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View Full Version : The SPL house of cards.



Jack
13-07-2010, 01:31 PM
Huns in varying degrees of destitution depending on who you listen to, but whoever it is, its not a good tale to tell.

Hearts, no need to go over all we know about them.

Killie, Motherwell, Dundee Utd not in good shape and Aberdeen could be homeless by the time we play them next April.

All well established SPL clubs.

Dunfermline AFC is probably one of the better placed clubs to replace anyone who goes and, sadly, an example of how they will not provide the same support to the SPL was evident last Saturday.

So if any of these clubs goes its likely, IMO, to have a knock on effect that could bring down a series of clubs and the SPL, in fact the whole football set up in Scotland, would be traumatised. Hibs, Celtc and maybe one other of the ‘established’ SPL clubs left.

This however is not good news for Hibs.

You're more likely to change your spouse than you are the club you support so I cant see Hibs picking up waifs and strays, at least in the short term, and for the long term vastly reduced crowds, and lack of competition, could lead to our demise as well.

Scotland isn’t alone, there are many English clubs in the same perilous position as the ropey SPL clubs mentioned earlier.

A GB league anyone?

Sas_The_Hibby
13-07-2010, 01:46 PM
And I was in a good mood until I read this post! :grr:

Suspect it won't ever be quite as grim as you suggest but whilst we've been expecting to see a major club go bust for quite a time, without it happening, something's got to give sometime - perhaps not too far away from here! :wink:

I'm in favour of a GB league but can't see it happening in the foreseeable future. I think it would be good for Scottish clubs but there'd be nothing in it for English clubs, who therefore would never agree to it. Plus (not wanting to start a whole new thread :greengrin) there's the issue of Scotland's international status, which would be put at risk.

MacBean
13-07-2010, 01:46 PM
Huns in varying degrees of destitution depending on who you listen to, but whoever it is, its not a good tale to tell.

Hearts, no need to go over all we know about them.

Killie, Motherwell, Dundee Utd not in good shape and Aberdeen could be homeless by the time we play them next April.

All well established SPL clubs.

Dunfermline AFC is probably one of the better placed clubs to replace anyone who goes and, sadly, an example of how they will not provide the same support to the SPL was evident last Saturday.

So if any of these clubs goes its likely, IMO, to have a knock on effect that could bring down a series of clubs and the SPL, in fact the whole football set up in Scotland, would be traumatised. Hibs, Celtc and maybe one other of the ‘established’ SPL clubs left.

This however is not good news for Hibs.

You're more likely to change your spouse than you are the club you support so I cant see Hibs picking up waifs and strays, at least in the short term, and for the long term vastly reduced crowds, and lack of competition, could lead to our demise as well.

Scotland isn’t alone, there are many English clubs in the same perilous position as the ropey SPL clubs mentioned earlier.

A GB league anyone?

British football will change in the next 20 years. I cant see the SPL surviving without radical change.
Hibs are very well positioned to join a "british league".

Dashing Bob S
13-07-2010, 01:48 PM
I think an Atlantic federated league of smaller countries, the Scandinavian trio, SPL, Dutch and Belgian leagues would be a better bet. It would have English language broadcast appeal and after a while grow to rival the big four western European leagues. We will have to wait till crisis point before anything happens however.

bighairyfaeleith
13-07-2010, 01:49 PM
I think it more likely that we would just cut right back again, our weekly wage would drop from around 4-5k to around 1-2k. The product on the pitch would suffer for a while, but eventually it would pickup again through regular european income.

The teams that went bust would eventually come back again and the cycle would start again. Aberdeen would defo start up again in some form, might take a few years but too big a support to languish in lower divisions for too long.

Hearts would probably take a bit longer as loanhead isn't that big a town, but they would probably get there eventually:greengrin

--------
13-07-2010, 01:54 PM
British football will change in the next 20 years. I cant see the SPL surviving without radical change.

