The true price of the new stand

[Spike Mandela]

What we witnessed today and suffered for the last few weeks is the true cost of the new stand.

News of the new stand was met with near universal rejoicing including a 70 odd page thread on this site but that novelty seems to have worn off pretty quickly.

The merits of the new stand have been discussed widely on here and can be justified if you are prepared to play the long game in waiting for team investment. However everyone who witnessed last years team collapse after Christmas could see the team needed huge improvement. All we got however was a rag tag bunch of ageing journeymen and second raters on short term deals.

Hibs are a big club in Scottish terms but can't afford to build new infrastructure and invest in the team with the standard required at the same time.

Yes you can argue Yogi could organise things better perhaps tactically but I honestly think we don't have the players to progress us at the moment.

The reaction after today's game is predictable and deserved but before shouting for Yogi's head or declaring relegation is looming ask yourself one thing, "Did you support the boards decision on the new stand?" Did you accept that Yogi would have less to spend on the team. Did you accept that the stand will bring rewards in the long term?

If the answer is yes then you have to accept we have to put up with dross like this for a few more years yet IMO. Frustrating as that may be.

[Big Frank]

yeah. its the stands fault.

[Spike Mandela]

Here's a tip, hide all the paracetamol and razorblades

It's sometimes hard to put what you are thinking into writing but you seem to have missed my point.

I agree with you all this depressing gnashing of teeth and raging at Yogi and the team has to be put into perspective of our current situation which is trying to fund a decent team on the back of majoor financial investment in a stand.

[ballengeich]

Now that we have the new stand (boo), how does our wage bill compare with ICT or Accies. Isn't that the basis on which we should work out how we should be performing relative to these teams?

[At The Edge]

We have a decent team, what we don't have is someone to prepare that team for 90 mins on matchday.
Out with the ugly sisters, we quite possibly have the best squad in the SPL, sadly it is not being used to its full potential, this is not the fault of the east stand

[crash]

What we witnessed today and suffered for the last few weeks is the true cost of the new stand.

News of the new stand was met with near universal rejoicing including a 70 odd page thread on this site but that novelty seems to have worn off pretty quickly.

The merits of the new stand have been discussed widely on here and can be justified if you are prepared to play the long game in waiting for team investment. However everyone who witnessed last years team collapse after Christmas could see the team needed huge improvement. All we got however was a rag tag bunch of ageing journeymen and second raters on short term deals.

Hibs are a big club in Scottish terms but can't afford to build new infrastructure and invest in the team with the standard required at the same time.

Yes you can argue Yogi could organise things better perhaps tactically but I honestly think we don't have the players to progress us at the moment.

The reaction after today's game is predictable and deserved but before shouting for Yogi's head or declaring relegation is looming ask yourself one thing, "Did you support the boards decision on the new stand?" Did you accept that Yogi would have less to spend on the team. Did you accept that the stand will bring rewards in the long term?

If the answer is yes then you have to accept we have to put up with dross like this for a few more years yet IMO. Frustrating as that may be.

Absolute BS. We have been a shambles for a lot longer than "the last few weeks". What was your excuse for last seasons garbage?

[Spike Mandela]

Now that we have the new stand (boo), how does our wage bill compare with ICT or Accies. Isn't that the basis on which we should work out how we should be performing relative to these teams?

On any given day any team in this league can beat any other. There are 4 points between 3rd and 12th in the league.

The investment I am talking about is signing players of the standard required to have us pushing for 3rd place over the course of a season. These players were not signed in the summer IMO.

[Spike Mandela]

Absolute BS. We have been a shambles for a lot longer than "the last few weeks". What was your excuse for last seasons garbage?

Why is it BS to say investment in a stand means less investment in the team? Yogi even said so himself often enough.

I am sure you agree as I said in my post that the team of last year needed massive improvement. I don't think it got what was required.

[Littlest Hobo]

We have a decent team, what we don't have is someone to prepare that team for 90 mins on matchday.
Out with the ugly sisters, we quite possibly have the best squad in the SPL, sadly it is not being used to its full potential, this is not the fault of the east stand


:faf::faf::faf:

[Atalanta]

I disagree completely. The stand was funded from one off transfer fees. You can't go and spend that money on a recurring basis by increasing the wage bill. I believe that the wage bill at Hibs is comparable if not better than all but the Old Firm and Hearts. The rubbish on the pitch is down to a combination of a poor manager, rubbish signings over the last few years and a couldn't care less attitude from several players.

