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JimBHibees
05-08-2010, 10:00 PM
I know it has been done to death however why does he appear to be so untouchable as to not be dropped or subbed and still remains captain when he palpably isnt good enough to merit a jersey. When Hart and Murray were subbed it was amazing given that they are both twice the central defender that IMO Hogg is. Hughes IMO doesnt help himself with what appears to be way too much loyalty to some players.

If we are to do anything this season we need to drop him permanentlyand sort out a defence which is leaking goals. I would rather put Hart in there or Murray and play either Wotherspoon or Hanlon as full back with Bamba. It staggers me he continues to play and captain the club when he looks way out of his depth and completely lacking in any form.

Hibee_Lisa
05-08-2010, 10:02 PM
I cannot believe he is still first choice CH for us let alone captain. :boo hoo:

Judas Iscariot
05-08-2010, 10:03 PM
I know it has been done to death however why does he appear to be so untouchable as to not be dropped or subbed and still remains captain when he palpably isnt good enough to merit a jersey. When Hart and Murray were subbed it was amazing given that they are both twice the central defender that IMO Hogg is. Hughes IMO doesnt help himself with what appears to be way too much loyalty to some players.

If we are to do anything this season we need to drop him permanentlyand sort out a defence which is leaking goals. I would rather put Hart in there or Murray and play either Wotherspoon or Hanlon as full back with Bamba. It staggers me he continues to play and captain the club when he looks way out of his depth and completely lacking in any form.

:top marks

Great post!

You'll get his army of clueless followers along defending him just now..

It's funny the ones that rate Hogg also rate Rankin :hmmm:

3pm
05-08-2010, 10:03 PM
I didn't mind Hogg but the last 18 months or so, he has been abysmal. Some would argue even longer than that.

Hibby Bairn
05-08-2010, 10:06 PM
So poor at almost every part of his game. Just so poor.

Toaods
05-08-2010, 10:08 PM
To have played him for 90 mins was IMHO cheating the other lads on the bench + the paying punters.

Del Boy
05-08-2010, 10:09 PM
never rated him as anything more than average, a lot of fans get a hardon for him because of his apparent commitment :confused:

JimBHibees
05-08-2010, 10:10 PM
:top marks

Great post!

You'll get his army of clueless followers along defending him just now..

It's funny the ones that rate Hogg also rate Rankin :hmmm:

I dont think his performances since he became captain are in any way defensible. Maybe the role is too much for him and he needs to be relieved of it. Where I was sitting De Graff seemed to be doing much more shouting and encouraging than our official captain.

Personally much prefer Rankin as he at leasts contributes to the team however he is IMO much more of a squad player.

Thecat23
05-08-2010, 10:12 PM
I heard a classic leaving the game, two older boys talking about him and one said "Hogg is never a CH" his mate then says "He's never a player" then the first boy turns and says "so were would you play him then?" Quick as a flash the old boy says... Tynecastle!! Have to admit i was chuckling away to myself :greengrin

Liberal Hibby
05-08-2010, 10:12 PM
:top marks

Great post!

You'll get his army of clueless followers along defending him just now..

It's funny the ones that rate Hogg also rate Rankin :hmmm:

Yup - we're clueless.

Given he's club captain, has been a first team regular under the last five managers and an under 21 international it's not just me being clueless.

Yes that Tony Mowbray - clueless!
Mark Venus - clueless!
John Collins - clueless!
Mixu Paateleinaan - clueless!
John Hughes - clueless!

Who needs coaching badges or experience when you can simply read Hibs.net and take any old pish spouted against a player and get your coaching badge?

Yes that's the way to do it - let's ignore reality and go with base prejudice and ignorance - that'll see the club right...

JimBHibees
05-08-2010, 10:13 PM
So poor at almost every part of his game. Just so poor.

Scarily accurate personally dont think there is any part of his game he is good at in present form. He isnt quick, he isnt dominant in the air, he cant pass, his control is poor - he must be a dream to play against as a forward.

JimBHibees
05-08-2010, 10:17 PM
Yup - we're clueless.

Given he's club captain, has been a first team regular under the last five managers and an under 21 international it's not just me being clueless.

Yes that Tony Mowbray - clueless!
Mark Venus - clueless!
John Collins - clueless!
Mixu Paateleinaan - clueless!
John Hughes - clueless!

