Aimless Passing

[mim]

I read somewhere that Yogi criticised the team after the Maribor game for 'aimless passing', when what he wanted was 'passing with a purpose'.

Now, for me, Yogi is spot on with this. Almost everyone on here has been saying exactly the same thing.

I watched this aimless passing in the first half of the friendly at Dunfermline and feared that this was what Yogi actually wanted. We got more of the same in Maribor and, seemingly, more yesterday against Carlisle.

Yogi is failing to get the players to understand what he is trying to acheive with the passing game.

As things stand, we can keep the ball in our own half, but as soon as our midfield players are pressured, we lose the ball.

That's the players fault, but it is also Yogi's fault. He must surely realise that the players we have are not suited to playing 'keep ball' until an attacking opportunity crops up. We need to start playing higher up the park, particularly on Thursday if we are to have a small chance of a shock result.

Yogi wants us to play the beautiful game, but what his team is producing is negative, boring and inept.

Either Yogi concedes that he has to change the philosophy or we need a few new players who are capable of translating Yogi's vision into practice.

I'll be at the game on Thursday, but I fear that it may be one of very few visits this season.

[Expecting Rain]

I read somewhere that Yogi criticised the team after the Maribor game for 'aimless passing', when what he wanted was 'passing with a purpose'.

Now, for me, Yogi is spot on with this. Almost everyone on here has been saying exactly the same thing.

I watched this aimless passing in the first half of the friendly at Dunfermline and feared that this was what Yogi actually wanted. We got more of the same in Maribor and, seemingly, more yesterday against Carlisle.

Yogi is failing to get the players to understand what he is trying to acheive with the passing game.

As things stand, we can keep the ball in our own half, but as soon as our midfield players are pressured, we lose the ball.

That's the players fault, but it is also Yogi's fault. He must surely realise that the players we have are not suited to playing 'keep ball' until an attacking opportunity crops up. We need to start playing higher up the park, particularly on Thursday if we are to have a small chance of a shock result.

Yogi wants us to play the beautiful game, but what his team is producing is negative, boring and inept.

Either Yogi concedes that he has to change the philosophy or we need a few new players who are capable of translating Yogi's vision into practice.

I'll be at the game on Thursday, but I fear that it may be one of very few visits this season.

I agree Mike but the players who would be translating Yogi`s vision would come at a cost, i think Yogi has to lower his sights a bit especially when he continues to pick players that are never going to fulfil his dreams.

[Currie-Cabbage]

I assume we are trying to mirror the passing game of the world champion Spaniards, we are getting there with the back pass and coming on with the square ball however we've just not reached the point where we master the 'ball into space' the 'sliderule pass' or the 'incisive pass'

[Expecting Rain]

I assume we are trying to mirror the passing game of the world champion Spaniards, we are getting there with the back pass and coming on with the square ball however we've just not reached the point where we master the 'ball into space' the 'sliderule pass' or the 'incisive pass'

Unfortunately the teams that knock the ball around have centre-backs who are comfortable on the ball and can make the passes that count, we used to have one he was french.

[ahibby]

It sounds like it's possession for possessions sake, which is fine if you have a team which is really good at it and are already in the lead. It has to be about the team and the players in it. In my view to hold on to the ball when the only purpose is to hold on to it, requires a lot of strength, experience and movement in your team. I don't think Hibs have that in abundance although it could be argued that this is an experienced team compared to other Hibs teams but we have always brought through young players and this season Hanlon and Wotherspoon should be on the team sheet every week. Football is and always should be about scoring goals, its obvious but it sounds as though this possession for possessions sake is deviating from that fundamental point. Tony Mowbray liked to build up to a scoring opportunity and IIRC at least one Hibs goal under him resulted from twenty two passes. That was quite a long build up and string of passes but it lead to something. The bottom line for me is that I would like to have players in my team with one thing in mind and that is scoring goals and if I were to tell them to just keep the ball, I would hope they would not be happy about it.

[ahibby]

I assume we are trying to mirror the passing game of the world champion Spaniards, we are getting there with the back pass and coming on with the square ball however we've just not reached the point where we master the 'ball into space' the 'sliderule pass' or the 'incisive pass'

Zemmama is the best at that in a Hibs jersey and we do miss him big time. We can't rely on one man as was proven by the poor end of season run in.

[Captain Trips]

I read somewhere that Yogi criticised the team after the Maribor game for 'aimless passing', when what he wanted was 'passing with a purpose'.

