The stance that Hearts are taking here is astonishing. Essentially, they are telling the world (and those of their fans who can read) that referees are cheating. Not only does this reek of typical classless yam paranoia, it increases the pressure on refs immeasurably.

:top marks The pressure put upon them now from the media, the fans, and the SFA makes their job impossible. They are not allowed mistakes anymore, if they do make one they are virtually being accused of cheating. Why anyone wants to do this job is beyond me.

[Phil D. Rolls]

While its not the best thing to come out and say on your official site it's hard to argue with some of the points raised.

It's hard to make any sense of some of the points raised.


I think there are better ways of going about it, for a start get some concrete evidence to back up the claims.

Facts and Yams have never been easy bedfellows.


Referees wont quit for the simple reason the amount of money they are paid , £800 a game is alot of money.

Say they take charge of only 25 top flight games a year , thats £20,000 a year!

If it's that easy, why don't you do it?

[Spike Mandela]

Anyone know who the ref is on Sunday?

[Sir David Gray]

Anyone know who the ref is on Sunday?

That should be announced at some point today. No mention of it so far, though.

[HenryMonk]

1. As both a fan and a referee, I absolutely do not believe there is corruption or bias shown by referees. There are refs who are better than others, and refs who have bad games and make mistakes, but it is absolutely not some form of institutional bias. As fans, we are victims of confirmation bias - we remember all the "suspect" decisions against us, and none given for us. How many times have you been convinced that a penltly should have been given/not given in the first half of a game, screamed abuse at the ref, only to watch the Sky/ESPN coverage at half time while waiting for your pie and realise that the ref was 100%correct?
2. The incident that caused Craven to resign - and started the latest round of ref-bashing - was for a decision against the OF, and a brave, correct one at that. Hardly evidence of OF bias.
3. The moral high-horsing of Hearts, Lennon and their ilk is utterly disugusting. They send out players to kick, dive, cheat and intimidate, but somehow it's the referees that are destroying the game? Get a grip.
4. The stance that Hearts are taking here is astonishing. Essentially, they are telling the world (and those of their fans who can read) that referees are cheating. Not only does this reek of typical classless yam paranoia, it increases the pressure on refs immeasurably.

pretty much agree with you, the standard of ref's in this country is poor!

and this statement from hearts is a cynical ploy to get a dodgy decision on sunday!

and as for lennons action, something needs tobe done about him. wonder what hes moaning about this week!!
he cleary forgets that stokes should have been sent of for that shocking tackle on papac and samaras kneeing there keeper!! nowt done about that!!

[HFC 0-7]

1. As both a fan and a referee, I absolutely do not believe there is corruption or bias shown by referees. There are refs who are better than others, and refs who have bad games and make mistakes, but it is absolutely not some form of institutional bias. As fans, we are victims of confirmation bias - we remember all the "suspect" decisions against us, and none given for us. How many times have you been convinced that a penltly should have been given/not given in the first half of a game, screamed abuse at the ref, only to watch the Sky/ESPN coverage at half time while waiting for your pie and realise that the ref was 100%correct?
2. The incident that caused Craven to resign - and started the latest round of ref-bashing - was for a decision against the OF, and a brave, correct one at that. Hardly evidence of OF bias.
3. The moral high-horsing of Hearts, Lennon and their ilk is utterly disugusting. They send out players to kick, dive, cheat and intimidate, but somehow it's the referees that are destroying the game? Get a grip.
4. The stance that Hearts are taking here is astonishing. Essentially, they are telling the world (and those of their fans who can read) that referees are cheating. Not only does this reek of typical classless yam paranoia, it increases the pressure on refs immeasurably.

I have to say that I dont think there is an intentional bias to favour any team, however, I do think that the events over the weekend have shown that the referees are not transparent with the rest of football, favouring to cover up mistakes rather than coming clean about what happened.

What I would say is that the apparent bias is probably because of the old firm being able to make so much out of a decision. because of this the papers run stories all week and dramatise as much as possible. The result is that referees may give the 50-50's to the old firm and perhaps be a bit more soft towards the old firm when the hard decisions are needed.

The main problem with scottish referees are that many of them just arent up to standard. Because of this it gives clubs the ammo to shoot down any decisions the refs make.

