Willie Collum threatened by Celtc fans

[Sir David Gray]

Sky Sports News reporting that Willie Collum has received threatening phone calls on the back of the Old Firm game at the weekend.

The Greatest Fans In The World, right enough...:bitchy:

[Carheenlea]

They will also take great pleasure in the fact that they have made Steven Craven's life a misery (with his family Also suffering at the hands of the Old Firm morons) to such an extent he has been forced into tendering his resignation.
The Old Firm, Celtic especially, need to take a good look at themselves with their regular cheating of officials and haranguing them when things don't go their way.
Wish that pair would tender their resignation.

[marinello59]

Lennon has shown them the way, harassment of officials has been part of his openly stated game plan this season. Odious club, odious fans, cretinous manager.

[Stevie Reid]

Sky Sports News reporting that Willie Collum has received threatening phone calls on the back of the Old Firm game at the weekend.

The Greatest Fans In The World, right enough...:bitchy:

And this has happened, despite the decision being right: -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/9122545.stm

Just like a few years ago when Derek Stillie got death threats for letting in 6 goals against Rangers when they won the league on the last day of the season a few years back.

Whilst I know it is unfair to tar the all with the same brush as the majority will not be such twisted *******s, conversely it is ridiculous for them to be hailed as "the greatest supporters in the world".

[Broken Gnome]

Not sending off Stokes, ignoring Samaras' incident with McGregor, wrongly booking McCulloch, obviously being the sole root and cause for Celtic blowing a winning position....

Yeah, I don't get it either.

[blackpoolhibs]

Not sending off Stokes, ignoring Samaras' incident with McGregor, wrongly booking McCulloch, obivously being the sole root and cause for Celtic blowing a winning position....

Yeah, I don't get it either.

:agree: They should be calling folk a lot nearer home than the ref.

[Big Frank]

Threatening phone calls from one half of the Old Firm. Shlock horror! They are bawbags to a man.

Always wondered how these officials always seem to give their personal numbers out, and put themselves in line for this abuse :wink:

As in the past, (because this sort of crap has happened with rangers and celtc for years), who's handing out the numbers?


As a side, the ref was extremely poor in that match. The "penalty" being a belter :thumbsup:

As a rule, I love the home team getting a tanking in infirm matches. More of them go home ragin that way :thumbsup:

[(((Fergus)))]

They will also take great pleasure in the fact that they have made Steven Craven's life a misery (with his family Also suffering at the hands of the Old Firm morons) to such an extent he has been forced into tendering his resignation.
The Old Firm, Celtic especially, need to take a good look at themselves with their regular cheating of officials and haranguing them when things don't go their way.
Wish that pair would tender their resignation.

I heard that Craven was raging that the ref had stitched him up - nothing to do with Celtic fans. Hopefully the full story will come out.

[Beefster]

Let's hope the ****bags used their own mobile or landline to make the calls. Should be easy enough to trace that way.

[matty_f]

They're a disgusting bunch. the spl or sfa should hammer them for this kind of nonsense. Lennon needs to take some accountability for stirring it up in the first place.
May many a dubious penalty be awarded against them for ever and ever.

[essexhibee]

I thought he did just dandy.

"Cheer up Neil Lennon, oh what can it be? Ginger...."

[Kaiser1962]

They're a disgusting bunch. the spl or sfa should hammer them for this kind of nonsense. Lennon needs to take some accountability for stirring it up in the first place.
May many a dubious penalty be awarded against them for ever and ever.

Absolutely. The ref's should refuse to take charge of their games. Even Platini stuck the boot into the OF for their behaviour.

[Sprouleflyer]

Time for English or other country refs to come up and ref games involving the OF.

No wonder all other teams get nothing aganst either of the OF, the refs in Scotland are too scared to go against them for fear of what will happen to them or their families!!!

[Barney McGrew]

Time for English or other country refs to come up and ref games involving the OF

That would just be giving in to them.

It would be far better if the SFA grew a set and hammered them every time they tried to influence a ref before a game or whined about them after it instead.

[blackpoolhibs]

That would just be giving in to them.

It would be far better if the SFA grew a set and hammered them every time they tried to influence a ref before a game or whined about them after it instead.

:agree: Its already agreed that the referee's ref the game differently to any other game. Nae balls the lot of them.

[Aubenas]

These morons need to realise that if we can't convince people to act as referees, we won't have a game to watch. I've seen some horrendous decisions over the past couple of seasons and am well able to hurl abuse at refs during the game. But, at the end of the day, it is only a game, and, when I pay my entrance money I'm paying to see a game regulated by the officials - whether they get it right or wrong, whether I agree with them or not. It's the only possible way to operate any sport - the ref's decision, right or wrong, is final.

I blame managers and clubs in general. (though the OF and Man U make an art of it). Restoring respect for referees is easy. The manager tells his squad - if you argue with the ref, you're not playing next week. End of.
Instead of, what I suspect is said: 'We can get the wind up this ref early doors, get stuck into him'.

The example these neds on the field give to kids is appalling. I switched off the OF game after ten minutes on Sunday, it was all bad tackles, simulation and shouting at the ref. Where does that come into football?

Symptomatic of what's happened to the game - win at any price, cheating is now 'professionalism', no need for highly visible sports stars to show any signs of responsibility.:grr::grr::grr:

[delbert]

Nae balls? sorry mate u r having a laugh, the point of this thread was that this all kicked off because a penalty to Celtic was denied, albeit absolutely correctly. The officials worked as they should, there was a doubt and they got together, talked about it, and reached their decision, which proved to be different from the original decision, and was ultimately the correct one, which I thought was the object of referees giving decisions. The fact that a little ginger tosser doesnt agree, and then shows his total lack of class once again by going greetin to the media is what has caused all the problems here, and if the SFA had any balls at all, he would be in the stand for the rest of the season, but they have'nt and he wont be. Until you have done the job, and realise what real pressure is like, unlike the overhyped pressure overpaid and undertalented managers take great delight in reminding everyone about at every opportunity, the nae balls crack is utter nonsense, referees do the job because they enjoy it, but the pressure they are being put under now by managers who constantly prove they know hee-haw about the laws of the game is out of order

[lyonhibs]

Lennon has shown them the way, harassment of officials has been part of his openly stated game plan this season. Odious club, odious fans, cretinous manager.

:agree: :agree:

Lennon is a jumped up ginger troll. Vile little excretion on the face of the earth. My growning resentment for all thing Rantic growns by the day, especially for TGFITW (The Greatest Fannies In The World)

[Hibs Class]

They're a disgusting bunch. the spl or sfa should hammer them for this kind of nonsense. Lennon needs to take some accountability for stirring it up in the first place.
May many a dubious penalty be awarded against them for ever and ever.


:agree: Considering how many managers get touchline bans for relatively minor transgressions it's difficult to see how the SFA (SPL?) could avoid hammering Lennon for this incitement.

[heretoday]

Lennon is not popular at East End Central. Pound to a penny Strachan returns by new year.

[talking_wiss]

:agree: :agree:

Lennon is a jumped up ginger troll. Vile little excretion on the face of the earth. My growning resentment for all thing Rantic growns by the day, especially for TGFITW (The Greatest Fannies In The World)

:agree: The way Lennon acted after the decision is the biggest disgrace, basically forcing Craven into retirement for making a great call.

IIRC a few years back a fairly similar thing happened at ER with Celtic initially having a goal disallowed and then the ref reversing the decision to give a goal (think it was a 2-2 game with Murph scoring). I can't remember the Hibs management hounding the officials out of a job after that, in fact I can't remember the press even mentioning it!:grr:

[lEXO]

Celtic fans are bad winners never mind losers.Their clubs treatment of refs over the last few years is disgraceful, and these bams are encouraged by this to behave like **** and threaten refs/players etc.Their paranoia is,nt even funny anymore.They regularly complain about referee,s before big games, and whinge about everything.The club and fans are a disgrace and i hope they win nowt.
I have no time for the huns or their fans, but for me they are a better class of **** than their paranoid bitter neighbours.

[Lofarl]

Bunch of cretinous fannys the whole lot of them. Will the SFA do anything about it? Aye right. What football needs in general is referees like rugby enjoys.

No debating, no backchat. Any nonsense like swearing etc gets you in a sin bin for 5 mins. Game would change over night.

[Hibs Class]

Bunch of cretinous fannys the whole lot of them. Will the SFA do anything about it? Aye right. What football needs in general is referees like rugby enjoys.

No debating, no backchat. Any nonsense like swearing etc gets you in a sin bin for 5 mins. Game would change over night.

Agree. Rugby has players and coaches who respect the officials ( the refs wear microphones and can be heard on TV, and I remember hearing a Scotland player sent off against Wales a few seasons ago apologising to the ref for the offence even though it was potentially accidental). Change in football needs to start with respect and it is too often lacking these days, ironic given the number of times players' strips have "respect" written on the sleeves.

[CapitalHibs]

For some of them,attacking referees just seems to be in their DNA. A few years back I was asked to referee a charity match between OF supporters in Ottawa. About 20 minutes in, I whistled the celtc goalie back for taking a goal kick when the ball was moving. Right then some the players started moaning about this apparent bias when a little scrote (player) appeared out of nowhere and swung a punch at my face... and this in front of of a crowd of mainly wives/girlfriends and children.

I only carried on because it was a charity game and some of the more decent minded players made sure the guy left the stadium in disgrace.

I'm not casting this incident on all of them..... but a charity match FFS:grr: Something you don't forget.

[HibeePaj]

Death threats to Willie Collum's home..

this is a disgrace, and i hope these 'football fans' are found, named, shamed and dealt with appropriately ( although sadly that will not be the case). This comes in the same week that Stephen Craven has RESIGNED over the matters involving the penalty last week at tannadice. It is a sad state of affairs that the officials in the scottish game are being driven out by sick yobs forgetting the important things in life.

Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). If a player DIVES the referee isn't necessarily going to see it that way. the player dived hoping to 'trick' the ref , and that is exactly what he managed to do.

WHERE IS KIRK BROADFOOT? surely this cretin has to come forward and make an apology, not necesarily to Celtic fans, but i think a public apology to the referee and his officials.

I hope that broadfoot is wriggling in a sense of guilt and remorse after his actions has seen death threats land at willie collums door.

This story makes me feel sick, its very difficult to have any pride in the scottish game at the minute due to bullying of the referees, not only by fans but by the managers.

EMBARASSING

[JackRegan]

Lennon is not popular at East End Central. Pound to a penny Strachan returns by new year.

If you think that, then you are an imbecile. :agree:

[matty_f]

If you think that, then you are an imbecile. :agree:

People who threaten referees are imbeciles.

[Lofarl]

If you think that, then you are an imbecile. :agree:

your one to talk.

[marinello59]

If you think that, then you are an imbecile. :agree:

Careful, you are a guest here.

[Diclonius]

Rangers - Scotland's shame.

Celtic - Scotland's sore losers.

:agree:

[matty_f]

If you think that, then you are an imbecile. :agree:

Our of interest jack, I know you like to keep a note of when decisions go against celtic, like throw-ins and that, so have you taken a note of this penalty incident as further proof that the sfa/rest of the world are out to get you?

[Lofarl]

Rangers - Scotland's shame.

Celtic - Scotland's other shame.

:agree:


Fixed that for you mate.

[Barney McGrew]

Our of interest jack, I know you like to keep a note of when decisions go against celtic, like throw-ins and that, so have you taken a note of this penalty incident as further proof that the sfa/rest of the world are out to get you, while conveniently ignoring the many decisions in the match that did go in your favour?

Fixed that for you Matty :wink:

[JackRegan]

:agree: The way Lennon acted after the decision is the biggest disgrace, basically forcing Craven into retirement for making a great call. IIRC a few years back a fairly similar thing happened at ER with Celtic initially having a goal disallowed and then the ref reversing the decision to give a goal (think it was a 2-2 game with Murph scoring). I can't remember the Hibs management hounding the officials out of a job after that, in fact I can't remember the press even mentioning it!:grr:

I think you'll find it was the fact that Dallas and possibly Dougie mcDonald (who I hear is to be downgraded) shafted him and tried to scapegoat him for the debacle at Tannadice (for that is what it was), that made him resign.

Lennon also never blamed Collum for Sunday's result, if you saw his press ocnference you woudl see this, but he rightly said, as would any other manager that he felt it was not a penalty, he was also right tos peak out about what happened at tannadice.

Neil lennon, made no reference, critical or otherwise to Craven and no Celtic fans have done likewise. McDonald changed his mind because one of two things happened. Everyone knows that Craven was being used as a patsy, FFS even the huns on Follow Follow are saying this!!

1.) He got the wire from the 4th official who saw it on TV - against the rules or;
2.) he caved in to the United players and ran to the linesman (who had, by running to where he did agreed with the decision) the linesman, contrary to what some in the printed media wrote, never raised his flag.

Celtic only acted on this when Dallas went on Radio Clyde and said Neil Lennon accepted that the referee got the decision right. When, even according to that well known Celtic man, Craig Brown that even if the player takes the ball, the new laws state that it is still a foul. (Craig Brown said this on Saturday)

What DOES put pressure on referees is when correct decisions (like Celtic's first two goals against Hearts) are discussed for days on end, or when the press cirlce the wagons for Rangers and do their bidding - remember the furore they created when Mendes was rightfully sent off at Kilmarnock? Then when we present a a catalogue of factual evidence we are paranoid.

what also does not help is when papers printed two years ago the fact that Collum(who I rate as a ref BTW) is an RE teacher at an RC school (following a gripe the huns had about him). It also does not help when ****bag, gutter hacks, on the day of the game refer to him as "Scotland's most prominent Catholic referee". Why in gods name is that important?

Celtic, following on from a dreadful catalogue that benefited Rangers last season ( I can list them again if you wish - there is 40 in total) added to the shocking decision by Collum are quite entitled to take umbrage with the standard of refereeing. It Smith's last season and Rangers are skint, the establishment is helping out the establishment club (their description BTW, not mine).

can someone tell me the last time a big decision went against them and cost them a game? I've asked this on here before and never got an answer, not one.

Walter Smith does this often enough, yet the press love this guy - in fact they are terrified of him. But when Nosurname does it he's "sly old fox Walter". When ALex Ferguson does it he's "Master of Mind Games"

Neil Lennon? He's a tim who should know his place and who' deserves a kicking (remember how the Sun and Real Radio reported his assualt?) for being a fenian in a built up area.

The answer?

