PDA

View Full Version : Hibs for sale



Rougier45
21-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Heard a few rumours recently --one that Petrie and a syndicate where looking at buying Hibs from Sir Tom another that a foreign buyer (mid east)was lookibg at a deal--No substance --I have no idea if true.

My question is : in the current market what would Hibs be valued at ?

anyone any ideas ?

The Silver Fox
21-07-2010, 12:45 PM
That sort of idea sounded great when Vlad was coming in with Hearts on the back of Abramovich but since the years of decline have set in and the debt has risen talk of a new Mid East buyer for Hibs does not sound so good.

I personally hope it is not true, the status quo does at the moment.

H18sry
21-07-2010, 12:48 PM
I think it was always STF aim, to get us debt free playing in a completed stadium, then sell his interest to somebody, who can take the club forward.

Riordans Boots
21-07-2010, 12:49 PM
Heard a few rumours recently --one that Petrie and a syndicate where looking at buying Hibs from Sir Tom another that a foreign buyer (mid east)was lookibg at a deal--No substance --I have no idea if true.

My question is : in the current market what would Hibs be valued at ?

anyone any ideas ?

Being a fan - the first word that comes into my head is - Priceless :agree:

Jack
21-07-2010, 12:50 PM
In answer to the question; bought and paid for training centre, bought and paid for modern stadium on ground we own so I’d go for around £50m for that lot.

Add to that playing staff so a further £20m and for goodwill around the same, and virtually no debt to set against that, so all in all considerably more than what Hearts are worth.

As for the rumours what a lot of jambo infested gossip.

Perspective
21-07-2010, 12:57 PM
It's wishful thinking, but I hope things stay as they are.

I'd like to see greater investment in the youth setup, but other than that I think we're the model for a modern, progressive club.

Woody70x2
21-07-2010, 12:59 PM
I suppose it really depends on the business model being operated... if it was a case of buying Hibs
then speculating to win the league / entering the Champions League by buying expensive players and
paying top wages whilst adding this to the balance sheet - it won't work - the legacy being left would
be an unservicable debt.

If it was an Arab with shed loads of money that will pay for everything up front whilst ensuring the
levels of debt does not increase... and underwriting costs when he decides to leave ensuring that
he leaves a big enough wad to allow us to get rid of high earners to bring back stability... then maybe?

Cannot see it...

I would love to see top players at Easter Road and us winning the league year in, year out... but
I would also love to know that Hibs will continue to operate for another 100+ years knowing that
future Woody's get to visit ER and experience that same pleasures as I have and do.

Spike Mandela
21-07-2010, 01:41 PM
It's wishful thinking, but I hope things stay as they are.

I'd like to see greater investment in the youth setup, but other than that I think we're the model for a modern, progressive club.

Maybe if you never want to win the league, a cup every seventeen years and Europe at most once every five years.

I know all the pragmatic financial dogma and understand it but if we really want to be progressive we need to start thinking about acheiving more things on the park IMHO.

Perspective
21-07-2010, 01:51 PM
Maybe if you never want to win the league, a cup every seventeen years and Europe at most once every five years.

I know all the pragmatic financial dogma and understand it but if we really want to be progressive we need to start thinking about acheiving more things on the park IMHO.

I liked Mogga's chat about an upward spiral.

Keep producing or sourcing good young players, sell them on at top dollar and use the funds to bring in a better standard of player ideally. So, in time, there should be a gradual increase in quality.

That's how I see us developing and continue to live within our means. That's not limited ambition, just a successful model that bigger clubs than us operate well - Sevilla, Porto, Lyon. What it does rely on is investment in a good youth and scouting set-up, good coaching and an opportunity for players to break into the team.

BT58
21-07-2010, 01:53 PM
wasnt there a thread like this in may or something which ran for page after page
maybe an admin can tell us
im sure that guy[or lady] said that something would be happening in the summer
well this is meant to be the summer, atho its a very WET one at that
b

ionahibby
21-07-2010, 01:56 PM
Load of rubbish imho yams stirring it me thinks :agree:

Spike Mandela
21-07-2010, 01:58 PM
I liked Mogga's chat about an upward spiral.

Keep producing or sourcing good young players, sell them on at top dollar and use the funds to bring in a better standard of player ideally. So, in time, there should be a gradual increase in quality.

That's how I see us developing and continue to live within our means. That's not limited ambition, just a successful model that bigger clubs than us operate well - Sevilla, Porto, Lyon. What it does rely on is investment in a good youth and scouting set-up, good coaching and an opportunity for players to break into the team.