[JimBHibees]

I have to say that I dont think there is an intentional bias to favour any team, however, I do think that the events over the weekend have shown that the referees are not transparent with the rest of football, favouring to cover up mistakes rather than coming clean about what happened.

What I would say is that the apparent bias is probably because of the old firm being able to make so much out of a decision. because of this the papers run stories all week and dramatise as much as possible. The result is that referees may give the 50-50's to the old firm and perhaps be a bit more soft towards the old firm when the hard decisions are needed.

The main problem with scottish referees are that many of them just arent up to standard. Because of this it gives clubs the ammo to shoot down any decisions the refs make.

I agree there isnt instituional bias however I think some clubs are very good at putting the pressure on refs more than others which probably reflects their status in the game in Scotland. The league is dominated by two clubs therefore IMO they are more likely to be able to put more pressure on refs than others much like the way they do business.

It is a very difficult job however I dont think it is helpful that the majority of top refs appear to come or certainly have previously come from Glasgow and surrounding areas most affected by the Old Firm influence.

[Hibs Class]

Anyone know who the ref is on Sunday?


Willie Collum

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/RefereeAppointments/SPL/SPL/Round%2011(6-7%20NOV).pdf

[Twa Cairpets]

I agree there isnt instituional bias however I think some clubs are very good at putting the pressure on refs more than others which probably reflects their status in the game in Scotland. The league is dominated by two clubs therefore IMO they are more likely to be able to put more pressure on refs than others much like the way they do business.

It is a very difficult job however I dont think it is helpful that the majority of top refs appear to come or certainly have previously come from Glasgow and surrounding areas most affected by the Old Firm influence.

Most senior referees have spent virtually every Saturday afternoon for years refereeing through Amateur, Junior and senior ranks, and i would suggest that their alleigance to any club is at best nominal.

Oddly, I think in the past the opportunity to be biased or influenced was much more significant. it is now much more a career, and one that is analysed in much more minute detail than it used to be with TV and the internet.

I also believe that for the most part, Scottish referees are certainly as good as those in England - pundits who don't know the laws, supporters with an agenda or clubs with a chip on their shoulder doesnt mean that the referees are wrongly applying the laws. As for the old chestnut "Old Firm games are refereed differently", well of course they bloody are. The laws dont change, and the application of matters of law dont change, but the management of the game may well be different. To clarify - the ref will clamp down on fouls early or will maybe allow advatnage as much as possible - these are decisions within the referees remit which they can use to control a game.

But to get back on track. The post from Hearts is one which should bring them a charge of bringing the game into disrepute. It is genuinely scandalous, and they should have the book thrown at them.

[Keith_M]

1. As both a fan and a referee, I absolutely do not believe there is corruption or bias shown by referees. There are refs who are better than others, and refs who have bad games and make mistakes, but it is absolutely not some form of institutional bias. As fans, we are victims of confirmation bias - we remember all the "suspect" decisions against us, and none given for us. How many times have you been convinced that a penltly should have been given/not given in the first half of a game, screamed abuse at the ref, only to watch the Sky/ESPN coverage at half time while waiting for your pie and realise that the ref was 100%correct?
2. The incident that caused Craven to resign - and started the latest round of ref-bashing - was for a decision against the OF, and a brave, correct one at that. Hardly evidence of OF bias.
3. The moral high-horsing of Hearts, Lennon and their ilk is utterly disugusting. They send out players to kick, dive, cheat and intimidate, but somehow it's the referees that are destroying the game? Get a grip.
4. The stance that Hearts are taking here is astonishing. Essentially, they are telling the world (and those of their fans who can read) that referees are cheating. Not only does this reek of typical classless yam paranoia, it increases the pressure on refs immeasurably.


:top marks

[Green_one]

Hearts have let Celtic off the hook with their mad rantings. They could wait to see where Celtics complaints took them and let them take the risks. So what do they do, pitch in with haverings.

Can anyone say Hearts have suffered from bad refereeing over the past couple of seasons or just rank teams / managers?

The wording in the rant cannot avoid some penalty from the SFA, adding to the muppets feeling of being hard done to.

As for Vlad complaining about others, given his history with his other team, iits plainly madness.

