The Board... RP in particular

[DAZ86]

Afew threads recently questioning the boards ability to hire managers and some actually calling for RP's head. Laughable.

The facts are we ahve hired good managers with a large % of the fans backing every time. We have a lot off the park to be proud of and I think we need to start realising that , our time will come , be patient.

Its not their fault they havent worked , I actually praise them for getting in quick and not making us go down the route of bottom six and relegation battles.

As for folk who got on at CC on saturday , get a grip. He has went with Evans and Stevenson to pick the team , now he knows what is needed. He will get a good indication of who out the 16 should go and who should stay, which is positive. I personally counted 9 who I didnt see as 3rd or 4th place players.

I think we need to give CC four or five years to really have a go at it , some great things off the park , lets now do it on the park , and get right behind the team !!

GGTTH

[Cropley10]

Afew threads recently questioning the boards ability to hire managers and some actually calling for RP's head. Laughable.

The facts are we ahve hired good managers with a large % of the fans backing every time. We have a lot off the park to be proud of and I think we need to start realising that , our time will come , be patient.

Its not their fault they havent worked , I actually praise them for getting in quick and not making us go down the route of bottom six and relegation battles.

As for folk who got on at CC on saturday , get a grip. He has went with Evans and Stevenson to pick the team , now he knows what is needed. He will get a good indication of who out the 16 should go and who should stay, which is positive. I personally counted 9 who I didnt see as 3rd or 4th place players.

I think we need to give CC four or five years to really have a go at it , some great things off the park , lets now do it on the park , and get right behind the team !!

GGTTH

8 managers in 10 years. 83 players and five managers since 2005

Absolutely nothing at all whatsoever to do with the Board. :agree:

[DAZ86]

And I presume out of those 8 managers you were happy with who they signed and where we finished??

That might be an insight into why they where sacked.

Take Yogi for an example , most fans wanted him yet most also wanted rid of him.

Oh and 83 players?? Most poor deadline day deals who were brought in to the managers downfall.

[mikethehibee69]

:blah::wink:

[Kaiser1962]

So what about Calderwood? Does he meet with your approval or if not who would you have got instead?


8 managers in 10 years. 83 players and five managers since 2005

Absolutely nothing at all whatsoever to do with the Board. :agree:

[At The Edge]

Afew threads recently questioning the boards ability to hire managers and some actually calling for RP's head. Laughable.

The facts are we ahve hired good managers with a large % of the fans backing every time. We have a lot off the park to be proud of and I think we need to start realising that , our time will come , be patient.

Its not their fault they havent worked , I actually praise them for getting in quick and not making us go down the route of bottom six and relegation battles.

As for folk who got on at CC on saturday , get a grip. He has went with Evans and Stevenson to pick the team , now he knows what is needed. He will get a good indication of who out the 16 should go and who should stay, which is positive. I personally counted 9 who I didnt see as 3rd or 4th place players.

I think we need to give CC four or five years to really have a go at it , some great things off the park , lets now do it on the park , and get right behind the team !!

GGTTH

AFAIK no-one did get on at CC? most folks knew that CC wouldn't have had much input into Saturdays team,
We should start to see this week changes (if any) that CC is looking at.

CC will get time, as has been mentioned on this forum, come the summer hes got a big broom to get rid of a load of players if he so wishes.

His honeymoon period isn't over yet :wink:

[Cropley10]

So what about Calderwood? Does he meet with your approval or if not who would you have got instead?

CC has a great deal more going for him than many of his predecessors and is absolutely the right man for the job.

[Kaiser1962]

CC has a great deal more going for him than many of his predecessors and is absolutely the right man for the job.

We might disagree on RP but at least we agree on this :greengrin

I do hope that he is given the time to clear out those out of contract and bring in some quality. I think we need at least 18 months before we can realistically pass any sort of judgement so lets hope he is given that time.

[Cropley10]

And I presume out of those 8 managers you were happy with who they signed and where we finished??

That might be an insight into why they where sacked.

Take Yogi for an example , most fans wanted him yet most also wanted rid of him.

Oh and 83 players?? Most poor deadline day deals who were brought in to the managers downfall.

Confusion alert!

Who brought the 83 players in? Who sanctioned these signings?

It is a massive exagerration to say that most fans wanted Yogi too.

Keep trying though!

[Cropley10]

We might disagree on RP but at least we agree on this :greengrin

I do hope that he is given the time to clear out those out of contract and bring in some quality. I think we need at least 18 months before we can realistically pass any sort of judgement so lets hope he is given that time.

We have NO alternative but to stick with CC for at least two full seasons. We cannot keep changing managers. It's crazy!

[Kaiser1962]

We have NO alternative but to stick with CC for at least two full seasons. We cannot keep changing managers. It's crazy!

I agree.

Your previous post asked who sanctioned the signing of 83 players? Of course it was Petrie but whats the man to do C10? Does he get the players the manager targets or does he say no? Collins alluded to the fact that he didnt get his "targets" but when challenged he couldn't come up with one apart from Naismith who we bid plenty for but was never coming here. Yet Mixu and Mowbray both say they had an excellent relationship with him and that he was very supportive. Yogi seems to have gotten on ok and judging by some of his signings then Petrie backed him as well.

