Our realistic prospects

[Gerard]

If Jh continues to manage the team and does not sign any more players where will we probably finish in the SPL table.
Gerard:wink:

[pentlando]

If anything the summer transfers can only have strengthened so i would expect at least top 4 again. Hart looks a good addition and a solid rb, and de graaf should add something in midfield once he settles. We have plently goals in the side and if we can start keeping them out can only go on and have a good season.

As for all this anti-yogi pish in comparisons to other recent managers he aint doing so bad, Mowbrays side would've crumbled in slovenia and mixu's teams would get nowhere near the airport.

[Mango Man]

Hate to say it it, but i think we are going to have a very frustrating season ahead. Not really seen or heard anything that makes me think we are going to be any different from the 2nd half of last season. Really really hope I'm wrong though. There's just been to many Abysmal results happening of late. I predict a struggle for the toap 6.

Maybe we just need a bit more time to get a settled team Gelling together. A couple of new signings could bring the hope back up though. :thumbsup:

[Franck is God]

I think that we will be playing for 3rd or 4th at the end of the season.

De Graaf & Hart have added extra quality to the defence and midfield, Stephens is a definite prospect for the future. Hanlon and Wotherspoon both have a full SPL season under their belt now and the likes of Byrne, Welsh, Currie & Moyes a year on are more likely to be challenging for a first team spot this season too.

I'd rather see Bamba play the season and leave next summer on a free, we may get a good fee but doubt we will get another centre half as good as him that will be within our wage budget. If he does go though I would imagine Yogi has a second list of players that he'd like to sign including Alan Gow.

[Mikeystewart]

If Jh continues to manage the team and does not sign any more players where will we probably finish in the SPL table.
Gerard:wink:

Dont want to sound like im comparing to much. In Mowbray's first season he had a pretty patchy start to pre season and i dont think we won a home game till October or November. I will reserve my final judgement until December at the earliest. Unless by that time we are 10-12th

on top of that he had signed a fair few players boozy hogg murphy rocastle sheils etc. It wouldn't surprise me if it take a couple more months to gell. We are turning into old firm fans. Expecting instant success through brand new signings.

[Gatecrasher]

i think we will finish 5th

[Wilson]

Think last season but without the blistering start.

I believe that we are well behind the Arabs and that FJK and Craig Brown (with the respective squads at their disposal) have the beating of Yogi and his Hibs side.

We'll be lucky to get 6th.

[.Sean.]

We certainly need another striker, we'll need another 2 if the Stokes/Riordan rumour is to be believed.

[iwasthere1972]

If Jh continues to manage the team and does not sign any more players where will we probably finish in the SPL table.
Gerard:wink:

I've got a fiver on that we finish in the top 12.

[Speedway]

Ultimately I think that, teams who get fewer points than us this season stand every chance of finishing below us in the table come May 2011.

[Sir David Gray]

I don't think our current squad is good enough to get into the top four again. I haven't see anything at all in the past six months or so that suggests we can start the season off well and I think we'll be battling it out for a top six place with the likes of St Johnstone and Aberdeen.

There's still a month to go in the transfer window, though, so if we can bring in four or five players over the next few weeks then who knows?

[Expecting Rain]

5th

[borstalboy]

I think a saving grace for us is that no other SPL team outwith Dundee United look like they're going to seriously mount a challenge to 3rd. Then again, Dundee United's pre-season hasn't exactly gone to plan.....maybe they'll have a few players now thinking their 'billy big time'.

[Speedway]

I don't think our current squad is good enough to get into the top four again. I haven't see anything at all in the past six months or so that suggests we can start the season off well and I think we'll be battling it out for a top six place with the likes of St Johnstone and Aberdeen.

There's still a month to go in the transfer window, though, so if we can bring in four or five players over the next few weeks then who knows?

:greengrin

[Sylar]

2nd - The Old Firm will be split this year, as Rangers have lost FAR too many key players. :devil:

On paper, we have a squad capable of sustaining a high octane season, but the reality never quite pans out that way mind you, so perhaps 5th or 6th is more reasonable.

I do believe someone will split the OF this year though :agree:

p.s. - I wonder how long before someone from across the road will quote my top line, without the smilie and further context, and create a thread having a laugh about some peg-selling hobo thinking we can finish second.

