Be Careful What You Wish For

[Phil D. Rolls]

There seem to be a lot of barrack room financiers emerging on the board at the moment. People with big talk of how the club should be doing better and highly critical of the board.

Shortly, I expect that pressure groups will be formed, and open letters will start to appear. The gist of the thing being that, with investment, the club can get themselves back where we belong.

What will be lacking is evidence of how that money can be raised and exactly what a realistic achievement for a Hibs team should be. With those criteria in place the fans will fall at the feet of any Duff and Gray, Kennedy, Romanov or Marr that comes along.

Time and time again, supporters overstep their mark as customers, and get it into their head that they know how to run a club. They don't, if they knew anything about money, they wouldn't be shelling out their hard earned on season tickets and tatty replica strips.

Money men regard supporters as small children. How else would you treat people who behave with the rationale of a 10 year old who wants to believe that Santa still exists?

Farmer is wanting to sell up Hibs, he has done a great job on the project and has the club in a sellable state. All he needs now is to sucker some mug into investing his lottery winnings or such into being the new Mr. Hibs.

We came close 12 years ago, and just about hounded STF out in favour of Brian Kennedy. At that time Tom still had things he wanted to do. Time moves on, things change, maybe this time he'll say "enough" when slabbering mobs gather outside the stand.

Take a look throughout football - starting in the west of the city, and see how many clubs rue the day their expectations outgrew their capabilities. Liverpool, Man Utd., Leeds United, to name but three.

[HFC 0-7]

There seem to be a lot of barrack room financiers emerging on the board at the moment. People with big talk of how the club should be doing better and highly critical of the board.

Shortly, I expect that pressure groups will be formed, and open letters will start to appear. The gist of the thing being that, with investment, the club can get themselves back where we belong.

What will be lacking is evidence of how that money can be raised and exactly what a realistic achievement for a Hibs team should be. With those criteria in place the fans will fall at the feet of any Duff and Gray, Kennedy, Romanov or Marr that comes along.

Time and time again, supporters overstep their mark as customers, and get it into their head that they know how to run a club. They don't, if they knew anything about money, they wouldn't be shelling out their hard earned on season tickets and tatty replica strips.

Money men regard supporters as small children. How else would you treat people who behave with the rationale of a 10 year old who wants to believe that Santa still exists?

Farmer is wanting to sell up Hibs, he has done a great job on the project and has the club in a sellable state. All he needs now is to sucker some mug into investing his lottery winnings or such into being the new Mr. Hibs.

We came close 12 years ago, and just about hounded STF out in favour of Brian Kennedy. At that time Tom still had things he wanted to do. Time moves on, things change, maybe this time he'll say "enough" when slabbering mobs gather outside the stand.

Take a look throughout football - starting in the west of the city, and see how many clubs rue the day their expectations outgrew their capabilities. Liverpool, Man Utd., Leeds United, to name but three.

When it comes to peoples opinions of the board I agree with your post in that some people think along these lines, I too would want some short term investment in the club as I can see a little debt helping and still being manageable. In the main i think that the critisism of the board is more their outlook on football and there recent failings in managerial choices and dealings.

IMO they have been to busy looking at infrastructure and the appearance of the club rather than how good the team is on the park. At the end of the day a club will be judged by honours and league finishings, not how good the stand is and how flashy the training facilities are. IMO the club have gone for the cheap option of managers which are close to hand, there seems to have been little or no head hunting of managers. The John Collins affair where it seems the board favoured the players instead of JC is probably the boards biggest blunder in terms of moving forward. The board seem happy to tick along without any real desire to succeed, JC had a proper vision which started with the players and the club changing the way they viewed, prepared and played football, however it seems that this was not liked by both players and board.

JC left and 2 managers later there has been some investment into the playing staff, massive investment in the infrastrucure and yet the team is moving backwards. Blame moves upwards, players arent playing well, thats the managers fault. Who employed the manager? The board! Ultimately they are responsible for the product and results on the pitch as they are in control of everything from the budget, players sales and purchases and managerial appointments.