[greenlex]

8 managers in 10 years. 83 players and five managers since 2005

Absolutely nothing at all whatsoever to do with the Board. :agree:
3 of those managers left to take up other positions and 1 left because he thought he couldn't progress us any further. They were relatively successful at Hibs to be able to do that. Let's not let. facts get in the way of a good old Board/ Petrie bashing.
50% success rate is too bad is it? could be even better as the present incumbent is in the 8.

[Crazyhorse]

CC has a great deal more going for him than many of his predecessors and is absolutely the right man for the job.

I think you're right (well I hope) but obviously our support for him will be dependent on results. If he loses every game from now until May and takes us down I'll not be voting for him to lead us on another great 'adventure'.

But I'm hoping he can make us a bit more difficult to beat and getting some sort of result in the derby would be nice...

[Ray_]

3 of those managers left to take up other positions and 1 left because he thought he couldn't progress us any further. They were relatively successful at Hibs to be able to do that. Let's not let. facts get in the way of a good old Board/ Petrie bashing.
50% success rate is too bad is it? could be even better as the present incumbent is in the 8.

Really pushing it there with 3 taking up positions, Williamson jumped before being pushed & that makes it 25% that left to better themselves. Collins brought a lot of dross to the club, it might have made a difference it he had more cash though, although the fans can hardly be blamed on that one, they had been pouring record amounts of dosh in to Hibs & it was the board & Petrie decisions that left us watching three, going on four years of dross..

[blackpoolhibs]

We have NO alternative but to stick with CC for at least two full seasons. We cannot keep changing managers. It's crazy!

What happens if he has a good start, wins a lot of games then has a bad run from say february until september or october?

[matty_f]

Really pushing it there with 3 taking up positions, Williamson jujmped before being pushed & that makes it 25% that left to better themselves. Collins brought a lot of dross to the club, it might have made a difference it he had more cash though, although the fans can hardly be blamed on that one, they had been pouring record amounts of dosh in to Hibs & it was the board & Petrie decisions that left us watching three going on four years of dross..

While backing the manager by getting the training centre built, something labelled a priority by mowbray and collins. He also gave collins a good wedge to bring aob and maka to the club. I don't remember how many players collins signed, but he was backed.
In fact I remember we outbid the huns for naismith at one point, and were priced out of a move for robson but not before trying to sign him.
When collins left, the board did the right thing and tried to build mixu's squad but they still had to deal with emptying some of the remaining players, same for yogi taking over from mixu. We don't have a bottomless pit of money, there's only do much the board can give the managers, it's down to the manager to decide if he wants ten crap players or a couple of really good ones.

[greenlex]

Really pushing it there with 3 taking up positions, Williamson jumped before being pushed & that makes it 25% that left to better themselves. Collins brought a lot of dross to the club, it might have made a difference it he had more cash though, although the fans can hardly be blamed on that one, they had been pouring record amounts of dosh in to Hibs & it was the board & Petrie decisions that left us watching three, going on four years of dross..
Do you know fir a fact Williamsonjumped before he was pushed? Do you know what his targets as manager of Hibs were when he took the reigns? Do you think a club would pay compensation to another club fir an unsuccesful manager they would get for nothing if they waited? ( Mowbray going home to boro is an exception) The facts are he went to better himself. He was at Hibs at the start of a huge cost cutting excercise and had to use the youngsters.

[Kaiser1962]

Williamson was offered a contract but not on the same wages and he chose to leave and join Plymouth. I dont remember rioting in the streets.

Incidently this was post-McLeish when our board "invested" heavily in the team and we were left, as you say, having to play youngsters cos we did not have a pot to piss in.


Do you know fir a fact Williamsonjumped before he was pushed? Do you know what his targets as manager of Hibs were when he took the reigns? Do you think a club would pay compensation to another club fir an unsuccesful manager they would get for nothing if they waited? ( Mowbray going home to boro is an exception) The facts are he went to better himself. He was at Hibs at the start of a huge cost cutting excercise and had to use the youngsters.

[Cropley10]

What happens if he has a good start, wins a lot of games then has a bad run from say february until september or october?

And say didn't finish 4th?

[number 27]

I agree.

Your previous post asked who sanctioned the signing of 83 players? Of course it was Petrie but whats the man to do C10? Does he get the players the manager targets or does he say no? Collins alluded to the fact that he didnt get his "targets" but when challenged he couldn't come up with one apart from Naismith who we bid plenty for but was never coming here. Yet Mixu and Mowbray both say they had an excellent relationship with him and that he was very supportive. Yogi seems to have gotten on ok and judging by some of his signings then Petrie backed him as well.


Mixu most certainly did not feel supported by RP particularly in terms of signing new players.

[new malkyhib]

While backing the manager by getting the training centre built, something labelled a priority by mowbray and collins. He also gave collins a good wedge to bring aob and maka to the club. I don't remember how many players collins signed, but he was backed.
In fact I remember we outbid the huns for naismith at one point, and were priced out of a move for robson but not before trying to sign him.
When collins left, the board did the right thing and tried to build mixu's squad but they still had to deal with emptying some of the remaining players, same for yogi taking over from mixu. We don't have a bottomless pit of money, there's only do much the board can give the managers, it's down to the manager to decide if he wants ten crap players or a couple of really good ones.

Disagree - we've missed out on players - Hammell for one - because Petrie wouldn't sanction a £500 a week rise from what he was getting at Southend.

It's these restrictions placed on the manager by the Board that see us signing/borrowing 4 players in the last window who are no better than what we have instead of buying in proven qualilty. A Jim Duffy-esque signing policy that will take us if not down to the First Division, but mighty close IMO.