[degenerated]

This is closer to the truth :agree:



SCOTTISH FOOTBALL IN MULTI-POUND COVER UP
01-11-10
REFEREES in the Scottish Premier League have been implicated in a betting ring worth over £10.


Celtic were denied a penalty in their game against Dundee United on 17 October, following a surge of high stake betting in a vile bookmakers in some ghastly part of Glasgow.

Suspicions were later raised when match officials were seen buying brand-name groceries.

A Scottish Football Association spokesman said: "Our league is seen all around the world when there's literally nothing else on television and it must be seen to be clear of any corruption that could stop the same two teams winning everything."

The controversy unfolded after referee Dougie McDonald, 2007's Most Scottish-Sounding Man in Scottish Football, appeared to consult with his linesman over whether it was physically possible to deny Celtic a penalty whenever they felt like one.

It later emerged that earlier that day a 52-year-old Glaswegian had bet £2.20 at odds of five to one that a penalty decision would be overturned.

The spokesman added: "It's incredibly difficult to deal with match fixing in Scottish football for two main reasons - how do you know when the embarrassing ***** is pretend embarrassing ***** and was anyone even watching it in the first place?"

McDonald has denied any wrongdoing, insisting his Heinz and Birds Eye purchases were funded by sale of an elderly relative to Greggs.

[1two]

I've just read the article....
WTF?? Have Hearts been involved in a match recently where theres been a dodgy decision or have they just decided to get involved in this for the sake of it?

Its not even as if its an outsider questioning him, it looks like its an internal Hearts interview and they've decided to tell everyone what they think.
:confused:

[Since90+2]

If it's that easy, why don't you do it?

My point wasnt that its easy to get to that level , yes without doubt it takes time and years of officiating at lower level games , but that not many referees are going to jack it all in given the financial rewards now that they have reached the top level in Scotland.

I know alot of them are in fairly well paid jobs outside of football , but £20,000 - £25,000 extra on top of your normal salary is good money by most peoples standards.

[Twa Cairpets]

My point wasnt that its easy to get to that level , yes without doubt it takes time and years of officiating at lower level games , but that not many referees are going to jack it all in given the financial rewards now that they have reached the top level in Scotland.

I know alot of them are in fairly well paid jobs outside of football , but £20,000 - £25,000 extra on top of your normal salary is good money by most peoples standards.

And how many of them by that reasoning are going to allow themselves to get downgraded or de-listed by displaying clear bias or cheating?

[Since90+2]

And how many of them by that reasoning are going to allow themselves to get downgraded or de-listed by displaying clear bias or cheating?

None I would imagine.

I think you may have missed my original point which was we are not going to see a massive walk out of referees in the game given the fairly substantial earnings they make.

[JimBHibees]

Most senior referees have spent virtually every Saturday afternoon for years refereeing through Amateur, Junior and senior ranks, and i would suggest that their alleigance to any club is at best nominal.

Oddly, I think in the past the opportunity to be biased or influenced was much more significant. it is now much more a career, and one that is analysed in much more minute detail than it used to be with TV and the internet.

I also believe that for the most part, Scottish referees are certainly as good as those in England - pundits who don't know the laws, supporters with an agenda or clubs with a chip on their shoulder doesnt mean that the referees are wrongly applying the laws. As for the old chestnut "Old Firm games are refereed differently", well of course they bloody are. The laws dont change, and the application of matters of law dont change, but the management of the game may well be different. To clarify - the ref will clamp down on fouls early or will maybe allow advatnage as much as possible - these are decisions within the referees remit which they can use to control a game.

But to get back on track. The post from Hearts is one which should bring them a charge of bringing the game into disrepute. It is genuinely scandalous, and they should have the book thrown at them.

If you live in the area which is most affected by the outcome of an Old Firm game I think the impact of any decisions suddenly takes on a new dimension. I am not saying referees are biased however I think their thought process is different when the OF are involved. I think their view is to look for a reason to give a key decision to the OF however it is to look for a reason not to give a decision to a non-OF team playing against one of the OF.

I heard Jeff Winter ex-English Pemier ref indicating that in England the refs would never ref a game in their area obviously it is much easier to do this in Englad due to size and geography however it is probably worth trying out. The argument will no doubt be that there aret the quality of refs outwith West Central Scotland no doubt.