Who needs coaching badges or experience when you can simply read Hibs.net and take any old pish spouted against a player and get your coaching badge?

Yes that's the way to do it - let's ignore reality and go with base prejudice and ignorance - that'll see the club right...

I would love for the guy to be good however think he is awful at present.

Do you honestly think he merits a place in the team never mind as captain given his form in the last year? I think he is probably the weakest player in the team and should be replaced.

I dont think he was a regular under Mowbray and he isnt an u21 international.

Kevvy1875
05-08-2010, 10:18 PM
Yup - we're clueless.

Given he's club captain, has been a first team regular under the last five managers and an under 21 international it's not just me being clueless.

Yes that Tony Mowbray - clueless!
Mark Venus - clueless!
John Collins - clueless!
Mixu Paateleinaan - clueless!
John Hughes - clueless!

Who needs coaching badges or experience when you can simply read Hibs.net and take any old pish spouted against a player and get your coaching badge?

Yes that's the way to do it - let's ignore reality and go with base prejudice and ignorance - that'll see the club right...

Whilst agreeing that Hogg's performance's have not been vintage of late I would have to agree with this post.

Chill pill required, It isnt all Hogg's fault. Find the real scapegoat...the manager. I am sure Yogi would be first to accept that the blame lies at his dooor for the recent form and results. Not one man.

Baldy Foghorn
05-08-2010, 10:25 PM
:top marks

Great post!

You'll get his army of clueless followers along defending him just now..

It's funny the ones that rate Hogg also rate Rankin :hmmm:

So people who rate him are clueless..... are you the fountain of all knowledge then:confused:

hibee-shtuggie
05-08-2010, 10:29 PM
So people who rate him are clueless..... are you the fountain of all knowledge then:confused:
i can categorically say i know enough about football to say that Chris Hogg has been a terrible CH of late, never mind a captain. he bottles it on the big stage every time. he looks like he doesn't want to be there. we need someone to relish the challenges at the back and drive the team forward. he offers nothing as captain or a player

Baldy Foghorn
05-08-2010, 10:29 PM
i can categorically say i know enough about football to say that Chris Hogg has been a terrible CH of late, never mind a captain. he bottles it on the big stage every time. he looks like he doesn't want to be there. we need someone to relish the challenges at the back and drive the team forward. he offers nothing as captain or a player

What do the rest offer as a matter of interest? Not a lot from where I was watching

hibee-shtuggie
05-08-2010, 10:32 PM
What do the rest offer as a matter of interest? Not a lot from where I was watching

you are quite right. hate to pick one out i am just saying Hogg has been offering nothing for ages and he is supposed to be the captain of Hibernian FC. he was no worse than Nish tonight, but that's not saying much. Hart looks shaky but that's maybe because of the formation we are playing( i.e no width) De Graff and Bamba scraped pass marks tonight. Stokes will get there but needs to be a lot sharper. Mcbride and miller were pretty anonymous tonight.

Liberal Hibby
05-08-2010, 10:33 PM
i can categorically say i know enough about football to say that Chris Hogg has been a terrible CH of late, never mind a captain. he bottles it on the big stage every time. he looks like he doesn't want to be there. we need someone to relish the challenges at the back and drive the team forward. he offers nothing as captain or a player

I can categorically state that that I know enough about punctuation that you should start a sentence with a capital letter (unless like me your shift key is a bit dodgy due to a small child hiding banana underneath it).

Baldy Foghorn
05-08-2010, 10:33 PM
you are quite right. hate to pick one out i am just saying Hogg has been offering nothing for ages and he is supposed to be the captain of Hibernian FC. he was no worse than Nish tonight, but that's not saying much. Hart looks shaky but that's maybe because of the formation we are playing( i.e no width) De Graff and Bamba scraped pass marks tonight. Stokes will get there but needs to be a lot sharper. Mcbride and miller were pretty anonymous tonight.

The team was poor as a whole.....

No width, no urgency, no imagination.......

Hiber-nation
05-08-2010, 10:35 PM
As a professional, great, appears to lead by example, live his life the right way etc etc. Always gives his all. Doesn't go out on the lash or come back late from Internationals (ok, I know....)

