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Hibernia Na Eir
03-10-2010, 10:43 AM
We must be one of the favourites to go down this season. Just where IS our next win going to come?

Its a bad manager and a poor team, recipie for relegation:agree:

Green_one
03-10-2010, 10:57 AM
We must be one of the favourites to go down this season. Just where IS our next win going to come?

Its a bad manager and a poor team, recipie for relegation:agree:

If we do not change our manager then only St Mirren can save us. We are going backwards and have lost all confidence, both as a team and as supporters. Given the quality of the other teams I firmly believe that a quick positive change could move us well up the league fairly quickly.

Remembering Hibs usually have a good first half to a season :boo hoo:

ozzie
03-10-2010, 11:02 AM
i think a league restructure will save anyone from relegation this season but its not a position we want to or even should be in. :-C

essexhibee
03-10-2010, 11:10 AM
I honestly dont think we are going to win until Yogi leaves. Its unbelievable to think we may actually at some point this season be in a relegation battle.

truehibernian
03-10-2010, 11:21 AM
If the board don't take the obvious and bold decision to pay him off and sack him, it is very much between us and St Mirren. The lack of creativity and firepower is a major concern. No pace, width or creativity up front, with the front guys more willing to lie on the ground wanting free kicks than getting up and working their socks off. Midfield lacks height, braun and basic footballing skill. Backline under pressure throughout games due to the lack of real workrate from our midfield and front men.

Inverness (dare I say) have better options up front this season, as do Killie and St Johnstone. If Derek picks up an injury between now and December/January, our only real threat is gone.

The team is unfit, lacks real energy and they play like 11 individuals thrown together. None know their purpose in the side, and all look at each other after the goals fly in, looking for leadership and inspiration where there is none. Hughes hid in that dugout yesterday, bereft of ideas, lacking in leadership himself. The only thing he knows is to shout, berate and bully. There is no intelligent football leadership. His "tactics" (from a first team player) is "roll the sleeves up and get tore in". That is not tactics, that is asking for effort. Tactics is each player knowing their position, not drifting from it, keeping shape, and having a purpose. Yesterday there were occasions where one St J player had the ball and four yellow shirts were buzzing about not particularly doing anything. Each leaving the tackle to each other.

Brown (keeper) put Grounds under unneccessary pressure all first half with throw-outs. The St J forwards are hard working and press. This meant Grounds didn't have the time he clearly wanted and he was closed down each and every time. He also had no out ball as Rankin continually drifted infield. Nish and Riordan at times were only 5 yards apart. There was a chronic lack of width which the game cried out for.

Second half, McBride and Miller were too close to each other and all our midfield were in a 12-15 yard line. The space St J had was ridiculous and they had so much time to gather, look up, take it forward and cross. When we had the ball, their players pressed and tackled.

Nish did the hard bits well like winning the ball back, but again was let down by his football basics which are shocking to say the least. Derek lost a wee bit appetite as he is a player who gets annoyed and irritated by what he sees around him (though his first touch and control was terrible first half).

We never gave St Johnstone the need to answer questions put to them. Would putting Trakys, a player they haven't faced, sought answers from Duberry ? Would putting three up front and sacrificing McBride mean we woud stretch them at the back in the wide areas ? Could we have pushed Bamba into midfield, where we were struggling to break up play, given us a little steel and athleticism ?

Hughes, for me, watches too many DVD's and Spanish Football on Sky. This does not make him a manager. He is a fool.

Craig Brown and Archie Knox, doesn't matter what anyone say, have studied and learned the game inside and out. At some of the best clubs and also internationally. We need them or someone like them more than ever to both settle the side, steady them, teach them, and introduce a disciplined culture. They would also be perfect for the youth players IMHO.

BullbreedHFC
03-10-2010, 11:58 AM
If the board don't take the obvious and bold decision to pay him off and sack him, it is very much between us and St Mirren. The lack of creativity and firepower is a major concern. No pace, width or creativity up front, with the front guys more willing to lie on the ground wanting free kicks than getting up and working their socks off. Midfield lacks height, braun and basic footballing skill. Backline under pressure throughout games due to the lack of real workrate from our midfield and front men.