[cabbageandribs1875]

As for all this anti-yogi pish in comparisons to other recent managers he aint doing so bad, Mowbrays side would've crumbled in slovenia and mixu's teams would get nowhere near the airport.


seriously ? :confused: ok :rolleyes:

[Diclonius]

Hate to say it, doom and gloomers, but I think we'll finish 4th/5th again. We have a good enough squad and our manager isn't the footballing Antichrist some on here paint him out to be. :yawn:

[Seveno]

Let's face it - if we win the SPL, the Europa League and beat Hearts 16-0 in the Scottish Cup Final, some inhabitants of this Forum will still moan and demand that Yogi is sacked.

For once in our 135 year history, let's be positive, stop abusing players and give the Manager a break.

[mmmmhibby]

If Jh continues to manage the team and does not sign any more players where will we probably finish in the SPL table.
Gerard:wink:


if our manager wakes up and stops playing rankin and mcbride then we have a chance of doing well...lets face it there both 1st division players IMO.

[Twa Cairpets]

if our manager wakes up and stops playing rankin and mcbride then we have a chance of doing well...lets face it there both 1st division players IMO.

This will be the same McBride, who, prior to getting injured last season, was almost universally acknowledged as being the shewdest buy for years, and held the midfield together superbly? That one?

Memory of goldfishes some folk.

[Twa Cairpets]

Think last season but without the blistering start.

I believe that we are well behind the Arabs and that FJK and Craig Brown (with the respective squads at their disposal) have the beating of Yogi and his Hibs side.

We'll be lucky to get 6th.

Away and bile yer heid.

[bawheid]

Let's face it - if we win the SPL, the Europa League and beat Hearts 16-0 in the Scottish Cup Final, some inhabitants of this Forum will still moan and demand that Yogi is sacked.

For once in our 135 year history, let's be positive, stop abusing players and give the Manager a break.

:thumbsup:


This will be the same McBride, who, prior to getting injured last season, was almost universally acknowledged as being the shewdest buy for years, and held the midfield together superbly? That one?

Memory of goldfishes some folk.

:thumbsup:


Away and bile yer heid.

:thumbsup:

We'll win the league at a canter. Have you seen the OF's pre-season results so far??

[Spike Mandela]

This will be the same McBride, who, prior to getting injured last season, was almost universally acknowledged as being the shewdest buy for years, and held the midfield together superbly? That one?

Memory of goldfishes some folk.


Hardly universally. I agree with mmmmhibby and most of the Falkirk fans. McBride is a lower league standard, negative, back passing and buck passing midfielder who is as limited as Rankin.

Our midfield needed a major overhaul this summer and signing one midfielder isn't the answer.

[Steve20]

There are still a few positions need sorting out. If we were to bring in 2 or 3 more, without losing any key players then we will be challenging for 3rd or 4th.

I doubt this will happen, so I expect 6th.

[Twa Cairpets]

Hardly universally. I agree with mmmmhibby and most of the Falkirk fans. McBride is a lower league standard, negative, back passing and buck passing midfielder who is as limited as Rankin.

Our midfield needed a major overhaul this summer and signing one midfielder isn't the answer.

I beg to differ. I cant be arsed trawling back through threads, but I would be confident to suggest that there was very little "get him back to Falkirk he's garbage" pre-injury (and not too much post injury, come to think of it). Rankins not a world beater, but he's a good player to have in a squad at a club like Hibs - in some types of games he's the ideal type of player to have, in others, I wouldn't play him.

But back on McBride - your analysis is fundamentally flawed. Just take ten minutes out to watch him any game. Always looking to be available, always looking to be the out-ball for players getting into trouble, playing in a role where he is meant to be a spolier of other teams attacks and to get control of the ball back for his team. This is what his job is. You may not like that type of player, or teams that play that system but he does it more than competently.

But then again I keep forgetting that we should be full of world cup stars. We're Hibs, and we get the players that are bang on for where we are - an upper middle team in a skint league in a footballing outpost with the misfortune to be neighbours to the richest league system in the World, where truly mediocre (and much smaller) lower level teams can pay far in excess of what we can.