It's just that I'm not getting any younger Perspective:boo hoo:

I'm fed up waiting on this snails pace upward spiral:wink:

Kyle A
21-07-2010, 01:59 PM
Right peeps get the piggy banks oot time for a whip round

jdships
21-07-2010, 02:00 PM
I think it was always STF aim, to get us debt free playing in a completed stadium, then sell his interest to somebody, who can take the club forward.

I have heard STF on more than one occasion put forward the idea of a "Trust" being set up to own/run HFC when he decided to stand down .
Sounds good to me in principle but in reality would it ensure we were properly funded ?

:confused:

marinello59
21-07-2010, 02:03 PM
The club isn't for sale is it? Like any business people can make an offer to buy it but that's a bit different from the club actively being marketed.
I rather suspect Rod Petrie is far too smart to even consider becoming the major shareholder of a football club, Hibs or not.
And if anybody from the middle east has cash to throw away at a football club it won't be one in the SPL. Perhaps a better title for the thread would be ''IF Hibs were for sale.''

Kyle A
21-07-2010, 02:24 PM
The club isn't for sale is it? Like any business people can make an offer to buy it but that's a bit different from the club actively being marketed.
I rather suspect Rod Petrie is far too smart to even consider becoming the major shareholder of a football club, Hibs or not.
And if anybody from the middle east has cash to throw away at a football club it won't be one in the SPL. Perhaps a better title for the thread would be ''IF Hibs were for sale.''


"Despite Hibs Billionaire arab owner spending £400 million buying the Spanish first team they were still beaten 3-2 in the scottish cup semi-final to queen of the south. Hibs Management team of sir alex ferguson, jose mourhino and pep gaurdiola issued a joint statement saying it just was not our year......again"

MyJo
21-07-2010, 02:42 PM
I liked Mogga's chat about an upward spiral.

Keep producing or sourcing good young players, sell them on at top dollar and use the funds to bring in a better standard of player ideally. So, in time, there should be a gradual increase in quality.

That's how I see us developing and continue to live within our means. That's not limited ambition, just a successful model that bigger clubs than us operate well - Sevilla, Porto, Lyon. What it does rely on is investment in a good youth and scouting set-up, good coaching and an opportunity for players to break into the team.

That is exactly what we're doing and its slow but steady progress.

5/6 years ago the prospect of a state of the art, fully owned, exclusive training centre and brand new east stand without substantially increasing our debt would have been considered impossible yet here we are having acheived all of those things while having won a major trophy and qualified for European football twice. Now that the infastructure is in place and the debt manageable the investment can only go one way, onto the park which has been shown in recent season with signings like Stokes, Riordan & Miller etc.

All that in 6 years is a tremendous acheivement set against a backdrop of the credit crunch and many football clubs in crisis and going into administration or liqidation and it shows we're doing things correctly and give it another 5 years we could very well be challenging the old firm and competing in europe regularly without living beyond our means or selling out and losing our identity by becoming the plaything of a wealthy foreigner.

We've worked hard for it and our time is coming soon but patience is required........Vive la revolution :greengrin

Dashing Bob S
21-07-2010, 02:59 PM
I liked Mogga's chat about an upward spiral.

Keep producing or sourcing good young players, sell them on at top dollar and use the funds to bring in a better standard of player ideally. So, in time, there should be a gradual increase in quality.

That's how I see us developing and continue to live within our means. That's not limited ambition, just a successful model that bigger clubs than us operate well - Sevilla, Porto, Lyon. What it does rely on is investment in a good youth and scouting set-up, good coaching and an opportunity for players to break into the team.

Great post. The teams you mention aren't historically bigger than us but have become so by operating the very model we've put in place. Of course footballs changed and were at a handicap in a backwater like the SPL. But the model is still the best one for a club like us.

TariqE
21-07-2010, 03:01 PM
It's wishful thinking, but I hope things stay as they are.

I'd like to see greater investment in the youth setup, but other than that I think we're the model for a modern, progressive club.

If Hibs were to be sold, that doesn't necessarily mean that things would change- the current model has been shown to work (from a financial perspective) and it would take some ego to think that suddenly we could spend/speculate far more than we currently do.


I have heard STF on more than one occasion put forward the idea of a "Trust" being set up to own/run HFC when he decided to stand down .
Sounds good to me in principle but in reality would it ensure we were properly funded ?

