Over the counter medicines

[Jack]

Should not be made available to ANYONE on a NHS prescription.


So says a GP in England.


That would include aspirin, paracetamol, most anti-histamine stuff among many others. BTW aspirin and paracetamol are both in the top 10 most prescribed drugs.

Besides the cost of the drugs themselves, by not going to the GP for a prescription the GPs time is freed up with unnecessary appointments. The patients that ask for these drugs most of the time know damn fine that’s what they need so its not as though they need a diagnosis to go with it. If they did turn up at the docs they'd be directed to Boots, Tesco's or local chemist for the pills / potions they need – no prescription!

Could save an absolute fortune on drugs and GP time, money and time that cmould be better used treating patients with greater need.


The principal of the NHS is that everyone insures themselves according to their means (National Insurance allegedly) and gets treated according to their needs.


Thoughts anyone?

[HibsMax]

1. OTC drugs should be available to anyone IMO. That's why they are over the counter in the first place. Not sure what purpose controlling OTC drugs is.

2. Sometimes you have to see your doctor to get a prescription refilled because circumstances do change and sometimes a change in medication is required. Some times you can get a prescription refilled just by having the pharmacy fax in a request. Sometimes your doctor just wants to see you.

[Jack]

1. OTC drugs should be available to anyone IMO. That's why they are over the counter in the first place. Not sure what purpose controlling OTC drugs is.

2. Sometimes you have to see your doctor to get a prescription refilled because circumstances do change and sometimes a change in medication is required. Some times you can get a prescription refilled just by having the pharmacy fax in a request. Sometimes your doctor just wants to see you.

Don't know how long you’ve been away HibsMax, OTC means anyone can buy them, nobody is looking to control them just you wouldn’t be able to get them 'free' on the NHS.

The point the GP was making was that prescriptions should only be for drugs that you cannot buy over the counter so you would still need to see a GP, or prescriber, to get them.

[ballengeich]

The motivation for people getting a prescription for otc drugs is to save money for an individual who is exempt from paying prescription charges. There's a danger that some people who benefit from otc drugs but can't afford to pay for them might suffer.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think one of the reasons why this is being floated is that drugs on prescription are charged to the NHS at a much higher rate than they are available OTC. The real thing is to go for the drug companies and pharmacists. We're all in this together.

[ballengeich]

I think one of the reasons why this is being floated is that drugs on prescription are charged to the NHS at a much higher rate than they are available OTC. The real thing is to go for the drug companies and pharmacists. We're all in this together.

Can you give any examples to back this up? If the OP's claim that aspirin and paracetamol are among the most prescribed drugs is correct, then I think that anyone having to pay for a prescription could buy them cheaper otc. I still think that the problem with the proposal may be for people exempt from paying for NHS prescriptions being required to pay for drugs they need regularly.

[EH6 Hibby]

The motivation for people getting a prescription for otc drugs is to save money for an individual who is exempt from paying prescription charges. There's a danger that some people who benefit from otc drugs but can't afford to pay for them might suffer.

I don't know for certain if the Minor Ailment scheme is included in this, but it doesn't sound like it because you don't get a prescription or see a doctor to use this scheme. So anyone unable to pay for otc drugs could register for this scheme in any chemist and all they would need to do would be to speak to their pharmacist in order to get otc.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Can you give any examples to back this up? If the OP's claim that aspirin and paracetamol are among the most prescribed drugs is correct, then I think that anyone having to pay for a prescription could buy them cheaper otc. I still think that the problem with the proposal may be for people exempt from paying for NHS prescriptions being required to pay for drugs they need regularly.

The current British National Formulary states a 16 tablet pack costs the NHS 86p , Boots currently sell OTC at 16p for 16 tabs.

Some simple maths would show the saving to the NHS if these were taken off prescription.

Other examples I can give are being invoiced for £5.50 for a 50 ml bottle of olive oil - I'm sure we can all find cheaper elsewhere. A ward wanted to buy an electronic blood pressure monitor and were quoted £45, they got the very same machine from Lloyd's pharmacy at £15.

It goes on and on, and the NHS seems to think it gets discounts from having preferred suppliers.

I would oppose people having to pay for OTC medicines though, as I see that as the thin end of the wedge. To me part of the problem is that New Labour were in too many corporate pockets.

Just like it was with the banks though, who is the guilty party the victim for failing to stop them, or the criminals who are making money dishonestly?

[heretoday]

I'm all for freeing up GPs time in surgery but it's a bit harsh to say patients "know damn fine that's what they need".

They might not know that for sure.

Or they might just want to see the GP for a reassuring word.

That's fine by me.

[ballengeich]

The current British National Formulary states a 16 tablet pack costs the NHS 86p , Boots currently sell OTC at 16p for 16 tabs.

Some simple maths would show the saving to the NHS if these were taken off prescription.

Other examples I can give are being invoiced for £5.50 for a 50 ml bottle of olive oil - I'm sure we can all find cheaper elsewhere. A ward wanted to buy an electronic blood pressure monitor and were quoted £45, they got the very same machine from Lloyd's pharmacy at £15.

It goes on and on, and the NHS seems to think it gets discounts from having preferred suppliers.

I would oppose people having to pay for OTC medicines though, as I see that as the thin end of the wedge. To me part of the problem is that New Labour were in too many corporate pockets.

Just like it was with the banks though, who is the guilty party the victim for failing to stop them, or the criminals who are making money dishonestly?

