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View Full Version : Dermot Desmond and the old firm to England, again.



Antifa Hibs
31-08-2010, 10:47 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8954996.stm
What a tit. Especially the bit about wage caps. We can't pay big wages anymore therefore they should be capped, desite us paying 10x as much in wages as the rest our of current rivals. Pr1ck!

lucky
31-08-2010, 10:55 AM
He is right Sky will decide if they are going to get to join. I am in favour of a UK wide league, it cant be any worse than the SPL. We never win anything in this league so an opportunity for Hibs to join another league with greater revenues would be attractive. As for Scotland I dont care, cheering on McGregor and co just does not appeal.

MrSmith
31-08-2010, 10:59 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8954996.stm

Why don't the rest of the SPL teams just resign and start fresh to rid oursleves of the bigot brothers???

the_ginger_hibee
31-08-2010, 11:08 AM
The motherwells of the world would go to the wall without the OF. Turkeys voting for Christmas and all that.

Sylar
31-08-2010, 11:15 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8954996.stm

Why don't the rest of the SPL teams just resign and start fresh to rid oursleves of the bigot brothers???

Easy - money.

Money is the very same reason Rangers and Celtic will never get into England - other clubs aren't going to vote for a reduction in television income, regardless to how small a proportion they would lose.

That, and most clubs down south have seen how the Old Firm behave when they travel, and would no doubt face extra costs, adding more police on match-days as "Scottish yobos" would not only drag their neanderthal religious views with them, but no doubt would want to be "hardcore" and fight with some English fans, dragging up ancient history in the name of some alcohol fuelled violent patriotism!

Vini1875
31-08-2010, 11:17 AM
Smoke and mirrors from this guy. He has the money to bring huge name players to celtc and turn them into a power house in Europe but he won't do it. Instead he pleads to Sky and the EPL to let them in so they can get some of the dough floating around down there. They just can't get it that no one wants them down south.

SlickShoes
31-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Smoke and mirrors from this guy. He has the money to bring huge name players to celtc and turn them into a power house in Europe but he won't do it. Instead he pleads to Sky and the EPL to let them in so they can get some of the dough floating around down there. They just can't get it that no one wants them down south.

Aye just looked him up and had no idea he was THAT rich, christ.

cockneymike
31-08-2010, 11:33 AM
I read an interesting article on this just last week (forget where, sorry) and the point was made, that why would sky be interested in the OF joining the EPL? People always say that they would add so much, yet if the OF are such value added why is it the scottish tv deal is so crap? It is pretty much worse than the championship.

If sky thought it was so good, surely they'd pay much more for it, or alternatively there would be more demand? The fact that there isn't that demand from tv companies, setanta went bust trying to build a tv company on the back of the OF for goodness sake, so I'm not sure, they're nearly as special as they think they are.

I recognise that OF V top 4 or 5 clubs in england would be interesting for a little while, but realistically how long that would initial interest last, especially when the OF fans suddenly realise that they don't have the money to be much beyond a top 6 or 7 club, and that the CL is a distant dream?

Hibs Class
31-08-2010, 12:08 PM
I'm constantly impressed at the OF's ability to find new ways to make the rest of Scottish football hate them with a renewed passion. Right now I couldn't hold either of them in any greater contempt, yet I know that I won't have to wait too long for further reasons to hate them even more.

Kaiser1962
31-08-2010, 12:17 PM
I beg to differ lucky as we have been listening to this "sky will decide" nonsense since David Murray started spouting it 15 years ago. i agree that I think a British league will happen but only after a major cull of the, in particular loss-making, clubs. I believe there will be a major change in this regard in the next ten years and any club which is fiscally reckless will be punished. But Sky wont decide what happens, FIFA will.


He is right Sky will decide if they are going to get to join. I am in favour of a UK wide league, it cant be any worse than the SPL. We never win anything in this league so an opportunity for Hibs to join another league with greater revenues would be attractive. As for Scotland I dont care, cheering on McGregor and co just does not appeal.

The_Todd
31-08-2010, 12:20 PM
The chief exec of the EPL said last time they bought it up: "No means no."

They just can't let it go. They're embarrasing themselves, frankly.

banarc7062
31-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Please, please don't go and leave us you Gods of Scottish Football. What would we do without you to save us and grant us the favour of a visit to our ground with your hoardes of **** and unwashed fans. Get tae F*** and leave us in peace :bye:

GordonHFC
31-08-2010, 12:55 PM
Surely if shabby was sacked for touting himself for other jobs then surely the SPL would be within their rights to kick those lepers out of the league for acting in a similar manner.

LeithBoozy
31-08-2010, 01:41 PM
Neither desirable or viable,widespread opposition, short shift. Just some of the words used before, what part of FO do the old-firm not understand? :agree:

Part/Time Supporter
31-08-2010, 09:38 PM
I read an interesting article on this just last week (forget where, sorry) and the point was made, that why would sky be interested in the OF joining the EPL? People always say that they would add so much, yet if the OF are such value added why is it the scottish tv deal is so crap? It is pretty much worse than the championship.