[Alan Thomson]

It's not often I see such good sense posted on here.:agree: Hibs are among the best run clubs in the UK right now but if we were to follow the ideas of some we could quite easily end up concerned for our very existence................just look across the city!
Our present Board have been a model of good business sense and long may it remain that way. The one area they have failed so far is the recruitment and retention of a good team manager but I wouldn't blame them entirely for that....TM was an excellent appointment but unfortunately left for a bigger job. JC seemed to be a very good appointment but unfortunately his man management proved to be his weakness. Mixu was a reasonable choice but lacked experience..............He might yet show he's better than we thought. And Yogi, well perhaps that wasn't such a good choice but maybe he was the best they had to choose from.
I hope they try again.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I hope they try again.

:agree: There is no magic formula, just try,try and try again. Persevere, in fact.

[Speedway]

There seem to be a lot of barrack room financiers emerging on the board at the moment. People with big talk of how the club should be doing better and highly critical of the board.

Shortly, I expect that pressure groups will be formed, and open letters will start to appear. The gist of the thing being that, with investment, the club can get themselves back where we belong.

What will be lacking is evidence of how that money can be raised and exactly what a realistic achievement for a Hibs team should be. With those criteria in place the fans will fall at the feet of any Duff and Gray, Kennedy, Romanov or Marr that comes along.

Time and time again, supporters overstep their mark as customers, and get it into their head that they know how to run a club. They don't, if they knew anything about money, they wouldn't be shelling out their hard earned on season tickets and tatty replica strips.

Money men regard supporters as small children. How else would you treat people who behave with the rationale of a 10 year old who wants to believe that Santa still exists?
Farmer is wanting to sell up Hibs, he has done a great job on the project and has the club in a sellable state. All he needs now is to sucker some mug into investing his lottery winnings or such into being the new Mr. Hibs.

We came close 12 years ago, and just about hounded STF out in favour of Brian Kennedy. At that time Tom still had things he wanted to do. Time moves on, things change, maybe this time he'll say "enough" when slabbering mobs gather outside the stand.

Take a look throughout football - starting in the west of the city, and see how many clubs rue the day their expectations outgrew their capabilities. Liverpool, Man Utd., Leeds United, to name but three.

Prove that he doesn't.

[HFC 0-7]

It's not often I see such good sense posted on here.:agree: Hibs are among the best run clubs in the UK right now but if we were to follow the ideas of some we could quite easily end up concerned for our very existence................just look across the city!
Our present Board have been a model of good business sense and long may it remain that way. The one area they have failed so far is the recruitment and retention of a good team manager but I wouldn't blame them entirely for that....TM was an excellent appointment but unfortunately left for a bigger job. JC seemed to be a very good appointment but unfortunately his man management proved to be his weakness. Mixu was a reasonable choice but lacked experience..............He might yet show he's better than we thought. And Yogi, well perhaps that wasn't such a good choice but maybe he was the best they had to choose from.
I hope they try again.

I would have to disagree! IMO one of the biggest problems with Hibs right now is the players opinions of themselves and what the club deserves from them. In the plast few seasons there has been younger players mucking about, players shouting and managers and what seems to me just a general lack of respect from the players. JC wanted the players to know who was boss and that no player was bigger than the club. Unfortunately it seems that the way that the board sided meant the players got even more power over the manager.

IMO, the board made a huge mistake in its dealings over the Collins incident. The only manager I can really remember that delivered a trophy, had footballers that were athletes and was able to change a game tactically.

[Jack]

There seem to be a lot of barrack room financiers emerging on the board at the moment. People with big talk of how the club should be doing better and highly critical of the board.

Shortly, I expect that pressure groups will be formed, and open letters will start to appear. The gist of the thing being that, with investment, the club can get themselves back where we belong.

What will be lacking is evidence of how that money can be raised and exactly what a realistic achievement for a Hibs team should be. With those criteria in place the fans will fall at the feet of any Duff and Gray, Kennedy, Romanov or Marr that comes along.

Time and time again, supporters overstep their mark as customers, and get it into their head that they know how to run a club. They don't, if they knew anything about money, they wouldn't be shelling out their hard earned on season tickets and tatty replica strips.

