Mental health- The secret shame

[Pretty Boy]

Did you know that......

Due to post traumatic stress disorder, more soldiers have commited suicide since the Falklands War than were killed in the conflict?

About 20% of people aged 16 to 24 suffer from some kind of mental health condition?

Around the world about a million people commit suicide each year, 6000 in the UK and Irealnd?

Given the recent tragic cases of multiple suicides in the Dundee area, i thought a thread on mental health issues maye not be a bad idea.

Unfortunately there is still an unacceptable stigma around mental health especially depression. Mental health conditions can affect anyone, there is no age limit, it doesn't discriminate between rich and poor, it can affect the physically fit, it can affect those who appear to 'have everything'.

Some of the key signs of mental health disorders are:
- someone becoming withdrawn or less interested in things they used to enjoy.
- notable anxiety
- sudden criticisms of the way they look
- sudden change in eating or sleeping habits
- signs of self harm or an increase in alcohol or drug consumption
- avoiding work or social occasions
- onset of aggression or anger with little explanation
- confusion or acting in unfamiliar ways
- Or most importantly a conffession they feel sad, depressed, stressed, suicidal etc etc etc

I don't want to sound like i'm preaching but the social stigma that surrounds mental health is very much still there. I have had 1st hand experience of this as a depression sufferer myself. If someone you know comes to you complaining of feeling stressed, dpressed, hearing voices or whatever please, please don't ignore them. Talk to them, encourage them to find help, take them to their GP. Just do something.

The suicide rate is Scotland is far higher than the rest of the UK, in this day and age this is totally unacceptable, no one should be dying as a result of mental health conditions in the 21st century. So, if nothing else, please just be open minded and understanding about mental health. It's far more common than you would imagine and absolutely no different from a physical illness like cancer or heart disease.

[EskbankHibby]

Did you know that......

Due to post traumatic stress disorder, more soldiers have commited suicide since the Falklands War than were killed in the conflict?



I was stunned when i heard this recently. We have the pleasure of working with these guys http://www.themarkwrightproject.org.uk/ They are brilliant at supporting veterans and their families in every way including mental health issues.

Bit of a tangent but i was also not aware of how difficult it was for veterans charities to get funding/support in comparison with higher profile organisations like Help for Heroes who help serving soldiers.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I was stunned when i heard this recently. We have the pleasure of working with these guys http://www.themarkwrightproject.org.uk/ They are brilliant at supporting veterans and their families in every way including mental health issues.

Bit of a tangent but i was also not aware of how difficult it was for veterans charities to get funding/support in comparison with higher profile organisations like Help for Heroes who help serving soldiers.

On the subject of PTSD, I would also like to praise the work of Combat Stress (http://www.combatstress.org.uk/) who do excellent work in this field as well.

[--------]

Did you know that......

Due to post traumatic stress disorder, more soldiers have commited suicide since the Falklands War than were killed in the conflict?

About 20% of people aged 16 to 24 suffer from some kind of mental health condition?

Around the world about a million people commit suicide each year, 6000 in the UK and Irealnd?

Given the recent tragic cases of multiple suicides in the Dundee area, i thought a thread on mental health issues maye not be a bad idea.

Unfortunately there is still an unacceptable stigma around mental health especially depression. Mental health conditions can affect anyone, there is no age limit, it doesn't discriminate between rich and poor, it can affect the physically fit, it can affect those who appear to 'have everything'.

Some of the key signs of mental health disorders are:
- someone becoming withdrawn or less interested in things they used to enjoy.
- notable anxiety
- sudden criticisms of the way they look
- sudden change in eating or sleeping habits
- signs of self harm or an increase in alcohol or drug consumption
- avoiding work or social occasions
- onset of aggression or anger with little explanation
- confusion or acting in unfamiliar ways
- Or most importantly a conffession they feel sad, depressed, stressed, suicidal etc etc etc

I don't want to sound like i'm preaching but the social stigma that surrounds mental health is very much still there. I have had 1st hand experience of this as a depression sufferer myself. If someone you know comes to you complaining of feeling stressed, dpressed, hearing voices or whatever please, please don't ignore them. Talk to them, encourage them to find help, take them to their GP. Just do something.

The suicide rate is Scotland is far higher than the rest of the UK, in this day and age this is totally unacceptable, no one should be dying as a result of mental health conditions in the 21st century. So, if nothing else, please just be open minded and understanding about mental health. It's far more common than you would imagine and absolutely no different from a physical illness like cancer or heart disease.


Yes, I was. Not just ex-servicemen, either. Young men in their late teens and early twenties are a high-risk group as well.

And you're absolutely right - it's very very difficult to get people to take mental health issues seriously, and it's therefore very difficult for many sufferers to look for help with any expectation of receiving it.

Depression's no joke, I know. (Not being funny, btw.) A potentially fatal illness, I always say.

[Leicester Fan]

Depression's no joke, I know. (Not being funny, btw.) A potentially fatal illness, I always say.

I've just found out a relative of mine has depression. I can't understand why, he's got a job, a girlfriend and a roof over his head.Now I found out he's on prozac.

My first reaction was to tell him to chuck the pills away and snap out of it but I know that won't help. Tbh I was stunned. I really didn't know what to do/say.

[MSK]

I've just found out a relative of mine has depression. I can't understand why, he's got a job, a girlfriend and a roof over his head.Now I found out he's on prozac.

My first reaction was to tell him to chuck the pills away and snap out of it but I know that won't help. Tbh I was stunned. I really didn't know what to do/say.Is he happy in his job, is he happy in his relationship..is he happy in/with his home ..?...thats the problem with depression ..because folk cant see it in a sufferer they dismiss it...its a "silent" illness alright ..

[Phil D. Rolls]

I've just found out a relative of mine has depression. I can't understand why, he's got a job, a girlfriend and a roof over his head.Now I found out he's on prozac.