If sky thought it was so good, surely they'd pay much more for it, or alternatively there would be more demand? The fact that there isn't that demand from tv companies, setanta went bust trying to build a tv company on the back of the OF for goodness sake, so I'm not sure, they're nearly as special as they think they are.

I recognise that OF V top 4 or 5 clubs in england would be interesting for a little while, but realistically how long that would initial interest last, especially when the OF fans suddenly realise that they don't have the money to be much beyond a top 6 or 7 club, and that the CL is a distant dream?

Setanta were doing okay while they were just showing the SPL and other odds and sods. They went bust after they tried to compete with Sky and spent big money on EPL, FA Cup and England rights.

The ratings for SPL aren't that bad strangely enough, the problem is that it is a niche market in terms of driving subscriptions (which is the basis of a pay TV market). The elite events get the top dollar and everyone else pretty much has to take what's left.

Kaiser1962
01-09-2010, 07:12 AM
There should certainly be restrictions on debt but at what level? I would imagine DD is not proposing a wage cap in Scotland at the level of Kilmarnock or Inverness but at an amount that can only be afforded by Rangers or Celtic, thus retaining their advantage. DD is only looking at things like wage caps to even things up because Celtic can't afford to compete with the big boys and are losing out on signings. But its ok when they unsettle players by offering much bigger wages that other clubs in in Scotland. Hypocrite.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/8954996.stm
What a tit. Especially the bit about wage caps. We can't pay big wages anymore therefore they should be capped, desite us paying 10x as much in wages as the rest our of current rivals. Pr1ck!

Dashing Bob S
01-09-2010, 07:30 AM
I think its more likely that bigger clubs in smaller countries will decide to form their own league. There is nothing to be gained by established leagues letting them in, sharing TV money, European spots and causing bother with UEFA/FIFA, to say nothing of international considerations and the potential political ramifications.

However, the clubs in Scotland, Holland, Belgium and Scandinavia could circumvent this by forming their own premiership and championship, with a regional feeder system. This would also have appeal to English language broadcasters, with a viewing population of around 50 mill, it would be up there with the big four of Spain, Germany, England and France. Probably then we would have a South European league federation, and one for the smaller East European countries, bar Russia, which is big enough as a developing stand alone.

For something like to work, it would have to be association rather than select club-led or broadcast-led, (I think the money and corruption in the game means its pulling away from this slowly and towards more regulation and democracy) and sadly the SFA are nowhere near visionary enough and mired in petty self-interest.

It's a rational structure though; eight roughly similar sized leagues, five from the bigger nations, three being federations of smaller nations. They could then rationally split into European and Europa leagues.

pacorosssco
01-09-2010, 07:38 AM
I hate Celtic and Rangers . It is a disgrace the other clubs dont stand up to them.:grr:

They should be booted out the league and made to play themselves week in week out. They should show respect to the league they do play in.

It is well documented there is no money in Scottish football but that is the case in many leagues but they make the best of what they have. Without doubt attendances would rise if they left. Youth would rightly be given its chance and we would see a much more competitive league which in turn eventually would see increased revenue and tv money as well as a much better international side well unless that muppet levein is still in charge.

ABTOF
anyone but the old firm

Joe Baker II
01-09-2010, 11:24 AM
I think its more likely that bigger clubs in smaller countries will decide to form their own league. There is nothing to be gained by established leagues letting them in, sharing TV money, European spots and causing bother with UEFA/FIFA, to say nothing of international considerations and the potential political ramifications.

However, the clubs in Scotland, Holland, Belgium and Scandinavia could circumvent this by forming their own premiership and championship, with a regional feeder system. This would also have appeal to English language broadcasters, with a viewing population of around 50 mill, it would be up there with the big four of Spain, Germany, England and France. Probably then we would have a South European league federation, and one for the smaller East European countries, bar Russia, which is big enough as a developing stand alone.

For something like to work, it would have to be association rather than select club-led or broadcast-led, (I think the money and corruption in the game means its pulling away from this slowly and towards more regulation and democracy) and sadly the SFA are nowhere near visionary enough and mired in petty self-interest.

It's a rational structure though; eight roughly similar sized leagues, five from the bigger nations, three being federations of smaller nations. They could then rationally split into European and Europa leagues.

Totally agree and what you suggest has a lot of benefits albeit some disadvantages - rather like Scottish clubs joining English and Welsh league.

Interestingly I understand FIFA is close to giving the green light to the re(merger) of the Czech and Slovak leagues without affecting their international teams.

Joe Baker II
01-09-2010, 11:30 AM
Without doubt attendances would rise if they left. Youth would rightly be given its chance and we would see a much more competitive league which in turn eventually would see increased revenue and tv money as well as a much better international side well unless that muppet levein is still in charge.