Money men regard supporters as small children. How else would you treat people who behave with the rationale of a 10 year old who wants to believe that Santa still exists?

Farmer is wanting to sell up Hibs, he has done a great job on the project and has the club in a sellable state. All he needs now is to sucker some mug into investing his lottery winnings or such into being the new Mr. Hibs.

We came close 12 years ago, and just about hounded STF out in favour of Brian Kennedy. At that time Tom still had things he wanted to do. Time moves on, things change, maybe this time he'll say "enough" when slabbering mobs gather outside the stand.

Take a look throughout football - starting in the west of the city, and see how many clubs rue the day their expectations outgrew their capabilities. Liverpool, Man Utd., Leeds United, to name but three.

Aye, maybe but ….

What evidence is there to suggest STF wants to sell? Is this is even remotely true?

You mention a bid 12 years ago that STF gave short shift to, so the rumour goes. There's been a coupe more unsubstantiated rumours (jambombs???) but TBF I’ve never heard anything that would make me think any such notion is anywhere near being real.



Jambo + bombs = jambombs: a juicy piece of misinformation left by a yam on a Hibs fans forum like a landmine. :angeldevi :agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Aye, maybe but ….

What evidence is there to suggest STF wants to sell? Is this is even remotely true?

You mention a bid 12 years ago that STF gave short shift to, so the rumour goes. There's been a coupe more unsubstantiated rumours (jambombs???) but TBF I’ve never heard anything that would make me think any such notion is anywhere near being real.



Jambo + bombs = jambombs: a juicy piece of misinformation left by a yam on a Hibs fans forum like a landmine. :angeldevi :agree:

I have no evidence whatsoever that he is about to sell. If he did the club is an attractive proposition for an investor.

Tom Farmer was a reluctant investor in Hibs. The Lochend Butterfly may well have been the carrot. He has always stayed away from the football club. He is getting on in years. These are facts which fuel my speculation.

Tom has been good for Hibs. Hibs have been good for Tom. To his credit, he has never claimed a passion for the club. For that reason, is it too unrealistic to wonder if the day he walks away will come, and may not be too far away?

I only mention this because a braying mob cannot be far off, much as happened at the PBS. Fans have to know what they are asking for. Or maybe they don't because they are customers when it suits them.

[PaulSmith]

FR, I think we're a long way off any form of open letters, fans pressure groups etc to ask for the removal of the Board. In fact I'd go as far as to say there would be very little response if someone wanted to kick this off.

The issue is around the performances on the football park, anyone with half a brain can see that the current board have put in place structures that will outlast many managers and supporters.

However there must be a share of collective responsbility within the board of the football club for the failed managerial appointments in the last 10 years. It has been truly appalling and along with them allowing player culture to rule throughout the years there should be questions asked.

I do not forsee any banners, meetings, hounding out, protests or the like aimed at STF. There will be questions asked at the AGM though and this would be the correct forum for these to be answered.

STF has always been quite open in the fact that he would be willing to sell Hibs but only to the right buyer. Even if he was to walk away tomorrow the main crux of the matter is that Hibs are not now dependant on STF's wealth in any way shape or form and perhaps, just perhaps now would be the right time for a change in chairperson as I don't believe that the current Board have anyone with the footballing know-how to progress on the football side of the business.

[Phil D. Rolls]

FR, I think we're a long way off any form of open letters, fans pressure groups etc to ask for the removal of the Board. In fact I'd go as far as to say there would be very little response if someone wanted to kick this off.

The issue is around the performances on the football park, anyone with half a brain can see that the current board have put in place structures that will outlast many managers and supporters.

However there must be a share of collective responsbility within the board of the football club for the failed managerial appointments in the last 10 years. It has been truly appalling and along with them allowing player culture to rule throughout the years there should be questions asked.

I do not forsee any banners, meetings, hounding out, protests or the like aimed at STF. There will be questions asked at the AGM though and this would be the correct forum for these to be answered.