My first reaction was to tell him to chuck the pills away and snap out of it but I know that won't help. Tbh I was stunned. I really didn't know what to do/say.

Just treat it as you would any other debilitating illness, show patience and try to stay positive yourself. Hopefully once the Prozac kicks in, your relative will be ready to take life on again.

Be careful what web sites you look at for information. I can recommend http://www.moodcafe.co.uk/content.asp?ArticleCode=2 this one, although it is Fife based, it could apply anywhere.

This also good http://www.mind.org.uk/.

[CropleyWasGod]

I've just found out a relative of mine has depression. I can't understand why, he's got a job, a girlfriend and a roof over his head A common reaction.....depression does not just attack those with "crap lives". That's why it's so difficult to understand.

My first reaction was to tell him to chuck the pills away and snap out of it but I know that won't help. Again, a commoin reaction. But, the worst thing you can do to a sufferer is to tell them to "snap out of it" I really didn't know what to do/say Just be there for him.

Point him in this direction also... http://www.depressionalliance.org/

[Leicester Fan]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I don't really feel comfortable pointing towards websites, I don't really want to make a big deal out it. we have a banterish kind of relationship and it would sound strange coming from me.

Tbh it's come as such a shock I'm having trouble taking it all in.

[barcahibs]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I don't really feel comfortable pointing towards websites, I don't really want to make a big deal out it. we have a banterish kind of relationship and it would sound strange coming from me.

Tbh it's come as such a shock I'm having trouble taking it all in.

I've fought with depression for as long as I can remember. It came back with a vengeance last year. Sometimes I'm winning, sometimes I'm losing but its a fight thats probably never going to end. What a depressing thought :wink:

IMO your instinct to not make a big deal out of it is the right thing to do. Treat him exactly the same way as you did before you found out about his illness. The stigma surrounding depresion and all other mental health issues is horrific and can be one of the worst aspects of the whole thing.

To be honest I've always done my best to hide my illness from all but my closest friends, most people can't really handle it - not their fault its a weird thing to get your head round. As you say there may be no obvious reason for someone to be depressed. When I first became really depressed I was at Uni, doing well in my studies, had a wide circle of friends, a family that loved me, a wee bit of money in my pocket etc, etc. There was (and is) no reason to be depressed. I have had people in the past say to me "just snap out of it" "what have you got to complain about" etc. If only it was that easy. Try to keep in your head that he has a real illness - theres no difference from having a disease its just that theres no physical symptoms.

If your relationship with your relative is one based on banter then stick with that don't change it or tiptoe round him. Everytime I beat my buddy at Call of Duty on the x-box he comes out with the tired excuse that he only lets me win in case I top myself :greengrin He then generally kicks my ass for the next ten matches - trying to tell me something??

To me banter like that is priceless. He's also the guy that turned up out of the blue one night many years ago when I was planning on doing something stupid and sat with me for 24 hours. Never said a word at the time as to why he turned up or how he knew and never mentioned it since. Friendship is one of the things that pulls people through.

Obviously everyone is different, you'll know yourself what your relatives sense of humour/personality is, just treat him normally, the best thing you can do is just be his friend.

At the same time you can't pile all the pressure on yourself. At the end of the day its his problem to work through not yours. If its something you feel you can't handle or don't want to get involved in then thats alright too, its really not your fault and not your responsibilty.

Anyway, thats just some random thoughts on the subject.

[CropleyWasGod]

I've fought with depression for as long as I can remember. It came back with a vengeance last year. Sometimes I'm winning, sometimes I'm losing but its a fight thats probably never going to end. What a depressing thought :wink:

IMO your instinct to not make a big deal out of it is the right thing to do. Treat him exactly the same way as you did before you found out about his illness. The stigma surrounding depresion and all other mental health issues is horrific and can be one of the worst aspects of the whole thing.

To be honest I've always done my best to hide my illness from all but my closest friends, most people can't really handle it - not their fault its a weird thing to get your head round. As you say there may be no obvious reason for someone to be depressed. When I first became really depressed I was at Uni, doing well in my studies, had a wide circle of friends, a family that loved me, a wee bit of money in my pocket etc, etc. There was (and is) no reason to be depressed. I have had people in the past say to me "just snap out of it" "what have you got to complain about" etc. If only it was that easy. Try to keep in your head that he has a real illness - theres no difference from having a disease its just that theres no physical symptoms.

If your relationship with your relative is one based on banter then stick with that don't change it or tiptoe round him. Everytime I beat my buddy at Call of Duty on the x-box he comes out with the tired excuse that he only lets me win in case I top myself :greengrin He then generally kicks my ass for the next ten matches - trying to tell me something??

To me banter like that is priceless. He's also the guy that turned up out of the blue one night many years ago when I was planning on doing something stupid and sat with me for 24 hours. Never said a word at the time as to why he turned up or how he knew and never mentioned it since. Friendship is one of the things that pulls people through.

Obviously everyone is different, you'll know yourself what your relatives sense of humour/personality is, just treat him normally, the best thing you can do is just be his friend.

At the same time you can't pile all the pressure on yourself. At the end of the day its his problem to work through not yours. If its something you feel you can't handle or don't want to get involved in then thats alright too, its really not your fault and not your responsibilty.

Anyway, thats just some random thoughts on the subject.

Respect for being so open and candid. As a fellow-sufferer, I can empathise with a lot of what you say.

I can particularly relate to the bit about hiding it from people. The stigma is such that, particularly for a man, it can change people's perceptions of you... and generally in a negative way.

