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Captain Trips
23-10-2010, 12:26 PM
Rod and Co, as we embark on yet another rebuilding conquest which we seem to do every 6 months it is now long overdue that the building starts properly, I am not interested in spending £20 - £30 per match to watch people whom do not share at least some of my passion, no value in this team. My heart will never rule head I go to matches hoping for us to do well but we all knoe there are no guarantees.

Going to games now its the good performances that are the surprise, should be other way around. credit for the stadium and debt but if CC doesnt work out I question if the board have the papers to lead this club football wise, if we are not sorted out after January then I blame the the board.

Jim44
23-10-2010, 12:36 PM
Rod and Co, as we embark on yet another rebuilding conquest which we seem to do every 6 months it is now long overdue that the building starts properly, I am not interested in spending £20 - £30 per match to watch people whom do not share at least some of my passion, no value in this team. My heart will never rule head I go to matches hoping for us to do well but we all knoe there are no guarantees.

Going to games now its the good performances that are the surprise, should be other way around. credit for the stadium and debt but if CC doesnt work out I question if the board have the papers to lead this club football wise, if we are not sorted out after January then I blame the the board.

It's maybe too early to to talk about it not working out for Calderwood, but if and when it happens, I fully expect Petrie to resign. If managers get the boot for bad results, CE's should get the bullet for continually appointing failures. Stuff the new stand and the pretty bank balance. All we want is a team that can do the business on the park.

Nailrod
23-10-2010, 01:10 PM
Six managerial failures on the trot. One common denominator. At what point will the man in charge start to question his own ability to run a football club? (With the emphasis on the football bit.)

Dunbar Hibee
23-10-2010, 01:11 PM
Six managerial failures on the trot. One common denominator. At what point will the man in charge start to question his own ability to run a football club? (With the emphasis on the football bit.)

After 1 game get a ****in grip

just_joe
23-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Jose Mourinho wouldn't even be able to do anything with that squad. Time for MASSIVE changes to be made. Obviously i wasn't there today but I feel for the fans who made the long trip in the morning to go and watch that shower of Jimmy White. Can't really get on Calderwood's case already and ofcourse he will have to asses each and everyone of the squad but from a fan who sees them every week I have to say he will be wasting his time.....I would sell most of the team. Sorry to all the Riordan lovers but he would be one of the players I would get rid of.

new malkyhib
23-10-2010, 01:18 PM
After 1 game get a ****in grip

agree that it's too early to judge the manager on one game, but it's the same cycle with this Board - we''re either "rebuilding" or "in transition" every season, as we sell any decent players we have and replace them with dross - all at the behest of the best Chairman in the universe judging by the a**e-kissing that goes on here...

Look at the boy Dickoh today - absoultely woeful - but that's the only level of player that the Board wil sanction - yet most on here thinks the sun shines out of Petrie's backside.

£400k a year for this Board - what do we get for it, ON THE PARK?

Nailrod
23-10-2010, 01:19 PM
After 1 game get a ****in gripI'm not talking about Calderwood you cretin. I'm talking about Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, and Yogi.

I make that six.

marxman
23-10-2010, 01:19 PM
How can you possibly say this is a managerial failure? this is Calderwood's first game with a team he's inherited. in a way this is a good result,it'll show the new manager what the team is made of and what needs to be changed - It's far to early to blame Calderwood for a team that's been playing poorly for many months now.

sahib
23-10-2010, 01:25 PM
Six managerial failures on the trot. One common denominator. At what point will the man in charge start to question his own ability to run a football club? (With the emphasis on the football bit.)

Six?

Hibby_Paul
23-10-2010, 01:25 PM
I'm not talking about Calderwood you cretin. I'm talking about Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, and Yogi.

I make that six.

Mowbray was hardle a failure, ok he won us nothing but took us way forward from where we were and moved on to bigger things.

sahib
23-10-2010, 01:33 PM
I'm not talking about Calderwood you cretin. I'm talking about Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, and Yogi.

I make that six.

If you cite Mowbray as a failure and Collins who won silverware then you better include Auld, Stanton, Turnbull, Miller, Stein, Shankley etc. right the way back exempting only Hugh Shaw and Willie MacCartney having won the league iirc.

down the slope
23-10-2010, 01:36 PM
I wonder if the board would have the nerve to take £400 k a year if we got relegated ?, some of the blame must lie with Petrie as he has been the man at the helm for a good many years. He has consistently sold our best players for how long ? , it must be nine years or so but i'm sure someone will correct me and in that time he must have taken over a million squidlies in salary and perks and we have to watch that Gash!.
Today reminded me of the bad old days in the sixties when we had Harry Swann as chairman who like Petrie sold everything in sight and brought in the utmost garbage as replacements and it nearly cost us our league place back then.

Nailrod
23-10-2010, 01:37 PM
Mowbray was hardle a failure, ok he won us nothing but took us way forward from where we were and moved on to bigger things.
Mowbray had the great good fortune to be blessed with the best group of young players any Hibs supporter is ever likely to see, unless they are fortunate to be old enough to have seen Turnbull's Terrors or the Famous Five (not too many of them left). Plus he got handed Zoomer and Benji gift-wrapped.

We won nothing, we had our @rses handed to us on a plate by Hearts more times than I ever want to think about, and for all his famous dictum "We'll win more than we lose if we play like that", er... we didn't.

Oh, and he signed the worst keeper I've ever seen at ER. And then renewed the guy's contract a few weeks before he horsed off.

blackpoolhibs
23-10-2010, 01:38 PM
We are *****, and if today tought Calderwood anything, it was not to rely on the ****in numpties that picked that side last week. From the outside it seemed to me he was listening to Evans and Stevenson, when picking todays team.

All Stevenson/Rankin/Hogg/Nish/McBride And Hanlon again at left back, all they need is a run in the side my arse. Hanlon is never a left back, the rest could play every week from now to the end of next season and never ever be good enough. Hogg the man of the match last week. :faf: Yes he scored twice, but as a defender, as a right back he was just as bad today as he was against Kilmarnock.

Stevenson as usual was hopeless, gives the team nothing going forward or defensively, he's not good enough. Nish, how many chances does that bloke need to score? Anyone with a minuscule amount of ability would have had a hattrick in the first half, get rid in January CC or if you have to rely on that chump scoring for you, you wont have a job very long.

Rankin, ran about like a dog just let out the car down the links. His passing range is twofold, hard or harder. Whaqt a waste of a ****in jersey again.

McBride, his job is to protect the back 4 and bring the ball out, did he get near anyone to make a tackle? And his passing was either backwards or to them. :grr:

The rest were also pish, no pass marks today, but the usual dross were absolute crap again, aq massive clear out is needed, are you up to the job Colin?

Sprouleflyer
23-10-2010, 01:39 PM
Wonder if RP hurts as much as the fans do after a display like that, or does his £150K a year wage ease the pain?????

Sprouleflyer
23-10-2010, 01:41 PM
We are *****, and if today tought Calderwood anything, it was not to rely on the ****in numpties that picked that side last week. From the outside it seemed to me he was listening to Evans and Stevenson, when picking todays team.

All Stevenson/Rankin/Hogg/Nish/McBride And Hanlon again at left back, all they need is a run in the side my arse. Hanlon is never a left back, the rest could play every week from now to the end of next season and never ever be good enough. Hogg the man of the match last week. :faf: Yes he scored twice, but as a defender, as a right back he was just as bad today as he was against Kilmarnock.

Stevenson as usual was hopeless, gives the team nothing going forward or defensively, he's not good enough. Nish, how many chances does that bloke need to score? Anyone with a minuscule amount of ability would have had a hattrick in the first half, get rid in January CC or if you have to rely on that chump scoring for you, you wont have a job very long.

Rankin, ran about like a dog just let out the car down the links. His passing range is twofold, hard or harder. Whaqt a waste of a ****in jersey again.

McBride, his job is to protect the back 4 and bring the ball out, did he get near anyone to make a tackle? And his passing was either backwards or to them. :grr:

The rest were also pish, no pass marks today, but the usual dross were absolute crap again, aq massive clear out is needed, are you up to the job Colin?

