Getting Rid Of Quality

[Emerald]

Thats what happens when you constantly get rid of any quality you have at the first opportunity and dont replace it. If the team was a balance sheet it would be in the red. :grr:

[Mikey]

Thats what happens when you constantly get rid of any quality you have at the first opportunity and dont replace it. If the team was a balance sheet it would be in the red. :grr:

Really.

[new malkyhib]

Thats what happens when you constantly get rid of any quality you have at the first opportunity and dont replace it. If the team was a balance sheet it would be in the red. :grr:
:top marks
That should be printed up in 120 point capitals, cast and engraved in stone, and hung up in Petrie's office...

[E.T. is a Hibee]

Thats what happens when you constantly get rid of any quality you have at the first opportunity and dont replace it. If the team was a balance sheet it would be in the red. :grr:

Spot on!

Dont worry though Rod, well still pay the better half of £30 for a ticket or £450 for a season ticket!

The product is awful and it is not fair on us Hibs fans!

[KeithTheHibby]

Really.

I didn't see us put up much of a fight to keep Stokes Mikey.

Look what is happening now, zero threat up front and unable to score goals.

[Captain Trips]

Stokes deal was a joke, as long as we got money though never mind the lack of goals as thats not important in football.

[Mikey]

Stokes has been done to death. If you guys want to keep bashing the board with that one it's up to you. It does make you look rather silly though.

[KeithTheHibby]

Stokes has been done to death. If you guys want to keep bashing the board with that one it's up to you. It does make you look rather silly though.

In a nutshell, why did we sell him?

[Captain Trips]

Stokes has been done to death. If you guys want to keep bashing the board with that one it's up to you. It does make you look rather silly though.


I think the lack of goals makes Hibs the silly ones, IMO I think the selling of Stokes went more quietly on here than some in past. Any deal to weaken our goal threat is silly unless crazy money, I think the sale price was the wrong silly.

[new malkyhib]

Stokes has been done to death. If you guys want to keep bashing the board with that one it's up to you. It does make you look rather silly though.

Not half as silly as a UEFA-compliant, 20k capacity stadium potentially 1/3rd full will look in the First Division though Mikey eh?

Everyone knew Stokes would end up at Parkhead - the timing was horrendous though - but hold on, our Board had a loanee lined up to replace him along with a half-fit Lithuanian who's had about 18 clubs.

Lack of foresight, lack of ambition (as ever) from our "listening" Board.

[ScottB]

Can we stop with this crap? We don't have a damn choice!

There's a £2 million hole in our budget each year, we have to try and sell a player each year to break even. So unless you want us to pay even less out in wages than we currently do (thereby attracting a lower quality of player and losing good prospects sooner) to avoid having to sell players then so be it.

As for Stokes, it's been on here numerous times why we punted him, drunk, lazy, gambling, insubordination etc etc etc.

[new malkyhib]

[QUOTE=ScottB;2621144]Can we stop with this crap? We don't have a damn choice!

There's a £2 million hole in our budget each year, we have to try and sell a player each year to break even. So unless you want us to pay even less out in wage than we do (thereby attracting a lower quality of player and losing good prospects sooner) to avoid having to sell players then so be it.

How much lower in "quality" do you want to go Scott? As someone on another thread said, all we're asking for is for better quality replacements to be lined up rather than the conveyor belt of nobodies that we appear to be going back to.

In short, more straight in the first-team quality than quantity - might actually get more from less players for the same money we're shelling out for on all the duds!

[BEEJ]

The team aren't a balance sheet and we have ability in the team, It'll come. Duffy may just be the missing link.
Well, at the very least, the scientific community will be pleased.

:wink:

[KeithTheHibby]

Can we stop with this crap? We don't have a damn choice!

There's a £2 million hole in our budget each year, we have to try and sell a player each year to break even. So unless you want us to pay even less out in wages than we currently do (thereby attracting a lower quality of player and losing good prospects sooner) to avoid having to sell players then so be it.