Thanks for the reply to my question. It sounds like the NHS should improve the work of people who do its purchasing. This type of incompetence gives ammunition to people who favour privatisation.

For people who pay for prescriptions, if the cost of the drug is less OTC then that's how they should buy them. I agree that a doctor shoulld be able to prescribe an OTC drug to someone exempt from paying.

[steakbake]

I accidentally got Ralgex on my right baw the other week. It really ought to come with some kind of warning.

If a doctor had to rub it on my aching legs instead, at least I'd have someone to blame. Thatcher's Britain... :rolleyes:

[Pretty Boy]

I suffer from Thoaric Outlet Syndrome brought on by a boxing injury. The only treatment for this, until such time as it deteriorates to the stage i require surgery, is light physio work and NSAIFDs. I get prescribed boxes of 500 Ibuprofen at a time and take them 4 times a day. I require 400mg dosages as opposed to the standard supermarket 200mg tablets. The 400mg are available OTC in chemists, they are considerably more expensive than the standard tablets and can only be bought 40 at a time.

From a convenience and cost point of view continuing to receive a prescription for 500 at a atime suits me. It's not a case of wwasting my GPs time by going to him for these prescriptions. Due to the high acidity levels in Iburpofen the long term use has to be monitored quite carefully as it can cause damage to the stomach lining, gastrointestinal bleeding and there is also a slightly increased risk of heart attack with long term use. I'd certainly feel quite uncomfortable if the contact with my GP was taken away and i had to continue the long term use of a drug with a surprisingly high number of side effects.

[RyeSloan]

I'm not quite getting the GP's argument. Surely the reason that Asprin and Paracetamol are the most commonly prescribed drugs is that these are the most effective treatment for the patients the doctors are seeing.

If the NHS is over paying for these drugs then the solution should be to improve the contracts from the suppliers not to stop giving the prescription.

As the last poster has given an example of I would assume most prescriptions for the common OTC drugs are for larger quantity/doses than that you could easily buy OTC.

[Jack]

I'm all for freeing up GPs time in surgery but it's a bit harsh to say patients "know damn fine that's what they need".

They might not know that for sure.

Or they might just want to see the GP for a reassuring word.

That's fine by me.
The GP in question was writing about a recent hot spell in England where hay fever patients were lining up outside her door looking for antihistamines, that was the reference to ‘they knew damn fine’ what they needed. These patients knew what they needed and that it was available, without prescription or a visit to the GP at the local pharmacy. She was probably pee’d off at the number of these folk and probably that they had demanded urgent appointments.

Just think [me thinking out loud] if they had gone direct to the pharmacy, GPs time and NHS drugs budget would have been saved and the patient would have got relief from their hay fever sooner! I dare say 10s of thousands already do it.

The reference to aspirin and paracetamol being in the top 10 prescription drugs was from another source to give an idea of the type and volume of drugs that fell into the ‘heal thyself’ category that are freely available and, as pointed out earlier, cost pennies. It probably costs around £20 for a visit to the GP and add to that the cost of processing the prescription – verses – 16p for a pack of paracetamol after a 10 minute jaunt to Tesco or Lidl, Lidl, Lidl or wherever!


I suffer from Thoaric Outlet Syndrome brought on by a boxing injury. The only treatment for this, until such time as it deteriorates to the stage i require surgery, is light physio work and NSAIFDs. I get prescribed boxes of 500 Ibuprofen at a time and take them 4 times a day. I require 400mg dosages as opposed to the standard supermarket 200mg tablets. The 400mg are available OTC in chemists, they are considerably more expensive than the standard tablets and can only be bought 40 at a time.

From a convenience and cost point of view continuing to receive a prescription for 500 at a atime suits me. It's not a case of wwasting my GPs time by going to him for these prescriptions. Due to the high acidity levels in Iburpofen the long term use has to be monitored quite carefully as it can cause damage to the stomach lining, gastrointestinal bleeding and there is also a slightly increased risk of heart attack with long term use. I'd certainly feel quite uncomfortable if the contact with my GP was taken away and i had to continue the long term use of a drug with a surprisingly high number of side effects.


The very fact you are prescribed non-OTC quantities and strengths of Iburpofen would not put you in the category of folk being discussed. ding ding relax :greengrin, sounds crap what you've got. Unlucky or unfair, someone who is involved in a sport becomes injured like that, I cant make up my mind.

[HibsMax]

Don't know how long you’ve been away HibsMax, OTC means anyone can buy them, nobody is looking to control them just you wouldn’t be able to get them 'free' on the NHS.

The point the GP was making was that prescriptions should only be for drugs that you cannot buy over the counter so you would still need to see a GP, or prescriber, to get them.
:wink: I know what OTC means. What I didn't realise was the "free" part. Thanks to your clarification I understand what is being said now. :) The point being, if you can get the same drug by walking into your pharmacy, why waste precious time and resources going to see a doctor to get the same thing? That makes sense to me. I don't think I've heard of people getting prescribed a drug (over here) that they can buy in the store / pharmacy. I know that you can definitely buy larger doses e.g., you can buy Advil which contains 200mg of ibuprofen, but you can get Advil that contains 800mg of ibuprofen on a prescription. Sod that, I'll just take 4 of the regular pills and get the same effect - and I did just that when I had a wisdom tooth yanked earlier this year. Oh yeah, and some vicodin (didn't work) and some percocet (mmmm, they worked!).