:confused:

I think that a sale would not necessarily be of the whole club. Perhaps it would be partially owned by a trust (which I would imagine would have a variety of trustees- maybe including Petrie and/or STF). I can imagine that STF would like to see the club at least partially owned by a trust made up of fans/local business people/grandees/investors.

Such a trust would have a constitution or rules in place (as trusts do) designed to prevent financial harm coming to the club. E.g. It would not be permitted to have a wage/turnover ratio of more than 65% for more than 2 years running or somethings like that and a certain amount of turnover/player sales income is ringfenced for investment in the youth academy.


The club isn't for sale is it? Like any business people can make an offer to buy it but that's a bit different from the club actively being marketed.
I rather suspect Rod Petrie is far too smart to even consider becoming the major shareholder of a football club, Hibs or not.
And if anybody from the middle east has cash to throw away at a football club it won't be one in the SPL. Perhaps a better title for the thread would be ''IF Hibs were for sale.''

In the event of a sale, I reckon that Rod would be front runner to become majority/largest shareholder if he wasn't to be a trustee as described above. Rod already owns 10% and has done well out of Hibs (as we have from him)- why not take a bigger slice if STF wants to sell/reduce his shareholding? I also reckon that STF would feel like he was leaving Hibs in very safe hands were this to happen (as would I and many other fans). Rod would not see it as a big risk because he knows that his model is working and has generated cash for the club and therefore himself already.

I don't think it is at all likely that we would be sold to a big money investor with ideas that are significantly different to those operating at the moment.

A sale could be a good thing and would likely (imo) put the club more in the hands of the community- something that I'm certain STF would be proud to see happen.

Matty_Jack04
21-07-2010, 03:16 PM
Ive heard many times over the last 5 years especially, that STF is willing to stand down and let someone have the reigns BUT he is adamant that it wont be to anyone who doesnt have the best intrests of hibs at heart and they must prove they have the money to take us to the next level.

Personally I dont see the problem in continuing with the way we are going. we have the training centre, we have the completed stadium, give it a couple more years and im pretty sure we'l begin to see rises in the budgets available to the manager, meaning better quality on the park which in turn will see more people returning to watch.

spend spend spend is all good for short term success.......ask any hun ....not so good when it catches up on you.

Perspective
21-07-2010, 03:19 PM
For all we know Rod Petrie might fancy a clean break.

Alternatively, he always seems to be involved in high-powered SPL/SFA committees for various things so maybe he has eyes on a bigger prize domestically or with UEFA/FIFA. I'm sure he'd miss the cut-throat transfer negotiations if he was to go.

Kyle A
21-07-2010, 03:48 PM
For all we know Rod Petrie might fancy a clean break.

Alternatively, he always seems to be involved in high-powered SPL/SFA committees for various things so maybe he has eyes on a bigger prize domestically or with UEFA/FIFA. I'm sure he'd miss the cut-throat transfer negotiations if he was to go.


Im buying a new house, wonder what his commision would be to negotiate the deal? im thinking 30% sell on clause on my old house

blairwallace
21-07-2010, 03:56 PM
i remember the stadium alone was worth £24m before the east was rebuilt, remember seeing it on a website ages ago so if that was just the stadium throw in the team, training centre and add the value of the east then surely its a fair bit more :thumbsup:

new malkyhib
21-07-2010, 04:21 PM
Maybe if you never want to win the league, a cup every seventeen years and Europe at most once every five years.

I know all the pragmatic financial dogma and understand it but if we really want to be progressive we need to start thinking about acheiving more things on the park IMHO.

:top marks

TheBall'sRound
21-07-2010, 04:49 PM
That is exactly what we're doing and its slow but steady progress.

5/6 years ago the prospect of a state of the art, fully owned, exclusive training centre and brand new east stand without substantially increasing our debt would have been considered impossible yet here we are having acheived all of those things while having won a major trophy and qualified for European football twice. Now that the infastructure is in place and the debt manageable the investment can only go one way, onto the park which has been shown in recent season with signings like Stokes, Riordan & Miller etc.

All that in 6 years is a tremendous acheivement set against a backdrop of the credit crunch and many football clubs in crisis and going into administration or liqidation and it shows we're doing things correctly and give it another 5 years we could very well be challenging the old firm and competing in europe regularly without living beyond our means or selling out and losing our identity by becoming the plaything of a wealthy foreigner.

We've worked hard for it and our time is coming soon but patience is required........Vive la revolution :greengrin

There really is no reason why we couldn't use the Arsenal model - hoover up all the top quality youngsters available by paying them comparatively good wages for their age group (which would probably still be below the wages of Brian Kerr, Alan O'Brien and Zibi Malkowski).