[aberhibsfc]

Reading that, if I was the ref next week I'd give them nowt.
Classless from top to bottom.

You'd give them nowt anyway.

Could be mind games to put the pressure on but if bias came into it, it'd probably backfire as the official may want to teach them a leason.

Could be to point the Jambo masses away from the financial problems, Mad Vlad share dealing and having highly paid dross getting pumped at home by an ex Hibs manager.

[Twa Cairpets]

If you live in the area which is most affected by the outcome of an Old Firm game I think the impact of any decisions suddenly takes on a new dimension. I am not saying referees are biased however I think their thought process is different when the OF are involved. I think their view is to look for a reason to give a key decision to the OF however it is to look for a reason not to give a decision to a non-OF team playing against one of the OF.
That would be bias then, no? Honestly, don't believe it is the case. The Dougie McDonald incident being a case in point.


I heard Jeff Winter ex-English Pemier ref indicating that in England the refs would never ref a game in their area obviously it is much easier to do this in Englad due to size and geography however it is probably worth trying out. The argument will no doubt be that there aret the quality of refs outwith West Central Scotland no doubt.

No, that wouldnt be the argument. Scotland is tiny from a population spread persepctive, with a proportionaly huge number of senior teams squeezed in. Pretty much every town in Scotland has a hun or a tim bus leaving it every weekend, so this geography argument is nonsense - it just doesnt apply. If you have a referee who is chairman of the Larkhall Loyal RFC supporters club or Coatbridge Shamrock CFC supporters then fair enough, but it just doesnt happen.

Do you choose to discriminate on the basis of current address or where they grew up, or where they work maybe? To go down a route like this is to pander to yam, tim and hun paranoia.

[matty_f]

You'd give them nowt anyway.

Could be mind games to put the pressure on but if bias came into it, it'd probably backfire as the official may want to teach them a leason.

Could be to point the Jambo masses away from the financial problems, Mad Vlad share dealing and having highly paid dross getting pumped at home by an ex Hibs manager.

Well, strictly speaking that's not true, I'd give them several red cards and plenty to complain about.:thumbsup:

[JimBHibees]

That would be bias then, no? Honestly, don't believe it is the case. The Dougie McDonald incident being a case in point.



No, that wouldnt be the argument. Scotland is tiny from a population spread persepctive, with a proportionaly huge number of senior teams squeezed in. Pretty much every town in Scotland has a hun or a tim bus leaving it every weekend, so this geography argument is nonsense - it just doesnt apply. If you have a referee who is chairman of the Larkhall Loyal RFC supporters club or Coatbridge Shamrock CFC supporters then fair enough, but it just doesnt happen.

Do you choose to discriminate on the basis of current address or where they grew up, or where they work maybe? To go down a route like this is to pander to yam, tim and hun paranoia.

I suppose it is bias then probably individual rather than institutional :greengrin Are you saying you think each decision is given on the basis of what is seen rather than where it is, who is playing, time of the decision, the likely reaction to said decision etc because personally I dont think that is the case. I would imagine that it would be easier to say turn down a penalty shout at Ibrox for Inverness rather than Rangers. I think there are some good refs in Scotland e.g Calum Murray, Dougie McDonald (though thought he had a horror show in the Utd / Rangers cup ties last season) however they arent helped by the craven nature of the media both written and radio for example.

I tend to agree with you re the geographic argument given how small the country is and to be honest is it fair if an excellent ref misses out on the OF game bacause he lives in Glasgow and let an average from elsewhere get the game.

[Twa Cairpets]

I suppose it is bias then probably individual rather than institutional :greengrin Are you saying you think each decision is given on the basis of what is seen rather than where it is, who is playing, time of the decision, the likely reaction to said decision etc because personally I dont think that is the case. I would imagine that it would be easier to say turn down a penalty shout at Ibrox for Inverness rather than Rangers. I think there are some good refs in Scotland e.g Calum Murray, Dougie McDonald (though thought he had a horror show in the Utd / Rangers cup ties last season) however they arent helped by the craven nature of the media both written and radio for example.


Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying as to do otherwise is blatant cheating.