STF has always been quite open in the fact that he would be willing to sell Hibs but only to the right buyer. Even if he was to walk away tomorrow the main crux of the matter is that Hibs are not now dependant on STF's wealth in any way shape or form and perhaps, just perhaps now would be the right time for a change in chairperson as I don't believe that the current Board have anyone with the footballing know-how to progress on the football side of the business.

I think that we have to accept that it was an "either or" situation. We couldn't invest on the pitch and put the infrastructure in place at the same time. I would hope that, having bitten the bullet and suffered on the park, money has now been freed up for players, and - more importantly - a good manager.

[Franck is God]

I would have to disagree! IMO one of the biggest problems with Hibs right now is the players opinions of themselves and what the club deserves from them. In the plast few seasons there has been younger players mucking about, players shouting and managers and what seems to me just a general lack of respect from the players. JC wanted the players to know who was boss and that no player was bigger than the club. Unfortunately it seems that the way that the board sided meant the players got even more power over the manager.

IMO, the board made a huge mistake in its dealings over the Collins incident. The only manager I can really remember that delivered a trophy, had footballers that were athletes and was able to change a game tactically.


Agree with this 100%, by not backing the manager and allowing him to empty every player that was involved they handed to the power straight to the players and that has been where it has been ever since.

[Jack]

I have no evidence whatsoever that he is about to sell. If he did the club is an attractive proposition for an investor.

Tom Farmer was a reluctant investor in Hibs. The Lochend Butterfly may well have been the carrot. He has always stayed away from the football club. He is getting on in years. These are facts which fuel my speculation.

Tom has been good for Hibs. Hibs have been good for Tom. To his credit, he has never claimed a passion for the club. For that reason, is it too unrealistic to wonder if the day he walks away will come, and may not be too far away?

I only mention this because a braying mob cannot be far off, much as happened at the PBS. Fans have to know what they are asking for. Or maybe they don't because they are customers when it suits them.

Can’t say I’ve seen him at matches (East Vs West although he was around the East before the Rangers game with RP) but I have seen him on open days and he’s always keen to chat about the club – I suppose that's why he's there in the first place :rolleyes:. I’ve also met him elsewhere and we’ve spoken about the club.

I have heard from two independent sources just recently that he is 1) at all the home games and 2) there's nothing happens at Hibs (off the field) that he doesn’t know about and takes a keen interest in.

Like you I used to think he didn’t much care for the club but my mind has been changed a little. IMO he cares little for the football but still is very interested in the club.

[RIP]

Agree with this 100%, by not backing the manager and allowing him to empty every player that was involved they handed to the power straight to the players and that has been where it has been ever since.

Agree 100%

The power lies with Rod and the players

The coach and his assistant is well down in the pecking order

That's the way it is at Easter Road

And therin lies the problem

[Cropley10]

Agree 100%

The power lies with Rod and the players

The coach and his assistant is well down in the pecking order

That's the way it is at Easter Road

And therin lies the problem

Correct.:agree:

[Dr Jimmy]

Agree 100%

The power lies with Rod and the players

The coach and his assistant is well down in the pecking order

That's the way it is at Easter Road

And therin lies the problem

To quote Alex Ferguson, "the most important person at any football club has to be the manager".
Unfortunately this is far from the case at ER.

[Kaiser1962]

I am still intrigued as to how we still use the word "invest" in the same sentence as a football club. As an "investment" opportunity any football club is about as attractive as herpes. What we, and everybody else, is looking for is someone who has more money than sense and is prepared to throw it away. STF has never made any secret that he will not throw money at Hibs and that he will only sell to someone who can take better care of Hibs than he has. IMHO that will be a difficult task.

[BEEJ]

Agree 100%

The power lies with Rod and the players

The coach and his assistant is well down in the pecking order

That's the way it is at Easter Road

And therin lies the problem
Which players? Ones that Hughes has signed or some of the 10 that he inherited who remain in the current squad?

And how do they exert this 'power'?

[new malkyhib]

There seem to be a lot of barrack room financiers emerging on the board at the moment. People with big talk of how the club should be doing better and highly critical of the board.

Shortly, I expect that pressure groups will be formed, and open letters will start to appear. The gist of the thing being that, with investment, the club can get themselves back where we belong.

