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View Full Version : The Way things are at Barcelona (Hibs related content)



The Green Goblin
20-10-2010, 01:34 AM
I was lucky enough to go to Camp Nou last week to watch Barcelona play Valencia. The friend I went with told me a few things about Barca and especially about Guardiola and how he had sorted Barca out when he first became the manager.

The first thing he did (my friend told me) was ditch the egos and the party guys. No matter who they were (Ronaldinho and others) if they didn`t have a team mentality and a professional attitude, then they were out - straight away. No discussion. Calderwood could do a lot worse than follow this example and have a wholesale clear out before rebuilding with a different set of values and perspectives.

Almost the entire current Barcelona team were brought through the youth system over several years and Guardiola oversaw that development personally, on a daily basis, as he still does, from the youngest teams up. Guys like Iniesta and Xavi, for example, two of the best players in the world, worked their way up and are humble, family men who see playing for the club as an honour and commit to it with their hearts and souls. They don`t do ads for sunglasses and see themselves as big shots. The fans know this and love them for it.

The club is owned by the supporters, who collectively make decisions on everything, represented by a body of around 120 or so fans who put a bit more financially into the club. When it was recently discovered that some numbers didn`t add up over the Ibrahimovich transfer, this body of fans began criminal proceedings on behalf of the club against the former president, who was responsible for taking the missing money. The people, the fans hold the power and say how the club should do things as a group.

The game itself was quite something; fans enjoyed cold beers in their seats, smoking was allowed in some sections and people of all ages, (young kids and very old people) including families, all went together. Many brought food and drinks with them. There was no trouble.

To enter the stadium, you used an electronic credit card season ticket which you scanned as you went through the turnstile. It took about 5 seconds and there were no queues.

The football was stunning and the crowd sang and shouted from before the game until some time after the final whistle. At times, the noise was deafening, even though supporters were sitting down. Supporters also respected each other throughout and even when things in the game got very heated, common sense prevailed.

The experience was a real eye-opener as to what going to a football match could, and should, be like. Hibs could do a lot worse than have a look at some of those things, go back to the drawing board on a number of things and aim to emulate them.

For anyone who is interested, I made a wee 2 minute video of my trip to the game. It`s here: http://www.vimeo.com/15918529

GG

Liam89
20-10-2010, 01:51 AM
Good read, thanks for sharing your experience with us! :wink: :top marks

Ray_
20-10-2010, 04:19 AM
I was lucky enough to go to Camp Nou last week to watch Barcelona play Valencia. The friend I went with told me a few things about Barca and especially about Guardiola and how he had sorted Barca out when he first became the manager.

The first thing he did (my friend told me) was ditch the egos and the party guys. No matter who they were (Ronaldinho and others) if they didn`t have a team mentality and a professional attitude, then they were out - straight away. No discussion. Calderwood could do a lot worse than follow this example and have a wholesale clear out before rebuilding with a different set of values and perspectives.

Almost the entire current Barcelona team were brought through the youth system over several years and Guardiola oversaw that development personally, on a daily basis, as he still does, from the youngest teams up. Guys like Iniesta and Xavi, for example, two of the best players in the world, worked their way up and are humble, family men who see playing for the club as an honour and commit to it with their hearts and souls. They don`t do ads for sunglasses and see themselves as big shots. The fans know this and love them for it.

The club is owned by the supporters, who collectively make decisions on everything, represented by a body of around 120 or so fans who put a bit more financially into the club. When it was recently discovered that some numbers didn`t add up over the Ibrahimovich transfer, this body of fans began criminal proceedings on behalf of the club against the former president, who was responsible for taking the missing money. The people, the fans hold the power and say how the club should do things as a group.

The game itself was quite something; fans enjoyed cold beers in their seats, smoking was allowed in some sections and people of all ages, (young kids and very old people) including families, all went together. Many brought food and drinks with them. There was no trouble.

To enter the stadium, you used an electronic credit card season ticket which you scanned as you went through the turnstile. It took about 5 seconds and there were no queues.

The football was stunning and the crowd sang and shouted from before the game until some time after the final whistle. At times, the noise was deafening, even though supporters were sitting down. Supporters also respected each other throughout and even when things in the game got very heated, common sense prevailed.

The experience was a real eye-opener as to what going to a football match could, and should, be like. Hibs could do a lot worse than have a look at some of those things, go back to the drawing board on a number of things and aim to emulate them.

For anyone who is interested, I made a wee 2 minute video of my trip to the game. It`s here: http://www.vimeo.com/15918529

GG

I'm glad you had such a experience, however relating it to a hibs model is fanciful at best.