As for Stokes, it's been on here numerous times why we punted him, drunk, lazy, gambling, insubordination etc etc etc.

So what would have happened if Stokes broke his leg 2 days before his move and it never materialised? No transfer revenue that's what!!

I would imagine that the board are not niaive enough to think that we are producing enough quality year in to sell a player for 1m + each season.

As for your second point I have yet to read anything official about Stokes's antics.
Even if true give me all of the above and 23 goals each year.

[ScottB]

How much lower in "quality" do you want to go Scott? As someone on another thread said, all we're asking for is for better quality replacements to be lined up rather than the conveyor belt of nobodies that we appear to be going back to.

In short, more straight in the first-team quality than quantity - might actually get more from less players for the same money we're shelling out for on all the duds!

Yes but the OP is complaining that we sell off our better players, my point is that we simply don't have an option in order to maintain the level of quality we are currently able to attract, never mind better.

Where do you suggest the money for this new team of quality players is to come from? We had reduced capacity for a chunk of last season, pretty crappy crowds this year and no cup run, we will make a loss this year easily as others have pointed out, we have nobody left to sell.

Less players? As an example we currently have 4 strikers on the books, only one is fit, how many fewer in each position do you envisage? The realities of the SPL and our habit of players constantly being injured suggests we need a decent sized squad to cope. We need to get better at spotting decent players that are in our price range (guys like Rooney at ICT, players we've missed out on like Griffiths, Goodwillie etc) rather than simply expecting some vast pot of cash to appear out of nowhere to pay for it.

Unless of course we all start turning up every second week and fill the stadium, that would help.

[ScottB]

So what would have happened if Stokes broke his leg 2 days before his move and it never materialised? No transfer revenue that's what!!

I would imagine that the board are not niaive enough to think that we are producing enough quality year in to sell a player for 1m + each season.

As for your second point I have yet to read anything official about Stokes's antics.
Even if true give me all of the above and 23 goals each year.

Well the alternative is to cut the playing budget accordingly, the only reason the club hasn't made big losses over the last 5 or 6 years has been through player sales.

It's simple economics mate, either we sell the odd player to supplement our income, or we cut back expenses.

As for Stokes, it's been said many times, and even Rod himself said he was sold for non footballing reasons. Would I liked to have kept him? Sure, but not if he was behaving in the ways that's been said he was up to on here.

[Captain Trips]

Can we stop with this crap? We don't have a damn choice!

There's a £2 million hole in our budget each year, we have to try and sell a player each year to break even. So unless you want us to pay even less out in wages than we currently do (thereby attracting a lower quality of player and losing good prospects sooner) to avoid having to sell players then so be it.

As for Stokes, it's been on here numerous times why we punted him, drunk, lazy, gambling, insubordination etc etc etc.

Right so upto a good manager to deal with those issues, if Yogi cant and then sells him then glad he is away, why would Lennon do better.

[hibees53]

[I] have said since Brown,Thompson ,Sproule, Murphy Etc were all sold off and replaced with cheap duds, that the Hibs board led by cant do no wrong Rodders, have totally no ambition on the playing front,they sit in there ivory towers and could not give a toss about the punters.

[hibees_green]

Can we stop with this crap? We don't have a damn choice!

yep we're so skin that we can afford the best stadium outwith the OF, a shiny new training centre and still be in the black.

We had plenty choice and these are the choices that were made. We now have to accept the results whatever they are but please lets not kid ourselves that we haven't chose this strategy.

[ballengeich]

[I] have said since Brown,Thompson ,Sproule, Murphy Etc were all sold off and replaced with cheap duds, that the Hibs board led by cant do no wrong Rodders, have totally no ambition on the playing front,they sit in there ivory towers and could not give a toss about the punters.

If we never sell players when they get an opportunity to multiply their wages, they'll leave for nothing at the end of their contracts, and future players will only agree to short-term contracts.