That said, for me one of the only ways that the general public are going to be able to understand the condition is for more people to "come out". In that sense, it's a bit like HIV.... the profile was raised when Freddie disclosed his status, public debate became better-informed, and as a result there was wider acceptance. In the case of depression, we have had such as Stephen Fry.... as well as all the Hello-type exposes of "my drugs and depression hell"; although I am cynical of the PR motivations in these cases, I cannot knock the fact that the condition gains wider acknowledgement as a result.

So... the dilemma..... stay in the closet and surround yourself with those who care, but don't actually contribute to the wider issues.... or tell the whole world, and risk the negative effects on relationships and career?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Thanks for the advice chaps. I don't really feel comfortable pointing towards websites, I don't really want to make a big deal out it. we have a banterish kind of relationship and it would sound strange coming from me.

Tbh it's come as such a shock I'm having trouble taking it all in.

Just be yourself, I was really thinking that you might benefit from reading the web sites.


Respect for being so open and candid. As a fellow-sufferer, I can empathise with a lot of what you say.

I can particularly relate to the bit about hiding it from people. The stigma is such that, particularly for a man, it can change people's perceptions of you... and generally in a negative way.

That said, for me one of the only ways that the general public are going to be able to understand the condition is for more people to "come out". In that sense, it's a bit like HIV.... the profile was raised when Freddie disclosed his status, public debate became better-informed, and as a result there was wider acceptance. In the case of depression, we have had such as Stephen Fry.... as well as all the Hello-type exposes of "my drugs and depression hell"; although I am cynical of the PR motivations in these cases, I cannot knock the fact that the condition gains wider acknowledgement as a result.

So... the dilemma..... stay in the closet and surround yourself with those who care, but don't actually contribute to the wider issues.... or tell the whole world, and risk the negative effects on relationships and career?

You're right, it doesn't go away. I have to say, one of the things that made me think I might have a problem with depression was Neil Lennon opening up in public.

I realised that a lot of the things he was saying about himself could equally have applied to me. I have learned to work at it, and spot the signs of it creeping up, but it is a constant battle.

One of the things that really helps, is seeing it as an illness like the flu, and knowing that it will pass, and trying to remember that and do the right things to recover.

[Leicester Fan]

Thanks again chaps.

[CropleyWasGod]

You're right, it doesn't go away. I have to say, one of the things that made me think I might have a problem with depression was Neil Lennon opening up in public.

.

For that reason alone, I will always have respect for Neil Lennon. To come out like that, in the macho polarised society that is West of Scotland fitba.....when, tbh, he didn't have to.... took some balls.

[barcahibs]

Respect for being so open and candid. As a fellow-sufferer, I can empathise with a lot of what you say.

I can particularly relate to the bit about hiding it from people. The stigma is such that, particularly for a man, it can change people's perceptions of you... and generally in a negative way.

That said, for me one of the only ways that the general public are going to be able to understand the condition is for more people to "come out". In that sense, it's a bit like HIV.... the profile was raised when Freddie disclosed his status, public debate became better-informed, and as a result there was wider acceptance. In the case of depression, we have had such as Stephen Fry.... as well as all the Hello-type exposes of "my drugs and depression hell"; although I am cynical of the PR motivations in these cases, I cannot knock the fact that the condition gains wider acknowledgement as a result.

So... the dilemma..... stay in the closet and surround yourself with those who care, but don't actually contribute to the wider issues.... or tell the whole world, and risk the negative effects on relationships and career?


Just be yourself, I was really thinking that you might benefit from reading the web sites.



You're right, it doesn't go away. I have to say, one of the things that made me think I might have a problem with depression was Neil Lennon opening up in public.

I realised that a lot of the things he was saying about himself could equally have applied to me. I have learned to work at it, and spot the signs of it creeping up, but it is a constant battle.

One of the things that really helps, is seeing it as an illness like the flu, and knowing that it will pass, and trying to remember that and do the right things to recover.

The bit in bold is something I was advised to try and think about recently and I have to say that its one of the most useful pieces of advice I've had. It will pass.

Its not always easy to think like that at the bad times however. And I'm ashamed to say I haven't always been receptive - or even polite - to family and friends who've tried to help me keep it in mind.
I think the effect it has on those around you is one of the hardest things about depression, for me it can be another thing that stops me talking about it. Usually I'd rather people just thought I was an arse and forget about me, the instinct is to push people away to prevent them being hurt.

IMO its something that has to be talked about though, it shouldn't be some dirty little secret to be hidden behind closed doors. Its just another illness. I will say that over the period that I've been in contact with the NHS about it (almost 15 years) that things have gotten better. I'm eternally grateful for those stronger than me - like Neil Lennon (much as I dislike him for his day job!) - who are dragging the issue into the open. As CropleyWasGod points out though it is in danger of becoming the in celebrity illness of the week.

This thread does highlight a positive (for me) though - the more people you tell about it the more ordinary, normal people you discover that are going through, or have gone through, the exact same thing. Maybe I'm not just a nutter after all - though surely we have to be crazy to be depressed and yet follow Hibs? :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=barcahibs;2559046

This thread does highlight a positive (for me) though - the more people you tell about it the more ordinary, normal people you discover that are going through, or have gone through, the exact same thing. [/QUOTE]

Amen to that. 1 in 5 of us suffer at some point. :agree:

[Pete]

A lot of people know manic-depressives who have attempted to take, or have actually taken their own lives and this forms their opinion on what depression actually is.

If someone is feeling the symptoms and knows there's something wrong they compare it to the worst cases they know and think they are making a fuss over nothing or are attention seeking. They can think that what they're going through is nothing compared to what the guy who topped himself must have went through...so they keep it to themselves.

I heard a great advert on the radio about how some people are too close to talk about it with and some people are too distant. I think it's spot on that some sort of middle ground is the best bet to talk with, or more importantly, tell the first person about a problem like this.

