Teresa Lewis

[Betty Boop]

Teresa Lewis is to be executed in Virginia today. She has been found guilty of masterminding the double murder of her husband and stepson, even though she has the mental age of a twelve year old. Her two co-accused were given life sentences after firing the fatal shots. One of the co-accused has admitted he duped her in to believing he loved her, in order to gain insurance money. The Supreme Court have turned down her appeal against the death penalty. How can this be right ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bianca-jagger/i-urge-virginias-governor_b_736089.html

[IWasThere2016]

Teresa Lewis is to be executed in Virginia today. She has been found guilty of masterminding the double murder of her husband and stepson, even though she has the mental age of a twelve year old. Her two co-accused were given life sentences after firing the fatal shots. One of the co-accused has admitted he duped her in to believing he loved her, in order to gain insurance money. The Supreme Court have turned down her appeal against the death penalty. How can this be right ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bianca-jagger/i-urge-virginias-governor_b_736089.html

I am in favour of CP - in certain circumstances. This is not one - as the woman has an IQ of 70-72 - I think a beagle has an IQ in the 30s .. so IMHO that is not right.

[Jack]

Not meaning to demean this discussion but was the average IQ of folk who voted Bush jnr in not well below 100? If that’s the case then 'most' folk in the USA would have a excuse to get off with it.

While 72 isn't high and 12 isn't all that old, its bright enough and old enough to know not to go about killing folk.

[Future17]

Iran calling the execution "hypocrisy" - although I suppose method is a key factor in that debate.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/iran-seizes-on-us-decision-to-execute-woman-2085840.html

[Sylar]

The IQ test was administered prior to sentencing - she may well be "******ed" (to quote the article) or she may well have been advised by her lawyer to deliberately flunk. Wouldn't be the first time a defense has tried to use the "mentally unstable" argument. Hard to prove either way really.

It takes a specific type of evil to plan the murders of 2 people who should be amongst your most love, to collect insurance money on their deaths. This doesn't strike me as something a 12 year old could contemplate.

It is indeed strange that the 2 killers didn't get the same punishment, but in premeditation, falsification of insurance documents, fraud, perverting the course of justice, there are several punishable offences right there.

She also had planned the same act prior to this attempt, but the gunmen failed.

Perhaps she didn't pull the trigger, but she paid 2 men and bought the weapons. Her determination to see her husband and stepson dead seems pretty straightforward and hell mend her.

Not sure I agree with capital punishment, and I DO find it odd that the shooters are escaping with a lesser sentence, but if you're going to be stupid enough to plan and facilitate such a plan in a state where the death penalty is well known...

[Sylar]

Iran calling the execution "hypocrisy" - although I suppose method is a key factor in that debate.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/iran-seizes-on-us-decision-to-execute-woman-2085840.html

To be honest, it is a little bit.

The only difference being that death sentences in the USA are administered by a jury following a fair trial and have an appeals process.

[Sylar]

There is also precedent:

Plantz vs the State of Oklahama:

Plantz hired her teenage boyfriend Clifford Bryson and his friend William McKimble to kill her husband for about $300,000 in life insurance. Entering his home after work, he was ambushed by Bryson and McKimble and beaten with ball bats while Plantz and kids were asleep in bed. Plantz got up and instructed them to "burn him" to make it look like an accident. They drove him to deserted location, doused him and his pickup with gasoline and set it on fire. McKimble pled to Life and testified. Plantz and Bryson were tried jointly. Bryson was executed in 2000.

[EH6 Hibby]

Not meaning to demean this discussion but was the average IQ of folk who voted Bush jnr in not well below 100? If that’s the case then 'most' folk in the USA would have a excuse to get off with it.

While 72 isn't high and 12 isn't all that old, its bright enough and old enough to know not to go about killing folk.

I agree she probably should have known better, but how on Earth have the two guys that actually committed the murder escaped the Death Penalty? I think this woman deserves to be punished but I do not think she deserves the death penallty.

[Betty Boop]

The IQ test was administered prior to sentencing - she may well be "******ed" (to quote the article) or she may well have been advised by her lawyer to deliberately flunk. Wouldn't be the first time a defense has tried to use the "mentally unstable" argument. Hard to prove either way really.

It takes a specific type of evil to plan the murders of 2 people who should be amongst your most love, to collect insurance money on their deaths. This doesn't strike me as something a 12 year old could contemplate.

It is indeed strange that the 2 killers didn't get the same punishment, but in premeditation, falsification of insurance documents, fraud, perverting the course of justice, there are several punishable offences right there.

She also had planned the same act prior to this attempt, but the gunmen failed.

Perhaps she didn't pull the trigger, but she paid 2 men and bought the weapons. Her determination to see her husband and stepson dead seems pretty straightforward and hell mend her.

Not sure I agree with capital punishment, and I DO find it odd that the shooters are escaping with a lesser sentence, but if you're going to be stupid enough to plan and facilitate such a plan in a state where the death penalty is well known...

Her co-accused already admitted he coerced her in to committing the crime, surely that must be a mitigating factor. She absolutely deserves to be punished, but the death penalty ?