But surely he is simply never ever good enough for a top 6 SPL club.

hibee-shtuggie
05-08-2010, 10:42 PM
I can categorically state that that I know enough about punctuation that you should start a sentence with a capital letter (unless like me your shift key is a bit dodgy due to a small child hiding banana underneath it).

Apologies, i am in full flow rant mode.

Baldy Foghorn
05-08-2010, 10:43 PM
We were discussing this on the way home(early)..I would keep
Bamba
Miller
Murray

Put up with
Riordan
Stokes

Dutch guy .. Need a few games to decide.
That's it!

Bamba wants to leave, Murray's pace has deserted him, and Miller is a big time Charlie with no heart......

Toaods
05-08-2010, 10:44 PM
I thought we started off pretty well- they were wary of us getting an early goal and we were wary of losing one too.

Lost all forward momentum when Hoggy ran out of confidence in his own ability to return teh ball under pressure to Smith and decided to turn into one of their guys and lost possession.

Next thing you know we're a goal down - yes poor marking but the ball should have been in play at least half way up the park before then.

joebakerforever
05-08-2010, 10:48 PM
Yup - we're clueless.

Given he's club captain, has been a first team regular under the last five managers and an under 21 international it's not just me being clueless.

Yes that Tony Mowbray - clueless!
Mark Venus - clueless!
John Collins - clueless!
Mixu Paateleinaan - clueless!
John Hughes - clueless!

Who needs coaching badges or experience when you can simply read Hibs.net and take any old pish spouted against a player and get your coaching badge?

Yes that's the way to do it - let's ignore reality and go with base prejudice and ignorance - that'll see the club right...


Before telling others they are ignorant, you should ensure that your facts are correct, namely Hogg never played, nor was selected, for England at under-21 level.


Irrespective of past deeds, over the past two years to the present, Hogg has been consistently rank rotten.

Sure he probably has a good attitude and trains diligently, but when it comes to playing competitive matches, he is more often than not is found wanting and is a liability to the defence.

No doubt the rest of the SPL will be rubbing their hands with glee, knowing that this soft touch will still be turning out for us.

McKenzie
05-08-2010, 11:23 PM
http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by A Regulator http://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=2536033#post2536033)
We were discussing this on the way home(early)..I would keep
Bamba
Miller
Murray

Put up with
Riordan
Stokes

Dutch guy .. Need a few games to decide.
That's it!
No thanks :bitchy:

Hibby 2005
05-08-2010, 11:30 PM
Yogi's first mistake was making hin Captain. Not long after that he dropped him, says it all really.

madabouthibs
05-08-2010, 11:51 PM
Bamba i'd gladly keep, Riordan too. Stokes decent poacher type, Miller? Jeez, i can't believe he's played for Celtic and Man U.......

ekhibee
06-08-2010, 12:00 AM
What do the rest offer as a matter of interest? Not a lot from where I was watching
Well you wouldn't have been watching Steven Thicot, yet again it seems he is not in Hughes' plans and yet has performed well nearly every time he's been asked to play at centre-half. He's a far more talented player in my opinion than Hogg will ever be. I also hope that if he does get a run in the team, at centre half, that you will be as supportive of him as you are of a player that has been off form for quite some time now, and has been given many more chances. I know you will of course.

Hainan Hibs
06-08-2010, 12:01 AM
If I see Hogg's name on the team sheet again I'm putting on some Crowded House "Don't Dream It's Over" and having a right good greet. It's that depressing now.

jonny
06-08-2010, 12:11 AM
I know it has been done to death however why does he appear to be so untouchable as to not be dropped or subbed and still remains captain when he palpably isnt good enough to merit a jersey. When Hart and Murray were subbed it was amazing given that they are both twice the central defender that IMO Hogg is. Hughes IMO doesnt help himself with what appears to be way too much loyalty to some players.

If we are to do anything this season we need to drop him permanentlyand sort out a defence which is leaking goals. I would rather put Hart in there or Murray and play either Wotherspoon or Hanlon as full back with Bamba. It staggers me he continues to play and captain the club when he looks way out of his depth and completely lacking in any form.