[Dashing Bob S]

This 'will struggle to get into top six' is nonsense, or have we moved into La Liga instead of the SPL?

I think we'll be a bit behind Dundee Utd, though not as much as last season, and scraping with the Yams for 4th spot and the right to get pummeled in Eastern Europe after one tie.

I might revise that view upwards, if we make more signings, but we're solidly in the 3-5 range right now, and I don't think there will be a great deal between 3 and 5.

[HibeeSince85]

Could end up with the same top 4 as last season I think, Celtic should take the league, Hibs and Utd fighting for third, Hearts/Motherwell making up the top 6.

I'm obviously no happy with the way pre season and the euro tie have went but we still have one of the strongest squads outside the old firm in the SPL and that should see us through.

[Sir David Gray]

This 'will struggle to get into top six' is nonsense, or have we moved into La Liga instead of the SPL?

I think we'll be a bit behind Dundee Utd, though not as much as last season, and scraping with the Yams for 4th spot and the right to get pummeled in Eastern Europe after one tie.

I might revise that view upwards, if we make more signings, but we're solidly in the 3-5 range right now, and I don't think there will be a great deal between 3 and 5.

4th place might not get into Europe next season. We have lost a Champions League place, which means that the 2nd and 3rd placed sides in the SPL, plus the Scottish Cup winners, will qualify for the 2011/12 Europa League.

The only ways in which the 4th placed team this season will qualify for Europe next season is if the 2nd and 3rd placed sides play each other in the Scottish Cup final or if 2nd/3rd beats a lower ranked side in the Scottish Cup final.

I think...:cool2:

[bawheid]

4th place might not get into Europe next season. We have lost a Champions League place, which means that the 2nd and 3rd placed sides in the SPL, plus the Scottish Cup winners, will qualify for the 2011/12 Europa League.

The only ways in which the 4th placed team this season will qualify for Europe next season is if the 2nd and 3rd placed sides play each other in the Scottish Cup final or if 2nd/3rd beats a lower ranked side in the Scottish Cup final.

I think...:cool2:

Europe's sooooo 1950s anyway...

[Spike Mandela]

I
But back on McBride - your analysis is fundamentally flawed. Just take ten minutes out to watch him any game. Always looking to be available, always looking to be the out-ball for players getting into trouble, playing in a role where he is meant to be a spolier of other teams attacks and to get control of the ball back for his team. This is what his job is. You may not like that type of player, or teams that play that system but he does it more than competently.

But then again I keep forgetting that we should be full of world cup stars. .

Have watched him in every game he's played, pretty much. For most of last season our midfield was outpassed and outplayed so not much of a 'spoiler' really.

I do appreciate that style of play but don't think McBride is a great exponent of that. Not saying we should be full of World Cup stars but I do think Rankin and McBride are very ordinary and only rarely play a decent game. If you want Hibs to improve we have to aspire to better players than this, but if it is all we can afford right now well we have to expect mediocre performances most of the time.

[Hibstrooper]

But back on McBride - your analysis is fundamentally flawed. Just take ten minutes out to watch him any game. Always looking to be available, always looking to be the out-ball for players getting into trouble, playing in a role where he is meant to be a spolier of other teams attacks and to get control of the ball back for his team. This is what his job is. You may not like that type of player, or teams that play that system but he does it more than competently.

The issue with the part I've highlighted is I can't recall McBride making many tackles or actually being a good tackler or a midfield bully so not sure he fits the bill for this role.

Sure he can take the ball and pass it to the next player but he doesn't make the killer pass or ever quickly turn defence into attack. It's almost as if Yogi is basing the style of the team around McBride's game which is why we look so short on pace.

He was given a massive responsiblity in the Maribor away game and you constantly saw McBride coming deep for the ball and splitting the centre half's allowing the full backs to push up. However because he hasn't got a great passing range or pace to run with the ball all he was doing was either giving it to either Hogg/Hanlon or giving it to Miller or Rankin only to get it right back again to give it to Hogg/Hanlon.

So in short I don't think he adds too much offensively or defensively so I would sacrafice him for the game on Thursday.

[Sunny1875]

I expect we will be in for a long slog for a top 12 finish.