[Sylar]

Her co-accused already admitted he coerced her in to committing the crime, surely that must be a mitigating factor. She absolutely deserves to be punished, but the death penalty ?

I'm pretty much against it in all but the most extreme cases, so I agree it's a harsh punishment.

Was the co-accused one of the same gunmen who failed to kill her husband and stepson the first time around?

[Betty Boop]

I'm pretty much against it in all but the most extreme cases, so I agree it's a harsh punishment.

Was the co-accused one of the same gunmen who failed to kill her husband and stepson the first time around?

I've not read anything about that, I will go and have a wee look for any info.

[Sylar]

I've not read anything about that, I will go and have a wee look for any info.

I was beginning to think I had imagined it, but found this little snippet - doesn't really suggest anything conclusive:


In 2000, Teresa Wilson Bean met and subsequently married her second husband, Julian Lewis. Lewis had two adult sons from a previous marriage. In 2001, the eldest son, Jason, was killed in a car accident, after which Julian collected more than $200,000 in insurance. The second son also had a $250,000 life insurance policy. That’s the background.


"In the fall of 2002, Lewis met two young men while standing in line at Wal-Mart in Danville: Rodney L. Fuller and Matthew J. Shallenberger. They exchanged telephone numbers, and soon afterward Lewis began a sexual relationship with both men. Lewis and Shallenberger began to discuss the possibility that Shallenberger, with Fuller’s help, would kill Julian Lewis, and they would share the insurance proceeds.


Teresa Lewis gave the men $1,200, which they used to purchase two shotguns, another gun, and ammo. After an initial attempt to kill Julian Lewis while he was driving, Teresa Lewis, Shallenberger and Fuller decided to murder both Julian Lewis and his son Charles at their trailer in Pittsylvania County."


Interesting that Lewis' eldest son was killed in a car-crash which lead to a large insurance payout and then Teresa initially attempted to kill her husband "whilst he was driving".

Perhaps just a coincidence I guess.

[Betty Boop]

I was beginning to think I had imagined it, but found this little snippet - doesn't really suggest anything conclusive:



Interesting that Lewis' eldest son was killed in a car-crash which lead to a large insurance payout and then Teresa initially attempted to kill her husband "whilst he was driving".

Perhaps just a coincidence I guess.

More info here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/10/AR2010091002673.html

[bighairyfaeleith]

To be honest, it is a little bit.

The only difference being that death sentences in the USA are administered by a jury following a fair trial and have an appeals process.

is that not a little bit like lemmings:confused:

[bighairyfaeleith]

I was beginning to think I had imagined it, but found this little snippet - doesn't really suggest anything conclusive:



Interesting that Lewis' eldest son was killed in a car-crash which lead to a large insurance payout and then Teresa initially attempted to kill her husband "whilst he was driving".

Perhaps just a coincidence I guess.

genuine question, does it bother you the way these stories portray america, and given americas land of freedom etc etc, do you think that still applies?

Not criticising as I genuinely know very little about america(never been there) and my view is blinkered to the extreme so curious is all as I think america gets a pretty bad press over here, in fact in some ways it's a bit of a laughing stock. Is this wrong?

[Sylar]

genuine question, does it bother you the way these stories portray america, and given americas land of freedom etc etc, do you think that still applies?

Not criticising as I genuinely know very little about america(never been there) and my view is blinkered to the extreme so curious is all as I think america gets a pretty bad press over here, in fact in some ways it's a bit of a laughing stock. Is this wrong?

Lets be honest, these stories, regardless of country of origin, aren't going to portray any country in a good light, as it's stories about the worst angles of humanity. The death penalty is often portrayed as one of the more "backward" elements of American society - a throwback to Old Testament punishment if you will. Having said that

There are plenty of people/regions/politics/religious/etc stories in the USA which aren't going to be kind in its coverage - gun ownership is the most common one - but the thing is, that these stories which paint the country in a bad light, would paint ANY country poorly - it's hard not to create a negative impression when you're reporting on such dark material, but the grizzly murders and seedy underworld stories sell news.

Watch the news on CNN or Fox (if you can stomach it) and you'll see it cuts both ways. Sometimes it's quite interesting seeing international news coverage about your own country. I'll never forget the contrast in reporting when Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans - coverage in the UK was much more heightened than the USA, but the UK (specifically the BBC) chose to focus their coverage on a very unsympathetic struggle to get aid to those who needed it. It was critical in the extreme, whereas coverage in the US at the time was focussed on the humanitarian and environmental disaster which was impacting so many lives in the area.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Lets be honest, these stories, regardless of country of origin, aren't going to portray any country in a good light, as it's stories about the worst angles of humanity. The death penalty is often portrayed as one of the more "backward" elements of American society - a throwback to Old Testament punishment if you will. Having said that

There are plenty of people/regions/politics/religious/etc stories in the USA which aren't going to be kind in its coverage - gun ownership is the most common one - but the thing is, that these stories which paint the country in a bad light, would paint ANY country poorly - it's hard not to create a negative impression when you're reporting on such dark material, but the grizzly murders and seedy underworld stories sell news.