Now, for me, Yogi is spot on with this. Almost everyone on here has been saying exactly the same thing.

I watched this aimless passing in the first half of the friendly at Dunfermline and feared that this was what Yogi actually wanted. We got more of the same in Maribor and, seemingly, more yesterday against Carlisle.

Yogi is failing to get the players to understand what he is trying to acheive with the passing game.

As things stand, we can keep the ball in our own half, but as soon as our midfield players are pressured, we lose the ball.

That's the players fault, but it is also Yogi's fault. He must surely realise that the players we have are not suited to playing 'keep ball' until an attacking opportunity crops up. We need to start playing higher up the park, particularly on Thursday if we are to have a small chance of a shock result.

Yogi wants us to play the beautiful game, but what his team is producing is negative, boring and inept.

Either Yogi concedes that he has to change the philosophy or we need a few new players who are capable of translating Yogi's vision into practice.

I'll be at the game on Thursday, but I fear that it may be one of very few visits this season.


Good post Mike, as nice as Yogi's ideas are and I agree with them we simply do not have the players capable of that, I can see that as can you so I am always surprised we try it. No doubt some afternoons some players do make the passes but more often than not they dont.

I for one am not confident with our keepers and defence so do not understand why you would want to encourage teams to come onto you and as on Thursday not only come onto you but have a almost a no out ball as for counter attack, I was baffled.

The balance of the team is weighted with our forwards whom are good that is what we have to play to each week no matter whom we play until quality is in at other places to play the way Yogi wants with purpose.

[blackpoolhibs]

Its been proven over the years that the get right up them attitude does not work. Playing a passing game wont turn us into world beaters overnight, but we have to persisit in this way of playing if we want to go forward. Yes its not working at this moment, but i dont want us to rip it up, and go back to hoofing the ball forward, then chasing after scraps.

Sometimes you just need to have a little patience, and look at the bigger picture.

[basehibby]

I think Yogi needs to be a bit more pragmatic in his approach - as a rule I'm in favour of the keep-ball approach to football, but with the players we've got you also need to give them license to blooter it up the park/into touch when danger threatens.
Last season that was one of the major differences between Hibs and Dundee Utd (a team who also like to pass the ball). When under pressure, the Dundee Utd defenders would not hesitate to clear the danger at the expense of losing posession. Hibs defenders under pressure by way of contrast would often dither about looking for the pass and end up giving the ball and often a goal away.
That's essentially what happened in Maribor as certainly the second and third goals were conceded as a result of giving the ball away cheaply in our own half (even if the second shouldn't have counted because of a foul to our player in the lead up).
As one of Yogi's supporters I'm disappointed that this obvious failing from last season shows no sign of having been rectified to date. Early doors yet and all that, but I want to see this addressed !!!

[blackpoolhibs]

I think Yogi needs to be a bit more pragmatic in his approach - as a rule I'm in favour of the keep-ball approach to football, but with the players we've got you also need to give them license to blooter it up the park/into touch when danger threatens.
Last season that was one of the major differences between Hibs and Dundee Utd (a team who also like to pass the ball). When under pressure, the Dundee Utd defenders would not hesitate to clear the danger at the expense of losing posession. Hibs defenders under pressure by way of contrast would often dither about looking for the pass and end up giving the ball and often a goal away. That's essentially what happened in Maribor as certainly the second and third goals were conceded as a result of giving the ball away cheaply in our own half (even if the second shouldn't have counted because of a foul to our player in the lead up).
As one of Yogi's supporters I'm disappointed that this obvious failing from last season shows no sign of having been rectified to date. Early doors yet and all that, but I want to see this addressed !!!
:agree::top marks

[IWasThere2016]

I think Yogi needs to be a bit more pragmatic in his approach - as a rule I'm in favour of the keep-ball approach to football, but with the players we've got you also need to give them license to blooter it up the park/into touch when danger threatens.
Last season that was one of the major differences between Hibs and Dundee Utd (a team who also like to pass the ball). When under pressure, the Dundee Utd defenders would not hesitate to clear the danger at the expense of losing posession. Hibs defenders under pressure by way of contrast would often dither about looking for the pass and end up giving the ball and often a goal away.
That's essentially what happened in Maribor as certainly the second and third goals were conceded as a result of giving the ball away cheaply in our own half (even if the second shouldn't have counted because of a foul to our player in the lead up).
As one of Yogi's supporters I'm disappointed that this obvious failing from last season shows no sign of having been rectified to date. Early doors yet and all that, but I want to see this addressed !!!

