Why Riordan & Stokes Weren't Picked by John Hughes

[Speedway]

http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Hibs-boss-defends-decision-to.6449347.jp

[bighairyfaeleith]

dearie me

But, today, Hughes, for whom this was his first European match as a manager, stood by his decision, saying: "I felt we had to play a system to keep it tight, to keep it compact and trying to maybe sneak a goal. It wasn't a case of playing Nish, Stokes or Riordan, it was a case of playing a five-man midfield with good legs in there and I felt the five we played had the best legs at the club."

Hughes revealed he opted for Nish because of his height, adding: "I don't think it would have suited Derek to ask him to go up there and play on his own and it certainly would not have suited Stokesy, that's why we did that."

We didn't keep it tight, nish was lost u front on his own, nish has never known how to use his height.

If thats the best legs at the club then we are ****ed because they got ran off the pitch last night!!

[bingo70]

http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Hibs-boss-defends-decision-to.6449347.jp

I agree with the formation he played and i understand his reasons for not playing the both of them and i think the stick he has taken since has been way over the top, however i don't agree with his selction of Nish, he might be taller than the two of them but he's no good in the air, doesn't hold the ball up, doesn't bring others into play, has zero pace, no mobility and gives away too many fouls so i don't see how Stokes or Deeks could have faired any worse but both of them would have offered more of a goal threat than Nish.

In defence of Nish because i've slated him a bit there, there is a place for him in the squad but only if he's playing up front with someone else, never in a million years will he ever be able to play the lone front man role though IMO

[Diclonius]

Yogi tried what seemed like a good idea at the time and it didn't work.

The problem here is that even when we were 2-0 down he didn't change it.

[Hibs90]

Nish is not a target man Yogi...:confused:

[Liberal Hibby]

Yogi tried what seemed like a good idea at the time and it didn't work.

The problem here is that even when we were 2-0 down he didn't change it.

The problem being that we were 3-0 down a few minutes later (almost certainly as changes were being contemplated)

[GreenPJ]

Nish is not a target man Yogi...:confused:

Neither is Stokes and Derek definitely is not. We don't have anyone at the club who is a targetman but I still think 4-5-1 initially was the right idea.

[iwasthere1972]

Nish is not a target man Yogi...:confused:

He is on here. :agree:

[silverhibee]

http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Hibs-boss-defends-decision-to.6449347.jp


Do you think the manager will play Stokes & Riordan for the home tie.

[IWasThere2016]

Do you think the manager will play Stokes & Riordan for the home tie.

He has no choice now ..

[Scotthibs1875]

Nish is not a target man Yogi...:confused:
What was he meant to do? Imagine if he played a 4-3-3, we would have got even more of a riding! But the fact is players like rankin pass the ball so ****1ng slowly!

[Danderhall Hibs]

What was he meant to do? Imagine if he played a 4-3-3, we would have got even more of a riding! But the fact is players like rankin pass the ball so ****1ng slowly!

Do you have to play a "target man" at all? Is anyone suggesting we should've played a 4-3-3?

[scotiaf]

We had a player on our books last season who could do that role

He was good back in a cup final a few years ago

[CRAZYHIBBY]

he should have went either 442 or 433 and went for it. Id rather we were beat giving it our all instead of last nights embarrassment

[Keith_M]

http://sport.scotsman.com/hibernianfc/Hibs-boss-defends-decision-to.6449347.jp


How is Nish any better a target man than Stokes or Riordan? He's poor in the air, falls constantly on his *rse and has poor control, therefore unable to hold the ball whilst waiting for support. He has even admitted before that it's not his ideal role.

So, if we don't have a player capable of playing as a target man, then don't play a system that requires one. If our defenders (and midfielders playing defensively) are so limited, then why play a defensively minded system? Why not play to the strengths/weaknesses of who we DO have in the squad? Is it that complicated???

I wish you'd just accept that a lot of the players were poor on the night and the management made poor choices.