Rangers are old, skint and weak but will still get results.
Celtic to win league, pushed by Motherwell, Dundee Utd and 5 others.
Hearts to be deducted points for administration, and yamfuddery.

so in conclusion top 11 finish 1 to 4 would be good 4 to 8 more likely below 8 and then we would want to get rid of players / management and start again.

[Sir David Gray]

I expect we will be in for a long slog for a top 12 finish.

Rangers are old, skint and weak but will still get results.
Celtic to win league, pushed by Motherwell, Dundee Utd and 5 others.
Hearts to be deducted points for administration, and yamfuddery.

so in conclusion top 11 finish 1 to 4 would be good 4 to 8 more likely below 8 and then we would want to get rid of players / management and start again.

If we finish any lower than 6th then I would demand for the management team and most of the players to leave with immediate effect.

There is no way that anyone connected with Hibs should even contemplate finishing in the bottom six. With the way things are now at the club off the pitch, finishing any lower than 6th would just be ridiculous.

[vahibbie]

Europe's sooooo 1950s anyway...

:faf: Made me laugh anyway.

[The_Todd]

Head thinks 6th, with fewer points than the team in 7th.

Having said that, heart thinks we could easily finish 3rd as we're forgetting how equally p*** our opposition are in the SPL.

[Cabbage1875]

Hardly universally. I agree with mmmmhibby and most of the Falkirk fans. McBride is a lower league standard, negative, back passing and buck passing midfielder who is as limited as Rankin.

Our midfield needed a major overhaul this summer and signing one midfielder isn't the answer.

Absolutely ten out of ten spot on :top marks

Our midfield is where our biggest problems lie for me. They dont support the defence and they dont support the strikers nor pitch in with enough goals.

There is a lack of tackling power and I've seen snails faster than them as well.

I know folk will say 'but Riordan and Stokes scored 41 goals between them' but if we're all honest with ourselves they were feeding off half chances (Stokes) and producing moments of utter magic (Deek) and we dont create nearly enough chances in open play.

[Twa Cairpets]

Have watched him in every game he's played, pretty much. For most of last season our midfield was outpassed and outplayed so not much of a 'spoiler' really.

I do appreciate that style of play but don't think McBride is a great exponent of that. Not saying we should be full of World Cup stars but I do think Rankin and McBride are very ordinary and only rarely play a decent game. If you want Hibs to improve we have to aspire to better players than this, but if it is all we can afford right now well we have to expect mediocre performances most of the time.

Im not saying he's on the brink of a move to Man City or Barca, but he does what he is asked to do. There is a difference between a Matty Jack style tackler and a player playing in the spoiler role. Intercepting passes, closing down, holding up play to allow other midfielders time to ge tback and cover and the defense to set themselves. Thats what he is employed to do, and he does it at the very least competently. At the start of the season he got the ball and gave it to Miller who did the clever stuff. Miller slumped, so the effectiveness of the pairing faded.

The reason Im banging in about this is that its very easy but very knee-jerk to chuck out "he's not good enough" lines, with what appears almost to be a malicious pride, without ever actually thinking about what is being typed.

[hfc1875x]

If we dont improve on the form shown in the 2nd half of last season we will not make the top 6. From what I've seen so far we are no better than the form of last season.
The drastic surgery I expected over the close season has not materialised.
Lets hope Yogi can turn it around and have us fighting for a Europa place.

[SRHibs]

Everyone bangs on about McBride, Miller etc being quality, but tbh I can barely think of a single game last season where we actually controlled the midfield.

Would have De Graaf accompanying Miller in the middle of the park if we're going to be playing 4 in midfield, as I don't think McBride is that great; I do think he's worth keeping in the squad though.
Rankin is awful and should be nowhere near our starting line-up.

Personally I'd like to see this team -


Brown
Hart - Bamba - Hanlon - Murray
Wotherspoon/Zemmama - De Graaf - Miller - Galbraith(or a new ML)
-----------Riordan
Stokes


Anyway, I think we'll be in amongst the Top 6 next season. Don't think we're close to Dundee United in terms of the strength of our squad, so 4th is probably our best bet.

[Turnip]

I fancy us for 3rd, and i'll be putting a wee bet on that too, optomism is great for the soul, some of you lot should give it a try.

