Youth policy. Do we still have one??

[Alfred E Newman]

With the latest signing of yet another obscure foriegn player whos credentials seem to be debateable , it beggars the question, what has happened to our so called "conveyer belt of talent" ?
Where are the young players knocking at the door of the 1st team? Given our state of the art facilities at East Mains I for one was expecting to see a continuation of our excellent reputation for bringing through good young players but as it stands now, we were bringing through more talent when we were training in the mud at Wardie.
The recent financial success of this club has been based on the rearing of our own players but we now seem to be treading the dangerous path of bringing in ageing foriegners.

[scoopyboy]

With the latest signing of yet another obscure foriegn player whos credentials seem to be debateable , it beggars the question, what has happened to our so called "conveyer belt of talent" ?
Where are the young players knocking at the door of the 1st team? Given our state of the art facilities at East Mains I for one was expecting to see a continuation of our excellent reputation for bringing through good young players but as it stands now, we were bringing through more talent when we were training in the mud at Wardie.
The recent financial success of this club has been based on the rearing of our own players but we now seem to be treading the dangerous path of bringing in ageing foriegners.

So do you think it was a backward move and we should revert to training in the mud at Wardie?

[Toaods]

I'd rather we progressed as a club and had a lot more players so I'm not too unhappy.

Was it not stresseed it is a training centre rather than an academy?

Must admit, I have no inclination to go there to see it, I just want it to improve the product on the pitch.

[hibs0666]

With the latest signing of yet another obscure foriegn player whos credentials seem to be debateable , it beggars the question, what has happened to our so called "conveyer belt of talent" ?
Where are the young players knocking at the door of the 1st team? Given our state of the art facilities at East Mains I for one was expecting to see a continuation of our excellent reputation for bringing through good young players but as it stands now, we were bringing through more talent when we were training in the mud at Wardie.
The recent financial success of this club has been based on the rearing of our own players but we now seem to be treading the dangerous path of bringing in ageing foriegners.

Hanlon, Wotherspoon, Galbraith, Stephens, Nish. :wink:

[Speedy]

Hanlon, Wotherspoon, Galbraith, Stephens, Nish. :wink:

:confused:

[bawheid]

Glad this thread has come along. We hadn't had a negative Hibs thread in at least 10 minutes.

[TRC]

I think we have Hanlon and Spoons playing in the first team. But i agree that a 31 old Lithuanian does not fit the bill of young exciting home grown talent however i think yogi has spotted a weakness and has addressed this. we only ever really played one team of youngsters under Blobby/Mowbary Brown, Thompson, Whittaker, O'Connor, Deeks. Teams before i.e under McLeish were journey men and players he thought could do the job then when Collins, Mixu came in they used players already at the club or brought in "players" (term used loosely). I think there is a good crop coming through why some are out on loan 6 IIRC so add that to Hanlon and spoons and that is 8 players still eligible for the Under-21's. Not so bad I think?

[Bostonhibby]

I think we still do, its a positive step to move some of these boys out on loan to help prepare them and test them for the next level, the time I will start to doubt is if we fail to give the likes of Byrne Booth and Welsh, to name but a few a run when they are fit to do so, what we can't have is the younger guys disappearing just because we have the loanee's or other seasoned older pro's in. I actually think Yogi has made some decent short term decisions about the younger guys, time will tell. I look at the signing of the likes of Stephens as a good indicator for the future here and like to think Galbraith is being managed through though his time has surely come.

What I will be watching is how well we do in the league and cup at the lower level going forward.

[Andy74]

We need experience right now and results right now. We've got a handul of home grown players just about ready to come in.

Never got the obsession with kids for the sake of it. A winning team would do me if they are all 40 year old Afghans or not.

[Bostonhibby]

So do you think it was a backward move and we should revert to training in the mud at Wardie?

:confused:Theres mud at Wardie?

[Irish_Steve]

:confused:Theres mud at Wardie?

Better than poo at Pinkie

[scoopyboy]

:confused:Theres mud at Wardie?

So the OP states.

[scoopyboy]

Better than poo at Pinkie

No poo at Pinkie since Hearts stopped training there

[BEEJ]

Never got the obsession with kids for the sake of it. A winning team would do me if they are all 40 year old Afghans or not.
I have this image of a team of ageing Taleban in the green and white, brandishing AK-47s at the ref when he gives a duff decision .....