Very true.

Incidentally, the local paper says the Arabs passed Hull City off the park yesterday and lost 1-2!

It's a funny auld game!

[fordie2]

The problem IMO is we have no sitting midfielder good enough to create space for himself and for the defence to have an outball. If the defence have no one in midfield actively looking for the ball it just goes back and forward between themselves and the keeper until one of them punts it!

[Captain Trips]

Its been proven over the years that the get right up them attitude does not work. Playing a passing game wont turn us into world beaters overnight, but we have to persisit in this way of playing if we want to go forward. Yes its not working at this moment, but i dont want us to rip it up, and go back to hoofing the ball forward, then chasing after scraps.

Sometimes you just need to have a little patience, and look at the bigger picture.

BH the passing game with the players we have will not work, the bigger picture is we need new players to pull this off, why persist in tactics that some players will never be able to get or at least on what I have seen over season or 2 look like getting.

I want us to go forward as do you, there is a balance to be struck, talking of going forward that set up on Thursday was football from the dark ages. Im sure you see a lot of Hibs strengths are going forward and I do not think it should be all out attack a balance needs struck, I think Thursday was everything I don't want Hibs to be, I don't think there is ever a time for those tactics nowadays.

If we have 2 forwards on that park from the selection we have and try to create chances for them we will give any team in SPL a game and we would IMO have given Maribor one.

[ahibby]

Its been proven over the years that the get right up them attitude does not work. Playing a passing game wont turn us into world beaters overnight, but we have to persisit in this way of playing if we want to go forward. Yes its not working at this moment, but i dont want us to rip it up, and go back to hoofing the ball forward, then chasing after scraps.

Sometimes you just need to have a little patience, and look at the bigger picture.

St Johnstone's attitude last season was to get right up them and they cuffed us and Rangers in Perth. They don't have the depth to keep it up all season and we should have a better pool of players at our disposal then they do. You may well be right but the get right up them attitude does work atleast from time to time. Yogi has had Hibs playing with a right up them attitude and it did work with some nice, crisp confident passing going on. That appears to me to have slipped from Hibs game.

[Carrick Hibs]

The problem IMO is we have no sitting midfielder good enough to create space for himself and for the defence to have an outball. If the defence have no one in midfield actively looking for the ball it just goes back and forward between themselves and the keeper until one of them punts it!

The man in your Avatar was the last player we had able to do this and no-one has came close to doing his job since he left.

[blackpoolhibs]

BH the passing game with the players we have will not work, the bigger picture is we need new players to pull this off, why persist in tactics that some players will never be able to get or at least on what I have seen over season or 2 look like getting.

I want us to go forward as do you, there is a balance to be struck, talking of going forward that set up on Thursday was football from the dark ages. Im sure you see a lot of Hibs strengths are going forward and I do not think it should be all out attack a balance needs struck, I think Thursday was everything I don't want Hibs to be, I don't think there is ever a time for those tactics nowadays.

If we have 2 forwards on that park from the selection we have and try to create chances for them we will give any team in SPL a game and we would IMO have given Maribor one.

I agree we dont have all the players to play like the Dutch team from the 70s, but we do have a few. Miller McBride and Riordan to name 3. Where it lets us down imho, is some of our defenders cant pass. Murray is hopeless, Hogg the same, Hanlon is just as bad. Stephens looks like he can, and Hart too, but having half your defence uncomfortable on the ball, is a problem. As Basehibby has said, we need to be clearing our lines a bit more often, and still keep the passing game, but we need to do it further up the park.

[Sir David Gray]

I read somewhere that Yogi criticised the team after the Maribor game for 'aimless passing', when what he wanted was 'passing with a purpose'.

Now, for me, Yogi is spot on with this. Almost everyone on here has been saying exactly the same thing.

I watched this aimless passing in the first half of the friendly at Dunfermline and feared that this was what Yogi actually wanted. We got more of the same in Maribor and, seemingly, more yesterday against Carlisle.

Yogi is failing to get the players to understand what he is trying to acheive with the passing game.

As things stand, we can keep the ball in our own half, but as soon as our midfield players are pressured, we lose the ball.

That's the players fault, but it is also Yogi's fault. He must surely realise that the players we have are not suited to playing 'keep ball' until an attacking opportunity crops up. We need to start playing higher up the park, particularly on Thursday if we are to have a small chance of a shock result.

Yogi wants us to play the beautiful game, but what his team is producing is negative, boring and inept.