[ronaldo7]

Why is it BS to say investment in a stand means less investment in the team? Yogi even said so himself often enough.

I am sure you agree as I said in my post that the team of last year needed massive improvement. I don't think it got what was required.

I believe the Managers wage budget for Players has increased in the last 3 seasons.

Lets not blame it on the infrastucture of the club.

[SneakersO'Toole]

We have a decent team, what we don't have is someone to prepare that team for 90 mins on matchday.
Out with the ugly sisters, we quite possibly have the best squad in the SPL, sadly it is not being used to its full potential, this is not the fault of the east stand

:agree:

The group of players we have just could and should be achieving more than it is currently.

The reason it isn't lies at the door of the manager. No question.

[Brads Laing]

yeah. its the stands fault.
:thumbsup: Blame the stand for the performance, the team and the tactics

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

one thing for sure is that when the new stand went up, the chairman surely did not anticipate it being less than half full on match days.

[Twa Cairpets]

On any given day any team in this league can beat any other. There are 4 points between 3rd and 12th in the league.

The investment I am talking about is signing players of the standard required to have us pushing for 3rd place over the course of a season. These players were not signed in the summer IMO.

On any given day any team in this league can beat any other. True.

But on most given days the current Hibs squad should be beating the opposition more frequently than we do.

Player for player, man for man, the Hibs squad is would hold its own against anyone outside the OF taken individually.

To blame the investment in the stand for the failings on the pitch is not so much a red herring but an entirely crimson shoal of the buggers.

[Saorsa]

We have a decent team, what we don't have is someone to prepare that team for 90 mins on matchday.
Out with the ugly sisters, we quite possibly have the best squad in the SPL, sadly it is not being used to its full potential, this is not the fault of the east standI would possibly debate that point but I agree what is without any shadow doubt is the squad we do have is way better than the performances/results we have been achieving and the fault for that lies squarely at the door of Hughes

[Sas_The_Hibby]

I'm getting really confused here. Earlier this evening I understood it was the fans' fault; now we're told it's the stand's fault.

When will we know the truth? :confused:

[jacomo]

I'm getting really confused here. Earlier this evening I understood it was the fans' fault; now we're told it's the stand's fault.

When will we know the truth? :confused:

Definitely not Yogi's fault, that's all you need to know. :rolleyes:

[Beefster]

It's sometimes hard to put what you are thinking into writing but you seem to have missed my point.

I agree with you all this depressing gnashing of teeth and raging at Yogi and the team has to be put into perspective of our current situation which is trying to fund a decent team on the back of majoor financial investment in a stand.

He's got a bigger budget than any Hibs manager since McLeish. Yet he's broken multiple records for failing to win games that Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins and Mixu couldn't break.

The new stand is a red herring in the context of how bad we are.

[BEEJ]

Player for player, man for man, the Hibs squad is would hold its own against anyone outside the OF taken individually.

To blame the investment in the stand for the failings on the pitch is not so much a red herring but an entirely crimson shoal of the buggers.
:agree:

Eloquently put. :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

:thumbsup: Blame the stand for the performance, the team and the tactics

Can you actually deny that if we hadn't buit the stand we would have had more money to spend on better players in key areas?

Yes Yogi is culpable for team and tactics but even he was honest enough his budget was affected by investment in the stand.

Some people's desire to blame Yogi for everything is blinding them to any other possible factors that have affected the team as well.

[Earl of Currie]

The club got very lucky with Mowbray , but the reality is that the club spends peanuts on the Manager and gets a poor manager and poor results as a result.

With the players budget available , particularly over the next few years , the Boards next big signing should be a good quality manager. To be honest , you could probably cap the players budget to get a better manager in.

A good manager will work wonders with the team he has , we have had poor managers who have done an average job with some good quality players.

[Spike Mandela]

On any given day any team in this league can beat any other. True.

But on most given days the current Hibs squad should be beating the opposition more frequently than we do.
Player for player, man for man, the Hibs squad is would hold its own against anyone outside the OF taken individually.

To blame the investment in the stand for the failings on the pitch is not so much a red herring but an entirely crimson shoal of the buggers.

This particular myth has been perpetuated for a long time and surely anyone with eyes can see this is not true?