And if we do get relegated there'll still be some of Petrie's disciples on here who'll preach "patience/best infastructure in the league/best Chairman in the world" etc., without any sense of irony...

[Kaiser1962]

Mixu most certainly did not feel supported by RP particularly in terms of signing new players.

He certainly sang Petrie's praises in the Scotsman before the Killie game at ER.

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Interview-Mixu-Paatelainen.6584043.jp?articlepage=3

"At the time, it was assumed the "changes" would have necessitated funds which were refused him. "If we're talking about Rod Petrie then this is a fantastic chairman," he says. "Rod's been first-class - better than that - for Hibs." So his relationship with the man who may end up as having driven the hardest bargains in the entire history of Scottish football was always good? "Yes for sure. Rod's honorable, honest and people don't know this but he has a great sense of humour. In our meetings we'd sometimes be pissing ourselves laughing. Between all the serious stuff, of course."

[BryanV]

He certainly said so in The Scotsman before the Killie game at ER

Mixu paid fees for at least four players, I don't think he will be afforded that luxury at Killie.

[number 27]

He certainly said so in The Scotsman before the Killie game at ER


Understandably he has no interest in public fall-outs but I am certain beyond any doubt that Mixu felt frustrated and let down by the board's attitude when he tried to bring in new players.

[new malkyhib]

He certainly said so in The Scotsman before the Killie game at ER

...and he said something different in terms of being able to bring in players at Kilmarnock more easily at ER.

Paatelainen brought in Zarabi, another useless player who played about a dozen games and then was paid off IIRC. We had to wait until Nish was cup-tied before Petrie sanctioned signing him, thus negotiating a lower fee - meantime we got knocked out the cup by Rangers in the interim; now whether you love him or loathe him, we could have done with Nish in that game against Rangers, but no, "prudence" again won the day over the team.

Can anyone on this forum tell me of one instance when the club have sold a player to the Ugllies, and then went out and signed a recognised player for a decent fee immediately after? - because I certainly can't.

83 players being signed in 10 years(if that particular poster is correct) of this Board's stewardship is a stat that needs no further comment - that's nearly a new team every season - no wonder we're always "in transition".:bitchy:

[stantonhibby]

...and he said something different in terms of being able to bring in players at Kilmarnock more easily at ER.

Paatelainen brought in Zarabi, another useless player who played about a dozen games and then was paid off IIRC. We had to wait until Nish was cup-tied before Petrie sanctioned signing him, thus negotiating a lower fee - meantime we got knocked out the cup by Rangers in the interim; now whether you love him or loathe him, we could have done with Nish in that game against Rangers, but no, "prudence" again won the day over the team.

Can anyone on this forum tell me of one instance when the club have sold a player to the Ugllies, and then went out and signed a recognised player for a decent fee immediately after? - because I certainly can't.

83 players being signed in 10 years(if that particular poster is correct) of this Board's stewardship is a stat that needs no further comment - that's nearly a new team every season - no wonder we're always "in transition".:bitchy:



talk about rewriting history !

The quote from Mixu when Nish signed suggests it was him who delayed the signing rather than the board ?

" "Colin Nish was a name that was put to me straightaway when I came in but I couldn't decide because I hadn't seen the player," said Paatelainen.

"I knew he was a tall centre-forward who had scored a couple of goals but after seeing him I decided he is a player who will hopefully help us.

"Hopefully we can develop him further."

as for the cup game v Rangers that was the 0-0 game at ER where McGregor was sent off in the last minute . looking at the team that day it must have been Fletcher up front supported by Shiels & Zemmama . Not sure where Nish would have fitted into that formation ?

[BEEJ]

Understandably he has no interest in public fall-outs but I am certain beyond any doubt that Mixu felt frustrated and let down by the board's attitude when he tried to bring in new players.


...and he said something different in terms of being able to bring in players at Kilmarnock more easily at ER.
:agree:

Before that Scotsman interview, what he said in his interview in the NOTW on 19 September was quite different.


Paatelainen didn't launch any verbal volleys at Petrie but he still makes his feelings on his time at the club clear for the first time. He said: "A manager can only play the system your players allow you to.

"My hope at Hibs was to play the way we do here, to get the full-backs forward, to play a certain way but I wasn't able to because of the personnel.

"At Hibs, the ideal player for me would have been David Murphy but the first weekend I was there he was sold to Birmingham. After there was no overlapping full-back.

"We had other positions we were short in as well. There were quality players there, still are, no question, but we had to play differently, I had to adjust my way of playing."

It's interesting that Mixu's tone in the two interviews is quite different. He's certainly more onside in the later Scotsman piece.

[matty_f]

While backing the manager by getting the training centre built, something labelled a priority by mowbray and collins. He also gave collins a good wedge to bring aob and maka to the club. I don't remember how many players collins signed, but he was backed.
In fact I remember we outbid the huns for naismith at one point, and were priced out of a move for robson but not before trying to sign him.
When collins left, the board did the right thing and tried to build mixu's squad but they still had to deal with emptying some of the remaining players, same for yogi taking over from mixu. We don't have a bottomless pit of money, there's only do much the board can give the managers, it's down to the manager to decide if he wants ten crap players or a couple of really good ones.

Disagree - we've missed out on players - Hammell for one - because Petrie wouldn't sanction a £500 a week rise from what he was getting at Southend.