Either Yogi concedes that he has to change the philosophy or we need a few new players who are capable of translating Yogi's vision into practice.

I'll be at the game on Thursday, but I fear that it may be one of very few visits this season.

Unfortunately, you have just perfectly summed up yesterday's performance (and pretty much every single match for a number of months now) in just three words.

We could roll the ball along the ground all day if we wanted to, in our own half, but as soon as we try to play the ball forward into attacking areas, we simply lose possession.

We had a few chances yesterday but I've just read the match report on the Hibs website and I think they're being extremely generous in how they have described the Hibs performance. Their summary certainly doesn't reflect the match that I watched.

The squad that we currently have is not good enough, by quite some way, to be able play that style of football. It's admirable that Hughes wants to play a passing game but it's evidently not working at the moment and I really fear that, if we attempt to play like that for the whole of this season, we could be in for a very monotonous and frustrating nine months or so.

[Captain Trips]

I agree we dont have all the players to play like the Dutch team from the 70s, but we do have a few. Miller McBride and Riordan to name 3. Where it lets us down imho, is some of our defenders cant pass. Murray is hopeless, Hogg the same, Hanlon is just as bad. Stephens looks like he can, and Hart too, but having half your defence uncomfortable on the ball, is a problem. As Basehibby has said, we need to be clearing our lines a bit more often, and still keep the passing game, but we need to do it further up the park.

I agree we certainly do have a few but not enough to be looking at that with this team. I wouldlove us to play that way or close to it, until such times as we get in another say 2, 3 or 4 who can give us some level of that ambition I would be looking at oher systems. Major problems lie at the back there are nerves and uncertantity what with the merry go round in goals for starters.

We should never looking at with the players available a 4-5-1 and we should never be using that formation.

[Speedway]

Looks like a man beaten here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8871279.stm

[Expecting Rain]

Everybody wants to see Hibs trying to play football but the passing game we play at the moment is so predictable, our game has to have more of a mix and be more accommodating to the players we have at the present time, the opposition managers must have a field day at times, let Hibs pass the ball around, pressing the players that can pass it and letting the players who can`t pass it plenty of time in possession until the eventually and inevitably give it away for nothing.

[ahibby]

Looks like a man beaten here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8871279.stm

He does but at least he seems to be telling it like it is and not saying something that doesn't have foundation (as we have sometimes heard in the past). I wouldn't be surprised at a Hibs win or a draw on Thursday, I doubt if we win that it will be enough though. I think that their journey and Hibs home advantage will be significant. I would be surprised at a Maribor win even though they appear to be better than us at the moment. As the score stands we are out so we haven't anything to lose and we may as well go for it.

[patlowe]

It sounds like it's possession for possessions sake, which is fine if you have a team which is really good at it and are already in the lead. It has to be about the team and the players in it. In my view to hold on to the ball when the only purpose is to hold on to it, requires a lot of strength, experience and movement in your team. I don't think Hibs have that in abundance although it could be argued that this is an experienced team compared to other Hibs teams but we have always brought through young players and this season Hanlon and Wotherspoon should be on the team sheet every week. Football is and always should be about scoring goals, its obvious but it sounds as though this possession for possessions sake is deviating from that fundamental point. Tony Mowbray liked to build up to a scoring opportunity and IIRC at least one Hibs goal under him resulted from twenty two passes. That was quite a long build up and string of passes but it lead to something. The bottom line for me is that I would like to have players in my team with one thing in mind and that is scoring goals and if I were to tell them to just keep the ball, I would hope they would not be happy about it.

Great point. How many times have passing moves under Yogi led to goals? I can't think of too many. Most of our goals are the result of Deek and Stokes feeding off of scraps IIRC.

Yogi is kidding himself if he thinks Hibs play passing, attacking football. Unless you count being allowed to pass it around the back when teams know we don't have the players to hold onto the ball further up the park. In fact the only times I've seen it done properly in my time watching hibs was under McLeish, Nov-Feb in Mowbray's first season and a couple of games under Collins.

It's so easy to spout off about the "passing style" but implementing the tactics and team selection to actually pull it off effectively is a completely different ball game.

[Hibby Bairn]

We could roll the ball along the ground all day if we wanted to, in our own half, but as soon as we try to play the ball forward into attacking areas, we simply lose possession.



That is the problem EXACTLY. In our own half we are playing 6 v 2 or 3. It should be easy to maintain possession in that situation. But we do not make the transition from this into the middle third of the park and maintain at least equal numbers (preferably numbers up) and we therefore lose the ball...and it very rarely therefore reaches the final third.