Hibs are very well positioned to join a "british league".




:agree: We have the financial stability and the completed infrastructure to be welcome as a member of any League that emerges after financial meltdown, "British" or "Atlantic".

Allowing for the different levels of TV sponsorship between the two Leagues, we're about equivalent to a mid-table Championship side now. I'd say that a few lower-EPL sides would be more than happy to have our stadium and training-ground (and annual trading balance?) too.

Owain_1987
13-07-2010, 02:02 PM
I have nothing against a GB league with non leagues in each country also. Such as the conference North and South could change to a Welsh or Scottish equivalent. Think could make everything more interesting although of course United and Chelsea would still be the best sides. I think we are a bigger club than a fair few down south so would fancy our chances in the top league with the same money as they have.

Kaiser1962
13-07-2010, 02:23 PM
I have argued before that there is an inevitability about all this throughout the EU, but particularly in the UK. Possible exception being the German's who seem to regulate their clubs very well. The positions of the clubs mentioned are extremely unsteady although I would imaging Rangers will be ok and possibly Aberdeen, but the Don's position is entirely dependent on Stewart Milne. He has the means to enable them to survive but whether he desires this, or displays the same sense of community as Farmer, remains to be seen. Motherwell, Kilmarnock and Dundee United seem to be most at risk (young Thompson ain't his faither). And as for Hearts.......

Along with some 1st Division Clubs I can see the whole landscape changing dramatically in Scotland, and beyond, over the next 10 years.

IWasThere2016
13-07-2010, 03:25 PM
I think an Atlantic federated league of smaller countries, the Scandinavian trio, SPL, Dutch and Belgian leagues would be a better bet. It would have English language broadcast appeal and after a while grow to rival the big four western European leagues. We will have to wait till crisis point before anything happens however.

:agree: Yup, the heids are in the sand til then.


I have argued before that there is an inevitability about all this throughout the EU, but particularly in the UK. Possible exception being the German's who seem to regulate their clubs very well. The positions of the clubs mentioned are extremely unsteady although I would imaging Rangers will be ok and possibly Aberdeen, but the Don's position is entirely dependent on Stewart Milne. He has the means to enable them to survive but whether he desires this, or displays the same sense of community as Farmer, remains to be seen. Motherwell, Kilmarnock and Dundee United seem to be most at risk (young Thompson ain't his faither). And as for Hearts.......

Along with some 1st Division Clubs I can see the whole landscape changing dramatically in Scotland, and beyond, over the next 10 years.

The Scottish game is dying on its feet - and we can only have the need for a 21,000 seater stadium for the short-term. Long-term the only use will be within a new league (eg UK) set-up IMHO or the demise of the Yams and Edinburgh becomes a one-team city.

RoscoHibby
13-07-2010, 04:59 PM
Thought this was going to be a thread about how healthy a position the Hibs are in compared to their rivals!

Quite depressing reading to be honest. I think will take a bit longer than some projecting, there are still a core of fans (that are still here!) that will still go and support their teams regardless. Its habit, we tend to be creatures of habit.

Re. Huns, hertz, sheep, utd and the rest......let them eat cack I say :bye:

Sas_The_Hibby
13-07-2010, 06:42 PM
I have nothing against a GB league with non leagues in each country also. Such as the conference North and South could change to a Welsh or Scottish equivalent. Think could make everything more interesting although of course United and Chelsea would still be the best sides. I think we are a bigger club than a fair few down south so would fancy our chances in the top league with the same money as they have.

I know Dundee United did very well to finish third last year, but I think that's taking things a bit far! :greengrin

DAZ86
13-07-2010, 06:56 PM
I dont think it is that bad to tbh. We are in poor economic time which everyone in world football (bar the really big clubs) are being affected by. Yet we are actually increasing our stadium , training facilities etc. We have a new sponsor (Puma) proving a decent sports brand still wants to be seen in scotland.

