Progress?

[Expecting Rain]

Now that the dust has settled is it percieved by the majority of the Hibs support that the club is making progress.
Tough as it was to take it was inevitable from the day that Stokes was signed he was bought to sell in order for Hibs to finance their vision as a club.
The departure of our top scorer has enabled us to strengthen the squad, of course the jury will be out on all the new signings and this particular point is open to debate.
Loan signings this time around could suggest a bit of sensibility while we still try to shape the team to suit our needs and make us stronger in the future.

[Keith_M]

... he was bought to sell...

I thought he was bought simply to score goals!?!


If he was bought to sell, it doesn't seem that Hibs have done as well as they could in that department. The club that's done best out of all this is Celtc, replacing a 10 goal striker with a 23 goal striker and making in the region of 2.5M profit.

[patlowe]

I guess it depends what you regard as progress. It appears that professionally and infrastructurally, the club has come on leaps and bounds in the past 10 years. However, in that period the standard of football has suffered a typically inconsistent pattern of peaks and troughs which we show absolutely NO signs of changing any time soon.

Is this our natural position in the world or can we, with the right management and investment, make real, sustained progress on the park? I don't know but fans are becoming increasingly restless with the current status quo in which we find ourselves.

[Hibbyradge]

We are progressing.

Unfortunately, fans aren't bothered about the bigger picture. If we're not winning nearly every week, someone is to blame.

The board's plan is clearly to get the infrastructure in place, get the club on a sound financial footing and use that as the platform from which to build success.

As slow and frustrating as this process has been/is, I'm convinced it's the right way forward.

Just have a look around at all the clubs who are existing on a hand to mouth basis.

Clubs who are literally one court hearing away from extinction.

We're in a good place and, when change comes, as it inevitably will, we'll be able to capitalise.

I think. :greengrin

[Expecting Rain]

I thought he was bought simply to score goals!?!


If he was bought to sell, it doesn't seem that Hibs have done as well as they could in that department. The club that's done best out of all this is Celtc, replacing a 10 goal striker with a 23 goal striker and making in the region of 2.5M profit.

I`m only asking the question, we`ve already in the past lost Riordan, Killen and Caldwell to Celtic for virtually nothing and also if the rumors regarding his bab boy image are true perhaps we`re better off without him.

[Green_one]

Now that the dust has settled is it percieved by the majority of the Hibs support that the club is making progress.
Tough as it was to take it was inevitable from the day that Stokes was signed he was bought to sell in order for Hibs to finance their vision as a club.
The departure of our top scorer has enabled us to strengthen the squad, of course the jury will be out on all the new signings and this particular point is open to debate.
Loan signings this time around could suggest a bit of sensibility while we still try to shape the team to suit our needs and make us stronger in the future.

With only three games gone and having not seen the signings play I am not sure how anyone will define progress. We are currently down 3 points on last year and have lost our top goal scorer, the type we have seldom had and will not easily replace. So team progress - NO, unless you believe the new guys are gems but even then most are on loan. The manager - last year much hope - this year needing to deliver.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Not exactly on topic [ but not far off] but what irks me about the Stokes move, is that it hung around the message board all summer like a bad smell and then when it came off, it was like it took the Manager and the board by surprise. I could be cynical and say that this move was kept on ice until it was more or less clear that everyone that was either going to renew/buy an season ticket had done so, but by leaving it so late, we have painted ourselves into a corner by making no contingency for a decent replacement. I don't count Duffy on loan as a replacement cos I would not have bet against him coming in anyway, but it strikes me as bit odd, that we have brought in two centre-halves as replacement/cover for a player who then did not leave.

[Expecting Rain]

We are progressing.

Unfortunately, fans aren't bothered about the bigger picture. If we're not winning nearly every week, someone is to blame.

The board's plan is clearly to get the infrastructure in place, get the club on a sound financial footing and use that as the platform from which to build success.

As slow and frustrating as this process has been/is, I'm convinced it's the right way forward.

Just have a look around at all the clubs who are existing on a hand to mouth basis.

Clubs who are literally one court hearing away from extinction.

We're in a good place and, when change comes, as it inevitably will, we'll be able to capitalise.

I think. :greengrin

You know what for once i`m going to agree with you 100%.:greengrin

[BEEJ]

We are progressing.

Unfortunately, fans aren't bothered about the bigger picture. If we're not winning nearly every week, someone is to blame.
More to do with just four wins but twelve defeats in the last 19 SPL outings, I feel. :rolleyes:

This 'unrealistic expectations' argument is getting a bit tired now.