Spain do this perfectly by having two masters in Xavi and Iniesta but they also have their full backs pushing forward all the time to increase middle third numbers. When they are on the ball they basically play 2 at the back. We don't. We maintain 4 at the back and therefore have lesser numbers in midfield to control the play. We then lose the ball.

This is pretty basic stuff and I would imagine Hibs are training to achieve this everyday but our back 4 in particular really struggle further forward. They are not comfortable on the ball and certainly not going forward with control.

We need Sergio Ramos! :greengrin

[RoslinInstHibby]

We need Sergio Ramos! :greengrin

would settle for Murphy and Whittaker back:agree:

[sahib]

Bridging the gulf between the manager's stated philosophy and what is produced on the park is the trick. JC had the same problem as Yogi. On balance though I would prefer to see this approach rather than hoofball.
It could be that Bobby Robson was not so daft when he said; “I do want to play the short ball and I do want to play the long ball. I think long and short balls is what football is all about.”

[vahibbie]

Its been proven over the years that the get right up them attitude does not work. Playing a passing game wont turn us into world beaters overnight, but we have to persisit in this way of playing if we want to go forward. Yes its not working at this moment, but i dont want us to rip it up, and go back to hoofing the ball forward, then chasing after scraps.

Sometimes you just need to have a little patience, and look at the bigger picture.

Why:confused: Who says this is the only style that's going to work.
Obviously we need to be capable of passing the ball, something that's not always been evident lately, but we need a mixture. Passes have to lead somewhere, either ending in a telling forward pass or creating a space for someone bursting through. All we do is fart around near our goal until we ****** it up.
I don't recall the TT's making endless, pointless passes and I'm pretty sure Gordon Smith and the FF didn't either. Of course we don't have that calibre of player but we do have options and we are not making the best of them.
As Mike in Munich said, if it continues it may not just be him that pays infrequent visits to ER this season.

BTW, if we don't have a "get right up them attitude" on Thursday we're most definitely rubber-ducked.

[matty_f]

IMHO, the problem is that there appears to be too much emphasis put on the passing style, now whether this has come from Yogi, or the players interpretation of what he wants, or a combination, I don't know.

Football's not a complicated sport. You can over-complicate it, and I think that's what is happening. We seem to be too busy looking for a pass for a pass's sake, rather than getting on with playing football.

We have good players in the side, players who have been playing at a good level for most of, if not all of, their careers. They know (or at least should know) their positions inside out.

They should know how to pass a ball and how to get into space to receive a pass.

It doesn't need to be difficult. Tell the players that you don't want them launching the ball at every opportunity, give them some pointers into the system, then let them do what they're good at.

We appear to be the only team to have no idea whatsoever what we're meant to be doing with the ball in an attacking sense when we get it.

It's all too complicated. Just trust the bloody players to do what they do best.

[ekhibee]

I agree we dont have all the players to play like the Dutch team from the 70s, but we do have a few. Miller McBride and Riordan to name 3. Where it lets us down imho, is some of our defenders cant pass. Murray is hopeless, Hogg the same, Hanlon is just as bad. Stephens looks like he can, and Hart too, but having half your defence uncomfortable on the ball, is a problem. As Basehibby has said, we need to be clearing our lines a bit more often, and still keep the passing game, but we need to do it further up the park.
I'm sorry but I really can't agree with most of what you say. Since Xmas there has been scant evidence to me of either Miller or McBride playing like any members of any Dutch team, never mind the one from the seventies. To be fair McBride had an injury which kept him out for a fair amount of games, but even allowing for a few games to get him back on an even keel, he still didn't perform. Miller looked good in the first few games he played for us, but has shown next to nothing since. What frightens me is that people start putting these players on pedestals, just because occasionally they show ability over and above what is a distinctly average Hibs team. An average Hibs team that's got into the Europa Cup, not because we're particularly good, but because the SPL is a dreadful league just now.Yes, I agree the defence, for the most part, has been pish, in no small part due to the complete lack of leadership by Hogg, but they are not helped by the lack of support and ineffectivness in midfield, not just from Miller and McBride of course. The Motherwell game, to me, was a shining example of this, where the defence were exposed time and time again because of the lack of cover from midfield. There are still plenty of changes needed at our club, and maybe, we don't have the money to ring these changes, without offloading a few more passengers, but what the hell that's just my opinion.