... it just might be a winning formula! :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

So the OP states.

Thats it then, I blame Yogi......and the youth policy.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Hanlon, Wotherspoon, Galbraith, Stephens, Nish. :wink:

Emerson, Lake, Palmer :greengrin

[PeterboroHibee]

Think we have a fairly good youth policy, with Hanlon and Wotherspoon the current 2 standouts, but we also have a lot of other guys who seem to be in the process of moving up; Byrne, Moyes, Currie etc. We are also giving the chance to other youngsters such as Stephens and Galbraith.

Dont see why signing a guy whos 31 is a problem, if anything would rather have a better balance of ages, to have older, more experienced players to compliment the younger guys coming though.

[matty_f]

It took Rangers long enough to produce talent for their first team after they built Murray Park, so I think 2-3 seasons is maybe a bit optimistic to be seeing a vast difference.

However, we've got kids training at East Mains from a young age and over time we''ll be producing more and more good young players, IMHO.

We've seen Wotherspoon and Hanlon become first team players, McCormack probably could have done it if he'd screwed the nut rather than putting it on folk, while Booth, Welsh, Currie, Flynn, Moyes, Taggart, and Byrne are all in the position where they can get first team experience away from Easter Road with a view to preparing them for first team duties further down the line if they continue to improve.

Seems a fairly sensible strategy to me.

[500miles]

So we've got Wotherspoon in the team, 1st pick. Hanlon battling for a place as first pick. One Middlesborough player who's loan runs out with us when our current young left back is done getting a bit of experience in the lower league (it's no coincidence IMO), a young right back getting himself fit and back up to the pace of SPL football while making his mistakes at another team, the impressive Welsh being prepared for 1st team action in pre season, only to be struck down by injury. Furthermore, we have Kurtis Byrne, who at the start of last season many of the U19's regulars were saying "promising, but not ready yet", out on loan, playing competative football and scoring goals to return soon, along with Moyes getting competitive games, and Flynn the young goalkeeper.

The first half of this season mostly they will be playing competitively for other teams, the second half, they will be back to be used when it suits the team - not just thrown to the wolves, but still getting a bit of experience, and next season they can step in when a lot of contracts are up.

Seems to be a decent plan to me.

[Albion Hibs]

I think Hanlon is our best prospect out of the current bunch. Thereafter I think we can only judge the younger lads on what they show following there loans spells etc.

The reality is that we will never get a consistant level of youth coming through, we have to take the ones we can and "buy" in to make up what is ultimatly important - a winning team.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

As long as the players that come in are better than the ones we currently have, then I don't see an issue. Would like to see one or two of the youngsters getting an outing now and again, but the way we are playing just now, it is not the time to blood youngsters unless there is no other option.

[hibsboy90]

IMO its not all about bringing through exciting young scottish talent. By signing players like Galbraith, Stephens and that young welsh keeper (Grof could have fitted in here also), we are looking for exciting talent from over the UK, that we give a chance to, let progress and keep teaching them whilst giving game time.

Having a good crop of youngsters is not all about ones born within 30 miles, look at the ajax academy, or even Barca, Arsenal etc. They have exciting youngsters learning whilst getting a chance, and these guys have been spotted form all over.

I commented recently that I'd like to see more scottish, hibs developed talent on the park, but we had holes that needed plugged, instant buys fill these easier.

But after so many good years, we have a smaller crop than normal. But i have no doubt we will see more come again, this current crop only has 2 regulars, but others are on loan, to come back more ready for hibs and the SPL.

[Perspective]

I hope the board prioritise the youth set-up, because from what I've been told it's under-funded and as club policy we won't compete for the best young prospects (i.e. don't engage in youngster 'transfers' that require a fee).

It's the single most important area for clubs of our size and we need to build on the reputation we've earned.

Hanlon and Wotherspoon, for me, have the ability - no question. Whether Yogi's the man to get the best out of them remains to be seen - because I'm not convinced two quiet, apparently sensitive guys are motivated by constant and public barracking. I know it's his style and nothing personal, but surely those two would respond better to an arm round the shoulder.