It's these restrictions placed on the manager by the Board that see us signing/borrowing 4 players in the last window who are no better than what we have instead of buying in proven qualilty. A Jim Duffy-esque signing policy that will take us if not down to the First Division, but mighty close IMO.

And if we do get relegated there'll still be some of Petrie's disciples on here who'll preach "patience/best infastructure in the league/best Chairman in the world" etc., without any sense of irony...

Collins wanted Hammell at a time when he's already spent most of the budget on players of varying degrees of quality, but mostly pish ones.
There's only so much money the board can spend- that 500 a week is about 24k over the year. That's not an insignificant amount at hibs.

[greenlex]

83 players over how many managers? I think it's the board backing the different managers. No wait it can't be can it?
...and he said something different in terms of being able to bring in players at Kilmarnock more easily at ER.

Paatelainen brought in Zarabi, another useless player who played about a dozen games and then was paid off IIRC. We had to wait until Nish was cup-tied before Petrie sanctioned signing him, thus negotiating a lower fee - meantime we got knocked out the cup by Rangers in the interim; now whether you love him or loathe him, we could have done with Nish in that game against Rangers, but no, "prudence" again won the day over the team.

Can anyone on this forum tell me of one instance when the club have sold a player to the Ugllies, and then went out and signed a recognised player for a decent fee immediately after? - because I certainly can't.

83 players being signed in 10 years(if that particular poster is correct) of this Board's stewardship is a stat that needs no further comment - that's nearly a new team every season - no wonder we're always "in transition".:bitchy:

[Lucius Apuleius]

I am one of these poor Hibbies who has absolutely no insight as to what goes on at board room level of my beloved club. However, I do not believe for one minute it was RP who went and scouted these much touted 83 players, RP who then decided which of these thousands, he must have seen to come down to the 83 for signing, would fit into one of these much touted 8 manager's plans. If anything is wrong I would say it is the scouting system that needs looked at going by these statistics.

Yogi, universally wanted by Hibs fans? I think every Hibs fan I spoke to, in my house with my sons, in the pub with my mates (bear in mind I stay in Falkirk district so a lot of my mates had him as their team's manager), at the game with those around me, thought he would be great manager, except me unfotunately. I take no solace in that at all.

From memory the only manager I heard wide condemantion of was Mowbray. Is it not wonderful how history changes as we look back?

In essence, what I am saying is I do not blame the board for the cr'p team we have, it is down to the individual managers we have had. The sad thing is in hindsight, Hughes was probably doing the right thing, signing journeymen on short term contracts so as they all expired at the same time. This would have allowed him to bring in what he wanted. IMO of course.

[RIP]

I don't think the rest of the board have anything to do with this - for me it's about Rod and his strengths and weaknesses

As a businessman I think he is guidd by Sir Tom in clearing the debt and building our infrastructure

As a Director of Football he sells players wonderfully. He replaces them badly. He lines up players for incoming managers based on who is available, who is free or cheap (within his view of our budget). With hindsight I would say that allowing every manager to turn over so many players has been to our cost.

Most of these transitional players lacked commitment to playing for Hibs. The last few years has also been marred with stories of short training sessions and poor off-field discipline.

Not so long ago we had a team of U19 champions all bursting a gut to play in the Green and White. I think Yogi showed true vision in letting so many contracts run out and farming out the young guys on loan. I think Yogi's team of 2010 / 2011 would have had a very different look about it.

Hopefully Rod and Colin can work closely enough this season to avoid bringing in more journeymen fillers in January. That would lay the platform for a true rebuilding job in the close season. As long as we don't get relegated in May - I think it's a price well worth paying

[greenlex]

So are you telling me Rod Petrie lined up Akan O'Brien. Maka' Zarabi, Morias, Joneleit, Stokes, Gow, McBride Miller etc etc? You could insert any player you want really. Do you really believe that?
There is a playing staff budget. It's up to thecmanager how that is spent not Rod Petrie.
When it's gone it's gone. I beleive that's why Collins went when we didn't go over it ( possibly for Hammil)sighting he has taken the club as far as he could. I also think this is what Mixu is alluding to about restrictions on player signings. I don't know this for sure but would wager some dish I won't be far away. This is also why Hughes talked about shuffling the pack regards comings and goings in the close season. With higher earners in Stokes Riordan and Miller there won't be much left and that us why the wheeling and dealing at the end if the window happens. It's nothing to do with Rod and everything to do with the managers getting the right balance. Hopefully Calderwood will get it right.
that
I don't think the rest of the board have anything to do with this - for me it's about Rod and his strengths and weaknesses

As a businessman I think he is guidd by Sir Tom in clearing the debt and building our infrastructure

As a Director of Football he sells players wonderfully. He replaces them badly. He lines up players for incoming managers based on who is available, who is free or cheap (within his view of our budget). With hindsight I would say that allowing every manager to turn over so many players has been to our cost.

Most of these transitional players lacked commitment to playing for Hibs. The last few years has also been marred with stories of short training sessions and poor off-field discipline.

Not so long ago we had a team of U19 champions all bursting a gut to play in the Green and White. I think Yogi showed true vision in letting so many contracts run out and farming out the young guys on loan. I think Yogi's team of 2010 / 2011 would have had a very different look about it.