:top marks

Nailrod
23-10-2010, 01:41 PM
Oh, and he signed the worst keeper I've ever seen at ER. And then renewed the guy's contract a few weeks before he horsed off.
And credit where it's due - the worst outfield player I've ever seen as well. (Mustn't forget Konte.)

WindyMiller
23-10-2010, 01:43 PM
We are *****, and if today tought Calderwood anything, it was not to rely on the ****in numpties that picked that side last week. From the outside it seemed to me he was listening to Evans and Stevenson, when picking todays team.

All Stevenson/Rankin/Hogg/Nish/McBride And Hanlon again at left back, all they need is a run in the side my arse. Hanlon is never a left back, the rest could play every week from now to the end of next season and never ever be good enough. Hogg the man of the match last week. :faf: Yes he scored twice, but as a defender, as a right back he was just as bad today as he was against Kilmarnock.

Stevenson as usual was hopeless, gives the team nothing going forward or defensively, he's not good enough. Nish, how many chances does that bloke need to score? Anyone with a minuscule amount of ability would have had a hattrick in the first half, get rid in January CC or if you have to rely on that chump scoring for you, you wont have a job very long.

Rankin, ran about like a dog just let out the car down the links. His passing range is twofold, hard or harder. Whaqt a waste of a ****in jersey again.

McBride, his job is to protect the back 4 and bring the ball out, did he get near anyone to make a tackle? And his passing was either backwards or to them. :grr:

The rest were also pish, no pass marks today, but the usual dross were absolute crap again, aq massive clear out is needed, are you up to the job Colin?

:faf:

Matty_Jack04
23-10-2010, 02:19 PM
defending today was nothing short of disgraceful i dont blame this solely at the feet of the defenders as the midfeild must do much better in protecting the back 4

saying that and after much thought on the matter (as its certainly going to cause an uproar) but I am of the thinking that bamba's sporadic running around trying to make every tackle and every header his is unsettling the rest of the back four, he has no positional sense and alot of the time our full backs are coming in to cover his (mostly) pointless breaks foward from the back.
I like the big man he's had some cracking games but i beleive the guys ego is hampering us as a team at the moment.

the midfeild today was a sham also its not just bambas fault but i fully expect CC to be changing that as he has more time with the players, maybe try bamba running around breaking up play in the holding role and let the young guy stephens play centre half?

I certainly dont envy the task CC has ahead, I can only hope the majority of the 16 out of contract stay that way and RP gives him some serious backing over the next couple of windows, performances that we are enduring are not on IMO none of those players deserve to be anywhere near a hibs top.

Dunbar Hibee
23-10-2010, 02:26 PM
I'm not talking about Calderwood you cretin. I'm talking about Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, and Yogi.

I make that six.

Mowbray and Collins both done good enough jobs imo.

Hibby_Paul
23-10-2010, 02:49 PM
Mowbray had the great good fortune to be blessed with the best group of young players any Hibs supporter is ever likely to see, unless they are fortunate to be old enough to have seen Turnbull's Terrors or the Famous Five (not too many of them left). Plus he got handed Zoomer and Benji gift-wrapped.

We won nothing, we had our @rses handed to us on a plate by Hearts more times than I ever want to think about, and for all his famous dictum "We'll win more than we lose if we play like that", er... we didn't.

Oh, and he signed the worst keeper I've ever seen at ER. And then renewed the guy's contract a few weeks before he horsed off.

A tad harsh

He had to blend the youngsters together and form a team - he done that right. Granted he inherited a great bunch of players but they dont just play together automatically! He made some great signing in Murphy, Beuzy, Sheils although other not so good.

Secondly he played the best attacking footy ive seen at ER in all my years of going (im 29) and brought the feel good factor back to club. He put Hibs back on the map, was great with press, with fans and we were the talk of the country. I got excited evry saturday for the games, as did all my mates - that feeling has long gone.

Yes he made mistakes, he couldn't get a goalie and signing Zibi on an extension was criminal. We lost to Hearts but then they seemed to be the bogey team unfortunately.

Id far rather be seeing that exciting 'gung ho' footy again at ER - as long as we were achieving top 6 status as we were with Tony.

Im really keen to know what would impress you in a Manager for Hibs then. Alex Miller!?

Phil D. Rolls
23-10-2010, 03:05 PM
Rod and Co, as we embark on yet another rebuilding conquest which we seem to do every 6 months it is now long overdue that the building starts properly, I am not interested in spending £20 - £30 per match to watch people whom do not share at least some of my passion, no value in this team. My heart will never rule head I go to matches hoping for us to do well but we all knoe there are no guarantees.

Going to games now its the good performances that are the surprise, should be other way around. credit for the stadium and debt but if CC doesnt work out I question if the board have the papers to lead this club football wise, if we are not sorted out after January then I blame the the board.

You tell 'em!!!!

Nailrod
23-10-2010, 03:08 PM
If you cite Mowbray as a failure and Collins who won silverware... .I seem to recall that after 'the silverware', we won one of the remaining ten games that season. And we lost one that would have mattered to most Hibbys almost as much as the League Cup Final (the SC semi against bottom of the SPL Dunfermline). When Collin left at the end of the year all the players in the team he had assembled appeared to hate him...

But fair dibs. Relative to what was to follow I guess that all counts as 'partial success' (anyone remember Professor Pieface in Viz?).

Nailrod
23-10-2010, 03:13 PM
Im really keen to know what would impress you in a Manager for Hibs then. Alex Miller!?Right now? What would impress me in a Manager for Hibs would be: Any Manager, as long as he's brought in by a Chairman who appears to understand that there are two words in the phrase 'football club' and that both of them actually matter.

Jim44
23-10-2010, 04:22 PM
......his enigmatic message after the sale of Stokes. Words to the effect ' The supporters will soon come to realise that the sale of Anthony Stokes was correct and at the right time for the club.' In the absence of any meaningful strike force his words are a tad hollow.

DarlingtonHibee
23-10-2010, 04:45 PM
Wonder if RP hurts as much as the fans do after a display like that, or does his £150K a year wage ease the pain?????

RP could be earning three times that, with a lot less hassle.

He is also the most respected Chairman in the SPL - that is from other clubs praising him.

We need to realise this is a transitional period with the new manager.

How would you have picked the team after three days ?

Matty_Jack04
23-10-2010, 04:46 PM
......his enigmatic message after the sale of Stokes. Words to the effect ' The supporters will soon come to realise that the sale of Anthony Stokes was correct and at the right time for the club.' In the absence of any meaningful strike force his words are a tad hollow.

what would stokes do to change things? there is no supply, no partner to play with nothing! Stokes was obvioulsy back to his old ways off feild good ridance, time to move on jim he's gone

blackpoolhibs
23-10-2010, 04:49 PM
RP could be earning three times that, with a lot less hassle.

He is also the most respected Chairman in the SPL - that is from other clubs praising him.

We need to realise this is a transitional period with the new manager.

How would you have picked the team after three days ?

I'd have taken more advice from Carl Macar than those 2 numpties Evans and Stevenson.

DarlingtonHibee
23-10-2010, 04:49 PM
......his enigmatic message after the sale of Stokes. Words to the effect ' The supporters will soon come to realise that the sale of Anthony Stokes was correct and at the right time for the club.' In the absence of any meaningful strike force his words are a tad hollow.

Whilst Stokes is a huge loss, there were reason's why he had to go - and Yogi agreed, who brought him to the club.

DarlingtonHibee
23-10-2010, 04:58 PM
I'd have taken more advice from Carl Macar than those 2 numpties Evans and Stevenson.

Is that the 2 numpties that got us 3 points last week....

blackpoolhibs
23-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Is that the 2 numpties that got us 3 points last week....

Yes.

Phil D. Rolls
23-10-2010, 05:43 PM
Rirrum!!!

sahib
23-10-2010, 06:27 PM
Whilst Stokes is a huge loss, there were reason's why he had to go - and Yogi agreed, who brought him to the club.

Apart from balancing the books?

DarlingtonHibee
23-10-2010, 07:45 PM
Apart from balancing the books?

Yes

new malkyhib
23-10-2010, 09:12 PM
RP could be earning three times that, with a lot less hassle.