Sproule and Murphy also came in for next to nothing. It's up to our manager to identify reasonable replacements - with our wages we should be able to find players capable of challenging for Europe. Skill in the transfer market is one of the attributes we need in our manager.

[new malkyhib]

Yes but the OP is complaining that we sell off our better players, my point is that we simply don't have an option in order to maintain the level of quality we are currently able to attract, never mind better.

Where do you suggest the money for this new team of quality players is to come from? We had reduced capacity for a chunk of last season, pretty crappy crowds this year and no cup run, we will make a loss this year easily as others have pointed out, we have nobody left to sell.

Less players? As an example we currently have 4 strikers on the books, only one is fit, how many fewer in each position do you envisage? The realities of the SPL and our habit of players constantly being injured suggests we need a decent sized squad to cope. We need to get better at spotting decent players that are in our price range (guys like Rooney at ICT, players we've missed out on like Griffiths, Goodwillie etc) rather than simply expecting some vast pot of cash to appear out of nowhere to pay for it.

Unless of course we all start turning up every second week and fill the stadium, that would help.

You've just made my, and the OP's point - we sell Stokes (for whatever reason) for a decent fee yet his replacements are: a Lith nobody's ever heard of, and a guy Duffy (fair play to the guy he's injured) who's had half-a-dozen loan deals in the last two years...what's wrong with instead of signing those two, spending money on the likes of Rooney or Griffiths and paying them a decent wedge - which is maybe the equal to money we're paying for the two jersey fillers?

At least that way the Board have got a better than even chance of getting the fans onside with what looks like a coherent signing policy - or putting it another way they're tacitly saying, well, we know we cannot keep the likes of Stokes, but we'll try and bring in players at the level below him that'll give us a bit continuity.

In short, 40 players of reasonable quality and pedigree over the last 3-4 seasons, rather than 83 in 5 years, where only a handful of have been any good.

There is another way you know, that won't put us the way of Leeds, Gretna, Hearts (who are probably p1shing themselves at us just now), oh aye, and Dundee.

[hibees53]

If we never sell players when they get an opportunity to multiply their wages, they'll leave for nothing at the end of their contracts, and future players will only agree to short-term contracts.

Sproule and Murphy also came in for next to nothing. It's up to our manager to identify reasonable replacements - with our wages we should be able to find players capable of challenging for Europe. Skill in the transfer market is one of the attributes we need in our manager.

Yes I fully appreciate what you are saying,but should we not be using some of the money we are pulling in from transfer fees on suitable replacements, every player we sign seems to be on the cheap,and it does show in there performance on the park.

[truehibernian]

I would say the reason for the poor form is soley down to John Hughes and his backroom team.

The football is pedestrian, we pay three superb salaries for three keepers who are average/poor at best, our midfield is all players of similar stature/ilk, he let go strikers either on loan or released well knowing one or two may be bought/sold. He also panic bought (you know what I mean) last day of the window which for me shouted out loudly that he was inept. Valdas Traky is never a footballer for a top SPL club. His CV should have sent even the quietest of alarm bells ringing !! The pre-season amounted to something ridiculous like 10 games which was dumbfounding. The team is unfit. End of. No time was given to aerobic fitness levels and endurance. The stamina of every single member of the team, bar I would say Bamba, is shocking. The team cling on for dear life or lose late on in games.

Hughes also allowed constant indiscipline, never ever took a hold of it as manager.

You bring in a Falkirk manager, you get Falkirk performances and we are now in Falkirk form SPL wise. Have been since Irvine Meadow IMHO.

We were extremely lucky to be be where we were last season. Last minute deflected goals, dubious penalties awarded at home, sending off's at crucial times in games for the opposition. No manager worth a sook loses a 4 goal advantage in 20 minutes, takes of Riordan at 6-2 up when he is loving his football, and ends up in the national media next day laughing it off saying "these things happen" !