Hopefully Rod and Colin can work closely enough this season to avoid bringing in more journeymen fillers in January. That would lay the platform for a true rebuilding job in the close season. As long as we don't get relegated in May - I think it's a price well worth paying

[Cropley10]

I don't think the rest of the board have anything to do with this - for me it's about Rod and his strengths and weaknesses

As a businessman I think he is guidd by Sir Tom in clearing the debt and building our infrastructure

As a Director of Football he sells players wonderfully. He replaces them badly. He lines up players for incoming managers based on who is available, who is free or cheap (within his view of our budget). With hindsight I would say that allowing every manager to turn over so many players has been to our cost.

Most of these transitional players lacked commitment to playing for Hibs. The last few years has also been marred with stories of short training sessions and poor off-field discipline.

Not so long ago we had a team of U19 champions all bursting a gut to play in the Green and White. I think Yogi showed true vision in letting so many contracts run out and farming out the young guys on loan. I think Yogi's team of 2010 / 2011 would have had a very different look about it.


I don't get this bit - so there was a 'masterplan'? Yogi would have been shopping for a completely new team from January to August 11?

Thinking about this - it's unprecedented. I can't think of another team who have done this, it's not exactly a blueprint for success is it? It goes against all convention in football and would have been a huge risk. Agents and players know we HAVE to sign players and this weakens our bargaining position, surely?

Alternatively - and as a consequence of having 83 players in 5 years - the Board end up thinking that long term deals are too risky, so they get into the habit of handing out shorter contracts. So, from the 3 year deals Mixu signed players on we moved to Yogi's 2 and even 1 year deals.

I don't think it was a masterplan at all. In fact quite the opposite. If everyone had agreed to this plan, why sack Yogi? If the SPL is going to grow to 14 teams and no relegation this year then what's the hassle? Sure it wouldn't have been pretty but I just don't buy this idea that in May Yogi and RP were going to be out shopping for a completely new team...

[BEEJ]

Collins wanted Hammell at a time when he's already spent most of the budget on players of varying degrees of quality, but mostly pish ones.

There's only so much money the board can spend- that 500 a week is about 24k over the year. That's not an insignificant amount at hibs.
It's interesting though when you reflect upon the make-up of the squad that JC left in December 2007 compared to the squad in May 2007.

We 'lost' so many players of quality in the summer clearout, many of whom would have been on relatively high salaries. Are we seriously saying that the likes of Joneleit, Noubissie and Ghatteussi were on similar wages to Stewart and Brown?

So unless the player budget was cut in season 2007/08, we don't really know that Collins budget was spent by January - particularly as the new player in question was going to replace the departing David Murphy who would have been one of our higher paid players.

I'm more inclined to think that the issue then was the wage ceiling or structure that existed at Hibs in JC's day and the point was that RP did not want this to be broken.

I also think this is what Mixu was alluding to in his NOTW interview last month.

[matty_f]

It's interesting though when you reflect upon the make-up of the squad that JC left in December 2007 compared to the squad in May 2007.

We 'lost' so many players of quality in the summer clearout, many of whom would have been on relatively high salaries. Are we seriously saying that the likes of Joneleit, Noubissie and Ghatteussi were on similar wages to Stewart and Brown?

So unless the player budget was cut in season 2007/08, we don't really know that Collins budget was spent by January - particularly as the new player in question was going to replace the departing David Murphy who would have been one of our higher paid players.

I'm more inclined to think that the issue then was the wage ceiling or structure that existed at Hibs in JC's day and the point was that RP did not want this to be broken.

I also think this is what Mixu was alluding to in his NOTW interview last month.

it's conjecture, I don't think anyone was on especially good contacts at the time, though I agree that it's unlikely that the mentioned players were on more, I would suggest that maka and aob were on more, considerably more.

[Speedway]

So are you telling me Rod Petrie lined up Akan O'Brien. Maka' Zarabi, Morias, Joneleit, Stokes, Gow, McBride Miller etc etc? You could insert any player you want really. Do you really believe that?
There is a playing staff budget. It's up to thecmanager how that is spent not Rod Petrie.
When it's gone it's gone. I beleive that's why Collins went when we didn't go over it ( possibly for Hammil)sighting he has taken the club as far as he could. I also think this is what Mixu is alluding to about restrictions on player signings. I don't know this for sure but would wager some dish I won't be far away. This is also why Hughes talked about shuffling the pack regards comings and goings in the close season. With higher earners in Stokes Riordan and Miller there won't be much left and that us why the wheeling and dealing at the end if the window happens. It's nothing to do with Rod and everything to do with the managers getting the right balance. Hopefully Calderwood will get it right.
that

If it's a Royal Doulton, I'll take that wager.

[Ray_]

it's conjecture, I don't think anyone was on especially good contacts at the time, though I agree that it's unlikely that the mentioned players were on more, I would suggest that maka and aob were on more, considerably more.

Brown & Thomson had been given a rise around March 2006, so they were on better money than they had been.

[new malkyhib]

83 players over how many managers? I think it's the board backing the different managers. No wait it can't be can it?

...and how many really good ones out of the 83? and once again, answer me this - how many times have we trousered a massive fee for a player sale, and then went out the next day and bought a seasoned, straight-in-the-first-team pro for a decent fee? Because with the exception of Stokes (who lasted a year) I make it one...

[matty_f]

Brown & Thomson had been given a rise around March 2006, so they were on better money than they had been.

Yes, but not as good as the money that AOB and Maka were picking up AFAIK.