He is also the most respected Chairman in the SPL - that is from other clubs praising him.

We need to realise this is a transitional period with the new manager.

How would you have picked the team after three days ?

How many of them have we had under Chairman Rod? - and all the other clubs will praise him - his team are the softest touches in the league, because the players we sign are substandard.

Kaiser1962
24-10-2010, 08:01 AM
Not enough of us go to matches so the players we sign (or sell) reflect this.
If a manager does well then he moves on for greater riches and if he doesn't do well then we get on his back to such an extent that he leaves. The average tenure for a manager appears to be less than two years for either of those reasons. Same with a player although if they're doing badly they get ripped to pieces in a very public way but if they're playing well the can move for 10 times the wages we can pay.

Thats the reality that Rod and the board have to live with.



How many of them have we had under Chairman Rod? - and all the other clubs will praise him - his team are the softest touches in the league, because the players we sign are substandard.

Phil MaGlass
24-10-2010, 09:23 AM
Thing is our debt will start to climb over the coming years due to not having any decent players coming through to sell on, seriously who is going to pay us for the sheit we have at the moment? The only player worth anything is Deeks and to me that is worrying, as to balance the books, we have to sell??

new malkyhib
24-10-2010, 09:45 AM
Not enough of us go to matches so the players we sign (or sell) reflect this.
If a manager does well then he moves on for greater riches and if he doesn't do well then we get on his back to such an extent that he leaves. The average tenure for a manager appears to be less than two years for either of those reasons. Same with a player although if they're doing badly they get ripped to pieces in a very public way but if they're playing well the can move for 10 times the wages we can pay.

Thats the reality that Rod and the board have to live with.

So where do they find money for the beloved "infastructure"? Kaiser. Petrie never, ever takes a punt on THE TEAM - and if we are involved in a relegation battle, then the Board has to accept some level of culpability - they've had a free ride for too long IMO.

Phil D. Rolls
24-10-2010, 10:06 AM
So where do they find money for the beloved "infastructure"? Kaiser. Petrie never, ever takes a punt on THE TEAM - and if we are involved in a relegation battle, then the Board has to accept some level of culpability - they've had a free ride for too long IMO.

Nonsense.

Kaiser1962
24-10-2010, 10:47 AM
So where do they find money for the beloved "infastructure"? Kaiser. Petrie never, ever takes a punt on THE TEAM - and if we are involved in a relegation battle, then the Board has to accept some level of culpability - they've had a free ride for too long IMO.

He "took a punt" on the team under McLeish Malky and all managers ever since have been paying for that.

Managers come and go more regularly as we would like. Players (not just ours) are kissing the badge one week and saying they are being held back the next. The "infrastructure" is the building blocks of our football club and will last a lot longer than some mercenary who will swear undying love for the jersey just so long as we pay them enough.

Jones28
24-10-2010, 10:48 AM
After 1 game get a ****in grip

:agree:

Captain Trips
24-10-2010, 10:56 AM
As the starter of this thread it was not to say CC should go or isnt up to it, Im stating if it didnt work out then Rod and Co really need to look at themselves. Too many managers in 4 years.

Kaiser1962
24-10-2010, 11:06 AM
Thats fair enough Carlsberg but I fail to see what more they can do. Giving guys like Calderwood, Collins or Mowbray an opportunity to manage is the best we can do. Similar to players we cany purchase the "finished article" as we simply cant afford it. The tenure of our managers now appears to be in the 18 months to 2 years category as if they do well in that time they move on and if they do not meet our expectations they either resign or get sacked by mutual consent. The majority of us have been happy enough with the appointments that have been made at the time but they have, unhappily, not worked out.


As the starter of this thread it was not to say CC should go or isnt up to it, Im stating if it didnt work out then Rod and Co really need to look at themselves. Too many managers in 4 years.

Captain Trips
24-10-2010, 05:54 PM
Thats fair enough Carlsberg but I fail to see what more they can do. Giving guys like Calderwood, Collins or Mowbray an opportunity to manage is the best we can do. Similar to players we cany purchase the "finished article" as we simply cant afford it. The tenure of our managers now appears to be in the 18 months to 2 years category as if they do well in that time they move on and if they do not meet our expectations they either resign or get sacked by mutual consent. The majority of us have been happy enough with the appointments that have been made at the time but they have, unhappily, not worked out.

They cant do much more than appoint a manager and hope it works but as the manager then will do the exact same when he buys players, what happens when the manager signs too many that fail? he will be punted, to a lesser extent the board have failed to have a manger finish his tenure and they have walked or been sacked mostly on form.

Kaiser1962
24-10-2010, 08:15 PM
I think Calderwood is on a three year deal and it's highly unlikely that he will last that long for the reasons already stated. It will be very interesting to see what CC does in January and again at the end of the season and its really about 20 months away before we can say if he's a success or not. As someone else said this season is not looking good so it's probably about next already which is sad. Mixu recently praised Rod and it appears most managers, Collins excluded, rate him and the support he gives the manager.


They cant do much more than appoint a manager and hope it works but as the manager then will do the exact same when he buys players, what happens when the manager signs too many that fail? he will be punted, to a lesser extent the board have failed to have a manger finish his tenure and they have walked or been sacked mostly on form.

Captain Trips
24-10-2010, 08:31 PM
I think Calderwood is on a three year deal and it's highly unlikely that he will last that long for the reasons already stated. It will be very interesting to see what CC does in January and again at the end of the season and its really about 20 months away before we can say if he's a success or not. As someone else said this season is not looking good so it's probably about next already which is sad. Mixu recently praised Rod and it appears most managers, Collins excluded, rate him and the support he gives the manager.

Im not questing his support I am questiong 4 mangers in almost as many years, thats not correct. He can give the managers all the support he can but if it ends in a sacking ultimatley it was wrong choice and IMO it has happened to often now.

Kaiser1962
25-10-2010, 06:53 AM
Of the four managers only Yogi was sacked. Mixu and Collins both quit and Mowbray was poached. Mowbray was leaving when WBA came calling and there is little the board could have done to keep him. Collins took the huff when things were not going well and blamed everyone but himself and Mixu and Yogi were both hounded out. When we go looking for a manager we look for someone with something to prove or a bit of ambition. We cant afford Wenger or Mourinho so we look at guys like Derek Adams or Derek McInnes or you get the usual suspects like Nevio Scala. Out of interest who would you have appointed as manager or who would you have gone for?


Im not questing his support I am questiong 4 mangers in almost as many years, thats not correct. He can give the managers all the support he can but if it ends in a sacking ultimatley it was wrong choice and IMO it has happened to often now.

Steve-O
25-10-2010, 07:22 AM
RP could be earning three times that, with a lot less hassle.

He is also the most respected Chairman in the SPL - that is from other clubs praising him.

We need to realise this is a transitional period with the new manager.

How would you have picked the team after three days ?

FFS, I remember Blobby Williamson talking about being in a transitional period, it's all I've heard ever since! We've never come out of it! :grr:

Aldo
25-10-2010, 09:12 AM
I for one will not be expecting much this season. I am actually quite happy that there are 16 plus out of contract....gid rid of the dross and allow CC to bring in players who will actually do something on the park.

We lack leadership infact will lack just about everything. Under Hughes we have gone backwards so far its like the blobbys years. Maybe even further TBH. Under Hughes we looked like a 1st Div outfit..a team full of has beens etc. You know what I mean.

It is going to take at least 18 months to sort this out. We as fans will now have to realise this and allow CC to do his job, and a bloody hard job it is.

Sorry but bottom six this season unless our players get a rocket and all play out of their skins. (Derby on the way and I do fear we a due a humping)

Antifa Hibs
25-10-2010, 10:01 AM
This season is a write-off.

Top 6 for for an extra Derby would be good, and TBH top 6 is a must for Hibs, but i'm not expecting much. Not getting involved in a relegation battle would be good enough for me, can't believe I'm actually saying that, shows how bad its became.

I'm reading there is anything from 13-16 players out of contract next season. This is a great thing, there is only 3 players i'd keep from the current squad, 3 players good enough for Hibs. Riordan, Sol and Miller, and perhaps one of the goalies. The rest simply ain't good enough, if you sign players from Killie, Falkirk and Inverness, eventually you'll be as good (or bad!) as Killie, Falkirk and Inverness.