[mjhibby]

Let's face it - if we win the SPL, the Europa League and beat Hearts 16-0 in the Scottish Cup Final, some inhabitants of this Forum will still moan and demand that Yogi is sacked.

For once in our 135 year history, let's be positive, stop abusing players and give the Manager a break.

As nishy said we are only happy when we are moaning.All this talk of bottom six is hogwash.Hertz are weaker than last season and their lack of strikers will tell as the season goes on.Motherwell im sure will start well but brown was getting found out towards the end of the season and i cant see them ,without the players they have lost,finishing higher than 6th.The arabs on paper look the best bet for 3rd but maybe the loss of webster and the dreaded curse of finishing 3rd then failing the next season might strike.The pressure will be on them from the media so lets see if they handle it.The dons i cannot see even making the top six with the squad they have.St johnstone i thought could beak into the top six so will wait and see on that.No team in the spl has had a good preseason(unless you consider wells euro results)so is every supporter to be downbeat for the season ahead.Hertz have lost 3-1 to the pars and were stuffed at home by wolves who arent exactly a top premier side.Our preseason we know about.
The arabs have drawn with glentoran and lost to hull.Inverness lost to a conference side the dons to brighton,st mirren to a part time irish team etc etc etc.Its preseason and while we have had a euro tie unfortunately its still preaseason.Whether the team should have started back a week earlier is another argument but lets wait until the season starts before making judgements.Right now no fan of any spl team is confident going into the season(or is they say they are they are bluffing)preaseon has been all doom and gloom but somebodys team will win the league,get into europe in the top six and be relegated.If i was a betting man id say hibs will finish between 4th and 5th and the bookies have us at those odds.There is still time to get another couple of signings in but they will take a good while to get used to their teammates Considering the ibjuries hertz have and the chances are that driver and kyle will miss a huge part of the season then anybody predicting a good season for hertz needs their heads examined.Even with those two,who both hardly played last season,they are still an average side who all the top sides will be comfartable against and in preseason hertz are losing a lot of goals which must be a worry for fjk as the forward line is non existant.Mind you were not scoring which must concern yogi.Predicting a season ahead is alwayd difficult and i will wait until after the first 6 games to see how we will do.Well away and rangers at home the first two games looks a hard start to me but we have a good record at well and its probably the best time to get rangers.
Lets just for once be positive and think that degaaf will start influencing games more that others than deek will score(stokes is bound to imho so) and that bamba comes back in and we are more solid.Everybody is nervous/excited for the season ahead so lets be upbeat for now.There is plenty of time for whinging if/when it doesnt pan out how we want it.Large rant over.

[erskine-hibby]

I feel the squad is good enough to finish in the top four. Unfortunately Yogi has only got a plan 'A' and this was found out in the latter part of last season. It seems that, thus far, he still hasn't got a plan 'B'....so...probably struggle and finish 6th or maybe 5th.

[johnrebus]

We will scrape into the top six, behind Hearts.........,

John Hughes should have been sacked after the 6-6 game, but qualifying for Europe - by beating a Dundee United reserve team - only served to paper over the cracks.

These cracks are now already verging on gaping wounds.

Yogi has signed some good players, that is of no doubt. Outside of the O.F. we have arguably the best squad in the SPL on paper. Unfortunately the game is played on grass.......,

Sad to say but the evidence over the last few months shows that he just does not have what it takes to manage Hibernian Football club.

1. He does not play the strongest team consistently, leaving some of our best players on the bench.

2. His tatical ability and use of substitutes is woeful.

3. He constantly plays players out of position.

4. The same old rubbish spouted to the press after every bad game is becoming tedious and embarrasing.

5. He does not appear to carry any real gravatas or control in the dressing room. Think of the Bamba situation, or the ridiculous fining of Derek Riordan for daring to tell the truth about the state of the ER pitch.


I have nothing personal against Yogi, and if things do go wrong I hope he doesn't get the type of abuse that Mixu had to endure, which was scandulous to be honest.


Leave now John, you know it makes sense.



And get Derek McInnes in to replace him.


:agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

I feel the squad is good enough to finish in the top four. Unfortunately Yogi has only got a plan 'A' and this was found out in the latter part of last season. It seems that, thus far, he still hasn't got a plan 'B'....so...probably struggle and finish 6th or maybe 5th.

Plab B didnae work in Maribor, we went back to plan A in carlisle but they couldn't score?????

[Captain Trips]

Plab B didnae work in Maribor, we went back to plan A in carlisle but they couldn't score?????

BH I really hope that wasnt plan B in Maribor, that was stuff from the dark ages and would hope never too see anything like that again.

[erskine-hibby]

Plab B didnae work in Maribor, we went back to plan A in carlisle but they couldn't score?????

If that was plan 'B' I fear for the future of the club as a whole.

[bawheid]

If that was plan 'B' I fear for the future of the club as a whole.

Why? What's going to happen? Will the new east stand disappear into a hole in the ground?

Folk need to make their mind up. Last week the criticism of Yogi seemed to be that he was trying a system that he didn't have the players for. 4-5-1 is used by loads of clubs and countries these days.

This week the formation is from the dark ages.

Which is it?

[blackpoolhibs]

Why? What's going to happen? Will the new east stand disappear into a hole in the ground?

Folk need to make their mind up. Last week the criticism of Yogi seemed to be that he was trying a system that he didn't have the players for. 4-5-1 is used by loads of clubs and countries these days.

This week the formation is from the dark ages.

Which is it?

Spot on. Last weeks 4-5-1 would have worked, had the players implementing it not made 2 basic errors. Who's to say if we had played 4-4-2 we wouldnt have been stuffed 4-0? Even playing Riordan and Stokes we never had a shot at goal. We played a good experienced side, who play every year in europe. we are weak in defense, whatever system we played we'd have lost last week, and basic errors cost us coming back with a 1-0 defeat.

[Captain Trips]

Why? What's going to happen? Will the new east stand disappear into a hole in the ground?

Folk need to make their mind up. Last week the criticism of Yogi seemed to be that he was trying a system that he didn't have the players for. 4-5-1 is used by loads of clubs and countries these days.

This week the formation is from the dark ages.

Which is it?

Lots of clubs use it as they have players capable of playing in that system and the key factor is the teams usually are able to play on the counter attack with 1 up front, we never even had a set up to do that, Nish is never that type in a million years. If you dont have the players for it dont do it, my concern is he actually thought he did have to select.

I dont often see teams set up with what appears no ambition to score, maybe Greece v Argentina in world cup just gone, it rarely works and IMO is from dark ages.

[erskine-hibby]

Why? What's going to happen? Will the new east stand disappear into a hole in the ground?
Folk need to make their mind up. Last week the criticism of Yogi seemed to be that he was trying a system that he didn't have the players for. 4-5-1 is used by loads of clubs and countries these days.

This week the formation is from the dark ages.

Which is it?

Quite possibly.
If that kind of performance was to be allowed to continue with the blind faith that Yogi 'may' get it right. We would soon find ourselves dropping down divisions like a stone.
I have not (yet) 'this season' called for his head as I feel a change of manager at this present time would be more than a little counter productive, but the jury is still well and truly out. His one horse trick has been found out and it is about time he showed us there is more to him than 'being a good Hibby'.

[Captain Trips]

Spot on. Last weeks 4-5-1 would have worked, had the players implementing it not made 2 basic errors. Who's to say if we had played 4-4-2 we wouldnt have been stuffed 4-0? Even playing Riordan and Stokes we never had a shot at goal. We played a good experienced side, who play every year in europe. we are weak in defense, whatever system we played we'd have lost last week, and basic errors cost us coming back with a 1-0 defeat.

BH the 4-4-2 argument is one nobody can win, indeed we could have lost 4-0 or 5-0, might have lost 4-1 might have lost 3-1, who knows?

I cannot ever agree on playing in that manner unless we have some severe injuries or illness, mistakes made indeed did cost 2 goals, it can be countered that if played different system that pattern of play might never have occured. The argument can be made to suit anyone. What is clear we lost 3-0

I am certainly not looking to see Yogi sacked, I just think he made IMO his worst tactical and team selection so far as our manager, I hope he learns from it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Lots of clubs use it as they have players capable of playing in that system and the key factor is the teams usually are able to play on the counter attack with 1 up front, we never even had a set up to do that, Nish is never that type in a million years. If you dont have the players for it dont do it, my concern is he actually thought he did have to select.