[ahibby]

I am happy with the signings because I feel that they aren't the mavericks we have with baggage (maybe I'm out of order saying that but there you go). Hopefully we have a team that will knuckle down that is work hard and concentrate. Hopefully now that Stokes has gone we will not be fielding players with transfers to bigger money totally dominating their minds. Hopefully we have players committed to Hibs for the mid term at least and who want to make a name for themselves.

[bobbyhibs1983]

More to do with just four wins but twelve defeats in the last 19 SPL outings, I feel. :rolleyes:

This 'unrealistic expectations' argument is getting a bit tired now.


I tihnk what annoys alot of people is we have sold our top scorer of last season to our rivals.Now if stokes went down south for that amount i think alot of people would want a lil more money but they say ok we got x amount of £'s for him and NOT HELPED our rivals.

On your points regarding the amounts of defeats, i think what borthers people is we tend to go down without a fight.Losing hurts but its 10 x worse if the player lack effort ,dont care, dont try.
I think the expectations of hibs fans is a team that tries and works hard, win the 1st ball, if you cant win that try hard to win the 2nd ball,

make simple passes,how many times recently have you seen a hibs player try a 1oyard pass and give the ball away?


We are told(sorry i ve not seen or been to east mains myself) that we have a fantastic training complex , witch alot of people on here have said great things about.Why does it seem the players are not inproving?

[hibby67]

Not exactly on topic [ but not far off] but what irks me about the Stokes move, is that it hung around the message board all summer like a bad smell and then when it came off, it was like it took the Manager and the board by surprise. I could be cynical and say that this move was kept on ice until it was more or less clear that everyone that was either going to renew/buy an season ticket had done so, but by leaving it so late, we have painted ourselves into a corner by making no contingency for a decent replacement. I don't count Duffy on loan as a replacement cos I would not have bet against him coming in anyway, but it strikes me as bit odd, that we have brought in two centre-halves as replacement/cover for a player who then did not leave.


do you think if stokes had been sold at the start of the transfer window it would stop anyone renewing thier season ticket i don't think so.

i no longer have a season ticket due to work commitments but when i did and i renewed it it was because i wanted to watch HIBS not any one player.
yes you want to see as many good players as you can but for me it was about supporting HIBS
regardles of who was in the team

[Scouse Hibee]

Progress, the bigger picture, financially sound, great stadium, the model others should follow, sensible, within our means, no massive debt...................................

Yes they all sound great and as I recite all of these positives to myself after ninety minutes on a Saturday (well sometimes) afternoon does this make me forget or excuse the football I have witnessed? Does it **** :grr:

A simple football supporter that's all I am. :greengrin

[Sir David Gray]

I don't believe that losing your top goalscorer from the previous season for peanuts, and then bringing in three players who will all be out of contract at some point over the next 12 months, can be described as making progress.

If you look at our current squad, there will be a massive rebuilding job for Hughes to do next summer.

Grounds-January
Duffy-Next summer
Dickoh-Next summer
Riordan-Next summer
Zemmama-Next summer
Miller-Next summer
Bamba-Next summer
Stack-Next summer
Smith-Next summer
Hogg-Next summer
Nish-Next summer
Rankin-Next summer
Thicot-Next summer
McBride-Next summer
Galbraith-Next summer

I'm pretty sure all of the above is correct, although I could have missed news about a player extending their contract so some of that might be wrong.

I think Grounds will go back to Middlesbrough, although he might end up staying with us for the full season. Duffy might end up signing a permanent contract if his loan spell is successful and Dickoh might stay with us beyond this season as well.

As for the players who were with us before this summer, I believe Miller, Zemmama and Bamba will all leave the club under freedom of contract next summer and Riordan may well go too.

I don't suppose too many people on here will be reaching for the rope or sharp objects if Nish, Rankin, Thicot and Hogg happen to leave in 12 months' time but with 15 first team players, in total, out of contract over the next year, it does leave Hughes with a massive job on his hands to try and build a team for next year and, subsequently, I don't see how anyone can judge whether or not we have achieved progress on the park.

[Davy Mac]

I don't believe that losing your top goalscorer from the previous season for peanuts, and then bringing in three players who will all be out of contract at some point over the next 12 months, can be described as making progress.

If you look at our current squad, there will be a massive rebuilding job for Hughes to do next summer.

Grounds-January
Duffy-Next summer
Dickoh-Next summer
Riordan-Next summer
Zemmama-Next summer
Miller-Next summer
Bamba-Next summer
Stack-Next summer
Smith-Next summer
Hogg-Next summer
Nish-Next summer
Rankin-Next summer
Thicot-Next summer
McBride-Next summer
Galbraith-Next summer

I'm pretty sure all of the above is correct, although I could have missed news about a player extending their contract so some of that might be wrong.