If Booth brushes up on the defensive side of his game then he should make it but, sadly, don't see any of the fringe crop making it. Hope I'm proved wrong but people are clutching at straws with Kurtis Byrne.

[Diclonius]

Hanlon, Wotherspoon, Galbraith, Stephens, Nish. :wink:

You were doing well up until Nish - he's 29.

[Beefster]

For a club that relies on selling players, it seems that we've got an awful lot of players who have virtually no sell-on value. We won't be making a big sale next summer to keep us in profit.

[PaulSmith]

I hope the board prioritise the youth set-up, because from what I've been told it's under-funded and as club policy we won't compete for the best young prospects (i.e. don't engage in youngster 'transfers' that require a fee).

It's the single most important area for clubs of our size and we need to build on the reputation we've earned.

Hanlon and Wotherspoon, for me, have the ability - no question. Whether Yogi's the man to get the best out of them remains to be seen - because I'm not convinced two quiet, apparently sensitive guys are motivated by constant and public barracking. I know it's his style and nothing personal, but surely those two would respond better to an arm round the shoulder.

If Booth brushes up on the defensive side of his game then he should make it but, sadly, don't see any of the fringe crop making it. Hope I'm proved wrong but people are clutching at straws with Kurtis Byrne.

I certainly don't think that it's under funded (in fact the academy teams want for nothing) but Hibs do not pay 'fees' for anyone to come to ER. I think the feeling is that if you want to come to a club, get the best facilities and see your career progress come along but we'll not pay for you to do so.

[GloryGlory]

I think we are now finding out how short-sighted it was to get rid of the reserve league - IMO, except for truly exceptional talent, it is too much to ask a player to step up directly from the U19s to the frenetic hurly-burly that is the average SPL game and expect them to contribute consistently and well whilst continuing to learn their trade.

Hence the need to send players on loan to other teams and leagues to continue their physical and football development. These teams are now the surrogate reserve team for Hibs.

[The_Todd]

I think we are now finding out how short-sighted it was to get rid of the reserve league - IMO, except for truly exceptional talent, it is too much to ask a player to step up directly from the U19s to the frenetic hurly-burly that is the average SPL game and expect them to contribute consistently and well whilst continuing to learn their trade.

Hence the need to send players on loan to other teams and leagues to continue their physical and football development. These teams are now the surrogate reserve team for Hibs.


I agree. Once they've been successful with the U19s they have nowhere else to go to continue their education other than straight into the first team. If we as a country are to start on the long road back to success we need a return of the reserve setup or even a U21 league where they can develop further.

Unless we do this, Scottish youth players are not going to get any better and only beating Lichteinstien 2-1 will be the least of our worries.

[Golden Bear]

Why is is that in the SPL, we don't consider that youngsters are fully prepared for first team duties until they're approximately 24 years old?!

Yet in other countries age is not an issue. In other words if you're good enough then you're old enough.

:confused:

[jdships]

I agree. Once they've been successful with the U19s they have nowhere else to go to continue their education other than straight into the first team. If we as a country are to start on the long road back to success we need a return of the reserve setup or even a U21 league where they can develop further.

Unless we do this, Scottish youth players are not going to get any better and only beating Lichteinstien 2-1 will be the least of our worries.

:top marks
Why does a young lad become a pro footballer ?
To play football - end of !!
Not bounce games where there is virtually no contact but meaningful matches where there is a win bonus to be made anthree points for the club.
In my days the reserve fixture was played at the 1st teams opponents ground
i.e. If Hib's were playing Hamilton at ER the reserves would play at New Douglas Park same day..
Also at that time Hibs entered a 3XI in the East of Scotland League which ensured that at least 33 players were going to get a game come Saturday
Nothing frustrates a young player , no matter at what level or sport, more than not playing regularly .
I applaud JH for sending players out on loan while I despair of the narrow thinking of the SFA(clubs) in scrapping the Reserve Leagues.

:rolleyes:

[Exiled Hibby]

In the words of that English legend, Mr A Hansen "you win nothing with kids"

lets have more old guys. Anyone know how long Davy Weir's contract is for?