From refereeing at a much lower level, I promise you do go on the basis of what you see. You dont have time to go through lots of what-if scenarios when there is a "flash-point", such as a penalty box tackle or a decision to send someone off or not. You go with what you think is correct, end of. Whatever you decide will
p!ss someone off, so the rule to follow is always to go with what you think is right.

The conspiracy for the OF is clearly debunkable. If you give or a penalty for Rangers, you're a hun. If you give one to Celtic, you're a tim. If you deny one for either, then you've got it in for them. Unless the same referees swop allegiances week in week out, or a sort of homogenous (and unknown elsewhere) mass of general OF supporter, then they clearly aren't biased one way orthe other.

From a very early stage you realise that refereeing to "balance things up" or to pander to a crowd (even if it is 20 people on a touchline on a public park), is a route to disaster. The referee overseers in the crowd are only marking on what the referee does in a game, and doesnt give a flying toot about what the papers might say about a performance. if you bottle a decision, you'll be marked down and it will stop you progress.

By the way, the way some referees at all levels handle a match is a different thing. Officious, uncommunicative refs be it at senior level or under 13s get my goat, but I still dont think it means they are biased.

[JimBHibees]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying as to do otherwise is blatant cheating.
From refereeing at a much lower level, I promise you do go on the basis of what you see. You dont have time to go through lots of what-if scenarios when there is a "flash-point", such as a penalty box tackle or a decision to send someone off or not. You go with what you think is correct, end of. Whatever you decide will
p!ss someone off, so the rule to follow is always to go with what you think is right.

The conspiracy for the OF is clearly debunkable. If you give or a penalty for Rangers, you're a hun. If you give one to Celtic, you're a tim. If you deny one for either, then you've got it in for them. Unless the same referees swop allegiances week in week out, or a sort of homogenous (and unknown elsewhere) mass of general OF supporter, then they clearly aren't biased one way orthe other.

From a very early stage you realise that refereeing to "balance things up" or to pander to a crowd (even if it is 20 people on a touchline on a public park), is a route to disaster. The referee overseers in the crowd are only marking on what the referee does in a game, and doesnt give a flying toot about what the papers might say about a performance. if you bottle a decision, you'll be marked down and it will stop you progress.

By the way, the way some referees at all levels handle a match is a different thing. Officious, uncommunicative refs be it at senior level or under 13s get my goat, but I still dont think it means they are biased.

Do you think a senior ref has ever cheated?

[Since90+2]

I think the thing we have to accept is that referees at the end of the day are football fans and many moons ago like us they would have played footy with their mates and no doubt supported a team.

All referees will have a leaning towards a team to some degree or another , I would say in 90% of cases this doesnt affect how they officiate a game. It would be naive though to believe that some do not lean towards the team they once followed , its just human nature, unfortunately.

[Hibbyradge]

I think the thing we have to accept is that referees at the end of the day are football fans and many moons ago like us they would have played footy with their mates and no doubt supported a team.

All referees will have a leaning towards a team to some degree or another , I would say in 90% of cases this doesnt affect how they officiate a game. It would be naive though to believe that some do not lean towards the team they once followed , its just human nature, unfortunately.

Does that apply to players who play against the team they support?

[Removed]

Does that apply to players who play against the team they support?

Exactly. Didn't affect swanson on Saturday did it.

[Since90+2]

Does that apply to players who play against the team they support?

Like referees in the majority of cases I would say no but from time to time ive no doubt that certain players on the off occassion would have 'eased' off against their boyhood team.

[Removed]

Like referees in the majority of cases I would say no but from time to time ive no doubt that certain players on the off occassion would have 'eased' off against their boyhood team.

I don't believe that one bit. I think they would try even harder.

[Since90+2]

Exactly. Didn't affect swanson on Saturday did it.

So are you saying that no player in the history of the game has ever took it easy / deliberately switched off in a game against the team he supports?

[Removed]

How can I say that? See my previous post though. I'd say that happens way way more than any player allegedly "taking it easy".

[Since90+2]

How can I say that? See my previous post though. I'd say that happens way way more than any player allegedly "taking it easy".

And i'd agree 100% as I said in my post in the majority of cases I woudnt imagine the player would "take it easy".

I find it hard to believe though that it has never previously happened or wont ever again the future.

[Twa Cairpets]

Do you think a senior ref has ever cheated?