Inverness (dare I say) have better options up front this season, as do Killie and St Johnstone. If Derek picks up an injury between now and December/January, our only real threat is gone.

The team is unfit, lacks real energy and they play like 11 individuals thrown together. None know their purpose in the side, and all look at each other after the goals fly in, looking for leadership and inspiration where there is none. Hughes hid in that dugout yesterday, bereft of ideas, lacking in leadership himself. The only thing he knows is to shout, berate and bully. There is no intelligent football leadership. His "tactics" (from a first team player) is "roll the sleeves up and get tore in". That is not tactics, that is asking for effort. Tactics is each player knowing their position, not drifting from it, keeping shape, and having a purpose. Yesterday there were occasions where one St J player had the ball and four yellow shirts were buzzing about not particularly doing anything. Each leaving the tackle to each other.

Brown (keeper) put Grounds under unneccessary pressure all first half with throw-outs. The St J forwards are hard working and press. This meant Grounds didn't have the time he clearly wanted and he was closed down each and every time. He also had no out ball as Rankin continually drifted infield. Nish and Riordan at times were only 5 yards apart. There was a chronic lack of width which the game cried out for.

Second half, McBride and Miller were too close to each other and all our midfield were in a 12-15 yard line. The space St J had was ridiculous and they had so much time to gather, look up, take it forward and cross. When we had the ball, their players pressed and tackled.

Nish did the hard bits well like winning the ball back, but again was let down by his football basics which are shocking to say the least. Derek lost a wee bit appetite as he is a player who gets annoyed and irritated by what he sees around him (though his first touch and control was terrible first half).

We never gave St Johnstone the need to answer questions put to them. Would putting Trakys, a player they haven't faced, sought answers from Duberry ? Would putting three up front and sacrificing McBride mean we woud stretch them at the back in the wide areas ? Could we have pushed Bamba into midfield, where we were struggling to break up play, given us a little steel and athleticism ?

Hughes, for me, watches too many DVD's and Spanish Football on Sky. This does not make him a manager. He is a fool.

Craig Brown and Archie Knox, doesn't matter what anyone say, have studied and learned the game inside and out. At some of the best clubs and also internationally. We need them or someone like them more than ever to both settle the side, steady them, teach them, and introduce a disciplined culture. They would also be perfect for the youth players IMHO.









great post ......:top marks as for fighting relegation :grr:

H18sry
03-10-2010, 12:04 PM
As long as ST Mirren are in the league we wont go down. :wink:

The_Todd
03-10-2010, 12:10 PM
Current odds go from 20/1 to 50/1. Long odds, but just 2 weeks ago when I checked 40/1 was the best you could get.

Aberdeen, St Johnstone, Hamilton, Inverness, St Mirren and Kilmarnock still have shorter odds than us, so I guess the only thing I'm clinging onto at the moment is the bookies are usually pretty good at this.

PC Stamp
03-10-2010, 01:05 PM
As long as ST Mirren are in the league we wont go down. :wink:

Is that the same St Mirren who beat us a few weeks ago we are talking about?

smurf
03-10-2010, 01:15 PM
Yes we are in a relegation battle. Anyone watching that yesterday would be crazy to suggest otherwise.

hibiedude
03-10-2010, 01:18 PM
We must be one of the favourites to go down this season. Just where IS our next win going to come?

Its a bad manager and a poor team, recipie for relegation:agree:

Going by the 2 points you raise the answer has to be YES

erin-go-bragh87
03-10-2010, 01:23 PM
Can someone tell me honestly tell me if Im realy stupid in thinking that with the players we have such as Liam Miller, Derek Riordan, Sol Bamba, Zemmama, Wotherspoon that this shouldnt even be a posibility for us, therefor the position we are in has to be down to the manager being unable to get the tactics and formation right. I cant get my head round the fact that we have on paper some o the best players in the league outside the old firm and yet here we are talking about relegation.