ABTOF
anyone but the old firm

Except they will not be leaving Scotland, and given there would be even less coverage if OfF got more frequent games v Man U/Liverpool or in event of Atlantic/smaller country-type association Ajax/Porto etc I am mystifed where a sudden rise in attendances and tv money for the likes of Hibs would suddenly appear from, unless we joined them in such a league! in which case they are hardly leaving us!

And the recent Rangers game was one of Hibs best turn outs against the OF for a while despite kick off time and live coverage - did not get impression most fans there want the OF to play elsewhere.

StevieC
01-09-2010, 01:32 PM
And the recent Rangers game was one of Hibs best turn outs against the OF for a while despite kick off time and live coverage

Shiny new stand??


did not get impression most fans there want the OF to play elsewhere.

How many did you ask? You should speak to me and my mates sometime, it might leave a different impression.

pacorosssco
01-09-2010, 02:05 PM
Except they will not be leaving Scotland, and given there would be even less coverage if OfF got more frequent games v Man U/Liverpool or in event of Atlantic/smaller country-type association Ajax/Porto etc I am mystifed where a sudden rise in attendances and tv money for the likes of Hibs would suddenly appear from, unless we joined them in such a league! in which case they are hardly leaving us!

And the recent Rangers game was one of Hibs best turn outs against the OF for a while despite kick off time and live coverage - did not get impression most fans there want the OF to play elsewhere.

i dont think it is celtic or rangers choice to play in whatever league the wish. id rather they were left to play each other. Hibs have as much to benefit from playing down south and the exposure to increased revenue as them.

it is a complete disgrace the attitude they show the scottish league and i for one would like to see them told to shut up or resign from league.

I dont speak for the Hibs support but most Hibs and other scottish teams fans I know agree the benefit of them being expelled

There would be no overnight fix if they left but what benefits have we seen from them not leaving ten years ago?

What future would they have if kicked out league.?

It is time they were presented with this fact. If they have no league or european football they will finish and very quickly

We are a small country but a competitive league with young players being given a chance would I believe increase attendances. This can only benefit the future of the Scottish game

Look at hibs in first division as an example of attendance.

dangermouse
01-09-2010, 02:07 PM
Smoke and mirrors from this guy. He has the money to bring huge name players to celtc and turn them into a power house in Europe but he won't do it. Instead he pleads to Sky and the EPL to let them in so they can get some of the dough floating around down there. They just can't get it that no one wants them down south.

No one wants them up here either.

greenginger
01-09-2010, 02:58 PM
No one wants them up here either.



I think the English got a little sample of the self proclaimed "Best Fans in the World " at the pre season friendly at Lincoln or somewhere.

Pro IRA and terrorist songs and young army cadets being threatened and abused with the usual 30 odd arrests.
Usual Saturday performance by the Mhanks.

Dashing Bob S
01-09-2010, 03:13 PM
Tbh, I'm so disillusioned with Scottish football at the moment, and the powers that administer it, the biggest mystery now to me is not how the OF constantly go on about wanting to quit, but how Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and Dundee United remain deafeningly silent to the possibility.

I'd rather play in an Atlantic League Championship with the possibility of going into a Premiership that remain in the current straightjacket which offers us zero prospects in the long term.

I really believe that these clubs have to advance the case for reorganisation on a footballing basis. If they fail to advocate in this manner, then the same tired money-orientated agenda will continue to be set by the OF and ignored by England.

I'd like to see some of the clubs in the top leagues in Scotland, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, get together and admit that they are never going to be strong enough to win the European Cup again in their current leagues, as there isn't enough money in their domestic leagues. It's ridiculous that Ajax, for example, with their European pedigree are marginalised in this way. If those clubs stand together and combine leagues, smaller nation clubs would have a structure which gave ambitious and well-run clubs (not simply moneyed ones) a route to advance.

Personally, I'd love to see such a league(s) constituted along the lines of the Bundesliga rather than the EPL, but that's just my preference. That involves thinking about grass roots development and feeder leagues, rather than being broadcast led.

Keith_M
01-09-2010, 03:19 PM
DBS, I agree with what you said but can't help thinking that the SFA is too backward an organisation to make anything like this happen. It'd also be a case of Turkeys Voting for Christmas, as they'd no longer be in charge.

The system in the Netherlands, I believe, has a quite altruistic view of TV payouts. It's not based on the size of the club but on ensuring the league remains healthy and competitive. I can't see the OF being happy about playing under such circumstances.

pacorosssco
01-09-2010, 03:32 PM
Tbh, I'm so disillusioned with Scottish football at the moment, and the powers that administer it, the biggest mystery now to me is not how the OF constantly go on about wanting to quit, but how Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and Dundee United remain deafeningly silent to the possibility.

I'd rather play in an Atlantic League Championship with the possibility of going into a Premiership that remain in the current straightjacket which offers us zero prospects in the long term.

I really believe that these clubs have to advance the case for reorganisation on a footballing basis. If they fail to advocate in this manner, then the same tired money-orientated agenda will continue to be set by the OF and ignored by England.

I'd like to see some of the clubs in the top leagues in Scotland, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, get together and admit that they are never going to be strong enough to win the European Cup again in their current leagues, as there isn't enough money in their domestic leagues. It's ridiculous that Ajax, for example, with their European pedigree are marginalised in this way. If those clubs stand together and combine leagues, smaller nation clubs would have a structure which gave ambitious and well-run clubs (not simply moneyed ones) a route to advance.

Personally, I'd love to see such a league(s) constituted along the lines of the Bundesliga rather than the EPL, but that's just my preference. That involves thinking about grass roots development and feeder leagues, rather than being broadcast led.

Bundesliga is the model but Germany is a far bigger country than ours but compare lower teams in top flight in Germany with Wigan etc and they get a good 10k more support at games

If uefa weren't so corrupt there wouldn't be the current monopoly in european football. platini(horrible james blunt) is ensuring that the big teams remain just that and that there will be no more man city/chelsea scenarios where rich owners can buy in to private club

The current format of CL has ensured the smallest countries cannot get to the plate of the big bucks and I would argue that it should go back to being for League winners only.It could keep some sort of league format and semi/finals with top 2 from 2 leagues

The Europa should run on a similar basis and the money in each completion should be similar. Clubs should also have a debt to spending cap .

Sadly wont happen.

Still say Celtic and Rangers should be made to show more respect to the league we all play in and if they dont. Kick them out

pacorosssco
01-09-2010, 03:33 PM
DBS, I agree with what you said but can't help thinking that the SFA is too backward an organisation to make anything like this happen. It'd also be a case of Turkeys Voting for Christmas, as they'd no longer be in charge.

The system in the Netherlands, I believe, has a quite altruistic view of TV payouts. It's not based on the size of the club but on ensuring the league remains healthy and competitive. I can't see the OF being happy about playing under such circumstances.

The OF shouldnt get the choice.Here in problem lies. They dictate to rest of league,

Dashing Bob S
01-09-2010, 03:54 PM
The OF shouldnt get the choice.Here in problem lies. They dictate to rest of league,

The problem is with the other clubs, not the OF. They just try to advance their own interests. The other clubs never speak up on the state of the game, or come together to form any sort of view. Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and DU should have some sort of east coast forum to advance their interests, which are similar. All other Scottish clubs do is sit on their hands and wait for Rantic to say something, then decide whether to keep their heads down or give a mild tsk tsk.

It's not about reacting to everything they do or say. Its about standing up for your own collective interests the way the OF do. Hibs and Hearts administrators can barely bring themselves to acknowledge the others existence. If they did talk, they'd be asking themselves, 'does it suit two clubs from an international city like Edinburgh to be floundering in the backwater of Scottish football, when they could be having 500-3,800 football tourists coming into the city from the continent every week, instead of 200 from Motherwell or Paisley?'

JohnScott
01-09-2010, 04:52 PM
The problem is with the other clubs, not the OF. They just try to advance their own interests. The other clubs never speak up on the state of the game, or come together to form any sort of view. Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and DU should have some sort of east coast forum to advance their interests, which are similar. All other Scottish clubs do is sit on their hands and wait for Rantic to say something, then decide whether to keep their heads down or give a mild tsk tsk.

It's not about reacting to everything they do or say. Its about standing up for your own collective interests the way the OF do. Hibs and Hearts administrators can barely bring themselves to acknowledge the others existence. If they did talk, they'd be asking themselves, 'does it suit two clubs from an international city like Edinburgh to be floundering in the backwater of Scottish football, when they could be having 500-3,800 football tourists coming into the city from the continent every week, instead of 200 from Motherwell or Paisley?'

No offence but Maribor brought 40 or so fans to ER. Cheap Euro flights are harder to get nowadays and they'll soon be more expensive if they think fans will be travelling in decent numbers. So your estimate of 500 - 3,800 is a bit too optimistic IMHO. Personally I think it's time for a UK super-league with area leagues and play-offs. That way clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd and Motherwell could have a chance of reaching a lucrative play-off each season. The top teams in these leagues (Rangers, Celtic :wink:) could then progress to the Premiership. I'm sure most Championship clubs would enjoy a visit to Edinburgh. Something needs to change, that's for sure.

As for the Old Firm? What makes them think the vast majority of the Premiership wants them? I don't get their thinking on this!

pogo
01-09-2010, 06:57 PM
I have to admit to not getting this nonsense, but I can't for the life of me see any team from the Championship saying, "ah, the OF, yes, lets have them take our place in one of the most lucrative leagues in the world. No, no Mr Desmond and Mr Murray don't mention it, sure what would we do with all that money, when it can be put to such great use bringing the best fans in the world to our cities where they can interact with all our daughters and sons just like they have so often in the past"
This could also apply for any other league in Engerland. The only way I could ever see this happening would be if they came in at the lowest possible level, and even then regional league teams could also claim it's unfair.
The only other possibility would be to buy another team, and then scrap them, taking their place in whatever league the host team originally occupied.
The other nightmare scenario for the authorities would be, with so many teams in London, an old firm double against 2 London teams on the same weekend! Imagine the carnage!
Can't ever see it happening as an existing league format, would have to be an entirely new construction, and with Champions League, and Europa League already there, where do you find the time to fit in even more games?

Phil D. Rolls
01-09-2010, 07:14 PM
I read an interesting article on this just last week (forget where, sorry) and the point was made, that why would sky be interested in the OF joining the EPL? People always say that they would add so much, yet if the OF are such value added why is it the scottish tv deal is so crap? It is pretty much worse than the championship.

If sky thought it was so good, surely they'd pay much more for it, or alternatively there would be more demand? The fact that there isn't that demand from tv companies, setanta went bust trying to build a tv company on the back of the OF for goodness sake, so I'm not sure, they're nearly as special as they think they are.

I recognise that OF V top 4 or 5 clubs in england would be interesting for a little while, but realistically how long that would initial interest last, especially when the OF fans suddenly realise that they don't have the money to be much beyond a top 6 or 7 club, and that the CL is a distant dream?

Very good point, I think the Scottish media make a big deal about the 2most famous club game in the world" and all that. At the end of the day though who really cares about it outside the Scottish diaspora?

Particularly given the way that football at the top level is becoming so sanitised, does anyone need or want these knuckle draggers - who have won the same number of European trophies between them as Notts Forest - in their league.

They are big fish in a small pool, and would soon get eaten up once they left it. As it stands, they have never had to really compete for anything, as they are handed trophies just for showing up. How would their supporters deal with being nonentities in the big league?

The_Todd
01-09-2010, 08:08 PM
Let's go mental and say the EPL, EFL, SFA, EFA, FIFA and UEFA take a temporary leave of their senses and agree to this bizarre and unprecedented move where two clubs leave one national league and join another outside it's national boundaries.

Let's go even more mental and say in this example said two clubs get to join this foreign league pyramid at the top level instead of being made to earn promotion:

The Old Firm join the EPL. They need to play catch up to keep in the EPL, after all the other teams have had years of EPL money and have built big and capable squads.

In our exmple one of them spends itself into oblivion (let's call this anonymous out-of-its-depth Scottish club "the Blue Team") forking out transfer fees it cannot afford for overpriced and overrated duds from Eastern Europe. They finish 19th and get relegated.

The other (again, let's keep it anonymous - let's call them the Green and Grey Team) appoints a "Celtc-minded" manager and hoovers up the Eire international squad. After all, they're Celtc-minded, aren't they? The green grey team finish 18th. They get relegated.

The next year, The Blue Team vs MK Dons attracts 12,000 fans to Greyskull and The Green and Grey Team attracts 12,000 fans to Darkheid (despite spurious media reports of 80,000 away fans at some games) for a match against Doncaster Rovers.

Both Green and Blue teams slip into mediocrity and never trouble the top flight again leaving the EPL, EFA, EFL, SFA, UEFA and FIFA to wonder what all the fuss was about.

Sounds a stonking idea to me!

DH1875
01-09-2010, 08:48 PM
Let's go mental and say the EPL, EFL, SFA, EFA, FIFA and UEFA take a temporary leave of their senses and agree to this bizarre and unprecedented move where two clubs leave one national league and join another outside it's national boundaries.

Let's go even more mental and say in this example said two clubs get to join this foreign league pyramid at the top level instead of being made to earn promotion:

The Old Firm join the EPL. They need to play catch up to keep in the EPL, after all the other teams have had years of EPL money and have built big and capable squads.

In our exmple one of them spends itself into oblivion (let's call this anonymous out-of-its-depth Scottish club "the Blue Team") forking out transfer fees it cannot afford for overpriced and overrated duds from Eastern Europe. They finish 19th and get relegated.

The other (again, let's keep it anonymous - let's call them the Green and Grey Team) appoints a "Celtc-minded" manager and hoovers up the Eire international squad. After all, they're Celtc-minded, aren't they? The green grey team finish 18th. They get relegated.

The next year, The Blue Team vs MK Dons attracts 12,000 fans to Greyskull and The Green and Grey Team attracts 12,000 fans to Darkheid (despite spurious media reports of 80,000 away fans at some games) for a match against Doncaster Rovers.

Both Green and Blue teams slip into mediocrity and never trouble the top flight again leaving the EPL, EFA, EFL, SFA, UEFA and FIFA to wonder what all the fuss was about.

Sounds a stonking idea to me!

Sounds like a great idea but those bloody fools at the spl/sfa would be standing there with their arms open wide to welcome them back.

It will never happen. What do you think the likes of Leeds, Forest, Derby, Middelsbourgh and the Sheffield clubs would have to say? Never mind the bottom half of the EPL. Then they talk about the tv money. I know it's a lot but do you think the owners really care. Half the teams are owned by foriegn billionares and are only play things. Do you think the bloke who owns Man City really cares if the infirm join the epl or not. Even if sky do get involved who do the shame think they are. If sky go down that road they'd be as well saying we want an elite league and want Barca, Real, Inter, AC Milan etc... Then they'd turn around to he infirm and say sorry but you aint getting in. You no big/good enough.
Their attitude stinks. I've said on here before what gives them the right. We should jump ship and join the epl or even start in the championship. Think about what we could do with all the extra tv money, sponsorship and 30,000 sell out crowds every two weeks. You can't tell me the likes of Blackpool, Blackburn, Bolton, Stoke and West Brom are bigger than us. Then there's the players. Do you think the Likes of Fletcher would have left us to go to Burnley if we could match their wage and play in an equal or bigger league.

All I got to say is ****** the both of them and ****** what they stand for.

Dashing Bob S
01-09-2010, 09:52 PM
No offence but Maribor brought 40 or so fans to ER. Cheap Euro flights are harder to get nowadays and they'll soon be more expensive if they think fans will be travelling in decent numbers. So your estimate of 500 - 3,800 is a bit too optimistic IMHO. Personally I think it's time for a UK super-league with area leagues and play-offs. That way clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd and Motherwell could have a chance of reaching a lucrative play-off each season. The top teams in these leagues (Rangers, Celtic :wink:) could then progress to the Premiership. I'm sure most Championship clubs would enjoy a visit to Edinburgh. Something needs to change, that's for sure.

As for the Old Firm? What makes them think the vast majority of the Premiership wants them? I don't get their thinking on this!


No offense taken John, think you are correct about the flights, but i'd be more confident with short-hop distances like Scandinavia and Benelux holding up. There is also the trains and ferries option.

I think the problem with the UK League is that it falls into the same old undignified and unrealistic (Old Firm) trap of expecting England to be our salvation. Why would they do this? What's in it for them? Why shouldn't we try, as smaller nations, to chart on own course?

Antifa Hibs
01-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Instead of the teams moving, new leagues being formed, the SPL/SFA/SFL should get off there erses and sort this nonsense out.

A blind man could see the SPL is dying on its erse along with our national fitba team. They should get it sorted. Give us a national fitba team to be proud of again, give us an 18 team SPL 99% of the fans want, if it pisses off the chairmans of Killie, Motherwell and Dundee Utd, to hell with them. Sort out grass roots footy, get the feel good factor back and watch the bodies come back, which in turn should increase revenue blah de blah. Instead of cosying up and looking to England for inspiration, avoid them, its an evil. Look at other nations our size, places like Croatia, Czech, Solvakia, Serbia, Switzerland, Portugal, Austria etc etc etc and see how they do it, all these places no doubt who's footballing infrastructure will piss all over Scotlands in every possible way from kiddies footy all the way through to the top league and national team.

I can't blame the old firm for wanting to leave here. Everything from top to bottom in Scotland needs changed pronto.

southfieldshibby
02-09-2010, 07:02 AM
Rangers should play in Northern Ireland and Celtic should go and play in the Republic of Ireland.

It's where a huge portion of their respective fan bases are and it is clear from their songs that is where they would feel most at home.

Should we really be holding the "hostage" in Scotland for much longer?

:greengrin

modsquad
02-09-2010, 07:18 AM
Whilst this is more posturing from the OF, I can't help but feel Desmond has a point re capping wages.

The amount of money paid to some professional players these days is silly. If stories were to be believed YaYa Toure is on 220k per week, the likes of Rooney, Terry, Lampard etc on 100k plus per week. I'm sorry, what world do these people live in. yes football is a short career however someone at the top of their game could play in the EPL for 15 years (Steven Gerrard as an example). When he started, I know his salary would have been nowhere near the amount it is now but if we average it at about 40k per week over a 15 year term, thats earnings in excess of 30m pounds.

A salary cap like all major sports in the US and Rugby League is really what is required to prevent situations like Leeds, Cardiff, Southampton happening. Whether its a maximim weekly wage (say 20k) or a maximum annual wage bill, I don't know. Clubs would not be allowed to offer any other inducements. If they broke the rules, straight up 20 point penalty. The only other thing they could do would be to pay a maximum amount into a pension plan for the player that he can draw when his playing career ends. A 20k salary cap would mean an annual wage of just over a million pounds. Surely this is enough for them to live on? What do they do with earnings of over five million a year. Say I'm bored with the Ferrari, I'll get a Porsche this week, then next week they are bored with that so they go back to a Ferrari.

If you look back to the Denis Laws, Bobby Charltons & George Bests of this world. What sort of money would they be on now. The wages they got at the time would be no where near (even allowing for inflation) what professionals today earn.

Even mediocre players at the likes of Barnsley are earning 8-12k per week.

I'm sorry, football has gone mad.

As far as the OF and England are concerned, both sets of knuckledraggers have shown in recent trips down south that no one wants their political viewpoints and their misbehaving fans.

I don't know how we solve the current problem in the SPL, or if a 18 team league would really be that much better. The fundemental problem is more to do with the way youngsters are coached and what coaches look for when players are being given contracts. They don't really want small skillful players. They are looking for players with more of a physical stature.

Hibbyradge
02-09-2010, 07:18 AM
Everything has to change to move forward.

If a company stands still, it stagnates. It goes backwards.

Football is no different. Have a look at the ultra-conservative Scottish domestic scene for proof of that.

The money men in England (and across the globe) know this and change will come.

Your gues is as good as mine as to what these changes will look like, but there is already some support, in the right places, for the Old Firm to join EPL2.

Hooliganism and bigotry don't worry the money men.

Falling attendances and reductions in sponsorship does.

Hibbyradge
02-09-2010, 07:33 AM
Instead of the teams moving, new leagues being formed, the SPL/SFA/SFL should get off there erses and sort this nonsense out.

A blind man could see the SPL is dying on its erse along with our national fitba team. They should get it sorted. Give us a national fitba team to be proud of again, give us an 18 team SPL 99% of the fans want, if it pisses off the chairmans of Killie, Motherwell and Dundee Utd, to hell with them. Sort out grass roots footy, get the feel good factor back and watch the bodies come back, which in turn should increase revenue blah de blah. Instead of cosying up and looking to England for inspiration, avoid them, its an evil. Look at other nations our size, places like Croatia, Czech, Solvakia, Serbia, Switzerland, Portugal, Austria etc etc etc and see how they do it, all these places no doubt who's footballing infrastructure will piss all over Scotlands in every possible way from kiddies footy all the way through to the top league and national team.

I can't blame the old firm for wanting to leave here. Everything from top to bottom in Scotland needs changed pronto.

You've subscribed to the Daily Mail again, haven't you.

Sort out immigration.

Sort out teenage pregnancies.

Sort out scroungers.

Sort out hoodies.

Sort out Scottish football.

There, that feels better. :wink:

Hibs Class
02-09-2010, 07:56 AM
No offence but Maribor brought 40 or so fans to ER. Cheap Euro flights are harder to get nowadays and they'll soon be more expensive if they think fans will be travelling in decent numbers. So your estimate of 500 - 3,800 is a bit too optimistic IMHO. Personally I think it's time for a UK super-league with area leagues and play-offs. That way clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd and Motherwell could have a chance of reaching a lucrative play-off each season. The top teams in these leagues (Rangers, Celtic :wink:) could then progress to the Premiership. I'm sure most Championship clubs would enjoy a visit to Edinburgh. Something needs to change, that's for sure.

As for the Old Firm? What makes them think the vast majority of the Premiership wants them? I don't get their thinking on this!


I think it's classic psychology - if you tell a lie often enough it gradually becomes accepted as a truth. If England wanted them then England would have them by now. That they are still here tells its own story, and their tactics just reflect desperation and lack of imaginaton.

DCI Gene Hunt
02-09-2010, 09:30 AM
I wish they would go away and then that would be the end of it. :zzzzz!:

Of course the English would be bonkers to let that lot in. The sour-faced moaning, the endless conspiracy theories, the illogical and childish bigotry, the mindless violence, the cheating on the park...

Gene

Antifa Hibs
02-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Whilst this is more posturing from the OF, I can't help but feel Desmond has a point re capping wages.

The amount of money paid to some professional players these days is silly. If stories were to be believed YaYa Toure is on 220k per week, the likes of Rooney, Terry, Lampard etc on 100k plus per week. I'm sorry, what world do these people live in. yes football is a short career however someone at the top of their game could play in the EPL for 15 years (Steven Gerrard as an example). When he started, I know his salary would have been nowhere near the amount it is now but if we average it at about 40k per week over a 15 year term, thats earnings in excess of 30m pounds.

A salary cap like all major sports in the US and Rugby League is really what is required to prevent situations like Leeds, Cardiff, Southampton happening. Whether its a maximim weekly wage (say 20k) or a maximum annual wage bill, I don't know. Clubs would not be allowed to offer any other inducements. If they broke the rules, straight up 20 point penalty. The only other thing they could do would be to pay a maximum amount into a pension plan for the player that he can draw when his playing career ends. A 20k salary cap would mean an annual wage of just over a million pounds. Surely this is enough for them to live on? What do they do with earnings of over five million a year. Say I'm bored with the Ferrari, I'll get a Porsche this week, then next week they are bored with that so they go back to a Ferrari.

If you look back to the Denis Laws, Bobby Charltons & George Bests of this world. What sort of money would they be on now. The wages they got at the time would be no where near (even allowing for inflation) what professionals today earn.

Even mediocre players at the likes of Barnsley are earning 8-12k per week.

I'm sorry, football has gone mad.

As far as the OF and England are concerned, both sets of knuckledraggers have shown in recent trips down south that no one wants their political viewpoints and their misbehaving fans.

I don't know how we solve the current problem in the SPL, or if a 18 team league would really be that much better. The fundemental problem is more to do with the way youngsters are coached and what coaches look for when players are being given contracts. They don't really want small skillful players. They are looking for players with more of a physical stature.

I agree with wage caps/cuts. But Desmond wasn't complaining about wages being paid when he could match your Man Utd's and Liverpools.

Steve-O
02-09-2010, 10:32 AM
Living on the other side of the world, it makes me laugh how the Old Firm think they are so huge and that the Old Firm derby is the greatest game in the world. It is not even broadcast here and nobody gives a monkeys! Very occasionally there is a snippet on the sports news about it, but even this isn't usual.

As for Dermot, he fails to realise that if Sky really were calling the shots about all of this, why have they done the square root of f-all about it up until now?? Answer - THEY DON'T CARE.

Give it up Dermot, ya fud.

Phil D. Rolls
02-09-2010, 06:49 PM
I wish they would go away and then that would be the end of it. :zzzzz!:

Of course the English would be bonkers to let that lot in. The sour-faced moaning, the endless conspiracy theories, the illogical and childish bigotry, the mindless violence, the cheating on the park...

Gene

I'd have thought that sort of thing was your cup of tea Guv.

jdships
02-09-2010, 07:30 PM
When you look at the European countries leagues you find that the almost identical situation prevails as in Scotland.
The same few teams take the trophys year after year.
I spoke , a few months ago, wih a retired Exec from Sky Sport and he forecast it is only a matter of time until there will be two divisions of an European League . .
The money being pumped into EPL, Bundesliga ,Seria A et al would be channeled into those two European Divisions and the National Leagues would possibly revert to local TV company's . The revenue.then on offer will be controlled by how marketable the local product is .
Sounds feasible :greengrin
However should the OF , prior to this possibility,move to EPL and end up year in , year out finishing mid table ( which is probable / possible ) they would stand no chance of being "chosen" for the Euro Leagues.
They would then be back exactly where they started

Does my friends "take" make financial sense ? Or will the rich just get richer !!! :devil:

Part/Time Supporter
02-09-2010, 08:11 PM
When you look at the European countries leagues you find that the almost identical situation prevails as in Scotland.
The same few teams take the trophys year after year.
I spoke , a few months ago, wih a retired Exec from Sky Sport and he forecast it is only a matter of time until there will be two divisions of an European League . .
The money being pumped into EPL, Bundesliga ,Seria A et al would be channeled into those two European Divisions and the National Leagues would possibly revert to local TV company's . The revenue.then on offer will be controlled by how marketable the local product is .
Sounds feasible :greengrin
However should the OF , prior to this possibility,move to EPL and end up year in , year out finishing mid table ( which is probable / possible ) they would stand no chance of being "chosen" for the Euro Leagues.
They would then be back exactly where they started

Does my friends "take" make financial sense ? Or will the rich just get richer !!! :devil:

:agree:

The great quality of the English league always was that it was entirely conceivable for the "provincial" clubs from large towns or small cities (Burnley, Blackburn, Ipswich, Derby, Forest and so on) to win the national championship. Those clubs are now in the position of competing for no more than the right to get humped most weeks and take the fat cheque off Sky.

Sky are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. They will have to come up with something different in 10-20 years, before everyone gets bored of what they've done to football.

DCI Gene Hunt
03-09-2010, 06:37 AM
I'd have thought that sort of thing was your cup of tea Guv.

Only in the Police station, Filled Rolls. :wink:

Guv

Gatecrasher
03-09-2010, 06:48 AM
:agree:

The great quality of the English league always was that it was entirely conceivable for the "provincial" clubs from large towns or small cities (Burnley, Blackburn, Ipswich, Derby, Forest and so on) to win the national championship. Those clubs are now in the position of competing for no more than the right to get humped most weeks and take the fat cheque off Sky.

Sky are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. They will have to come up with something different in 10-20 years, before everyone gets bored of what they've done to football.


Before! its already starting - I listened to Kick off on Talk Sport last night it was a show dedicated to people who are sick of top flight football (including the man u, chelsea, liverpools of this world) and paying a more reasonable amount of money to have a better time watching their local team in the lower leagues - The Discussion started after Man U couldnt sell out their season tickets for the first time in so many years.

heretoday
03-09-2010, 08:21 AM
If the OF joined one of the English leagues - Div 1 on current form - there is the possibility that one of them might get either promoted or relegated out of that league.

You would then have a situation where there would be no OF game for at least a year unless they were drawn together in a cup competition.

I think that once the neanderthals take time to contemplate that scenario the English move might not seem so attractive.

down the slope
03-09-2010, 08:29 AM
Correct me if i'm wrong but when the OF brought this up a few months ago was it not their intention to keep a team of reserves in the SPL ?, unbelievable that they think they could get away with this which would just be a backstop in case things went tits up. If they go they go for ever.

DCI Gene Hunt
03-09-2010, 09:37 AM
Yes I remember that idea.

If they go, it's for good :bye:, and they should start at the lowest of the English leagues (like everyone else).

Or do the Bigot Bros. think they should get preferential treatment just because they are the Bigot Bros., and have enjoyed years of such treatment in Scotland? :rolleyes:

Gene