I dont often see teams set up with what appears no ambition to score, maybe Greece v Argentina in world cup just gone, it rarely works and IMO is from dark ages.

We played that system at parkhead and ibrox last season and came away with good results. Errors that you see in kids football contributed to 2 of the goals, things out of Yogi's hands.

[erskine-hibby]

Spot on. Last weeks 4-5-1 would have worked, had the players implementing it not made 2 basic errors. Who's to say if we had played 4-4-2 we wouldnt have been stuffed 4-0? Even playing Riordan and Stokes we never had a shot at goal. We played a good experienced side, who play every year in europe. we are weak in defense, whatever system we played we'd have lost last week, and basic errors cost us coming back with a 1-0 defeat.

QED right enough, but who, apart from Yogi, thinks that that system with the players we have would work???
Sheer folly, if not incompitence IMHO for Yogi to play that system.
Yes, we could have got stuffed by a much larger scoreline had we played 2 up front, but we could have scored the vital away goal(s) that would take us through. IMHO we would have been better to at least have a go as our defence is ,by far, the weakest point in our team.

[blackpoolhibs]

QED right enough, but who, apart from Yogi, thinks that that system with the players we have would work???
Sheer folly, if not incompitence IMHO for Yogi to play that system.
Yes, we could have got stuffed by a much larger scoreline had we played 2 up front, but we could have scored the vital away goal(s) that would take us through. IMHO we would have been better to at least have a go as our defence is ,by far, the weakest point in our team.

I don't agree, i would have tried to protect them as yogi did.

[Captain Trips]

We played that system at parkhead and ibrox last season and came away with good results. Errors that you see in kids football contributed to 2 of the goals, things out of Yogi's hands.

Who was upfront BH and supporting the striker if needed?, an absolute key factor is being able to counter when you play 4-5-1.
Last week was nothing like away days at thoose grounds.

[erskine-hibby]

I don't agree, i would have tried to protect them as yogi did.

Thats opinions for ye I suppose, but do you really think our defence is good enough to play like that??????

[bawheid]

Quite possibly.
If that kind of performance was to be allowed to continue with the blind faith that Yogi 'may' get it right. We would soon find ourselves dropping down divisions like a stone.


Seriously??

Seriously????

You're not exaggerating just a tad....?

[blackpoolhibs]

Who was upfront BH and supporting the striker if needed?, an absolute key factor is being able to counter when you play 4-5-1.
Last week was nothing like away days at thoose grounds.

We are going round in circles, we were holding them quite comfortably with the system we were playing. The errors imho were the reason we lost 2 of the goals, not the formation or even the players selected. Even though i would have prefered Riordan on the left.

[erskine-hibby]

Who was upfront BH and supporting the striker if needed?, an absolute key factor is being able to counter when you play 4-5-1.
Last week was nothing like away days at thoose grounds.

Totally agree.
Last week we didn't have any support, nor was there meant to be any, IMHO.
Looked to me like we were set up for 90 mins of defence and hope for a 0-0, said it before sheer folly!

[blackpoolhibs]

Thats opinions for ye I suppose, but do you really think our defence is good enough to play like that??????

I don't think they are good at all, and giving them no protection would have been worse imho.

[erskine-hibby]

Seriously??

Seriously????

You're not exaggerating just a tad....?

OK pehaps just a tad:wink:

I'm pretty sure the tache would step in long before that...at least I hope he would.:agree:

[mmmmhibby]

Im not saying he's on the brink of a move to Man City or Barca, but he does what he is asked to do. There is a difference between a Matty Jack style tackler and a player playing in the spoiler role. Intercepting passes, closing down, holding up play to allow other midfielders time to ge tback and cover and the defense to set themselves. Thats what he is employed to do, and he does it at the very least competently. At the start of the season he got the ball and gave it to Miller who did the clever stuff. Miller slumped, so the effectiveness of the pairing faded.