:greengrin:greengrin

[Golden Bear]

:top marks
Why does a young lad become a pro footballer ?
To play football - end of !!
Not bounce games where there is virtually no contact but meaningful matches where there is a win bonus to be made anthree points for the club.
In my days the reserve fixture was played at the 1st teams opponents ground
i.e. If Hib's were playing Hamilton at ER the reserves would play at New Douglas Park same day..
Also at that time Hibs entered a 3XI in the East of Scotland League which ensured that at least 33 players were going to get a game come Saturday
Nothing frustrates a young player , no matter at what level or sport, more than not playing regularly .
I applaud JH for sending players out on loan while I despair of the narrow thinking of the SFA(clubs) in scrapping the Reserve Leagues.

:rolleyes:

:agree:

I remember that. In fact I remember seeing a very young Peter Marinello playing for a Hibs 3rd team against Peebles Rovers at Whitestone Park.

[PeterboroHibee]

Why is is that in the SPL, we don't consider that youngsters are fully prepared for first team duties until they're approximately 24 years old?!

Yet in other countries age is not an issue. In other words if you're good enough then you're old enough.

:confused:

Is that really true? Plenty of SPL teams have youngsters either part of the first team or at least knocking on the door. Hibs for example have Wotherspoon, Hanlon and Galbraith (although he is more of an impact player atm). Would imagine a few more will at least start to make appearances this season.

Can think of plenty of other youngsters at SPL clubs, Forrest at Celtic, Goodwillie at United etc.

[Golden Bear]

Is that really true? Plenty of SPL teams have youngsters either part of the first team or at least knocking on the door. Hibs for example have Wotherspoon, Hanlon and Galbraith (although he is more of an impact player atm). Would imagine a few more will at least start to make appearances this season.

Can think of plenty of other youngsters at SPL clubs, Forrest at Celtic, Goodwillie at United etc.

I agree that there are a few players in or around the first team squad(s) but not many feature on a regular basis.

However, having said what I said, young Wotherspoon looks as though he would benefit from a spell out of the limelight as even at this stage of the season he looks a wee bit jaded.

[TowerHibs]

I stumbed across this today, very interesting article about the german youth system and their attitude towards youth
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE68E03420100915

[MyJo]

Unfortunately there is never going to be ready made replacements for the players we have reared and developed when they move on. Its a major step up to playing top level SPL football from under 19's and its a slow and steady process of having the players in and around the first team and gaining experience from training with the squad, the occasional subs appearance and more often than not going out on loan to a lower league team.

Right now we have Hanlon, Wotherspoon & Stevenson in the first team squad with Flynn, Moyes, McCann, Byrne, Currie, Welsh & Taggart all training with the first team and out on loan gaining experience while we have signed young players like Stephens & Galbraith from elsewhere.

Thats 12 players that are homegrown through our youth teams or signed at a young age with a view to developing them into top level players. Its going to take a few years to get all these players up to the standard required to hold down a place in the first team and until then we have to look at getting experienced players (or journeymen as some like to call them) who can come in and do a job for a year or two until the kids are pushing for a place (Trakys, Hart, Dickoh), quality players who have either lost thier way or havn't lived up to expectations elsewhere (Riordan, Stokes, Miller, Murray) or picking up better players of the teams below us (Rankin, Nish, Bamba).

The "conveyer belt of talent" is alive and well its just that a lot of hibs fans dont have any patience for the talent to develop into SPL quality players.

[basehibby]

With the latest signing of yet another obscure foriegn player whos credentials seem to be debateable , it beggars the question, what has happened to our so called "conveyer belt of talent" ?
Where are the young players knocking at the door of the 1st team? Given our state of the art facilities at East Mains I for one was expecting to see a continuation of our excellent reputation for bringing through good young players but as it stands now, we were bringing through more talent when we were training in the mud at Wardie.
The recent financial success of this club has been based on the rearing of our own players but we now seem to be treading the dangerous path of bringing in ageing foriegners.

What a stupid question - both Hanlon and Wotherspoon broke through to become first team regulars last term and this season we may well see Byrne, Booth, Taggart, Welsh and Currie get their chance - up to them if they take it. If Hibs managed to produce two first teamers every season then that would be a pretty good conveyor belt by anyones standards.

[s2hart]

I stumbed across this today, very interesting article about the german youth system and their attitude towards youth
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE68E03420100915

Good article, you've got to love the German efficiency!