[Beefster]

The problem being that we were 3-0 down a few minutes later (almost certainly as changes were being contemplated)

I'd suggest that Hughes needs to think and react quicker than 8 minutes after it's evident that a game is slipping away from us.

[Sumner]

4-4-2

Riordan & Stokes up front

it's SO VERY obvious and has been for WAAAAY back
yet the manager is bloody-minded at his criticism not
to play this, shoving DR on the left mid for most of last year
- and now dropping both and blowing the Euro "run" before
it even started. Woeful woeful tactical thinking. :rolleyes:

... oh and was Brian Rice's "dossier" written in crayon ? :rolleyes:

[Wull]

it just shows you legs (5 man midfield) are no as good as heeds.

[silverhibee]

He has no choice now ..


Not to sure about that TQM, the manager may think he was right to go with that team last night, he may just go with the same formation and team for the home game and tell the players its up to them to make up for there mistakes last night.

I will take what the manager say's with a pinch of salt from now on. :wink:

[Westie1875]

Not to sure about that TQM, the manager may think he was right to go with that team last night, he may just go with the same formation and team for the home game and tell the players its up to them to make up for there mistakes last night.

I will take what the manager say's with a pinch of salt from now on. :wink:

I'd be seriously concerned for his sanity if he did this, we need to score at least 3 goals - to do that we need our 40 goal a season strike partnership on the pitch.

[Ants]

Answer:-
Coz he is a buffoon and that is a polite reply.

We had more skill and panache on the bench, all to no avail.

If we have such commodities, why not play them at the start, go 2 goals up then rest them?

Hughes = tactically inept (quoted on another thread, but Im right!!).

[marinello59]

Answer:-
Coz he is a buffoon and that is a polite reply.

We had more skill and panache on the bench, all to no avail.

If we have such commodities, why not play them at the start, go 2 goals up then rest them?

Hughes = tactically inept (quoted on another thread, but Im right!!).

Blindingly obvious isn't it. This season should be a caker, play our strikers, stroll to a two goal lead early doors, then we can all do the Hibees Bounce whilst the players relax. Bring it on.:thumbsup:

[BT58]

if JH was talking about players with legs[ie stamina/pace] then WHY wasnt galbraith on from the start?????????
all this talk of 4-5-1, i think JH looked at the WORLD CUP, and seeing how HOLLAND play
thought that hibs could play this way too, we`ll im sorry yogi, get a lot of dutch players in your team then maybees, but not with THIS squad!!!!!!!!!!!
one thing im totally bothered about is OUR DEFENCE, we lost nearly the same amount of goals that we scored last term,,,,,,ok so you`ve brought in a young guy with potential
what we need now is 2 EXPERIENCED C/H`S, hogg has tried, but failed miserably
if bamba has to go get in defenders who can defend,,,,forget GOW
with all JH`s experience you would have thought that the defence would have been sorted out first,,,but hey he`s the manager not me
b

[Ants]

Blindingly obvious isn't it. This season should be a caker, play our strikers, stroll to a two goal lead early doors, then we can all do the Hibees Bounce whilst the players relax. Bring it on.:thumbsup:

Im with you mate... BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS.

We are the meer immortals, we know nothing.

Let me think to when Bamba came back from the Africain Cup Nations, destroy a winning/settled team to accomodate 1 player.............. t(!)ts up springs to mind !!

[Davy Mac]

Could you imagine any other teams playing in Europe last night not playing their best front two against better opposition?

Seriously?

I dunno know, I really like Yogi but I think he needs somebody to support him with a bit more savvy..........

Why play our most ineffectual striker.......crazy crazy stuff

[No.4]

I've not been one to slate Yogi in the past. Sure he had a nightmare at the end of last season, but over all we did ok so I was happy for him to learn from his mistakes and hopefully kick on this season.