The reason Im banging in about this is that its very easy but very knee-jerk to chuck out "he's not good enough" lines, with what appears almost to be a malicious pride, without ever actually thinking about what is being typed.

ad have to say that rankin and mcbride would IMO be lucky to get a game for any other SPL club. Swamped by almost every team we have came up against. Unfortunately thats the standard we have in our midfield.

[Captain Trips]

We are going round in circles, we were holding them quite comfortably with the system we were playing. The errors imho were the reason we lost 2 of the goals, not the formation or even the players selected. Even though i would have prefered Riordan on the left.

Yes but BH you cant rule out the errors as being part of the grand scheme, the errors happened in those areas as we were playing that system, we might not have made them if played 4-4-2. most goals teams lose an error will have occured. My point is our strengths do not lie in holding teams wether we were doing well or not we ended up losing 3 goals, our strengths are trying to score goals. Even playing Riordan we only need a freekick within 25yds to have some sort of chance of nicking one.

Sorry BH but that was a dreadful set of tactics and player choice last week the result reflects that.

[erskine-hibby]

I don't think they are good at all, and giving them no protection would have been worse imho.

Then why play defensively???
Surely we would have been better playing to our strengths...i.e. attacking?

[mmmmhibby]

Everyone bangs on about McBride, Miller etc being quality, but tbh I can barely think of a single game last season where we actually controlled the midfield.

Would have De Graaf accompanying Miller in the middle of the park if we're going to be playing 4 in midfield, as I don't think McBride is that great; I do think he's worth keeping in the squad though.
Rankin is awful and should be nowhere near our starting line-up.

Personally I'd like to see this team -


Brown
Hart - Bamba - Hanlon - Murray
Wotherspoon/Zemmama - De Graaf - Miller - Galbraith(or a new ML)
-----------Riordan
Stokes


Anyway, I think we'll be in amongst the Top 6 next season. Don't think we're close to Dundee United in terms of the strength of our squad, so 4th is probably our best bet.


that would be my starting 11 if all players above are fit to play.

[blackpoolhibs]

Then why play defensively???
Surely we would have been better playing to our strengths...i.e. attacking?

Because it was working, the system was working. Talk me through their goals.

[mmmmhibby]

Because it was working, the system was working. Talk me through their goals.


when hibs try and defend a lead under Yogi, inevitably, we lose goals. So IMO, this system doesn't work.

[erskine-hibby]

Because it was working, the system was working. Talk me through their goals.

The scoreline says different.
I know what you are trying to get at, that is was individual mistakes and well taken goals, but had we not set up the way we did we could well have not been in those situations. For me, it was the tactics, with the players we have, that was wrong and we paid the price.

[blackpoolhibs]

The scoreline says different.
I know what you are trying to get at, that is was individual mistakes and well taken goals, but had we not set up the way we did we could well have not been in those situations. For me, it was the tactics, with the players we have, that was wrong and we paid the price.

We will just have to disagree.

[Captain Trips]

Because it was working, the system was working. Talk me through their goals.

I understand what you are saying tactics were not to blame for a bad pass per say or losing possesion, however you cannot rule the tactics out, the mistakes were made due to the way the game had panned out so indirectly tactics are a part of every goal. If we started say 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 differnt patterns would have occured ove the 90mins, might have made even more errors for all I know.

I am just saying on a whole Yogi IMO made some very poor decisions with the team and some players did not help. I do not think we have strong midfielders or defenders and cannot see the point in inviting teams onto us to test how weak they are.

[erskine-hibby]

We will just have to disagree.

:agree:

One thing that we can agree on is that we need to go for it on Thursday eh??



:flag::scarf::scarf::flag:

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree:

One thing that we can agree on is that we need to go for it on Thursday eh??



:flag::scarf::scarf::flag:

:agree: 1-0 at half time then the kitchen sink in the 2nd. :pray:

[erskine-hibby]

:agree: 1-0 at half time then the kitchen sink in the 2nd. :pray:


5-0 at half time, then the kitchen sink....or is that too much to ask for:greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

5-0 at half time, then the kitchen sink....or is that too much to ask for:greengrin

5-0 at halftime, them back to a 4-5-1. :greengrin

[erskine-hibby]

5-0 at halftime, them back to a 4-5-1. :greengrin

Please God Noooooooo!!!