[Kaiser1962]

...and how many really good ones out of the 83? and once again, answer me this - how many times have we trousered a massive fee for a player sale, and then went out the next day and bought a seasoned, straight-in-the-first-team pro for a decent fee? Because with the exception of Stokes (who lasted a year) I make it one...

I dont think we "trouser" fees as we sell to make ends meet and theres the rub. We would all have loved to keep the players we sold but its not been possible as not enough of us turn up. Even when we paid large wages and ran up a debt under McLeish we still won hee haw. I would have loved Hartley to have made it at Hibs but he didnt and went on to star elsewhere but I dont see how that can also be Petrie's fault but I'm pretty sure someone will enlighten me that it was.

[new malkyhib]

I dont think we "trouser" fees as we sell to make ends meet and theres the rub. We would all have loved to keep the players we sold but its not been possible as not enough of us turn up. Even when we paid large wages and ran up a debt under McLeish we still won hee haw. I would have loved Hartley to have made it at Hibs but he didnt and went on to star elsewhere but I dont see how that can also be Petrie's fault but I'm pretty sure someone will enlighten me that it was.

...seems to be your stand-by comment that, Kaiser - would you have rather not have seen Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs strip and a supporting cast of Laursen, Paatelainen and John O'Neill, tanking that lot 6-2 and 3-0 at Tynecastle?

[stantonhibby]

...seems to be your stand-by comment that, Kaiser - would you have rather not have seen Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs strip and a supporting cast of Laursen, Paatelainen and John O'Neill, tanking that lot 6-2 and 3-0 at Tynecastle?


it may be a stand by comment but also happens to be true - we did win hee haw ( apart from the SFL1)

as for the rest of your post - what a stupid question

[Kaiser1962]

Its a stand up comment because its true and while enjoyable it almost bust the club. I have never at any time suggested or doubted that you support Hibs or did not want to see them succeed just that we disagreed over this issue.


...seems to be your stand-by comment that, Kaiser - would you have rather not have seen Sauzee and Latapy in a Hibs strip and a supporting cast of Laursen, Paatelainen and John O'Neill, tanking that lot 6-2 and 3-0 at Tynecastle?

[new malkyhib]

it may be a stand by comment but also happens to be true - we did win hee haw ( apart from the SFL1)

as for the rest of your post - what a stupid question

oohhh get her!:dummytit:

[stantonhibby]

[/B]

oohhh get her!:dummytit:


ta:greengrin

[BEEJ]

it's conjecture, I don't think anyone was on especially good contacts at the time, though I agree that it's unlikely that the mentioned players were on more, I would suggest that maka and aob were on more, considerably more.


Brown & Thomson had been given a rise around March 2006, so they were on better money than they had been.


Yes, but not as good as the money that AOB and Maka were picking up AFAIK.
Transfer Dealings in the Summer 2007 Transfer Window

Out
Steven Whittaker
Stephen Glass
Kevin McDonald
Shelton Martis
Jay Shields
Ivan Sproule
Sam Morrow
Thomas Sowumni
Simon Brown
Jamie McLuskey
Jonathan Baillie
Chris Killen
Scott Brown
Michael Stewart

In
Mikael-Antoine Curier
Patrick Noubissie
Filipe Morais
Thierry Ghatteussi
Yves MaKalambay
Torben Joneleit
Alan O'Brien
Brian Kerr
Clayton Donaldson

I've highlighted the names in Bold that would be expected to be on the higher end wage rates within the club.

So 14 players out and 9 in. Five 'high-earners' out and just 3 in.

It's hard to see how in January 2008 JC would have used up his player budget when:

1) David Murphy was about to leave as well.
2) Eventually we found the budget to recruit five players in that January transfer window.

To my mind the blow-up was to do with the limitations created by the club's salary structure. The issue raised more recently about the Board 'influencing' player transfer decisions may also have been pertinent to JC's decision to depart.

(This all leaves to one side the fact that we took in over £8m in player sales during those two windows, spending no more than 10% of that on the incoming players. As we know, club policy is that income from player sales is not used to pay salaries.)

[sesoim]

Afew threads recently questioning the boards ability to hire managers and some actually calling for RP's head. Laughable.

The facts are we ahve hired good managers with a large % of the fans backing every time. We have a lot off the park to be proud of and I think we need to start realising that , our time will come , be patient.

Its not their fault they havent worked , I actually praise them for getting in quick and not making us go down the route of bottom six and relegation battles.

As for folk who got on at CC on saturday , get a grip. He has went with Evans and Stevenson to pick the team , now he knows what is needed. He will get a good indication of who out the 16 should go and who should stay, which is positive. I personally counted 9 who I didnt see as 3rd or 4th place players.

I think we need to give CC four or five years to really have a go at it , some great things off the park , lets now do it on the park , and get right behind the team !!

GGTTH



I agree with some of what you say, but if we DONT think CC is the right appointment, should we just stay quiet, or act like the fools who were all excited when we apoointed Hughes and Collins (both of whom I didn't want for different reasons) or say what we feel?

Everyone can use stats to enhance their argument, but for me, Petre has made one good appointment (Mowbray) and three bad ones. CC might be ok, but there were much better candidates available. For me, if he does flop, Petrie has to take the blame as this is one appointment that VERY few fans would have chosen, and he has completely disregarded guys like the other Calderwood who have proven time and time again they can do a good job in the SPL and elsewhere.

[sesoim]

Its a stand up comment because its true and while enjoyable it almost bust the club. I have never at any time suggested or doubted that you support Hibs or did not want to see them succeed just that we disagreed over this issue.