Sorry if that sounds overly harsh, but John Hughes put the team here, as well as the players. I am 100% confident CC will turn it around, once he gets the players fit, disciplined and realising that they are for High Riggs if they don't improve. The players are still in the "Hughes mindset" and until it is drummed out of them, we won't progress. CC will do that and add to it.

The players were protected, molly coddled and became softer than the kind of side Hughes proclaimed in his constant rhetoric he wanted to build. Did he not tell all that who would listen that the Hibs side before he came were regarded as soft ? Look at them now.......putty in our opponents hands.

Hearts are going to steamroll them next week tactically, play long ball after long ball through the middle for Kyle, and attack our left flank. Doesn't matter if we play 3, 4 or 5 in midfield. I would go as far as to say that until Duffy and Zemmama come back, we will be struggling the next three games to pick up any points at all.

January is now the most crucial time for our football team in a decade. If we don't get the signing policy right and the right players in, we may be relegated. It is so real a threat it is untrue.

[Emerald]

You've just made my, and the OP's point - we sell Stokes (for whatever reason) for a decent fee yet his replacements are: a Lith nobody's ever heard of, and a guy Duffy (fair play to the guy he's injured) who's had half-a-dozen loan deals in the last two years...what's wrong with instead of signing those two, spending money on the likes of Rooney or Griffiths and paying them a decent wedge - which is maybe the equal to money we're paying for the two jersey fillers?

At least that way the Board have got a better than even chance of getting the fans onside with what looks like a coherent signing policy - or putting it another way they're tacitly saying, well, we know we cannot keep the likes of Stokes, but we'll try and bring in players at the level below him that'll give us a bit continuity.

In short, 40 players of reasonable quality and pedigree over the last 3-4 seasons, rather than 83 in 5 years, where only a handful of have been any good.

There is another way you know, that won't put us the way of Leeds, Gretna, Hearts (who are probably p1shing themselves at us just now), oh aye, and Dundee.
Exactly my point. :top marks We dont have to spend more money in total, but we need to replace the players we loose using some of the money we rake in. But also, replace them with better quality. This may mean bringing in players and paying them more than our current wages cap. We have 16 players out of contract at the end of the season and they should be more worried about staying in employment than caring someone in the team is earning more. Surely its not too dificult for players to realise that bringing in better quality costs more. The 11 Kia's must understand it costs more to run the new BMW, No?:dunno:

[ScottB]

You've just made my, and the OP's point - we sell Stokes (for whatever reason) for a decent fee yet his replacements are: a Lith nobody's ever heard of, and a guy Duffy (fair play to the guy he's injured) who's had half-a-dozen loan deals in the last two years...what's wrong with instead of signing those two, spending money on the likes of Rooney or Griffiths and paying them a decent wedge - which is maybe the equal to money we're paying for the two jersey fillers?

At least that way the Board have got a better than even chance of getting the fans onside with what looks like a coherent signing policy - or putting it another way they're tacitly saying, well, we know we cannot keep the likes of Stokes, but we'll try and bring in players at the level below him that'll give us a bit continuity.

In short, 40 players of reasonable quality and pedigree over the last 3-4 seasons, rather than 83 in 5 years, where only a handful of have been any good.

There is another way you know, that won't put us the way of Leeds, Gretna, Hearts (who are probably p1shing themselves at us just now), oh aye, and Dundee.

But it's easy to say in hindsight though isn't it? At the time I don't remember anyone complaining about the signing of Nish, De Graaf, Miller etc etc etc. Any signing is a gamble really, and while I wish that we'd made moves for the players I mentioned, there's no guarantee that they'd have been any better for us at the end of the day. Indeed, some of our 'riskier' looking signings have been the best (Bamba) and the ones that fit into the 'spend more, bring in quality' theory have been the worst (Maka, O'Brien et all).

I would think we could do with a refresh of our scouting personnel perhaps, since the clubs around us seem better at finding gems than we do. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't guarantee better players, just more risk to the club.