Last night was an absolute disgrace. To not play Stokes or Deeks was simply unbelievable. Deek has been on fire with his free kicks all pre season and if we could have got one near the edge of the box, he just might have nicked a vital away goal but no.. Let's play Wotherspoon, the right midfielder who played all of last season at right back in left midfield and leave our 17 goals last season "left midfielder" on the bench. Lets put our 9 goal striker up front where he's totally useless on his own, and leave our 23 goal striker who can score from nothing on the bench. And I'd be interested to know if we've ever played that formation with those players before... because you'd kind of want to go into the game with a settled squad who know where each other are going to be on the park.

Over and above all else the thing that really is bugging me is for Yogi to come out after the match with his classic line from last season, "I cant ask for anymore from the players, they've given me everything they've got". If that's everything they've got, then we're f****d for the forthcoming season. Can't make a 5 yard pass more than 5 times without giving the ball away, can't play the ball forward, hardly any attempts on target.. Is it not about time that he publicly said that the performance levels of the players is just not good enough? :confused:

Get it sorted Yogi or I'm sorry, but GTF.

[thebakerboy]

Feel that if we are going to play 4-5-1 formation the only player at the club who can control a ball , has speed , and an eye for goal is Galbraith see his goal against Celtic. But is he ever going to get a chance anywhere with Yogi:confused:

[No.4]

Feel that if we are going to play 4-5-1 formation the only player at the club who can control a ball , has speed , and an eye for goal is Galbraith see his goal against Celtic. But is he ever going to get a chance anywhere with Yogi:confused:

Don't be silly, we have a right midfielder and a centre forward who can play in left mid instead of him :bitchy:

I don't see him as a lone strker tbf

[Iain G]

I would have thought that if you play a 451 you either need to:
1) Get the ball forward quickly to the striker, who has the ability to control and hold the ball up, and play in those getting forward from midfield.
2) Sit deep and hit on the counter attack with fast players with good ball control who can take half a chance when it comes there way.

We seemed to do neither of these and focus on trying to keep the ball and stiffle the opposition, who must have looked at our gameplan and had a right good laugh.

[yekimevol]

He has no choice now ..
there would be riots if he never :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

[Zondervan]

4-4-2

Riordan & Stokes up front

it's SO VERY obvious and has been for WAAAAY back
yet the manager is bloody-minded at his criticism not
to play this, shoving DR on the left mid for most of last year
- and now dropping both and blowing the Euro "run" before
it even started. Woeful woeful tactical thinking. :rolleyes:

... oh and was Brian Rice's "dossier" written in crayon ? :rolleyes:

Just back from Slovenia - the post above sums it up for me.

Gutted after that display. It was obvious after about 2 minutes that we could not cope with Maribor using Hughes's stupid formation and incorrect player selection. McBride, Nish and Rankin were abysmal, and just like last season, are simply not good enough. Nish and rankin in particular, why the **** they even get near the starting 11 I will never know.

Not looking forward to the new season at all, apart from seeing the new stand. Pity it will be only half full for most of the season.

Night night, see some of you at Carlisle. :yawn:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

I'm not sure we could play Deek and Stokes as a front pair week in - week out in the SPL.
I remember Deek getting 15mins up front against St Mirren? last season and was too easily brushed off the ball. Never got a sniff........

To play deek up front I think we need a genuine target man that CAN hold the ball up.

It's about balance for me, I would dearly love to see a proper big centre forward to allow Deeks / Stokes to prosper.

[Steve-O]

Clearly Riordan could've at least been on at left midfield...he's been hitting free kicks on target for most of the pre season so if you're looking to 'sneak' a goal, surely one direct from a free kick is more likely than punting the ball up to Nish?

Yogi obviously spends too much time on Football Manager on his PC where his type of thinking might actually work.

[Scotthibs1875]

Do you have to play a "target man" at all? Is anyone suggesting we should've played a 4-3-3?
i never said that he was a target man:confused: I wouldn't classify nish as a target man i think he's rank rotten but the quality of players at our club are not as good as theirs. Its as simple as that and i think yogi knew that they are a better team than us. No matter what formation yogi played we were always going to be outclassed.