It's a fantastic draw for a young player if you have a top class training facility, a relatively decent wage, a real opportunity to play top division football in a team that's going places and a coaching team that encourages and nurtures you.

As long as you realise that the best players will move on and you create an unwritten rule that you don't sell on to another SPL team, the finances of the club should look after themselves.

We're still struggling to attract the best players because we're paying them £150 a week, we've recently been investing in some good and not so good older players from outwith the SPL and we're not Celtic or Rangers.

It won't take too much to turn all that around - you could say we were the best draw in the country for youngsters after the Mowbray era and I don't think that's totally unrelated to winning the U19 league and cup double a couple of years ago.

With the stadium finished I would be looking for Hibs to present a clear organisation and infrastructure that focusses on being the number one choice for every aspiring teenager in Scotland. That is how we'll achieve success and rise up from the "best of the rest" race, not by gambling the cash on journeymen or spending big on a player in their early 20's with potential.

Kaiser1962
21-07-2010, 05:16 PM
Maybe if you never want to win the league, a cup every seventeen years and Europe at most once every five years.

I know all the pragmatic financial dogma and understand it but if we really want to be progressive we need to start thinking about acheiving more things on the park IMHO.

Tried that late 80's and nearly went bust (technically we were)
Tried again early 00's and rattled up debt that made Vlad look prudent and won hee haw.
Maybe we should follow the Vlad model and spend 40 million and win........a cup.

No thanks. I believe all this talk is a pile of manure and hope it is just that.

Green_one
21-07-2010, 06:23 PM
Only a mad man would buy a football club or one with crazy money to burn. I give you Hearts, Portsmouth etc:eek:

If the likes of Rangers and Liverpool do not have anyone beating on their door, why would we?

No-one with serious cash would throw money at Hibs. They will never get into the big league. You can already see the frustration of the likes of the Celtic owners, who hoped they could sneek into the big time but are now stuck in a back water.

A trust would probably be the best long term substitute for STF. It will take the wisdom of Solomon to write the rules that would protect us from ourselves.

Spike Mandela
21-07-2010, 06:51 PM
Tried that late 80's and nearly went bust (technically we were)
Tried again early 00's and rattled up debt that made Vlad look prudent and won hee haw.
Maybe we should follow the Vlad model and spend 40 million and win........a cup.

No thanks. I believe all this talk is a pile of manure and hope it is just that.

As usual people think the only way to be successful on the park is to throw outrageous amounts of money at the team to the point of liquidation. Something you read in to my post which wasn't mentioned at all.

There are ways of being progressive which don't include throwing oodles of money around. Hibs have went the infastructure way and have scores of people on here orgasmic but it has held back Hibs' wage budget for 15-20 years and hence the squad depth and football is improving at a snails pace IMO.

In my lifetime of supporting Hibs we haven't seriously challenged for the league (barring possibly Turnballs Tornadoes which I can't really remember seeing) but Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have won it and they along with Hearts have come close on a number of occasions. Dundee Utd won the Cup last year and comfortably finished third but have no training centre and a ****hole of a stadiuum. Do you think their fans give a toss about that?

If a new owner and a different strategy come in we may see a different approach to investment of money on the team rather than buildings without spending money we/they can't afford and hopefully improve the team at a quicker pace.

Bostonhibby
21-07-2010, 07:11 PM
"Despite Hibs Billionaire arab owner spending £400 million buying the Spanish first team they were still beaten 3-2 in the scottish cup semi-final to queen of the south. Hibs Management team of sir alex ferguson, jose mourhino and pep gaurdiola issued a joint statement saying it just was not our year......again"

:faf: Sir Alex said "the turning point was definitely the 5-1 thrashing at St. Johnstone that we never recovered from and thats why the Easter Rd galacticos ultimately flopped out of the cup in Dingwall, Ross County were too good for Messi, Fabregas and Torres on the night, I am so disappointed in the performance that we will not now be stopping at the Chippy in Glenrothes on the way back, however much the players were looking forward to it".

Kaiser1962
21-07-2010, 07:39 PM
As usual people think the only way to be successful on the park is to throw outrageous amounts of money at the team to the point of liquidation. Something you read in to my post which wasn't mentioned at all.

If a new owner and a different strategy come in we may see a different approach to investment of money on the team rather than buildings without spending money we/they can't afford and hopefully improve the team at a quicker pace.