I can only but assume this thread is one of those set to wind others up and test a bit of nerve. Chris Hogg is a hard working competitive strong club captain. I think he should rightly be the 1st name on the teamsheet - IMO he is the player who tries hardest throughout the squad. He doesnt get every decision right but then who does? Hoggy would be my 1st choice as captain and I can not understand those who consistantly play him down as the basil brush of the club. Id much sooner have Murray or McBride booted into touch than our much debated captain. By the way - i thought amongst all, Hogg and Riordan were immense tonight.

davym7062
06-08-2010, 12:20 AM
I heard a classic leaving the game, two older boys talking about him and one said "Hogg is never a CH" his mate then says "He's never a player" then the first boy turns and says "so were would you play him then?" Quick as a flash the old boy says... Tynecastle!! Have to admit i was chuckling away to myself :greengrin

hoy that was me. less of the old boy. i may have looked old after that right enough :greengrin

davym7062
06-08-2010, 12:24 AM
hogg is murder. the fact is hes played for hibs for 4/5 year and no other club wants to buy him says it all

Liberal Hibby
06-08-2010, 12:27 AM
hogg is murder. the fact is hes played for hibs for 4/5 year and no other club wants to buy him says it all

So you're happy if we sell our best players then?

davym7062
06-08-2010, 12:31 AM
So you're happy if we sell our best players then?

ffs of course not but its hibs we support not man u. if we have a good player somene wants to buy him. but nobody wants to buy chris hogg. i wonder why:confused:

Liberal Hibby
06-08-2010, 12:38 AM
ffs of course not but its hibs we support not man u. if we have a good player somene wants to buy him. but nobody wants to buy chris hogg. i wonder why:confused:

Maybe we don't want to sell him?

broonie27
06-08-2010, 12:53 AM
hogg is murder. the fact is hes played for hibs for 4/5 year and no other club wants to buy him says it all

:top marks

I've been thinking that for the last few years. What happens to any half decent player at ER? They go elsewhere.

Riordan, O'Connor, Brown, Whittaker, Thomson, Jones, Murphy, have all been seen as good players but another manger. Alas, Hogg has not - QED.

ekhibee
06-08-2010, 12:53 AM
So you're happy if we sell our best players then?
you think he is one of our best players?

Cameron1875
06-08-2010, 02:25 AM
My god chris hogg isnt a great player but he was nowhere near the worst on the park. I am not his biggest fan but he stuck his head on everything tonight. If he gets dropped the problems dont go away.

I am more concerned with how many goals smith lets in and how uneasy the defence are due to him not shouting and making them panic.

Gus
06-08-2010, 03:33 AM
hogg will never win over people,but sadly his game since being made captain of got worse and worse every week so why should people change their mind. as for miller, yes he has played at some top clubs, but he soon got found out, he was a gamble signing, marquee if u like that quite simply hasnt come off, no one else wanted him

any how, i think hogg should be dropped,same with smith, thicot and brown to be given a run and then just sack yogi and bring back mixu - all is forgiven

KiddA
06-08-2010, 05:46 AM
I really do not understand why Hogg plays week in week out as he is a total bomb scare at the back. He must be doing something special in training either that or he is Yogi's love child :wink:

Joking aside he has to be dropped again and told to find a new club and being realistic he could be a huge part of Yogi loosing his job in the long run if kept in the team. Yes there are other players in the team that are suspect but Hogg has been rank for a very long spell and I honestly can't remember when he had an outstanding game. The difference with the other suspects they have been known to have some good games ie Miller who was outstanding at the start of last season and dare I say it Rankin and Nish even though I think Rankin and Nish should move on too as there form is not consistent enough.

Hogg to me does not want to play for Hibs and is feeling the pressure of being captain. When you compare him even to our last captain Rob Jones he is night and day. I know Jones is not everyones cup of tea but at least he played with heart and mixed it up a bit with other players and bossed players around. I always loved how Jones used to noise certain players up including the likes of Hartley and Kenny Miller.

I think if Yogi dropped Hogg and gave someone like De Graff the captains band it might take some pressure of Yogi and also give maybe Thicot or Stephens a wee run in the team. I am in agreement with some of the posts Thicot has looked better than Hogg when he has played so why not play him and give him a run.