It will take time but I think we will emerge as a force in the SPL as celtic and rangers are not exactly miles ahead in terms of playing staff these days.

There are no real stories of clubs going out of business , airdrie , clydebank.... These teams had much bigger issue than an economic downturn , which is our main issue at the moment.

Give it time and we will prove to be the best option for a safe investment in scottish football.

:thumbsup::yawn::thumbsup:

sunshine1875
13-07-2010, 08:53 PM
I am sure that many will not agree, but I would rather a British League than the SPL. Okay, Hibs might find themselves in the third tier. But we could have games against Huddersfield, Peterborough, Carlisle, Charlton, Bristol Rivers etc and having watched some of their matches on SSN they are full of excitement, large and noisy crowds. I would rather that than playing home to Killie, ICT etc. The contrast between the lively English First Division and the SPL is like night and day, except when the Infirm and Hertz are in town.

There would also be the chance of getting one of the English teams to a packed Easter Road with the hope of promotion to the Championship.

Bring it on.......

greenlex
13-07-2010, 09:03 PM
Euro league is about ten to fifteen years away.

ScottB
13-07-2010, 09:18 PM
Hibs would be well placed in a unified British League, we have squad capable of mixing it in the Championship on a shoe string budget, with the larger amounts of cash coming in we could get to the Premiership, in such a circumstance a team like Hibs could easily emulate the Blackpools, Burnleys, Stokes et all.

It will be interesting in that years ago people predicted major league changes in Europe would come about through the clubs getting too rich and wanting more, more likely it will be to avoid financial collapse...

southern hibby
13-07-2010, 09:41 PM
gents,
What i am mentioning below is just a thought and only a thought, but ...........

We have for years lead the way in scottish and British football, i.e. Europe, underground heating, etc etc ec.

Imagine if we handed our 2 years resignation into the SFA ( I think i read somewhere it's 2 years to leave) and at the same time applied to join England's non league football and slowly (Or GOD willing) quickly worked our way up into the leaque and then on and upwards.
The infirm have been talking about joining the premiership for years and it's all talk as they do not want to join where they wold have to to make it legal.
Yet again could or should our GREAT CLUB Lead the way into uncharted waters?

There would be pros and cons:
I could see an improvement in crowds at Easter Road as it would be a change of teams and we would obviously have a team capable of working its way up the leagues.
Would players want to stay (maybe maybe not) to be a part of something unique or would they want to move on to a higher league until we aventually get there.
There are numerous other questions that would need to be asked and then answered, however I am not mentioning this should or should not happen but only suggestion what is Food For Thought.

I for one would be seriously interested in it as I live down south and it would be easier for me to go to games: However I would ALWAYS put the best interests of Hibs before mine.

Raymond Weil
13-07-2010, 11:04 PM
Aberdeen debt £13m, turnover £8.5m http://www.afc.co.uk/staticFiles/79/41/0,,10284~147833,00.pdf
Dundee Utd debt £6m, turnover £6m
http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=3428
Kilmarnock debt £11m, turnover £7m
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/kilmarnock/kilmarnock-lose-565-000-in-wake-of-setanta-collapse-1.1010475

Hate to say it, something will give and soon. We are totally dependant on these and all the other clubs in the league, we can't play in a league on out own. DU are not that badly off and have a few saleable assets in their squad. Aberdeen are still making a loss but the sale of Pittodrie will save them.
Kilmarnock base their safety on valuing Rugby Park at £11m. Pretty certain they are the ones in most trouble, just can't see a way out for them.

jgl07
13-07-2010, 11:59 PM
Euro league is about ten to fifteen years away.
I recall that being said in 1995.

Aubenas
14-07-2010, 01:09 AM
Kilmarnock base their safety on valuing Rugby Park at £11m. Pretty certain they are the ones in most trouble, just can't see a way out for them.

Killie fans I know say that the plan is that the minute league reorganisation (ie no relegation) is announced, they will go into administration. Mixu therefore, under that scenario, would have two years to get it right.