We didn't go into huge debt because of McLeish's spending - we were never more than £15M in debt, and most of this was spent on the three stands (about £12 or £13M I think), and of course Duffy got us relegated which cost us another £2M.

If we were still getting the same level of TV money now, we could probably maintain a similar standard of squad to the one in 2000/01.

[Kaiser1962]

We didn't go into huge debt because of McLeish's spending - we were never more than £15M in debt, and most of this was spent on the three stands (about £12 or £13M I think), and of course Duffy got us relegated which cost us another £2M.

If we were still getting the same level of TV money now, we could probably maintain a similar standard of squad to the one in 2000/01.

The stadium build, as I recall, was in a separate company than the football club.

[Peevemor]

The stadium build, as I recall, was in a separate company than the football club.

The stadium was, for a time, owned by a separate company but was transfered back to the football club before redevelopment began, in order to qualify for Football Trust grants.

[Caversham Green]

The stadium build, as I recall, was in a separate company than the football club.


The stadium was, for a time, owned by a separate company but was transfered back to the football club before redevelopment began, in order to qualify for Football Trust grants.

Actually, your'e both right/wrong. The holding company built the end stands then sold the ground back to the club (for £2.5m plus shares). The club then built the main stand on the mortgage that's still being repaid.

[greenginger]

Actually, your'e both right/wrong. The holding company built the end stands then sold the ground back to the club (for £2.5m plus shares). The club then built the main stand on the mortgage that's still being repaid.


You mean we did a debt for equity swop back then.

The BIG Team always in our footsteps, always in our shadow. :wink:

[PaulSmith]

Actually, your'e both right/wrong. The holding company built the end stands then sold the ground back to the club (for £2.5m plus shares). The club then built the main stand on the mortgage that's still being repaid.

CG, we have two mortgages on the accounts. One which I assumed was for the FF/South and the other for the West. Is this not correct?

[Caversham Green]

CG, we have two mortgages on the accounts. One which I assumed was for the FF/South and the other for the West. Is this not correct?

No, it appears there was originally only one mortgage of £6.5m, but it was split into two in 2004 presumably to ease cashflow by delaying some of the repayments.

[Caversham Green]

You mean we did a debt for equity swop back then.

The BIG Team always in our footsteps, always in our shadow. :wink:

Aye, the difference is we actually got an asset of lasting value, which is what share issues are supposed to be for.

[new malkyhib]

Transfer Dealings in the Summer 2007 Transfer Window

Out
Steven Whittaker
Stephen Glass
Kevin McDonald
Shelton Martis
Jay Shields
Ivan Sproule
Sam Morrow
Thomas Sowumni
Simon Brown
Jamie McLuskey
Jonathan Baillie
Chris Killen
Scott Brown
Michael Stewart

In
Mikael-Antoine Curier
Patrick Noubissie
Filipe Morais
Thierry Ghatteussi
Yves MaKalambay
Torben Joneleit
Alan O'Brien
Brian Kerr
Clayton Donaldson

I've highlighted the names in Bold that would be expected to be on the higher end wage rates within the club.

So 14 players out and 9 in. Five 'high-earners' out and just 3 in.

It's hard to see how in January 2008 JC would have used up his player budget when:

1) David Murphy was about to leave as well.
2) Eventually we found the budget to recruit five players in that January transfer window.

To my mind the blow-up was to do with the limitations created by the club's salary structure. The issue raised more recently about the Board 'influencing' player transfer decisions may also have been pertinent to JC's decision to depart.

(This all leaves to one side the fact that we took in over £8m in player sales during those two windows, spending no more than 10% of that on the incoming players. As we know, club policy is that income from player sales is not used to pay salaries.)

Well done compiling that - I think it also lends credence to the fact that we sell anything decent and replace them with dross as NONE of the players on the "IN" list are still there.

[Peevemor]

Well done compiling that - I think it also lends credence to the fact that we sell anything decent and replace them with dross as NONE of the players on the "IN" list are still there.

Surely that's JC's fault? I honestly believe that once the board saw how crap an eye he had for a player, they eased him out the door by squeezing his budget for the January window. I think they simply didn't trust him with the club's money.

[Kaiser1962]

Surely that's JC's fault? I honestly believe that once the board saw how crap an eye he had for a player, they eased him out the door by squeezing his budget for the January window. I think they simply didn't trust him with the club's money.

And O'Brien in particular represented a substantial "investment" for the club in terms of the package. Maka similar but not to the quite same extent.

In the OUT portion of the list only three players attracted a fee Whittaker, Sproule and Brown. JC didnt really rate Whittaker, and Brown moved for, allegedly, £28k a week. The only one that we could, as far as I see, realistically made an effort to keep was Sproule.

[Ray_]

And O'Brien in particular represented a substantial "investment" for the club in terms of the package. Maka similar but not to the quite same extent.

In the OUT portion of the list only three players attracted a fee Whittaker, Sproule and Brown. JC didnt really rate Whittaker, and Brown moved for, allegedly, £28k a week. The only one that we could, as far as I see, realistically made an effort to keep was Sproule.

Clique time, at the end of the day the infrastructure improvements and debt reduction is down to a land sale and selling off the proceeds from most prolific period of our youth structure in several decades.

Since then we have had to endure three years of utter garbage on the park, with no signs yet that things will change anytime soon. After the highs, before the [player] sales, the club’s tangible income is in steep decline & will get worse unless on field deficiencies are addressed.