Crowds are down everywhere, people can't be arsed with Scottish fitba from top to bottom full-stop, add that to increasing prices, more televised matches and the most important thing, the fact we are utter utter p1sh, next season could see us back down to 5000-6000 ST's.

The board like to remind us we are a business. Why don't they start acting like one, speculate to accumulate etc. GIVE the manager some funds, source an extra £500k or something, give that to him on top of what Yogi, Mixu etc all got to spend on wages/transfers. Put some faith in the manager you appointed. IF things go well, you recoup that half mil 6-12 months down the line, increased ticket sales, merch and what have ye. At the same time IF it goes tits up, well we are £500k down, the same amount of money the board take out of us every season, so obvisouly they don't see that as a large amount of money.

Something needs to be done, otherwise we'll end up like a Killie or Aberdeen in a few years time. Which to the board won't be a bad thing as long as the books look good. :rolleyes:

Speedway
25-10-2010, 10:32 AM
What makes anyone think Rod will resign?

He's got 10% of the club and has been put in place by the guy who has the other 90%. He'll always have significant input, in terms of 'hands on' he is our owner.

RIP
25-10-2010, 10:55 AM
The first thing we have to wake up to is that it's many years since Hibs actually had a Manager. Levein, Smith are managers. All we get is a temp coach/trainer.

No football club should ever have to suffer such a constant turnover of playing staff as Hibs have had the last 5 years. How many players have we fielded in that time? (Where's the stattos when we need them?)

It's the recruitment and squad-building strategy that's at fault and I think it's time for the guy who has responsibility for player sales, player purchases and player contracts to hand that responsibility back to the manager - within a budget agreed by the board.

Otherwise all we will continue to have at Hibs is a football coach trying to build a team with his hands tied behind his back

Keith_M
25-10-2010, 10:58 AM
I'm not talking about Calderwood you cretin. I'm talking about Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Mixu, and Yogi.

I make that six.

I'd give you four out of six, but I get your point. how much the failure of a manager was down to lack of backing from the board is, I suppose, down to conjecture.

Sir David Gray
25-10-2010, 11:36 PM
The first thing we have to wake up to is that it's many years since Hibs actually had a Manager. Levein, Smith are managers. All we get is a temp coach/trainer.

No football club should ever have to suffer such a constant turnover of playing staff as Hibs have had the last 5 years. How many players have we fielded in that time? (Where's the stattos when we need them?)

It's the recruitment and squad-building strategy that's at fault and I think it's time for the guy who has responsibility for player sales, player purchases and player contracts to hand that responsibility back to the manager - within a budget agreed by the board.

Otherwise all we will continue to have at Hibs is a football coach trying to build a team with his hands tied behind his back

Since October 2005, the following players have made a first team appearance for Hibs;

Zbigniew Malkowski
Gary Caldwell
Humphrey Rudge
Chris Hogg
David Murphy
Kevin Thomson
Ivan Sproule
Michael Stewart
Guillaume Beuzelin
Steven Fletcher
Garry O'Connor
Amadou Konte
Derek Riordan
Scott Brown
Stephen Glass
Dean Shiels
Gary Smith
Sam Morrow
Steven Whittaker
Jamie McCluskey
Kevin McDonald
Simon Brown
Chris Killen
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Abdessalam Benjelloun
Jay Shields
Sean Lynch
Antonio Murray
Ross Campbell
Rob Jones
Lewis Stevenson
Merouane Zemmama
Shelton Martis
Andrew McNeil
Kevin McCann
Thomas Sowunmi
Ross Chisholm
Damon Gray
Dermot McCaffrey
Yves Makalambay
Filipe Morais
Clayton Donaldson
Brian Kerr
Alan O'Brien
Thierry Gathuessi
Torben Joneleit
Darren McCormack
Mickael Antoine Curier
Patrick Noubissie
Paul Hanlon
Ian Murray
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Martin Canning
David van Zanten
Joe Keenan
Fabian Yantorno
Steven Thicot
Steve Pinau
David Grof
Sol Bamba
Jonatan Johansson
Grzegorz Szamotulski
Denes Rosa
Danny Galbraith
Kevin McBride
Patrick Cregg
David Wotherspoon
Anthony Stokes
Graham Stack
Kurtis Byrne
Liam Miller
Graeme Smith
Alan Gow
Michael Hart
Edwin de Graaf
David Stephens
Mark Brown
Francis Dickoh
Jonathan Grounds
Valdas Trakys

I make that 83 players who have played for the Hibs first team in the last five years.

That's an average of about 16 or 17 players a year, which is pretty much an entirely new squad every year for five years. :shocked:

hhibs
26-10-2010, 12:19 AM
RP could be earning three times that, with a lot less hassle.

He is also the most respected Chairman in the SPL - that is from other clubs praising him.

We need to realise this is a transitional period with the new manager.

How would you have picked the team after three days ?

Really ,Mr Petie would earn near £500,000 ,with a lot less hassle, I do not think so.
This board and this man in particular are paid way over their worth or value by any stretch of the imagination.Get a grip and look at his cost ,past and present as a percentage of the clubs turnover and. in relation to like for like posts in other non old firm SPL clubs.

N.B Have no problem on your comment on the new manager and it being a team in transition but Mr Petrie is hugely expensive and in my humble opinion a major problem at our beloved Hibees.

Cropley10
26-10-2010, 07:23 AM
Since October 2005, the following players have made a first team appearance for Hibs;

Zbigniew Malkowski
Gary Caldwell
Humphrey Rudge
Chris Hogg
David Murphy
Kevin Thomson
Ivan Sproule
Michael Stewart
Guillaume Beuzelin
Steven Fletcher
Garry O'Connor
Amadou Konte
Derek Riordan
Scott Brown
Stephen Glass
Dean Shiels
Gary Smith
Sam Morrow
Steven Whittaker
Jamie McCluskey
Kevin McDonald
Simon Brown
Chris Killen
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Abdessalam Benjelloun
Jay Shields
Sean Lynch
Antonio Murray
Ross Campbell
Rob Jones
Lewis Stevenson
Merouane Zemmama
Shelton Martis
Andrew McNeil
Kevin McCann
Thomas Sowunmi
Ross Chisholm
Damon Gray
Dermot McCaffrey
Yves Makalambay
Filipe Morais
Clayton Donaldson
Brian Kerr
Alan O'Brien
Thierry Gathuessi
Torben Joneleit
Darren McCormack
Mickael Antoine Curier
Patrick Noubissie
Paul Hanlon
Ian Murray
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Martin Canning
David van Zanten
Joe Keenan
Fabian Yantorno
Steven Thicot
Steve Pinau
David Grof
Sol Bamba
Jonatan Johansson
Grzegorz Szamotulski
Denes Rosa
Danny Galbraith
Kevin McBride
Patrick Cregg
David Wotherspoon
Anthony Stokes
Graham Stack
Kurtis Byrne
Liam Miller
Graeme Smith
Alan Gow
Michael Hart
Edwin de Graaf
David Stephens
Mark Brown
Francis Dickoh
Jonathan Grounds
Valdas Trakys

I make that 83 players who have played for the Hibs first team in the last five years.

That's an average of about 16 or 17 players a year, which is pretty much an entirely new squad every year for five years. :shocked:

So you can't say the manager hasn't been allowed to sign players then?

RIP
26-10-2010, 08:08 AM
5 managers and 83 players in five years IS THE PROBLEM.

What possible recipe for success is centred around a constantly revolving squad? How is there ever going to be a settled side? We need more or less the same starting 11 week in week out with cover for suspensions and injuries.

Someone at Hibs needs to be brought in to design a five-year strategy. Maybe this would not need to be a salaried position - it could just be a consultant. Maybe this man is Calderwood. But not without a major shift of responsibilities from the Chairman to the new Manager.

matty_f
26-10-2010, 08:17 AM
5 managers and 83 players in five years IS THE PROBLEM.