The bit in bold.
What different strategy do you suggest other than the ones mentioned here? Speculate to accumulate etc etc. Heard it all before. many times. You either bring players through and hold them as long as we can, like we're doing, and sell them before they move for free. Or pay them over the odds and with money you dont have, like Hearts do. Money in equals money out. Anything else is suicide. We appear to working to a plan and it looks like most of the big spending on infrastructure appears to almost complete. Hopefully that will allow us to compete better against those at our level.
The world, particularly the football world, is a different place than it was in the 70's and early 80's and yes, I remember it well. Then Hibs (and others) could get close to the money the old firm paid, now the differential is 10 times or more.

WindyMiller
21-07-2010, 07:41 PM
Only a mad man would buy a football club or one with crazy money to burn. I give you Hearts, Portsmouth etc:eek:

If the likes of Rangers and Liverpool do not have anyone beating on their door, why would we?

No-one with serious cash would throw money at Hibs. They will never get into the big league. You can already see the frustration of the likes of the Celtic owners, who hoped they could sneek into the big time but are now stuck in a back water.

A trust would probably be the best long term substitute for STF. It will take the wisdom of Solomon to write the rules that would protect us from ourselves.

You're a wise man my friend.

WindyMiller
21-07-2010, 07:44 PM
As usual people think the only way to be successful on the park is to throw outrageous amounts of money at the team to the point of liquidation. Something you read in to my post which wasn't mentioned at all.

There are ways of being progressive which don't include throwing oodles of money around. Hibs have went the infastructure way and have scores of people on here orgasmic but it has held back Hibs' wage budget for 15-20 years and hence the squad depth and football is improving at a snails pace IMO.

In my lifetime of supporting Hibs we haven't seriously challenged for the league (barring possibly Turnballs Tornadoes which I can't really remember seeing) but Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have won it and they along with Hearts have come close on a number of occasions. Dundee Utd won the Cup last year and comfortably finished third but have no training centre and a ****hole of a stadiuum. Do you think their fans give a toss about that?

If a new owner and a different strategy come in we may see a different approach to investment of money on the team rather than buildings without spending money we/they can't afford and hopefully improve the team at a quicker pace.

You could at least do the man the courtesy of spelling his name right

Spike Mandela
21-07-2010, 07:47 PM
The bit in bold.
What different strategy do you suggest other than the ones mentioned here? Speculate to accumulate etc etc. Heard it all before. many times. You either bring players through and hold them as long as we can, like we're doing, and sell them before they move for free. Or pay them over the odds and with money you dont have, like Hearts do. Money in equals money out. Anything else is suicide. We appear to working to a plan and it looks like most of the big spending on infrastructure appears to almost complete. Hopefully that will allow us to compete better against those at our level. The world, particularly the football world, is a different place than it was in the 70's and early 80's and yes, I remember it well. Then Hibs (and others) could get close to the money the old firm paid, now the differential is 10 times or more.


This is the crucial point for progress but not sure if the current owners have any desire to increase the investment in this area anytime too soon. RP by nature seems very cautious which has stood him in good stead.

All I am saying Kaiser is if the current people don't want to build on the excellent grounding they have painstakingly prepared perhaps there is someone more football minded who can provide the investment in playing staff without being reckless a la Vlad.

Spike Mandela
21-07-2010, 07:51 PM
You could at least do the man the courtesy of spelling his name right

At least I got Tornadoes right:greengrin:blushie:

Kaiser1962
21-07-2010, 08:09 PM
This is the crucial point for progress but not sure if the current owners have any desire to increase the investment in this area anytime too soon. RP by nature seems very cautious which has stood him in good stead.

All I am saying Kaiser is if the current people don't want to build on the excellent grounding they have painstakingly prepared perhaps there is someone more football minded who can provide the investment in playing staff without being reckless a la Vlad.

And like you Spike, I am hoping that now, at least it appears to be, the spending on the infrastructure of the club is nearing completion, the custodians may be able to allocate more funding to the playing side without risking the future of the club. Our competitors in Scotland are Aberdeen and Hearts with United a bit back. We should be competing with mid table Championship clubs and hopefully the lure of occasional Europe outings and Cup semi's and Finals should attract the more success orientated players when given a straight choice. Even if we do have to sell them just afterwards......

Hibs On Tour
22-07-2010, 12:01 AM
"Despite Hibs Billionaire arab owner spending £400 million buying the Spanish first team they were still beaten 3-2 in the scottish cup semi-final to queen of the south. Hibs Management team of sir alex ferguson, jose mourhino and pep gaurdiola issued a joint statement saying it just was not our year......again"

:top marks