In the modern era, in Scotland, if you mean deliberately and knowingly given a decision against a team on the basis of bias or corruption then I'd say no, I dont think a senior referee has ever cheated.

They've been wrong plenty, but not often on points of laws of the game.

[Removed]

And I think it's the same with referees. I know a current spl ref and what team he supports but I would not be worried in the slightest about him reffing Hibs against them.


Now if he was a Hun then that would be different!!

[Hibbyradge]

Like referees in the majority of cases I would say no but from time to time ive no doubt that certain players on the off occassion would have 'eased' off against their boyhood team.

I would hazard a guess that pretty much every footballer will have supported a team before they played for a senior team.

Many of them will have gone on to play against that previously favoured team.

What proportion of them do you think would have betrayed their colleagues, managers and supporters, by easing off?

Just a rough guess at a percentage.

[Since90+2]

I would hazard a guess that pretty much every footballer will have supported a team before they played for a senior team.

Many of them will have gone on to play against that previously favoured team.

What proportion of them do you think would have betrayed their colleagues, managers and supporters, by easing off?

Just a rough guess at a percentage.

Percentage? No idea. Very small I would think.

Are you suggesting it has never happened?

[Hibbyradge]

Percentage? No idea. Very small I would think.

Are you suggesting it has never happened?

Well, I've seen a lot of football in my life and I have never thought a player was cheating his team mates by not trying against a team he likes.

I have no evidence to suggest that it has ever happened so I'm happy to believe that it hasn't ever happened.

However, the reason I asked for an percentage estimate is because in an earlier post (No.50) you suggested that in 10% of games, referees allow their allegiance to a team to affect the way the officiate.

If that was the case, our football would be more corrupt than any other facet of society.

[Danderhall Hibs]

However, the reason I asked for an percentage estimate is because in an earlier post (No.50) you suggested that in 10% of games, referees allow their allegiance to a team to affect the way the officiate.

If that was the case, our football would be more corrupt than any other facet of society.

Except in Parliament.

[Since90+2]

Well, I've seen a lot of football in my life and I have never thought a player was cheating his team mates by not trying against a team he likes.

I have no evidence to suggest that it has ever happened so I'm happy to believe that it hasn't ever happened.

However, the reason I asked for an percentage estimate is because in an earlier post (No.50) you suggested that in 10% of games, referees allow their allegiance to a team to affect the way the officiate.

If that was the case, our football would be more corrupt than any other facet of society.

Me saying 90% wasnt an exact percentage of games I believe it had affected , more that I believed it was not something that occured as the norm.

Anyway regardless of pinpoint percentages my opinion remains the same. That referees and players on the rare occassion have in the past swayed towards the team they support. To think it has never in the history of football happened before is naive IMO.

[Hibbyradge]

Me saying 90% wasnt an exact percentage of games I believe it had affected , more that I believed it was not something that occured as the norm.

Anyway regardless of pinpoint percentages my opinion remains the same. That referees and players on the rare occassion have in the past swayed towards the team they support. To think it has never in the history of football happened before is naive IMO.

Well, I don't know about that. I concede it may have, but in general referees are honest and try to do their best.

It just seems to me that because a referee, at some undetermined time in history, may or may not have allowed his favouritism to one team or another affect a decision(s), they all get tarred with the corrupt brush.

Until it can be proved otherwise, favouritism is an unfounded allegation.

Professional football clubs, like Hearts, should not be peddling it.

[Since90+2]

Well, I don't know about that. I concede it may have, but in general referees are honest and try to do their best.

.

Yip , would pretty much agree with that statement :agree:

[Jack]

One of the major ‘interpretative decisions’ IMO is around bookings.

Can any of those who are currently defending the refs explain the apparent huge disparity between OF players being booked in the SPL and OF players being booked in euro competition? Or even when they move on to other leagues.

I give you Barry the Ned / Crab stats to discuss ...



Comp Matches Yel x2yel mins play yel/m yel/min]
Euro comps 53 14 0 4816 3.79 334
E Premier League 76 13 1 6701 5.07 447
S Premier League 112 11 1 9643 8.62 742
241 38 2 21160 5.74 504

Yel = yellow card
X2yel = a red card
Mins play = total time on field of play
Yel/m – average of yellows to games played
yel/min = average number of minutes played per yellow card.
So Barry gets booked 66% more often in the EPL and staggeringly (well it is to me) more than double when he played in Europe in comparison with the SPL.