It helps when you have youth players like Messi etc to fall back on and also the player budget Barca have, hibs do not have that luxury, therefore hopefully the new manager will mould the wayward element in to his way of thinking, if not, then the thing to do after that would be to bin them.

Also relating to the youths, not too long ago, we had the best bunch of youth players to break through together since the late sixties/early seventies, however, they barely had the chance to break puberty before being sold, therefore even the slightest comparison with Barca would be completely dead before it had a chance to get started.

The Green Goblin
20-10-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm glad you had such a experience, however relating it to a hibs model is fanciful at best.

It helps when you have youth players like Messi etc to fall back on and also the player budget Barca have, hibs do not have that luxury, therefore hopefully the new manager will mould the wayward element in to his way of thinking, if not, then the thing to do after that would be to bin them.

Also relating to the youths, not too long ago, we had the best bunch of youth players to break through together since the late sixties/early seventies, however, they barely had the chance to break puberty before being sold, therefore even the slightest comparison with Barca would be completely dead before it had a chance to get started.


All fair comment, however I would still argue the following points I made in my post:

1. Following Guardiola's example and immediately emptying the egos and the party boys from the club would be a good thing for Hibs.

2. I'm aware of the vast gulf between Hibs and Barcelona, but in fairness to myself, my post was arguing that we should "aim to emulate them" i.e in realistic ways at our particular level. Whatever the limitations of applying such ideas at Hibs, it would still bring about some kind of (badly needed) improvement in the right direction.

GG

ScottB
20-10-2010, 10:41 PM
I would also argue that despite Barca's much vaunted fan ownership system it still hasn't stopped them having pretty awful finances, having to take a loan to pay wages, players being sold Guardiola wanted to keep etc.

Manxhibs
20-10-2010, 11:02 PM
I think the points the original poster made are still valid despite the obvious gulf between the two clubs and we could do a lot worse than follow guardiolas management model. Getting rid of the trouble makers will stop the apparent dressing room unrest, which will then hopfully translate into better performances on the pitch. Historically we have concentrated on youth but recently we have slipped away from that, hopefully Calderwood will use the youngsters when they arrive back from their respective loans and hopefully they will shine. :flag::flag::flag:

Mikeystewart
21-10-2010, 02:50 AM
I'm glad you had such a experience, however relating it to a hibs model is fanciful at best.

It helps when you have youth players like Messi etc to fall back on and also the player budget Barca have, hibs do not have that luxury, therefore hopefully the new manager will mould the wayward element in to his way of thinking, if not, then the thing to do after that would be to bin them.

Also relating to the youths, not too long ago, we had the best bunch of youth players to break through together since the late sixties/early seventies, however, they barely had the chance to break puberty before being sold, therefore even the slightest comparison with Barca would be completely dead before it had a chance to get started.

I would be interested in seeing how much money was spent on the team that won the champions league.

Valdes puyol inesta xavi bushquetts ,messi bojan where all from the youth team. If i have got any of those names wrong please feel free to correct me.

Ray_
21-10-2010, 03:55 AM
I would be interested in seeing how much money was spent on the team that won the champions league.

Valdes puyol inesta xavi bushquetts ,messi bojan where all from the youth team. If i have got any of those names wrong please feel free to correct me.

The big difference is obviously when the players made the big time Barca was able to offer them the wages their status merited, Messi for an example is on 91k a week.

YehButNoBut
21-10-2010, 05:35 AM
The big difference is obviously when the players made the big time Barca was able to offer them the wages their status merited, Messi for an example is on 91k a week.

Messi would get more at Man City. is Toure not on around £200k per week, crazy :crazy:

Green_one
21-10-2010, 06:47 AM
The big difference is obviously when the players made the big time Barca was able to offer them the wages their status merited, Messi for an example is on 91k a week.

Its amazing that when you look at that figure the first reaction is - is that all?

JUST £4.5million a year. Plus all his sponsorship.

Rooney thinks he is worth almost 3 times that.

There is much to be admired about Barca but they get dragged into the madness too - Ibrahimovic's total cost was unbelievable. They got into a position it was better to transfer him cheaply just to get rid of the remaining salary commitments.

--------
21-10-2010, 12:29 PM
I think the points the original poster made are still valid despite the obvious gulf between the two clubs and we could do a lot worse than follow guardiolas management model. Getting rid of the trouble makers will stop the apparent dressing room unrest, which will then hopfully translate into better performances on the pitch. Historically we have concentrated on youth but recently we have slipped away from that, hopefully Calderwood will use the youngsters when they arrive back from their respective loans and hopefully they will shine.

:flag::flag::flag:



:agree: There are obviously huge differences between us and Barca in terms of standing and finance.

But the main points - to ditch the egos and bring on young talent are tatoally unarguable, IMO. Even if we DO have to accept offers for those players earlier than we would like, if the development program's working as it should more young players should be coming through to replace those who have moved on, and the club still benefits financially. This is a model which has worked very well elsewhere for many years now.

Strike a balance - develop young players at EM to form the backbone of the side, while looking for more experienced professionals outside ER to bring in to fill the side out.

What I can't see the point of is making problematic signings to fill gaps in the squad that have occurred because you've let young players on the brink of promotion to the first team go out on loan to other teams - even in one case this season, a team in the same division as ourselves. Can't work that one out at all.

Barney McGrew
21-10-2010, 01:03 PM
I would be interested in seeing how much money was spent on the team that won the champions league.

Valdes puyol inesta xavi bushquetts ,messi bojan where all from the youth team. If i have got any of those names wrong please feel free to correct me.


For all the good players Barca bring through their youth team, they still spend mental amounts of money on their squad.

40m on Villa, the same for Dani Alves, 21m for Mascherano, 14m for Keita, 14m for Milito and 15m for Abidal.

And that's not forgetting the 80m plus Samuel Eto'o they parted with for Ibrahimovic.

Ray_
21-10-2010, 01:37 PM
:agree: There are obviously huge differences between us and Barca in terms of standing and finance.

But the main points - to ditch the egos and bring on young talent are tatoally unarguable, IMO. Even if we DO have to accept offers for those players earlier than we would like, if the development program's working as it should more young players should be coming through to replace those who have moved on, and the club still benefits financially. This is a model which has worked very well elsewhere for many years now.

Strike a balance - develop young players at EM to form the backbone of the side, while looking for more experienced professionals outside ER to bring in to fill the side out.

What I can't see the point of is making problematic signings to fill gaps in the squad that have occurred because you've let young players on the brink of promotion to the first team go out on loan to other teams - even in one case this season, a team in the same division as ourselves. Can't work that one out at all.

For that to succeed, Hibs would have to buck the trend as they have never had any history which suggests that they can produce young players good enough to sustain a high enough quality of first team players, well not since the sixties anyway.

Even back then, in the late sixties and early seventies, which was the most productive time I've ever known for young players making the grade [and some], we still required a number of bought experienced players for us to kick on.

Take the TT's, Turnbull added Herriot, Edwards & Gordon, already there and previously purchased was Black, Schadler & Duncan and if we include the regular Sub, Hamilton, a player who came through the ranks, that means half the usual squad was bought. Another difference back then was we were able to hold on to the players for a lot longer than now.

Further more, we struggled to replace them when they moved on because the conveyor belt was a mere trickle after that & it has been, almost always, ever since then. Also the quantity and quality of youngsters coming through from Scottish football is a lot poorer than it was back then, therefore it makes the plan even more difficult for us to sustain.

If we go back the last 20-30 years, we have only had a handful of players who could compare with the golden generation & the recent young ones, although not too shabby, IMHO, still don't match up.

Don't get me wrong, this would be a perfect plan, but realistically, it would be going against what has happened over the last forty years for this to be a sustainable model.

leithsansiro
21-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Still think it's a decent shout to have a model to learn from. Loads of clubs should be looking to reward local boys who are brought up in the footballing tradition. Hibs, and many across the land, could learn from ditching the big-time Charlies who seem to prevail across Scottish football.

Eaststand
21-10-2010, 04:25 PM
All fair comment, however I would still argue the following points I made in my post:

1. Following Guardiola's example and immediately emptying the egos and the party boys from the club would be a good thing for Hibs.

2. I'm aware of the vast gulf between Hibs and Barcelona, but in fairness to myself, my post was arguing that we should "aim to emulate them" i.e in realistic ways at our particular level. Whatever the limitations of applying such ideas at Hibs, it would still bring about some kind of (badly needed) improvement in the right direction.

GG
Great post GG and FWIW I think your observations are very very relevant for our current squad of players.
Fitba is a team game on and off the park and no matter how good any individual player thinks they are - if they cant play the team game they've got to go.
I know we'll never be at Barcelona's level but I agree that CC should look closely at how Barca did things and learn from that

GGTTH

erin go bragh
21-10-2010, 04:37 PM
good post pal [remember doing a tour of the camp nou and in the trophy room was a fair sized picture of the famous five :thumbsup:]
GGTTH