The most difficult step is the actual first one where you tell someone about it and for guys this is hard because we naturally don't let our guard down and don't want to be seen as weak.
There still is stigma surrounding mental health and other issues but I think we've come a long way even in the past decade. Councilling services and help is out there and it's being made aware of...but we have to try harder to get people to initially open up, especially young men, and make them aware that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

[Borders Hibby]

Depression is not a sign of weakness, its a sign of trying to be strong for to long.

Took me long enough to find that quote and figure out that if I didnt tell people my quality of life will always be pish. It takes strength to admit the problem at a time that you are your lowest so anything that helps remove stigma and allows us to talk about it and banter about it will save lives. Scotland has the third highest rate of male suicide in Europe.

Depression has many causes but the effect is a chemical imbalance in the brain, much in the same way a diabetic has a chemical imbalance in the pancreas. Until that is treated sorting out your life is impossible, the activity of the brain is depressed, it isnt working right. Talking helps, stigma stops people talking and asking for help.

This initiative was started to try and get men to talk about mental ill health, it was launched in the Scottish Borders recently by Choose Life, the launch was attended by Andy Mclaren and Craig Chalmers. Be nice to think our club could become involved.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4951456.stm

http://www.itsagoal.org.uk/

[hibsbollah]

For that reason alone, I will always have respect for Neil Lennon. To come out like that, in the macho polarised society that is West of Scotland fitba.....when, tbh, he didn't have to.... took some balls.

Neil Lennons problems were also exaccerbated by the fact he was prescribed Seroxat, a particularly controversial anti-depressant that GSK still makes but is hardly ever prescribed anymore due to causing more problems than it solves.

A reminder that reaching for a bottle of pills, even when it is prescribed by well-meaning doctors, is not always the answer.

A great thread, nice to see people taking this problem seriously and being open about it:thumbsup:Probably wouldnt have happened 5 or 10 years ago.

[--------]

A lot of people know manic-depressives who have attempted to take, or have actually taken their own lives and this forms their opinion on what depression actually is.

If someone is feeling the symptoms and knows there's something wrong they compare it to the worst cases they know and think they are making a fuss over nothing or are attention seeking. They can think that what they're going through is nothing compared to what the guy who topped himself must have went through...so they keep it to themselves.

I heard a great advert on the radio about how some people are too close to talk about it with and some people are too distant. I think it's spot on that some sort of middle ground is the best bet to talk with, or more importantly, tell the first person about a problem like this.

The most difficult step is the actual first one where you tell someone about it and for guys this is hard because we naturally don't let our guard down and don't want to be seen as weak.

There still is stigma surrounding mental health and other issues but I think we've come a long way even in the past decade. Councilling services and help is out there and it's being made aware of...but we have to try harder to get people to initially open up, especially young men, and make them aware that it's nothing to be ashamed of.

:agree:

[Borders Hibby]

Neil Lennons problems were also exaccerbated by the fact he was prescribed Seroxat, a particularly controversial anti-depressant that GSK still makes but is hardly ever prescribed anymore due to causing more problems than it solves.

A reminder that reaching for a bottle of pills, even when it is prescribed by well-meaning doctors, is not always the answer.

A great thread, nice to see people taking this problem seriously and being open about it:thumbsup:Probably wouldnt have happened 5 or 10 years ago.

I agree it is a massive step forward in this country. The pills are a bit hit and miss and are not in themselves an answer. Hopefully they give the sufferer space to find out the causes of the depression or change the way they live their lives. Talking therapies should be available to all along with the pills, unfortunately you can wait upto 18 months for a counsellor on the NHS. Imagine waiting that long if you had a broken leg!:agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree it is a massive step forward in this country. The pills are a bit hit and miss and are not in themselves an answer. Hopefully they give the sufferer space to find out the causes of the depression or change the way they live their lives. Talking therapies should be available to all along with the pills, unfortunately you can wait upto 18 months for a counsellor on the NHS. Imagine waiting that long if you had a broken leg!:agree:

The Scottish Government is pushing GPs towards talking therapies as opposed to pills. There's a good chance this will gather momentum as it affects the way they are paid!

I sometimes think that the GPs could be doing more. In the old days, a half hour chat with the doctor was often enough to get people thinking right, and gave them a chance to unload. Now GPs don't take the time to talk to people.

[MSK]

Neil Lennons problems were also exaccerbated by the fact he was prescribed Seroxat, a particularly controversial anti-depressant that GSK still makes but is hardly ever prescribed anymore due to causing more problems than it solves.
A reminder that reaching for a bottle of pills, even when it is prescribed by well-meaning doctors, is not always the answer.

A great thread, nice to see people taking this problem seriously and being open about it:thumbsup:Probably wouldnt have happened 5 or 10 years ago.Good post mate & i can relate to the highlighted part & in particular Seroxat...i was on a very high dosage of Seroxat for a few years ..if i had continued with them then i know for a fact i wouldnt be here today ..

A very very powerfully mind bending drug that doesnt just mentally grip you, it physically grips you too, it takes total control over every part of your body, some mornings i couldnt get down the stairs as my joints & muscles were in agony ..that was a "reaction" that would come & go ..

Depression is a "living hell" absolutley horrific but then so are some of the medications ..you end up not just fighting your condition but fighting the medication too & at times there becomes a reluctance to use it.

I was eventually offered an "alternative" but the damage had been done, i was wracked with pain & couldnt suffer any longer so i made a decision..perhaps a selfish one but i wanted out of this "hell"...so against medical advice i went cold turkey...i was not being used as a human guine pig any longer & despite repeated warnings by medical staff of the "consequences" of going cold turkey i went ahead ...my only thoughts being ..could it be any worse than what im going through now ..of course ..it could have proved fatal ..

I locked myself in my room, only coming out for assistance to toilet & bathe..even that was a chore ...i went through every mental & physical emotion known to man ..laughing, crying, tremours, vomiting, nightmares, excessive sweating, weight loss, pain in abundance..as my family wept downstairs i battled alone in my world upstairs, not knowing how it would end but in a way glad my body was ridding itself of this horrific poison.

Week's followed & things began to ease, my emotions came back ..the ones that i could share with my family, i could cuddle my Wife & kids again..that for the first time in years..i was back ..i began to feel human again..

I was still very weak & very doddery on my feet, there was what felt like waves rushing through my head ..slopping from side to side & this affected my balance. I decided to walk up the road to the shops...i was walking like i was drunk..the Serotonin in my brain was working overtime & my speech was slurred.

This continued for another couple of months but i was starting to feel great, no drugs..no nothing, i felt great, great to the extent that i had left that "body"..that wasn't me in there, that was someone else...

I then attended therapy, one to one with therapists & i loved every minute of being able to talk about my illness to where i was then to where i am now. I have fully recovered but such is life i know that there is only a very thin line from being up or being down.

Apologies for the long winded post but as others have been brave enough to share i thought i would share my experience too.

[Wembley67]

The Scottish Government is pushing GPs towards talking therapies as opposed to pills. There's a good chance this will gather momentum as it affects the way they are paid!

I sometimes think that the GPs could be doing more. In the old days, a half hour chat with the doctor was often enough to get people thinking right, and gave them a chance to unload. Now GPs don't take the time to talk to people.

Completely agree, when I was going through a rather traumatic time I went to the doctors and was given a prescription for anti-depressants, no questions asked.

With the doctors being the professionals I thought fair enough, lets shovel these down my throat and all the problems will go away - WRONG! They seemed to just shove all my emotions into a wee corner and close the door.

When I realised that this wasn't doing me any good I started coming off them and thats when the problems started, I had no idea who or what I was, no feelings to anything, basically walking around like a ghost for a year or so.

I've now started to get my life back on track. After attending counselling, speaking to friends and most importantly forming a closer relationship to my family I can now see a way out of this, if I was still taking the medication it really scares me to think where I would be right now.

:top marks for starting this thread.

[Pretty Boy]

Some truly inspiring stories on here.

I have lived with depression for about 4 years now, unfortunately my depression was an underlying cause in what became a very severe gambling addiction which in turn led to me abusing alcohol to a degree. This wasn't helped by the fact that certain actions of mine led to me losing my job and gaining a criminal record, given the nature of my addiction and the fact i lost my job i'm pretty sure you can guess what i was up to.

Thankfully i had an absolutely brilliant GP who referred me to a specialist and i ended up in both one to one and group counselling. This was like an absolute revelation to me, i met so many people around the same age as me with similar problems, i suddenly realised i wasn't isolated and wasn't the only one with such problems. This enabled me to open up to people about what i was feeling and not close people out in the way i had done previously.

For me every day can still be a challenge, the fact i have a criminal record makes a completely fresh start almost impossible but i have learnt to deal with problems i'm having one at a time rather than bottling everything up. I still have to fight an urge to gamble occasionally but can happily say i haven't bet a single penny in 6 months(from a guy who once lost £500 in a pub on the toss of a coin and £2300 in a single sitting at a blackjack table this is quite an acheivement). I'm aware that depression is something that may always be with me but for the first time in a long time the last few weeks have seen me feel positive again, given i was exceptionally close to doing something silly only 8 months ago(only an unexpected visit from a good friend stopped me) i feel quite happy about this fact.

[Borders Hibby]

The Scottish Government is pushing GPs towards talking therapies as opposed to pills. There's a good chance this will gather momentum as it affects the way they are paid!

I sometimes think that the GPs could be doing more. In the old days, a half hour chat with the doctor was often enough to get people thinking right, and gave them a chance to unload. Now GPs don't take the time to talk to people.

Lucky to get 10 mins! Not blaming the GPs as they are primary care and should be referring people on for treatment, a prescription for anti depressants is a bit like giving someone a broken leg a bottle of painkillers. I hope the need for talking therapies does gather momentum is it will save lives. As will open honest forums like this.:agree:

[--------]

Completely agree, when I was going through a rather traumatic time I went to the doctors and was given a prescription for anti-depressants, no questions asked.

With the doctors being the professionals I thought fair enough, lets shovel these down my throat and all the problems will go away - WRONG! They seemed to just shove all my emotions into a wee corner and close the door.

When I realised that this wasn't doing me any good I started coming off them and thats when the problems started, I had no idea who or what I was, no feelings to anything, basically walking around like a ghost for a year or so.

I've now started to get my life back on track. After attending counselling, speaking to friends and most importantly forming a closer relationship to my family I can now see a way out of this, if I was still taking the medication it really scares me to think where I would be right now.

:top marks for starting this thread.


:agree:

There are lots of different kinds of anti-depressant, and the medication has to be right for the patient. Different pills work for different patients. Doctors need to warn patients about this and encourage them to report back if they encounter problems of any kind.

My understanding is that the anti-depressant medication 'unblocks' the mind to begin identifying and dealing with the root problems causing the depression. No patient should be prescribed medication and encouraged to think that that sorts out the problem. There has to be counselling to back up the medication.

I've been through two serious bouts of depression in the last 15 years. The first time I did nothing - bottled everything up and pretended nothing was wrong - until I literally hit a wall emotionally and psychologically. I was fortunate in my GP, and happily the medication he prescribed suited me. I was also blessed by good friends and a very wise and helpful counsellor. It still took a few years to get back to a place where I could cope with work.

The second time I picked up the warning signs early, went to my GP (a different one) went back on the same medication as before and found a colleague I could open up to. Things are now a lot better, and improving.

Too many people don't realise that depression is a potentially fatal illness which isn't self-inflicted - depression is caused by all sorts of factors and it needs to be dealt with. The upside is that when we do face it and deal with it, we can recover.

[Borders Hibby]

Good post mate & i can relate to the highlighted part & in particular Seroxat...i was on a very high dosage of Seroxat for a few years ..if i had continued with them then i know for a fact i wouldnt be here today ..

A very very powerfully mind bending drug that doesnt just mentally grip you, it physically grips you too, it takes total control over every part of your body, some mornings i couldnt get down the stairs as my joints & muscles were in agony ..that was a "reaction" that would come & go ..

Depression is a "living hell" absolutley horrific but then so are some of the medications ..you end up not just fighting your condition but fighting the medication too & at times there becomes a reluctance to use it.

I was eventually offered an "alternative" but the damage had been done, i was wracked with pain & couldnt suffer any longer so i made a decision..perhaps a selfish one but i wanted out of this "hell"...so against medical advice i went cold turkey...i was not being used as a human guine pig any longer & despite repeated warnings by medical staff of the "consequences" of going cold turkey i went ahead ...my only thoughts being ..could it be any worse than what im going through now ..of course ..it could have proved fatal ..

I locked myself in my room, only coming out for assistance to toilet & bathe..even that was a chore ...i went through every mental & physical emotion known to man ..laughing, crying, tremours, vomiting, nightmares, excessive sweating, weight loss, pain in abundance..as my family wept downstairs i battled alone in my world upstairs, not knowing how it would end but in a way glad my body was ridding itself of this horrific poison.

Week's followed & things began to ease, my emotions came back ..the ones that i could share with my family, i could cuddle my Wife & kids again..that for the first time in years..i was back ..i began to feel human again..

I was still very weak & very doddery on my feet, there was what felt like waves rushing through my head ..slopping from side to side & this affected my balance. I decided to walk up the road to the shops...i was walking like i was drunk..the Serotonin in my brain was working overtime & my speech was slurred.

This continued for another couple of months but i was starting to feel great, no drugs..no nothing, i felt great, great to the extent that i had left that "body"..that wasn't me in there, that was someone else...

I then attended therapy, one to one with therapists & i loved every minute of being able to talk about my illness to where i was then to where i am now. I have fully recovered but such is life i know that there is only a very thin line from being up or being down.

Apologies for the long winded post but as others have been brave enough to share i thought i would share my experience too.

No need to apologise, I find these posts inspirational. I have been on seroxat, it just made me numb. I have attempted suicide 3 times and only in the last few months have I got the right counselling and drug treatment that is beginning to help. I still spend most days gritting my teeth holding on to life until the counselling and drugs have time to work. You are right it is a living hell, one that your brain tells you there is no escape from. Sharing your experiences helps, so thank you.:agree:

[MSK]

No need to apologise, I find these posts inspirational. I have been on seroxat, it just made me numb. I have attempted suicide 3 times and only in the last few months have I got the right counselling and drug treatment that is beginning to help. I still spend most days gritting my teeth holding on to life until the counselling and drugs have time to work. You are right it is a living hell, one that your brain tells you there is no escape from. Sharing your experiences helps, so thank you.:agree:Jeez..i really hope you get through it mate ..im with you & others every inch of the way...The suicidal thing scares me now ..it didnt then but when i read about folk saying they contemplated suicide i now believe them ..

Suicide was not a thought nor an issue with me at first but each day brought a different emotion...in reality i was helpless..totally helpless, my Wife & kids were just objects of irritation ..the more they tried to help the more i became agitated i couldnt bear that anymore ..i couldnt bear people telling me i will get over it ..i didnt need that ..what the hell would they know ..i didnt care about their thoughts ..this was my illness ..its about me me me !!

I was crying out for help but all the kisses & cuddles in this world were not enough ..i knew my family cared but thats not what it was about ..see me hear me ..get me out of this hell !!

I totally snapped one night, i waited until the Wife & kids were out then i dropped all lights..took a few tablets ..sent a few texts & said my goodbyes ..i didnt want to kill myself ..i just wanted to waken up in another place ..anywhere would have been better than living in this hell ..

Soon my Wife & kids returned, they were hysterical ..did i care ..nope ..not a jot ..Police ..my street cordoned off ..Police negotiator ..i didnt want that & i became more distressed....i grabbed a large knife & held it between my chest & my back door where Police with riot shields had converged..i told them if they kick my door in then im dead ..

I spoke more with the negotiator, although paranoid i felt a calmness, im in control here & i have folk listeningfor once ..i eventually gave myself up as i was promised immediate help ..thats all i wanted ..help ..not tablets ..

I was hand cuffed & taken to the ERI under Police escort..given a bed & breakfast then told i could go home !!! my Wife was absolutley livid ..she wanted me treated or at worst (imo) sectioned !!...

She came & picked me up the following morning ..i was numb ..she was numb..my kids were numb ..i wasnt fixed..i was just another nutter with depression seeking attention ..another statistic..call it what ye want ..

Perhaps though that gave me the kick up the erse that i needed..i took the drastic action of going cold turkey ..i couldnt have ever felt any lower than i did then... rock bottom ..i couldnt possibly get any lower..never ..ever ..

[barcahibs]

:agree:

There are lots of different kinds of anti-depressant, and the medication has to be right for the patient. Different pills work for different patients. Doctors need to warn patients about this and encourage them to report back if they encounter problems of any kind.

My understanding is that the anti-depressant medication 'unblocks' the mind to begin identifying and dealing with the root problems causing the depression. No patient should be prescribed medication and encouraged to think that that sorts out the problem. There has to be counselling to back up the medication.

I've been through two serious bouts of depression in the last 15 years. The first time I did nothing - bottled everything up and pretended nothing was wrong - until I literally hit a wall emotionally and psychologically. I was fortunate in my GP, and happily the medication he prescribed suited me. I was also blessed by good friends and a very wise and helpful counsellor. It still took a few years to get back to a place where I could cope with work.

The second time I picked up the warning signs early, went to my GP (a different one) went back on the same medication as before and found a colleague I could open up to. Things are now a lot better, and improving.

Too many people don't realise that depression is a potentially fatal illness which isn't self-inflicted - depression is caused by all sorts of factors and it needs to be dealt with. The upside is that when we do face it and deal with it, we can recover.

Don't want to quote everyone - as the post would take up most of the page! - but I want to echo the comments of others and say thanks and well done to everyone for sharing their experiences. Bringing this stuff out into the light is the way forward.

The bit in bold from Doddie is a very wise statement IMO. When I first visited the doctor I was 18/19 years old and I'd successfully hidden my illness from everyone around me for some time. I was absolutely desperate for help and managed to get myself into my GP's. I was so wound up about the situation that I hadn't slept for several days. I broke down in his office and through a lot of tears told him my problem. His response was to hand me a prescription for some pink and blue tranquilisers (to this day I don't know exactly what they were) and pretty much throw me out of his office. He couldn't get rid of me fast enough and told me to call back in a couple of months if I wasn't feeling any better.

My parents found out a couple of days later and dragged me back into the surgery to see a different GP. This time I was grudgingly referred to the hospital but told it would be more than a year before anyone would be able to see me. I can absolutely guarantee I would have been dead long before a year had passed. I was again told to take the tranquilisers and everything would sort itself out.

Luckily for me my parents had the resources to get me a couple of sessions with a specialist privately, turned out he was the same guy the NHS would have sent me to but privately he could see me within a few days. Once I'd spoken to him he was able to arrange further treatment immediately, both medication and counselling, with the NHS. I dread to think how many people suffered who weren't able to afford the breaks I was given. I am eternally grateful to my parents and to the specialist for his actions.

15 years ago the provisions for mental health were pretty shocking IMO. There has been a change however; as I said earlier my depression returned last year worse than it had ever been. I made contact with my GP who listened to my problem, talked to me about a suitable dose of short term medication, referred me to the hospital immediately and arranged to see me weekly to check how things were going until the hospital responded. Within 3 weeks I was speaking to a therapist and had arranged an ongoing package of care. The difference between now and 15 years ago is night and day IMO though maybe I've just been lucky this time around.

I'd also like to contribute to what others have said about seroxat. I was on a very high dosage of this drug for almost 3 years - including the 8 months it took to wean me off this supposedly 'non-addictive' treatment. The side effects were horrific including night terrors, paranoia, self harm and violent mood swings - though most of the time I felt incapable of feeling any emotion at all. I slept for up to 20 hours a day thorughout this period. The worst part of all for me however is that I have no actual memory of any of this period of my life. About 4-5 years of my life simply don't exist to me. The drug worked somewhat in that I know I attended college during this period and I know I met my girlfriend but i don't remember any of it. I know it hurts my girlfriend that I have no memory of us meeting or of our first year or so together.

Even today I still have a "scrambled" memory and no ability to remember things short term at all. I used to read avidly, now I find it hard to concentrate on anything long enough. I also still suffer from withdrawal symptoms even now many years later, when I am tired or stressed I get dizzy and weak and experience distinctive 'electric shock' like jolts through my body.

I've never heard a good word said about seroxat personally though I do wonder if perhaps things would have been even worse without it.

Anyway, that was a bit rambling and shouldn't be taken by anyone considering medication as a recommendation not to. There are many different meds out there and everyone reacts differently. Just make sure you talk to your doctor about the pros and cons of each treatment and find the right one for you.

[barcahibs]

Jeez..i really hope you get through it mate ..im with you & others every inch of the way...The suicidal thing scares me now ..it didnt then but when i read about folk saying they contemplated suicide i now believe them ..

Suicide was not a thought nor an issue with me at first but each day brought a different emotion...in reality i was helpless..totally helpless, my Wife & kids were just objects of irritation ..the more they tried to help the more i became agitated i couldnt bear that anymore ..i couldnt bear people telling me i will get over it ..i didnt need that ..what the hell would they know ..i didnt care about their thoughts ..this was my illness ..its about me me me !!

I was crying out for help but all the kisses & cuddles in this world were not enough ..i knew my family cared but thats not what it was about ..see me hear me ..get me out of this hell !!

I totally snapped one night, i waited until the Wife & kids were out then i dropped all lights..took a few tablets ..sent a few texts & said my goodbyes ..i didnt want to kill myself ..i just wanted to waken up in another place ..anywhere would have been better than living in this hell ..

Soon my Wife & kids returned, they were hysterical ..did i care ..nope ..not a jot ..Police ..my street cordoned off ..Police negotiator ..i didnt want that & i became more distressed....i grabbed a large knife & held it between my chest & my back door where Police with riot shields had converged..i told them if they kick my door in then im dead ..

I spoke more with the negotiator, although paranoid i felt a calmness, im in control here & i have folk listeningfor once ..i eventually gave myself up as i was promised immediate help ..thats all i wanted ..help ..not tablets ..

I was hand cuffed & taken to the ERI under Police escort..given a bed & breakfast then told i could go home !!! my Wife was absolutley livid ..she wanted me treated or at worst (imo) sectioned !!...

She came & picked me up the following morning ..i was numb ..she was numb..my kids were numb ..i wasnt fixed..i was just another nutter with depression seeking attention ..another statistic..call it what ye want ..

Perhaps though that gave me the kick up the erse that i needed..i took the drastic action of going cold turkey ..i couldnt have ever felt any lower than i did then... rock bottom ..i couldnt possibly get any lower..never ..ever ..

I missed this while posting.