1.) Foreign refs for Old Frim games, or even games invloving the Old Firm.
2.) Dallas has got to go, he is covering something up here.
3.) Only the club captain can remonstrate with the ref.
4.) Allow TV evidence - if egg chasers can manage this then so can we.
5.) Identity of the Ref kept from the public until match day.

[JackRegan]

Our of interest jack, I know you like to keep a note of when decisions go against celtic, like throw-ins and that, so have you taken a note of this penalty incident as further proof that the sfa/rest of the world are out to get you?

Matty

I actually think Collum had bad game overall on Saturday, but he's not a bad referee. The pressure got to him and compared to our games with der hun last season, this is nothing.

Funny how the game with nothing at stake last seaosn was the one with no controversy?

[JackRegan]

Our of interest jack, I know you like to keep a note of when decisions go against celtic, like throw-ins and that, so have you taken a note of this penalty incident as further proof that the sfa/rest of the world are out to get you?

I see you never disagreed with my post. :greengrin

[JackRegan]

Careful, you are a guest here.

Fair does.

Mental statement nonetheless.

[marinello59]

Matty

I actually think Collum had bad game overall on Saturday, but he's not a bad referee. The pressure got to him and compared to our games with der hun last season, this is nothing.

Funny how the game with nothing at stake last seaosn was the one with no controversy?

So what about Lennon putting pressure on him beforehand? Was that helpful?

[ronaldo7]

I think you'll find it was the fact that Dallas and possibly Dougie mcDonald (who I hear is to be downgraded) shafted him and tried to scapegoat him for the debacle at Tannadice (for that is what it was), that made him resign.

Lennon also never blamed Collum for Sunday's result, if you saw his press ocnference you woudl see this, but he rightly said, as would any other manager that he felt it was not a penalty, he was also right tos peak out about what happened at tannadice.

Neil lennon, made no reference, critical or otherwise to Craven and no Celtic fans have done likewise. McDonald changed his mind because one of two things happened. Everyone knows that Craven was being used as a patsy, FFS even the huns on Follow Follow are saying this!!

1.) He got the wire from the 4th official who saw it on TV - against the rules or;
2.) he caved in to the United players and ran to the linesman (who had, by running to where he did agreed with the decision) the linesman, contrary to what some in the printed media wrote, never raised his flag.

Celtic only acted on this when Dallas went on Radio Clyde and said Neil Lennon accepted that the referee got the decision right. When, even according to that well known Celtic man, Craig Brown that even if the player takes the ball, the new laws state that it is still a foul. (Craig Brown said this on Saturday)

What DOES put pressure on referees is when correct decisions (like Celtic's first two goals against Hearts) are discussed for days on end, or when the press cirlce the wagons for Rangers and do their bidding - remember the furore they created when Mendes was rightfully sent off at Kilmarnock? Then when we present a a catalogue of factual evidence we are paranoid.

what also does not help is when papers printed two years ago the fact that Collum(who I rate as a ref BTW) is an RE teacher at an RC school (following a gripe the huns had about him). It also does not help when ****bag, gutter hacks, on the day of the game refer to him as "Scotland's most prominent Catholic referee". Why in gods name is that important?

Celtic, following on from a dreadful catalogue that benefited Rangers last season ( I can list them again if you wish - there is 40 in total) added to the shocking decision by Collum are quite entitled to take umbrage with the standard of refereeing. It Smith's last season and Rangers are skint, the establishment is helping out the establishment club (their description BTW, not mine).

can someone tell me the last time a big decision went against them and cost them a game? I've asked this on here before and never got an answer, not one.

Walter Smith does this often enough, yet the press love this guy - in fact they are terrified of him. But when Nosurname does it he's "sly old fox Walter". When ALex Ferguson does it he's "Master of Mind Games"

Neil Lennon? He's a tim who should know his place and who' deserves a kicking (remember how the Sun and Real Radio reported his assualt?) for being a fenian in a built up area.

The answer?

1.) Foreign refs for Old Frim games, or even games invloving the Old Firm.
2.) Dallas has got to go, he is covering something up here.
3.) Only the club captain can remonstrate with the ref.
4.) Allow TV evidence - if egg chasers can manage this then so can we.
5.) Identity of the Ref kept from the public until match day.

In answer to your answers.

1. The day we as a Football nation pander to the Old Firm in allowing foreign refs is the day we all give up. You are only 1 vote each in the bigger picture.
2. Any cast iron evidence or just making it up again.
3. Remonstrate with the ref eh......Why can't their be a civilised discussion on events?
4. Agree
5. We are supposed to be a civilised society. When we give in to this one, the looney's have taken over the asylum.

[matty_f]

Matty

I actually think Collum had bad game overall on Saturday, but he's not a bad referee. The pressure got to him and compared to our games with der hun last season, this is nothing.

Funny how the game with nothing at stake last seaosn was the one with no controversy?

At least two big decisions went celtc's way at the weekend, this will be ignored over time by the paranoid brigade.

so in this game, where there was something at stake, celtc benefitted from at least two calls from the ref, despite having a gameplan to kick rangers off the park from the word go, including putting the knee into a grounded player.

Celtc have a needed complaining about anyone after that performance.

[JackRegan]

So what about Lennon putting pressure on him beforehand? Was that helpful?

But Lennon never put pressure on him beforehand.

Given what happened in our fixture versus Dundee United, the fallout from it and what happened in fixtures between the clubs last season, Lennon was entitled to say what he said - read his quotes, listen to him, he actually does not say that much. He certainly said less than Wlater Smith when he made his comment

"well Mr Murphy (see what he did there :wink:) was quick to allow two offisde Celtic goals last season"

The reaction from the press? "You're right Walter", "Wily old Walter".

aLso, what about when smith manhahndled the 4th official last season to get at Paataleinen?

Lennon never said anything out of the ordinary. Collum was put under pressure as a result of the piss poor performance of the SFA and as a result of irresponsible, hyperbolic journalism.

[Barney McGrew]

Neil Lennon? He's a tim who should know his place and who' deserves a kicking (remember how the Sun and Real Radio reported his assualt?) for being a fenian in a built up area

Wind yer neck in Jack.

[matty_f]

In answer to your answers.

1. The day we as a Football nation pander to the Old Firm in allowing foreign refs is the day we all give up. You are only 1 vote each in the bigger picture.
2. Any cast iron evidence or just making it up again.
3. Remonstrate with the ref eh......Why can't their be a civilised discussion on events?
4. Agree
5. We are supposed to be a civilised society. When we give in to this one, the looney's have taken over the asylum.

Spot on, none of these steps would be needed if the celtc fans could be trusted to behave themselves after and during old firm games.

Foreign refs for the old firm games is a disgrace, if anything they should be brought in for games where any other team is up against the old firm to ensure the rest of us get a shot of enjoying decisions going our way against both of them.

[JackRegan]

At least two big decisions went celtc's way at the weekend, this will be ignored over time by the paranoid brigade.

so in this game, where there was something at stake, celtc benefitted from at least two calls from the ref, despite having a gameplan to kick rangers off the park from the word go, including putting the knee into a grounded player.

Celtc have a needed complaining about anyone after that performance.

Two big decisons?

Okay, I assume you mean Stokes. Fair enough but how many players (apart from a Uruguyan in 1986) have you seen sent off in teh first minute.

Thats the only decison I can think of.

He could have sent McCulloch off.

after the first goal, Laffert went on the track giving it the big GIRUY to the celtic fans - we got Craig Bellamy booked at Ibrox, for falling to his knees after scoring from 20 yards at Ibrox. We got Rasmussen booked for a late goal at Hamilton, when he never left the pitch.

He never booked Milelr who booted the ball into the crowd after he scored - O'Dea got booked for kciking a tehball inteh net after McGeady scored ta pittodrie last season.

Where's the consistency here?

[JackRegan]

Spot on, none of these steps would be needed if the celtc fans could be trusted to behave themselves after and during old firm games.

Foreign refs for the old firm games is a disgrace, if anything they should be brought in for games where any other team is up against the old firm to ensure the rest of us get a shot of enjoying decisions going our way against both of them.

I'd have no problem with that. Neither would the hundreds of Tims on Celtic messageboards.

[JackRegan]

Wind yer neck in Jack.

Okay, so you think Cameron on Real Radio saying it was his own fault he got beat up and the Sun making a cartoon of it is acceptable?

Remember he was attacked by two guys witha string of previous convictions.

[matty_f]

Two big decisons?

Okay, I assume you mean Stokes. Fair enough but how many players (apart from a Uruguyan in 1986) have you seen sent off in teh first minute.

Thats the only decison I can think of.

He could have sent McCulloch off.

after the first goal, Laffert went on the track giving it the big GIRUY to the celtic fans - we got Craig Bellamy booked at Ibrox, for falling to his knees after scoring from 20 yards at Ibrox. We got Rasmussen booked for a late goal at Hamilton, when he never left the pitch.

He never booked Milelr who booted the ball into the crowd after he scored - O'Dea got booked for kciking a tehball inteh net after McGeady scored ta pittodrie last season

Where's the consistency here?

Samaras kneed their keeper in the had while he was on the ground, them assaulted naismith.

There were others in the game but I don't care enough to have taken notes on them.

[matty_f]

I'd have no problem with that. Neither would the hundreds of Tims on Celtic messageboards.

They would have problems when they realised the cost of phoning abroad to threaten the guy.

[Barney McGrew]

Okay, so you think Cameron on Real Radio saying it was his own fault he got beat up and the Sun making a cartoon of it is acceptable?

Remember he was attacked by two guys witha string of previous convictions.

No Jack, as usual you've got to twist it. Even if Cameron said that he deserved it, he didn't mention anything about 'tim' or 'fenian' did he? Have any of the press who are out to get him mentioned that?

I think we all know they haven't. It's just another example of the rabid paranoia of anyone associated with your tawdry football club.

[JackRegan]

In answer to your answers.

1. The day we as a Football nation pander to the Old Firm in allowing foreign refs is the day we all give up. You are only 1 vote each in the bigger picture.
2. Any cast iron evidence or just making it up again.
3. Remonstrate with the ref eh......Why can't their be a civilised discussion on events?
4. Agree
5. We are supposed to be a civilised society. When we give in to this one, the looney's have taken over the asylum.

1.) Surely as a Hibs fan you would be happy with this, after all tehy pander to both the "Old Firm" do they not? they do this in other countries, in case you did not know.

2.) He said, on Radio, that Neil Lennon accepted that McDonald was right. Lennon has came out and disputed this. He also said that McDonald changed his mind after consulting with the linesman - thsi would not appear to be the case as the linesman never flagged and has since resigned.

3.) Discussions with the ref are a problem for the game worldwide, indeed the "Captain only" suggestion was first mooted in England.

4.) Hell just froze over.

5.) Agree, but we are where we are and it will avoid shocking article like the one Keevins wrote, mentioning the guys religion. shocking journalism.

[marinello59]

Neil Lennon? He's a tim who should know his place and who' deserves a kicking (remember how the Sun and Real Radio reported his assualt?) for being a fenian in a built up area.
.

I thought you were above that sort of pathetic nonsense. You really believe there is an agenda against Lennon based on anything other than the fact that he is the same petulant whinging tosspot as a manager that he was as a player?

[JackRegan]

No Jack, as usual you've got to twist it. Even if Cameron said that he deserved it, he didn't mention anything about 'tim' or 'fenian' did he? Has any of the press who are out to get him mentioned that?

I think we all know they haven't. It's just another example of the rabid paranoia of anyone associated with your tawdry football club.

So why was Cameron's first reaction of "how come he husnae pressed any charges then"

Any fool knows thats not what happens in Scots Law.

aLso, if you think everyones hatred of Lennon is for purely footballing reasons then you are not being honest with yourself.

[matty_f]

1.) Surely as a Hibs fan you would be happy with this, after all tehy pander to both the "Old Firm" do they not? they do this in other countries, in case you did not know.

2.) He said, on Radio, that Neil Lennon accepted that McDonald was right. Lennon has came out and disputed this. He also said that McDonald changed his mind after consulting roth the linesman - thsi would not appear to be the case as the linesman never flagged and has since resigned.

3.) Discussions with the ref are a problem for the game worldwide, indeed the "Captain only" suggestion was first mooted in England.

4.) Hell just froze over.

5.) Agree, but we are where we are and it will avoid shocking article like the one Keevins wrote, mentioning the guys religion. shocking journalism.

Mind they used to go on about marvin andrew's religion all the time when he was at rangers. Disgrace.

[Barney McGrew]

So why was Cameron's first reaction of "how come he husnae pressed any charges then"

Any fool knows thats not what happens in Scots Law.

aLso, if you think everyones hatred of Lennon is for purely footballing reasons then you are not being honest with yourself.

So no answer then Jack, or are you attempting to take the politician's way out?

No-one has ever mentioned it's because he's a 'tim' or a 'fenian' have they? A simple yes or no will suffice.

[JackRegan]

I thought you were above that sort of pathetic nonsense. You really believe there is an agenda against Lennon based on anything other than the fact that he is the same petulant whinging tosspot as a manager that he was as a player?

In some quarters. Yes. Not from Hibs fans, or arabs or sheepies, but from types in one horse towns and rabid Glasgow based huns.

Neil Lennon also believes this, he also belives that one or two journalists have made life difficult for him.

It's an extension of their "We are the People" mentality: "Hey timmy - know your place."

As I sadi, not a problem at all Scottish Clubs and not indicative of Scottish Society.

Seriously, watch Lennon's press conferences again. :agree:

[matty_f]

So why was Cameron's first reaction of "how come he husnae pressed any charges then"

Any fool knows thats not what happens in Scots Law.

aLso, if you think everyones hatred of Lennon is for purely footballing reasons then you are not being honest with yourself.

bear In mind that most folk outside of the old firm care not a jot what someone's religion is. A tosser is a tosser to most of us. Lennon is a tosser.

[marinello59]

bear In mind that most folk outside of the old firm care not a jot what someone's religion is. A tosser is a tosser to most of us. Lennon is a tosser.

I have to disagree with you there Matty.



Lennon is actually a complete and utter tosser.:agree:

[matty_f]

So no answer then Jack, or are you attempting to take the politician's way out?

No-one has ever mentioned it's because he's a 'tim' or a 'fenian' have they? A simple yes or no will suffice.

if you play cameron's voice backwards at a certain speed he definitely says something about tims, and the newspaper report in the evening times had some sort of anagram where if you took out the letters needed to spell ' lennon is a tim' you'd be able to see that they called him a tim.

