Ian Murray In Foot In Mouth Scandal!

[broonie27]

Quoted from this (http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Failure-to-halt-slump-sees.6565118.jp#5646695)Scotsman piece .

"For some reason our home record really stared to grate on people" :taxi

[Speedy]

:confused:

[AgentDaleCooper]

Quoted from this (http://sport.scotsman.com/football/Failure-to-halt-slump-sees.6565118.jp#5646695)Scotsman piece .

"For some reason our home record really stared to grate on people" :taxi

curious...it's as though season ticket holders actually want to watch their team win games or something! :confused:

what a fickle bunch.

[cabbageandribs1875]

'JOHN Hughes was forced out of Hibernian yesterday' do some people think it was really 'mutual consent' ?

[The_Horde]

Some of the stuff in that article is very interesting. Mostly the fact that Ian Murray is apparently raging that Hughes is gone.

[cabbageandribs1875]

;2597749']Some of the stuff in that article is very interesting. Mostly the fact that Ian Murray is apparently raging that Hughes is gone.


especially after someone on here posted that yogi 'allegedly' told murray to **** off after the game at paisley, when murray was supposed to have intervened when yogi 'allegedly' told deeks to tell his agent to get him a transfer :confused: you just dont know who to believe nowadays :boo hoo:

[(((Fergus)))]

"A source close to Hughes revealed that the manager had been particularly upset to learn that several of his players had been out in an Edinburgh city centre nightclub on Saturday, hours after leaving the field to jeers from angry Hibs fans after the humbling defeat in Perth.

He is also believed to have been angered by senior players walking off the training ground without his coaching team's consent in recent weeks, and of one player refusing to sit on the substitutes' bench at Celtic Park when he was told he was not in the starting XI."

While some players may be voicing their shock and disappointment it's clear that others had no respect for him.

[H18sry]

Failure to halt slump sees John Hughes forced out at Hibs



Published Date: 05 October 2010 By COLIN LESLIEJOHN Hughes was forced out of Hibernian yesterday when the Easter Road board decided that a change of manager was needed to halt a dismal run of form that has yielded only four wins in the past 28 games

Hughes arrived at the club's East Mains training ground to be told his 15-month tenure was over. Directors had held a meeting on Sunday night to thrash out his future before facing supporters and took a final decision yesterday morning, hours before the club's AGM at Easter Road last night.

Hibs lost 2-0 to St Johnstone on Saturday, leaving them languishing in tenth spot in the SPL and without a win since opening day of the season. Hughes had hoped to be given more time to turn the club's fortunes around, but under growing pressure from supporters to wield the axe, the club announced they were parting company with the 45-year-old former club captain "by mutual consent".

Assistant Brian Rice has also departed, leaving reserve team coach Gareth Evans, goalkeeping coach Scott Thomson and youth coach Alistair Stevenson in temporary charge of the first team.

Hughes declined to comment to journalists last night, but in a statement issued by Hibs, he said: "I have relished every minute of my time at Hibernian, the club I have always supported and which will always have a special place in my heart. I am proud of what we achieved last season, and I wish the board, players and supporters every success."

As the search for a new manager started - with Jimmy Calderwood, Derek McInnes, Derek Adams, Michael O'Neill and former Hibs manager Tony Mowbray among the early contenders - details emerged that Hughes had grown frustrated in recent months at off-field indiscipline among a faction of his squad. A source close to Hughes revealed that the manager had been particularly upset to learn that several of his players had been out in an Edinburgh city centre nightclub on Saturday, hours after leaving the field to jeers from angry Hibs fans after the humbling defeat in Perth

He is also believed to have been angered by senior players walking off the training ground without his coaching team's consent in recent weeks, and of one player refusing to sit on the substitutes' bench at Celtic Park when he was told he was not in the starting XI. :confused:

In a turbulent final month Hughes was also forced to deny claims that there had been a punch-up in the Hibs dressing room immediately after their Co-operative Insurance Cup defeat to Kilmarnock, insisting there had only been raised voices. Club vice-captain Ian Murray admitted that there were rifts within the squad, but insisted Hughes commanded respect and had not "lost the dressing room".

Murray told The Scotsman: "There are guys who aren't playing who don't like the manager - it's as simple as that, but that happens at every club, and if you are playing you like him. It depends who you ask, some will say they didn't like him, some will say they did. But I don't think he lost the dressing room."

Murray also sympathised with Hughes' frustration at players going out to what he viewed as excess, especially after high-profile defeats like Saturday, but said it was impossible to order them to stay in. "It's hard for a manager because he can't track someone 24/7 so if they want to go out, they will go out," said the 29-year-old defender. "The only way to stop them going out is to drop them and we don't have a big enough squad to do that."

After opening the SPL season with a win at Motherwell, Hibs' form plummeted alarmingly, and without a win at Easter Road since 6 March, their home record came under intense scrutiny when his side let 1-0 leads to draw with Inverness and Hamilton in successive weeks last month.

But Murray believes a lot of the pressure was unwarranted and hopes to see a period of stability at the club after four managers in five years. "It's crazy because Mixu (Paatelainen] was only given about 18 months, John has been there 15 months," he said. "We are getting towards the Real Madrid situation where they change managers every year. It's just silly.

"For some reason our home record really stared to grate on people. But we never talked about it at all in the dressing room."

However, poor results came thick and fast for Hibs in the past month, and while they showed improved spirit in a 2-1 loss at Celtic Park, they were abject against St Johnstone, and the board decided that a change of manager was needed. Hughes' final record in all competitions reads: played 54, won 19, drawn 12, lost 23.

Chairman Rod Petrie explained: "John has been a hard-working and dedicated manager of Hibernian. As a former captain, and as a fan, he recognises that a fresh face and a new approach is the best option for the club at this time

[emmjayfox]

I wonder who the players are that have walked of the training ground and thought it was acceptable to go on the lash after yet another feeble gutless display. Lets hope the new manager empties them, and i dont care who they are.Total lack of respect for the club, manager and the paying customer.

[truehibernian]

It's funny, bevvy must be part of Graham Stack's rehabilitation programme as the only time I ever see him is in George Street establishments with drink in hand and a very silly flat cap. Perfect cure for a sore back right enough :greengrin As Nid says you can't bar the players going out but just goes to show that they really have no shame in defeat. Sadly it's like that all over football, not just Hibs. I disagree with what he says though - we do have a big enough squad to drop people. You just put in the young players and put some drunken noses out of joint. Worked for Sir Alex Ferguson after all.

[Septimus]

This all goes back to the player's revolt against JC. Time to get some of the young boys in give them time to settle and get rid of the partying element.

[Hibby D]

I wonder who the players are that have walked of the training ground and thought it was acceptable to go on the lash after yet another feeble gutless display. Lets hope the new manager empties them, and i dont care who they are.Total lack of respect for the club, manager and the paying customer.

I hope any new manager doesn't come in with pre-conceived ideas of who needs to be emptied. For one, we're far too thin on the ground already and secondly (and this is because I'm the eternal optimist) I want our new manager to be able turn this lot into a winning team. That will be a true mark of his talent and proof positive that at last we've found the right man for the job.

[Kaiser1962]

Anybody who dosent follow management instructions should be dropped, no matter who. But if he did that he would have got pelters. Clear out needed and attitude adjustmnt required.

[TowerHibs]

I wonder who the players are that have walked of the training ground and thought it was acceptable to go on the lash after yet another feeble gutless display. Lets hope the new manager empties them, and i dont care who they are.Total lack of respect for the club, manager and the paying customer.

Got to love some peoples attitudes to players to drinking! It's not as if it's before a game. Usually the first place I go if it's been a tough day at work, straight to pub. It's the British culture to have a bevy!

Its not EVER going to happen that after a defeat the players will go into their homes, phone off the hook, close curtains and stick on Schindlers List while drinking water and eating bread! But let's empty the lot of them!!!

Fans hurt after games, so do the players but to think in Britain that players are going to stay in and think about ending their life after a defeat is just nonsense! Actually had a nightout a few years back with the players after a derby, and the lot of them expressed how gutted they were they never got a result!

I'd be more concerned at players refusing to be on the bench, no matter what respect you have for the manager (even if he doesn't have a clue) you do as he asks. This is showing disrespect to the club and fans. If this is true, what is to say the said player is not needed after 2 mins due to injury. I think this and the players walking off training and refusing to be benches is totally unacceptable! Noone is bigger than the however just shows how shambolic things had been under yogi and he had to go

[Lucius Apuleius]

Got to love some peoples attitudes to players to drinking! It's not as if it's before a game. Usually the first place I go if it's been a tough day at work, straight to pub. It's the British culture to have a bevy!

Its not EVER going to happen that after a defeat the players will go into their homes, phone off the hook, close curtains and stick on Schindlers List while drinking water and eating bread! But let's empty the lot of them!!!

Fans hurt after games, so do the players but to think in Britain that players are going to stay in and think about ending their life after a defeat is just nonsense! Actually had a nightout a few years back with the players after a derby, and the lot of them expressed how gutted they were they never got a result!

I'd be more concerned at players refusing to be on the bench, no matter what respect you have for the manager (even if he doesn't have a clue) you do as he asks. This is showing disrespect to the club and fans. If this is true, what is to say the said player is not needed after 2 mins due to injury. I think this and the players walking off training and refusing to be benches is totally unacceptable! Noone is bigger than the however just shows how shambolic things had been under yogi and he had to go

And therein lies we as a club and country are going nowhere. They are professional athletes. Their bodies should be treated as such if they want to reach the top. Our lot obviously don't.

[grunt]

Interesting take on things in the Herald:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/hibernian/hughes-downfall-of-his-own-making-1.1059356

"His side had become, Hughes insisted, victims of their own success. In reality, they were victims of a flawed transfer policy, poor planning and the lack of a plan B."

[Andy74]

Intersting stuff about the players.

So does sacking a manager help that? Someone needs time here to get those players out and that can't always be done quickly.

A Michael oneil type will get eaten alive by the looks of things.

Craig brown looks a better option all the time!

[Ritchie]

Intersting stuff about the players.

So does sacking a manager help that? Someone needs time here to get those players out and that can't always be done quickly.

A Michael oneil type will get eaten alive by the looks of things.

Craig brown looks a better option all the time!

Craig brown is the only option IMO

[matty_f]

Craig brown is the only option IMO

Out of the whole world of football, the ONLY option is Craig Brown?:confused:

No offence, but I hope we cast our net much wider than Craig Brown. IMHO, he wouldn't leave Motherwell anyway.

[matty_f]

Failure to halt slump sees John Hughes forced out at Hibs



Published Date: 05 October 2010 By COLIN LESLIEJOHN Hughes was forced out of Hibernian yesterday when the Easter Road board decided that a change of manager was needed to halt a dismal run of form that has yielded only four wins in the past 28 games

Hughes arrived at the club's East Mains training ground to be told his 15-month tenure was over. Directors had held a meeting on Sunday night to thrash out his future before facing supporters and took a final decision yesterday morning, hours before the club's AGM at Easter Road last night.

Hibs lost 2-0 to St Johnstone on Saturday, leaving them languishing in tenth spot in the SPL and without a win since opening day of the season. Hughes had hoped to be given more time to turn the club's fortunes around, but under growing pressure from supporters to wield the axe, the club announced they were parting company with the 45-year-old former club captain "by mutual consent".

Assistant Brian Rice has also departed, leaving reserve team coach Gareth Evans, goalkeeping coach Scott Thomson and youth coach Alistair Stevenson in temporary charge of the first team.

Hughes declined to comment to journalists last night, but in a statement issued by Hibs, he said: "I have relished every minute of my time at Hibernian, the club I have always supported and which will always have a special place in my heart. I am proud of what we achieved last season, and I wish the board, players and supporters every success."

As the search for a new manager started - with Jimmy Calderwood, Derek McInnes, Derek Adams, Michael O'Neill and former Hibs manager Tony Mowbray among the early contenders - details emerged that Hughes had grown frustrated in recent months at off-field indiscipline among a faction of his squad. A source close to Hughes revealed that the manager had been particularly upset to learn that several of his players had been out in an Edinburgh city centre nightclub on Saturday, hours after leaving the field to jeers from angry Hibs fans after the humbling defeat in Perth

He is also believed to have been angered by senior players walking off the training ground without his coaching team's consent in recent weeks, and of one player refusing to sit on the substitutes' bench at Celtic Park when he was told he was not in the starting XI. :confused:

In a turbulent final month Hughes was also forced to deny claims that there had been a punch-up in the Hibs dressing room immediately after their Co-operative Insurance Cup defeat to Kilmarnock, insisting there had only been raised voices. Club vice-captain Ian Murray admitted that there were rifts within the squad, but insisted Hughes commanded respect and had not "lost the dressing room".

Murray told The Scotsman: "There are guys who aren't playing who don't like the manager - it's as simple as that, but that happens at every club, and if you are playing you like him. It depends who you ask, some will say they didn't like him, some will say they did. But I don't think he lost the dressing room."

Murray also sympathised with Hughes' frustration at players going out to what he viewed as excess, especially after high-profile defeats like Saturday, but said it was impossible to order them to stay in. "It's hard for a manager because he can't track someone 24/7 so if they want to go out, they will go out," said the 29-year-old defender. "The only way to stop them going out is to drop them and we don't have a big enough squad to do that."

After opening the SPL season with a win at Motherwell, Hibs' form plummeted alarmingly, and without a win at Easter Road since 6 March, their home record came under intense scrutiny when his side let 1-0 leads to draw with Inverness and Hamilton in successive weeks last month.

But Murray believes a lot of the pressure was unwarranted and hopes to see a period of stability at the club after four managers in five years. "It's crazy because Mixu (Paatelainen] was only given about 18 months, John has been there 15 months," he said. "We are getting towards the Real Madrid situation where they change managers every year. It's just silly.

"For some reason our home record really stared to grate on people. But we never talked about it at all in the dressing room."

However, poor results came thick and fast for Hibs in the past month, and while they showed improved spirit in a 2-1 loss at Celtic Park, they were abject against St Johnstone, and the board decided that a change of manager was needed. Hughes' final record in all competitions reads: played 54, won 19, drawn 12, lost 23.

Chairman Rod Petrie explained: "John has been a hard-working and dedicated manager of Hibernian. As a former captain, and as a fan, he recognises that a fresh face and a new approach is the best option for the club at this time

You know, when I read stories like this I have absolutely zero sympathy for the players getting booed on a matchday. Who do they think they are? They are treating the club, the management, and the fans with total contempt.

I am very glad a large chunk of this squad is out of contract by the end of the season.

[RickyS]

Interesting take on things in the Herald:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/hibernian/hughes-downfall-of-his-own-making-1.1059356

"His side had become, Hughes insisted, victims of their own success. In reality, they were victims of a flawed transfer policy, poor planning and the lack of a plan B."

have to say for a glasgow rag, that is an excellent article

[matty_f]

have to say for a glasgow rag, that is an excellent article

Just read it, and I agree - it's excellent.

You'll get outsiders bemoaning our board selling Stokes, but that was as much Yogi's decision as anyone else's, and if you see how many players Yogi has actually signed, it far exceeds that of any other Scottish team's manager, save maybe for Neil Lennon.

That article has been the best I've read on Yogi since he quit.:agree:

[sahib]

Interesting take on things in the Herald:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/hibernian/hughes-downfall-of-his-own-making-1.1059356

"His side had become, Hughes insisted, victims of their own success. In reality, they were victims of a flawed transfer policy, poor planning and the lack of a plan B."

That guy is not far wrong in his analysis.

[H18sry]

Hughes’ downfall of his own making
Richard Winton
5 Oct 2010
At the time, the response jarred.
John Hughes was enclosed amid the dimly-lit media room at McDiarmid Park, attempting to explain another afternoon of disappointment when he was eventually asked if he felt under pressure. “I’m really close with the chairman,” responded the Hibernian manager with his default defiance. “The chairman knows exactly what’s going on at this club and what needs done.”
On the wall, a television taunted him, the rolling news vultures picking out Hibs’ predicament as, upstairs, Rod Petrie awaited his manager for their usual debrief. The conversation was as convivial as could be expected given that the club had suffered a fifth defeat in seven outings, apparently leaving Hughes with little indication of a decision that was mooted in meetings on Sunday, then announced yesterday.
He should not, though, have been surprised.
Statistics can be warped, of course, but there is scant scope for any interpretation other than that Hibs were in an inexorable decline. One win in 10 matches this season – or four in their last 33 if you’d rather – is indicative of a team subsumed by their own despondency.
On Saturday, the 11 players who took the field in Perth carried a sense of resignation. They lacked ideas and appeared bereft of confidence, bickering as passes went astray and moves broke down. The arguments extended to the technical area, defender Michael Hart becoming embroiled in an ugly dispute with his manager that was no doubt was viewed as a sign of “character”.
Yet through it all, despite conceding his players “never put enough in it to win the game”, Hughes refused to make even one substitution as the game slipped away. The contrast with Derek McInnes, whose alterations swung the contest in St Johnstone’s favour, was instructive.
Had he run out of ideas? After all, his regular refrain regarding “hard work” and “the big stick” was clearly not solving the problem.
Or was the issue that when he looked over his shoulder at the bench he saw little inspiration? Graeme Smith, one of his “school of right good goalies”, was joined by three defenders (Paul Hanlon, David Stephens and Lewis Stevenson), two midfielders (Edwin de Graaf and Lewis Horner) and an unfit, unproven striker (Valdas Trakys).
It was a paucity entirely in keeping with a lack of balance in a bloated squad. Last season, a commanding centre-back and midfield enforcer were acknowledged as missing elements so why continue to collect goalkeepers? Why hoard left-sided defenders when cover was needed for an attack that barely stretched beyond the admittedly prolific Derek Riordan, Colin Nish and Anthony Stokes?
The sale of the latter was far from unforeseen yet a manager in thrall to the idea of building for the future had no real contingency plan to compensate for the welter of goals he brought to the team. The signing of Darryl Duffy – immediately injured after what some wags suggested was a lusty challenge from the manager – was a frantic response and entirely in keeping with Hughes’ ploy of recruiting those who served him at Falkirk. Stokes apart, none have thrived, while the majority of the under-19 side who won the double the season before last have been stunted by inactivity.
Still, as long as the striking trio were providing the 51 goals between them that allowed Hibs to finish fourth, such things were overlooked. But the subsequent Europa League exit raised dissent and the dismal start to the league campaign has sparked mutiny among supporters.
His side had become, Hughes insisted, victims of their own success. In reality, they were victims of a flawed transfer policy, poor planning and the lack of a plan B

[TowerHibs]

And therein lies we as a club and country are going nowhere. They are professional athletes. Their bodies should be treated as such if they want to reach the top. Our lot obviously don't.

I was in 3 sisters on Sunday and there was Scott brown and stevie Whittaker out drinking watching the game. Doesn't affect their performances for the biggest clubs in country, in fact I'm sure they are with Scotland just now! Throwing a wobbly, and wanting players emptied cause of having a drink after a game, is deluded stuff. There would not be any professional footballers going if this was the case. It's a culture thing! Don't hear anyone saying rugby players are not professional yet they are notorious drinkers? Is it because they keep the drinking to the rugby club and not in view of everyone in a rank nightclub.

As I say, it not the drinking thats the problem (handful of players in all countries don't drink) and the body is a temple thing is pathetic. The real problem is players walking off training and refusing to be benches. This has to be stamped out pronto, childish and big headed attitude. Look at the France squad during world cup. Everyone could see manager was clueless (like Hughes) but it is not the players job to put him n his place! Evra, anelka and co lost everyone's respect when they attempt to break the chain of command

[legends of 73]

While I'm not sorry that Hughes has left the club the players need to take a long hard look at themselves.

They are the ones who have got the manager his jotters with there inept performances and can't be arsed attitude even though the manager has helped in his own downfall.

Hopefully when the new guy comes in he bins the players who are just going through the motions. F@@k it have a clear out in January and spend some money for once and get this proud club that WE the supporters love back to their rightful place in Scottish football




The board need to make sure we appoint the right guy this time as changing a manager every 16 months is just not good enough

[Dinkydoo]

Got to love some peoples attitudes to players to drinking! It's not as if it's before a game. Usually the first place I go if it's been a tough day at work, straight to pub. It's the British culture to have a bevy!

Its not EVER going to happen that after a defeat the players will go into their homes, phone off the hook, close curtains and stick on Schindlers List while drinking water and eating bread! But let's empty the lot of them!!!

Fans hurt after games, so do the players but to think in Britain that players are going to stay in and think about ending their life after a defeat is just nonsense! Actually had a nightout a few years back with the players after a derby, and the lot of them expressed how gutted they were they never got a result!

I'd be more concerned at players refusing to be on the bench, no matter what respect you have for the manager (even if he doesn't have a clue) you do as he asks. This is showing disrespect to the club and fans. If this is true, what is to say the said player is not needed after 2 mins due to injury. I think this and the players walking off training and refusing to be benches is totally unacceptable! Noone is bigger than the however just shows how shambolic things had been under yogi and he had to go


What a load of bull.

These guys are supposed to be professional atheletes; nobody is saying that they are to stay in the house and not touch a drop of alcohol, but to go out on the lash after performances like recently shows total and utter disrespect for the club, fans and manager imo. To me, it shows that they simply don't give a ****.

Whats' wrong with staying in and having a couple of tins? Instead of going out, getting tanked up and ending up in a fight..........

Whoever these "players" are (not willing to sit on the bench, walking out of training, drinking themselves into oblivion on a saturday night) need to be emptied otherwise we as a club are going nowhere.

And the next manager will fail miserably as well.

[Bostonhibby]

It's funny, bevvy must be part of Graham Stack's rehabilitation programme as the only time I ever see him is in George Street establishments with drink in hand and a very silly flat cap. Perfect cure for a sore back right enough :greengrin As Nid says you can't bar the players going out but just goes to show that they really have no shame in defeat. Sadly it's like that all over football, not just Hibs. I disagree with what he says though - we do have a big enough squad to drop people. You just put in the young players and put some drunken noses out of joint. Worked for Sir Alex Ferguson after all.

:agree: we don't have much to lose by making the point, there is also the risk that you might send the message to the younger players that what the "experienced pros" do is right, in fact it plays a part in getting us to the mess we are in.

The risk with journeymen is twofold, either Hibs will be the biggest move they ever get so they think they have arrived and can do what they like, or they are in fact well on the way down but fancy the Edinburgh lifestyle.

Someones got to sort them out before it rubs off on the youngsters or it drives them out. I wonder if any of our party animals influenced McCormack or Grof? Might a good pro have been a better influence?

[TowerHibs]

have to say for a glasgow rag, that is an excellent article

Yep can't argue with any of it. The under 19 boys must feel gutted about 2 years of not playing football. To be fair, these guys could be ruined!!! With the likes of Motherwell, Aberdeen and st johnston bringing through their under 19s, our lot must be thinking what they done wrong. Christ even hearts have came up with 2 or 3

[Baldy Foghorn]

What a load of bull.

These guys are supposed to be professional atheletes; nobody is saying that they are to stay in the house and not touch a drop of alcohol, but to go out on the lash after performances like recently shows total and utter disrespect for the club, fans and manager imo. To me, it shows that they simply don't give a ****.

Whats' wrong with staying in and having a couple of tins? Instead of going out, getting tanked up and ending up in a fight..........

Whoever these "players" are (not willing to sit on the bench, walking out of training, drinking themselves into oblivion on a saturday night) need to be emptied otherwise we as a club are going nowhere.

And the next manager will fail miserably as well.

:agree::agree:

Got to say one of my biggest gripes after a poor display/loss, is seeing the players lording it up in George Street having a great old time.....Seems most of them do not care one jot for the Club.......

[Pretty Boy]

Got to love some peoples attitudes to players to drinking! It's not as if it's before a game. Usually the first place I go if it's been a tough day at work, straight to pub. It's the British culture to have a bevy!

Its not EVER going to happen that after a defeat the players will go into their homes, phone off the hook, close curtains and stick on Schindlers List while drinking water and eating bread! But let's empty the lot of them!!!

Fans hurt after games, so do the players but to think in Britain that players are going to stay in and think about ending their life after a defeat is just nonsense! Actually had a nightout a few years back with the players after a derby, and the lot of them expressed how gutted they were they never got a result!

I'd be more concerned at players refusing to be on the bench, no matter what respect you have for the manager (even if he doesn't have a clue) you do as he asks. This is showing disrespect to the club and fans. If this is true, what is to say the said player is not needed after 2 mins due to injury. I think this and the players walking off training and refusing to be benches is totally unacceptable! Noone is bigger than the however just shows how shambolic things had been under yogi and he had to go

What a load of nonsense.

It may well be the 'British culture' to enjoy a bevvy after a hard days work or a tough game but quite frankly it doesn't make it acceptable for professional athletes to be doing so. Maybe this 'British culture' is why half of them are blowing out their erses after 50 minutes of a games, the number of fags Colin Nish goes through is shocking for a football player.

This shrugging of the shoulders and 'boys will be boys' attitude of the fans is why we weill never progress as a football nation. I remember reading a great arcticle about Barcelona recently and the magazine followed them in the build up and aftermath of 'el classico' in Madrid. A team meeting the night before the game, a flight on the morning of the game, a light training and strectching session early afternoon, light lunch, sleep, a 15 minute short, sharp warm up, win the game and after the game? Wild parties? Celebration drinks? No, a quiet supper, back to the hotel and an early morning flight back to Barcelona. Why? Because as Xavi put it: 'We have won nothing yet, we will enjoy a drink the night the title is secured then we will focus our attentions on the World Cup.' That is how elite athletes should live their life, they are handsomely paid for a job most of us would love to do. I don't buy this 'they are entitile to a drink rubbish'. The odd drink is fine but going into town every other Saturday is just not on for professionals. It's time Scottish football and it's fans woke up to this fact. Barry Ferguson fell out with paul le Guen because he wasn't allowed to eat Monster Munch, is there another country in the world this would have happened? England maybe? John Collins was hounded out of Hibs by a player revolt because he wanted them to live decent lifestyles and train harder. Absolutely pathetic and it's time those who accepted this kind of thing took a long hard look at themselves because the result is clear to see: Footballing mediocrity.

[Hibercelona]

If we want a successful manager at the helm, then some players need to get their act together or bugger off.

Thats all i've got to say on the matter.

[Lucius Apuleius]

I was in 3 sisters on Sunday and there was Scott brown and stevie Whittaker out drinking watching the game. Doesn't affect their performances for the biggest clubs in country, in fact I'm sure they are with Scotland just now! Throwing a wobbly, and wanting players emptied cause of having a drink after a game, is deluded stuff. There would not be any professional footballers going if this was the case. It's a culture thing! Don't hear anyone saying rugby players are not professional yet they are notorious drinkers? Is it because they keep the drinking to the rugby club and not in view of everyone in a rank nightclub.

As I say, it not the drinking thats the problem (handful of players in all countries don't drink) and the body is a temple thing is pathetic. The real problem is players walking off training and refusing to be benches. This has to be stamped out pronto, childish and big headed attitude. Look at the France squad during world cup. Everyone could see manager was clueless (like Hughes) but it is not the players job to put him n his place! Evra, anelka and co lost everyone's respect when they attempt to break the chain of command

If they are what you consider top athletes at the height of their game then I think my point stands.

[Spike Mandela]

Both these articles indicate a rather worrying attitude and lack of direction and purpose within the ER dressing room. No matter how much Yogi banged on about things like this the playing staff obviously have their own ideas.

Yes, Yogi had his limitations as did Mixu but increasingly I feel they were hamstrung by a bunch of players who aren't in it to 'fight for the cause'.

The next manager, whoever he is, has his work cut out. Things need to be changed root and branch!

[Beefster]

Craig brown is the only option IMO

So when Hibs decided not to appoint a 70 year old and go for someone else, you'll be publicly announcing on here that the new manager is the wrong man?

Edit: Whoever Richard Winton from the Herald is, he knows his stuff and it's refreshing to read an article that goes beyond the usual cursory glance at a non-OF club.

[TowerHibs]

:agree::agree:

Got to say one of my biggest gripes after a poor display/loss, is seeing the players lording it up in George Street having a great old time.....Seems most of them do not care one jot for the Club.......

I'm in no way saying that I agree with it but this is never ever going to change! Players are always going to go out on the sauce so us moaning that they should emptied everytime they go out is just time consuming and boring! This has been going on for decades. To think a guy like Graham stack who has had more than 6 clubs in10 years is going to care about the club as much as you and I is wishful!

I admit when I see players of hibs and hearts out after a poor result I'm surprised, usually because I think how can they be bothered with the abuse they
might get! However, if the club allows them to go out then why do fans not? In a perfect world, after a defeat I would like a few senior lads come to a few bars and have a chat with the fans over a pint or two, discuss what went on. Least give us a players perspective on things

[Steve-O]

I was in 3 sisters on Sunday and there was Scott brown and stevie Whittaker out drinking watching the game. Doesn't affect their performances for the biggest clubs in country, in fact I'm sure they are with Scotland just now! Throwing a wobbly, and wanting players emptied cause of having a drink after a game, is deluded stuff. There would not be any professional footballers going if this was the case. It's a culture thing! Don't hear anyone saying rugby players are not professional yet they are notorious drinkers? Is it because they keep the drinking to the rugby club and not in view of everyone in a rank nightclub.

As I say, it not the drinking thats the problem (handful of players in all countries don't drink) and the body is a temple thing is pathetic. The real problem is players walking off training and refusing to be benches. This has to be stamped out pronto, childish and big headed attitude. Look at the France squad during world cup. Everyone could see manager was clueless (like Hughes) but it is not the players job to put him n his place! Evra, anelka and co lost everyone's respect when they attempt to break the chain of command

Oh aye Brown and Whittaker have come on leaps and bounds since leaving Hibs haven't they?! :rolleyes:

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Failure to halt slump sees John Hughes forced out at Hibs

He is also believed to have been angered by senior players walking off the training ground without his coaching team's consent in recent weeks, and of one player refusing to sit on the substitutes' bench at Celtic Park when he was told he was not in the starting XI. :confused:



Anyone know who refused to sit on the bench vs Celtic. Totally agree with the poster who said that its difficult to have sympathy for players getting booed when they carryon like this.

Team for that game is

• 31 Mark Brown
• 02 Hart (Stephens 80)
• 03 Grounds
• 14 Dickoh yellow card
• 20 Hanlon
• 08 De Graaf (Danny Galbraith 80)
• 11 Rankin (Trakys 86)
• 17 McBride
• 24 David Wotherspoon
• 33 Miller
• 10 Riordan
Substitutes
• 21 Smith,
• 04 Hogg,
• 15 Thicot,
• 25 Stephens,
• 16 Stevenson,
• 22 Danny Galbraith,
• 23 Trakys

[keep the faith]

Anyone know who refused to sit on the bench vs Celtic. Totally agree with the poster who said that its difficult to have sympathy for players getting booed when they carryon like this.

Team for that game is

• 31 Mark Brown
• 02 Hart (Stephens 80)
• 03 Grounds
• 14 Dickoh yellow card
• 20 Hanlon
• 08 De Graaf (Danny Galbraith 80)
• 11 Rankin (Trakys 86)
• 17 McBride
• 24 David Wotherspoon
• 33 Miller
• 10 Riordan
Substitutes
• 21 Smith,
• 04 Hogg,
• 15 Thicot,
• 25 Stephens,
• 16 Stevenson,
• 22 Danny Galbraith,
• 23 Trakys

Think it was one of the Killie fighting pair.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Anyone know who refused to sit on the bench vs Celtic. Totally agree with the poster who said that its difficult to have sympathy for players getting booed when they carryon like this.

Team for that game is

• 31 Mark Brown
• 02 Hart (Stephens 80)
• 03 Grounds
• 14 Dickoh yellow card
• 20 Hanlon
• 08 De Graaf (Danny Galbraith 80)
• 11 Rankin (Trakys 86)
• 17 McBride
• 24 David Wotherspoon
• 33 Miller
• 10 Riordan
Substitutes
• 21 Smith,
• 04 Hogg,
• 15 Thicot,
• 25 Stephens,
• 16 Stevenson,
• 22 Danny Galbraith,
• 23 Trakys

It was Nish.

[Phil MaGlass]

His side had become, Hughes insisted, victims of their own success. In reality, they were victims of a flawed transfer policy, poor planning and the lack of a plan B.

Its what most on here had been saying for around a year, but what do we know about fitba were in the 95% arent we?

[matty_f]

Both these articles indicate a rather worrying attitude and lack of direction and purpose within the ER dressing room. No matter how much Yogi banged on about things like this the playing staff obviously have their own ideas.

Yes, Yogi had his limitations as did Mixu but increasingly I feel they were hamstrung by a bunch of players who aren't in it to 'fight for the cause'.

The next manager, whoever he is, has his work cut out. Things need to be changed root and branch!

Perhaps part of the issue is that Yogi couldn't get everyone to buy into his vision for the club (in the same way that Collins couldn't).

A football manager should be a leader and be inspirational, for all Yogi came across as very inspirational at times, if his audience (i.e. the players) weren't on board with him then he's wasting his time.

The key to a successful team is getting everyone engaged with what you are doing, make them feel part of it and responsible for it. Once you have that, the players start to take accountability and responsibility for themselves and each other, and they start to raise the bar as much as the manager does.

The fact that there were so many stories coming out of the dressing room suggests that Yogi had that with some players, but was completely at odds with many others.

[Hiber-nation]

Think it was one of the Killie fighting pair.

And then they both start against Saints? Something within the club really is rotten then.

[Beefster]

It was Nish.

If Riordan can get fined for talking about the pitch, Nish shouldn't be paid for about a month for that.

[TowerHibs]

Oh aye Brown and Whittaker have come on leaps and bounds since leaving Hibs haven't they?! :rolleyes:

Would say Whittaker has yes! Brown is captain of Celtic and plays for Scotland (although not the same style of player he was at hibs)

I know this culture and acceptance of drink is ruining the country in sporting terms as well as more important issues. This is an education thing though, not a football thing. I am mid 20's and have been going out since 16/17 along with guys who play football professionally. My younger brother is 18 and goes out with his pals some of which are footballers. I know 7 or 8 young lads at hibs and hearts who go out all the time!

It's a problem that's going to take a lot longer to solve than simply Craig brown coming in and getting rid of a few players

[Baldy Foghorn]

If Riordan can get fined for talking about the pitch, Nish shouldn't be paid for about a month for that.

There is a story behind it in defence of Nish, which kind of makes a mockery of what happened in the dressing room that day......

[TowerHibs]

Perhaps part of the issue is that Yogi couldn't get everyone to buy into his vision for the club (in the same way that Collins couldn't).

A football manager should be a leader and be inspirational, for all Yogi came across as very inspirational at times, if his audience (i.e. the players) weren't on board with him then he's wasting his time.

The key to a successful team is getting everyone engaged with what you are doing, make them feel part of it and responsible for it. Once you have that, the players start to take accountability and responsibility for themselves and each other, and they start to raise the bar as much as the manager does.

The fact that there were so many stories coming out of the dressing room
suggests that Yogi had that with some players, but was completely at odds with many others.

Agree with all that

[Pretty Boy]

There is a story behind it in defence of Nish, which kind of makes a mockery of what happened in the dressing room that day......

:agree:

Nish is certainly not the villian if the story i heard is true.

[J-C]

This has been one of the main problems in recent times at ER, a drinking do what we want culture. I'm sure it's only a few players so all you need is those emptied, at least we know Deeks wasn't there as he's barred from all nightclubs. :greengrin

I've heard Ian Murray had Yogi by the throat on the team bus returning from an away match, also that Bamba had a huge barney with hin just recently, it's alsp well known Deek didn't get on too well with him.

I'm sure the players have been well warned not to go blabbing their mouths off to the press about anything negative, hopefully whoever comes in gets the boards approval to get rid of any players they feel are a disruptive influence and bring in players who want to be here, or maybe it was all Yogi's fault anyway.:confused:

[Phil MaGlass]

What a load of nonsense.

It may well be the 'British culture' to enjoy a bevvy after a hard days work or a tough game but quite frankly it doesn't make it acceptable for professional athletes to be doing so. Maybe this 'British culture' is why half of them are blowing out their erses after 50 minutes of a games, the number of fags Colin Nish goes through is shocking for a football player.

This shrugging of the shoulders and 'boys will be boys' attitude of the fans is why we weill never progress as a football nation. I remember reading a great arcticle about Barcelona recently and the magazine followed them in the build up and aftermath of 'el classico' in Madrid. A team meeting the night before the game, a flight on the morning of the game, a light training and strectching session early afternoon, light lunch, sleep, a 15 minute short, sharp warm up, win the game and after the game? Wild parties? Celebration drinks? No, a quiet supper, back to the hotel and an early morning flight back to Barcelona. Why? Because as Xavi put it: 'We have won nothing yet, we will enjoy a drink the night the title is secured then we will focus our attentions on the World Cup.' That is how elite athletes should live their life, they are handsomely paid for a job most of us would love to do. I don't buy this 'they are entitile to a drink rubbish'. The odd drink is fine but going into town every other Saturday is just not on for professionals. It's time Scottish football and it's fans woke up to this fact. Barry Ferguson fell out with paul le Guen because he wasn't allowed to eat Monster Munch, is there another country in the world this would have happened? England maybe? John Collins was hounded out of Hibs by a player revolt because he wanted them to live decent lifestyles and train harder. Absolutely pathetic and it's time those who accepted this kind of thing took a long hard look at themselves because the result is clear to see: Footballing mediocrity.

well said, this attitude of its alright for players to go out for a drink is one of the reasons Scottish players are regularly in fights,trouble, unfit and cant compete even with smaller countries like Lithuania, the attitude has to change,our own players couldnt hack JC,s fitness regime cos they were wimps, suffering from small hangovers or unwilling to work for what they were being paid handsomely for.
In this day and age no Scottish club no matter how big the player is should have to put up with players who wish to go out drinking.
"The guys deserve a drink" does not wash in this day and age of so called professionalism.

[GreenPJ]

This has been one of the main problems in recent times at ER, a drinking do what we want culture. I'm sure it's only a few players so all you need is those emptied, at least we know Deeks wasn't there as he's barred from all nightclubs. :greengrin

I've heard Ian Murray had Yogi by the throat on the team bus returning from an away match, also that Bamba had a huge barney with hin just recently, it's alsp well known Deek didn't get on too well with him.

I'm sure the players have been well warned not to go blabbing their mouths off to the press about anything negative, hopefully whoever comes in gets the boards approval to get rid of any players they feel are a disruptive influence and bring in players who want to be here, or maybe it was all Yogi's fault anyway.:confused:

Two things - one Yogi would have eaten Ian for breakfast, secondly if this were true something formal would have been done against Murray.

[FitbaFolkKen]

The arguments extended to the technical area, defender Michael Hart becoming embroiled in an ugly dispute with his manager that was no doubt was viewed as a sign of “character”.

That bit from the article sums it up for me, everything painted as a positive.

The article could have been written by reading a thread on hibs net.....;) however i agree with it all.

[J-C]

Two things - one Yogi would have eaten Ian for breakfast, secondly if this were true something formal would have been done against Murray.

You can still grab someone by the throat and not get beaten up, specially on a bus where there are people to stop it happening, funny how Murray suddenly got a mysterious injury and hasn't been seen for a few weeks eh!

[smurf]

Are the clubs directors not on the team bus?

[RoslinInstHibby]

You can still grab someone by the throat and not get beaten up, specially on a bus where there are people to stop it happening, funny how Murray suddenly got a mysterious injury and hasn't been seen for a few weeks eh!

Ian Has defo been off sick/injured, and wasn't even at east mains yesterday due to ill health.....

[J-C]

Are the clubs directors not on the team bus?


Dunno, my source is a very good one,( works at E Mains ) he's always been bang on when it comes to these things.

[jonny]

Craig brown is the only option IMO

Oh my word Ritchie - please don't tell me your serious.

Nevio Scala? Alan Pardew? Chris Coleman? Alan Curbishley? Gary Megson? Joe Kinnear? Paul Ince? Paul Jewell? Gianfranco Zola? Giunluca Vialli?

OK, some of those suggestions are a bit fantisical but they are all available.

wee Craigy Broon would be well down my pecking order of choices, no doubt he's done a decent job at Motherwell and he'd probably steady the ship but IMO lets go against the grain and get someone that will excite the fans rather than appease them.

[--------]

Think it was one of the Killie fighting pair.



According to Hughes, there WAS no fighting at Kilmarnock.

So there was no "Killie Fighting Two". Who are we to believe?

Interesting thread this. We appear to want a squad of dedicated, hard-working professionals who'll give the young developing players a good example in terms of training and lifestyle. Prima donnas need not apply? Moral superiority rules.

So why does wee John Rankin get such pelters? That's exactly the sort of person and player he is. You'll find him training in Airdrie Sports Centre after hours. One Big Mac a year. Chris Hogg? Another model professional who gets dog's abuse on these forums. Maybe they aren't good enough for Hibs? Maybe they're exactly the sort of guys we want around if we're REALLY serious about developing a "conveyor belt" of talented, dedicated professional players at East Mains?

Hibs are not at this point of time a big enough club to attract world stars. We'll either have moderate players who work hard, or more skillful players with question-marks against them. It's the manager's job to weld them into a team.

The squad at present has been almost entirely assembled by Hughes and Paatelainen under the chairmanship of Rod Petrie. Supposing the players ARE the bunch of useless wasters they're alleged to be? Whose fault is it that they're at ER?

As fans we need to sort out our ideas. Are Hibs working for the future, developing young players and maybe accepting less now so that we can have more later on? Or do we want everything NOW, yesterday already, even?

It seems to me that we pay lip-service to the idea of youth development, then fill the squad with Bosman signings from Europe and England, with players who can play, OK, but whose professionalism is open to question and whose fitness is in doubt. Why else would we have young McCann, Booth, Moyes, and Byrne out on loan - all doing well - while signing guys like Grounds and Trakys on loan or short-term contracts?

Until 6 weeks ago I was firmly of the opinion that the club should give Hughes at least until Christmas to turn things around. Since then I have become convinced that he simply didn't have the personal resources to do so. More than that, that the person he is was actually making things worse.

Maybe there ARE players who need to be punted - I'd be totally gob-smacked if there aren't. But how many of them go back more than the last three years? Chris Hogg, Ian Murray, Derek Riordan? Any others, unless I'm mistaken, are youngsters - former U-19 and U-21 players whose growth has been stunted by lack of matches during the tenures of the last 2 managers who have signed an awful lot of moderate players between them.

Even then, I still think we have the players to be doing better than we have been.

The "Herald" article seems to me to be closer to the mark than the one in the "Record" (no surprise there, then). I don't think any statement from the club or the players will be anything other than damage-control material right now. IMO we have serious problems at Hibs.

[lucky]

The most worrying thing for me in the Scotsman's article is that players walked of the training pitch and 1 refused to be a sub. Just what the **** is going on at ER? How have Hibs descended into this farce. Clearly Hughes did not command respect. But questions must be asked of the board and the players. Its probably the most depressing story about Hibs since Mercer tried to buy us.

[blackpoolhibs]

If Ian Murray ever gets the job as manager of Hibs, this can interview can be brought back as a reason to berate him. He is already talking crap, we will call this No 1 gaff from our future manager.

[greenlex]

Most of our first team squad are out of contract at the end of the season. This seems to me the single best thing Hughes has managed in his tenure. The new guy whoever he is could do worse than bin them and not renew contracts fior each and every one of them. Start with a blank canvas and spend our playing budget on players with the right attitude as well as ability. Maybe just maybe the board realise this and released Hughes early enough to let the new guy time to asses what he has. Onwards and upwards.

[cabbageandribs1875]

You can still grab someone by the throat and not get beaten up, specially on a bus where there are people to stop it happening, funny how Murray suddenly got a mysterious injury and hasn't been seen for a few weeks eh!

ian murray will be out for at least another few weeks(iirc) hip injury i think

[matty_f]

The most worrying thing for me in the Scotsman's article is that players walked of the training pitch and 1 refused to be a sub. Just what the **** is going on at ER? How have Hibs descended into this farce. Clearly Hughes did not command respect. But questions must be asked of the board and the players. Its probably the most depressing story about Hibs since Mercer tried to buy us.

Sure I heard Nish walked off the pitch, never mind the training ground, at the Blackpool game (IIRC).

Farcical situation to find ourselves in. I would be pishing myself at these stories if it was the Yams.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sure I heard Nish walked off the pitch, never mind the training ground, at the Blackpool game (IIRC).

Farcical situation to find ourselves in. I would be pishing myself at these stories if it was the Yams.

Carlisle game i think.

[matty_f]

Carlisle game i think.

Yep, that's right cheers.:thumbsup:

It's funny how some managers can get players to run through walls for them (not literally!), while others can't even get them to stay on the pitch!

Yogi has been sorely let down by some of his squad. The quotes from Murray and the reporter's account of things really show the players in a bad light.

That's not to say that there's not two sides to this, as I've said already, these issues are not evident where a manager has engaged his squad and has them bought into his vision.

[blackpoolhibs]

Yep, that's right cheers.:thumbsup:

It's funny how some managers can get players to run through walls for them (not literally!), while others can't even get them to stay on the pitch!

Yogi has been sorely let down by some of his squad. The quotes from Murray and the reporter's account of things really show the players in a bad light.

That's not to say that there's not two sides to this, as I've said already, these issues are not evident where a manager has engaged his squad and has them bought into his vision.

We never get the truth, and have to make our own minds up with snippets of information we get from sources. My own opinion is Hughes had a vision, he may have had that vision but was fighting a losing battle with quite a few of the senior players not buying into that vision.

Hughes obviously had his faults, but if everyone is not pulling in the same direction, then that vision is destined to fail. I do wonder if a team on our budget can have a vision these days, once you have anyone who rises above mediocrity, he's sold. And your vision has to start again.

[--------]

There is a story behind it in defence of Nish, which kind of makes a mockery of what happened in the dressing room that day......


:agree:

Nish is certainly not the villian if the story i heard is true.


In regard to the question of why Colin Nish wasn't on the bench at Parkhead, I'm quite sure he wasn't the guilty party.

:agree:

[Sir David Gray]

There is clearly something seriously wrong with the attitudes of some, if not most, of the players at Easter Road at the moment and the culture within the club is also clearly rotten to the core.

If there were players walking off the training field without permission, players who refused to go on the bench for a match and players who were out on the town a few hours after yet another dismal defeat then I hope all those responsible are identified and shipped out as soon as possible because I don't want those types of people at Hibs.

[Callum_62]

id imagine it was Bamba at parkhead

[matty_f]

We never get the truth, and have to make our own minds up with snippets of information we get from sources. My own opinion is Hughes had a vision, he may have had that vision but was fighting a losing battle with quite a few of the senior players not buying into that vision.

Hughes obviously had his faults, but if everyone is not pulling in the same direction, then that vision is destined to fail. I do wonder if a team on our budget can have a vision these days, once you have anyone who rises above mediocrity, he's sold. And your vision has to start again.

I think we can have a vision these days. You only need to look at smaller clubs around the country who punch above their weight to realise that when players are bought into what the manager wants, they get results.

Stoke are a good example, as were Bolton under Allerdice. He never got the players at Newcastle to buy into what he wanted and so he failed, he's at Blackburn and appears to have the players onside there, and they're performing at about the level they should be.

Motherwell or Dundee Utd are good examples in Scotland.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think we can have a vision these days. You only need to look at smaller clubs around the country who punch above their weight to realise that when players are bought into what the manager wants, they get results.

Stoke are a good example, as were Bolton under Allerdice. He never got the players at Newcastle to buy into what he wanted and so he failed, he's at Blackburn and appears to have the players onside there, and they're performing at about the level they should be.

Motherwell or Dundee Utd are good examples in Scotland.

You are probably right Matty, I'm just disillusioned with football at the minute. Any vision has to have everyone pulling in the right direction, and thats clearly not the case at easter road. The new man has a huge job in front of him, as its not just a case of playing two wide men and Riordan up front.

[silverhibee]

Are the clubs directors not on the team bus?

No.

[matty_f]

You are probably right Matty, I'm just disillusioned with football at the minute. Any vision has to have everyone pulling in the right direction, and thats clearly not the case at easter road. The new man has a huge job in front of him, as its not just a case of playing two wide men and Riordan up front.

You're spot on - it is a massive job.

That said, it isn't that difficult to get a group of people onside. A good manager will be able to do that after one or two meetings with his team, and certainly after a couple of meetings on a one to one basis.

Any players not onside after that should be managed out the door, or at least managed to the extent that they are not able to become a negative influence on the rest of the team.

[shamo9]

I was in 3 sisters on Sunday and there was Scott brown and stevie Whittaker out drinking watching the game. Doesn't affect their performances for the biggest clubs in country, in fact I'm sure they are with Scotland just now! Throwing a wobbly, and wanting players emptied cause of having a drink after a game, is deluded stuff. There would not be any professional footballers going if this was the case. It's a culture thing! Don't hear anyone saying rugby players are not professional yet they are notorious drinkers? Is it because they keep the drinking to the rugby club and not in view of everyone in a rank nightclub.

As I say, it not the drinking thats the problem (handful of players in all countries don't drink) and the body is a temple thing is pathetic. The real problem is players walking off training and refusing to be benches. This has to be stamped out pronto, childish and big headed attitude. Look at the France squad during world cup. Everyone could see manager was clueless (like Hughes) but it is not the players job to put him n his place! Evra, anelka and co lost everyone's respect when they attempt to break the chain of command

The fact that in Scotland we hold these sorts of players as the pinnacle of our countries footballing excellence is exactly the problem. If I was a footballer who was technically limited, representing every Scottish born player, I'd do my damnedest to compensate for that in other areas.

Imagine how much better Nish and Riordan would be if they went to the gym every day, ate a balanced diet. Why people feel this notion of giving 100 percent to better yourself somehow impeaches on the individuals' human rights is something I'll never understand. Why settle for mediocrity?

It's not a difficult, abtract concept here. The more work you put in, the more reward you get out of it.

[blackpoolhibs]

You're spot on - it is a massive job.

That said, it isn't that difficult to get a group of people onside. A good manager will be able to do that after one or two meetings with his team, and certainly after a couple of meetings on a one to one basis.

Any players not onside after that should be managed out the door, or at least managed to the extent that they are not able to become a negative influence on the rest of the team.

:agree: And thats why i think the new man has to be an outsider, someone with no ready made ideas on who is who, someone without an opinion good or bad on the players. He needs to come in, have a clean slate but take no ****, and get rid of anyone who wont buy into his way, or steps out of line straight away.

[stubru59]

Following our defeat to Hamilton last season, Hughes commented after the game that he knew the players attitude to the game was all wrong whilst listening to them on the team bus.

This was exactly the same game in which 10 minutes after a drubbing, players were seen emerging from the dressing-room laughing and joking.

Hughes knew the problems. He just didn't have the wherewithal to sort it.

The fact is, kicking arse's, and asking those getting kicked to bust a gut for you, is no mean feat.

[silverhibee]

The most worrying thing for me in the Scotsman's article is that players walked of the training pitch and 1 refused to be a sub. Just what the **** is going on at ER? How have Hibs descended into this farce. Clearly Hughes did not command respect. But questions must be asked of the board and the players. Its probably the most depressing story about Hibs since Mercer tried to buy us.

And yet the two players involved here walked straight back in to the team for the St Johnstone game, who is to blame for that, not the players, the manager should have stuck to his guns and kept the two players out the team.
Yogi allowed things to happen at Hibs that were unreal,he was the boss, the man in charge of Hibs, but allows players to walk of at training, turn up late, fighting at EMs, refuse to go on the bench etc
Yogi should have fined or dropped players, but he didn't, worst culprit was Stokes, he treated Hibs like a door mat, but the manager never done anything about it, he just laughed and joked about it.
Was the manager feared to raise these issues with RP or SL, surely they would have backed him up and disciplined the players, or maybe they would reliase that Yogi wasn't up to it.

[matty_f]

Following our defeat to Hamilton last season, Hughes commented after the game that he knew the players attitude to the game was all wrong whilst listening to them on the team bus.

This was exactly the same game in which 10 minutes after a drubbing, players were seen emerging from the dressing-room laughing and joking.

Hughes knew the problems. He just didn't have the wherewithal to sort it.

The fact is, kicking arse's, and asking those getting kicked to bust a gut for you, is no mean feat.

I think the problem was kicking arse was the main tool in Yogi's locker. It got to the point where he was at odds with a lot of the squad, and usually when a relationship has deteriorated to the point where bollocking someone for being bad is all you've got, then it's too late to change the situation.

If you get it right at the start, there will rarely be a need to boot *****.

What a manager needs to do is communicate clearly what he wants to do, how he wants to do it, then get input from his team so that everyone is (or at least feels like they are) involved. Right away you get buy in and commitment.

From there you lay down what will happen to those that demonstrate unacceptable behaviours, and you make life difficult for those that want to do that. Ostracise them from the group, from training, send them on loan - whatever, but you take your core group who are bought in, and you make life as good as you possibly can for them.

You then have two camps, both manageable but in very different way, and you leave yourself with one group giving you the culture that you want, and the other diminishes as they either change, or leave.

From there, your new players come in, see the successful and motivated group as the norm, and they mirror that behaviour. Before you know it, you've changed the club!

Simples!:greengrin

[silverhibee]

:agree: And thats why i think the new man has to be an outsider, someone with no ready made ideas on who is who, someone without an opinion good or bad on the players. He needs to come in, have a clean slate but take no ****, and get rid of anyone who wont buy into his way, or steps out of line straight away.

Agree.

[--------]

I think the problem was kicking arse was the main tool in Yogi's locker. It got to the point where he was at odds with a lot of the squad, and usually when a relationship has deteriorated to the point where bollocking someone for being bad is all you've got, then it's too late to change the situation.

If you get it right at the start, there will rarely be a need to boot *****.

What a manager needs to do is communicate clearly what he wants to do, how he wants to do it, then get input from his team so that everyone is (or at least feels like they are) involved. Right away you get buy in and commitment.

From there you lay down what will happen to those that demonstrate unacceptable behaviours, and you make life difficult for those that want to do that. Ostracise them from the group, from training, send them on loan - whatever, but you take your core group who are bought in, and you make life as good as you possibly can for them.

You then have two camps, both manageable but in very different way, and you leave yourself with one group giving you the culture that you want, and the other diminishes as they either change, or leave.

From there, your new players come in, see the successful and motivated group as the norm, and they mirror that behaviour. Before you know it, you've changed the club!

Simples!:greengrin


Is this your first move in applying for the job, matty? :cool2:

[ScottB]

The fact that in Scotland we hold these sorts of players as the pinnacle of our countries footballing excellence is exactly the problem. If I was a footballer who was technically limited, representing every Scottish born player, I'd do my damnedest to compensate for that in other areas.

Imagine how much better Nish and Riordan would be if they went to the gym every day, ate a balanced diet and avoided recreational drugs. Why people feel this notion of giving 100 percent to better yourself somehow impeaches on the individuals' human rights is something I'll never understand. Why settle for mediocrity?

It's not a difficult, abtract concept here. The more work you put in, the more reward you get out of it.

Very much so.

Many top players are teetotal, at least during the season. Remember Tottenham last year and Redknapp going mental cause they had a secret Christmas party?

Sorry, but this 'ach we all like a wee bevy n that' attitude is a blight on Scottish society. These are professional footballers!! They are paid large sums of money to play football, being drunk / hungover all the damn time is pathetic. To say that we all like a drink sometimes is an irrelavance, most of us aren't paid to be in top physical condition.

Anyone who walks out of training, throws the toys out the pram or would rather spend their days boozing and chatting up skanks on George St needs emptied and pronto.

The players have had far too much power at Easter Road for far too long now. Time to lay down the law.

[matty_f]

Is this your first move in applying for the job, matty? :cool2:

:greengrin I get called enough names already without subjecting myself to the abuse that comes with being a Hibs fan in charge of Hibs!

[Peevemor]

I think the problem was kicking arse was the main tool in Yogi's locker. It got to the point where he was at odds with a lot of the squad, and usually when a relationship has deteriorated to the point where bollocking someone for being bad is all you've got, then it's too late to change the situation.

:agree:

[--------]

:greengrin I get called enough names already without subjecting myself to the abuse that comes with being a Hibs fan in charge of Hibs!


Going by your avatar, and the last incumbent's record, you're almost over-qualified...

"Bollocks Spouter Supreme". :devil:

[rubber mal]

Would say Whittaker has yes! Brown is captain of Celtic and plays for Scotland (although not the same style of player he was at hibs)

I know this culture and acceptance of drink is ruining the country in sporting terms as well as more important issues. This is an education thing though, not a football thing. I am mid 20's and have been going out since 16/17 along with guys who play football professionally. My younger brother is 18 and goes out with his pals some of which are footballers. I know 7 or 8 young lads at hibs and hearts who go out all the time!

It's a problem that's going to take a lot longer to solve than simply Craig brown coming in and getting rid of a few players

Can't be bothered getting involved in the debate, but is Whittaker not teetotal?

[Wembley67]

:agree: And thats why i think the new man has to be an outsider, someone with no ready made ideas on who is who, someone without an opinion good or bad on the players. He needs to come in, have a clean slate but take no ****, and get rid of anyone who wont buy into his way, or steps out of line straight away.

So someone from down south would fit the bill nicely :agree: Dunno who mind.

[--------]

So someone from down south would fit the bill nicely :agree: Dunno who mind.


There's a "lifelong Raith Rovers supporter" looking for gainful employment these days.

He's pretty scary. :wink:

[Speedway]

Intersting stuff about the players.

So does sacking a manager help that? Someone needs time here to get those players out and that can't always be done quickly.

A Michael oneil type will get eaten alive by the looks of things.

Craig brown looks a better option all the time!

What if the manager was given time despite being the guy who brought those players IN?


If Riordan can get fined for talking about the pitch, Nish shouldn't be paid for about a month for that.

I'm not sure Nish was the problem and I'm not sure that he refused to sit on the bench.

[J-C]

I think the problem was kicking arse was the main tool in Yogi's locker. It got to the point where he was at odds with a lot of the squad, and usually when a relationship has deteriorated to the point where bollocking someone for being bad is all you've got, then it's too late to change the situation.

If you get it right at the start, there will rarely be a need to boot *****.

What a manager needs to do is communicate clearly what he wants to do, how he wants to do it, then get input from his team so that everyone is (or at least feels like they are) involved. Right away you get buy in and commitment.

From there you lay down what will happen to those that demonstrate unacceptable behaviours, and you make life difficult for those that want to do that. Ostracise them from the group, from training, send them on loan - whatever, but you take your core group who are bought in, and you make life as good as you possibly can for them.

You then have two camps, both manageable but in very different way, and you leave yourself with one group giving you the culture that you want, and the other diminishes as they either change, or leave.

From there, your new players come in, see the successful and motivated group as the norm, and they mirror that behaviour. Before you know it, you've changed the club!

Simples!:greengrin

Agree here, from what I've heard Yogi turned into a bit of a bully boy, berating players all the time, eventually pissing them off so much that they lost all respect for him. As you said, fines, being dropped, training with the youth can make the guilty players think about things a bit more but if you allow them to do whatever they wish and still put them into the first team week in/week out, then they think they can do whatever they wish.

[gringojoe]

[QUOTE=Mikey_S;2597887]Anyone know who refused to sit on the bench vs Celtic. Totally agree with the poster who said that its difficult to have sympathy for players getting booed when they carryon like this.

Nish, walked out of training on Friday saying he was injured, Yogi picked a team based on this. Nish turns up Saturday says he is now fit, Yogi says teams picked you can sit on bench as you said you were unfit. Nish 'If I'm not fit to play I'm not fit to sit on bench'

[matty_f]

[QUOTE=Mikey_S;2597887]Anyone know who refused to sit on the bench vs Celtic. Totally agree with the poster who said that its difficult to have sympathy for players getting booed when they carryon like this.

Nish, walked out of training on Friday saying he was injured, Yogi picked a team based on this. Nish turns up Saturday says he is now fit, Yogi says teams picked you can sit on bench as you said you were unfit. Nish 'If I'm not fit to play I'm not fit to sit on bench'

IMHO, that's out of order from Nish in that case, if it's a good account of what happened.

I absolutely despair at times. When you're about to play Celtc at Darkheid, you need everyone to do their bit to have a chance of coming away with anything. That sort of pish just puts a spoiler on everything.

Seriously, if I was the manager of a club where a player pulled that kind of nonsense, he would never play for the club again. I'd put laddies in before him, whatever, but he'd never kick a ball in earnest for me again. Disgraceful.

[Geo_1875]

The problem as far as I'm concerned is twofold, and they're both caused by the amount of money thrown at players. Give a 20 year old Brit 2-3 grand a week and what is he going to do? He's going to piss it up against a wall. It's what 20 year olds do. Also because nobody stays at Easter Road very long, because the moneys better elsewhere, we don't have senior pros who can control a dressing room. Who was the last Hibs player who stayed 8-10 years?

[down-the-slope]

[QUOTE=gringojoe;2598399]

IMHO, that's out of order from Nish in that case, if it's a good account of what happened.

I absolutely despair at times. When you're about to play Celtc at Darkheid, you need everyone to do their bit to have a chance of coming away with anything. That sort of pish just puts a spoiler on everything.

Seriously, if I was the manager of a club where a player pulled that kind of nonsense, he would never play for the club again. I'd put laddies in before him, whatever, but he'd never kick a ball in earnest for me again. Disgraceful.

Matty...problem with that is as you can't explain fully WHY you would be doing that then fans / press would crucify you for not using best players..and as the manager being judged on results which in this case would be less likely...you would not last long.

Not that you would beleive it from some of the drivel posted on here but a modern managers job is shockingly difficult

[--------]

[QUOTE=Mikey_S;2597887]Anyone know who refused to sit on the bench vs Celtic. Totally agree with the poster who said that its difficult to have sympathy for players getting booed when they carryon like this.

Nish, walked out of training on Friday saying he was injured, Yogi picked a team based on this. Nish turns up Saturday says he is now fit, Yogi says teams picked you can sit on bench as you said you were unfit. Nish 'If I'm not fit to play I'm not fit to sit on bench'



From what I heard there was a bit more to it than that.

However.... :rolleyes:

[matty_f]

Matty...problem with that is as you can't explain fully WHY you would be doing that then fans / press would crucify you for not using best players..and as the manager being judged on results which in this case would be less likely...you would not last long.

Not that you would beleive it from some of the drivel posted on here but a modern managers job is shockingly difficult

Why couldn't I explain exactly what happened?

I would explain it, and I'd let the rest of the squad know as well, so that they can see that there's a direct link between their behaviour and how well they're treated. It sends a clear message, and by being honest and up front with the press it leaves everyone in no doubt who the bad guy in the situation is.

I agree that a football manager's job is extremely difficult (otherwise we'd all be doing it, right?:greengrin), however there are aspects that don't need to be difficult if they're handled right.

[mikethehibee69]

I wonder who the players are that have walked of the training ground and thought it was acceptable to go on the lash after yet another feeble gutless display. Lets hope the new manager empties them, and i dont care who they are.Total lack of respect for the club, manager and the paying customer.
:top marksNote to all u Hibs players u r not bigger than the club, if u think u r then go as at the moment u r a disgrace to the shirt, now show us u care about Hibs and start bloody trying:grr:

[BEEJ]

Hughes knew the problems. He just didn't have the wherewithal to sort it.

The fact is, kicking arse's, and asking those getting kicked to bust a gut for you, is no mean feat.
He was too often behaving like 'one of the guys' to earn the respect of the players.


Yogi allowed things to happen at Hibs that were unreal,he was the boss, the man in charge of Hibs, but allows players to walk of at training, turn up late, fighting at EMs, refuse to go on the bench etc
Yogi should have fined or dropped players, but he didn't, worst culprit was Stokes, he treated Hibs like a door mat, but the manager never done anything about it, he just laughed and joked about it.
One of the most effective weapons at his disposal in this regard was dropping a player from the team. Not easy if he is regarded as a key player; but often the benefits outweigh the short-term disadvantages. However, Yogi continued to name these characters in his starting 11.


I think the problem was kicking arse was the main tool in Yogi's locker.
:agree: But the other tool in his locker was rampant favouritism. I doubt that there is any another combination of management traits that will cause the respect in which you are held to diminish more rapidly.

[Stevie Reid]

Rankin seems to contradict much of what Ian Murray says here: -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/9064414.stm


John Rankin says he and his Hibernian team-mates were left "gutted" by the departure of manager John Hughes.

Hughes left the club on Monday after a poor string of results running into last season and with Hibs sitting tenth in the Scottish Premier League.
"The manager was very popular in the dressing-room," said Rankin.
"There were no divisions at all. Everybody was behind the gaffer 100% and the players have to take a huge part of the blame for the results."
Rankin believes luck has not been with Hibs this season as they recorded just one win in their first seven league games.
But it was a 2-0 defeat away to St Johnstone that eventually led to Hughes' departure and the midfielder said: "We were poor on Saturday and we have to look at ourselves. We have let ourselves down."