Everyone could learn from them :agree:

[The_Todd]

Why is is that in the SPL, we don't consider that youngsters are fully prepared for first team duties until they're approximately 24 years old?!

Yet in other countries age is not an issue. In other words if you're good enough then you're old enough.

:confused:

While that may be true, there are only 11 places available in the team. When you have an entire U19 squad ready to make the step up they can't all just join the first team immediately. So where do the players get proper match time during this time? Kicking their heels in the stand on Saturday afternoon isn't going to help.

[Mickey Edwards]

Anyone know what happened to Horner and Bell from the youth setup ; remember their names in lights

[Golden Bear]

While that may be true, there are only 11 places available in the team. When you have an entire U19 squad ready to make the step up they can't all just join the first team immediately. So where do the players get proper match time during this time? Kicking their heels in the stand on Saturday afternoon isn't going to help.

This is when the Manager has got to earn his corn. He's got to look at his present playing resources, the emerging talent that is likely to break through in the forseeable future and then plug any likely gaps by making good use of the financial resources that are available.

[PaulSmith]

Anyone know what happened to Horner and Bell from the youth setup ; remember their names in lights

Horner still at the U19s and looks the most likely of the current crop. Bell has left the club andI'm sure is with Glenn Hoddles academy in Spain

[TrickyNicky]

I stumbed across this today, very interesting article about the german youth system and their attitude towards youth
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE68E03420100915

Good article, here's another one:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

[hibs0666]

Good article, you've got to love the German efficiency!

Everyone could learn from them :agree:

That also includes attitudes towards entertaining football, spectator facilities and relationships between club and supporters.

I love German fitba. :thumbsup:

[TowerHibs]

Good article, here's another one:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/writers/raphael_honigstein/07/01/germany.reinvention/index.html

Just shows you what is achievable with correct leadership, communication, coaching and most importantly patience!!!!

Took the german's 10 years to make their youth policy work. Some people on here expect things to click over night at both club and international level

[Alfred E Newman]

What a stupid question - both Hanlon and Wotherspoon broke through to become first team regulars last term and this season we may well see Byrne, Booth, Taggart, Welsh and Currie get their chance - up to them if they take it. If Hibs managed to produce two first teamers every season then that would be a pretty good conveyor belt by anyones standards.

How is it a stupid question? I look at the Hibs bench and very rarely see any youth players being given a chance to mix with the 1st team. Unfortunately living where I do, I do not get the oppertunity to watch the under19`s though as some posters who do have said , there are a few promising youngsters there which is good news.
What concerns me is the fact that Yogi prefers to bring in aging foriegn players of debatable abilty rather than play the likes of Hanlon or Byrne , who are not teenagers anymore, which suggests to me that either he does not rate them or they are not going to make it. Hanlon is now in his 3rd season and I would have expected him to have been a fixture in the side by now though, like Wotherspoon he tends to be played out of position which doesn`t help .
I can`t comment on the others you mention as I have never seen them play but if they are going to make it they should be knocking at the door for a game soon. Whether or not they get the chance is another matter.

[The_Todd]

This is when the Manager has got to earn his corn. He's got to look at his present playing resources, the emerging talent that is likely to break through in the forseeable future and then plug any likely gaps by making good use of the financial resources that are available.

This may be. But I think we have to look to get back to either a reserve league or U-21 league where our youngsters can continue to develop and get competitive game time.

There won't be any hard cash in Scottish football for a long time, if ever, and youth development is more important than ever - for both the health of the domestic game and the national team.

Even if some teams can't afford to operate one, if Hibs, Hearts, United, Aberdeen and the Bigots Green and the Bigots Blue have a 6 team reserve league it's better than nothing.

I just feel ditching reserve league football was a retrograde step with more long term harm than good.

[IberianHibernian]

Anyone know what happened to Horner and Bell from the youth setup ; remember their names in lightsBell plays for Jerez Industrial (3rd Division in Spain - a low level since there are 17 groups in 3rd Division which is really 4th level in Spain) - over half their players were signed from Hoddle`s football school ( where Rix is a coach ) .

[oconnors_strip]

Anyone know what happened to Horner and Bell from the youth setup ; remember their names in lights

http://www.glennhoddleacademy.com/fergus_bell_signs_up_with_gha.html