What possible recipe for success is centred around a constantly revolving squad? How is there ever going to be a settled side? We need more or less the same starting 11 week in week out with cover for suspensions and injuries.

Someone at Hibs needs to be brought in to design a five-year strategy. Maybe this would not need to be a salaried position - it could just be a consultant. Maybe this man is Calderwood. But not without a major shift of responsibilities from the Chairman to the new Manager.

To be fair,i doubt that sort of turnover was I'm anyone's plans. The turnover of players is a direct result of the number of managers we've had. Hopefully calderwood will stay longer than two seasons and we'll get the settled first eleven that we desperately need.

Sir David Gray
26-10-2010, 08:32 AM
So you can't say the manager hasn't been allowed to sign players then?

No, I don't suppose you can.

About 20 of those players came up through the youth ranks at the club so that still means that we have signed about 60 players in the past five years, which is obviously more than 10 signings every year.

blackpoolhibs
26-10-2010, 08:43 AM
No, I don't suppose you can.

About 20 of those players came up through the youth ranks at the club so that still means that we have signed about 60 players in the past five years, which is obviously more than 10 signings every year.

What is this like compared to other clubs in the SPL?

Sir David Gray
26-10-2010, 08:48 AM
What is this like compared to other clubs in the SPL?

Since it took me about 2 hours to work it out for Hibs, I'll be back around midnight with this answer. :greengrin

Seriously, I will go away and work it all out and will post it up here when I've finished.

Clearly, too much time on my hands today. :wink:

blackpoolhibs
26-10-2010, 08:51 AM
Since it took me about 2 hours to work it out for Hibs, I'll be back around midnight with this answer. :greengrin

Seriously, I will go away and work it all out and will post it up here when I've finished.

Clearly, too much time on my hands today. :wink:

:greengrin

Brizo
26-10-2010, 08:54 AM
......his enigmatic message after the sale of Stokes. Words to the effect ' The supporters will soon come to realise that the sale of Anthony Stokes was correct and at the right time for the club.' In the absence of any meaningful strike force his words are a tad hollow.

Im guessing Rod was alluding to Stokes various "issues" and his disruptive influence in the dressing room. Also the fact that Stokes was adament that if he didnt get his move he'd effectively down tools. Obviously Rod couldnt come out in public with the actual facts but im reliably informed that the Board and management were pleased to get rid of someone whose negative behaviour out weighed his goals.

As for Rods managerial appointments the fans demanded Sauzee , Blobby came with a good cv from Killie , Mowbray delivered some of the most exciting fitba ive seen , Cup winning Collins Mixu and Yogi were all welcomed with great enthusiasm as Hibs heroes who were on the way up in the coaching world. I cant fault Rod on any of the appointments. Its easy after the event to criticise certain of them but tbh CCs the first one for a long time that hasnt got the majority of fans excited.

Hopefully that might work in CCs favour. The player turnover and lack of stability need to be addressed and in going for a downbeat more pragmatic character we might get that. However if that stability takes the form of Alex Miller style stability itll be interesting to see how the fans react. In the current fitba culture would / could Rod do a Dougie Cromb and keep a safe pair of hands in place in the face of irate fans and empty seats ?

Craig_in_Prague
26-10-2010, 09:17 AM
The managers have been backed as well as they could be, it's not Rods fault in the main, the managers have failed in getting the best out of what they've got, and the general standard of players coming in haven't really improved us all that much.
Wages to turnover as we know is at the levels we can't change much, unless we all want to live outwith the clubs means.

It's the managers that quite frankly haven't signed any exciting players.

Other than Deek, and Zouma when fit, we really have bog standard players at the club. This isn't Rods fault.

We are such a crappy, average team right now, that's is just depressing.

If CC can get us winning ugly for the rest of the season, that'll do just fine.

Avoid relegation, get rid of the dross (which is a lot), and re-shape the squad for the next season. We have literally no-one that excites the fans.

Cropley10
26-10-2010, 11:24 AM
The managers have been backed as well as they could be, it's not Rods fault in the main, the managers have failed in getting the best out of what they've got, and the general standard of players coming in haven't really improved us all that much.
Wages to turnover as we know is at the levels we can't change much, unless we all want to live outwith the clubs means.

It's the managers that quite frankly haven't signed any exciting players.

Other than Deek, and Zouma when fit, we really have bog standard players at the club. This isn't Rods fault.

We are such a crappy, average team right now, that's is just depressing.
If CC can get us winning ugly for the rest of the season, that'll do just fine.

Avoid relegation, get rid of the dross (which is a lot), and re-shape the squad for the next season. We have literally no-one that excites the fans.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys - my old man used to say...

Why is it we have had over 83 players come and go in 5 years? How is this not to do with the Board? We have almost no quality left in the team - no-one worth anything, the only constant through all this IS the Board FFS. It's not a question of who they recruited but how they did this and what they were allowed to do (and not allowed to do).

We seem to think we can sell quality players and replace them with no-bodies, this policy has, since TM, departed been a disaster. The last decent players we signed was under Mixu; Murray, Bamba and Deek. Stokes was here for a year, sold cheap and at the wrong end of the window and replaced with another journeymen (though I hope Duffy does well for us of course).

Why do Motherwell or United do better than us? Is it because the Manager, manages and gets to recruit the players? How do they find and motivate better players than us? Anyone who thinks we have the 3rd best squad in the SPL must be smoking something. We have an absolutely powder-puff midfield and one recognised, fit striker (Nish). :grr:

I'm sick of this 68% figure as well.... that includes ALL Hibs staff including the Board and as performances on the pitch deteriorate, so do attendances, so that ratio increases. We then say the Wages:Turnover is too high so we buy cheaper players

new malkyhib
26-10-2010, 08:38 PM
Pay peanuts, get monkeys - my old man used to say...

Why is it we have had over 83 players come and go in 5 years? How is this not to do with the Board? We have almost no quality left in the team - no-one worth anything, the only constant through all this IS the Board FFS. It's not a question of who they recruited but how they did this and what they were allowed to do (and not allowed to do).

We seem to think we can sell quality players and replace them with no-bodies, this policy has, since TM, departed been a disaster. The last decent players we signed was under Mixu; Murray, Bamba and Deek. Stokes was here for a year, sold cheap and at the wrong end of the window and replaced with another journeymen (though I hope Duffy does well for us of course).

Why do Motherwell or United do better than us? Is it because the Manager, manages and gets to recruit the players? How do they find and motivate better players than us? Anyone who thinks we have the 3rd best squad in the SPL must be smoking something. We have an absolutely powder-puff midfield and one recognised, fit striker (Nish). :grr:

I'm sick of this 68% figure as well.... that includes ALL Hibs staff including the Board and as performances on the pitch deteriorate, so do attendances, so that ratio increases. We then say the Wages:Turnover is too high so we buy cheaper players

:top marks

Kaiser1962
26-10-2010, 08:48 PM
Guys we paid money we could not afford under McLeish and ended up to our eyes in debt. What part of that dont people get?

Albion Hibs
26-10-2010, 08:58 PM
Pay peanuts, get monkeys - my old man used to say...

Why is it we have had over 83 players come and go in 5 years? How is this not to do with the Board? We have almost no quality left in the team - no-one worth anything, the only constant through all this IS the Board FFS. It's not a question of who they recruited but how they did this and what they were allowed to do (and not allowed to do).

We seem to think we can sell quality players and replace them with no-bodies, this policy has, since TM, departed been a disaster. The last decent players we signed was under Mixu; Murray, Bamba and Deek. Stokes was here for a year, sold cheap and at the wrong end of the window and replaced with another journeymen (though I hope Duffy does well for us of course).

Why do Motherwell or United do better than us? Is it because the Manager, manages and gets to recruit the players? How do they find and motivate better players than us? Anyone who thinks we have the 3rd best squad in the SPL must be smoking something. We have an absolutely powder-puff midfield and one recognised, fit striker (Nish). :grr:

I'm sick of this 68% figure as well.... that includes ALL Hibs staff including the Board and as performances on the pitch deteriorate, so do attendances, so that ratio increases. We then say the Wages:Turnover is too high so we buy cheaper players

I would not advocate going back to the days of paying players fortune / or sums that are effectively more than we can afford.