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
If you make two failures, usually the person who makes them doesn't keep his job and in that I mean Rod Petrie
Former Hibernian midfielder Paul Kane

Rankin, though, pointed out that Hughes had led Hibs to fourth place last season and qualification for the Europa League.
"Last season, we did fantastic to get finish in fourth spot. He came in and the expectations were obviously to get into the top six, but the gaffer obviously produced the goods," he told BBC Scotland.
"At one point, you are actually looking to split the Old Firm, but the wheels came off the bus and we struggled for a while, but it was no reflection on him."

Hibs had sold top scorer Anthony Stokes to Celtic on transfer deadline day, but Rankin could understand why the club had allowed the striker to leave.

"Stokesies goals changed games for us last season, but he was desperate to go to Celtic," he said.
"He sort of forced the club's hand because he was so passionate about Celtic, the club he has always supported."
Rankin pointed out that Darryl Duffy had been signed as cover the previous day on loan from Bristol Rovers and had looked promising in training before suffering a serious injury in training that denied his services to Hughes.

Now Hibs' players were turning their thoughts to making amends against Kilmarnock a week on Saturday.
"Obviously the reaction amongst the dressing-room was that we were hugely disappointed," said Rankin.
"Naturally, we were all gutted and it took us a while to get our heads up, but it is a new era and we are now led by Gareth Evans, who is taking us for training at the moment."

Meanwhile, former Hibs midfielder Paul Kane questioned the future of chairman Rod Petrie with the club having gone through seven permanent managers in 10 years.

"In any walk of life, if you make two failures, usually the person who makes them doesn't keep his job and in that I mean Rod Petrie," he said.
"I know John very well and I would have loved for a Leith man to take the club to the next level.
"I am very, very sad that the club were a wee bit short in taking the decision so quick because John gave them what all Hibs fans wanted last year - although it went to the last game, he gave us Europe for the first time in five years."

[bawheid]

From what I heard there was a bit more to it than that.

However.... :rolleyes:

This is the problem though Doddie. It's clear that the players' have been leaking one-sided stories left, right and centre for their chums to gossip about and post all over the internet. It does the club no good at all.

Now when we get another side to the story, the :rolleyes: smilie comes out and it's summarily dismissed without any further thought.

Personally I hope the new manager comes in gets rid of the lot of them.

[J-C]

Rankin seems to contradict much of what Ian Murray says here: -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/hibernian/9064414.stm


John Rankin says he and his Hibernian team-mates were left "gutted" by the departure of manager John Hughes.

Hughes left the club on Monday after a poor string of results running into last season and with Hibs sitting tenth in the Scottish Premier League.
"The manager was very popular in the dressing-room," said Rankin.
"There were no divisions at all. Everybody was behind the gaffer 100% and the players have to take a huge part of the blame for the results."
Rankin believes luck has not been with Hibs this season as they recorded just one win in their first seven league games.
But it was a 2-0 defeat away to St Johnstone that eventually led to Hughes' departure and the midfielder said: "We were poor on Saturday and we have to look at ourselves. We have let ourselves down."

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/shared/img/o.gif
If you make two failures, usually the person who makes them doesn't keep his job and in that I mean Rod Petrie
Former Hibernian midfielder Paul Kane

Rankin, though, pointed out that Hughes had led Hibs to fourth place last season and qualification for the Europa League.
"Last season, we did fantastic to get finish in fourth spot. He came in and the expectations were obviously to get into the top six, but the gaffer obviously produced the goods," he told BBC Scotland.
"At one point, you are actually looking to split the Old Firm, but the wheels came off the bus and we struggled for a while, but it was no reflection on him."

Hibs had sold top scorer Anthony Stokes to Celtic on transfer deadline day, but Rankin could understand why the club had allowed the striker to leave.

"Stokesies goals changed games for us last season, but he was desperate to go to Celtic," he said.
"He sort of forced the club's hand because he was so passionate about Celtic, the club he has always supported."
Rankin pointed out that Darryl Duffy had been signed as cover the previous day on loan from Bristol Rovers and had looked promising in training before suffering a serious injury in training that denied his services to Hughes.

Now Hibs' players were turning their thoughts to making amends against Kilmarnock a week on Saturday.
"Obviously the reaction amongst the dressing-room was that we were hugely disappointed," said Rankin.
"Naturally, we were all gutted and it took us a while to get our heads up, but it is a new era and we are now led by Gareth Evans, who is taking us for training at the moment."

Meanwhile, former Hibs midfielder Paul Kane questioned the future of chairman Rod Petrie with the club having gone through seven permanent managers in 10 years.

"In any walk of life, if you make two failures, usually the person who makes them doesn't keep his job and in that I mean Rod Petrie," he said.
"I know John very well and I would have loved for a Leith man to take the club to the next level.
"I am very, very sad that the club were a wee bit short in taking the decision so quick because John gave them what all Hibs fans wanted last year - although it went to the last game, he gave us Europe for the first time in five years."


Again the club making sure no one says anything untoward about the ex gaffer, everyone liked him blah blah blah. There will always be favouritism and not all will see eye to eye with the boss, Yogi's problem was too much favouitism and too many disagreements with key players. As a boss you have to know how to get certain players on your side playing for you and also know when a players needs putting in his place or dropping him due to lack of form, Sir Alex is the perfect example of this as too was Brian Clough.

[Stevie Reid]

[QUOTE=gringojoe;2598399]

IMHO, that's out of order from Nish in that case, if it's a good account of what happened.

I absolutely despair at times. When you're about to play Celtc at Darkheid, you need everyone to do their bit to have a chance of coming away with anything. That sort of pish just puts a spoiler on everything.

Seriously, if I was the manager of a club where a player pulled that kind of nonsense, he would never play for the club again. I'd put laddies in before him, whatever, but he'd never kick a ball in earnest for me again. Disgraceful.

We need to take such an approach Matty, if the numerous stories of shocking player behaviour are true.

I remember Craig Levein cancelling every single Hearts first team squad member's holidays after a poor performance at Aberdeen, shortly after he took over - I remember thinking at the time that he was insane, and that the players would revolt at losing money and their holidays. Remember also that this was back at the tail end of the Sky TV deal, so Hearts would have some serious high earners in their squad.

He pulled it off and we felt the force of his Hearts team's spirit and never say die attitude on numerous occasions, unfortunately.

I must add though that all the stories of player indiscipline seem crazy when you consider that Riordan was fined for merely saying our pitch was crap.

[matty_f]

We need to take such an approach Matty, if the numerous stories of shocking player behaviour are true.

I remember Craig Levein cancelling every single Hearts first team squad member's holidays after a poor performance at Aberdeen, shortly after he took over - I remember thinking at the time that he was insane, and that the players would revolt at losing money and their holidays. Remember also that this was back at the tail end of the Sky TV deal, so Hearts would have some serious high earners in their squad.

He pulled it off and we felt the force of his Hearts team's spirit and never say die attitude on numerous occasions, unfortunately.

I must add though that all the stories of player indiscipline seem crazy when you consider that Riordan was fined for merely saying our pitch was crap.

Totally agree with that - I always maintained that because I didn't know both sides of what happened with Riordan that I wouldn't criticise the club for the fine, but when you hear about all the other guff that's alleged to happen, it's surprising we never turned a profit from player fines alone.

[J-C]

Was the hard line attitude to fines the clubs idea or the manager, if it was Yogi then you can see why the players would be peeved off with him for petty fines for speaking their minds. Whoever comes in has to take a hard line with all the time wasters at the club, shape up or ship out.

[bawheid]

Again the club making sure no one says anything untoward about the ex gaffer, everyone liked him blah blah blah. There will always be favouritism and not all will see eye to eye with the boss, Yogi's problem was too much favouitism and too many disagreements with key players. As a boss you have to know how to get certain players on your side playing for you and also know when a players needs putting in his place or dropping him due to lack of form, Sir Alex is the perfect example of this as too was Brian Clough.

:faf: Aye, I'm sure Comrade Petrie has laid down the law to the players. Nonsense.

As for the rest, you've been listening to too much internet tittle-tattle and taking it as gospel. Pestering Ian Murray at the David Lloyd doesn't count either.


Was the hard line attitude to fines the clubs idea or the manager, if it was Yogi then you can see why the players would be peeved off with him for petty fines for speaking their minds. Whoever comes in has to take a hard line with all the time wasters at the club, shape up or ship out.

You're getting your internet rumours all mixed up now. It was the Board who insisted on fining Riordan, not Hughes. Still, crack on with using it as another stick to beat him with though.

[J-C]

:faf: Aye, I'm sure Comrade Petrie has laid down the law to the players. Nonsense.

As for the rest, you've been listening to too much internet tittle-tattle and taking it as gospel. Pestering Ian Murray at the David Lloyd doesn't count either.

I don't think Petrie and the board would be too chuffed if a few players were to come out with bad things about dressing bust ups etc, they'll be well told about what not to say.
Don't know who you are to be telling me about pestering players at a sports club, I've known Ian for years and we talk whenever he's at the gym which isn't that often.:confused:


You're getting your internet rumours all mixed up now. It was the Board who insisted on fining Riordan, not Hughes. Still, crack on with using it as another stick to beat him with though.

How am I getting mixed up, Yogi was known as a bit of a bully and fining players for trivialities may well have been his idea, who exactly on this board knows, hence the reason we're all speculating about all the ins and out of what has been going on this past few months..