Last year I would say our Riordan and Stokes were the envy of many teams and one of them has been sold to a competitor. The rest of them mostly are a bunch of journeymen and players living on the reputation of former glories. Notable exceptions to this being the likes of Bamba.

Time after time in the past year or longer teams have outfought, outpassed and ultimately outplayed our team. Our midfield must surely be the most powder puff in the SPL.Even the early half of last season was largely down to the exploits of Riordan and Stokes.

[new malkyhib]

The club got very lucky with Mowbray , but the reality is that the club spends peanuts on the Manager and gets a poor manager and poor results as a result.

With the players budget available , particularly over the next few years , the Boards next big signing should be a good quality manager. To be honest , you could probably cap the players budget to get a better manager in.

A good manager will work wonders with the team he has , we have had poor managers who have done an average job with some good quality players.

This Board will NEVER bring in a big-name, established manager. They always go for a novice or rookie who'll be grateful for the job - and if they've got a "Hibs connection" so much the better, because that'll help fool the fans.

We have to get rid of this present incumbent, he's only taking us in one direction, and he's fast becoming the Jambo's favourite Hibs' manager since Alex Miller... but when and not if Hughes goes, then a head should roll at boardroom level as well, as they're continually getting it wrong on the manager front.

A culling of numbers at boardroom level would also free up some money to appoint someone half-decent for a change - simple accountancy tells you that.

[hibiedude]

The whole point in building the new stand is to attract fans like me back to watch Hibs, surly if the product on the field is piss poor which it is under Yogi and getting worse then it must be money wasted.

No amount of time will help the manager improve because he lacks the basics and when the pressure gets to him he blames the fans for having high expectations but the new stand tells us the board have high expectations because if they don’t what was the point in building the new stand

[ahibby]

Certainly our midfield is a problem. The last two games we needed a midfield that could play through a team, playing over the top is pointless; although Nish can knock the ball down Riordan isn't the kind of player to be on hand to take a knock down. So we have to play through by passing on the ground or taking players on. Our midfield hasn't been up to itl. I think Zemama would make a difference as he can do both. Riordan has been playing in midfield for obvious reasons now imo, he isn't a front man but we need him on bcos he scores goals. We might do better away from home but I'm not holding my breath as St Mirren set up like the away team in Paisley. I don't know if a different manager could do any better under all the circumstances we face. Maybe the change needs to come higher up I mean who sanctions the purchases and the appointment of managers is it Scott Lindsay? Who is he anyway and what are his credentials?

[snooky]

Personally, I blame East Mains. We've been on a slide since it opened.
It's Easy Street for the players. Too many lounges, saunas, etc. Get them back to Pinkie training on a muddy pitch when a bitter east wind makes them work harder just to keep warm.

Aye, if you're looking for the guilty one, cherchez la farm. :wink:

:stirrer: :tin hat:

[lyonhibs]

What we witnessed yesterday, last week and for the majority of the past 8 months is the true price of having a humpty manager that can't motivate or organise a squad of players who, if properly deployed, are easily capable of challenging for 3rd.

I think the majority of our signings have been 6 month/1 year deals tops this summer (remember he was heavily backed last summer) because the board were rightfully wary of letting the club be lumbered with Yogi's signings if they were likely to be here longer than the man who signed them.

I - just guessing here - think that despite scraping into Europe by beating a Dundee United team with its mind on other things, like winning the Scottish Cup, the board recognised, by the quality of the product on the park post Parkhead victory that all was not well with Yogi. They can only have had this impression reinforced by our start this season, and have been appropriately cautious with giving too much money/leeway to the man at the helm of this troubled ship we call our football club.

The new stand has very, very little to do with it IMO.

[Davy Mac]

[QUOTE=Spike Mandela;2580346]What we witnessed today and suffered for the last few weeks is the true cost of the new stand.

News of the new stand was met with near universal rejoicing including a 70 odd page thread on this site but that novelty seems to have worn off pretty quickly.

The merits of the new stand have been discussed widely on here and can be justified if you are prepared to play the long game in waiting for team investment. However everyone who witnessed last years team collapse after Christmas could see the team needed huge improvement. All we got however was a rag tag bunch of ageing journeymen and second raters on short term deals.

Hibs are a big club in Scottish terms but can't afford to build new infrastructure and invest in the team with the standard required at the same time.

Yes you can argue Yogi could organise things better perhaps tactically but I honestly think we don't have the players to progress us at the moment.