Watch the news on CNN or Fox (if you can stomach it) and you'll see it cuts both ways. Sometimes it's quite interesting seeing international news coverage about your own country. I'll never forget the contrast in reporting when Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans - coverage in the UK was much more heightened than the USA, but the UK (specifically the BBC) chose to focus their coverage on a very unsympathetic struggle to get aid to those who needed it. It was critical in the extreme, whereas coverage in the US at the time was focussed on the humanitarian and environmental disaster which was impacting so many lives in the area.

Thats interesting, I did feel a lot of news folks liked to portray bush in a very bad light and as you say above katrina would have just been another opportunity to pile pressure on him. I'm not a fan of bush by the way.

The very positive reporting around obama was almost enough to give you the boak though, if you believed everything in the news he was going to save the world, in fact jesus was going to be jealous of his achievements.

I'm not always sure why the news folks feel the need to do these things though, why not just let us make up our own minds, or are we really not capable of that:confused:

P.s. just seen on the bbc that she was killed last night.

[Hibs Class]

Her co-accused already admitted he coerced her in to committing the crime, surely that must be a mitigating factor. She absolutely deserves to be punished, but the death penalty ?


Whatever reasons there may have been for arguing against the death penalty I don't think the word of her accomplice (also convicted of murder, who committed suicide in prison and whose admission I believe was referred to in an affidavit based on a prison interview) is especially reliable.

[Betty Boop]

Whatever reasons there may have been for arguing against the death penalty I don't think the word of her accomplice (also convicted of murder, who committed suicide in prison and whose admission I believe was referred to in an affidavit based on a prison interview) is especially reliable.

Why not ? What did he have to gain out of admitting to being the mastermind, given that he had already been sentenced.

[Hibs Class]

Why not ? What did he have to gain out of admitting to being the mastermind, given that he had already been sentenced.


I don't think he had anything to lose or to gain. However he initially pled not guilty then changed his plea mid-trial, so is clearly not always honest. He made the relevant admission to a third party c. 2 years after the crime. Lewis's own lawyers descrie him as intelligent and manipulative so it could be he manipulated her or that through his admission he was manipulating the system. I agree he may (probably?)have been the ringleader, but equally I can see why the authorities may be reluctant to accept anything he says as relaible.

[Sir David Gray]

This is an absolutely appalling case and the Governer of Virginia, and everyone else who has been involved in sending this woman to the death chamber, should hang their collective heads in shame.

There is no doubt that someone who is guilty of a crime like this - and there's no doubting her guilt - deserves to be given a harsh punishment, but for this woman to be handed down a death sentence is just completely unacceptable to me.

Of course, I am completely opposed to capital punishment in all its forms, so of course I am going to say this. However, taking away the point about her low IQ, I just can't understand how you can justify executing someone who didn't physically murder anyone and give two people, who did commit murder in the same case, life sentences.

After reading bits and pieces on this case over the past few days, it would appear to me that this woman was genuinely remorseful for what she did and I just don't see what has been gained from executing her.

[John_the_angus_hibby]

I'm pretty much against it in all but the most extreme cases, so I agree it's a harsh punishment.

Who judges extreme? It is not a punishment suitable for a civilised culture. CP does not work as a preventitive measure, full stop. Therefore it is retribution. It is left over from the dark ages and is either mostly practiced in either totalitarian regimes or nations with a strong religious bias (I include the US in this).

I believe in life and hard labour. The removal of liberty as the ultimate sanction. I have read - we all have - too many cases of wrong imprisonment for me to be comefortable with, let alone the moral aspect.

Of course if I had a loved one murdered or raped I would feel different (thank goodness I have not). It would then be personal; but this is why we also have moved on from mob justice.

This case saddens me. It's a shame the debate is on the correct the level of IQ a prisoner should have to allow an execution to take place.

[Jack]

Who judges extreme? It is not a punishment suitable for a civilised culture. CP does not work as a preventitive measure, full stop. Therefore it is retribution. It is left over from the dark ages and is either mostly practiced in either totalitarian regimes or nations with a strong religious bias (I include the US in this).

I would say this isn't strictly speaking correct. It would appear from this Googled result that CP would work as a preventative measure in the cases where the murderer goes on to murder again.


Out of a sample of 164 paroled Georgia murderers, eight committed subsequent murders within seven years of release. A study of twenty Oregon murderers released on parole in 1979 found that one (i.e., five percent) had committed a subsequent homicide within five years of release. Another study found that of 11,404 persons originally convicted of "wilful homicide" and released during 1965 and 1974, 34 were returned to prison for commission of a subsequent criminal homicide during the first year alone. Granted Americans are a bunch of gun tottin' loonies.

IMO these figures are a bit scary. How many convicted murderers do we have walking the streets in the UK? From these figures around 3% will murder again within a year of being released and 5% within 5 years.

Even if its only one its one too many.

I suppose this is the other side of the coin from those who say executing one wrongly convicted is wrong, and I’ll not disagree with that. But what about the rights of all those who have been murdered by previously convicted murderers? There seems to be a lot more of them than I thought before I read this thread and produced this reply.