I think Grounds will go back to Middlesbrough, although he might end up staying with us for the full season. Duffy might end up signing a permanent contract if his loan spell is successful and Dickoh might stay with us beyond this season as well.

As for the players who were with us before this summer, I believe Miller, Zemmama and Bamba will all leave the club under freedom of contract next summer and Riordan may well go too.

I don't suppose too many people on here will be reaching for the rope or sharp objects if Nish, Rankin, Thicot and Hogg happen to leave in 12 months' time but with 15 first team players, in total, out of contract over the next year, it does leave Hughes with a massive job on his hands to try and build a team for next year and, subsequently, I don't see how anyone can judge whether or not we have achieved progress on the park.

Good and well thought out post.:agree:

Maybe preparing for a sale?

[BEEJ]

If you look at our current squad, there will be a massive rebuilding job for Hughes to do next summer.

Grounds-January
Duffy-Next summer
Dickoh-Next summer
Riordan-Next summer
Zemmama-Next summer
Miller-Next summer
Bamba-Next summer
Stack-Next summer
Smith-Next summer
Hogg-Next summer
Nish-Next summer
Rankin-Next summer
Thicot-Next summer
McBride-Next summer
Galbraith-Next summer

I'm pretty sure all of the above is correct, although I could have missed news about a player extending their contract so some of that might be wrong.

That list is correct as far as I know. You can also add Currie (Jan 2011), Welsh and Stevenson (June 2011) to that list as well.

A total of 18 out of the current 26 man first team squad (which excludes the six players out on loan). An unusually high proportion.

[alfie]

I would hope that with the transfer window out of the way that the Tache will start to address some of those that are out of contract next summer. I'm sure it will be with the same caveat as before that if any decent offer came in then they wouldn't reject it outright. That way we can extend the likes of Bamba (allegedly) so that if an offer were to come in we wouldn't be left out of pocket a la Riordan to Celtc last time.

Back to the OP, I think its too early to say if progress has been made. We have to see the replacements play, and see if anyone gets a contract extension. In a month or two we will be able to make a more reasoned response. However that is a rare thing on here :greengrin :hnet:

[Expecting Rain]

With only three games gone and having not seen the signings play I am not sure how anyone will define progress. We are currently down 3 points on last year and have lost our top goal scorer, the type we have seldom had and will not easily replace. So team progress - NO, unless you believe the new guys are gems but even then most are on loan. The manager - last year much hope - this year needing to deliver.

The new additions will make or break Yogi, obviously he is trying to strengthen positions he feels that he and a lot of the fans quite rightly percieve to be weak, i could understand if it is the case, Petrie not backing him in this transfer window with lots of cash, he`s done very little between the run in to last season and the start of this season to merit Petrie`s encouragement, there is also another window in January to consider and who knows perhaps a managerial change.
Stokes may prove to be a loss, that is also debatable,Killen came from nowhwere to top the scoring chart before yet incurring another injury, who is to say that Duffy won`t score goals in what is to be honest a pretty poor league, as usual i don`t really want to see Yogi getting the sack, especially at this moment in time but these guys he has brought in will have to do more than make up the numbers.

[smurf]

Excellent analysis from PatLowe. Also, with a completed stadium, training centre, reasonably small debt, few more than short term commitments in terms of player contracts is it job done Sir Tom?

[RIP]

By the start of next season we will be regularly fielding

Booth
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Welsh
Taggart
Stephens
Galbraith
With Smith and one or two others coming through the ranks

We will be reaping the rewards of the Training Centre with home grown players who give 100% and play for the jersey

Those players we have now (Bamba, Hart, De Graff, Miller, McBride) are just fillers until the young team come of age. They will all be away within 2 seasons

[Expecting Rain]

By the start of next season we will be regularly fielding

Booth
Wotherspoon
Hanlon
Welsh
Taggart
Stephens
Galbraith
With Smith and one or two others coming through the ranks

We will be reaping the rewards of the Training Centre with home grown players who give 100% and play for the jersey

Those players we have now (Bamba, Hart, De Graff, Miller, McBride) are just fillers until the young team come of age. They will all be away within 2 seasons
There`s been a lot of good posts on this subject, i agree on the fillers but i`d like to see us build a team around Liam Miller, he certainly knows how to play the game.

[Andy74]

I think the progress off the pitch can't be argued and it's not done for the sae of it, it's done to esnure the football side can be as competitive as it can be for the next however many years.