Thats an amazing story and I hope that you are getting through things now. I was never in a situation quite as bad as that but I can empathise completely with the emotions and the thoughts that were going through your head, I - and I'm sure many others on this thread - were thinking and feeling the exact same things. I hope it helps you, borders hibby and everyone else to know that you weren't and aren't alone. As borders hibby says, sharing helps

[MSK]

I missed this while posting.

Thats an amazing story and I hope that you are getting through things now. I was never in a situation quite as bad as that but I can empathise completely with the emotions and the thoughts that were going through your head, I - and I'm sure many others on this thread - were thinking and feeling the exact same things. I hope it helps you, borders hibby and everyone else to know that you weren't and aren't alone. As borders hibby says, sharing helpsThanks Barca ..all that happened about nine years ago & beyond ..it is crazy really how it all started but it just shows the power of the mind ..

I was never one to visit my GP ..i was very fit, perfect weight, good job, lovely Wife & young Daughters ..fantastic house in Stenhouse ..

We had three holidays a year abroad but on a holiday to Teneriffe i became ill..i put it down to too much alcohol & sun ..

On return i started suffering panic attacks & very high heart rate ..i was given beta blockers to reduce my heart rate but it worsened to the extent my heart was traced at 280 bpm..i was then diagnosed with Wolffe Parkinson Whyte Syndrome (an extra eletrical pathway in the heart)..various medication failed at the Western so i was referred to the old RI..it was then agreed with specialists that i go through the radio frequency ablation procedure (burning out the extra pathway)..fatality rate 1/100

This is when when my world turned upside down ..i was convinced i was going to die ..a young fit 35 yo with young kids ..i fell to pieces..i couldnt cope ..i went off sick from work (depression) for six months ..then i had the "procedure"..unfortunately they only got 90% of the fibre ..

Just after Christmas a year later i was delivering beer in Dunning Perthshire when i took a massive seizure ..i spent a couple of nights in Perth Royal then discharged..i then went through an MRI scan & Epilepsy test but nothing showed up ..they then went for the heart again ..i needed another ablation ..i needed that like i needed a hole in the head ..i was an emotional wreck & losing the will to live ..

Two months later i went in for my second heart op ..this time there were complications ..a normal ablation takes 30 mins ..i was on my fifth hour !!! ..all through this i was awake watching my wee heart being zapped by lasers..only being taken somewhere else in this world by morphine (great stuff)...

That op was finally a success ..i was physically mended but mentally destroyed ..as time wore on & my mental condition worsening i took ill again whilst out delivering beer..nothing to do with my heart this time though ..i had been suffering a "dodgy gut" for months but that was the last of my worries.

I had been "warehoused" by management because of my need to use the cludgie urgently ..but we were that short of Draymen i was asked to go out with a "few ton"...i took ill in Cowdenbeath early in the morn but told the driver to keep going until help arrived from the depot...about six hours later in Glenrothes a Manager turned up to run me home ..my Wife ran me up to the old RI ,,by then i was taking convulsions ..i was out of it & gravely ill...i was blue lighted to the Infections Disease unit at the Western where i remained for three weeks ..falling to just above 7 stone in weight..

I recovered from that but by that time..as you could imagine i was mentally destroyed & my depression just took more of a grip ..

Now, i can laugh about that with my Wife & kids ..it wasnt funny in a ha ha way but we can laugh at me not "being here"..my Wife tells me about things i done & said but i have no recollection ..

I love my family to bits though, i couldnt help a single thing ..i was helpless but being able to talk about it is good therapy, we laugh together, im not embarrassed about my depression....im open about it ..the more we share the more we learn ..

[Borders Hibby]

Jeez..i really hope you get through it mate ..im with you & others every inch of the way...The suicidal thing scares me now ..it didnt then but when i read about folk saying they contemplated suicide i now believe them ..

Suicide was not a thought nor an issue with me at first but each day brought a different emotion...in reality i was helpless..totally helpless, my Wife & kids were just objects of irritation ..the more they tried to help the more i became agitated i couldnt bear that anymore ..i couldnt bear people telling me i will get over it ..i didnt need that ..what the hell would they know ..i didnt care about their thoughts ..this was my illness ..its about me me me !!

I was crying out for help but all the kisses & cuddles in this world were not enough ..i knew my family cared but thats not what it was about ..see me hear me ..get me out of this hell !!

I totally snapped one night, i waited until the Wife & kids were out then i dropped all lights..took a few tablets ..sent a few texts & said my goodbyes ..i didnt want to kill myself ..i just wanted to waken up in another place ..anywhere would have been better than living in this hell ..

Soon my Wife & kids returned, they were hysterical ..did i care ..nope ..not a jot ..Police ..my street cordoned off ..Police negotiator ..i didnt want that & i became more distressed....i grabbed a large knife & held it between my chest & my back door where Police with riot shields had converged..i told them if they kick my door in then im dead ..

I spoke more with the negotiator, although paranoid i felt a calmness, im in control here & i have folk listeningfor once ..i eventually gave myself up as i was promised immediate help ..thats all i wanted ..help ..not tablets ..

I was hand cuffed & taken to the ERI under Police escort..given a bed & breakfast then told i could go home !!! my Wife was absolutley livid ..she wanted me treated or at worst (imo) sectioned !!...

She came & picked me up the following morning ..i was numb ..she was numb..my kids were numb ..i wasnt fixed..i was just another nutter with depression seeking attention ..another statistic..call it what ye want ..

Perhaps though that gave me the kick up the erse that i needed..i took the drastic action of going cold turkey ..i couldnt have ever felt any lower than i did then... rock bottom ..i couldnt possibly get any lower..never ..ever ..

A horrible experience, I am glad that you got the help you needed. For me I spent 5 nights in the ERI after an overdose but then like you was just packed off home. It has felt like a fight to be heard and talking through therapy and medication together has put me on the right track. Mental health services are still not perfect but hopefully a continuing change in attitude and open forums like this will help us all to have the life we deserve.