The easy bit has been done, [player & land sales] & it took Collins stand to get something like market value for our players, the hard bit is still a long way off.

To conclude, the value of the club has increased, but that doesn’t help on a Saturday afternoon when the fare on offer is mind numbingly pitiful.

[Kaiser1962]

This is where things get a bit muddy in that I dont see realistically how we could have kept hold of, say, Scott Brown and kept him happy and content other than match the money on offer from Celtic which would have been madness. Ok he was on a contract (as was Thompson and Fletcher for that matter) but holding these players against their will would be a legal minefield. I disagree that we sold them off as such and would argue that they had their heads turned by offers from elsewhere that we could not match and when that happened we had to do what was best for the club. It even happened to Cristiano Ronaldo.

Agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence.


Clique time, at the end of the day the infrastructure improvements and debt reduction is down to a land sale and selling off the proceeds from most prolific period of our youth structure in several decades.

Since then we have had to endure three years of utter garbage on the park, with no signs yet that things will change anytime soon. After the highs, before the [player] sales, the club’s tangible income is in steep decline & will get worse unless on field deficiencies are addressed.

The easy bit has been done, [player & land sales] & it took Collins stand to get something like market value for our players, the hard bit is still a long way off.

To conclude, the value of the club has increased, but that doesn’t help on a Saturday afternoon when the fare on offer is mind numbingly pitiful.

[greenlex]

Your opening two words says a lot Ray. WTF is that all about. Because people hold a differing veiw to yours we are all in cahoots?
We sell players because we can't hold onto them as we can't afford what they are worth. The money has gone into infrastructure and making ends meet.
At a club the size if ours it's either do that or get in debt to keep them and do without the training ground etc. The new stand was esssential to grow when the time comes and wages are what we can afford at present. Get over it.

Clique time, at the end of the day the infrastructure improvements and debt reduction is down to a land sale and selling off the proceeds from most prolific period of our youth structure in several decades.

Since then we have had to endure three years of utter garbage on the park, with no signs yet that things will change anytime soon. After the highs, before the [player] sales, the club’s tangible income is in steep decline & will get worse unless on field deficiencies are addressed.

The easy bit has been done, [player & land sales] & it took Collins stand to get something like market value for our players, the hard bit is still a long way off.

To conclude, the value of the club has increased, but that doesn’t help on a Saturday afternoon when the fare on offer is mind numbingly pitiful.

[Ray_]

Your opening two words says a lot Ray. WTF is that all about. Because people hold a differing veiw to yours we are all in cahoots?
We sell players because we can't hold onto them as we can't afford what they are worth. The money has gone into infrastructure and making ends meet.
At a club the size if ours it's either do that or get in debt to keep them and do without the training ground etc. The new stand was esssential to grow when the time comes and wages are what we can afford at present. Get over it.

Not that difficult "At the end of the day" is a clique, as mentioned with the opening two words i.e. "clique time"?? Differing views & cahoots, where did you get that from?

The jest of what I said was that what Petrie did was nothing exceptional & it was all very basic, reducing the debt & increasing the infrastructure by the sales of players & land, that were available. What's so difficult about that?

Even with the basics, where it wasn't too clever, was the timing of some of the sales i.e O'Connor and the price we were prepared to take for said players, Collins changed the dynamics there, not Petrie.

What also is not clever, is losing your customer base, which with hibs has been on a steady decline over the last three years.

We, as a football club, pay hell of a lot of money for the board &, exchanging available players & land for debt reduction & infrastructure is hardly rocket science.

Where the board should be expected to earn their corn is by providing a product that will increase the cash brought in to the club. This is the part that is not basic sums & it is also the part where our expensive board are failing.

[greenlex]

Explain clique time to me then as I am too thick to understand Ray.
Not that difficult "At the end of the day" is a clique, as mentioned with the opening two words i.e. "clique time"?? Differing views & cahoots, where did you get that from?

The jest of what I said was that what Petrie did was nothing exceptional & it was all very basic, reducing the debt & increasing the infrastructure by the sales of players & land, that were available. What's so difficult about that?

Even with the basics, where it wasn't too clever, was the timing of some of the sales i.e O'Connor and the price we were prepared to take for said players, Collins changed the dynamics there, not Petrie.

What also is not clever, is losing your customer base, which with hibs has been on a steady decline over the last three years.

We, as a football club, pay hell of a lot of money for the board &, exchanging available players & land for debt reduction & infrastructure is hardly rocket science.

Where the board should be expected to earn their corn is by providing a product that will increase the cash brought in to the club. This is the part that is not basic sums & it is also the part where our expensive board are failing.

[Cropley10]

Explain clique time to me then as I am too thick to understand Ray.

I think Ray means cliche :wink:

[greenlex]

I think Ray means cliche :wink:

I see. Thank ****. I thought it was me.

[Ray_]

I see. Thank ****. I thought it was me.

:greengrin I'll put the wine away, well after luchtime anyway:shotdowni

[greenlex]

:greengrin I'll put the wine away, well after luchtime anyway:shotdowni

I'm tea total. Maybe I should start.:greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

I think Ray means cliche :wink:

Thanks for that. :greengrin

Confused me a bit as well but it is Friday. Hopefully we will all be hailing a brand new dawn in 24 hours!

[Ray_]

I'm tea total. Maybe I should start.:greengrin

I'm normally, should maybe stay that way.:greengrin