As to UK/European leagues, folk always think that the lure of the new will make them successful, but, as has been mentioned, football fans are creatures of habit and react to identifiable tags for their clubs and others. Sure there are games just now that are less than dynamic in their appeal, but does Hibs v Peterborough or Alkmaar really sound a whole lot better? The reality is that national leagues will find their level, the mega rich clubs will always find ways of fiddling with competitions to protect their income and the rest will have games and leagues that reflect their realistic catchment and income. Twas ever thus.

LancashireHibby
14-07-2010, 12:48 PM
I think what has to be considered about a British league is that all bar the top one/two divisions would have to be regionalised to an extent anyway - there's no way the aforementioned Bristol Rovers could keep paying out for a few trips to Scotland each season, and it'd mean a huge reduction in away support.

Wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I don't know how they'd decide which division clubs should be entered to in the first place other than doing a franchise-type system, something I'd be wholly against.

MyJo
14-07-2010, 01:25 PM
A GB league anyone?

A GB league would be the first step to abolishing the home nations and enforcing a team GB at national level.........then we'd all have the embarrasment of being represented by pish, overpaid eeengerlanders at world cups :greengrin

MyJo
14-07-2010, 01:29 PM
I think what has to be considered about a British league is that all bar the top one/two divisions would have to be regionalised to an extent anyway - there's no way the aforementioned Bristol Rovers could keep paying out for a few trips to Scotland each season, and it'd mean a huge reduction in away support.

Wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I don't know how they'd decide which division clubs should be entered to in the first place other than doing a franchise-type system, something I'd be wholly against.

Probably something along the lines of the swedish system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_football_league_system)but with bigger leagues and regionalising between North england & scotland and South England & wales.

darwenhibby
14-07-2010, 01:35 PM
I think what has to be considered about a British league is that all bar the top one/two divisions would have to be regionalised to an extent anyway - there's no way the aforementioned Bristol Rovers could keep paying out for a few trips to Scotland each season, and it'd mean a huge reduction in away support.

Wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I don't know how they'd decide which division clubs should be entered to in the first place other than doing a franchise-type system, something I'd be wholly against.

A pyramid system at UK National Level and again a system at regional level with play off qualifiers as to who gains entry to the equivilent of the championship would only work.
The regional pyramids would be split North Of Eng, South of England & Scotland.
The only teams with the potential to compete at a national level from Scotland would be Celtic Rangers Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen. Rarely would we see another team win the play offs against the best teams of the English regions.

At the expense of this we would lose the national team and association. Not for me as I am just as much a Scotland supporter as Hibs.

Progression into a North Atlantic League would be better. Not seeing the same teams four times a season.
Interest would be generated with more competition.
The teams left behind in each national league could play in a play off to enter the North Atlantic League.
This would allow them to gain a degree of experience in European Football.
The down sides are who would be entiltled to CL places and would we warrant 5 clubs in a North Atlantic League, possibly 3 at the most from each interested nation ie Holland Belgium Portugal Scotland. How many teams would the Scandanavian Countries request as well as Eastern Europe and then how many game would we have to play.

As a result we will always have to make the most of what we have already got and at the moment Hibs are in one of the best financial positions to benefit from a poor state of our game

The Silver Fox
14-07-2010, 01:52 PM
Don't kid yourselves about an amalgamation with the English leagues.

Both Rangers and Celtic made a serious attempt to get in and they were not wanted. Hibs are currently in a better position than many others but what travelling support do Killie and Dundee Utd have?

What English team in League 1 is going to want to travel up to Aberdeen for a midweek game of football?

The English will look to see what Scottish clubs can offer and to be honest apart from a few clubs Hibs included, few if any have anything to offer. There are only about 6 or 7 clubs in Scotland that get any kind of decent support. The rest are very poor. Most of Div 2 and 3 in Scotland may as well be junior clubs for all the supporters they get through the doors.