What happened to the days when managers used to improve players, take ordinary players and get them achieving something special?

To simple resort to paying big sums of money just so we dont get the so called "monkeys" is not were I want our club to be. Motherwell is a house of cards a team full of loan players built to travel a short journey - you dont build a club on that.

With regards to ratios, perhaps if more people turned up to games then this ratio would be lower and our club would be more inclined to spend money on the field.

stantonhibby
26-10-2010, 09:44 PM
I would not advocate going back to the days of paying players fortune / or sums that are effectively more than we can afford.

What happened to the days when managers used to improve players, take ordinary players and get them achieving something special?

To simple resort to paying big sums of money just so we dont get the so called "monkeys" is not were I want our club to be. Motherwell is a house of cards a team full of loan players built to travel a short journey - you dont build a club on that.

With regards to ratios, perhaps if more people turned up to games then this ratio would be lower and our club would be more inclined to spend money on the field.

:top marks

PaulSmith
26-10-2010, 09:51 PM
Since October 2005, the following players have made a first team appearance for Hibs;

Zbigniew Malkowski
Gary Caldwell
Humphrey Rudge
Chris Hogg
David Murphy
Kevin Thomson
Ivan Sproule
Michael Stewart
Guillaume Beuzelin
Steven Fletcher
Garry O'Connor
Amadou Konte
Derek Riordan
Scott Brown
Stephen Glass
Dean Shiels
Gary Smith
Sam Morrow
Steven Whittaker
Jamie McCluskey
Kevin McDonald
Simon Brown
Chris Killen
Oumar Konde
Paul Dalglish
Abdessalam Benjelloun
Jay Shields
Sean Lynch
Antonio Murray
Ross Campbell
Rob Jones
Lewis Stevenson
Merouane Zemmama
Shelton Martis
Andrew McNeil
Kevin McCann
Thomas Sowunmi
Ross Chisholm
Damon Gray
Dermot McCaffrey
Yves Makalambay
Filipe Morais
Clayton Donaldson
Brian Kerr
Alan O'Brien
Thierry Gathuessi
Torben Joneleit
Darren McCormack
Mickael Antoine Curier
Patrick Noubissie
Paul Hanlon
Ian Murray
John Rankin
Colin Nish
Abderraouf Zarabi
Martin Canning
David van Zanten
Joe Keenan
Fabian Yantorno
Steven Thicot
Steve Pinau
David Grof
Sol Bamba
Jonatan Johansson
Grzegorz Szamotulski
Denes Rosa
Danny Galbraith
Kevin McBride
Patrick Cregg
David Wotherspoon
Anthony Stokes
Graham Stack
Kurtis Byrne
Liam Miller
Graeme Smith
Alan Gow
Michael Hart
Edwin de Graaf
David Stephens
Mark Brown
Francis Dickoh
Jonathan Grounds
Valdas Trakys

I make that 83 players who have played for the Hibs first team in the last five years.

That's an average of about 16 or 17 players a year, which is pretty much an entirely new squad every year for five years. :shocked:

How does this compare to other SPL clubs?

Cropley10
27-10-2010, 11:15 AM
I would not advocate going back to the days of paying players fortune / or sums that are effectively more than we can afford.

What happened to the days when managers used to improve players, take ordinary players and get them achieving something special?

To simple resort to paying big sums of money just so we dont get the so called "monkeys" is not were I want our club to be. Motherwell is a house of cards a team full of loan players built to travel a short journey - you dont build a club on that.

With regards to ratios, perhaps if more people turned up to games then this ratio would be lower and our club would be more inclined to spend money on the field.

You cite Motherwell... had a good run in Europe, riding high in the League, beat United and are through to a Semi Final. So, they have loan players 'built to travel a short journey' - what's the difference between a 'loan player' and one whose contract expires in May? We don't even have quality players on short term contracts do we?

I'm not advocating getting into debt, I'm saying we've got the players we've got as consequence of hiring inexperienced, perhaps even naive managers, who bought quantity not quality. This may or may not have something to do with RP.

As for income I buy two ST a year - go to every home game, spend money in the shop and at the ground. The reason more people don't turn up is due to the quality of the team on the park and the inevitably results.

Ray_
27-10-2010, 11:31 AM
Guys we paid money we could not afford under McLeish and ended up to our eyes in debt. What part of that dont people get?

I don't think you are quite getting it!

The money was already severely haemorrhaging from the club from Duffy’s days, with huge amounts spent on transfer fees and wages for players that weren’t SPL standard.

It wasn’t the Sauzee’s & Latapy’s that brought us to the brink, it was the fact we had a 50-60 player squad at the time & that most of them were absolutely hopeless, with little or no sell on value.

greenlex
27-10-2010, 11:42 AM
I don't think you are quite getting it!

The money was already severely haemorrhaging from the club from Duffy’s days, with huge amounts spent on transfer fees and wages for players that weren’t SPL standard.

It wasn’t the Sauzee’s & Latapy’s that brought us to the brink, it was the fact we had a 50-60 player squad at the time & that most of them were absolutely hopeless, with little or no, sale on value.
It was the case that we had far far too many players but are you saying we were living within our means paying McLieshs team what we were paying them in relative terns to our income back then? Yes our TVmoney was much better but IIRC our gates were no better than now and that income woud be much less comparable to what the playing budget was in tidats terns. In short we were living outwith our means. Chasing that dream. It was unsustainable even more so when the TV deal went tits up. We cannot go back there.

Cropley10
27-10-2010, 11:52 AM
It was the case that we had far far too many players but are you saying we were living within our means paying McLieshs team what we were paying them in relative terns to our income back then? Yes our TVmoney was much better but IIRC our gates were no better than now and that income woud be much less comparable to what the playing budget was in tidats terns. In short we were living outwith our means. Chasing that dream. It was unsustainable even more so when the TV deal went tits up. We cannot go back there.

Is anyone seriously suggesting we do though? What we have now is quantity over quality and no cohesion. We played 4 CH's and 4 CM's on Saturday, that won't happen again I'm sure but we have to improve the overall standard of our first team somehow. Surely we all recognise that there are at least 4 even 5 players who are not of the required standard.

As someone has already said if you keep buying St Mirren, Inverness or Killie players where does that take us?

Ray_
27-10-2010, 11:53 AM
It was the case that we had far far too many players but are you saying we were living within our means paying McLieshs team what we were paying them in relative terns to our income back then? Yes our TVmoney was much better but IIRC our gates were no better than now and that income woud be much less comparable to what the playing budget was in tidats terns. In short we were living outwith our means. Chasing that dream. It was unsustainable even more so when the TV deal went tits up. We cannot go back there.

Where on earth did I say that we were living within our means?

I mentioned that the fact we had 50-60 players, 80-90% of which were journeymen and that was far more influential in the build-up of the debt than signing players like Sauzee & Latapy.

WindyMiller
27-10-2010, 12:00 PM
Pay peanuts, get monkeys - my old man used to say...

Why is it we have had over 83 players come and go in 5 years? How is this not to do with the Board? We have almost no quality left in the team - no-one worth anything, the only constant through all this IS the Board FFS. It's not a question of who they recruited but how they did this and what they were allowed to do (and not allowed to do).

We seem to think we can sell quality players and replace them with no-bodies, this policy has, since TM, departed been a disaster. The last decent players we signed was under Mixu; Murray, Bamba and Deek. Stokes was here for a year, sold cheap and at the wrong end of the window and replaced with another journeymen (though I hope Duffy does well for us of course).

Why do Motherwell or United do better than us? Is it because the Manager, manages and gets to recruit the players? How do they find and motivate better players than us? Anyone who thinks we have the 3rd best squad in the SPL must be smoking something. We have an absolutely powder-puff midfield and one recognised, fit striker (Nish). :grr:

I'm sick of this 68% figure as well.... that includes ALL Hibs staff including the Board and as performances on the pitch deteriorate, so do attendances, so that ratio increases. We then say the Wages:Turnover is too high so we buy cheaper players

I think you'll find that most on here feel that RP signed Murray and Deeks.