We have to take that into account when looking at progress on the pitch. Our main compeitors last year as it turned out are living beyond their means and still also have stadium issues to address.

If you look at league positions we had been steadily 6th for a few years, with a 4th place last year that we were all disappointed in.

So far this year we've played 3 games in the league and we have been poor in one of them. At a place we've always been poor.

Since then we've lost Stokes but I think we've strengthened where we need to apart from another big guy up front.

I'm not really bothered about the short term deals, if they work out the option will be there to sign them up, if they leave, and Grounds will, then we go about replacing them again within the budget. There are lots of footballers out there and the important thing is that our beudget is now geared to be able to get the right quality in.

Same goes with the players out of contract. We'll do our best on those we want to keep but if not we'll go and get others. That's football these days and not of our doing.

I find the reaction to the loans funny. we got abuse last year for not using them and now it's short term thinking. Typical of our 'supporters' to use anything they can to talk things down.

I'm not sure most Hibs fans are happy unless they have some 'cause' to be annoyed about.

[mjhibby]

I don't believe that losing your top goalscorer from the previous season for peanuts, and then bringing in three players who will all be out of contract at some point over the next 12 months, can be described as making progress.

If you look at our current squad, there will be a massive rebuilding job for Hughes to do next summer.

Grounds-January
Duffy-Next summer
Dickoh-Next summer
Riordan-Next summer
Zemmama-Next summer
Miller-Next summer
Bamba-Next summer
Stack-Next summer
Smith-Next summer
Hogg-Next summer
Nish-Next summer
Rankin-Next summer
Thicot-Next summer
McBride-Next summer
Galbraith-Next summer

I'm pretty sure all of the above is correct, although I could have missed news about a player extending their contract so some of that might be wrong.

I think Grounds will go back to Middlesbrough, although he might end up staying with us for the full season. Duffy might end up signing a permanent contract if his loan spell is successful and Dickoh might stay with us beyond this season as well.

As for the players who were with us before this summer, I believe Miller, Zemmama and Bamba will all leave the club under freedom of contract next summer and Riordan may well go too.

I don't suppose too many people on here will be reaching for the rope or sharp objects if Nish, Rankin, Thicot and Hogg happen to leave in 12 months' time but with 15 first team players, in total, out of contract over the next year, it does leave Hughes with a massive job on his hands to try and build a team for next year and, subsequently, I don't see how anyone can judge whether or not we have achieved progress on the park.

The fact that so many are into their last years of their contract is a big worry for me.Have hibs not offered the likes of miller,riordan and mcbride extentions if not then who is pulling the strings.Surely yogi would want to tie up those three players at least.You could be cynical and say both yogi and the board are hedging their bets as to what the future holds but should yogi leave the club his successor has one tricky job on his hands.Or if you are being positive a clean slate to start with and a whole team of his own to build.
The signings all look decent to me especially dickoh.Grounds looks just the right age and size we need in defence.Whether were playing well or not most of our goals we lose are from set pieces and not through teams opening us up.Stop that happening and then we could see more 1-0 and 2-1 wins.I hope yogi goes with bamba and dickoh at the back with grounds left back and has mcbride and murray in front of the back four.He can always change it during the game.My one worry is him not dropping hogg as he is captain but there is no point in getting in dickoh if you dont play him.He looks a bear of a guy and just the type of ch we have needed to play alongside bamba.
Quietly confident of the next few games and with none of the other teams outside the old firm setting the league alight then the good thing is we havent lost any ground.Indeed a mate of mine who was at the hertz utd game said that hertz were good for an hour,utd hopeless for that hour then hertz collapsed and were lucky to get a point.He also said if we reproduce our first hour performance against rangers we would beat both of them comfortably.Reason to be positive but still concerned at those coming to the end of their contracts.If we win our next two games things will look a lot brighter will they not.On the other hand if we dont.Hey lets be positive.Being a hibby has always been like this.

[James70]

It is easy to get paranoid about the current situation at the club and certainly there is justification for us to have serious concerns.

What we have to remember is that the club is bigger than any individual player or indeed group of players.

I prefer to look at where the club were 15-20 years ago and try to imagine where we might be in another 10-15 years. We are better placed than any other Scottish club outside Glasgow in terms of stadium and training facilities and with the right management team in place there is no telling what progress we might make on the park in years to come.

Yes, it has been a long painful process with only a few things to cheer us along the way and there may be more pain to come but we must now be close to the point where we can invest much more resources towards the team on the park. Hibs have under achieved massively for far too many years and it is time we started to establish ourselves as the third force in Scottish football.