The reaction after today's game is predictable and deserved but before shouting for Yogi's head or declaring relegation is looming ask yourself one thing, "Did you support the boards decision on the new stand?" Did you accept that Yogi would have less to spend on the team. Did you accept that the stand will bring rewards in the long term?

If the answer is yes then you have to accept we have to put up with dross like this for a few more years yet IMO. Frustrating as that may bE

We should be proud of our infrastructure, and quite rightly so, and most Hertz fans would probably agree if they were being honest.

I've always understood the reason we don't buy players we would like, is to do with the 'live within your means' rule, and I for one still support, so IMO it's nothing to do with the stand.

Leadership comes from the top and in this occassion it's the team management, clearly in Yogi, Mixu and Collins they were all low wage appointments desperate
to further their careers, although I support the wage structure I've always viewed the Hibs Manager's job to be a prize appointment in the Scottish game.

We seemed to have forgotten this and we seemed to have lowered our standards over the years to such an extent that we now have mediocrity within our club.

RP - GET RID NOW, canvass for a top three Manager NOW, surely there is a Manager out there who would love to manage our great club, the stadia, the training facilities, a family club located in a superb city lifestyle.

The stand? - The Board should be applauded.

Fitba Managerial Appointments? - Jury well and truly out.

[Phil D. Rolls]

It's sometimes hard to put what you are thinking into writing but you seem to have missed my point.

I agree with you all this depressing gnashing of teeth and raging at Yogi and the team has to be put into perspective of our current situation which is trying to fund a decent team on the back of majoor financial investment in a stand.

:agree: We will never have to spend this money again.

[The_Todd]

Player for player, we have a decent SPL squad.

Bamba, Dickoh, De Graaf (I refuse to believe a player can survive in the top flight of Dutch football and not be a good player), Riordan, Wotherspoon, Miller, McBride. These are individually good players.

So, if we have the personnel there's a problem somewhere else. Blaming the new East Stand is a little odd unless the players are so distraught by the loss of the old stand they can't concentrate...?

[Expecting Rain]

yeah. its the stands fault.

Last season the pitch got the blame.

[anon1]

It's hardly the stand's fault! If anything, having a new, bigger ground should fill everyone with optimism on what may be achieved with the greater resource at your disposal.

I'd instead focus on the style of football / lack of results presented as dragging things down at the minute. I remember watching Falkirk Vs Hearts a few years back at Falkirk with Hughes in charge & remember thinking... "Is this Hughes really reknowned for flowing football?" as everyone was making out at the time. All his team seemed to do was hoof it to head of their big lad up front (whose name escapes me) he's at St Mirren now?

Forest and Hibs have something in common it seems.. A chairman with a rubbish touch in the managerial transfer market! (before we got Billy Davies in of course!)
Add to all this the amazing decision to let Stokes go!! and replace him with a lower English league reject.
I look out for / follow Hibs out of the Edinburgh clubs, but I can only see a season of struggle ahead for you.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The stand had to be built and there was never going to be a good time to do it.

Having said that I always thought 5,500 would have been big enough. Never in my time have Hibs come near an average of 16,000 home fans. Still think the new stand is fantastic though.

Look at the players we have man for man up against any SPL club outwith the OF and we should be doing better than this.

Hart ..... A good player with Aberdeen & Championship experience.
Bamba .... Probably too good for the SPL apart from the odd lapse in concentration.
Hogg ... A mountain of SPL experience.
Murray .... Huge experience and has played in the Champions league.

Miller ... Played in the EPL for Utd and Sunderland
De Graff ... 10 years in Hollands top flight.
Wotherspoon .... Apparently one of Scotlands top prospects and the only player from a super under 19 team to break through.
Riordan .... Celtic wasted him, but any other SPL club would still bite yer hand off.

Nish .... Gooness knows how, but he has a scoring record that holds up against most SPL strikers.

Dont tell me with players like that we shouldnt be able to beat the likes of Hamilton & ICT etc at Easter Road.

If Yogi thinks the supporters are going to be willing to accept him saying that beating bottom six teams on a regular basis, especially at ER is too much to expect with players like that, then frankly he is out of touch. And if he thinks that under achievement like that is acceptable as manager of Hibs then I am afraid it is time for him to move on.

:bitchy:

[Joe Baker II]

News of the new stand was met with near universal rejoicing .

No it was not!

Agree with quite a lot of your post though