Platini and Blatter grow a pair( NHC)

[monktonharp]

Michele Platini has announced the intention of UEFA to expel Israel from European competitions,and has mentioned in his statement that he has had correspondence from Sepp Blatter backing his descision, IF,Israel continues to refuse access to sport by Palestinian citizens,and continues to give their people no fairness in the terms of Sport. for that,he must be congratulated,imho.

[Skanko79]

Michele Platini has announced the intention of UEFA to expel Israel from European competitions,and has mentioned in his statement that he has had correspondence from Sepp Blatter backing his descision, IF,Israel continues to refuse access to sport by Palestinian citizens,and continues to give their people no fairness in the terms of Sport. for that,he must be congratulated,imho.

Cant say i agree with this to be honest. The situation politically really has bugger all to do with football. Why should football fans suffer? If Platini and Blatter concentrated on their jobs instead of butting into other country's political issues then surely it would be better for the game. Then again it is Platini and Blatter we are on about, dumb and dumber.

[monktonharp]

Cant say i agree with this to be honest. The situation politically really has bugger all to do with football. Why should football fans suffer? If Platini and Blatter concentrated on their jobs instead of butting into other country's political issues then surely it would be better for the game. Then again it is Platini and Blatter we are on about, dumb and dumber. hope this doesnot upset you,but thats pish.he's on about sport,not politics,level playing fields and a' that,but Icould argue the political angle you try to bring in................all night.

[Skanko79]

hope this doesnot upset you,but thats pish.he's on about sport,not politics,level playing fields and a' that,but Icould argue the political angle you try to bring in................all night.

Still really has fek all to do with football though. why should football fans suffer at the hands of someone elses decisions?

There is no place for politics in football buddy. you will have to argue with yourself on that one im affraid. :thumbsup:

[monktonharp]

Still really has fek all to do with football though. why should football fans suffer at the hands of someone elses decisions?

There is no place for politics in football buddy. you will have to argue with yourself on that one im affraid. :thumbsup:palestine has football fans:wink:

[Woody1985]

The rules of football state there should be no government running sport associations or other active influence. I don't know what's been said other than the op. If they're involved then they should be banned like any other. The only reason the play in Europe is because their 'own' continent hates them!

Usually p and s talk ***** 101% of the time!

[Eire hibs]

It is political. Why else is Israel, not even in Europe, playing in European competition?

I remember reading a long winded explanation from FIFA as to why this is allowed but no matter how you dress it up, it is political

Let them play in their own geographic region and Palestine can take their place in Europe.

[Skanko79]

palestine has football fans:wink:

aye thats right. and they have a normal federation which is recognised by fifa. They compete just like any other nation with a full domestic set up and compete in the asian qualifiers for the world cup.

Regardless of what continet either Israel or Palestine chooses to play in all im saying is why should the fans who love the game just as we do have to suffer?

[Dalehibbie]

It was us Great Britain with all our Allies that helped throw the Palestinians out of their country and gave it to the Holocaust survivors, because we did not know and had no stomach to deal with them. We at the time just wanted rid of the problem, I for one, do not blame one of our only allies in the region for defending themselves in the past. They could perhaps act differently now, but can we really blame them after 6 million murdered and several wars to maintain their country. I know not everyone is going to agree with me, but this is my opinion, and I have always supported Israel. However it is predominantley our fault they are where they are.

[NaeTechnoHibby]

It was us Great Britain with all our Allies that helped throw the Palestinians out of their country and gave it to the Holocaust survivors, because we did not know and had no stomach to deal with them. We at the time just wanted rid of the problem, I for one, do not blame one of our only allies in the region for defending themselves in the past. They could perhaps act differently now, but can we really blame them after 6 million murdered and several wars to maintain their country. I know not everyone is going to agree with me, but this is my opinion, and I have always supported Israel. However it is predominantley our fault they are where they are.

Maybe you should take this to another forum....

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?184400-What-Have-Those-Israeli-Scamps-Been-Up-to-Now

There is a fair few more if ye search :agree:

[MrSmith]

I could never, never ever support a country like Israel! For a people who suffered atrocities during the WWII to act the way they do and have caused suffering to women and children in not allowing aid into Palestine cutting of every viable route that would assist these poor, poor people is absolutely disgusting and despicable!!

Posters have rightly stated that it is our fault and it is but let me say this: Israel is no ally of the UK, particularly not mine nor in my name!

Horrific, horrific, horrific horrible political sham of a nation - they act no better, in regards to the Palestinian people, than the Nazis did towards them!

[sydneyhibee]

I could never, never ever support a country like Israel! For a people who suffered atrocities during the WWII to act the way they do and have caused suffering to women and children in not allowing aid into Palestine cutting of every viable route that would assist these poor, poor people is absolutely disgusting and despicable!!

Posters have rightly stated that it is our fault and it is but let me say this: Israel is no ally of the UK, particularly not mine nor in my name!

Horrific, horrific, horrific horrible political sham of a nation - they act no better, in regards to the Palestinian people, than the Nazis did towards them!

:top marks

[Skanko79]

So really guys, whats all the last 3 posts got to do with football?

As i said before, is it right that Israeli football fans should suffer because of all this?

[MrSmith]

So really guys, whats all the last 3 posts got to do with football?

As i said before, is it right that Israeli football fans should suffer because of all this?

Lots and lots and lots! Football was set-up due to social politics and has been embroiled or if you prefer intertwined ever since!

Well, English fans suffered due to their behavior in Europe so... what applies to one should apply to another!

[ScottB]

So really guys, whats all the last 3 posts got to do with football?

As i said before, is it right that Israeli football fans should suffer because of all this?

FIFA and UEFA insist on football having no Government involvement, hell they threatened France with expulsion after their government started getting involved post World Cup.

If Israeli government policy is preventing Palestine from participating in football tournaments or some such, then yes, Israel fall foul of the rules and should be threatened with expulsion. If they continue with this policy they should be expelled. End of.

Rules are rules and are there for everyone, that Israel would appear to think it doesn't have to listen and can do what it likes (shock of all horrors right there) is their business. Yes fans suffer, but how else do you go about things? That's like saying it's wrong to punish stupid football clubs that spend themselves into oblivion with relegation cause it hurts their fans. This ban would be quickly and easily changed if Israel behaved according to the statutes and laws they signed up to, it's up to the fans to protest that point as well surely?

[Skanko79]

FIFA and UEFA insist on football having no Government involvement, hell they threatened France with expulsion after their government started getting involved post World Cup.

If Israeli government policy is preventing Palestine from participating in football tournaments or some such, then yes, Israel fall foul of the rules and should be threatened with expulsion. If they continue with this policy they should be expelled. End of.

Rules are rules and are there for everyone, that Israel would appear to think it doesn't have to listen and can do what it likes (shock of all horrors right there) is their business. Yes fans suffer, but how else do you go about things? That's like saying it's wrong to punish stupid football clubs that spend themselves into oblivion with relegation cause it hurts their fans. This ban would be quickly and easily changed if Israel behaved according to the statutes and laws they signed up to, it's up to the fans to protest that point as well surely?

But they are not stopping palestine from playing anywhere. palestinian clubs compete in the asian champions league and the country palestine qualifies (or tries to) in the asian qualifiers. its a completely different federation.

Has it struck you at all that maybe the fans dont want caught up in all this and just want to watch football? regardless of wether its in europe or asia?

[Skanko79]

Lots and lots and lots! Football was set-up due to social politics and has been embroiled or if you prefer intertwined ever since!

Well, English fans suffered due to their behavior in Europe so... what applies to one should apply to another!


but do you really think fans of Maccabi haifa or Maccabi tel aviv really give a toss about politics? maybe they just want to watch football, your not getting my point at all. its the fans that matter, not the politicians.

how can you compare this situation to englands ban? a "minority" of english fans were hell bent on destroying every city they visited thus leading them to being banned and rightly so. That has bugger all to do with what we are on about?

[Beefster]

I could never, never ever support a country like Israel! For a people who suffered atrocities during the WWII to act the way they do and have caused suffering to women and children in not allowing aid into Palestine cutting of every viable route that would assist these poor, poor people is absolutely disgusting and despicable!!

Posters have rightly stated that it is our fault and it is but let me say this: Israel is no ally of the UK, particularly not mine nor in my name!

Horrific, horrific, horrific horrible political sham of a nation - they act no better, in regards to the Palestinian people, than the Nazis did towards them!

Despite not supporting the state of Israel or its actions, if you had read anything about the holocaust, you'd know the bit in bold is nonsense. Israel has done some horrific things to the Palestinians but it's nowhere near as bad as most Jews were treated by the Nazis and certain countries occupied by the Nazis.

As for the OP, good on UEFA and FIFA. The more pressure put on Israel the better.

[aberhibsfc]

Cant say i agree with this to be honest. The situation politically really has bugger all to do with football. Why should football fans suffer? If Platini and Blatter concentrated on their jobs instead of butting into other country's political issues then surely it would be better for the game. Then again it is Platini and Blatter we are on about, dumb and dumber.
:taxi

Isreal are a disgrace. The more publicity highlighting Israel's treatment of the Palestinians the better. They are a flaming disgrace.

They are not European and only play in Europe because their neighbours won't play them. If football fans shouldn't suffer why must the Palestinian football fans not be catered for?

[MrSmith]

Despite not supporting the state of Israel or its actions, if you had read anything about the holocaust, you'd know the bit in bold is nonsense. Israel has done some horrific things to the Palestinians but it's nowhere near as bad as most Jews were treated by the Nazis and certain countries occupied by the Nazis.

As for the OP, good on UEFA and FIFA. The more pressure put on Israel the better.

No beefster, you are reading to deep into that bit. What the Nazis did was dreadful to say the least and lets not forget what the Russians did either! However the point was for a people who have suffered such levels of atrocity and barely surviving it, should know better and act differently towards another set of people who were displaced to give them a homeland. However the Palestinian people have been subject and subjected to many forms of violence, social political and religious cruelty from Israel ever since.

So what you appear to be getting at is that one form of violence is more acceptable than the other and more significantly, because the Jewish people suffered such atrocities by the Nazis it gives them an excuse or a raison-detre to inflict more pain and suffering on Palestinian people without baring any human or social responsibility?

And just as a side note. my father was Polish, his squad liberated Auschwitz and because of this, I don't need to read about the holocaust - although I have - as my old fella spoke little about it, but I got the gravity of the horrors they uncovered and state of the survivors.

[aberhibsfc]

Despite not supporting the state of Israel or its actions, if you had read anything about the holocaust, you'd know the bit in bold is nonsense. Israel has done some horrific things to the Palestinians but it's nowhere near as bad as most Jews were treated by the Nazis and certain countries occupied by the Nazis.

As for the OP, good on UEFA and FIFA. The more pressure put on Israel the better.

:agree:

What the Nazi's inflicted on the Jewish people was horrific it is not quite the same. Israel would probably be quite happy if Palestiniains didn't exist but they wouldn't drop to the depths of the Nazi's. However decades of suppression is hardly ideal either, it's a slow and painful existance.

Whilst I don't agree with the statement made regards the Nazi treatment, I think I can translate and empathise with the theory. The Jewish people were treated abominally during the 2nd World War, this message has rightly been sent out across the world, as an example of to us all how not to treat fellow human beings. Rightly / Wrongly Britain and America colluded to return Jerusalem / Israel to the Jewish people per their title deeds (bible), this way the Jewish people would have a home independent state to live if they wished to. Little consideration was given to the natives, Palestine.

I would think a people whom have shared their recent history of Nazi Barbarism with us all as a morale pointer should also be able to learn and identify people persecution. Whilst the persecution inflicted is not the same, it's just symantics, people are still unnecessarily losing their lives.

The closest I can find to this situation was militarised Northern Ireland, not a nice place to live at the time, I can understand why the military were there, however there was unnecessary lose of life on either side. Whilst not ideal, we were hardly firing retalitory missles into housing schemes every now and then.

It's too emotive a situation, it's alright me sitting here with my armchair politics. It's no good for my heart. I'm checking out.

Ps, please, please, please, one day can all this harm to fellow humans come ot end, it's all so pointless, especially in what is supposed to be a civilised era.

[hibsdaft]

i think we need more info on what this means in practical terms:
"IF Israel continues to refuse access to sport by Palestinian citizens,and continues to give their people no fairness in the terms of Sport"

i've found this which provides more substance:


Palestinian football has been frequently disrupted by policies of the occupation, although informally there are agreements to leave it untouched as a “humanitarian gesture”. The domestic league season is often shut down prematurely; only seven seasons have been completed since 1977 and players are commonly subjected to harassment and violence. Two national team players from Gaza, Ayman Alkurd and Wajeh Moshate, were killed during Operation Cast Lead and the national stadium was destroyed by Israeli bombs.

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php?article1554

[AgentDaleCooper]

But they are not stopping palestine from playing anywhere. palestinian clubs compete in the asian champions league and the country palestine qualifies (or tries to) in the asian qualifiers. its a completely different federation.

Has it struck you at all that maybe the fans dont want caught up in all this and just want to watch football? regardless of wether its in europe or asia?

since it's the fans you're so concerned about - palestine's national team has to play all its games outside palestine. given that it's nigh-on impossible for palestinians to leave their country without being shot at, this makes it difficult for fans of the football team to see their team play.

[ScottB]

But they are not stopping palestine from playing anywhere. palestinian clubs compete in the asian champions league and the country palestine qualifies (or tries to) in the asian qualifiers. its a completely different federation.

Has it struck you at all that maybe the fans dont want caught up in all this and just want to watch football? regardless of wether its in europe or asia?

They are though.

How else do you suggest punishing nations / teams that break the rules? I suppose you would have opposed the Italians relegating Juventus for match fixing? Or relegating clubs that spend themselves into administration?

Why are you so keen to see this as UEFA's fault? Israel know the rules fine well, they were warned, they ignored it. The fans your so concerned for should be angry at the policies of the Israeli government, not UEFA (finally) growing some balls (as the rest of the international community could do with doing, this is hardly the first set of international laws the Israelis have ignored). Yes it punishes fans, but as I said, how else do you propose to sanction an international side or football team?

[One Day Soon]

Sport is just about the most powerful and effective way to communicate political messages. Within sport football comes close to top of the tree.

That's why black athletes raised their arms in salute at past Olympic games, its part of how the Catalonian people preserved their language and their identity at Barcelona under Franco, its why Israeli athletes were murdered by terrorists at the German Olympics, its why the Chinese authorities will contemplate almost anything to ensure their athletes win medals at competitions, its why sporting boycotts were attempted during apartheid in South Africa and also why South Africa was so desperate to host the World Cup, its why Hitler wanted to host the Nazi Olympics and why he took it so badly when white aryan German athletes were defeated by black athletes and its why the USSR versus USA at ice hockey was so charged with wider resonance.

If you want to raise public awareness, send a reprimand, put pressure on political leaders or just stand up and say "we're no having it" then find a way to exclude a nation from sporting participation. A more effective political kick in the nads that is actually deliverable is hard to find.

Football fans cannot isolate themselves from politics. Everything is politics, not everything is party political perhaps, but everything is politics.

[Betty Boop]

Sport is just about the most powerful and effective way to communicate political messages. Within sport football comes close to top of the tree.

That's why black athletes raised their arms in salute at past Olympic games, its part of how the Catalonian people preserved their language and their identity at Barcelona under Franco, its why Israeli athletes were murdered by terrorists at the German Olympics, its why the Chinese authorities will contemplate almost anything to ensure their athletes win medals at competitions, its why sporting boycotts were attempted during apartheid in South Africa and also why South Africa was so desperate to host the World Cup, its why Hitler wanted to host the Nazi Olympics and why he took it so badly when white aryan German athletes were defeated by black athletes and its why the USSR versus USA at ice hockey was so charged with wider resonance.

If you want to raise public awareness, send a reprimand, put pressure on political leaders or just stand up and say "we're no having it" then find a way to exclude a nation from sporting participation. A more effective political kick in the nads that is actually deliverable is hard to find.

Football fans cannot isolate themselves from politics. Everything is politics, not everything is party political perhaps, but everything is politics.

:top marks

[sh00byd00]

It is political. Why else is Israel, not even in Europe, playing in European competition?

I remember reading a long winded explanation from FIFA as to why this is allowed but no matter how you dress it up, it is political

Let them play in their own geographic region and Palestine can take their place in Europe.

Political or not, your post borders on the ridiculous. if you can't get your head around why Israel can't/don't directly compete with the likes of Syria, Iran et al, then that says more about your ignorance than it does about any nonsense FIFA may or may not spout.

i suspect we share the same opinions on the whole Palestine/Israel malarkey, but lets be realistic whilst evaluating things on the sporting side of things.