[new malkyhib]

But it's easy to say in hindsight though isn't it? At the time I don't remember anyone complaining about the signing of Nish, De Graaf, Miller etc etc etc. Any signing is a gamble really, and while I wish that we'd made moves for the players I mentioned, there's no guarantee that they'd have been any better for us at the end of the day. Indeed, some of our 'riskier' looking signings have been the best (Bamba) and the ones that fit into the 'spend more, bring in quality' theory have been the worst (Maka, O'Brien et all).

I would think we could do with a refresh of our scouting personnel perhaps, since the clubs around us seem better at finding gems than we do. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't guarantee better players, just more risk to the club.

So why say then, that they're the kind of player you think we should be going for then backtrack and say there's no guarantee they'll be any better?

I'll guarantee you one thing - Griffiths is better than Trakys, it would only have taken £200k at most to move him from Dundee in their present predicament, and Trakys will be one of a number that the Board will quietly pay off in January, thus costing the club even more money - and all rooted in this "wage cap" of which there's been much debate in the past which is still alive and kicking IMO, and you know what? it doesn't "add up" - and that should be a real source of concern for 3 Chartered Accountants on the Board who can't do any wrong in the eyes of some on here.

And in closing, one question that should be asked of "the Tache" on Monday at the AGM is: "What price relegation Rod"?

[Cropley10]

I would say the reason for the poor form is soley down to John Hughes and his backroom team.

The football is pedestrian, we pay three superb salaries for three keepers who are average/poor at best, our midfield is all players of similar stature/ilk, he let go strikers either on loan or released well knowing one or two may be bought/sold. He also panic bought (you know what I mean) last day of the window which for me shouted out loudly that he was inept. Valdas Traky is never a footballer for a top SPL club. His CV should have sent even the quietest of alarm bells ringing !! The pre-season amounted to something ridiculous like 10 games which was dumbfounding. The team is unfit. End of. No time was given to aerobic fitness levels and endurance. The stamina of every single member of the team, bar I would say Bamba, is shocking. The team cling on for dear life or lose late on in games.

Hughes also allowed constant indiscipline, never ever took a hold of it as manager.

You bring in a Falkirk manager, you get Falkirk performances and we are now in Falkirk form SPL wise. Have been since Irvine Meadow IMHO.

We were extremely lucky to be be where we were last season. Last minute deflected goals, dubious penalties awarded at home, sending off's at crucial times in games for the opposition. No manager worth a sook loses a 4 goal advantage in 20 minutes, takes of Riordan at 6-2 up when he is loving his football, and ends up in the national media next day laughing it off saying "these things happen" !

Sorry if that sounds overly harsh, but John Hughes put the team here, as well as the players. I am 100% confident CC will turn it around, once he gets the players fit, disciplined and realising that they are for High Riggs if they don't improve. The players are still in the "Hughes mindset" and until it is drummed out of them, we won't progress. CC will do that and add to it.

The players were protected, molly coddled and became softer than the kind of side Hughes proclaimed in his constant rhetoric he wanted to build. Did he not tell all that who would listen that the Hibs side before he came were regarded as soft ? Look at them now.......putty in our opponents hands.

Hearts are going to steamroll them next week tactically, play long ball after long ball through the middle for Kyle, and attack our left flank. Doesn't matter if we play 3, 4 or 5 in midfield. I would go as far as to say that until Duffy and Zemmama come back, we will be struggling the next three games to pick up any points at all.

January is now the most crucial time for our football team in a decade. If we don't get the signing policy right and the right players in, we may be relegated. It is so real a threat it is untrue.

Were you there today TH?

Agree with what you say above - despite the 4th place finish - just interested to see whether CC is beginning to get his points across.

[ScottB]

So why say then, that they're the kind of player you think we should be going for then backtrack and say there's no guarantee they'll be any better?

I'll guarantee you one thing - Griffiths is better than Trakys, it would only have taken £200k at most to move him from Dundee in their present predicament, and Trakys will be one of a number that the Board will quietly pay off in January, thus costing the club even more money - and all rooted in this "wage cap" of which there's been much debate in the past which is still alive and kicking IMO, and you know what? it doesn't "add up" - and that should be a real source of concern for 3 Chartered Accountants on the Board who can't do any wrong in the eyes of some on here.

And in closing, one question that should be asked of "the Tache" on Monday at the AGM is: "What price relegation Rod"?

Yes, but then I'm sure most of us were sure that Maka was gonna be a better keeper than we'd had before, that O'Brien was gonna be a quality signing and so on, conversely there were people lining up to say that Bamba was going to be an utter nightmare.

I believe, as you do, that Griffiths would be a good signing, but as I say, you never know until it happens.

[truehibernian]

Missed the game today mate. However my son has just made me smile by saying "och never mind, proud to be a Hibee" :greengrin

Signs from those that went sound heartening. Hart and Grounds in, which says he wants to play players in their righful position. Lewis at left midfield earning plaudits. Galbraith in for some width.

It will though take a month for the players minds to get retuned and into CC's way of thinking IMO. I am trying to be realistic though and say that I don't expect points from the next two games. The derby will be hectic and form counts for nowt (pardon the cliche). The Rangers game is one which we will be up against it and not expected to win.

Motherwell at home is the clincher for me. If we take the next two games to get things settled and correct, maybe lose, but show honesty and commitment, then the only way is up. Duffy, Nish and Zemmama will return at the right time (I hope)......

Four players in January required for me. Two hard battlers in midfield, right winger and striker with pace. The defenders we have are decent and can do a job.

[matty_f]

The biggest problem we have had hasn't been getting rid of quality, it's been not being able to quickly get rid of poor quality.

John Collins' signed a lot of players IIRC, and virtually none of them were a success. Maka and AOB came on huge (in relative terms) wages. He then filled the team with some honking players, really, and when he left it meant that there were a lot of players that needed to be moved on.

As they weren't especially good players, not many clubs were chasing their signatures, so it meant paying off those we could, and letting the others see out their contracts. That all deprived money from Mixu, who had a large squad that were below standard. He brought in quality (Riordan, Murray, JJ -ok didn't work out for him, but he didn't come cheap and had good pedigree) but still had to fill the team with players like Keenan etc.

Then Yogi comes in, again manages to get in a couple of quality players (Miller, Stokes) and then has to make do with what's left of the budget (again hampered by the fact that there are players signed under previous managers that aren't making the grade).

This summer sees the firs point where this situation can realistically be expected to improve, with a vast amount of the squad being able to walk away from the club at no expense to us.

That means CC has scope to make his squad smaller, but of higher quality and we should start to see a rapid reduction in the turnover of players at the club.

[ballengeich]

Yes I fully appreciate what you are saying,but should we not be using some of the money we are pulling in from transfer fees on suitable replacements, every player we sign seems to be on the cheap,and it does show in there performance on the park.

Hang on though :- Collins was given money which he spent on Maka and O'Brien plus other players who were paid above average SPL wages which they didn't deserve. I think Mixu spent money on Nish (who I think's a decent player), Hughes' signings of Stokes and Miller weren't intended to be those of cheap journeymen.

The problem doesn't seem to be the money available, but the failure of successive managers to make best use of it. I'd hoped that Mixu might have contacts in Scandinavia who would enable us to get promising players from there, but it didn't happen.

[ScottB]

Hang on though :- Collins was given money which he spent on Maka and O'Brien plus other players who were paid above average SPL wages which they didn't deserve. I think Mixu spent money on Nish (who I think's a decent player), Hughes' signings of Stokes and Miller weren't intended to be those of cheap journeymen.

The problem doesn't seem to be the money available, but the failure of successive managers to make best use of it. I'd hoped that Mixu might have contacts in Scandinavia who would enable us to get promising players from there, but it didn't happen.

Exactly the point I was making.

We've spent plenty money, I would argue far more than anyone besides the Old Firm and the basketcases in Gorgie anyway, on bringing in players. The issue is the players that have been brought in, not the amount of money being chucked at them.