Wilson
03-10-2010, 01:43 PM
Can someone tell me honestly tell me if Im realy stupid in thinking that with the players we have such as Liam Miller, Derek Riordan, Sol Bamba, Zemmama, Wotherspoon that this shouldnt even be a posibility for us, therefor the position we are in has to be down to the manager being unable to get the tactics and formation right. I cant get my head round the fact that we have on paper some o the best players in the league outside the old firm and yet here we are talking about relegation.

Liam Miller - Over-rated / disinterested
Riordan - Doesn't do enough for the team
Bamba - Wants away
Zemmama - Injured / Ramadan / Injured
Wotherspoon - Failing to live up to his early promise

There lies part of the problem. The above are our great hope and they all come with their own baggage. We could be quite a potent threat to anybody if they were all fit, motivated, and fighting for the cause.

They aren't though.

Spike Mandela
03-10-2010, 01:50 PM
Can someone tell me honestly tell me if Im realy stupid in thinking that with the players we have such as Liam Miller, Derek Riordan, Sol Bamba, Zemmama, Wotherspoon that this shouldnt even be a posibility for us, therefor the position we are in has to be down to the manager being unable to get the tactics and formation right. I cant get my head round the fact that we have on paper some o the best players in the league outside the old firm and yet here we are talking about relegation.

Riordan yes. Miller is living on former glories and largely ineffectual in majority of games, Bamba is at best erratic classy one minute, ball watching the next and just because Wotherspoon is the best of our recent young guys to come through doesn't make him a 'great ' player, yet. Zemamma you may have noticed hasn't played for around 9 months.

This myth that we have best squad outside the OF is surely being shown up for what it is. The squad talent has been diluted year on year with player sales since the good squad Mowbray had. The wage bill may have went up but consistently selling our best players has deteriorated the squad to the rag tag bunch we have now.

Of course it is too early to talk of relegation but at this stage of the club's financial development we should reasonably be expecting to compete for top six every year. That looks very difficult with this team this year.

NORTHERNHIBBY
03-10-2010, 01:57 PM
This season is panning out very much like McLeish's team third year back up. Although I would doubt that we will get relegated, I can see attendances falling drastically. Everyone of us that dug deep to buy or renew a season ticket has a right to feel cheated.

FromTheCapital
03-10-2010, 02:19 PM
According to my mate Kevin, Were 14/1 on to go down ! :grr:

The_Todd
03-10-2010, 02:22 PM
According to my mate Kevin, Were 14/1 on to go down ! :grr:

Is your mate Kevin a bookie? 20/1 best I can find.

Dunbar Hibee
03-10-2010, 02:25 PM
[QUOTE=Bourne Yesterday;2595063]
Riordan - Doesn't do enough for the team

I can only hope your joking.

Wilson
03-10-2010, 02:29 PM
[QUOTE=Bourne Yesterday;2595063]
Riordan - Doesn't do enough for the team

I can only hope your joking.

Devil's advocate.

More qualified people than I have said as much.

truehibernian
03-10-2010, 02:43 PM
[QUOTE=Dunbar Hibee;2595096]

Devil's advocate.

More qualified people than I have said as much.

When he is playing with a smile on his face, with people around him that know they way he plays, and in a winning team, Derek is simply wonderful to watch. When he is in a side that is in a slump and has no desire, Derek tends to spit the dummy and his workrate drops significantly. In defence of this it is because he is a good player technically and he gets so irritated that those around him don't have the same vision or technique.

Also, because their is no pace or width in the team, opposition teams can easily mark him out the game as we play narrow and through the middle. In a congested situation like that he has more players around him to contend with. In TM's side he had Sproule, Shiels, Brown, GOC who could all play with a bit of pace and energy. Hughes team is lazy and static.

erin-go-bragh87
03-10-2010, 06:31 PM
[QUOTE=Bourne Yesterday;2595100]

When he is playing with a smile on his face, with people around him that know they way he plays, and in a winning team, Derek is simply wonderful to watch. When he is in a side that is in a slump and has no desire, Derek tends to spit the dummy and his workrate drops significantly. In defence of this it is because he is a good player technically and he gets so irritated that those around him don't have the same vision or technique.

Also, because their is no pace or width in the team, opposition teams can easily mark him out the game as we play narrow and through the middle. In a congested situation like that he has more players around him to contend with. In TM's side he had Sproule, Shiels, Brown, GOC who could all play with a bit of pace and energy. Hughes team is lazy and static.

:top marks

Duffys13
03-10-2010, 06:50 PM
Check the results from the last time we were relegated. Bring's back some horrible memories just looking at it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_Hibernian_F.C._season

fife hfc
03-10-2010, 07:43 PM
Yes we can go down and unlike the others we do not have any fight, so if we are in this position come April then we will go down. This is not a knee jerk reaction it is based on on how we have played throughout 2010 and the fact we have no fight, leadership or a manager capable of getting us out of this mess.

hibsfootsoldier
03-10-2010, 09:58 PM
Check the results from the last time we were relegated. Bring's back some horrible memories just looking at it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_Hibernian_F.C._season



Just looked at it and if I didn't fully believe we'd get relagated this year I do now after seein the actual stats from that many years ago.

Hughes out now!

Liberal Hibby
04-10-2010, 12:00 AM
Just looked at it and if I didn't fully believe we'd get relagated this year I do now after seein the actual stats from that many years ago.

Hughes out now!

Except we were top of the league after half a dozen games...

This season isn't like 1998 and Hughes is no Duffy. It's completely different(as are all seasons) - but that doesn't mean it won't end up the same.

I can't say whether Hughes should go now - the 5mins of highlights don't tell you a lot, but we looked a disorganised rabble against the Saints.

The question is simple - can Hughes turn the slump around? And can he give the board confidence that he can turn it around? If not then he's out.

But then the whole process starts again. What the club desperately needs is a long term manager who will develop the young players at the club's disposal - even if that means a couple of years of bumping around the middle or lower end of the SPL. I'm fed up of JC buying his favouite huddies at our expense, to be replaced by Mixu buying his favourite huddies at our expense, followed by Hughes buying his favourite huddies at our expense. It's exactly like the Scotland set up with a merry-go-round of journeymen failing to qualify while young talent never get the chance it deserves.

Our next manager must be articulate enough to start managing the expectations of the fans much better. And the board must be prepared as well to articulate it's long term strategy for developing the playing talent at the club. The board should also put in place a proper succession strategy for the manager - like Liverpool had in the 60s and 70s. Incidently are many reds calling for Hodgson's head?

IWasThere2016
04-10-2010, 06:59 AM
Huge round of boos after the Blackpool defeat - and yes some fans want him out.

Otherwise, I agree with your post LH.

The only Boardroom strategy appears to spend money on infrastructure to protect RP's pension fund and let him cruise to retirement.

marinello59
04-10-2010, 07:12 AM
Huge round of boos after the Blackpool defeat - and yes some fans want him out.

Otherwise, I agree with your post LH.

The only Boardroom strategy appears to spend money on infrastructure to protect RP's pension fund and let him cruise to retirement.

Come off it TQM, that's a ridiculous statement. You don't honestly believe that do you?

Steve-O
04-10-2010, 07:14 AM
Check the results from the last time we were relegated. Bring's back some horrible memories just looking at it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997%E2%80%9398_Hibernian_F.C._season

Hmmm, the same season we sold our top scorer to Celtic just before the season started...:hmmm:

Another interesting omen is that it was that 3-4 Rangers game where we really started going downhill that season...

On this occasion we've been going well downhill since that 1-4 defeat to Rangers at xmas...

Sack the buffoon before the omens come true again! :bye: