About These Expectations

[Speedway]

I've been thinking about this 'lower your expectations' thing from Yogi and I think I see where he's coming from.

Judging by the posters on here, a fair average would be to say that most started watching Hibs under Lexo.

Under Lexo, we were crap, most of the time. Won one cup in 10 years under him.

Under Jocky Scott and then Jim Duffy, we were worse.

Under Alex McLeish, we were good in the first division and then alright for half a season back in the SPL. Then we were crap again.

Under Sauzee, we were as bad as it gets.

Under Williamson, we were as dull as it gets.

Under Mowbray we were exciting but the online community both attacked the 'comedy' defending and poor signings whilst the prophets of doom dwelled on Saint Tony's inevitable departure.

Under Collins we won a cup and then were minging again

Under Tommy Craig, we were as bad as the Sauzee days.

Under Mixu, everyone can remember how happy we were then

Under Yogi, it's crap again, this time with players who look alright on paper.

So where exactly do these high expectations come from? Not from recent history that's for sure.

Maybe we confuse aspirations with expectations.

My expectations for Hibs are top six every season, quarter finals of cups every season and Europe more often than not. But when have we even achieved that under any manager/boardroom combo?

Yogi might have a point, just a shame he won't be around to justify the existing expectations.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

I've been thinking about this 'lower your expectations' thing from Yogi and I think I see where he's coming from.

Judging by the posters on here, a fair average would be to say that most started watching Hibs under Lexo.

Under Lexo, we were crap, most of the time. Won one cup in 10 years under him.

Under Jocky Scott and then Jim Duffy, we were worse.

Under Alex McLeish, we were good in the first division and then alright for half a season back in the SPL. Then we were crap again.

Under Sauzee, we were as bad as it gets.

Under Williamson, we were as dull as it gets.

Under Mowbray we were exciting but the online community both attacked the 'comedy' defending and poor signings whilst the prophets of doom dwelled on Saint Tony's inevitable departure.

Under Collins we won a cup and then were minging again

Under Tommy Craig, we were as bad as the Sauzee days.

Under Mixu, everyone can remember how happy we were then

Under Yogi, it's crap again, this time with players who look alright on paper.

So where exactly do these high expectations come from? Not from recent history that's for sure.

Maybe we confuse aspirations with expectations.

My expectations for Hibs are top six every season, quarter finals of cups every season and Europe more often than not. But when have we even achieved that under any manager/boardroom combo?

Yogi might have a point, just a shame he won't be around to justify the existing expectations.

That's why I'm glad we still have the cinema as an option :wink:

[Ireallywasthere]

We were good under Eddie Turnbull :agree:
I'm obviously one of the few that raises the average age of the posters on here :boo hoo:

[BEEJ]

My expectations for Hibs are top six every season, quarter finals of cups every season and Europe more often than not. But when have we even achieved that under any manager/boardroom combo?
Far too high. Stop being so presumptuous. :wink: I used to have those same expectations; but I learned my lesson under Mixu.

Now whatever meagre offerings the SPL and the refereeing fraternity are willing to throw in our direction by way of points here and there, I accept with 'umble gratitude.

No point venting one's spleen at dismal failure or getting emotional at the same ineptitude being repeated time after time after time. I am but a lowly Hibs supporter; a faceless wonder in the terracing of life. I know my place, I do.

Your obedient servant ... etc etc

[Just Jimmy]

Good post, and a reason I think Williamson gets an unfair deal sometimes. He took us to a cup final, we played bad eye watering stuff most of the time. However he brought in some of the best players I've seen at Hibs. Mowbray continued that, I feel now as a support we lack an identification to our squad.

these two teams were full of young scots, many who grew up supporting Hibs, now we have journeymen players who are not much better than average. I'd take two or three years of utter pish if we could have a team of young scots again.

get the lads in and the pish out.

[Beefster]

Under Alex McLeish, we were good in the first division and then alright for half a season back in the SPL. Then we were crap again.

McLeish gave us a decent first season in the SPL (including beating them 0-3 at PBS) and a 3rd place finish in our second season back in the SPL with a Scottish Cup final thrown in. We only started to look poor towards the end of his spell as manager.

I don't think your summaries of the Mowbray and Collins eras are particularly accurate either.

[Cabbage1875]

We'll just accept mediocrity forever then shall we?

In fact I wouldn't even call watching Hibs over the past 8 months 'mediocrity'. Since this is a family board I shall refrain.

[BEEJ]

We'll just accept mediocrity forever then shall we?

It's our destiny.

That and 'transition'.

[FitbaFolkKen]

Because we spent the last ten years or so building the infrastructure of the third biggest team in the country.No point having the facilities and being happy with hanging around mid table in the SPL.

We now have the facilities yet don't have the team to fulfil the potential that the club has, bear in mind that whenever anyone from the club talks about EM and the stadium it is the best outside of Glasgow....surely our aspirations on the pitch are the same and come directly from the club and where they tell us we are headed.

The club can't have it both ways, the fans expectations come from the club and pushing to be best of the rest is not out of our reach.

[Speedway]

We'll just accept mediocrity forever then shall we?

In fact I wouldn't even call watching Hibs over the past 8 months 'mediocrity'. Since this is a family board I shall refrain.

We have for 130-ish of the last 135 years.

[marinello59]

We'll just accept mediocrity forever then shall we?

In fact I wouldn't even call watching Hibs over the past 8 months 'mediocrity'. Since this is a family board I shall refrain.

That's not what the OP is saying.

[Green_one]

Thanks for reminding me of the terrible managers we have had :boo hoo:

I really do not get the 'we have aye been ****' arguement. I know we have been but that does not make it any easier. The law of averages say we should get a decent run every now and again.

The fact is we are somewhere in the top 5 of Scottish clubs (gates etc), so we should have a good chance of maintaining a top 6 place. We certainly pay top dollar to watch, being one of the most expensive clubs in the country. We have also produced some good players in recent years and should be reeping something from that. OK we now have a big stand and a training pitch.:yawn:

What do we get for all this support? Mediocraty. Should we accept it as our lot - NO. If you do that then you might as well go and spend Saturdays doing something cheaper and more pleasant (almost anything!!!). The Board should remember that little fact.

[Speedway]

McLeish gave us a decent first season in the SPL (including beating them 0-3 at PBS) and a 3rd place finish in our second season back in the SPL with a Scottish Cup final thrown in. We only started to look poor towards the end of his spell as manager.

I don't think your summaries of the Mowbray and Collins eras are particularly accurate either.
They are one and two line summaries, I wasn't going for concise analysis. My point being that in the internet age, no matter the manager, the directors or who the players have been 'Not good enough' 'Disgrace' 'Tactically cluesless' have been constant views online. When was it different?

Why do we think it ever will be different.


Because we spent the last ten years or so building the infrastructure of the third biggest team in the country.No point having the facilities and being happy with hanging around mid table in the SPL.

We now have the facilities yet don't have the team to fulfil the potential that the club has, bear in mind that whenever anyone from the club talks about EM and the stadium it is the best outside of Glasgow....surely our aspirations on the pitch are the same and come directly from the club and where they tell us we are headed.

The club can't have it both ways, the fans expectations come from the club and pushing to be best of the rest is not out of our reach.

Aspirations confused with expectations then?

And isn't your last line exactly what has been achieved under Yogi so far?

[sixtwo]

most managers in that poll were very much restricted with very limited budgets. JC won a cup and played attractive football under difficult circumstances. Mogga got a group of average players and young players with potential and taught them how to play the game well. He brought a lot of fans back to ER and personally I really enjoyed that period.

IMO Yogi has had more money to spend on wages than any other manager on that list. He has been able to sign ex premiership players like Stokes and Miller. He has players like deeks and murray who were on 'old firm' wages previously.

I don't expect to win the league or the scottish cup but the very least I want is to see us beat hearts!!!!! I don't think yogi has managed that yet has he?

[TornadoHibby]

Because we spent the last ten years or so building the infrastructure of the third biggest team in the country.No point having the facilities and being happy with hanging around mid table in the SPL.

We now have the facilities yet don't have the team to fulfil the potential that the club has, bear in mind that whenever anyone from the club talks about EM and the stadium it is the best outside of Glasgow....surely our aspirations on the pitch are the same and come directly from the club and where they tell us we are headed.

The club can't have it both ways, the fans expectations come from the club and pushing to be best of the rest is not out of our reach.

You've hit the nail right on the head there mate! :top marks

[Hibs On Tour]

I agree with everything you're saying but...

All through our period of financial recovery, we've been fed this line about 'gradual improvement' and that year-on-year more-and-more of our income will be able to be freed up for spending on the team. Now I realise and accept that certainly from Mowbray onwards our managers have been pretty well looked after and supported by the board in monetary terms for the team but I fail to see this 'gradual improvement' that we keep hearing about. You yourself seem to equate where we are now with where we were perhaps 15+ years ago. This 'spending on nothing but the team' doesn't ever seem to be coming...

Another aspect of this is that we keep reiterating to ourselves that we've been the best financially run club in Scotland for 10-15 years. Doesn't seem to have done or be doing us much good really in all honesty. The OF are it is generally agreed as poor as they have been probably for a generation yet we appear to be no closer to them despite them both having gone through the financial mill in that period. We've hardly left the yams floundering in our wake either have we? Aberdeen? Probably done better than us on the park throughout that period and the arabs won the cup as we know.

I'm not expecting the moon on a stick but I *DO* think we have a right to be expecting better by this stage in the proceedings. I certainly think we have a right to be expecting better than to sell our top scorer and replace him by an average journeyman striker with no great scoring record. That smacks of indifference by the manager/board to any kind of aspriations we may have of 'better'.

Just for once, based on what we're told I'd like us to tell any wayward want-any players to shut it, sit tight and play the next season out and then we'll let them leave for top dollar. Likewise I'd like us to just plain tell any teams that come calling for our top scorer to do one and come back and see us in another year once they've scored 20 more goals [assuming no release clauses obviously!]

I just want a wee bit 'more'... :rolleyes:

[Hainan Hibs]

Because we spent the last ten years or so building the infrastructure of the third biggest team in the country.No point having the facilities and being happy with hanging around mid table in the SPL.

We now have the facilities yet don't have the team to fulfil the potential that the club has, bear in mind that whenever anyone from the club talks about EM and the stadium it is the best outside of Glasgow....surely our aspirations on the pitch are the same and come directly from the club and where they tell us we are headed.

The club can't have it both ways, the fans expectations come from the club and pushing to be best of the rest is not out of our reach.

:agree: Spot on.

[matty_f]

I agree with everything you're saying but...

All through our period of financial recovery, we've been fed this line about 'gradual improvement' and that year-on-year more-and-more of our income will be able to be freed up for spending on the team. Now I realise and accept that certainly from Mowbray onwards our managers have been pretty well looked after and supported by the board in monetary terms for the team but I fail to see this 'gradual improvement' that we keep hearing about. You yourself seem to equate where we are now with where we were perhaps 15+ years ago. This 'spending on nothing but the team' doesn't ever seem to be coming...

Another aspect of this is that we keep reiterating to ourselves that we've been the best financially run club in Scotland for 10-15 years. Doesn't seem to have done or be doing us much good really in all honesty. The OF are it is generally agreed as poor as they have been probably for a generation yet we appear to be no closer to them despite them both having gone through the financial mill in that period. We've hardly left the yams floundering in our wake either have we? Aberdeen? Probably done better than us on the park throughout that period and the arabs won the cup as we know.

I'm not expecting the moon on a stick but I *DO* think we have a right to be expecting better by this stage in the proceedings. I certainly think we have a right to be expecting better than to sell our top scorer and replace him by an average journeyman striker with no great scoring record. That smacks of indifference by the manager/board to any kind of aspriations we may have of 'better'.

Just for once, based on what we're told I'd like us to tell any wayward want-any players to shut it, sit tight and play the next season out and then we'll let them leave for top dollar. Likewise I'd like us to just plain tell any teams that come calling for our top scorer to do one and come back and see us in another year once they've scored 20 more goals [assuming no release clauses obviously!]

I just want a wee bit 'more'... :rolleyes:

Good post.:agree:

[crash]

I've been thinking about this 'lower your expectations' thing from Yogi and I think I see where he's coming from.

Judging by the posters on here, a fair average would be to say that most started watching Hibs under Lexo.

Under Lexo, we were crap, most of the time. Won one cup in 10 years under him.

Under Jocky Scott and then Jim Duffy, we were worse.

Under Alex McLeish, we were good in the first division and then alright for half a season back in the SPL. Then we were crap again.

Under Sauzee, we were as bad as it gets.

Under Williamson, we were as dull as it gets.

Under Mowbray we were exciting but the online community both attacked the 'comedy' defending and poor signings whilst the prophets of doom dwelled on Saint Tony's inevitable departure.

Under Collins we won a cup and then were minging again

Under Tommy Craig, we were as bad as the Sauzee days.

Under Mixu, everyone can remember how happy we were then

Under Yogi, it's crap again, this time with players who look alright on paper.

So where exactly do these high expectations come from? Not from recent history that's for sure.

Maybe we confuse aspirations with expectations.

My expectations for Hibs are top six every season, quarter finals of cups every season and Europe more often than not. But when have we even achieved that under any manager/boardroom combo?

Yogi might have a point, just a shame he won't be around to justify the existing expectations.

Looking at that list, they were all cheap options, none of them had previously managed a club with anything like the history or expectations to be found at ER. Hibs make this mistake every time. The most important investment isn't the players, it is the manager, something successive boards have failed to grasp.

[Westie1875]

Most of us are reasonable in our expectations considering the resources we have.

I expect us to be challenging for top 4/5 every season without fail and progressing to at least q/f stages of the cups more often than not.

I expect us to try to play proper football and leave the long ball garbage for the real hoofers in our league

I expect us to make a good fist of the derby games and win some of them

I expect our players to show effort and fight to the last minute in every game regardless of who the opposition are

I expect the manager to lead by example, showing the fans, the club and his squad the respect he wants to be shown himself

I expect our club to stand up for itself and not bend over for the OF

None of the above is unrealistic, if Yogi thinks it is then I want to know why he thinks that and what he thinks our expectations should be?

[Hibi]

[QUOTE=Speedway;2562794]I've been thinking about this 'lower your expectations' thing from Yogi and I think I see where he's coming from.

I agree speedway although i think that spending money tends to increase expectations and the fact that we as supporters pay top dollar brings an expectation.

Also the fact that we have seen so many quality players come and go, can't think of another club who has brought in and then lost so much quality. I think that leaves fans with a feeling of "what if"!

[BEEJ]

Just for once, based on what we're told I'd like us to tell any wayward want-any players to shut it, sit tight and play the next season out and then we'll let them leave for top dollar. Likewise I'd like us to just plain tell any teams that come calling for our top scorer to do one and come back and see us in another year once they've scored 20 more goals [assuming no release clauses obviously!]
Like we did with Fletcher in January 09?

[Toaods]

but we are a massive club...that's why Darryl Duffy has signed for us on loan.

He says so on the official website...:wink:

[basehibby]

I agree with everything you're saying but...

All through our period of financial recovery, we've been fed this line about 'gradual improvement' and that year-on-year more-and-more of our income will be able to be freed up for spending on the team. Now I realise and accept that certainly from Mowbray onwards our managers have been pretty well looked after and supported by the board in monetary terms for the team but I fail to see this 'gradual improvement' that we keep hearing about. You yourself seem to equate where we are now with where we were perhaps 15+ years ago. This 'spending on nothing but the team' doesn't ever seem to be coming...

Another aspect of this is that we keep reiterating to ourselves that we've been the best financially run club in Scotland for 10-15 years. Doesn't seem to have done or be doing us much good really in all honesty. The OF are it is generally agreed as poor as they have been probably for a generation yet we appear to be no closer to them despite them both having gone through the financial mill in that period. We've hardly left the yams floundering in our wake either have we? Aberdeen? Probably done better than us on the park throughout that period and the arabs won the cup as we know.

I'm not expecting the moon on a stick but I *DO* think we have a right to be expecting better by this stage in the proceedings. I certainly think we have a right to be expecting better than to sell our top scorer and replace him by an average journeyman striker with no great scoring record. That smacks of indifference by the manager/board to any kind of aspriations we may have of 'better'.

Just for once, based on what we're told I'd like us to tell any wayward want-any players to shut it, sit tight and play the next season out and then we'll let them leave for top dollar. Likewise I'd like us to just plain tell any teams that come calling for our top scorer to do one and come back and see us in another year once they've scored 20 more goals [assuming no release clauses obviously!]

I just want a wee bit 'more'... :rolleyes:

I know how you feel - it's been a hard road to follow being a Hibby for almost as long as I can remember. Still - I can see progress - we DID manage to improve our league position last year despite an enormous end of season slump. New stand in place now at no doubt enormous cost and stadium complete but we're assured that the club's still in good shape financially. Surely now there CAN'T be anything left to spend money on but the team FFS!

Albeit I'd like to have seen a better fee paid I can actually see the sense in moving Stokes on if the squad is improved as a whole as a result. We seem to have signed a good quality Centre Half going by the latest news - if Bamba stays as well then that'll be a big step in the right direction IMO. I'll watch the next 24hrs with great interest. A good defensive midfielder and a nippy winger in the door and I'll be looking forward to the season with refreshed vigour and anticipation.

[Hibs On Tour]

Like we did with Fletcher in January 09?

No quite the same...

There IIRC were none of the almost resigning ourselves to losing him during that window, none of the manager saying he was dying to leave, no rumours of release clause amounts triggering the bids - all in all it seemed far more on our terms with Fletcher than it does with Stokes. Plus that was in the Jan window and not the Aug one [small difference but a reasonable one nontheless].

What about the rest of my post? No answers on a postcard for that side of things as opposed to just the transferring of one of our main strikers?

[Davy Mac]

Actually, apart from the famous five and Turnbull's tornadoes where do we get this 'play the Hibs way' from.

I've never seen it in my lifetime, all I've seen is constant disappointments at East Fife, Hampden 79, Hampden 85, Parkhead final, Livi final, DUtd semi, Ayr semi, firkin Hertz semi the list goes on and on.

It's myth i tell you it's a myth this champagne fitba stuff that Hibs supposely play.

[Hibs On Tour]

A good defensive midfielder and a nippy winger in the door and I'll be looking forward to the season with refreshed vigour and anticipation.

If Stokes goes, we need a goalscorer to replace him. Simple as. Anything less just won't cut it. Take half of the goals from AS/DR away from last season and we wouldn't be top 6 I'll bet. Massive difference. Not like DR will score double his total from last year to make up the shortfall is it...

[FitbaFolkKen]

Aspirations confused with expectations then?

And isn't your last line exactly what has been achieved under Yogi so far?

I don't think so, the club have aspirations in that they are ambitious and want success. We have expectations based on what the club tells us, if they constantly go on about the quality of facilities then the product on the park would be expected to fit the surroundings.

And no, finishing fourth is not best of the rest.

[monktonharp]

I know how you feel - it's been a hard road to follow being a Hibby for almost as long as I can remember. Still - I can see progress - we DID manage to improve our league position last year despite an enormous end of season slump. New stand in place now at no doubt enormous cost and stadium complete but we're assured that the club's still in good shape financially. Surely now there CAN'T be anything left to spend money on but the team FFS!

Albeit I'd like to have seen a better fee paid I can actually see the sense in moving Stokes on if the squad is improved as a whole as a result. We seem to have signed a good quality Centre Half going by the latest news - if Bamba stays as well then that'll be a big step in the right direction IMO. I'll watch the next 24hrs with great interest. A good defensive midfielder and a nippy winger in the door and I'll be looking forward to the season with refreshed vigour and anticipation.I wish I had some of your vinegar,where do you get it

[ScottB]

I think at the moment we are seeing rising frustration among the support, for years we've been hearing about investing in the infrastructure, and now that the last of it is finished (even though it's just been finished) all that pent up frustration has been released and people want to see increased spending. Toss in our top striker waltzing off for peanuts and one or two other top players heading for the door with some less than stellar sounding replacements coming in and thats the result we are gonna get.

But that is the reality that we will be expecting in the coming seasons (quite rightly), that is to say that the club start to invest in better players, perhaps even paying fees and establishing ourselves as the regular holders of third spot. If not then what was the point going through all the pain of the last ten years while the clubs around us have p!ssed money up the wall and racked up huge debts while finishing above us?

The anger / frustration will remain until we start to see some tangible results, ie our players actually appearing to be fitter than the opposition thanks to our state of the art training centre, us being able to bid for players / bring in real quality and us regularly out performing our rivals.

[Speedway]

I don't think so, the club have aspirations in that they are ambitious and want success. We have expectations based on what the club tells us, if they constantly go on about the quality of facilities then the product on the park would be expected to fit the surroundings.

And no, finishing fourth is not best of the rest.

You said 'pushing' to be the best of the rest.

[Kaiser1962]

McLeish was also given licence to spend money like no other manager before or since and we were pretty close to being in big trouble....again!


McLeish gave us a decent first season in the SPL (including beating them 0-3 at PBS) and a 3rd place finish in our second season back in the SPL with a Scottish Cup final thrown in. We only started to look poor towards the end of his spell as manager.

I don't think your summaries of the Mowbray and Collins eras are particularly accurate either.

[Septimus]

It was easy to support Hibs when I was young because they were winning league titles and I don't mean second division titles. Since then it has been a steady downward spiral which, it has to be said, is mirrored in every "top" club in Scotland.

Now I have no expectations except that I would like to see a Hibs team that actually looked as though, collectively, it cared. My sympathies lie with Yogi when he implies that four or five of the players were not really trying against St.Mirren. So, Yogi, you know who they are and it is up to you to get them caring or out the door.

I would rather recruit a team from the young boys that we have who really want to suceed in the game than from a bunch of no hopers who have failed everywhere they have played. We are wasting time and money trying continually to plug the gaps rather than going back to the foundations and building from there.

[Antifa Hibs]

When we've taken in £10m+ and spent a big fat ZERO on players people get pissed off and expect more.

When we've got a stadium and training centre that rivals anything and we're getting gubbed of the likes of Hamilton people are pissed off.

When you spend £30+ to go to Paisley and your team (Who's wage bill and turnover will be 5x that of St Mirren) can't hit a shot on target, we expect more.

When your paying £405 for a season ticket and have witnessed 6 hammerings on the trot, we expect more.

When the board give us the same pish at April/May about how we need you, your important so we can build the team blah blah *** blah, they then sell a player or two for a few quid and replace them with freebies, we expect more.

No-one is expecting us to finish 1st, win the Scottish every season, even finish 3rd. But at the same time I am expecting us to not get hammered away to st Johnstone, conceed 6 goals at New Douglas Park, witness 6 defeats on the trot at home etc etc.

[jacomo]

Up until January this year, Yogi's favourite mantra was that Hibs were "miles away" from where he wanted them to be.

What does that do, if not raise expectations that the team will improve?

Now, seemingly, the fans are being unrealistic??

This manager talks an awful lot of pish.

[ahibby]

Ah Speedway you intentionally bring out all that has been bad about Hibs and as Beefster says you miss positives such as being a whisker away from beating Athens. Which would likely have seen us reach the qf of the UEFA if we had.

Never mind though you need to ignore things like finishing 3rd twice in those periods and beating a fellow SPL club 5-1 at Hampden in a major cup competition final. Yes okay you gave it a brief mention but you had too in order to get your point over. Maybe peoples expectations come from the tens of millions of pounds that Hibs have brought in from property and player sales, maybe. Maybe peoples expectations come from knowing the potential fan base that the club has but fails to capitalise on. The clubs motto should be 'Money is more important than results', and that falls below our expectations.

[ahibby]

Now I have no expectations except that I would like to see a Hibs team that actually looked as though, collectively, it cared. My sympathies lie with Yogi when he implies that four or five of the players were not really trying against St.Mirren. So, Yogi, you know who they are and it is up to you to get them caring or out the door.

I would rather recruit a team from the young boys that we have who really want to suceed in the game than from a bunch of no hopers who have failed everywhere they have played. We are wasting time and money trying continually to plug the gaps rather than going back to the foundations and building from there.

IMO they didn't perform because of the Stokes situation. If he had been left out of the squad I'm sure they would have been more focused. On the other hand Yogi might have been slated for not playing our highest scorer and Celtic would have been given the message 'he is all yours'. Something that the Hibs board didn't want at that time.