[ronaldo7]

1.) Surely as a Hibs fan you would be happy with this, after all tehy pander to both the "Old Firm" do they not? they do this in other countries, in case you did not know.
Why don't we go the whole way Jack, and sack the SFA and bring onboard our pals in Europe eh. That's what you really want
2.) He said, on Radio, that Neil Lennon accepted that McDonald was right. Lennon has came out and disputed this. He also said that McDonald changed his mind after consulting with the linesman - thsi would not appear to be the case as the linesman never flagged and has since resigned.
So Dallas said on Radio, and you've just disbelieved him. On the other hand Lennon disputed it and you Believe him. Strange that eh.
3.) Discussions with the ref are a problem for the game worldwide, indeed the "Captain only" suggestion was first mooted in England.
So it's now Discussions and not Remonstrations. You're learning Jack son.
4.) Hell just froze over.
Don't think I've had any discussion on here or elsewhere when we've had words Jack. Care to elaborate
5.) Agree, but we are where we are and it will avoid shocking article like the one Keevins wrote, mentioning the guys religion. shocking journalism.
Still no reason for your original answer imo

[JackRegan]

So no answer then Jack, or are you attempting to take the politician's way out?

No-one has ever mentioned it's because he's a 'tim' or a 'fenian' have they? A simple yes or no will suffice.

No, but who in their right mind would refer to him as such in a newspaper or any media outlet?

So its a loaded point you make.

I'll paraphrase "you don't have to use the "n-word" to be a racist"

[Stevie Reid]

if you think everyones hatred of Lennon is for purely footballing reasons then you are not being honest with yourself.

Some people hate Lennon because he behaves like an odious little ***** in front of millions of people on a regular basis, and has done for many years.

The people who hate Lennon for Sectarian reasons will hate anyone of his denomination, football is a handy way to vent their bile.

If Lennon behaved in the same way but was a Rangers player/manager you would absolutely hate him.

Let's not pretend that anyone's got a balanced view of Neil Lennon here.

[JackRegan]

They would have problems when they realised the cost of phoning abroad to threaten the guy.

We're dickensian street urchin jakeballs? We have to nick phones, so it makes no difference. :confused:

:greengrin

[matty_f]

No, but who in their right mind would refer to him as such in a newspaper or any media outlet?

So its a loaded point you make.

I'll paraphrase "you don't have to use the "n-word" to be a racist"

Do you have to use the 'c' word to be paranoid?

[JackRegan]

Some people hate Lennon because he behaves like an odious little ***** in front of millions of people on a regular basis, and has done for many years.

The people who hate Lennon for Sectarian reasons will hate anyone of his denomination, football is a handy way to vent their bile.

If Lennon behaved in the same way but was a Rangers player/manager you would absolutely hate him.

Let's not pretend that anyone's got a balanced view of Neil Lennon here.

That's actually what I was trying to say. :greengrin

Lets face it, we need the Bette Noirs in the game, we need the pantomine villan - thats what Lennon is to most right thinking people.

I know an uber hun who hates Neil Lennon. Me and said Uber hun walk into Tennents Bar in Byres ROad (NL recognises me and nods :greengrin). Uber hun proceeds to talk to him all night, good craic about football and NL is an abosulte gent with the guy.

Uber hun think NL is a decent guy, but still "hates" him, if you get my drift.

[Barney McGrew]

No, but who in their right mind would refer to him as such in a newspaper or any media outlet?

So its a loaded point you make.

I'll paraphrase "you don't have to use the "n-word" to be a racist"

It's not a loaded point Jack, it's a fact.

And that fact is that no-one, including Cameron or the Sun, has suggested that's why he got beaten up. The only people who have are Celtc fans like you who are making assumptions based on what they've read in the same media outlets they think are out to get them.

Double standards, no?

[ronaldo7]

No, but who in their right mind would refer to him as such in a newspaper or any media outlet?

So its a loaded point you make.

I'll paraphrase "you don't have to use the "n-word" to be a racist"

Is this Neil by any chance:confused:

[Jonnyboy]

Proof, if proof were needed that in order to support Glasgow Celtic Football Club it is compulsory to have a chip on either shoulder and believe in conspiracy theories.

I don't like Lennon because he was a thug on the park and is shaping up the same way in the dugout. The fact that he is a Catholic means nothing to me and nor would it if he were Protestant, Muslim, Hindu or Methodist.

The 'everybody hates Lennon because he's a Tim' argument is pretty infantile
IMO but it doesn't surprise me that Celtic fans use it because it goes with the territory.

[JackRegan]

Do you have to use the 'c' word to be paranoid?

is that the universal "c-word"??? :greengrin

[JackRegan]

Proof, if proof were needed that in order to support Glasgow Celtic Football Club it is compulsory to have a chip on either shoulder and believe in conspiracy theories.

I don't like Lennon because he was a thug on the park and is shaping up the same way in the dugout. The fact that he is a Catholic means nothing to me and nor would it if he were Protestant, Muslim, Hindu or Methodist.

The 'everybody hates Lennon because he's a Tim' argument is pretty infantile
IMO but it doesn't surprise me that Celtic fans use it because it goes with the territory.

That's funny Jonny because I made a point of saying that I don't believe this to be the case. Twice.

[JackRegan]

It's not a loaded point Jack, it's a fact.

And that fact is that no-one, including Cameron or the Sun, has suggested that's why he got beaten up. The only people who have are Celtc fans like you who are making assumptions based on what they've read in the same media outlets they think are out to get them.

Double standards, no?

Well the guy who got beat up, thinks this to be the case. He's on record as saying so.

Cameron and the Sun gloated when he got a kicking, that tells you all you need to know.

[Barney McGrew]

Cameron and the Sun gloated when he got a kicking, that tells you all you need to know.

And what's that exactly?

[lEXO]

Proof, if proof were needed that in order to support Glasgow Celtic Football Club it is compulsory to have a chip on either shoulder and believe in conspiracy theories.

I don't like Lennon because he was a thug on the park and is shaping up the same way in the dugout. The fact that he is a Catholic means nothing to me and nor would it if he were Protestant, Muslim, Hindu or Methodist.

The 'everybody hates Lennon because he's a Tim' argument is pretty infantile
IMO but it doesn't surprise me that Celtic fans use it because it goes with the territory.
Nail on head Johnny.I hated Bruno when he was at the yams. It was,nt cos he was Italian, it was because he was a dirty cheating Hearts b*****d. This sectarian persecution chip that celtic and their fans belt out when things dont go their way is disgusting.You did,nt hear this garbage when they were winning loads under Martin O,neil, just when they arent winning.Funny that.

[swazzie]

But Lennon never put pressure on him beforehand.

:fibber:

"I would say that refereeing an Old Firm game at any time is difficult but when it is your first one, he might be a wee bit extra nervous," Lennon said.

"I just hope he has a strong game.

"We felt aggrieved at some of the decisions that went against us last year so we hope that he has a good game and makes the right decisions."

[matty_f]

is that the universal "c-word"??? :greengrin

Sort of, it's really a c-c word. Celtc-cnt. :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

if you play cameron's voice backwards at a certain speed he definitely says something about tims, and the newspaper report in the evening times had some sort of anagram where if you took out the letters needed to spell ' lennon is a tim' you'd be able to see that they called him a tim.

Stranger still if you apply a silent H you'll find that Uncle Walter's surname in reverse is Tims :wink:

[Jonnyboy]

That's funny Jonny because I made a point of saying that I don't believe this to be the case. Twice.

Did you? Must have missed that.

Point is though that you're arguing the establishment and everyone else in Scottish football is against Celtic and I'm assuming that includes the manager. You also seem to be suggesting that the bias is because Celtic is a Catholic organisation supported in the main by Catholics and that's why it's hated and conspired against.

Does it ever occur to you that Lennon and your club are strongly disliked because he's a wee scrote and your club never stops whingeing?

[--------]

Did you? Must have missed that.

Point is though that you're arguing the establishment and everyone else in Scottish football is against Celtic and I'm assuming that includes the manager. You also seem to be suggesting that the bias is because Celtic is a Catholic organisation supported in the main by Catholics and that's why it's hated and conspired against.

Does it ever occur to you that Lennon and your club are strongly disliked because he's a wee scrote and your club never stops whingeing?


:agree: I stand to be corrected by a higher authority, John, but I believe that Willie Collum teaches RE in an RC High School not far from the Caldera....

But then we mustn't let facts get in the way of a Good Old Celtc Whine, must we.

He's probably an under-cover Calvinist fifth columnist, of course....

Working away to corrupt the flower of innocent Catholic youth. :rolleyes:

[JackRegan]

:fibber:

"I would say that refereeing an Old Firm game at any time is difficult but when it is your first one, he might be a wee bit extra nervous," Lennon said.

"I just hope he has a strong game.

"We felt aggrieved at some of the decisions that went against us last year so we hope that he has a good game and makes the right decisions."

Heading off from work now, but I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable.

[Jonnyboy]

:agree: I stand to be corrected by a higher authority, John, but I believe that Willie Collum teaches RE in an RC High School not far from the Caldera....

But then we mustn't let facts get in the way of a Good Old Celtc Whine, must we.

He's probably an under-cover Calvinist fifth collumnist, of course....

Working away to corrupt the flower of innocent Catholic youth. :rolleyes:

Fixed that for you Doddie :greengrin

[swazzie]

Heading off from work now, but I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable.

Maybe, maybe not, but that's not the point. The point is whether any pressure was put on the referee by the comments and I don't see how anyone can argue that they didn't. Why bother saying anything about the ref at all?

[Hibs Class]

Heading off from work now, but I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable.

And you would have viewed it in exactly the same way if Walter Smith had said it?

[EasterRoad4Ever]

The Old Firm - high time the media and Scottish Parliament started to recognise the cancer that is the Old Firm. Just as you cannot expect a fair trial if jurers are threatened, is it any wonder why all teams who play the Old Firm ultimately complain about key decision going against them. The ref and other officials MUST have this at the back of their mind when deciding "should I, shouldn't I" when it comes to key decisions.

The situation is now such that there is no ref n the country who is unbiased and brave enough to officiate over a game involving the OF.

[--------]

Fixed that for you Doddie :greengrin


HOW did I miss that? :grr:


I suppose that the Gruesome Twosome are so used to always getting the rub of the referee against us lesser mortals that when they play one another, and one of THEM's going to come out of the game feeling hard-done-by, all the stored-up bitterness and bile and venom just comes flooding out of them.

I'm actually quite glad to see that the Poster-Known-As-JackRegan's still alive. He's been awful quiet for quite a while now.

I was quite enjoying the peace and quiet.... :greengrin

[snooky]

My theory is that both the OF get all the crucial decisions that win or lose games. However, when they meet, the Huns get them. This of course is offset by giving Celtc a barrowload of biased decisions against the teams they play thereafter - until they play Walt's Wellywearers again.

Just a theory, like. :greengrin

[Part/Time Supporter]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9129435.stm

embarrassing

Presumably Lennon will voluntarily ban Samaras and Stokes for one game each, in the interests of getting big decisions right?

[JimBHibees]

Some people hate Lennon because he behaves like an odious little ***** in front of millions of people on a regular basis, and has done for many years.

The people who hate Lennon for Sectarian reasons will hate anyone of his denomination, football is a handy way to vent their bile.

If Lennon behaved in the same way but was a Rangers player/manager you would absolutely hate him.

Let's not pretend that anyone's got a balanced view of Neil Lennon here.

Yep he is a classless scrote and appears to have carried that onto his management also IMO. Celtic have sent a letter to the SFA wanting decisions clarified dear oh dear, they will be hiring private detectives next oops already done.

Lets get things clear Lennon was on more than one occasion an obnoxious clown at ER remember him blasting a ball into the home crowd and on another occasion miraculously managed to avoid a red card because he wore green and white hoops and not a Hibs top.

[Kaiser1962]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9129435.stm

embarrassing

Presumably Lennon will voluntarily ban Samaras and Stokes for one game each, in the interests of getting big decisions right?

Spot on.

If they did bring in a ref from outside Scotland who then sent off those who should have went they would be complaining that jonny foreigner does not understand the "special" nature of these games. Pathetic bunch of helmet's

[Hibs Class]

Yep he is a classless scrote and appears to have carried that onto his management also IMO. Celtic have sent a letter to the SFA wanting decisions clarified dear oh dear, they will be hiring private detectives next oops already done.

Lets get things clear Lennon was on more than one occasion an obnoxious clown at ER remember him blasting a ball into the home crowd and on another occasion miraculously managed to avoid a red card because he wore green and white hoops and not a Hibs top.

I was recollecting that earlier today. It was kicked at the disabled supporters in the front row of the West stand because one of them had earlier taken the p*** by not giving him the ball back.

[poolman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9129435.stm

embarrassing

Presumably Lennon will voluntarily ban Samaras and Stokes for one game each, in the interests of getting big decisions right?

Dont mind that actually

The more he makes a phanny of himself the less credibility (albeit, he has hardly any at the moment) he will get

Grade A fud

[swazzie]

I was recollecting that earlier today. It was kicked at the disabled supporters in the front row of the West stand because one of them had earlier taken the p*** by not giving him the ball back.

Yeah I thought I remembered that too. We must be wrong though because only Rangers players don't get booked for that, not Celtic players



He never booked Milelr who booted the ball into the crowd after he scored - O'Dea got booked for kciking a tehball inteh net after McGeady scored ta pittodrie last season

(very bad typing here, you can feel the anger)

However, if we are right, that's one decision that went against us v Celtic. 39 more and we've got ourselves a rock solid conspiracy theory


Celtic, following on from a dreadful catalogue that benefited Rangers last season ( I can list them again if you wish - there is 40 in total)


I think he's being serious too :rotflmao: You couldn't make it up :paranoid:

Take some responsibility and look inwards for once. There were 4 big decisions in the game, Stokes, McCulloch, penalty and Samaras. Celtic got the benefit of 2, Rangers got the benefit of 2. Celtic lost because Rangers were better on the day, and it pains me to give them any credit because I dislike them as much as I dislike Celtic

[Westie1875]

I pity whoever plays Celtc this weekend, you just know whats going to happen :bitchy:

More pressure on the ref resulting in whoever he is not having the guts to do his job properly because of what might happen if a big decision (even a correct one) goes against the poor wee souls - kids bullied, job on the line, death threats etc. It makes me sick and I am no fan of referees.

[ScottB]

This is an utter disgrace.

So in the last week, Celtic and their fans have destroyed one mans career and are now making death threats to another man.

Does their club condemn them? Does their club appeal for calm? Course not, they stoke the flames.

If Old Firm fans can't attend a bloody GAME of football without resorting to trying to destroy any official who dares go against them then they should be forced to play behind closed doors until they do. Not forgetting the never ending torrent of sectarian bile they usually vomit up either, or the hypocrisy of them complaining about bias!

Will it happen? Course not. Will any Old Firm manager be strung up for whipping their moronic fan base up? Hell no, they'll wait till someone low down the league makes a quip about a ref and punish him instead.


Yet another chapter of utter disgrace in the story of the Old Firm, the SFA and the SPL. Vile, detestable, spineless, moronic thugs. Delete as appropriate.

[SidBurns]

Was the original post not about Willie Collum!?!?!?!

[Kaiser1962]

Who was the ref they followed determined to gather evidence that he was a mason? This was sanctioned by the club was it not?

[Ed De Gramo]

Can't we punt the plastic along with Corrie Greens and the BITC? Would make this place a lot more respectable :agree:

[johnbc70]

The common denominator when its refs and officials and players getting death threats to them and their families is 99% of the time Celtic and Rangers. What do the SFA do about it, that's right Sweet ****** All.

Any decent club would come out and say enough is enough and tell their fans to stop threatening officials with death and harm to their families.

[CraigHibee]

lennon is a sour faced ginger fud!

he started all this guff before the game on sunday by blabbing crap in the paper, lennon to me is a wee man under an immense amount of pressure and is like a wounded animal lashing out at who he can and is taking it out on the refs.

its great to see correct disicions going against the old firm and its long overdue! just wish the old firm would sod off and stew in their own sectarian bile!

[The Harp Awakes]

I think you'll find it was the fact that Dallas and possibly Dougie mcDonald (who I hear is to be downgraded) shafted him and tried to scapegoat him for the debacle at Tannadice (for that is what it was), that made him resign.

Lennon also never blamed Collum for Sunday's result, if you saw his press ocnference you woudl see this, but he rightly said, as would any other manager that he felt it was not a penalty, he was also right tos peak out about what happened at tannadice.

Neil lennon, made no reference, critical or otherwise to Craven and no Celtic fans have done likewise. McDonald changed his mind because one of two things happened. Everyone knows that Craven was being used as a patsy, FFS even the huns on Follow Follow are saying this!!

1.) He got the wire from the 4th official who saw it on TV - against the rules or;
2.) he caved in to the United players and ran to the linesman (who had, by running to where he did agreed with the decision) the linesman, contrary to what some in the printed media wrote, never raised his flag.

Celtic only acted on this when Dallas went on Radio Clyde and said Neil Lennon accepted that the referee got the decision right. When, even according to that well known Celtic man, Craig Brown that even if the player takes the ball, the new laws state that it is still a foul. (Craig Brown said this on Saturday)

What DOES put pressure on referees is when correct decisions (like Celtic's first two goals against Hearts) are discussed for days on end, or when the press cirlce the wagons for Rangers and do their bidding - remember the furore they created when Mendes was rightfully sent off at Kilmarnock? Then when we present a a catalogue of factual evidence we are paranoid.

what also does not help is when papers printed two years ago the fact that Collum(who I rate as a ref BTW) is an RE teacher at an RC school (following a gripe the huns had about him). It also does not help when ****bag, gutter hacks, on the day of the game refer to him as "Scotland's most prominent Catholic referee". Why in gods name is that important?

Celtic, following on from a dreadful catalogue that benefited Rangers last season ( I can list them again if you wish - there is 40 in total) added to the shocking decision by Collum are quite entitled to take umbrage with the standard of refereeing. It Smith's last season and Rangers are skint, the establishment is helping out the establishment club (their description BTW, not mine).

can someone tell me the last time a big decision went against them and cost them a game? I've asked this on here before and never got an answer, not one.Walter Smith does this often enough, yet the press love this guy - in fact they are terrified of him. But when Nosurname does it he's "sly old fox Walter". When ALex Ferguson does it he's "Master of Mind Games"

Neil Lennon? He's a tim who should know his place and who' deserves a kicking (remember how the Sun and Real Radio reported his assualt?) for being a fenian in a built up area.

The answer?

1.) Foreign refs for Old Frim games, or even games invloving the Old Firm.
2.) Dallas has got to go, he is covering something up here.
3.) Only the club captain can remonstrate with the ref.
4.) Allow TV evidence - if egg chasers can manage this then so can we.
5.) Identity of the Ref kept from the public until match day.

Jack, I think Celtic FC would get some credit here if they condemned the morons who have issued threats. I also agree with other posters who have claimed that Celtic have been very poor winners and losers over the years - that has certainly been my experience following Hibs since 1973.

Having said that, I do agree with your point about Rangers being the main benefactors of refereeing decisions. This has gone on for decades and I reckon the only reason they get away with it is due to the predominantly Rangers minded media who turn a blind eye to it.

I also think your idea of foreign referees is a good one but I wouldn't restrict this to OF games. I think the standard of Scottish refereeing is shocking and our game would only improve by using foreign refs IMO.

[Sylar]

Absolutely shocking that Collum has received death threats, but I think the focus on Lennon is a little OTT.

If it were to happen to Hibs, we would be wanting our board to write to the SFA asking for an explanation into the rather blatant decisions. I don't think there's a single manager out there who wouldn't feel a little bit aggrieved.

Secondly, Lennon isn't "coming out and whinging" about the decisions - he's been asked questions by a pack of bloodthirsty media, desperate to spin a story into something much grander than it actually is.

The fact that so many people are using the Samaras, Stokes and first McCulloch yellow aren't evidence to the contrary of anything - they're just further evidence that Collum didn't have a good game on Sunday, as all were pretty obvious decisions IMO - still not warranting the receipt of death threats mind you.

I dislike Lennon (in the ol' panto villain role) as much as the next guy, but he's taking some amount of unfair battering for answering honestly, questions which are being posed to him.

[HibeePaj]

Death threats to Willie Collum's home..

this is a disgrace, and i hope these 'football fans' are found, named, shamed and dealt with appropriately ( although sadly that will not be the case). This comes in the same week that Stephen Craven has RESIGNED over the matters involving the penalty last week at tannadice. It is a sad state of affairs that the officials in the scottish game are being driven out by sick yobs forgetting the important things in life.

Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). If a player DIVES the referee isn't necessarily going to see it that way. the player dived hoping to 'trick' the ref , and that is exactly what he managed to do.

WHERE IS KIRK BROADFOOT? surely this cretin has to come forward and make an apology, not necesarily to Celtic fans, but i think a public apology to the referee and his officials.

I hope that broadfoot is wriggling in a sense of guilt and remorse after his actions has seen death threats land at willie collums door.

This story makes me feel sick, its very difficult to have any pride in the scottish game at the minute due to bullying of the referees, not only by fans but by the managers.

EMBARASSING

[LeithBoozy]

It is differant rules for the old-firm, when Boyd hit wee Zouma with a forearm smash right in front of the ref at Ibrox, a straight red. No only obstuction says he?. He maybe did not fancy a visit from Weatherseal, its becoming more farcical every year. :agree:

[KiddA]

Sky Sports News reporting that Willie Collum has received threatening phone calls on the back of the Old Firm game at the weekend.

The Greatest Fans In The World, right enough...:bitchy:

Sour grapes :agree: Neil Lennon should get a massive fine from the sfa for instigating this, as its bang out of order. I watched the game and Rangers were a cut above but lets blame the ref :bitchy:

Neil Lennon was a complete c### as a player and the same as a manager :agree:

Was p#ssing my sides watching that little fud on the sideline and knew he was going to blame the ref at the end of the game.

Take the green celtic tinted glasses of you ginger fud :grr:

[Sylar]

Death threats to Willie Collum's home..

this is a disgrace, and i hope these 'football fans' are found, named, shamed and dealt with appropriately ( although sadly that will not be the case). This comes in the same week that Stephen Craven has RESIGNED over the matters involving the penalty last week at tannadice. It is a sad state of affairs that the officials in the scottish game are being driven out by sick yobs forgetting the important things in life.

Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). If a player DIVES the referee isn't necessarily going to see it that way. the player dived hoping to 'trick' the ref , and that is exactly what he managed to do.

WHERE IS KIRK BROADFOOT? surely this cretin has to come forward and make an apology, not necesarily to Celtic fans, but i think a public apology to the referee and his officials.

I hope that broadfoot is wriggling in a sense of guilt and remorse after his actions has seen death threats land at willie collums door.

This story makes me feel sick, its very difficult to have any pride in the scottish game at the minute due to bullying of the referees, not only by fans but by the managers.

EMBARASSING


Death threats to Willie Collum's home..

this is a disgrace, and i hope these 'football fans' are found, named, shamed and dealt with appropriately ( although sadly that will not be the case). This comes in the same week that Stephen Craven has RESIGNED over the matters involving the penalty last week at tannadice. It is a sad state of affairs that the officials in the scottish game are being driven out by sick yobs forgetting the important things in life.

Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). If a player DIVES the referee isn't necessarily going to see it that way. the player dived hoping to 'trick' the ref , and that is exactly what he managed to do.

WHERE IS KIRK BROADFOOT? surely this cretin has to come forward and make an apology, not necesarily to Celtic fans, but i think a public apology to the referee and his officials.

I hope that broadfoot is wriggling in a sense of guilt and remorse after his actions has seen death threats land at willie collums door.

This story makes me feel sick, its very difficult to have any pride in the scottish game at the minute due to bullying of the referees, not only by fans but by the managers.

EMBARASSING

Almost as embarrassing as copying and pasting a response :bye:

[Part/Time Supporter]

Absolutely shocking that Collum has received death threats, but I think the focus on Lennon is a little OTT.

If it were to happen to Hibs, we would be wanting our board to write to the SFA asking for an explanation into the rather blatant decisions. I don't think there's a single manager out there who wouldn't feel a little bit aggrieved.

Secondly, Lennon isn't "coming out and whinging" about the decisions - he's been asked questions by a pack of bloodthirsty media, desperate to spin a story into something much grander than it actually is.

The fact that so many people are using the Samaras, Stokes and first McCulloch yellow aren't evidence to the contrary of anything - they're just further evidence that Collum didn't have a good game on Sunday, as all were pretty obvious decisions IMO - still not warranting the receipt of death threats mind you.

I dislike Lennon (in the ol' panto villain role) as much as the next guy, but he's taking some amount of unfair battering for answering honestly, questions which are being posed to him.

Lennon was initially asked post-match whether he thought it was a penalty. He chose to focus on the referee rather than any of the players involved, particularly Majstorovic and Broadfoot.

[JackRegan]

Who was the ref they followed determined to gather evidence that he was a mason? This was sanctioned by the club was it not?

The ref was Jim mcCluskey, an orangeman, who was done for D&D at an Orange Walk in Kilmarnock.

The Private Eye was hired by the Celtic Supporters Association and was not sanctioned by the club in anyway.

To be fair to mccluskey he actually attended an interview with Not the View where, after he had retired he apologised about some of his dodgy decisions.

[matty_f]

The ref was Jim mcCluskey, an orangeman, who was done for D&D at an Orange Walk in Kilmarnock.

The Private Eye was hired by the Celtic Supporters Association and was not sanctioned by the club in anyway.

To be fair to mccluskey he actually attended an interview with Not the View where, after he had retired he apologised about some of his dodgy decisions.

Do we know if any rangers fans sent him threatening letters our made threatening phone calls for making this apology, or are rangers fans above that level?

[Steve20]

Have Celtic ever lost a match without being cheated? :greengrin

[EskbankHibby]

Have Celtic ever lost a match without being cheated? :greengrin

Nope, it would be 122 in a row if it wasn't for those pesky refs/masons/orangemen/SFA.

Unbelievably tiresome the way they go on isn't it?

[JackRegan]

Do we know if any rangers fans sent him threatening letters our made threatening phone calls for making this apology, or are rangers fans above that level?

Rangers would need to feel aggrived at referees in the first instance.

If you can give me an instance where referees cost them the game then feel free.

Although I notice on here, people are buying the tabloid line that Lennon is to blame for this. Lennon was asked questions on referees and their decisions and he answered then honestly.

what he said was no worse that what any other manager has said when aggrived at decisions - even when TV shows teh ref to be right and the managers complaints to be unfounded - witness Jim Jeffires.

As for the "death threats" I'm not convinced at their authenticity or veracity.

Threats is one thinsg , un provoked actual attacks such as those on Lennon, Darren O'Dea and McGeady are another.

[JackRegan]

Jack, I think Celtic FC would get some credit here if they condemned the morons who have issued threats. I also agree with other posters who have claimed that Celtic have been very poor winners and losers over the years - that has certainly been my experience following Hibs since 1973.

Having said that, I do agree with your point about Rangers being the main benefactors of refereeing decisions. This has gone on for decades and I reckon the only reason they get away with it is due to the predominantly Rangers minded media who turn a blind eye to it.

I also think your idea of foreign referees is a good one but I wouldn't restrict this to OF games. I think the standard of Scottish refereeing is shocking and our game would only improve by using foreign refs IMO.

good post. Cheers.

I would say we are better losers than winners actually. We are bad winners for sure, but okay losers compared to some i could mention.

[matty_f]

Rangers would need to feel aggrived at referees in the first instance.

If you can give me an instance where referees cost them the game then feel free.

Although I notice on here, people are buying the tabloid line that Lennon is to blame for this. Lennon was asked questions on referees and their decisions and he answered then honestly.

what he said was no worse that what any other manager has said when aggrived at decisions - even when TV shows teh ref to be right and the managers complaints to be unfounded - witness Jim Jeffires.

As for the "death threats" I'm not convinced at their authenticity or veracity.

Threats is one thinsg , un provoked actual attacks such as those on Lennon, Darren O'Dea and McGeady are another.

jack, unless rangers are playing hibs I pay no attention to their games, other than the odd old firm game, same with every other spl side, therefore I don't have enough examples of any of their decisions to give you.

Good now that the threats appear to have been made up, would that have been done just to show up the nasty catholics?

[--------]

Death threats to Willie Collum's home..

this is a disgrace, and i hope these 'football fans' are found, named, shamed and dealt with appropriately ( although sadly that will not be the case). This comes in the same week that Stephen Craven has RESIGNED over the matters involving the penalty last week at tannadice. It is a sad state of affairs that the officials in the scottish game are being driven out by sick yobs forgetting the important things in life.

Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). If a player DIVES the referee isn't necessarily going to see it that way. the player dived hoping to 'trick' the ref , and that is exactly what he managed to do.

WHERE IS KIRK BROADFOOT? surely this cretin has to come forward and make an apology, not necesarily to Celtic fans, but i think a public apology to the referee and his officials.

I hope that broadfoot is wriggling in a sense of guilt and remorse after his actions has seen death threats land at willie collums door.

This story makes me feel sick, its very difficult to have any pride in the scottish game at the minute due to bullying of the referees, not only by fans but by the managers.

EMBARASSING


I disagree with you in one thing - from all I've seen in the replays, the penalty decision was a good one. There was illegal contact inside the 18-yard box, and whether Broadfoot 'made a meal of it' or not, the decision was the right one.

I consider that Willie Collum refereed the game well and fairly, and only the perpetually paranoid Greatest Football Fans In The Whole Wide World and the perennially irresponsible and partisan Scottish football media could turn this into the circus it's become.

Nor do I consider, as some here do, that Rangers get more benefit from biased referees than Celtic. Officials, managers, players and fans of Celtic FC have peddled this myth over all the years I've watched football. It's their way of putting pressure on referees and assistants to ensure that Celtic get much more than their fair share of 'debatable' decisions given in THEIR favour. I'm not sure whether the deliberate cheating or the hypocrisy stinks worse.

IMO a referee CAN be influenced by the crowd's reaction to an incident - if a tackle is followed by a roar from one section of the crowd, he MAY be more likely to see that challenge as illegal than if there had been little or no reaction. And clearly some referees and assistants wrongly carry their club allegiances into matches when they should leave them at home.

But that one referee should have been hounded out of the game by threats of violence from criminals who support Celtic, and another now being threatened by another bunch of criminals supporting the same club, all to a background of silence and non-condemnation from the club itself, tells us ALL we need to know about the club and a fair-sized section of its support.

Whatever their apologists may try to say, right now we're talking about Celtic and THEIR support, not Rangers and theirs. I'm sure that next time the Rangers club and support offend (and I really don't think it'll be long before they do), we'll be on here discussing THAT.

But right now it's Celtic who are out of line, and badly.

[Aubenas]

This is not just about Lennon - who is just doing what he's been taught by other managers.
As I previously posted:
unless managers punish players for disputing decisions instead of encouraging them to do so
unless managers refuse to comment when asked provocative questions by gutter journalists
unless the SFA punish all mangers and players who have a go at refs

this will get worse.

The rules of the game (and indeed all games) say the referee's decision is final.How thick do you have to be not to understand that?

Or is it a handy way of deflecting criticism and an easy way of sooking up to the fans?

And, as for the threats, my information is that they are a fact, and I am in a position to know.

[JackRegan]

I disagree with you in one thing - from all I've seen in the replays, the penalty decision was a good one. There was illegal contact inside the 18-yard box, and whether Broadfoot 'made a meal of it' or not, the decision was the right one.

I consider that Willie Collum refereed the game well and fairly, and only the perpetually paranoid Greatest Football Fans In The Whole Wide World and the perennially irresponsible and partisan Scottish football media could turn this into the circus it's become.

Nor do I consider, as some here do, that Rangers get more benefit from biased referees than Celtic. Officials, managers, players and fans of Celtic FC have peddled this myth over all the years I've watched football. It's their way of putting pressure on referees and assistants to ensure that Celtic get much more than their fair share of 'debatable' decisions given in THEIR favour. I'm not sure whether the deliberate cheating or the hypocrisy stinks worse.

IMO a referee CAN be influenced by the crowd's reaction to an incident - if a tackle is followed by a roar from one section of the crowd, he MAY be more likely to see that challenge as illegal than if there had been little or no reaction. And clearly some referees and assistants wrongly carry their club allegiances into matches when they should leave them at home.

But that one referee should have been hounded out of the game by threats of violence from criminals who support Celtic, and another now being threatened by another bunch of criminals supporting the same club, all to a background of silence and non-condemnation from the club itself, tells us ALL we need to know about the club and a fair-sized section of its support.

Whatever their apologists may try to say, right now we're talking about Celtic and THEIR support, not Rangers and theirs. I'm sure that next time the Rangers club and support offend (and I really don't think it'll be long before they do), we'll be on here discussing THAT.

But right now it's Celtic who are out of line, and badly.

Doddie, If you read my post, you would see that it was not celtic nor Celtic Fans who have forced Steven Craven to retire.

even the huns on FF are saying this.

The club are perfectly entitled to question poor refereeing and Neil Lennon has said nothing that other managers have not said countless other times.

[JackRegan]

jack, unless rangers are playing hibs I pay no attention to their games, other than the odd old firm game, same with every other spl side, therefore I don't have enough examples of any of their decisions to give you.

Good now that the threats appear to have been made up, would that have been done just to show up the nasty catholics?

Why mention "catholics"?????

I would say it provides a convenient issue on which to deflect things and turn the heat towrds Lennon.

The tablod media have already laid the blame at his door. Yet he said nothing contentious at all in the circumstances.

[marinello59]

Why mention "catholics"?????

I would say it provides a convenient issue on which to deflect things and turn the heat towrds Lennon.

The tablod media have already laid the blame at his door. Yet he said nothing contentious at all in the circumstances.

Why did he feel the need to put pressure on the ref before the game? Why diid he say pre-season that he wanted his players hounding the referee if decisions went against them? Part of his game plan was to pressurise refs all season. He can't shrug his shoulders now and say 'it wisna me.' Are you seriously suggesting Lennon is totally innocent here? Why didn't he just keep his mouth shut about what the ref should or shouldn't do beforehand. Surely it goes without saying that managers hope the ref has a good game. (He is doing a great job of deflecting attention from his own inability to win the games that matter though isn't he?)

[matty_f]

Why mention "catholics"?????

I would say it provides a convenient issue on which to deflect things and turn the heat towrds Lennon.


tablod media have already laid the blame at his door. Yet he said nothing contentious at all in the circumstances.

I mentioned catholics as you've heavily suggested throughout the thread that being catholic is the reason for the perceived persecution.

[JackRegan]

Why did he feel the need to put pressure on the ref before the game? Why diid he say pre-season that he wanted his players hounding the referee if decisions went against them? Part of his game plan was to pressurise refs all season. He can't shrug his shoulders now and say 'it wisna me.' Are you seriously suggesting Lennon is totally innocent here? Why didn't he just keep his mouth shut about what the ref should or shouldn't do beforehand. Surely it goes without saying that managers hope the ref has a good game. (He is doing a great job of deflecting attention from his own inability to win the games that matter though isn't he?)

He never. He was asked a question about the referee which he answered and, given the contentious nature of the refereeing Celtic witnessed in this fixture last season, he was perfectly entitled to take the line he did.

He said what any other manager would have said and have said, frequently, under those circumstances.

Under no circumstances can Lennon be blamed for the alleged death threats on Collum.

I'll ask again, who put him under more pressure, Lennon or Hugh Keevins who made a point of referring to Collum as "Scotland's most high Profile Roman Catholic referee" or when the Sun mention what school he worked at in 2008?

[JackRegan]

I mentioned catholics as you've heavily suggested throughout the thread that being catholic is the reason for the perceived persecution.

I have not. My only mention of this was to point out that an irresponsible journalist printed Collum's faith

but to suggest that Celtic (fans, clubs, management etc) are not disliked by some because of this is simply untrue.

[Jim44]

[QUOTE=HibeePaj;2618672]Willie Collum had a GOOD game on sunday and made one mistake (albeit a penalty decision). QUOTE]

I disagree strongly. Stokes should have been sent off for that shocking ankle breaking tackle. Lennon's 'warning/persuasion' must have been ringing in his ears at such an early stage in the game and the referee's 'chickening out' was clear to see. And he's supposed to be our best referee.:bitchy:

[matty_f]

I have not. My only mention of this was to point out that an irresponsible journalist printed Collum's faith

but to suggest that Celtic (fans, clubs, management etc) are not disliked by some because of this is simply untrue.
Did I just imagine all the guff about lennon's attack and real radio then?

W youere not spouting pish about people being glad because he was a tim?

[SidBurns]

Jack, I think Celtic FC would get some credit here if they condemned the morons who have issued threats. I also agree with other posters who have claimed that Celtic have been very poor winners and losers over the years - that has certainly been my experience following Hibs since 1973.

Having said that, I do agree with your point about Rangers being the main benefactors of refereeing decisions. This has gone on for decades and I reckon the only reason they get away with it is due to the predominantly Rangers minded media who turn a blind eye to it.

I also think your idea of foreign referees is a good one but I wouldn't restrict this to OF games. I think the standard of Scottish refereeing is shocking and our game would only improve by using foreign refs IMO.

Oh that'll be those foreign refs that study the EXACT same Laws of The Game as us Scottish refs! Why are they going to be any different!?!

[marinello59]

He never. He was asked a question about the referee which he answered and, given the contentious nature of the refereeing Celtic witnessed in this fixture last season, he was perfectly entitled to take the line he did.

He said what any other manager would have said and have said, frequently, under those circumstances.

Under no circumstances can Lennon be blamed for the alleged death threats on Collum.

I'll ask again, who put him under more pressure, Lennon or Hugh Keevins who made a point of referring to Collum as "Scotland's most high Profile Roman Catholic referee" or when the Sun mention what school he worked at in 2008?

So you saying Lennon is free of all blame here Why didn't he just say nothing pre-match? We are frequently told that he is one of the more intelligent managers about yet you are suggesting he was led astray by those nasty journalists. Maybe he is just a thick tosser then.
And what about his instructions pre season to his players to hound the referee, is that not all part of the same game?

[cabbageandribs1875]

and to balance up the vileness of the other half of scotlands shame http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/10/27/police-called-as-gang-of-thugs-lay-siege-to-home-of-celtic-star-anthony-stokes-86908-22661385/

A GANG of thugs laid siege to Celtic star Anthony Stokes's home as his parents cowered inside after Sunday's Old Firm clash.

Police were called after 15 thugs gathered outside his home.

A witness told the Record: "There was a mob of about 15 outside Anthony's house.

"The were singing anti-Catholic songs and saying they were going to 'kill the Fenian b*****d'.

two sides of a horrible vile bigoted sectarian scottish public.

[JackRegan]

Did I just imagine all the guff about lennon's attack and real radio then?

W youere not spouting pish about people being glad because he was a tim?

Read my posts again Matty. I said for some, yes it was an issue, for some it was not.

its really quite simple.

[Jim44]

and to balance up the vileness of the other half of scotlands shame http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/10/27/police-called-as-gang-of-thugs-lay-siege-to-home-of-celtic-star-anthony-stokes-86908-22661385/

A GANG of thugs laid siege to Celtic star Anthony Stokes's home as his parents cowered inside after Sunday's Old Firm clash.

Police were called after 15 thugs gathered outside his home.

A witness told the Record: "There was a mob of about 15 outside Anthony's house.

"The were singing anti-Catholic songs and saying they were going to 'kill the Fenian b*****d'.

two sides of a horrible vile bigoted sectarian scottish public.

Welcome to the 'wild west' Anthony. You didn't help matters with your shocking tackle but nobody deserves an attack from vigilantes.

[matty_f]

and to balance up the vileness of the other half of scotlands shame http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2010/10/27/police-called-as-gang-of-thugs-lay-siege-to-home-of-celtic-star-anthony-stokes-86908-22661385/

A GANG of thugs laid siege to Celtic star Anthony Stokes's home as his parents cowered inside after Sunday's Old Firm clash.

Police were called after 15 thugs gathered outside his home.

A witness told the Record: "There was a mob of about 15 outside Anthony's house.

"The were singing anti-Catholic songs and saying they were going to 'kill the Fenian b*****d'.

two sides of a horrible vile bigoted sectarian scottish public.
Probably just a sort to distract criticism away from the celtc fans...

[matty_f]

Read my posts again Matty. I said for some, yes it was an issue, for some it was not.

its really quite simple.

Then surely not that difficult to see why I mentioned catholics then, unless you, too, are quite simple.

[JackRegan]

So you saying Lennon is free of all blame here Why didn't he just say nothing pre-match? We are frequently told that he is one of the more intelligent managers about yet you are suggesting he was led astray by those nasty journalists. Maybe he is just a thick tosser then.
And what about his instructions pre season to his players to hound the referee, is that not all part of the same game?

I'll say again - read Lennon's actual quotes. Watch his press conferences and don't be de led by the journalists interpretation of what Lennon said.

As for his pre seaosn instruction about pressing the referee..

Okay did you see what the Dundee united players did last weekend then? there was 6 of them at mcDonald and HE changed his mind - Not the linesman, so it would appear that pressure does work.

Now fast forward to Sunday - How many Celtic players were in Collums face when he gave teh penalty? One. Majstorovic who was involved in the incident.

also - ask yourself this - who's players hound the referee more: Celtic or Rangers?

do you think Nosurname says "look guys - gie the ref a break" :confused:

Yet Nosurname was the press TERRIFIED from him and its' "Wily old walter" Yet, Neil Lennon, who said less about refs than Jeffires or even Peter Houston last weekend, is irresponsible and being blamed for a ref getting a nasty phone call.

BTw Where do they get their numbers from? Is their a "Grade One Referees" section in Yellow Pages?

Or was it the fact that the papers printed his workplace, what his faith was :confused: and even what town he lived in?

[JackRegan]

Then surely not that difficult to see why I mentioned catholics then, unless you, too, are quite simple.

matty, discussion with you on here always take a familiar turn.

you twist and shift the agenda when your original point has been lost.

this is no different. :bye:

But for your peace of mind Why would it be done to quote "to show up the nasty catholics?"

Why bring a religion of what 1 billion people into it? Hwo do we knw they were Catholcis? Surely the term Celtic fan would have been more apt?

[matty_f]

matty, discussion with you on here always take a familiar turn.

you twist and shift the agenda when your original point has been lost.

this is no different. :bye:

But for your peace of mind Why would it be done to quote "to show up the nasty catholics?"

Why bring a religion of what 1 billion people into it? Hwo do we knw they were Catholcis? Surely the term Celtic fan would have been more apt?
See previous answer as the point remains. If you're not bright enough to get it the first time I'm not wasting time repeating it.

[JackRegan]

See previous answer as the point remains. If you're not bright enough to get it the first time I'm not wasting time repeating it.

:dummytit::dummytit:

[matty_f]

:dummytit::dummytit:

Wind your neck in.

[easty]

matty, discussion with you on here always take a familiar turn.

you twist and shift the agenda when your original point has been lost.

this is no different. :bye:

But for your peace of mind Why would it be done to quote "to show up the nasty catholics?"

Why bring a religion of what 1 billion people into it? Hwo do we knw they were Catholcis? Surely the term Celtic fan would have been more apt?

Discussions with Celtic fans always take a familiar turn.....not our fault....they're out to get us....what about the time Rangers got this/that.....yawn.:yawn:

Lennon put unfair pressure on the ref before the old firm game. I couldn't care less how you want us to look at the 'evidence of him just answering questions' comes into it. Lennon is a fud but he's not completely mentally ******ed, he knew (and you know) what he was acheiving by saying what he did.

The penalty that was overturned against United was the correct decision, the penalty, that i'll admit Broadfoot 'won', at the weekend was the correct decision also.

Celtic fans....get over yourselves.

[Jim44]

The penalty that was overturned against United was the correct decision, the penalty, that i'll admit Broadfoot 'won', at the weekend was the correct decision also.


I don't know how you make this out. It was no penalty as there was no contact because of Broadfoot's lack of timing. If he had kept going forward with his normal momentum, it was a certain penalty. However, by my perverse sense of justice, it was amusing to see Lennon's attempt to 'control and police' the referee backfire in his face.

[easty]

I don't know how you make this out. It was no penalty as there was no contact because of Broadfoot's lack of timing. If he had kept going forward with his normal momentum, it was a certain penalty. However, by my perverse sense of justice, it was amusing to see Lennon's attempt to 'control and police' the referee backfire in his face.

What? There was clearly contact. Both players left knees come together. Like I said Broadfoot 'won' the penalty because he saw that the defender wasn't going to be able to get out the way, but there was clearly contact between the two.

[swazzie]

I'll say again - read Lennon's actual quotes. Watch his press conferences and don't be de led by the journalists interpretation of what Lennon said.

As for his pre seaosn instruction about pressing the referee..

Okay did you see what the Dundee united players did last weekend then? there was 6 of them at mcDonald and HE changed his mind - Not the linesman, so it would appear that pressure does work.

Now fast forward to Sunday - How many Celtic players were in Collums face when he gave teh penalty? One. Majstorovic who was involved in the incident.

also - ask yourself this - who's players hound the referee more: Celtic or Rangers?

do you think Nosurname says "look guys - gie the ref a break" :confused:

Yet Nosurname was the press TERRIFIED from him and its' "Wily old walter" Yet, Neil Lennon, who said less about refs than Jeffires or even Peter Houston last weekend, is irresponsible and being blamed for a ref getting a nasty phone call.

BTw Where do they get their numbers from? Is their a "Grade One Referees" section in Yellow Pages?

Or was it the fact that the papers printed his workplace, what his faith was :confused: and even what town he lived in?

Here, again, are Lennon's quotes

"I would say that refereeing an Old Firm game at any time is difficult but when it is your first one, he might be a wee bit extra nervous," Lennon said.

"I just hope he has a strong game.

"We felt aggrieved at some of the decisions that went against us last year so we hope that he has a good game and makes the right decisions."

So far the counter argument has been "I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable"

Is anyone genuinely arguing that these comments weren't designed to put some extra pressure on Collum?

[Jim44]

What? There was clearly contact. Both players left knees come together. Like I said Broadfoot 'won' the penalty because he saw that the defender wasn't going to be able to get out the way, but there was clearly contact between the two.

Sorry, Easty, I don't see it like you did. I think Broadfoot was well into his dive before any contact might have taken place. Maybe we'll agree to differ.

[Stevie Reid]

I've just remembered that in our second top 6 season under Mixu (season before last), we drew with the Huns at ER and Rangers were denied what appeared to be a clear goal when someone (Stevenson?) hooked a Makalamby blunder from under the crossbar - pictures appeared to show that the ball crossed the line.

The linesman in question was (until recently) my girlfriend's boss and she said that the volume of calls that he got from the press were ridiculous - no deaths threats mind.

I have no wish to defend the Buns here, but that was an incident that cost them the game (in a season when the title was decided on the last day) and the frenzy wasn't anything like this.

[easty]

Sorry, Easty, I don't see it like you did. I think Broadfoot was well into his dive before any contact might have taken place. Maybe we'll agree to differ.

I dont think so! You'll have to change your mind I'm afraid.

I'm actually not at all in an argumentative mood just now, maybe it's the effect of the Latte and caramel shortbread from Starbucks I've got, so I suppose we can agree to differ (but I am right :wink:...)

[EskbankHibby]

Here, again, are Lennon's quotes

"I would say that refereeing an Old Firm game at any time is difficult but when it is your first one, he might be a wee bit extra nervous," Lennon said.

"I just hope he has a strong game.

"We felt aggrieved at some of the decisions that went against us last year so we hope that he has a good game and makes the right decisions."

So far the counter argument has been "I don't think that that is OTT and is perfectly reasonable"

Is anyone genuinely arguing that these comments weren't designed to put some extra pressure on Collum?

Just one person it would appear. :crazy:

[marinello59]

I'll say again - read Lennon's actual quotes. Watch his press conferences and don't be de led by the journalists interpretation of what Lennon said.

As for his pre seaosn instruction about pressing the referee..

Okay did you see what the Dundee united players did last weekend then? there was 6 of them at mcDonald and HE changed his mind - Not the linesman, so it would appear that pressure does work.

Now fast forward to Sunday - How many Celtic players were in Collums face when he gave teh penalty? One. Majstorovic who was involved in the incident.

also - ask yourself this - who's players hound the referee more: Celtic or Rangers?

do you think Nosurname says "look guys - gie the ref a break" :confused:

Yet Nosurname was the press TERRIFIED from him and its' "Wily old walter" Yet, Neil Lennon, who said less about refs than Jeffires or even Peter Houston last weekend, is irresponsible and being blamed for a ref getting a nasty phone call.

BTw Where do they get their numbers from? Is their a "Grade One Referees" section in Yellow Pages?

Or was it the fact that the papers printed his workplace, what his faith was :confused: and even what town he lived in?

Which group of supporters was it that employed a private detective again?

The rest of your post didn't answer my question but provided a perfect example of how Old Firm fans resort to throwing cr@p at everybody else rather than face up to their own shortcomings.

[Hibs Class]

Which group of supporters was it that employed a private detective again?

The rest of your post didn't answer my question but provided a perfect example of how Old Firm fans resort to throwing cr@p at everybody else rather than face up to their own shortcomings.


I had thought that it was Celtic themselves that had hired the private detective but now realise from this thread that it was the Celtic supporters. However, I also have a recollection that the club itself had hired a behavioural psychologist to review Hugh Dallas's perfomance after an OF match in 1999. Although I believe the report exonerated Dallas and blamed the Celtic players for the trouble, the Celtic chief exec still blamed Dallas for initiating the trouble by being over friendly in his gestures to Rangers players. (That was the game in which a Celtic fan cut Dallas's head with a coin). It does go to show that the victim mentality at Parkhead isn't new, nor are the reprehensible tactics to play to their support and attempt to exert pressure on referees and the SFA.

[Hainan Hibs]

Nothing makes you question whether life is worthing living like yet another 5 pages with Jack Regan:boo hoo:

[easty]

Nothing makes you question whether life is worthing living like yet another 5 pages with Jack Regan:boo hoo:

Agreed. At least you can be sure he's not outside the refs house being abusive, he must be far too busy defending Celtic on the rest of the SPL sides fans forums.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I had thought that it was Celtic themselves that had hired the private detective but now realise from this thread that it was the Celtic supporters. However, I also have a recollection that the club itself had hired a behavioural psychologist to review Hugh Dallas's perfomance after an OF match in 1999. Although I believe the report exonerated Dallas and blamed the Celtic players for the trouble, the Celtic chief exec still blamed Dallas for initiating the trouble by being over friendly in his gestures to Rangers players. (That was the game in which a Celtic fan cut Dallas's head with a coin). It does go to show that the victim mentality at Parkhead isn't new, nor are the reprehensible tactics to play to their support and attempt to exert pressure on referees and the SFA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/scottish_premier/625890.stm

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FOOTBALL%3A+HUGH+BACK+IN+LINE+OF+FIRE%3B+Easter+Ro ad+crunch-a061166243

[GloryGlory]

What? There was clearly contact. Both players left knees come together. Like I said Broadfoot 'won' the penalty because he saw that the defender wasn't going to be able to get out the way, but there was clearly contact between the two.

TBH, Clubfoot looks like he was already airborne before the first contact by the Celtic defender, from some camera angles, anyway.

Not that that justifies Lennon's wee spoilt bairn attitude that "everyone's out to get us, it's no' our fault", nor does it justify the criminal behaviour of some "supporters", from whatever side of the divide they come, re threatening players' or referees' families, throwing bricks through windows, as has happened before, far less the "normal" A&E admissions for slashings, stabbings, glassings and the rest that is part of the backdrop to each and every one of the "greatest" derby games in the world.

[easty]

TBH, Clubfoot looks like he was already airborne before the first contact by the Celtic defender, from some camera angles, anyway.
Not that that justifies Lennon's wee spoilt bairn attitude that "everyone's out to get us, it's no' our fault", nor does it justify the criminal behaviour of some "supporters", from whatever side of the divide they come, re threatening players' or referees' families, throwing bricks through windows, as has happened before, far less the "normal" A&E admissions for slashings, stabbings, glassings and the rest that is part of the backdrop to each and every one of the "greatest" derby games in the world.

I wouldn't dispute that, he didn't have to be though. The defender was beaten and the ball was past him, Broadfoot was always going to run into him, it just happens that he decided (as many footballers do nowadays) to take the foul. If he hadn't looked for the pen and stayed on his feet then he still would have run into the defender and had a case for obstruction.

[Jonnyboy]

Rangers would need to feel aggrived at referees in the first instance.

If you can give me an instance where referees cost them the game then feel free.

Although I notice on here, people are buying the tabloid line that Lennon is to blame for this. Lennon was asked questions on referees and their decisions and he answered then honestly.

what he said was no worse that what any other manager has said when aggrived at decisions - even when TV shows teh ref to be right and the managers complaints to be unfounded - witness Jim Jeffires.

As for the "death threats" I'm not convinced at their authenticity or veracity.

Threats is one thinsg , un provoked actual attacks such as those on Lennon, Darren O'Dea and McGeady are another.

Can you elaborate on this point please Jack? Are you saying Collum made this all up or that the tabloids have sensationalised it by 'upping' the threats to include death of Collum and injury to his family?

I'm beginning to find myself agreeing that it's not Lennon who's causing this stooshie, at least not Lennon alone. The club are as bad as their manager by writing letters of complaint about decisions that have gone against them. I've no problem with them writing but why make that public knowledge if not to pile more pressure on the referees and the SFA.

If it's acceptable practise to write to the SFA regarding decisions that have gone against them should it not also be acceptable practise to write about decisions that went in their favour? For example, Stokes should have seen red for his challenge on Papac but only got a yellow and it's not inconceivable that Collum took that line because of the pressure being piled onto him before the game.

[Hibs Class]

Can you elaborate on this point please Jack? Are you saying Collum made this all up or that the tabloids have sensationalised it by 'upping' the threats to include death of Collum and injury to his family?

I'm beginning to find myself agreeing that it's not Lennon who's causing this stooshie, at least not Lennon alone. The club are as bad as their manager by writing letters of complaint about decisions that have gone against them. I've no problem with them writing but why make that public knowledge if not to pile more pressure on the referees and the SFA.

If it's acceptable practise to write to the SFA regarding decisions that have gone against them should it not also be acceptable practise to write about decisions that went in their favour? For example, Stokes should have seen red for his challenge on Papac but only got a yellow and it's not inconceivable that Collum took that line because of the pressure being piled onto him before the game.

I think you’re right with this. It is fair to say that there is far more institutional paranoia at CFC than there is institutional bias at the SFA. But CFC will never accept that due to their aforesaid paranoia, therefore debate with CFC or their apologists is pointless.

[blackpoolhibs]

Can you elaborate on this point please Jack? Are you saying Collum made this all up or that the tabloids have sensationalised it by 'upping' the threats to include death of Collum and injury to his family?

I'm beginning to find myself agreeing that it's not Lennon who's causing this stooshie, at least not Lennon alone. The club are as bad as their manager by writing letters of complaint about decisions that have gone against them. I've no problem with them writing but why make that public knowledge if not to pile more pressure on the referees and the SFA.

If it's acceptable practise to write to the SFA regarding decisions that have gone against them should it not also be acceptable practise to write about decisions that went in their favour? For example, Stokes should have seen red for his challenge on Papac but only got a yellow and it's not inconceivable that Collum took that line because of the pressure being piled onto him before the game.

Dont be silly John, Collum was lenient on Stokes Samaras and Ki so he could get them back later in the game with a bigger decision like the penalty. He's a very clever man.

[JackRegan]

Can you elaborate on this point please Jack? Are you saying Collum made this all up or that the tabloids have sensationalised it by 'upping' the threats to include death of Collum and injury to his family?

I'm beginning to find myself agreeing that it's not Lennon who's causing this stooshie, at least not Lennon alone. The club are as bad as their manager by writing letters of complaint about decisions that have gone against them. I've no problem with them writing but why make that public knowledge if not to pile more pressure on the referees and the SFA.

If it's acceptable practise to write to the SFA regarding decisions that have gone against them should it not also be acceptable practise to write about decisions that went in their favour? For example, Stokes should have seen red for his challenge on Papac but only got a yellow and it's not inconceivable that Collum took that line because of the pressure being piled onto him before the game.

Woudl a hun have got sent off for it? No., especially when you consider what Bougherra, Lafferty and mcCulloch got away with last season, so in terms of consistency, it should not have been a red card for Stokes.

As for the "death threats", I don't class it as seriosu as actual assaults that actually happen to Celtic staff, as opposed to random calls made by some bammed up fantasist. FFS Even Collum said he never neede Police Protection.

That said, I do hope they get and bang up whoever made the calls.

as for teh "pressure piled on by lennon" - He said less than loads of otehr managers, even the worlds most lauded ones and less than what Smith has come out with - His famous "Mr Murphy" comment that I have quoted on thsi thread or how he led the press into a witch hunt of Steven Conroy follwoing him sending off Mendes at Kilmarnock.

Oh and what manager says "For me the match starts with the pre match press conference and the game is notover until the last word of the post match press conference"??

Answer: Jose Mourinho

In light of the refereeing in old firm games last season and what went on at Tannadice, Neil Lennon was perfectly entitled to make the comments that he did.

But hey, to some, Its not hwat was said but who said it that it comes down to.

"Did ye hear whit Neil Lennon came oot way?" :boo hoo:

If Nosurname had said what lennon did it would be "wily old Walter" :agree:

Don't see anybody on here denying that.

[JackRegan]

I had thought that it was Celtic themselves that had hired the private detective but now realise from this thread that it was the Celtic supporters. However, I also have a recollection that the club itself had hired a behavioural psychologist to review Hugh Dallas's perfomance after an OF match in 1999. Although I believe the report exonerated Dallas and blamed the Celtic players for the trouble, the Celtic chief exec still blamed Dallas for initiating the trouble by being over friendly in his gestures to Rangers players. (That was the game in which a Celtic fan cut Dallas's head with a coin). It does go to show that the victim mentality at Parkhead isn't new, nor are the reprehensible tactics to play to their support and attempt to exert pressure on referees and the SFA.

Dallas' handling of that game was bent from the word go.

[Ritchie]

Woudl a hun have got sent off for it? No., especially when you consider what Bougherra, Lafferty and mcCulloch got away with last season, so in terms of consistency, it should not have been a red card for Stokes.

As for the "death threats", I don't class it as seriosu as actual assaults that actually happen to Celtic staff, as opposed to random calls made by some bammed up fantasist. FFS Even Collum said he never neede Police Protection.

That said, I do hope they get and bang up whoever made the calls.

as for teh "pressure piled on by lennon" - He said less than loads of otehr managers, even the worlds most lauded ones and less than what Smith has come out with - His famous "Mr Murphy" comment that I have quoted on thsi thread or how he led the press into a witch hunt of Steven Conroy follwoing him sending off Mendes at Kilmarnock.

Oh and what manager says "For me the match starts with the pre match press conference and the game is notover until the last word of the post match press conference"??

Answer: Jose Mourinho

In light of the refereeing in old firm games last season and what went on at Tannadice, Neil Lennon was perfectly entitled to make the comments that he did.

But hey, to some, Its not hwat was said but who said it that it comes down to.

"Did ye hear whit Neil Lennon came oot way?" :boo hoo:

If Nosurname had said what lennon did it would be "wily old Walter" :agree:

Don't see anybody on here denying that.

when did you become dyslexic???

[Hibs Class]

Dallas' handling of that game was bent from the word go.


Can I refer you to post 151?

[PaulSmith]

Dallas' handling of that game was bent from the word go.

You've totally lost it mate, the sheer inability to accept that your greatest rivals pissed all over you in your own backyard and also won the league at the same time makes it totally implausible to you, and your likes, that it couldn't have happened without some form of cheating.

[Jonnyboy]

Woudl a hun have got sent off for it? No., especially when you consider what Bougherra, Lafferty and mcCulloch got away with last season, so in terms of consistency, it should not have been a red card for Stokes.

As for the "death threats", I don't class it as seriosu as actual assaults that actually happen to Celtic staff, as opposed to random calls made by some bammed up fantasist. FFS Even Collum said he never neede Police Protection.

That said, I do hope they get and bang up whoever made the calls.

as for teh "pressure piled on by lennon" - He said less than loads of otehr managers, even the worlds most lauded ones and less than what Smith has come out with - His famous "Mr Murphy" comment that I have quoted on thsi thread or how he led the press into a witch hunt of Steven Conroy follwoing him sending off Mendes at Kilmarnock.

Oh and what manager says "For me the match starts with the pre match press conference and the game is notover until the last word of the post match press conference"??

Answer: Jose Mourinho

In light of the refereeing in old firm games last season and what went on at Tannadice, Neil Lennon was perfectly entitled to make the comments that he did.

But hey, to some, Its not hwat was said but who said it that it comes down to.

"Did ye hear whit Neil Lennon came oot way?" :boo hoo:

If Nosurname had said what lennon did it would be "wily old Walter" :agree:

Don't see anybody on here denying that.

The crux of the matter is that if ref's are incompetent - NL said WC had some answers to give following his mistakes - then they are incompetent when refereeing all games. Every other fan of every other club can cite you examples of where a ref made a mistake that cost hi/her club in a match but do they all go writing to the SFA? No.

Bottom line Jack is that Celtic fans like yourself are incapable of accepting that referees make mistakes as it doesn't fit you're 'everybody's against us' stance

[johnrebus]

I know that I'll get pelters for this, but I agree with a lot of what Jacks says.

The media fawning of the untouchable 'Unlce Walter' fair gie's me the dry boak and it does seem that Celtic do get a raw deal from certtain refs -only against Rangers though.

Where his argument falls flat on its face though is because of Neil Lennon himself - a bigger and more obnoxious prick it is hard to imagine. Can't remember who the ref was that bottled his sending off at ER a few years ago when he attemted to headbutt Scott Broon whilst already on a booking? We were 2-0 up at the time and the game would have been over. Needless to say, the bastartd in the black bottled it.

Remember that one Jack?

:wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

if you play cameron's voice backwards at a certain speed he definitely says something about tims, and the newspaper report in the evening times had some sort of anagram where if you took out the letters needed to spell ' lennon is a tim' you'd be able to see that they called him a tim.

:hilarious


Nothing makes you question whether life is worthing living like yet another 5 pages with Jack Regan:boo hoo:

I like Jack. I don't always agree with his points but he always stands up for himself and uses decent examples and arguments. It's not easy being the only one against loads of others, a lot of who are trying to goad him rather than discuss - I've been in his situation on kickback a couple of times and it's not easy!

[Danderhall Hibs]

I know that I'll get pelters for this, but I agree with a lot of what Jacks says.

The media fawning of the untouchable 'Unlce Walter' fair gie's me the dry boak and it does seem that Celtic do get a raw deal from certtain refs -only against Rangers though.

Where his argument falls flat on its face though is because of Neil Lennon himself - a bigger and more obnoxious prick it is hard to imagine. Can't remember who the ref was that bottled his sending off at ER a few years ago when he attemted to headbutt Scott Broon whilst already on a booking? We were 2-0 up at the time and the game would have been over. Needless to say, the bastartd in the black bottled it.

Remember that one Jack?

:wink:

Good post. I remember that incident very well - Brown was booked and we were all waiting on Lennon getting his 2nd yellow but the ref overlooked it. They came back to get a draw.

[blackpoolhibs]

Good post. I remember that incident very well - Brown was booked and we were all waiting on Lennon getting his 2nd yellow but the ref overlooked it. They came back to get a draw.

Thats cant be right, the establishment don't want them to win, why would they do such a thing?

[ancienthibby]

I may be inhibited in many respects, but I have seen the BBC highlights of the game.

Recognising that, the highlights as displayed showed me the following:

Stokes should have been red-carded:
Samaras should have been red-carded;
MacCullough should have been red-carded;
Broadfoot should have been red-carded;

The second Rangers goal was a result of a horrible mistake from FF the Celtic goalie;

The third Rankgers goal should never have occurred as it was a result of a pure dive.

Correct Result from real football:

1-1.

Story, end of!!
:devil:

[Barney McGrew]

You've totally lost it mate, the sheer inability to accept that your greatest rivals pissed all over you in your own backyard and also won the league at the same time makes it totally implausible to you, and your likes, that it couldn't have happened without some form of cheating.

:agree:

And it's exactly the same in the aftermath of Sunday. Lennon has cleverly shifted the blame from himself and Celtc's poor performance by (yet again:rolleyes:) suggesting the referee is the sole reason why they got horsed again by their biggest rivals in their own backyard. If the penalty hadn't been given, Rangers were already ahead by that point and the game was finished anyway and all the focus would have been on Lennon and his team/tactics.

Always cheated, never defeated. Especially when it means the difficult questions are a lot less likely to be asked if they can point the finger at someone else.

[JimBHibees]

Good post. I remember that incident very well - Brown was booked and we were all waiting on Lennon getting his 2nd yellow but the ref overlooked it. They came back to get a draw.

McCurry told the loveable lenny to go off and then come on again. Laughable.

[snooky]

McCurry told the loveable lenny to go off and then come on again. Laughable.

Ah ha! There you go - McCurry!
My memory may not be what it was but I seem to remember a post by someone of the ilk of Jack Regan (maybe it was the man himself?) saying that Mr McCurry was really a very nice man and that he knew him personally as McC was the accountant who did his father's books. :hmmm:


Work that one out for yourselves. :wink:

[matty_f]

Good post. I remember that incident very well - Brown was booked and we were all waiting on Lennon getting his 2nd yellow but the ref overlooked it. They came back to get a draw.

Can you remember if hibs wrote to the sfa about it? I remember the incident well. It was astonishing that lennon wasn't booked for a second time, until you remember who we were playing.

[Barney McGrew]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913

:aok: :hilarious

[FranckSuzy]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913

:top marks I deleted mine coz yours is better :faf:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Can you remember if hibs wrote to the sfa about it? I remember the incident well. It was astonishing that lennon wasn't booked for a second time, until you remember who we were playing.

I don't think we did, if we did we didn't go to the papers to tell them we had. In fact I think we went the opposite way and insisted that the papers didn't print anything about the incident - tbf to the papers they complied and not one of them mentioned it on their match report.

[johnbc70]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913

:top marks brilliant

[Saorsa]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913:hilarious

[matty_f]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913
:faf: brilliant!

[matty_f]

I don't think we did, if we did we didn't go to the papers to tell them we had. In fact I think we went the opposite way and insisted that the papers didn't print anything about the incident - tbf to the papers they complied and not one of them mentioned it on their match report.

:faf:

Pro-Hun bassas!:grr::grr::grr:

[Kaiser1962]

I wouldn't dispute that, he didn't have to be though. The defender was beaten and the ball was past him, Broadfoot was always going to run into him, it just happens that he decided (as many footballers do nowadays) to take the foul. If he hadn't looked for the pen and stayed on his feet then he still would have run into the defender and had a case for obstruction.

If Broadfoot gets knocked over that easily he would never make it round Asda in one piece.

[Kaiser1962]

Dallas' handling of that game was bent from the word go.

I used to quite like what you said but you are a total buffoon. What an utterly ridiculous ridiculous thing to say.

[lyonhibs]

Celtc's post-defeat brainstorming process unveiled

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs172.snc4/37953_449741637098_640282098_5618614_999994_n.jpg

Celtc admin assistant leaves commonly used form on the bus.

http://i52.tinypic.com/20zw94k.jpg

[Removed]

Just for you Jack (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jZD4cly5FSIrb3EpgPsGhQ?feat=directlink) :bye:

[Big Frank]

I know that I'll get pelters for this, but I agree with a lot of what Jacks says.

The media fawning of the untouchable 'Unlce Walter' fair gie's me the dry boak and it does seem that Celtic do get a raw deal from certtain refs -only against Rangers though.

Where his argument falls flat on its face though is because of Neil Lennon himself - a bigger and more obnoxious prick it is hard to imagine. Can't remember who the ref was that bottled his sending off at ER a few years ago when he attemted to headbutt Scott Broon whilst already on a booking? We were 2-0 up at the time and the game would have been over. Needless to say, the bastartd in the black bottled it.

Remember that one Jack?

:wink:

Superb post, and completely correct:top marks

[PaulSmith]

112 pages on Kerrydale Street devoted to 2 match officials actually making the correct decision and having the bottle to change their mind.

[easty]

If Broadfoot gets knocked over that easily he would never make it round Asda in one piece.

He didnt get knocked over, he took the foul. He didn't dive, he saw that the defender would have no chance of getting out the way and won the penalty.

Look, it's not as if I'm no saying I'd be happy about it if it happened against us and I'm certainly nae fan of Broadfoot but what he did was clever.

Hypothetically say it was Hibs v Celtic and Hart was faced with the same situation, would you want him to run into Majstorovic and get nothing (possibly a free-kick for obstruction but probably not even that) or take the contact, go down, and get us a penalty.

[Carheenlea]

Hypothetically say it was Hibs v Celtic and Hart was faced with the same situation, would you want him to run into Majstorovic and get nothing (possibly a free-kick for obstruction but probably not even that) or take the contact, go down, and get us a penalty.

Yes.

Would rather see our team play the game without resorting to cheating.

[Jonnyboy]

Hibs.net have managed to obtain a copy of the letter Celtc sent to the SFA:

6913

:faf :top marks S

[easty]

Yes.

Would rather see our team play the game without resorting to cheating.

I really don't see what Broadfoot did as cheating.

There was contact between the players, and not because Broadfoot threw out a leg looking for the contact, Majstorovic stopped Broadfoot from following his natural path and Broadfoot went down accordingly.

I've got a game on Saturday, if a striker puts the ball past me while trying to get round me and then goes down after contact between our knees then I'd have no grounds for complaint when a pen is given.

[JackRegan]

I know that I'll get pelters for this, but I agree with a lot of what Jacks says.

The media fawning of the untouchable 'Unlce Walter' fair gie's me the dry boak and it does seem that Celtic do get a raw deal from certtain refs -only against Rangers though.

Where his argument falls flat on its face though is because of Neil Lennon himself - a bigger and more obnoxious prick it is hard to imagine. Can't remember who the ref was that bottled his sending off at ER a few years ago when he attemted to headbutt Scott Broon whilst already on a booking? We were 2-0 up at the time and the game would have been over. Needless to say, the bastartd in the black bottled it.

Remember that one Jack?

:wink:

No. :wink:

We should have lost that game regardless of that decision, we were awful that day. Hibs were much more up for it.

[JackRegan]

112 pages on Kerrydale Street devoted to 2 match officials actually making the correct decision and having the bottle to change their mind.

A fine thread. :greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

I really don't see what Broadfoot did as cheating.

There was contact between the players, and not because Broadfoot threw out a leg looking for the contact, Majstorovic stopped Broadfoot from following his natural path and Broadfoot went down accordingly.

I've got a game on Saturday, if a striker puts the ball past me while trying to get round me and then goes down after contact between our knees then I'd have no grounds for complaint when a pen is given.

That old chestnut. Fitba is a contact sport. Contact is allowed. Clubfoot cheated.

[marinello59]

That old chestnut. Fitba is a contact sport. Contact is allowed. Clubfoot cheated.

Exactly. And if any sort of contact means it's fair game to cheat then it will cease to be a contact sport and become something more akin to netball.

[easty]

That old chestnut. Fitba is a contact sport. Contact is allowed. Clubfoot cheated.

What, so contacts allowed when it means getting in the way of a player who's already put the ball past you? No, I dont think it is.

I really can't believe I'm defending him but it's Majstorovic, and not Broadfoot, who is to blame for the penalty.

[lapsedhibee]

What, so contacts allowed when it means getting in the way of a player who's already put the ball past you? No, I dont think it is.