Simply saying 'well the Board should add another grand a week on to the maximum we can offer a week' doesn't guarantee that the resultant players will be good, and as you say and I pointed out earlier in the thread, most of our recent 'big ticket' 'quality' signings have bombed, then drained the wage bill for the length of their contracts, hampering efforts to build up the rest of the squads average quality.

Do we want to try and up the overall quality level of the squad as a whole, or risk it all on 2 or 3 'quality' signings? I know which option would worry me at the most...

[FitbaFolkKen]

Surely the issue is a poor use of the budget by the previous managers?...And let's be honest if the board have tightened the strings and cut off previous managers...would you happily extend budgets with the track record of signings that were made?

There has to be a point where enough is enough, and the contract situation must have been managed by the board to give the opportunity to start fresh, which gives the indication that Calderwood will get a real opportunity to build a team.

[blackpoolhibs]

Surely the issue is a poor use of the budget by the previous managers?...And let's be honest if the board have tightened the strings and cut off previous managers...would you happily extend budgets with the track record of signings that were made?

There has to be a point where enough is enough, and the contract situation must have been managed by the board to give the opportunity to start fresh, which gives the indication that Calderwood will get a real opportunity to build a team.

:top marks

[--------]

[I] have said since Brown,Thompson ,Sproule, Murphy Etc were all sold off and replaced with cheap duds, that the Hibs board led by cant do no wrong Rodders, have totally no ambition on the playing front,they sit in there ivory towers and could not give a toss about the punters.

Ivory towers?

I was down by ER last night, and I saw 4 stands, and office building, and a concourse. Nae ivory towers.

They were turned down for planning permission for them. :rolleyes:

[ScottB]

Ivory towers?

I was down by ER last night, and I saw 4 stands, and office building, and a concourse. Nae ivory towers.

They were turned down for planning permission for them. :rolleyes:

Honestly, did anybody seriously expect us to be able to replace Scott Brown with as good a player, or the rest of that crop of youth players?

Personally I think we got a damn good length of time out of the likes of Brown and Fletcher, indeed Stokes aside I don't think you can realistically object to any of the fees we've got in recently either.

Was it that Boards fault that Collins squandered his playing budget on dross? No, and we only got free of the last of those in the summer.

[Kaiser1962]

Stokes has been done to death. If you guys want to keep bashing the board with that one it's up to you. It does make you look rather silly though.

I dont recall us setting the heather on fire in the latter half of last season WITH Stokes.

And references keep getting made to "getting rid" of players when it's the players themselves who are "getting rid" of Hibs. Does anybody seriously expect us to pay £10k a week for players (£28k in Scott Browns case)? Really?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thats what happens when you constantly get rid of any quality you have at the first opportunity and dont replace it. If the team was a balance sheet it would be in the red. :grr:

:hmmm: You mean there's another way?

[Kaiser1962]

The baggage that comes with Griffiths negates this and, despite the talk on here, clubs are hardly knocking Dundee's door down to get him.

Of course Leigh may have grown up a bit :cool2: but if not then he makes Stokes look like a model professional.


Yes, but then I'm sure most of us were sure that Maka was gonna be a better keeper than we'd had before, that O'Brien was gonna be a quality signing and so on, conversely there were people lining up to say that Bamba was going to be an utter nightmare.

I believe, as you do, that Griffiths would be a good signing, but as I say, you never know until it happens.

[ScottB]

The baggage that comes with Griffiths negates this and, despite the talk on here, clubs are hardly knocking Dundee's door down to get him.

Of course Leigh may have grown up a bit :cool2: but if not then he makes Stokes look like a model professional.

Very much so, as I said, just spending more on players doesn't mean we will find ourselves with a team full of top performing professionals.

Particularly when we manage to get our hands on real quality, they are almost always going to be damaged goods, and therefore a risky move, as Griffiths would be, as Stokes and Miller were etc etc.