Sudds_1
27-10-2010, 12:08 PM
Is anyone seriously suggesting we do though? What we have now is quantity over quality and no cohesion. We played 4 CH's and 4 CM's on Saturday, that won't happen again I'm sure but we have to improve the overall standard of our first team somehow. Surely we all recognise that there are at least 4 even 5 players who are not of the required standard.

As someone has already said if you keep buying St Mirren, Inverness or Killie players where does that take us?


I agree the sentiment.....but if the budget will only ALLOW that calibre of player, what else do you do? We're meant to have a youth development policy that's the envy of the SPL.....That was meant to cushion the effect of having to go outwith the club to buy in quality. Mowbray benefitted from that, but since then where have they all gone? A far as I can see all ther prospects are out on loans and doing well at lesser clubs around the country....

..meaning we have to buy in quality players to keep momentum going......oh wait.

BEEJ
27-10-2010, 12:12 PM
I think you'll find that most on here feel that RP signed Murray and Deeks.
And many feel that he was 'instrumental' in the signings of Rankin and Nish in the days / weeks following Mixu's arrival as Manager.

Albion Hibs
27-10-2010, 12:12 PM
You cite Motherwell... had a good run in Europe, riding high in the League, beat United and are through to a Semi Final. So, they have loan players 'built to travel a short journey' - what's the difference between a 'loan player' and one whose contract expires in May? We don't even have quality players on short term contracts do we?

I'm not advocating getting into debt, I'm saying we've got the players we've got as consequence of hiring inexperienced, perhaps even naive managers, who bought quantity not quality. This may or may not have something to do with RP.

As for income I buy two ST a year - go to every home game, spend money in the shop and at the ground. The reason more people don't turn up is due to the quality of the team on the park and the inevitably results.

The difference is that player belongs to the club i.e. a hibs player playing for Hibs. You are also missing the point, how can you possibly be building a team when CB is probably currently begging these other managers to let players stay beyond Jan, we wont have players walking out of the door then. I would not like to be sitting there thinking 3, 4, or 5 of our best players (perhaps hard to imagine) are not going to be here after Santa has visited.

Your comment about monkeys and peanuts would certainly not imply that you are not advocating a return.

Quantity V Quality if you think this is the case then this will be the first time we have had any depth in our team. For seasons gone by I can always remember being thin on the ground in terms of playing staff. We may have a CH issue i.e. two many but other than that, I dont really agree.

The reason people dont turn up one is a huge bone of contention with me, almost as much as when people say he "is not good enough to play for hibs". I will start by saying i think the game in general is massively overpriced, and more than understand the cost of having to take along 1, 2 or 3 must be frightening / comple. HOWEVER, that factor aside no one should need to be convinced to turn up to a game, you support or you dont. The fact that you say the play and the results need to get better for people is almost an old firm / glory hunter mentality.

For what its worth, I, like yourself and many others have seen worse hibs teams and performances.

WindyMiller
27-10-2010, 12:41 PM
And many feel that he was 'instrumental' in the signings of Rankin and Nish in the days / weeks following Mixu's arrival as Manager.

Somone posted a link to an interview ( on a Nish-bash thread I think) were Mixu stated that the reason we didn't sign Nish before he was cup-tied was because Mixu wanted to have a look at him first.

So RP sourced a player that was available whilst we were managerless?
Hardly trhe act of someone who doesn't want to spend or support the manager.

greenlex
27-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Where on earth did I say that we were living within our means?

I mentioned that the fact we had 50-60 players, 80-90% of which were journeymen and that was far more influential in the build-up of the debt than signing players like Sauzee & Latapy.
You weren't but you did seem to suggest that big signings on huge wages were not the problem. I only asked if you were suggesting we would have been living within our means with the Sauzees Latapys etc.

greenlex
27-10-2010, 12:48 PM
Is anyone seriously suggesting we do though? What we have now is quantity over quality and no cohesion. We played 4 CH's and 4 CM's on Saturday, that won't happen again I'm sure but we have to improve the overall standard of our first team somehow. Surely we all recognise that there are at least 4 even 5 players who are not of the required standard.

As someone has already said if you keep buying St Mirren, Inverness or Killie players where does that take us?
there are many who are advocating we stop buying the journeymen. Or players that are not hibs class whatever that is. We brought Stokes Miller from the Premiership. Deeks and Brown from Celtic. Allied to the Rankins and Nishs if the world from SPL teams with decent youngsters coming through should be able to be gelled into a reasonable team. It's the manager that seems to be the problem IMO. Just as a mater of interest who do you think we should be signing and from who?

where

Cropley10
27-10-2010, 01:22 PM
The difference is that player belongs to the club i.e. a hibs player playing for Hibs. You are also missing the point, how can you possibly be building a team when CB is probably currently begging these other managers to let players stay beyond Jan, we wont have players walking out of the door then. I would not like to be sitting there thinking 3, 4, or 5 of our best players (perhaps hard to imagine) are not going to be here after Santa has visited.

Your comment about monkeys and peanuts would certainly not imply that you are not advocating a return.

Quantity V Quality if you think this is the case then this will be the first time we have had any depth in our team. For seasons gone by I can always remember being thin on the ground in terms of playing staff. We may have a CH issue i.e. two many but other than that, I dont really agree.

The reason people dont turn up one is a huge bone of contention with me, almost as much as when people say he "is not good enough to play for hibs". I will start by saying i think the game in general is massively overpriced, and more than understand the cost of having to take along 1, 2 or 3 must be frightening / comple. HOWEVER, that factor aside no one should need to be convinced to turn up to a game, you support or you dont. The fact that you say the play and the results need to get better for people is almost an old firm / glory hunter mentality.

For what its worth, I, like yourself and many others have seen worse hibs teams and performances.

Do you know for a fact how many of Motherwell's players are on loan till Jan?

As I said and you fail to recognise - we've got 16 players out of contract in May. 16! They have no financial value whatsoever to Hibs after January, and then only minimal. There's almost no difference between a season long loan and a player who's contract expires at the end of the season.

The difference is Motherwell are at the business end of the Division, winning games and progressing in Cups. Those points won now will be useful if players do return in January.

You also mention depth in our squad. I think we have anything but - part of the problem is we don't have cover in key positions, full back for example, or up front? Who do we have that can change a game? Again its about less is more.

And as for your support question - that's what always gets thrown at us by the Big Team. Even when we were doing well we didn't get the crowds in - but football is expensive, times are tough but a lack of quality, flair even - keeps people away IMHO.

Cropley10
27-10-2010, 01:33 PM
there are many who are advocating we stop buying the journeymen. Or players that are not hibs class whatever that is. We brought Stokes Miller from the Premiership. Deeks and Brown from Celtic. Allied to the Rankins and Nishs if the world from SPL teams with decent youngsters coming through should be able to be gelled into a reasonable team. It's the manager that seems to be the problem IMO. Just as a mater of interest who do you think we should be signing and from who?

where

The point I'm trying to make Lex is that our signing policy and player churn is linked to the high turnover of managers, whether 'mutually consented' or not. This HAS to stop. CC needs time. Much more time than we've given the others, or we'll end up back here again in 12-18.

For me - this seems like rock bottom; very little talent, no-one really worth anything to another team, a side that lacks cohesion, spirit, fight and so on. The only way is UP.

If CC is given the opportunity to build his own team then my point is we need better quality players in some key positions.

We need to start to introduce our young players in, as understudies in key positions (FB, CF, CM). We need to develop players like Stephens, Hanlon, and Spoon. We need to hang on to Deek and get more from Miller, De Graff as well.

I think our signing policy and targets over the past 5 years has been shown to have flawed. We should learn from these mistakes. You ask for targets: well I'm not manager - but one or two decent, older players would be a start. Less bottom 6 SPL standard, or 16 Club journeymen.:wink:

Ray_
27-10-2010, 01:40 PM
You weren't but you did seem to suggest that big signings on huge wages were not the problem. I only asked if you were suggesting we would have been living within our means with the Sauzees Latapys etc.

Yes I have no doubt we could have lived within our means paying out the wages we did for Sauzee & Latapy.

1] If we didn't have around forty players who were drawing money that wasn't bringing the club value for that money, therefore building the debt up to 19M.