[ForeverHibs93]

Absolute bollox excuse IMO. Nish is dreadful, especially when up top alone, no strength, pace, aerial ability etc.. Stokes may not be the tallest, or fastest but he can score from nothing just like deeks, at least one of them should of started the game. Nish is the equivalent to a traffic cone. I'd say the tie is over unless we pull of a miracle but here's hoping that we do:agree:

[HenryMonk]

Neither is Stokes and Derek definitely is not. We don't have anyone at the club who is a targetman but I still think 4-5-1 initially was the right idea.

last season we played 4-5-1 with deeks on right and stokes as lone front man:confused:

[Brizo]

Nish is a 100K striker who gives 100k performances. Hes scored a few goals for us for that minimal outlay but he cannae trap a bag of cement and theres laddies playing upfront at under 15 fitba who read the line and stay onside better than him. To play a system where he was expected to hold the ball up for midfield runners to join in was never gonna work because Nish hasnt got the ability to do that job. How Yogi thought he could perform that role is a mystery to me.

Nish isnt the only culprit. From what I could see we were poor in defence and midfield. What I dont get is we went all last season playing gung ho attacking fitba in what was basically a 433 formation. In fact there were games where we should have shut up shop and defended a lead but instead chased more goals with disasterous consequences. Now first competitive game of the new season we go to a strict 451 system where we flood the midfield with defensive players and have one attacking option. Does anyone know if Yogi tried this formation out in any of the friendlies before Maribor ? I would like to hope so cause surely thats what friendlies are for.

[cwilliamson85]

said on another thread would be going on abou Hughes tactics if we had got a better result. I think not

[Hibby 2005]

We have better attackers than defenders but Yogi didn't think so last week.

[Baldy Foghorn]

dearie me

But, today, Hughes, for whom this was his first European match as a manager, stood by his decision, saying: "I felt we had to play a system to keep it tight, to keep it compact and trying to maybe sneak a goal. It wasn't a case of playing Nish, Stokes or Riordan, it was a case of playing a five-man midfield with good legs in there and I felt the five we played had the best legs at the club."

Hughes revealed he opted for Nish because of his height, adding: "I don't think it would have suited Derek to ask him to go up there and play on his own and it certainly would not have suited Stokesy, that's why we did that."

We didn't keep it tight, nish was lost u front on his own, nish has never known how to use his height.

If thats the best legs at the club then we are ****ed because they got ran off the pitch last night!!

Nish played well enough in my opinion. He came back and defended corners therefore using his height, I thought Yogi picked the right forward player

[degenerated]

Nish played well enough in my opinion. He came back and defended corners therefore using his height, I thought Yogi picked the right forward player

i thought so as well, theproblem wan't in the formation or the tactics it was in the execution of them. our real problem is certain players are incapable of passing and controlling the ball and we are in desperate need of a left back and a centre half.

[Baldy Foghorn]

i thought so as well, theproblem wan't in the formation or the tactics it was in the execution of them. our real problem is certain players are incapable of passing and controlling the ball and we are in desperate need of a left back and a centre half.

Yogi wants to play a passing game, and as you say we do not have the personnel to do so unfortunately....

[Hibbyradge]

I agreed with Yogi's team selection and tactics.

They were the better team and we had some bad luck.

No-one's to blame.

[Hermit Crab]

4-4-2

Riordan & Stokes up front

it's SO VERY obvious and has been for WAAAAY back
yet the manager is bloody-minded at his criticism not
to play this, shoving DR on the left mid for most of last year
- and now dropping both and blowing the Euro "run" before
it even started. Woeful woeful tactical thinking. :rolleyes:

... oh and was Brian Rice's "dossier" written in crayon ? :rolleyes:


Aye this all important dossier that had been made up. Not worth the paper it was written on IMO. Pash Pash and more Pash. :grr:

[500miles]

You can get your tactics right and still lose the game. Individual errors, slips and good play from the opposition can undo anything thats done on the training ground and in the changing room.

At all times in europe you want to prioritise keeping things tight, and maintaining shape. Furthermore Yogi had to keep in mind that we were not to the same standard of match fitness, and therefore playing your fittest eleven in an attempt to keep up. Sadly for us, they got a couple of goals due to a combination of slips, good individual play, and our own lack of sharpness.

Perhaps these games just come around too early to be quite the oppertunity of European football that we believe them to be.

[blackpoolhibs]

You can get your tactics right and still lose the game. Individual errors, slips and good play from the opposition can undo anything thats done on the training ground and in the changing room.

At all times in europe you want to prioritise keeping things tight, and maintaining shape. Furthermore Yogi had to keep in mind that we were not to the same standard of match fitness, and therefore playing your fittest eleven in an attempt to keep up. Sadly for us, they got a couple of goals due to a combination of slips, good individual play, and our own lack of sharpness.

Perhaps these games just come around too early to be quite the oppertunity of European football that we believe them to be.
:top marks:agree:

[rubber mal]

How is Nish any better a target man than Stokes or Riordan? He's poor in the air, falls constantly on his *rse and has poor control, therefore unable to hold the ball whilst waiting for support. He has even admitted before that it's not his ideal role.

So, if we don't have a player capable of playing as a target man, then don't play a system that requires one. If our defenders (and midfielders playing defensively) are so limited, then why play a defensively minded system? Why not play to the strengths/weaknesses of who we DO have in the squad? Is it that complicated???

I wish you'd just accept that a lot of the players were poor on the night and the management made poor choices.

Exactly.

Or sign one.

[Spike Mandela]

You can get your tactics right and still lose the game. Individual errors, slips and good play from the opposition can undo anything thats done on the training ground and in the changing room.

At all times in europe you want to prioritise keeping things tight, and maintaining shape. Furthermore Yogi had to keep in mind that we were not to the same standard of match fitness, and therefore playing your fittest eleven in an attempt to keep up. Sadly for us, they got a couple of goals due to a combination of slips, good individual play, and our own lack of sharpness.

Perhaps these games just come around too early to be quite the oppertunity of European football that we believe them to be.


Motherwell really struggled against a team 16 games into their season:confused:

Lame excuse after lame excuse.

Can't we just accept we blew it without all the bull****. One chance to redeem ourselves now GRFITT

[500miles]

Motherwell really struggled against a team 16 games into their season:confused:

Lame excuse after lame excuse.

Can't we just accept we blew it without all the bull****. One chance to redeem ourselves now GRFITT

It's no excuse, and there is always the question of the quality of the team in question. For example, Barca could turn up, first day back after the summer, and still put us to shame regardless of how far into the season we turn up, and we could turn up at any time against the likes of Dinaburg, halfway through thier season, and still come through without too much fuss.

I'm saying that you've not won anything simply by making it to the qualifiers - for every diddy team, there are a few decent ones that can capitolise on any advantage they may have.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Answer:-
Coz he is a buffoon and that is a polite reply.

We had more skill and panache on the bench, all to no avail.

If we have such commodities, why not play them at the start, go 2 goals up then rest them?

Hughes = tactically inept (quoted on another thread, but Im right!!).

I dont like kicking a man when he's down, but I fear that he has done nothing to turn around the shambles that started in January. Fair's fair, he's not the most articulate guy (a lot of managers arent) but the nonsense he spraffs in the press and on the telly make me think he is out of his depth.

We have yet to see evidence of any progress towards a cohesive, intelligent, passing team that Yogi has promised. I just don't feel he is getting his message across to the players. I don't feel the team spirit that he wants to create is there, I think a lot of the players think he is a clown.

I really hope he proves me wrong, as I don't think many of us can handle much more of what went on last season. My problem is that Yogi doesn't even talk a good game.

[500miles]

Exactly.

Or sign one.

If that's the best system you have, then use it. Nish is no superstar, but a 100k player? 500k for me, decent goals return, and gives you an option as a target man in the same way Wotherspoon gives you an option at right back - not ideal, but not entirely outwith his capabilities.

We weren't good enough to overcome a lack of fitness compared to team who are decent. Furthermore there were a couple of individual mistakes Yogi just couldn't legislate for.