Also, the next time your watching either of the bigots in euro competition, particularly in Glasgow, look at the astonished looks on their faces at some of the decisions that don’t go their way. Says a lot to me.

By way of comparison our very own Steven Fletcher went south. Briefly his stats have gone the other way.

In the SPL he averaged a yellow card every 12 games; that’s now 21 games; a yellow card every 834 minutes in the SPL or 1625 minutes down south.

You could well say different players different positions but to me ?????, make your own mind up.

[Hibbyradge]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]One of the major ‘interpretative decisions’ IMO is around bookings.

I guess the argument is that players of lesser ability tend to foul the more talented guys.

Rangers tend to dominate the vast majority of the domestic games in which they play. They will consequently be fouled against more often than they will commit fouls.

I wonder what Hibs stats were when we were having our "great adventure". :dunno:

In Europe and in the EPL, they are not the most talented on the pitch so they need to foul more often to compensate.

[lapsedhibee]

I guess the argument is that players of lesser ability tend to foul the more talented guys.

Rangers tend to dominate the vast majority of the domestic games in which they play. They will consequently be fouled against more often than they will commit fouls.

I wonder what Hibs stats were when we were having our "great adventure". :dunno:

In Europe and in the EPL, they are not the most talented on the pitch so they need to foul more often to compensate.

True, but Ned The Crab would grab opponents by the throat in the SPL and still not get booked for it. And I'll never forget McGeady's look of utter disbelief when he got redded at ER.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I guess the argument is that players of lesser ability tend to foul the more talented guys.

Rangers tend to dominate the vast majority of the domestic games in which they play. They will consequently be fouled against more often than they will commit fouls.

I wonder what Hibs stats were when we were having our "great adventure". :dunno:

In Europe and in the EPL, they are not the most talented on the pitch so they need to foul more often to compensate.

Steven Fletcher's stats would contradict that. He was playing for a Hibs team that were middle to high up in the SPL, whereas he has since played for two EPL teams that are in the relegation zone. Yet he got booked more often for the team higher up in their division.

[Joe Baker II]

Given Jefferies rant at Parkhead recently - subsequently after which the goals he was complaining about were shown by TV to be clearly legtimate, think anything Hearts FC say on this can be completely ignored.

[Twa Cairpets]

One of the major ‘interpretative decisions’ IMO is around bookings.

Can any of those who are currently defending the refs explain the apparent huge disparity between OF players being booked in the SPL and OF players being booked in euro competition? Or even when they move on to other leagues.

I give you Barry the Ned / Crab stats to discuss ...



Comp Matches Yel x2yel mins play yel/m yel/min]
Euro comps 53 14 0 4816 3.79 334
E Premier League 76 13 1 6701 5.07 447
S Premier League 112 11 1 9643 8.62 742
241 38 2 21160 5.74 504

Yel = yellow card
X2yel = a red card
Mins play = total time on field of play
Yel/m – average of yellows to games played
yel/min = average number of minutes played per yellow card.
So Barry gets booked 66% more often in the EPL and staggeringly (well it is to me) more than double when he played in Europe in comparison with the SPL.

Also, the next time your watching either of the bigots in euro competition, particularly in Glasgow, look at the astonished looks on their faces at some of the decisions that don’t go their way. Says a lot to me.

By way of comparison our very own Steven Fletcher went south. Briefly his stats have gone the other way.

In the SPL he averaged a yellow card every 12 games; that’s now 21 games; a yellow card every 834 minutes in the SPL or 1625 minutes down south.

You could well say different players different positions but to me ?????, make your own mind up.

Far be it from me to defend the Old Firm, repugnant institutions that they are, in anything, but the stats just dont back up bias.

This wee website (http://statbunker.co.uk/football/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=205&statType=discipline) suggests that over the past 4 seasons, at any rate, both of the uglies have been remarkably average, domestically, in terms of yellow and red cards received.

I suspect if you weighted their cards against posession time it would show them in a much worse light.

Still comes back to Hearts spouting p!sh