I think there is indeed a law against obstruction, though refs unaccountably seem never to apply it when defenders shepherd the ball out for a goal-kick. I thought you were arguing that the Clubfoot incident was a penalty, rather than an indirect free kick.

[Steve20]

It was never a penalty. Embarrassing dive from Broadfoot.

Broadfoot wouldn't have been on the park if Papac was able to continue after half time, having been on the end of a shocking tackle from Stokes, which was a red card all day long. Samaras should also have seen a red card, but these things don't get mentioned by Celtic. Just the decisions that go against them.

[easty]

I think there is indeed a law against obstruction, though refs unaccountably seem never to apply it when defenders shepherd the ball out for a goal-kick. I thought you were arguing that the Clubfoot incident was a penalty, rather than an indirect free kick.

If the referee had given an indirect free kick for it then I wouldn't have argued it was the wrong decision, but I also don't think he was wrong to give a penalty. You get fouls like the one on Broadfoot all over the pitch in all games of football, why shouldn't this be classed as one?

[PaulSmith]

I think there is indeed a law against obstruction, though refs unaccountably seem never to apply it when defenders shepherd the ball out for a goal-kick. I thought you were arguing that the Clubfoot incident was a penalty, rather than an indirect free kick.

If the ball is within playing distance of the defender then you are allowed to sheild the ball, it's up to the attacker to find a way around the defender.

Don't take this personally but the amount of fans who actually don't know the rules of the game is quite astonishing IMO.

[lapsedhibee]

If the referee had given an indirect free kick for it then I wouldn't have argued it was the wrong decision, but I also don't think he was wrong to give a penalty. You get fouls like the one on Broadfoot all over the pitch in all games of football, why shouldn't this be classed as one?

If you could argue that all three possible decisions (indirect free kick, penalty, no award) were equally valid and justifiable for one reason or another, then the correct decision would be to give no award, since that decision least benefits a Hun. :agree:

Irrespective of whether he was touched/brushed against/contacted, shirley you saw him dive? Why condone that? It wasn't ok when Noddy did it for the Diets, why should it be ok when Clubfoot does it for the Fullstrengths? :dunno:

[lapsedhibee]

If the ball is within playing distance of the defender then you are allowed to sheild the ball, it's up to the attacker to find a way around the defender.

But quite often it's well away from the defender, and moving further away from the defender, who is leaning into the attacker. The defender is not so much shielding the ball from the attacker, he's shielding the attacker from the ball.

[easty]

If you could argue that all three possible decisions (indirect free kick, penalty, no award) were equally valid and justifiable for one reason or another, then the correct decision would be to give no award, since that decision least benefits a Hun. :agree:

Irrespective of whether he was touched/brushed against/contacted, shirley you saw him dive? Why condone that? It wasn't ok when Noddy did it for the Diets, why should it be ok when Clubfoot does it for the Fullstrengths? :dunno:

I've looked at it again just now and in my opinion, and that of the ref, Broadfoot was fouled. I seem to just be going back to the same point over and over again, so that's the last I'll say on the subject.

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant understand why players fall over at the slightest touch. The only reason i can come up with is they are trying to con the ref. IMHO there was no penalty, and although its not clear, it looks to me as if Collum was not even looking at the challenge or lack of challenge when it happened, and only saw clubfoot falling to the ground.

For me he dived just like McGready did at easter road when he was sent off. This was of many mistakes Collum he made during the course of the 90 minutes imho. I cant se him getting another one of these games for a long time.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I cant understand why players fall over at the slightest touch.

It's because ifg you don't fall you don't get the free-kick/penalty. If you stay on your feet it's play on.

[delbert]

I'm afraid the thoughts that there would be no argument if an indirect free-kick had been awarded rather than a penalty when Broadfoot went down is totally spurious as if there is contact made, however slight, it becomes a direct free-kick offence, and therefore a penalty kick. The comment about lack of knowledge from football fans re the current Laws of the Game and more importantly, their application, is spot on, but for what it's worth, this also applies to coaches, managers, and players as well. And as for those clowns who masquerade as all knowing pundits on TV and radio, they are little more than comedy gold on a weekly basis.

[PaulSmith]

I'm afraid the thoughts that there would be no argument if an indirect free-kick had been awarded rather than a penalty when Broadfoot went down is totally spurious as if there is contact made, however slight, it becomes a direct free-kick offence, and therefore a penalty kick. The comment about lack of knowledge from football fans re the current Laws of the Game and more importantly, their application, is spot on, but for what it's worth, this also applies to coaches, managers, and players as well. And as for those clowns who masquerade as all knowing pundits on TV and radio, they are little more than comedy gold on a weekly basis.

Indeed Delbert. Listening to Roughie, Cameron and the laughable attempts by Alan Hansen to desribe the offside law when debating the Spurs goal last week on MotD proves the theory about commentators.

Likewise managers and players choose to be ignorant of the laws, if they actually took the time to understand them and interpret them correctly I think you'd see an improved team and player performance.

[lapsedhibee]

It's because if you don't fall you don't get the free-kick/penalty. If you stay on your feet it's play on.


Listening to Roughie, Cameron and the laughable attempts by Alan Hansen to desribe the offside law when debating the Spurs goal last week on MotD proves the theory about commentators.

Likewise managers and players choose to be ignorant of the laws, if they actually took the time to understand them and interpret them correctly I think you'd see an improved team and player performance.

And if refs interpreted them correctly Danderhall wouldn't have been able to make his point.

[delbert]

The penalty was'nt about interpretation, but rather simulation. Although slight contact was made, Broadfoot exaggerated his fall from that slight contact and in my opinion, I believe it was therefore a dive and the referee was effectively conned. The decision to award the penalty was, again in my opinion incorrect, but this was not because of an incorrect interpretation of the Laws, it was down to a player cheating and the referee being conned.

[blackpoolhibs]

The penalty was'nt about interpretation, but rather simulation. Although slight contact was made, Broadfoot exaggerated his fall from that slight contact and in my opinion, I believe it was therefore a dive and the referee was effectively conned. The decision to award the penalty was, again in my opinion incorrect, but this was not because of an incorrect interpretation of the Laws, it was down to a player cheating and the referee being conned.

:agree::top marks

[lapsedhibee]

The penalty was'nt about interpretation, but rather simulation. Although slight contact was made, Broadfoot exaggerated his fall from that slight contact and in my opinion, I believe it was therefore a dive and the referee was effectively conned. The decision to award the penalty was, again in my opinion incorrect, but this was not because of an incorrect interpretation of the Laws, it was down to a player cheating and the referee being conned.

But Danderhall's point is correct. On the (increasingly rare) occasions that a player stays on his feet after his heels are clipped (etc), a free-kick is rarely awarded (sometimes advantage is correctly applied, but sometimes not). Newcastle had a couple of inexperienced players in their Carling Cup tie against Arsenal the other night and the commentators were in agreement that going down was 'something they still had to learn' and their manager would 'have something to say about their honesty' etc etc etc. The general atmosphere in fitba is now such (so corrupted) that refs themselves seem to be buying into all this pish about it being big and clever to go to ground, and effectively punish players who stay on their feet.

[heretoday]

Lennon is not popular at East End Central. Pound to a penny Strachan returns by new year.



If you think that, then you are an imbecile. :agree:


I say there's no need for that! Lighten up old chap. It's only a game.

[delbert]

I think you are right about the corruption prevalent in the game just now as regards the 'morals' (for want of a better word) of some senior players and managers who clearly encourage this type of behaviour and when interviewed or quizzed on it either pretty well condone it, or say they have'nt seen anything. However, I can assure you that referees are not buying into this type of thing at all, but it is one of the hardest things in the game to spot at normal game speed, unless you are lucky enough to be at exactly the right angle to spot it. Think back to the McGeady sending off at Easter Road early last season, the original decision led to an immediate reaction from the TV pundits to slaughter thr referee, but after a number of replays, and crucially one from directly behind the referee that day showing his view, it all changed and it was agreed the decision was 100% correct and again in that instance McGeady had exaggerated his fall. Simulation is a cancer in the game, but just like that disease it's sometimes missed, and can be very difficult to get rid of, but believe me referees are trying really hard to pick it up.

[snooky]

I think you are right about the corruption prevalent in the game just now as regards the 'morals' (for want of a better word) of some senior players and managers who clearly encourage this type of behaviour and when interviewed or quizzed on it either pretty well condone it, or say they have'nt seen anything. However, I can assure you that referees are not buying into this type of thing at all, but it is one of the hardest things in the game to spot at normal game speed, unless you are lucky enough to be at exactly the right angle to spot it. Think back to the McGeady sending off at Easter Road early last season, the original decision led to an immediate reaction from the TV pundits to slaughter thr referee, but after a number of replays, and crucially one from directly behind the referee that day showing his view, it all changed and it was agreed the decision was 100% correct and again in that instance McGeady had exaggerated his fall. Simulation is a cancer in the game, but just like that disease it's sometimes missed, and can be very difficult to get rid of, but believe me referees are trying really hard to pick it up.

It would go a long way if players would 'police' the simulators in their own side (as when either Benji or Zooma dived and Rob Jones dragged him to his feet and gave him a mouthful). RJ went up mega rungs in my respect ladder after that incident.
The refs have a hard enough job making correct decisions in games. The players are the ones who could - and should - stamp out the theatrics.

[Hibs Class]

I think you are right about the corruption prevalent in the game just now as regards the 'morals' (for want of a better word) of some senior players and managers who clearly encourage this type of behaviour and when interviewed or quizzed on it either pretty well condone it, or say they have'nt seen anything. However, I can assure you that referees are not buying into this type of thing at all, but it is one of the hardest things in the game to spot at normal game speed, unless you are lucky enough to be at exactly the right angle to spot it. Think back to the McGeady sending off at Easter Road early last season, the original decision led to an immediate reaction from the TV pundits to slaughter thr referee, but after a number of replays, and crucially one from directly behind the referee that day showing his view, it all changed and it was agreed the decision was 100% correct and again in that instance McGeady had exaggerated his fall. Simulation is a cancer in the game, but just like that disease it's sometimes missed, and can be very difficult to get rid of, but believe me referees are trying really hard to pick it up.


Did the Celtic manager (Mowbray at the time?) agree it was correct?

[delbert]

He was asked to look at the video replaywhilst standing right beside the TV, and he declined to even look at it, says it all really, graceless, classless, clueless and simply wrong !! Maybe he was just in a hurry to get to a huddle !

[Hamish]

What gets me and has done for some time is players harranging refs. It seems now EVERY decision is questioned and managers have admitted to telling players to continually question decisions.
If I was the ref I would tell the 3/4/5 players who surround me that they have 5 seconds to retreat or they will be booked. Only the captain should be allowed to inquire why a particular decision was given.

[JimBHibees]

He didnt get knocked over, he took the foul. He didn't dive, he saw that the defender would have no chance of getting out the way and won the penalty.

Look, it's not as if I'm no saying I'd be happy about it if it happened against us and I'm certainly nae fan of Broadfoot but what he did was clever.

Hypothetically say it was Hibs v Celtic and Hart was faced with the same situation, would you want him to run into Majstorovic and get nothing (possibly a free-kick for obstruction but probably not even that) or take the contact, go down, and get us a penalty.

Of course he dived he was going down before any contact was made.

[HibbyAndy]

Is it true the Rangers fans ordered 2 Millers and a bitter Lennon last Sunday night?

[Joe Baker II]

Think most fans quite happy if it is players in their our own team though - remember the "He dived and we know he dived" chant when Darren Jackson won a last minute penalty at Parkhead in 1995-96 - which incidentally could have been a factor in Celtic losing league that season.

Though do not remember Celtic as a club (Burns manager then) getting so worked up about it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Some very interesting opinions on this thread. :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Im surprised and delighted I didnt contribute to this thread:greengrin Eight years bump?:stirrer:

[Onion]

What gets me and has done for some time is players harranging refs. It seems now EVERY decision is questioned and managers have admitted to telling players to continually question decisions.
If I was the ref I would tell the 3/4/5 players who surround me that they have 5 seconds to retreat or they will be booked. Only the captain should be allowed to inquire why a particular decision was given.

Problem is that haranguing the ref gets results. It's the same with players who try to stay on their feet when fouled in the box, they get nothing. But there's a good chance they'll get their side a pen if they go down. Refs only have themselves to blame.

Take our last game v St J. Had 4 or 5 Hibs players piled into the ref and made a scene after Alton's assault, chances are the ref would have reacted and sent the guy off just to defuse the situation. As it is, few Hibs players reacted and SJM made a lot less of the tackle than many would have. That allowed the ref to play the whole thing down and cover up the assault with a yellow.

[Diclonius]

Problem is that haranguing the ref gets results. It's the same with players who try to stay on their feet when fouled in the box, they get nothing. But there's a good chance they'll get their side a pen if they go down. Refs only have themselves to blame.

Take our last game v St J. Had 4 or 5 Hibs players piled into the ref and made a scene after Alton's assault, chances are the ref would have reacted and sent the guy off just to defuse the situation. As it is, few Hibs players reacted and SJM made a lot less of the tackle than many would have. That allowed the ref to play the whole thing down and cover up the assault with a yellow.

Wow. Is that the latest ever reply to a post? There are kids who weren't born when the original post was made that are now in primary school. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

Im surprised and delighted I didnt contribute to this thread:greengrin Eight years bump?:stirrer:

Same here. Must have got lucky!

And I agree, searching for and rekindling the thread was a strange thing for BH to do.

I'm looking forward to hearing what Marinello has to say about it, though. :tee hee:

[I'm_cabbaged]

I’m very impressed I never made a drunken contribution to this, but what is more impressive is the OP’s premonition 😂

[Pretty Boy]

Same here. Must have got lucky!

And I agree, searching for and rekindling the thread was a strange thing for BH to do.

I'm looking forward to hearing what Marinello has to say about it, though. :tee hee:

It wasn't really BHs doing. I linked it on the thread about Beaton to make a point about how some of the opinions about the refs strike now and then differ hugely. It's not meant as a dig at anyone, was just a general point about the fickle nature of football fans.

[Hibbyradge]

It wasn't really BHs doing. I linked it on the thread about Beaton to make a point about how some of the opinions about the refs strike now and then differ hugely. It's not meant as a dig at anyone, was just a general point about the fickle nature of football fans.

Gotcha.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm going to lock this thread.

I linked it in the thread about Beaton as an illustration of the different perceptions of the refs strike then and now and how our view changes based on what side of the fence we are on.

It's not fair that a snapshot in time gets dragged up without context. I still think my point stands that the viewpoint from then and now has changed massively but I suppose that isn't unique to this topic.