2] If the board had the relationship it had with the fans at the time of TM & not the fragmented relationship there was during McLeish's reign & therefore failing miserably to cash in on McLeish’s team, as Hibs were able to do during TM’s time.

Ray_
27-10-2010, 01:47 PM
The point I'm trying to make Lex is that our signing policy and player churn is linked to the high turnover of managers, whether 'mutually consented' or not. This HAS to stop. CC needs time. Much more time than we've given the others, or we'll end up back here again in 12-18.

For me - this seems like rock bottom; very little talent, no-one really worth anything to another team, a side that lacks cohesion, spirit, fight and so on. The only way is UP.

If CC is given the opportunity to build his own team then my point is we need better quality players in some key positions.

We need to start to introduce our young players in, as understudies in key positions (FB, CF, CM). We need to develop players like Stephens, Hanlon, and Spoon. We need to hang on to Deek and get more from Miller, De Graff as well.

I think our signing policy and targets over the past 5 years has been shown to have flawed. We should learn from these mistakes. You ask for targets: well I'm not manager - but one or two decent, older players would be a start. Less bottom 6 SPL standard, or 16 Club journeymen.:wink:

TM said it himself, he said we need to bring in some quality to take the club on, with this he never got backed & we have been in decline ever since, with far better players being sold & inferior replacements, giving us three years of gush football and deteriorating crowds and income.

Cropley10
27-10-2010, 01:54 PM
TM said it himself, he said we need to bring in some quality to take the club on, with this he never got backed & we have been in decline ever since, with far better players being sold & inferior replacements, giving us three years of gush football and deteriorating crowds and income.

The interesting thing though is there are two Clubs in Scotland who are both MASSIVELY in debt, living way beyond their means, 'affording' players we can't and won't. It's basically cheating, but it won't change.

We and to a degree Celtc are trying to live within our means - but it creates a false situation when others don't. I'm not advocating getting back into debt as that makes no sense, then as now.

But as I said - we MUST learn the lessons of the last 5 years and acknowledge we get what we pay for...

Ray_
27-10-2010, 01:59 PM
The interesting thing though is there are two Clubs in Scotland who are both MASSIVELY in debt, living way beyond their means, 'affording' players we can't and won't. It's basically cheating, but it won't change.

We and to a degree Celtc are trying to live within our means - but it creates a false situation when others don't. I'm not advocating getting back into debt as that makes no sense, then as now.

But as I said - we MUST learn the lessons of the last 5 years and acknowledge we get what we pay for...

I think that lesson should have been learned as far back as 1998, when we got relegated with a very large pool of guff players.

Antifa Hibs
27-10-2010, 02:26 PM
I would not advocate going back to the days of paying players fortune / or sums that are effectively more than we can afford.

What happened to the days when managers used to improve players, take ordinary players and get them achieving something special?

To simple resort to paying big sums of money just so we dont get the so called "monkeys" is not were I want our club to be. Motherwell is a house of cards a team full of loan players built to travel a short journey - you dont build a club on that.

With regards to ratios, perhaps if more people turned up to games then this ratio would be lower and our club would be more inclined to spend money on the field.

Don't think anyone is wanting us to be back in the red by £10m+. But the fact remains the vast majority of our players are *** pish, cost nout, paid peanuts. Lacking quality in almost every position and money needs to be spend, I'm a firm believer of you get what you pay for, off course you get the odd bargain and gem, Ivan, David Murphy etc, but these are few and far between.

The upshot is we have players from Killie, Falkirk, ICT that are in our squad, and if this is the quality of player we have (no quality) the likelyhood we will play as such. Wether that is down to the pish previous managers have signed or a severe lack of funds forcing management to sign these players, who knows, although i'd imagine it would be a bit off both.

Regarding your last point, true, but I won't grudge anyone not paying £400 a season or £22/£27 a match for that utter pesh, not only is the footballing side ****** but the whole matchday experience is gash aswell.

Phil D. Rolls
28-10-2010, 11:05 AM
Guys we paid money we could not afford under McLeish and ended up to our eyes in debt. What part of that dont people get?

The bit that says "take respponsibility for your club and use your past mistakes to guide your future".

Half the "speculate to accumulate" mob can't remember what they had for tea last night.

Cropley10
28-10-2010, 11:14 AM
The bit that says "take respponsibility for your club and use your past mistakes to guide your future".

Half the "speculate to accumulate" mob can't remember what they had for tea last night.

Nonsense. We have a team completely lacking in quality as a result of our hiring, firing and signing policies. Other teams do better than us with less, why is that?

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2010, 11:15 AM
The bit that says "take respponsibility for your club and use your past mistakes to guide your future".

.

:top marks We are losing money now, so are in effect speculating. It really is all about getting the right manager getting the right players to play the right system. Hopefully we have that now?

Cropley10
28-10-2010, 11:25 AM
:top marks We are losing money now, so are in effect speculating. It really is all about getting the right manager getting the right players to play the right system. Hopefully we have that now?

We are losing money not because we're speculating - we've not 'speculated' on anyone. We're losing money because not enough people turn up every week, which has something to do with results and performances.

I agree with your second sentence completely though.:greengrin

blackpoolhibs
28-10-2010, 11:38 AM
We are losing money not because we're speculating - we've not 'speculated' on anyone. We're losing money because not enough people turn up every week, which has something to do with results and performances.

I agree with your second sentence completely though.:greengrin

I remember when we had the SUABC campaign. Our crowds were low and the club targeted a 11k average if my memory serves me right. We have reached that over the last few seasons, probably beating that now. Yet we are still losing money, i'd say that was speculating?

I agree we need more fans through the door, the only way thats going to happen is if we start winning. :pray:

Sir David Gray
02-11-2010, 04:04 PM
What is this like compared to other clubs in the SPL?

After a week of intensive research on the internet, I finally got round to completing the stats for the rest of the current SPL sides and it as follows;

Aberdeen-77 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Celtic-88 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Dundee Utd-76 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Hamilton-110 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Hearts-83 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Inverness-64 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Kilmarnock-68 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Motherwell-72 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Rangers-81 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
St Johnstone-87 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
St Mirren-74 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.

All stats are to the best of my knowledge and is according to the website www.soccerbase.com

I hope it is of some interest because I gave up food for days on end, in order to get this done. :greengrin

blackpoolhibs
02-11-2010, 04:53 PM
After a week of intensive research on the internet, I finally got round to completing the stats for the rest of the current SPL sides and it as follows;

Aberdeen-77 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Celtic-88 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Dundee Utd-76 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Hamilton-110 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Hearts-83 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Inverness-64 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Kilmarnock-68 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Motherwell-72 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Rangers-81 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
St Johnstone-87 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
St Mirren-74 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.

All stats are to the best of my knowledge and is according to the website www.soccerbase.com

I hope it is of some interest because I gave up food for days on end, in order to get this done. :greengrin

So we are all changing players too much? :wink:

Kaiser1962
03-11-2010, 07:28 AM
Superb bit of work there FalkirkHibee, well done.

Managers should be easier........:greengrin


After a week of intensive research on the internet, I finally got round to completing the stats for the rest of the current SPL sides and it as follows;

Aberdeen-77 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Celtic-88 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Dundee Utd-76 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Hamilton-110 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Hearts-83 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Inverness-64 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Kilmarnock-68 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Motherwell-72 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
Rangers-81 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
St Johnstone-87 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.
St Mirren-74 players have made first team appearances since October 2005.

All stats are to the best of my knowledge and is according to the website www.soccerbase.com

I hope it is of some interest because I gave up food for days on end, in order to get this done. :greengrin

Green_one
03-11-2010, 09:45 AM
I note that Hibs have finally admitted (unless I missed it:greengrin) that season tickets have taken a tumble this year - from the 10/11000 of previous years to over 9000 this season.

This shows that they cannot expect people just to turn up if results and performance are poor. I admit that building in the summer is better but we need to start some of that in January if there are any opportunities. Some of our injuries will not be back (Zemamma) and some loans will be leaving. That means that unless we drag back some of the boys, we will have less resources than we have now. I would like to see them get at least a couple of significant loan players in. CC must have a wee list of possibles.