Time will tell but it is time for Yogi to start rocking the boat or Yogi will be sacked by Christmas or maybe sooner if he does not start making major changes now :agree:

davym7062
06-08-2010, 07:22 AM
I can only but assume this thread is one of those set to wind others up and test a bit of nerve. Chris Hogg is a hard working competitive strong club captain. I think he should rightly be the 1st name on the teamsheet - IMO he is the player who tries hardest throughout the squad. He doesnt get every decision right but then who does? Hoggy would be my 1st choice as captain and I can not understand those who consistantly play him down as the basil brush of the club. Id much sooner have Murray or McBride booted into touch than our much debated captain. By the way - i thought amongst all, Hogg and Riordan were immense tonight.

are ur eyes painted on?? immense??? :boo hoo:

Judas Iscariot
06-08-2010, 07:31 AM
I can only but assume this thread is one of those set to wind others up and test a bit of nerve. Chris Hogg is a hard working competitive strong club captain. I think he should rightly be the 1st name on the teamsheet - IMO he is the player who tries hardest throughout the squad. He doesnt get every decision right but then who does? Hoggy would be my 1st choice as captain and I can not understand those who consistantly play him down as the basil brush of the club. Id much sooner have Murray or McBride booted into touch than our much debated captain. By the way - i thought amongst all, Hogg and Riordan were immense tonight.

Your at the wind up eh?

TornadoHibby
06-08-2010, 07:35 AM
Yup - we're clueless.

Given he's club captain, has been a first team regular under the last five managers and an under 21 international it's not just me being clueless.

Yes that Tony Mowbray - clueless!
Mark Venus - clueless!
John Collins - clueless!
Mixu Paateleinaan - clueless!
John Hughes - clueless!

Who needs coaching badges or experience when you can simply read Hibs.net and take any old pish spouted against a player and get your coaching badge?

Yes that's the way to do it - let's ignore reality and go with base prejudice and ignorance - that'll see the club right...

:top marks

Now that is a GOOD post which is, at least, factual! :agree:

Judas Iscariot
06-08-2010, 07:38 AM
:top marks

Now that is a GOOD post which is, at least, factual! :agree:

Factual apart from the fact he never ever played for the England U21's :cool2:

BT58
06-08-2010, 07:52 AM
i think we scored about 54 last year, but we had a + factor of maybe 2
what has JH done to rectify the problem?????? Hart and an 18 year old, do me a favor,

FFS, JH was a former CH +LEADER on the park, what exactly, do they do at east mains????
hoggy is getting it big time, but the WHOLE defence needs looked at
b

Danderhall Hibs
06-08-2010, 09:06 AM
:top marks

Now that is a GOOD post which is, at least, factual! :agree:

Apart from the facts that he's not an under-21 international and that Mowbray didn't play him regularly, nor can Mark Venus be used as an example of a manager that played him regularly!

JimBHibees
06-08-2010, 09:08 AM
So you're happy if we sell our best players then?

Except he is nowhere near being one of our best players.

Danderhall Hibs
06-08-2010, 09:10 AM
Maybe we don't want to sell him?

:tee hee: Yip that's why he's still here.

JimBHibees
06-08-2010, 09:10 AM
hoy that was me. less of the old boy. i may have looked old after that right enough :greengrin

Classic. Sounds like you were on form last night auld yin. :greengrin

JimBHibees
06-08-2010, 09:13 AM
I can only but assume this thread is one of those set to wind others up and test a bit of nerve. Chris Hogg is a hard working competitive strong club captain. I think he should rightly be the 1st name on the teamsheet - IMO he is the player who tries hardest throughout the squad. He doesnt get every decision right but then who does? Hoggy would be my 1st choice as captain and I can not understand those who consistantly play him down as the basil brush of the club. Id much sooner have Murray or McBride booted into touch than our much debated captain. By the way - i thought amongst all, Hogg and Riordan were immense tonight.

:faf::faf:

A wind up or a Yam wanting Hoggy to stay in the team. :greengrin

Anto the Hibernian
06-08-2010, 09:25 AM
Yup - we're clueless.

Given he's club captain, has been a first team regular under the last five managers and an under 21 international it's not just me being clueless.

Yes that Tony Mowbray - clueless!
Mark Venus - clueless!
John Collins - clueless!
Mixu Paateleinaan - clueless!
John Hughes - clueless!

Who needs coaching badges or experience when you can simply read Hibs.net and take any old pish spouted against a player and get your coaching badge?

Yes that's the way to do it - let's ignore reality and go with base prejudice and ignorance - that'll see the club right...

:agree: Bang on...it was the same with Gary Caldwell , a player rated & played by consecutive Hibs managers as well as Celtic/Scotland & who now plies his trade in the premiership......but acording to the majority on here he was'nt good enough to warrant a Hibs jersey, please explain that one to me ?

Are we really saying all these managers are wrong and faceless wonders of .net are correct ?

Think about it

FWIW i have reservations about Hogg as captain & he certainly is no world beater, but he's a capable Centrehalf with SPL experience and as such is worth a place in our team, he also (like Caldwell) takes responsibility and has a good attitude, qualities which few fans appreciate but quite clearly Managers do.

Danderhall Hibs
06-08-2010, 09:26 AM
:agree: Bang on...it was the same with Gary Caldwell , a player rated & played by consecutive Hibs managers as well as Celtic/Scotland & who now plies his trade in the premiership......but acording to the majority on here he was'nt good enough to warrant a Hibs jersey, please explain that one to me ?

Are we really saying all these managers are wrong and faceless wonders of .net are correct ?

Think about it

FWIW i have reservations about Hogg as captain & he certainly is no world beater, but he's a capable Centrehalf with SPL experience and as such is worth a place in our team, he also (like Caldwell) takes responsibility and has a good attitude, qualities which few fans appreciate but quite clearly Managers do.

Let's phone Wigan or Celtic and offer him to them for a couple of million then. No doubt they'll snap our hand off.

ackeygraham
06-08-2010, 09:33 AM
Hogg was murder polis. His distribution left little to be desired and had a heid like a fifty pence piece last night. When he did head it straight it was weak and mostly to a Maribor player.

It was summed up when his mis judged the ball again, had to then chase the player up the wing and made a comical challenge and fell over himself - comical genuis.

Lets see this new boy Stephens at CH. I dont want fancy defenders, just basics of defence by head or feet...leave the fancy stuff to midfield....but again thats another post :greengrin

New Captain Please!!!

M11BMO
06-08-2010, 09:37 AM
Never in my life have I ever seen a club captain of any football club so low on confidence.

I think Hogg needs to realise that he's doing himself and the team no favours by remaining captain.

:bitchy:

Perspective
06-08-2010, 09:40 AM
I feel sorry for Hogg and think he's suffering like Stephen McManus did latterly at Celtic.

Guys like that patch themselves up to play for the team when they are clearly not fit. It's OK doing it for the odd time but the longer it goes on the more damage you do to yourself and the more your reputation suffers because you're obviously not performing at 100%. I've seen him so often after games at ER barely even able to hobble out to his car and I wonder how many others in the team would show the same commitment.

I don't think he's particularly great, but he's a model pro who has never let the club down in my eyes. He deserves to be in the team until we sign someone better (as with all players) and I don't believe there's anyone in the squad, at present, ready to step in. Some of the cheap jibes aimed at him are pathetic IMHO.

blackpoolhibs
06-08-2010, 09:49 AM
Never in my life have I ever seen a club captain of any football club so low on ABILITY.

I think Hogg needs to realise that he's doing himself and the team no favours by remaining captain.

:bitchy:

Corrected that for you. i remember some numpty posted on here, Hoggs played for the under 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 england teams, he's a future England international. I laughed then, i'm crying now. :boo hoo:

Kev
06-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Hogg's form has been poor of late and his distribution very similar to the hoof ball played by our inferior neighbours. One thing ive noticed since turn of the year though that McBride and especially Miller rarely demand the ball from Hogg when he has it. They are more than willing to either take it and play it straight back, or let him lump it up the park to no one inparticular!

JimBHibees
06-08-2010, 10:04 AM
Corrected that for you. i remember some numpty posted on here, Hoggs played for the under 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 england teams, he's a future England international. I laughed then, i'm crying now. :boo hoo:

Are you sure he was an u5 internationalist? :greengrin

M11BMO
06-08-2010, 10:14 AM
Corrected that for you. i remember some numpty posted on here, Hoggs played for the under 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 england teams, he's a future England international. I laughed then, i'm crying now. :boo hoo:

Thanks for that. Do you have any spare tissues? I finished all mine last season. :boo hoo:

Brads Laing
06-08-2010, 11:32 AM
There is o way he should be captain, it was an awful decision. Last year i would have given it to murray, but we can't guarantee this year he'll be a permanent starter, IMO i would give it to Miller.