What will be lacking is evidence of how that money can be raised and exactly what a realistic achievement for a Hibs team should be. With those criteria in place the fans will fall at the feet of any Duff and Gray, Kennedy, Romanov or Marr that comes along.

Time and time again, supporters overstep their mark as customers, and get it into their head that they know how to run a club. They don't, if they knew anything about money, they wouldn't be shelling out their hard earned on season tickets and tatty replica strips.

Money men regard supporters as small children. How else would you treat people who behave with the rationale of a 10 year old who wants to believe that Santa still exists?

Farmer is wanting to sell up Hibs, he has done a great job on the project and has the club in a sellable state. All he needs now is to sucker some mug into investing his lottery winnings or such into being the new Mr. Hibs.

We came close 12 years ago, and just about hounded STF out in favour of Brian Kennedy. At that time Tom still had things he wanted to do. Time moves on, things change, maybe this time he'll say "enough" when slabbering mobs gather outside the stand.

Take a look throughout football - starting in the west of the city, and see how many clubs rue the day their expectations outgrew their capabilities. Liverpool, Man Utd., Leeds United, to name but three.

You forgot Gretna and Hearts...

So if we don't all shut up and stop hassling the Board then we're all doomed?
If it wasn't for Hands on Hibs pressuring the Board at the time to invest money to get the club out of the First Division we might have went the way of Dunfermline and Dundee - two established teams who've struggled to get out that league.

Last time we went down, a certain Rod Petrie was on the Board who faffed around and sat on their hands gripped by inertia while a manager (Duffy) who was woefully out of his depth presided over one woeful result after another and effectively relegated us - ring any bells with the present situation?

So by all means continue your slavish allegiance to our £500k-a-year Board, but dinnae try and re-write history whatever you do...

[hibsdaft]

IMO he cares little for the football but still is very interested in the club.[/SIZE]

i think you've hit the nail on the head there.

[Bostonhibby]

Can’t say I’ve seen him at matches (East Vs West although he was around the East before the Rangers game with RP) but I have seen him on open days and he’s always keen to chat about the club – I suppose that's why he's there in the first place :rolleyes:. I’ve also met him elsewhere and we’ve spoken about the club.

I have heard from two independent sources just recently that he is 1) at all the home games and 2) there's nothing happens at Hibs (off the field) that he doesn’t know about and takes a keen interest in.

Like you I used to think he didn’t much care for the club but my mind has been changed a little. IMO he cares little for the football but still is very interested in the club.

For me I think it was originally and maybe always about doing something for Leith and a Leith institution that mattered more for STF, I think he was in a position to do it, felt it was right, so he did it, not as a purely business decision as he is so good at that that there must have been better, shorter term and maybe less hassle opportunities open to the man, for that, and the timing of his intervention I will always have a soft spot for him, I do have a feeling though that maybe Hibs and its community have grown on him a bit? - its hard to shake off, like a good fungus.

Glory Glory

[tamig]

So if we don't all shut up and stop hassling the Board then we're all doomed?
If it wasn't for Hands on Hibs pressuring the Board at the time to invest money to get the club out of the First Division we might have went the way of Dunfermline and Dundee - two established teams who've struggled to get out that league.



Remind me please. What was it Hands on Hibs did to get this investment you mention going? I can't remember anything about this at all :confused:

The current board have done a great job imo. We just need the right man in charge of the team.

[HFC 0-7]

Remind me please. What was it Hands on Hibs did to get this investment you mention going? I can't remember anything about this at all :confused:

The current board have done a great job imo. We just need the right man in charge of the team.

Who is responsible for that? And who has failed to get this right man?

[Phil D. Rolls]

You forgot Gretna and Hearts...

So if we don't all shut up and stop hassling the Board then we're all doomed?
If it wasn't for Hands on Hibs pressuring the Board at the time to invest money to get the club out of the First Division we might have went the way of Dunfermline and Dundee - two established teams who've struggled to get out that league.

Last time we went down, a certain Rod Petrie was on the Board who faffed around and sat on their hands gripped by inertia while a manager (Duffy) who was woefully out of his depth presided over one woeful result after another and effectively relegated us - ring any bells with the present situation?

So by all means continue your slavish allegiance to our £500k-a-year Board, but dinnae try and re-write history whatever you do...

I said be careful what you ask for, I didn't try to rewrite history. Out of nterest, how do you suggest we raise the money to get to the next level?

[sahib]

Which players? Ones that Hughes has signed or some of the 10 that he inherited who remain in the current squad?

And how do they exert this 'power'?

Prisactly.
How many players from the famous revolt are actually left. Hogg is the only one I can think of and he was a Collins favourite.
I am getting sick of people trotting this old chestnut out. "The players" are not a constant. Hibs will always have players but shockingly for some people here, they are often different people. Hibs have always had players certainly since I have been watching them (and even before this I am told) but they are not the same individuals now as they were then.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Some people want it all.

http://www.amysmusings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/freddie_mercury.jpg

Me, I'm just happy with this picture facility that comes with PM status. Worth the £10 on its' own.

[tamig]

Who is responsible for that? And who has failed to get this right man?

The job I refer to is getting things right off the park. I agree the next managerial appointment has to be right. It gets on my goat the stick some folk on here give the board. :bitchy:

What do you really want to see done then? Sack the board?

Jeez...

[sesoim]

There seem to be a lot of barrack room financiers emerging on the board at the moment. People with big talk of how the club should be doing better and highly critical of the board.

Shortly, I expect that pressure groups will be formed, and open letters will start to appear. The gist of the thing being that, with investment, the club can get themselves back where we belong.

What will be lacking is evidence of how that money can be raised and exactly what a realistic achievement for a Hibs team should be. With those criteria in place the fans will fall at the feet of any Duff and Gray, Kennedy, Romanov or Marr that comes along.

Time and time again, supporters overstep their mark as customers, and get it into their head that they know how to run a club. They don't, if they knew anything about money, they wouldn't be shelling out their hard earned on season tickets and tatty replica strips.

Money men regard supporters as small children. How else would you treat people who behave with the rationale of a 10 year old who wants to believe that Santa still exists?

Farmer is wanting to sell up Hibs, he has done a great job on the project and has the club in a sellable state. All he needs now is to sucker some mug into investing his lottery winnings or such into being the new Mr. Hibs.

We came close 12 years ago, and just about hounded STF out in favour of Brian Kennedy. At that time Tom still had things he wanted to do. Time moves on, things change, maybe this time he'll say "enough" when slabbering mobs gather outside the stand.

Take a look throughout football - starting in the west of the city, and see how many clubs rue the day their expectations outgrew their capabilities. Liverpool, Man Utd., Leeds United, to name but three.



I don't think this is an issue at the moment. The only thing anybody is calling for that I've spoken to is for Hughes to be sacked. There's nothing wrong with the money that is NOW being spent on the team. We just need a guy to get the best out of that money.

We saw with Mowbray that the crowds can quickly go up to 14,000+ if the team is playing fairly well. Without the need to sell players and replace them on the cheap, a good manager could do even better than Mowbray. Extra money from cup runs and European runs would follow.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't think this is an issue at the moment. The only thing anybody is calling for that I've spoken to is for Hughes to be sacked. There's nothing wrong with the money that is NOW being spent on the team. We just need a guy to get the best out of that money.

We saw with Mowbray that the crowds can quickly go up to 14,000+ if the team is playing fairly well. Without the need to sell players and replace them on the cheap, a good manager could do even better than Mowbray. Extra money from cup runs and European runs would follow.

Agreed, but there has been the odd post berating our "£500k board".

[PaulSmith]

Agreed, but there has been the odd post berating our "£500k board".

And perhaps now is the time to review that cost with all the infrastructure in place and the club on a 'rock solid financial footing'

They've most certainly done their bit but perhaps now it is time to look and compare against our peers in the SPL

[Phil D. Rolls]

Prove that he doesn't.

http://blogitlikeyoumeanit.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/santa_headstone.jpg?w=450

:boo hoo: