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Antifa Hibs
13-07-2010, 09:06 AM
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1819704?UserKey=
This could see the Dons ****ed! A recent survey and consultation with the fans has shown 81% are against the move and 67% said they would attend less matches.

They appear to be basing it on Darlingtons stadium :faf:

All this brings back those horrible memories of Straiton!

Rodders & STF :not worth

Pretty Boy
13-07-2010, 11:00 AM
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1819704?UserKey=
This could see the Dons ****ed! A recent survey and consultation with the fans has shown 81% are against the move and 67% said they would attend less matches.

They appear to be basing it on Darlingtons stadium :faf:

All this brings back those horrible memories of Straiton!

Rodders & STF :not worth

TBH folk from Aberdeen seem to be against just about anything that gets proposed up here.

The new Civic Square- Everyones against it
Trumps golf course- Everyones against it
Union Square shopping centre- There were protests against it until it was built

I live up here and the council want to put a recycling facility in the car park outside my flat. I had a neighbour banging on my door the other night asking me to sign a petition against it because it would deprive our car park, which sits half empty most of the time, of 3 whole parking spaces. I told her where to go.

Aberdeen are in a total mess financially, they almost make Hearts look well run. The selling of Pitoddrie and moving out of town to a part council funded facility is pretty much last chance saloon. It all stems to their delusions about how big a club they are, some of them really believe they are a well known big club around Europe. They built an absolutely ridiculous white elephant of a stand in the mid 1990s but gave no consideration to upgrading the rest of the ground. Now they have a huge stand which sits half empty week in, week out and the rest of the stadium is falling apart at the seams. They have no money to invest in the team, no training facilities of their own (although the sports village that they use is a world class facility) and no players of real high value to sell at the moment, unless you believe Mark McGhee that Fraser Fyvie is worth £10M. They went for a speculate to accumulate policy in the 90s, £1M for Paul Bernard anyone? and it backfired big time.

The move out of town is dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. If they stay at Pittodrie they lose a huge wedge of cash from the sale of the land and are left with a stadium unfit for purpose with a dwindling fan base and spiralling debts. If they move out of town they get help paying for a shiny new 25 000 seater stadium whilst partially reducing debts, unfortunately for them there already piss poor home support will dwindle away to about 7-8000 and they will lose huge ammounts of revenue this way.

Makes me grateful i'm a Hibs supporter.

Hainan Hibs
13-07-2010, 11:10 AM
Utterly fantastic news.

I've been up there for University and I still have Gothenburg and facts about their glorious period in the 1980's thrown at me, ironically from people born in 1990.

They still perceive Aberdeen to be a giant in Europe, as if people are wandering around Madrid still talking about facing the mighty Aberdeen FC. None of them accept they are now a bottom six SPL team with absolutely no funds and are completely and utterly *****.

NORTHERNHIBBY
13-07-2010, 11:11 AM
Actually, Darlington's stadium is superb. Some teams in the Premiership have lesser facilities. You don't need graph paper however, to work out why a team that has just fallen out of the football league can't fill a 25,000 ground.
Oxford United have had the same trouble. The Kassam [?] Stadium is equally impressive, but perhaps too much of a drain on the the budget.
The clever model is MK Dons. Built at enough capacity to cater for where they are just now, but can be easily extended.

marinello59
13-07-2010, 11:19 AM
If they move out of town they get help paying for a shiny new 25 000 seater stadium whilst partially reducing debts, unfortunately for them there already piss poor home support will dwindle away to about 7-8000 and they will lose huge ammounts of revenue this way.

Makes me grateful i'm a Hibs supporter.

No they don't. The council helped fund the initial planning stages then announced that was the extent of their commitment. There will be no more public money involved. Stewart Milne recently admitted there isn't actually any funding in place for this move. How terribly, terribly sad.:greengrin

Posh Swanny
13-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Actually, Darlington's stadium is superb. Some teams in the Premiership have lesser facilities. You don't need graph paper however, to work out why a team that has just fallen out of the football league can't fill a 25,000 ground.
Oxford United have had the same trouble. The Kassam [?] Stadium is equally impressive, but perhaps too much of a drain on the the budget.
The clever model is MK Dons. Built at enough capacity to cater for where they are just now, but can be easily extended.

Agree with the principle, but stadium:MK itself doesn't need extending. It's already built to hold something like 32,000, they just need to put some seats into the top tier whenever they're be required. With this in mind, I'm not sure how much money they will have saved by doing this - and the stadium looks a bit tatty and unfinished in the meantime.

http://img.skysports.com/08/07/480/MK-Dons--Stadium-MK_1066443.jpg

heretoday
13-07-2010, 11:22 AM
I paid a visit to Aberdeen FC recently and it was a depressing experience. No one about. Office closed. Stands starting to look run down. It's pretty bleak at that end of the city.

They did us all proud winning the ECWC and standing up to the OF but they are on the way out unless they get some cash in and rebuild somewhere else. I hope they do.

Gatecrasher
13-07-2010, 11:26 AM
No they don't. The council helped fund the initial planning stages then announced that was the extent of their commitment. There will be no more public money involved. Stewart Milne recently admitted there isn't actually any funding in place for this move. How terribly, terribly sad.:greengrin

So groundsharing with ICT may be on the cards :devil:

SunshineOnLeith
13-07-2010, 11:27 AM
no training facilities of their own (although the sports village that they use is a world class facility)

They only used the Sports Village in the winter when outdoor pitches were frozen. Pretty sure they're back at Balgownie/Duthie Park etc now. They were offered the chance to 'do a Hearts' with the Sports Village, and pay to have it in a similar way to Hearts have Heriot-Watt's facilities but they turned it down. When they were in there in the winter they were paying full price for their bookings I believe. It's incredible when you consider that ASV is a stones throw from Pittodrie.

Bafflingly poorly run club.

hughio
13-07-2010, 11:39 AM
I think its a great shame.

When I lived there Pitoddrie was a fine ground and in recent years I accept its a bit dog eared.
To sell it for property developement (as Stewarty Milne wants to do) is just profiteering.
The ground sits in the heart of the community and if they move it out to the proposed wasteland up high on the approaches to the city (cold north easterlies perhaps) I predict it will be the death of the Club.My pals who live up there confirm they wont be going and their pals also agree.

Milne is a menace and hopefully the fans will see him off.

NORTHERNHIBBY
13-07-2010, 11:51 AM
Agree with the principle, but stadium:MK itself doesn't need extending. It's already built to hold something like 32,000, they just need to put some seats into the top tier whenever they're be required. With this in mind, I'm not sure how much money they will have saved by doing this - and the stadium looks a bit tatty and unfinished in the meantime.

http://img.skysports.com/08/07/480/MK-Dons--Stadium-MK_1066443.jpg


Actually, you don't notice it so much when you are watching the game. Bit like when you sat in the old east and looked at the rest of the ground and thought it looked great.:greengrin

rubber mal
13-07-2010, 11:54 AM
No they don't. The council helped fund the initial planning stages then announced that was the extent of their commitment. There will be no more public money involved. Stewart Milne recently admitted there isn't actually any funding in place for this move. How terribly, terribly sad.:greengrin

And neither they should. I would be furious if the sheep or any other club was given public money to help fund a new stadium, while every other club has to use their own cash, often to the detriment of the team.

bighairyfaeleith
13-07-2010, 11:54 AM
I think its a great shame.

When I lived there Pitoddrie was a fine ground and in recent years I accept its a bit dog eared.
To sell it for property developement (as Stewarty Milne wants to do) is just profiteering.
The ground sits in the heart of the community and if they move it out to the proposed wasteland up high on the approaches to the city (cold north easterlies perhaps) I predict it will be the death of the Club.My pals who live up there confirm they wont be going and their pals also agree.

Milne is a menace and hopefully the fans will see him off.

Whats the alternative?

CB_NO3
13-07-2010, 12:00 PM
Good news if you ask me, i can see us winning the league in a few years at this rate with the huns, hearts and the sheep all going bust haha. On a serious note though this could see Aberdeens crowds drop big and they could end up like a Killie or Motherwell with their only source of income is to give 10 or 15 thousand seats to the old firm.

Caversham Green
13-07-2010, 12:39 PM
They have a real problem. A bank loan of £9.7m plus accrued interest is due for repayment on 10 March 2011. The plan was that this would be paid out of the proceeds of the sale of 'Todders and a move to a 'community' stadium - which is presumably what the OP refers to. Various parts of this plan seem to have fallen through and the whole thing seems to be well behind schedule, but that loan (up to about £12m with interest) will still have to be paid. It seems unlikely that the bank will extend the terms of the loan, so they could find themselves homeless if they can't arrange alternative finance.

The bank has security over the ground which is owned by a separate subsidiary company to the football club.

sahib
13-07-2010, 12:42 PM
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1819704?UserKey=
This could see the Dons ****ed! A recent survey and consultation with the fans has shown 81% are against the move and 67% said they would attend less matches.

They appear to be basing it on Darlingtons stadium :faf:

All this brings back those horrible memories of Straiton!

Rodders & STF :not worth

People always say stuff like that. If they build a decent wee stadium with decent transport links then they will be ok, I suspect. People moaned about the demise of the most recent manifestation of the East terrace. Now the new one is lauded as if it were a ruddy architectural marvel and a thing of beauty.

Caversham Green
13-07-2010, 12:49 PM
People always say stuff like that. If they build a decent wee stadium with decent transport links then they will be ok, I suspect. People moaned about the demise of the most recent manifestation of the East terrace. Now the new one is lauded as if it were a ruddy architectural marvel and a thing of beauty.

:agree: I think a new stadium is always likely to attract new people in as well - that certainly happened down here with the Mad Stad. They need to get the thing built though, and sharpish.

--------
13-07-2010, 12:50 PM
No they don't. The council helped fund the initial planning stages then announced that was the extent of their commitment. There will be no more public money involved. Stewart Milne recently admitted there isn't actually any funding in place for this move. How terribly, terribly sad.:greengrin

Oh dearie dearie me. :devil:

You mean that ALL the money they get from selling Pittodire will have to be spent on the new stadium, with the rest of the necessary cash forming a burden of debt that may cripple the club for the foreseeable future?

I'm de-vast-ated. :rolleyes:



And neither they should. I would be furious if the sheep or any other club was given public money to help fund a new stadium, while every other club has to use their own cash, often to the detriment of the team.

Exactly. We've done it - why can't they? :agree:

Antifa Hibs
13-07-2010, 12:54 PM
People always say stuff like that. If they build a decent wee stadium with decent transport links then they will be ok, I suspect. People moaned about the demise of the most recent manifestation of the East terrace. Now the new one is lauded as if it were a ruddy architectural marvel and a thing of beauty.

There is a difference...

If Hibs moved to Straiton I can't imagine i'd be there everyweek. TBH I can't imagine the state of the club would be in. Leith, the pubs, cafes, bookies etc make a Saturday what it is just as much as the football itself. That would be the same as the sheep fans i'd imagine in their areas. They are also moving due financial mis-management, so losing 100+ years of history, nostalgia and the beach end yadda yadda because of the dafties in suits, alot of folk would give it up.

Suits me TBH, Aberdeen could do a Motherwell/Killie/Dundee Utd here, quarter full stadiums needing 8000 old firm fans to balance the books. I don't mind the dons, but their fans do my ****ing nut in!

Killiehibbie
13-07-2010, 01:04 PM
Suits me TBH, Aberdeen could do a Motherwell/Killie/Dundee Utd here, quarter full stadiums needing 8000 old firm fans to balance the books. I don't mind the dons, but their fans do my ****ing nut in!

The bigots don't take that many to games very often nowadays. Killie didn't get a 10,000 gate until the very last game of the season and I think one of their games against celtic was less than 7,000. Kick off times, tv and pricing has put a lot of them off.

--------
13-07-2010, 01:04 PM
There is a difference...

If Hibs moved to Straiton I can't imagine i'd be there everyweek. TBH I can't imagine the state of the club would be in. Leith, the pubs, cafes, bookies etc make a Saturday what it is just as much as the football itself. That would be the same as the sheep fans i'd imagine in their areas. They are also moving due financial mis-management, so losing 100+ years of history, nostalgia and the beach end yadda yadda because of the dafties in suits, alot of folk would give it up.

Suits me TBH, Aberdeen could do a Motherwell/Killie/Dundee Utd here, quarter full stadiums needing 8000 old firm fans to balance the books. I don't mind the dons, but their fans do my ****ing nut in!


:agree: Just need to look at Airdrie. The old ground was right in the town centre, with all that stuff close at hand.

The new ground's a couple of miles away, between a council house estate and a bunch of car dealerships - no pubs, no bookies, nothing around.

And as you say - because of a deal of mismanagement by the suits.

When I go to ER with my son, we have a ritual. I park the car, get the tickets, walk back to Leith Walk and we meet in the Harp & Castle. Watch the lunchtime Sky game, then head round to ER about 2.30. Settled in and comfy by ten to three. If we want to catch the headlines afterwards, we can go back to the pub, or catch them in the car heading back across town. That's what makes the day. Lose that, you lose an awful lot.

jgl07
13-07-2010, 01:10 PM
Oh dearie dearie me. :devil:

You mean that ALL the money they get from selling Pittodire will have to be spent on the new stadium, with the rest of the necessary cash forming a burden of debt that may cripple the club for the foreseeable future?

Exactly. We've done it - why can't they? :agree:
Aberdeen do not have the space to rebuild the stadium insitu so will have to move later if not sooner.

Aberdeen always used to be a well run club with little or no debts. That all changed when the new stand was built just as the club dropped from being a potential title contender to also rans. Crowds have dropped but the support seems unwilling to accept their place in the scheme of things.

They are in real trouble as I cannot see there is a hope in hell of the City Council funding them for a new stadium.

hughio
13-07-2010, 01:23 PM
Whats the alternative?

There are always alternatives.

Look what STF did at our Club.

The land sale would no doubt be to Stwart Milne homes PLC.
The price would be such as to service the existing debt AND provide for a healthy profit for Stewarty boy.

Anyone with the club's real interests at heart wouldn't put their profit before the iconic heart of AFC which is in the middle of the city not on a frozen plateau half way to Stonehaven.

Joe Baker II
13-07-2010, 01:27 PM
TBH folk from Aberdeen seem to be against just about anything that gets proposed up here.

The new Civic Square- Everyones against it
Trumps golf course- Everyones against it
Union Square shopping centre- There were protests against it until it was built

I live up here and the council want to put a recycling facility in the car park outside my flat. I had a neighbour banging on my door the other night asking me to sign a petition against it because it would deprive our car park, which sits half empty most of the time, of 3 whole parking spaces. I told her where to go.

Aberdeen are in a total mess financially, they almost make Hearts look well run. The selling of Pitoddrie and moving out of town to a part council funded facility is pretty much last chance saloon. It all stems to their delusions about how big a club they are, some of them really believe they are a well known big club around Europe. They built an absolutely ridiculous white elephant of a stand in the mid 1990s but gave no consideration to upgrading the rest of the ground. Now they have a huge stand which sits half empty week in, week out and the rest of the stadium is falling apart at the seams. They have no money to invest in the team, no training facilities of their own (although the sports village that they use is a world class facility) and no players of real high value to sell at the moment, unless you believe Mark McGhee that Fraser Fyvie is worth £10M. They went for a speculate to accumulate policy in the 90s, £1M for Paul Bernard anyone? and it backfired big time.

The move out of town is dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. If they stay at Pittodrie they lose a huge wedge of cash from the sale of the land and are left with a stadium unfit for purpose with a dwindling fan base and spiralling debts. If they move out of town they get help paying for a shiny new 25 000 seater stadium whilst partially reducing debts, unfortunately for them there already piss poor home support will dwindle away to about 7-8000 and they will lose huge ammounts of revenue this way.

Makes me grateful i'm a Hibs supporter.

This posts looks worryingly like a lift from Wallace Mercer's various statements 20 years ago, there is not that much wronfg with Pittodrie as a stadium as it is.

Antifa Hibs
13-07-2010, 01:30 PM
This posts looks worryingly like a lift from Wallace Mercer's various statements 20 years ago, there is not that much wronfg with Pittodrie as a stadium as it is.

Sure I read Aberdeen had to spend £500,000 this season to ensure it got a safety certificate, its crumbling to bits. A ******hole in other words :wink:

Joe Baker II
13-07-2010, 01:32 PM
The bigots don't take that many to games very often nowadays. Killie didn't get a 10,000 gate until the very last game of the season and I think one of their games against celtic was less than 7,000. Kick off times, tv and pricing has put a lot of them off.

Also they have put off home supporters too though to some extent they are connected, far less home fans outwith the diehard minority likely to be motivated to attend a Killie/OF game if expect 7-8,000 crowd while more would be up for it if the stadium likely to be at least close to full, obvious parallel was Rangers game at ER end of last season where propsect of smaller crowd/lack of atmosphere deterred a lot of Hibs fans so it can happen here too.

Difference is that if clubs changed their insane policies that you describe above regarding these games clubs like Killie could get back to something close to the attenndaces they enjoyed in the 1990s. But I do not see how Aberdeen moving to a characterless stadium will achieve anything other than the opposite.

Joe Baker II
13-07-2010, 01:34 PM
. People moaned about the demise of the most recent manifestation of the East terrace. Now the new one is lauded as if it were a ruddy architectural marvel and a thing of beauty.

I do not know who you speak too, but you are totally wrong if you think all Hibs fans are thinking like this about the new east stand.

Dashing Bob S
13-07-2010, 01:53 PM
Aberdeen do not have the space to rebuild the stadium insitu so will have to move later if not sooner.

Aberdeen always used to be a well run club with little or no debts. That all changed when the new stand was built just as the club dropped from being a potential title contender to also rans. Crowds have dropped but the support seems unwilling to accept their place in the scheme of things.

They are in real trouble as I cannot see there is a hope in hell of the City Council funding them for a new stadium.

Does Milne not own the considerable amountof land around the ground but wants to build housing on it?

Kaiser1962
13-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Does anyone know what Milne's position on all this is and where his heart lies? This is obviously key to the whole thing as Milne is the only man who can underwrite (Farmer-esque) the debts and the Bank will listen. Seems to me Aberdeen FC, and its future, are entirely in the hands of Wiggy and whatever he wants.



They have a real problem. A bank loan of £9.7m plus accrued interest is due for repayment on 10 March 2011. The plan was that this would be paid out of the proceeds of the sale of 'Todders and a move to a 'community' stadium - which is presumably what the OP refers to. Various parts of this plan seem to have fallen through and the whole thing seems to be well behind schedule, but that loan (up to about £12m with interest) will still have to be paid. It seems unlikely that the bank will extend the terms of the loan, so they could find themselves homeless if they can't arrange alternative finance.

The bank has security over the ground which is owned by a separate subsidiary company to the football club.

JE89
13-07-2010, 02:23 PM
Utterly fantastic news.

I've been up there for University and I still have Gothenburg and facts about their glorious period in the 1980's thrown at me, ironically from people born in 1990.

They still perceive Aberdeen to be a giant in Europe, as if people are wandering around Madrid still talking about facing the mighty Aberdeen FC. None of them accept they are now a bottom six SPL team with absolutely no funds and are completely and utterly *****.

:agree: "Third team in Scotland" chat is laughable.

hughio
13-07-2010, 03:32 PM
Does anyone know what Milne's position on all this is and where his heart lies? This is obviously key to the whole thing as Milne is the only man who can underwrite (Farmer-esque) the debts and the Bank will listen. Seems to me Aberdeen FC, and its future, are entirely in the hands of Wiggy and whatever he wants.

:agree:

Unless the fans do something imaginative and find a way of restructuring and remortgaging and paying him off.

BSEJVT
13-07-2010, 04:43 PM
:agree:

Unless the fans do something imaginative and find a way of restructuring and remortgaging and paying him off.

If an earlier poster who suggested that Pittodrie is owned by other than the Football Club is correct, then if they also have £12m FC debts they are stuffed.

IMO the transfer market is about ready to crash and burn at other than World Cup star levels, with prices going down the pan. So even their current "bronze" generation wont bail them out.

If thats the case they are totally dependant on Milne building and then leasing them a new Stadium.

I cant see what's in it for him to do so and I cant see the attraction to the Football Club as the rent would increase massively at any new stadium.

Unless there is a sweetner in the deal with some element of the debt being writen off so Milne gets his hands on the Pittodrie land without the massive publicy outcry anything resembling a forced sale would cause and some hefty concessions on building other stuff at the proposed new site.

I would also have thought that Milne would be struggling to raise the capital for that sort of deal from banks as they are completely adverse to builders these days.

Also the council are going to be having their grant cut and cutting jobs and there would be a revolt amongst local taxpayers if they funded it.

In the same way that the stars aligned to enable Hibs to recover from the terrible mess we were in a few years ago, they are now aligning against each and every one of our competitors.

Its brilliant!

The Mook
13-07-2010, 05:09 PM
Even if I cant remember the Fergie years I can still remember Aberdeen going out and buying Dutch internationals and buying players from the likes of Arsenal. Changed days to buying Rochdale reserves just now.

Having said all this whatever happens Aberdeen is too big a catchment area not to have a top SPL club. As dire as their current situation is theyll always be far bigger than the likes of Killie and Dunfermline as some have suggested

MSK
13-07-2010, 05:37 PM
Even if I cant remember the Fergie years I can still remember Aberdeen going out and buying Dutch internationals and buying players from the likes of Arsenal. Changed days to buying Rochdale reserves just now.

Having said all this whatever happens Aberdeen is too big a catchment area not to have a top SPL club. As dire as their current situation is theyll always be far bigger than the likes of Killie and Dunfermline as some have suggestedThey have signed Howard the keeper who was released by St Mirren ..not good enough for struggling saints but good enough for ..eh ..struggling Dons ...:greengrin

sahib
13-07-2010, 06:10 PM
I do not know who you speak too, but you are totally wrong if you think all Hibs fans are thinking like this about the new east stand.

Are saying you would like the East back as it was rather than the impressive new one?

Kaiser1962
13-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Thats why I asked about his desire T1. Milne undoubtedly has the personal wealth to make all Aberdeen's problems go away but is he prepared to do it. If, as others suggest, that it is the SM Group (as opposed to Milne personally) that are underwriting Aberdeen at the moment then they're in trouble. Like Murray and Romanov, I get the impression he(Milne) lets the fans think it's him personally that is bankrolling the club when in fact they are using their companies money whereas Farmer, Thompson (snr) and Boyle used their personal wealth to gguarantee the future of their club and both Thompson and Boyle took huge hits. It would appear that, from this select group of high achieving individuals, only one has done the whole thing properly.




If an earlier poster who suggested that Pittodrie is owned by other than the Football Club is correct, then if they also have £12m FC debts they are stuffed.

IMO the transfer market is about ready to crash and burn at other than World Cup star levels, with prices going down the pan. So even their current "bronze" generation wont bail them out.

If thats the case they are totally dependant on Milne building and then leasing them a new Stadium.

I cant see what's in it for him to do so and I cant see the attraction to the Football Club as the rent would increase massively at any new stadium.

Unless there is a sweetner in the deal with some element of the debt being writen off so Milne gets his hands on the Pittodrie land without the massive publicy outcry anything resembling a forced sale would cause and some hefty concessions on building other stuff at the proposed new site.

I would also have thought that Milne would be struggling to raise the capital for that sort of deal from banks as they are completely adverse to builders these days.

Also the council are going to be having their grant cut and cutting jobs and there would be a revolt amongst local taxpayers if they funded it.

In the same way that the stars aligned to enable Hibs to recover from the terrible mess we were in a few years ago, they are now aligning against each and every one of our competitors.

Its brilliant!

Caversham Green
13-07-2010, 06:17 PM
If an earlier poster who suggested that Pittodrie is owned by other than the Football Club is correct, then if they also have £12m FC debts they are stuffed.


The stadium is owned by Talltray Ltd which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the football club, but Talltray also owe the £12m to the bank. That means that if Talltray default on repayment of the loan they lose Pittodrie, but the club is protected from any further loss. They would still be homeless though, and a ground share with ICT is not exactly enticing.

It's interesting that they don't appear to have made any provisions for losing the ground during the coming season - didn't it emerge during the Gretna fiasco that a club can't change their home ground in the middle of a season?

That suggests either that they are confident that the loan repayment can be funded or that they have a contingency plan in place to retain occupation of Pittodrie at least until May.

BSEJVT
13-07-2010, 06:25 PM
Thats why I asked about his desire T1. Milne undoubtedly has the personal wealth to make all Aberdeen's problems go away but is he prepared to do it. If, as others suggest, that it is the SM Group (as opposed to Milne personally) that are underwriting Aberdeen at the moment then they're in trouble. Like Murray and Romanov, I get the impression he(Milne) lets the fans think it's him personally that is bankrolling the club when in fact they are using their companies money whereas Farmer, Thompson (snr) and Boyle used their personal wealth to gguarantee the future of their club and both Thompson and Boyle took huge hits. It would appear that, from this select group of high achieving individuals, only one has done the whole thing properly.

Kaiser,

I am not sure he would have the personal wealth any more.

I would think he is betwen a rock and a hard place compared to past glories.

Devalued unsaleable land bank, business in hock to the armpits, remuneration hammered by bankers who will be running the business.

I would guess he will have to pump in much of his remaining personal wealth to re-energise the building company and rebuild both his personal wealth and company.

That will take a long time as I would guess Banks would have zero appetitie for joint ventures as they had in the past, so you need to fund all your own developments.

IMO this is what is screwing the huns.

Murray is being squeezed from all angles as every facet of his business empire is underperforming compared to the past, and has finally said enough is enough before he is personally ruined.

I would love to know how much his adventure with the Huns has cost him personally.

I would start the bidding at £200m minimum and wouldnt be surprised if it was in excess of £500m

Kaiser1962
14-07-2010, 07:29 AM
The Sunday Times rich list had Milne worth around £300m. While I realise that this is by no means "cash at hand" I would imagine his personal accounts are not in the red.

On saying that however the same list has Murray worth £450m and as I said previously its about what they, as individuals as opposed to corporate entities, are prepared to do for their club.

The Motherwell fans who slate John Boyle need to take a shake to themselves because they survived because of the personal whack in the nuts he took. (they would argue that he put them there in the first place!) It would appear that Murray (or Milne) are not prepared to expose themselves to the same risk.

Anycase when I look around other clubs it only makes me even more appreciative of the job Farmer and Petrie have done at Hibs, and the risks (particularly Farmer) has taken.


Kaiser,

I am not sure he would have the personal wealth any more.

I would think he is betwen a rock and a hard place compared to past glories.

Devalued unsaleable land bank, business in hock to the armpits, remuneration hammered by bankers who will be running the business.

I would guess he will have to pump in much of his remaining personal wealth to re-energise the building company and rebuild both his personal wealth and company.

That will take a long time as I would guess Banks would have zero appetitie for joint ventures as they had in the past, so you need to fund all your own developments.

IMO this is what is screwing the huns.

Murray is being squeezed from all angles as every facet of his business empire is underperforming compared to the past, and has finally said enough is enough before he is personally ruined.

I would love to know how much his adventure with the Huns has cost him personally.

I would start the bidding at £200m minimum and wouldnt be surprised if it was in excess of £500m

BSEJVT
14-07-2010, 07:51 AM
The Sunday Times rich list had Milne worth around £300m. While I realise that this is by no means "cash at hand" I would imagine his personal accounts are not in the red.

On saying that however the same list has Murray worth £450m and as I said previously its about what they, as individuals as opposed to corporate entities, are prepared to do for their club.

The Motherwell fans who slate John Boyle need to take a shake to themselves because they survived because of the personal whack in the nuts he took. (they would argue that he put them there in the first place!) It would appear that Murray (or Milne) are not prepared to expose themselves to the same risk.

Anycase when I look around other clubs it only makes me even more appreciative of the job Farmer and Petrie have done at Hibs, and the risks (particularly Farmer) has taken.

Amen to that.

Some might argue that the extent of STF's risk was in guaranteeing the facilities which were secured by mortgages over the land and stadium and his worst financial exposure was in picking up any shortfall.

In strict legalese that's probably true, but if he didnt realise it at the start, he did pretty soon thereafter that such a situation would be ruinous for his personal reputation, which IMO he values over all else.

Since then he has ridden the tigers back that is Hibs and ridden it very well.

His personal financial exposure to Hibs is now nil as the assets grossly outweigh the liabilities.

My view is that he will see the job through until we are debt free and all the infrastructure projects completed. Its what happens then that's interesting.

I have long thought that he will hand over the club to a supporters trust with a share issue to pay off RP who has no massive personal wealth and deserves the cash anyway.

Doing that will guarantee him a place in Leith, Catholic, Edinburgh and Hibs folklore that IMO will far outweigh any cash he would get from the sale.

That way he can dismount from the tigers back safely and with reputation intact and enhanced.

Extreme wishful thinking, probably.

GGTTH

Dr Jimmy
14-07-2010, 08:15 AM
Does anyone know what Milne's position on all this is and where his heart lies? This is obviously key to the whole thing as Milne is the only man who can underwrite (Farmer-esque) the debts and the Bank will listen. Seems to me Aberdeen FC, and its future, are entirely in the hands of Wiggy and whatever he wants.

LoL....that was a quality piece of carpet and is sadly missed.

Joe Baker II
14-07-2010, 03:41 PM
Are saying you would like the East back as it was rather than the impressive new one?

Not convinced about need for new stand, looks pretty soulless and sadly typical of modern stadia anytime I see it.

Aubenas
14-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Not convinced about need for new stand, looks pretty soulless and sadly typical of modern stadia anytime I see it.

The point is the NEED for a new stand is health and safety related, not a suggestion of 20K gates anytime soon. In just the same way as a completed stadium with up to date facilities reflects well on Hibs as a club - to attract players, investors and fans, so playing in 3 sided ground with a stand roped off would have the other and opposite effect. Naturally a new build stand is modern, but it's also safer and gives more fans a better view, which is, after all, the point of a stadium. As for soulless - well that's up to the support.

I loved the old tall terracing, one of the most awesome sights in football when full, but times change. The last east stand was a slum from the minute it was constructed, cheaply, and in the sadly limited and wee club vision that ran Hibs at that time.

We are a leading club and our fans and players deserve to play in the best stadium possible and that's what we now have.

Having just completed an emotional tour of Fenway Park in Boston, the oldest baseball ground in existence, I am anything but a modernist. I love the romance of old stadia, but what's happened at E R over the past 15 years or so was the only way forward for Hibs, given criminal neglect of the ground over the previous 40 years or so.

Spike Mandela
14-07-2010, 05:03 PM
Whatever the merits or need for a new stand and a training centre the fact remains that Hibs' investment in this rather than the playing staff ensures STF and RP a very healthy profit when they decide to sell.

People may say so what but this motive can't be ignored when discussing Hibs' current signing and investment strategy.

Kaiser1962
14-07-2010, 05:09 PM
Whatever the merits or need for a new stand and a training centre the fact remains that Hibs' investment in this rather than the playing staff ensures STF and RP a very healthy profit when they decide to sell.

People may say so what but this motive can't be ignored when discussing Hibs' current signing and investment strategy.

So its only being built to make money for RP and STF?

Spike Mandela
14-07-2010, 05:34 PM
So its only being built to make money for RP and STF?

Not saying that but I'm sure it influenced their investment decisions. Never said it was good or bad, just a fact that has to be considered.

Cabbage East
14-07-2010, 05:44 PM
Not convinced about need for new stand, looks pretty soulless and sadly typical of modern stadia anytime I see it.


Everyone on here is surely wise to this boy now. He's as much of a Hibby as Princess Diana was.

Caversham Green
14-07-2010, 07:25 PM
Whatever the merits or need for a new stand and a training centre the fact remains that Hibs' investment in this rather than the playing staff ensures STF and RP a very healthy profit when they decide to sell.

People may say so what but this motive can't be ignored when discussing Hibs' current signing and investment strategy.

Can't say I agree with that. Since they've paid cash to build the stand the net asset value of the club will not have changed much - cash out buildings in. There's no market for 20,000 seat stadia in Edinburgh, so the resale value of ER lies in the land rather than the buildings. That stays the same whether there's a brand new stand or a pink bouncy castle on it.

The value of the club as a going concern lies in the potential for future progress and that has more to do with the playing staff than the buildings too. The increased capacity is only of value if it can be used and there's nothing to suggest it can be as things stand. You'd have to be barking mad to buy an SPL club as an investment in any case so it will always be a buyer's market.

East Mains will have added value to the club as it is seperable - it can be sold without compromising the club's core operations - but it's debatable whether that added value is equal to the amount that was paid to build it unless planning permission can be obtained for other development.

BSEJVT
14-07-2010, 07:38 PM
Can't say I agree with that. Since they've paid cash to build the stand the net asset value of the club will not have changed much - cash out buildings in. There's no market for 20,000 seat stadia in Edinburgh, so the resale value of ER lies in the land rather than the buildings. That stays the same whether there's a brand new stand or a pink bouncy castle on it.

The value of the club as a going concern lies in the potential for future progress and that has more to do with the playing staff than the buildings too. The increased capacity is only of value if it can be used and there's nothing to suggest it can be as things stand. You'd have to be barking mad to buy an SPL club as an investment in any case so it will always be a buyer's market.

East Mains will have added value to the club as it is seperable - it can be sold without compromising the club's core operations - but it's debatable whether that added value is equal to the amount that was paid to build it unless planning permission can be obtained for other development.

:top marks

But that wont stop with pre-conceived ideas about the situation bitching about it till the cows come home.

Spike Mandela
14-07-2010, 07:46 PM
Can't say I agree with that. Since they've paid cash to build the stand the net asset value of the club will not have changed much - cash out buildings in. There's no market for 20,000 seat stadia in Edinburgh, so the resale value of ER lies in the land rather than the buildings. That stays the same whether there's a brand new stand or a pink bouncy castle on it.

The value of the club as a going concern lies in the potential for future progress and that has more to do with the playing staff than the buildings too. The increased capacity is only of value if it can be used and there's nothing to suggest it can be as things stand. You'd have to be barking mad to buy an SPL club as an investment in any case so it will always be a buyer's market.

East Mains will have added value to the club as it is seperable - it can be sold without compromising the club's core operations - but it's debatable whether that added value is equal to the amount that was paid to build it unless planning permission can be obtained for other development.

Interesting insight Cav but surely in the event of selling to a new owner STF would expect a higher price because of the new stands rather than the ramshackle stands previously in place rather than just the price of the land.

I know a football club is not a wise investment these days but for one reason or another it doesn't discourage everyone.

Spike Mandela
14-07-2010, 07:51 PM
:top marks

But that wont stop with pre-conceived ideas about the situation bitching about it till the cows come home.

Who is bitching:confused: Businessman invests in hope to make profit Shock Horror!!

Caversham Green
14-07-2010, 08:13 PM
Interesting insight Cav but surely in the event of selling to a new owner STF would expect a higher price because of the new stands rather than the ramshackle stands previously in place rather than just the price of the land.

I know a football club is not a wise investment these days but for one reason or another it doesn't discourage everyone.

It certainly makes the club more attractive to a potential buyer - i.e. easier to sell but whether it would add a significant amount to the buying price is debatable. Looking at it as an investment you're buying asset value plus future income, and there's nothing to show that the stand will increase either at the moment.

It does make the club more "complete" as part of an ongoing development, but it's only a part of a greater whole.

lapsedhibee
14-07-2010, 08:49 PM
the resale value of ER lies in the land rather than the buildings. That stays the same whether there's a brand new stand or a pink bouncy castle on it.

Value perhaps more with the pink bouncy castle, as no demolition costs involved in clearing the land for other use?

Kaiser1962
14-07-2010, 09:31 PM
Who is bitching:confused: Businessman invests in hope to make profit Shock Horror!!

Except its unlikely Farmer is looking at Hibs as a money making venture. Sure his reputations was on the line when the object of the exercise was to make Hibs a self financing organisation. He has done that when some of his illustrious contemparies have failed, sometimes spectacularly. The fact he, initially at least, had little or no interest in football probably helped him, and appointing Petrie appears to have been a very astute decision. Remember we have come back from a £20m deficit when, if all they were interested in was making cash, they could have wound it up, dumped the debt and started again £20m to the good. As a going concern, even now, Hibs make little or no money annually and the value is in the land the stadium occupies. The entire cost of building the stadium would be unlikely to be recouped in any sale and the stadium itself has practically no resale value as it stands. As an investment opportunity it sucks.

Removed
14-07-2010, 10:35 PM
Except its unlikely Farmer is looking at Hibs as a money making venture. Sure his reputations was on the line when the object of the exercise was to make Hibs a self financing organisation. He has done that when some of his illustrious contemparies have failed, sometimes spectacularly. The fact he, initially at least, had little or no interest in football probably helped him, and appointing Petrie appears to have been a very astute decision. Remember we have come back from a £20m deficit when, if all they were interested in was making cash, they could have wound it up, dumped the debt and started again £20m to the good. As a going concern, even now, Hibs make little or no money annually and the value is in the land the stadium occupies. The entire cost of building the stadium would be unlikely to be recouped in any sale and the stadium itself has practically no resale value as it stands. As an investment opportunity it sucks.

:agree:

And anyone who was at the HoH anniversary gig would have heard from STF why he did what he did. He saved the club for the community, for us the fans and for the generations to follow.

Running a football club has never been easy but after Bosman, spiralling wages and the latest economic conditions with everything else in between it must be even harder.

Sir Tom Farmer won't demand our respect but in my book he deserves it way more than any of us can imagine. As far as I see it without him there would be no Hibs and for that I will be grateful for as long as I live and I will ensure my boys understand so they can pass it on to their kids.

hiblander
15-07-2010, 12:27 AM
No they don't. The council helped fund the initial planning stages then announced that was the extent of their commitment. There will be no more public money involved. Stewart Milne recently admitted there isn't actually any funding in place for this move. How terribly, terribly sad.:greengrin

I got a stadium tour of Pittodrie when i was at University in Glasgow in 2001, i walked onto the halloed Pittodrie turf through the tunnel no less....they proposed a stadium move back then...they still go on about it now...I remember the tunnel backed onto the boot room and the after match function room reminded me of a 70's kitchen, the changing rooms was like something out of your schoolboy P.E. class with white block walls and ancient pegs for your clothes !! No wonder they keep the players happy with talk of a new stadium...they'd be better of replacing the Bombed Main Stand its a dive !!!

:wink:

BSEJVT
15-07-2010, 09:15 AM
Who is bitching:confused: Businessman invests in hope to make profit Shock Horror!!

Hibs never was and never will be an investment.

It makes no profit unless there are big player sales, which only pay off prevous losses.

I would guess Hibs to have lost between £1m & £2m last year on a trading basis.

The value is in the land which STF owned anyway and could have sold undeveloped.

Developing the stadium makes it less saleable for re-development.

It also makes it more expensive for potential purchasers to buy the club as a football club, rather than just asset strip the land. So STF is stuck with it.

Despite numerous rumours thereis no-one out there trying to buy Hibs, there is no return in it.

Buying a football club is a recipe for either treading the fine balancing line hibs do these days or listening to folk bitching about why dont you invest more of your personal wealth to keep the support happy

If you dont invest crowds fall as "we deserve better" if you do you are quickly personally skint.

It pisses me off massively that STF doesnt get the credit he deserves and folk question his motives.

We will see in time what those motives are.

Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt in the interim?

NGH
15-07-2010, 10:52 AM
As with many things in life there are a lot of people who may only realise the contribution the STF has made to Hibs when he's gone. When you look around at the results some of the alternative approaches that have been taken at other clubs a grateful prayer is is order.

freddie m
15-07-2010, 02:15 PM
Can't say I agree with that. Since they've paid cash to build the stand the net asset value of the club will not have changed much - cash out buildings in. There's no market for 20,000 seat stadia in Edinburgh, so the resale value of ER lies in the land rather than the buildings. That stays the same whether there's a brand new stand or a pink bouncy castle on it.

The value of the club as a going concern lies in the potential for future progress and that has more to do with the playing staff than the buildings too. The increased capacity is only of value if it can be used and there's nothing to suggest it can be as things stand. You'd have to be barking mad to buy an SPL club as an investment in any case so it will always be a buyer's market.

East Mains will have added value to the club as it is seperable - it can be sold without compromising the club's core operations - but it's debatable whether that added value is equal to the amount that was paid to build it unless planning permission can be obtained for other development.:wink:

Agree with the stadium valuation, however, the overall value of Hibs has increased considerably when you take into account the land available at East Mains with possible hotel and Golf course developments. That said if STF was really at Hibs for the money, one would assume after the sale of players like Brown, Thomson etc, that reduced the debt to about £4 million at a time when the country still in a vibrant economic state. Then this would have been the ideal time to offload Hibs and to make a very healthy profit for STF & RP, that they didn’t suggests to me that STF & RP will continue to run Hibs the same way (correct way) for a long time yet.
Glory glory


:flag::flag::flag:

lEXO
15-07-2010, 02:17 PM
The point is the NEED for a new stand is health and safety related, not a suggestion of 20K gates anytime soon. In just the same way as a completed stadium with up to date facilities reflects well on Hibs as a club - to attract players, investors and fans, so playing in 3 sided ground with a stand roped off would have the other and opposite effect. Naturally a new build stand is modern, but it's also safer and gives more fans a better view, which is, after all, the point of a stadium. As for soulless - well that's up to the support.

I loved the old tall terracing, one of the most awesome sights in football when full, but times change. The last east stand was a slum from the minute it was constructed, cheaply, and in the sadly limited and wee club vision that ran Hibs at that time.

We are a leading club and our fans and players deserve to play in the best stadium possible and that's what we now have.

Having just completed an emotional tour of Fenway Park in Boston, the oldest baseball ground in existence, I am anything but a modernist. I love the romance of old stadia, but what's happened at E R over the past 15 years or so was the only way forward for Hibs, given criminal neglect of the ground over the previous 40 years or so.


As with many things in life there are a lot of people who may only realise the contribution the STF has made to Hibs when he's gone. When you look around at the results some of the alternative approaches that have been taken at other clubs a grateful prayer is is order.

Amen to both posts.Our stadium will be complete by September,and yes we did need to build the East.Planning permission was running out,the cost of maintaining the East and any future money can hopefully be spent on the team.It,s 20 years since STF saved Hibs, and yes there has been setbacks in that time, but look around at some other clubs and ask yourself "Would i rather have what we have?" I certainly do.

Andy74
15-07-2010, 04:49 PM
Whatever the merits or need for a new stand and a training centre the fact remains that Hibs' investment in this rather than the playing staff ensures STF and RP a very healthy profit when they decide to sell.

People may say so what but this motive can't be ignored when discussing Hibs' current signing and investment strategy.

I can't believe people still buy this nonsense!

JohnScott
15-07-2010, 05:17 PM
Some of you who seem to be revelling in the demise of Aberdeen need to get a grip. It's one thing to go on about how great easter road looks but taking the piss out of a club like them is a bit rich coming from us.

The minute we fill our shiny new ground for a home game with Aberdeen or Dundee United (in case you've forgotten thats 20500 punters) then we can take the piss. Till then be grateful for our youth players who helped pay for it.

Some of you :bitchy:

Kaiser1962
15-07-2010, 05:30 PM
Absolutely not John. I take no pleasure whatsoever in this and I dont think it's the demise of AFC. As I said previously it depends on the wishes and attitude of a certain Stewart Milne whose stewardship of the club is reaching its decision day. If he has AFC truly at heart he can guide them through this and I for one hope he does. Rather than gloating over their misfortunes I was merely suggesting how fortunate we are and there for the grace of God go I, that sort of thing. We appear to be, along with Celtic and Hamilton, run quite professionally.



Some of you who seem to be revelling in the demise of Aberdeen need to get a grip. It's one thing to go on about how great easter road looks but taking the piss out of a club like them is a bit rich coming from us.

The minute we fill our shiny new ground for a home game with Aberdeen or Dundee United (in case you've forgotten thats 20500 punters) then we can take the piss. Till then be grateful for our youth players who helped pay for it.

Some of you :bitchy:

Spike Mandela
15-07-2010, 07:26 PM
I can't believe people still buy this nonsense!

I can't believe you still toe the party line on every single issue or topic discussed on this board:confused:

I mean do you have an independant thought on things other than those that come from Hibs press office? Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong (or nonsense) just as long as it's your opinion.

Have you ever taken issue with anything from ERHQ or do you work at ER?

NGH
15-07-2010, 10:47 PM
I can't believe you still toe the party line on every single issue or topic discussed on this board:confused:

I mean do you have an independant thought on things other than those that come from Hibs press office? Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong (or nonsense) just as long as it's your opinion.

Have you ever taken issue with anything from ERHQ or do you work at ER?

If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.
Nelson Mandela

Hard to believe you guys are related.

The Harp
15-07-2010, 10:56 PM
I certainly wouldn't like to think of Pittodrie being only a memory. From a selfish point of view, it was the venue where I first saw a Hibs captain (John Fraser) holding silverware aloft, even if it was only the Summer Cup!
Also have wonderful memories of so many other trips to the city to watch the Hibs mainly in the 60's & early seventies, and going to the Beach ballroom, the funfair and a variety of pubs while we were there.
Happy days!

Spike Mandela
15-07-2010, 10:57 PM
If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner.
Nelson Mandela

Hard to believe you guys are related.

He's a distant cousin, never really got on with that side of the family:wink::greengrin

Kaiser1962
16-07-2010, 07:12 AM
Not toeing he party line at all Spike. I have listened to these stories about Farmer and Petrie lining their own pockets for about 20 years now. I have no inside info other than what I see and hear but, after all this time, I see no evidence that this is the case. On the contrary they have taken steps in Hibs interest when it would have been more prudent to do otherwise, Straiton springs to mind immediately. As a couple of alledged fly by night carpetbaggers they've hung about for a while, and taken quite a bit of stick in the process. I think Petrie and Farmer have been worth every penny they have earned, or will earn, and it would be difficult to argue otherwise.

This is an independent conclusion based on the evidence in front of me.


I can't believe you still toe the party line on every single issue or topic discussed on this board:confused:

I mean do you have an independant thought on things other than those that come from Hibs press office? Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong (or nonsense) just as long as it's your opinion.

Have you ever taken issue with anything from ERHQ or do you work at ER?

mc5-the-don
16-07-2010, 11:47 AM
Good to see you've almost got your stadium finished, I'll look forward to visiting it next season.

We're 5 years behind you guys, but the latest plans / planning submission for our new stadium has just been released. All going well, we'll be in our new home in 3 years time. A fully-enclosed 21,000 seater, with the option to go up to 30,000 for large games/events (I think by filling in the corners with seats).

Fans have reservations about moving from our traditional home/location, about transport links to the new stadium in the southern edge of the city, about what effect moving will have on our (currently dwindling) attendances and about how the hell we are going to pay for this (even with selling off the land we currently have).

However, the finished article should end up being be the best stadium outside the old firm - although you may disagree......

http://www.afc.co.uk/staticFiles/71/52/0,,10284~152177,00.pdf

What do you guys think?

MC5

MSK
16-07-2010, 11:53 AM
Good to see you've almost got your stadium finished, I'll look forward to visiting it next season.

We're 5 years behind you guys, but the latest plans / planning submission for our new stadium has just been released. All going well, we'll be in our new home in 3 years time. A fully-enclosed 21,000 seater, with the option to go up to 30,000 for large games/events (I think by filling in the corners with seats).

Fans have reservations about moving from our traditional home/location, about transport links to the new stadium in the southern edge of the city, about what effect moving will have on our (currently dwindling) attendances and about how the hell we are going to pay for this (even with selling off the land we currently have).

However, the finished article should end up being be the best stadium outside the old firm - although you may disagree......

http://www.afc.co.uk/staticFiles/71/52/0,,10284~152177,00.pdf

What do you guys think?

MC5Heres what a few of us think mate :wink:..http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?187314-Aberdeen-to-move-out-the-city

Mikeystewart
16-07-2010, 11:54 AM
looks quite smart. the possible expansion sounds good too. I dont think easter road can get any bigger than it will be after the east not to sure about the corners.

Gatecrasher
16-07-2010, 11:55 AM
looks nice, :agree: (if it gets built :wink:)

duncs
16-07-2010, 11:57 AM
Looking at the plans and knowing that are quite well, is that getting out of that stadium is going to be a nightmare!

bawheid
16-07-2010, 11:57 AM
Good to see you've almost got your stadium finished, I'll look forward to visiting it next season.

We're 5 years behind you guys, but the latest plans / planning submission for our new stadium has just been released. All going well, we'll be in our new home in 3 years time. A fully-enclosed 21,000 seater, with the option to go up to 30,000 for large games/events (I think by filling in the corners with seats).

Fans have reservations about moving from our traditional home/location, about transport links to the new stadium in the southern edge of the city, about what effect moving will have on our (currently dwindling) attendances and about how the hell we are going to pay for this (even with selling off the land we currently have).

However, the finished article should end up being be the best stadium outside the old firm - although you may disagree......

http://www.afc.co.uk/staticFiles/71/52/0,,10284~152177,00.pdf

What do you guys think?

MC5

If it happens, (massive IF due to the "how do we pay for it" bit), it'll be a soul-less box in the middle of nowhere with no history, aura, presence or anything else that makes a football stadium more than bricks and mortar.

Therefore IMO, it won't be the best stadium outside the OF. Looks like a slightly bigger version of Almondvale!

DC_Hibs
16-07-2010, 11:59 AM
Thats the way forward for Aberdeen.....if it happens.

Highlights how well Hibs have done to be in a position to fully renovate our existing stadium thus staying where we belong.

The Silver Fox
16-07-2010, 12:06 PM
The plans look fantastic, I never realised that the idea was to build south of the city. I used to stay in Portlethen about 17 years ago and I know exactly where this would be built. I would not think that it is too out of town and with the new bypass in place this might just happen at the right time. The present stadium although near the city centre has poor access particularly for travelling support.

Good luck with the new build.

jgl07
16-07-2010, 12:08 PM
The design looks good although I do have some misgivings about the location.

I hope it comes off but there is the nagging doubt about where the cash will come from.

We all recall Hearts spending £1 million plus on a design and planning application for a £51 million main stand. That has not happened and never will.

MyJo
16-07-2010, 12:11 PM
It looked good until i got to the artist impressions of the outside of the stadium..........its absolutely boufin :bitchy:

Peevemor
16-07-2010, 12:14 PM
About 1,000 parking places for a 20,000+ capacity, out of town stadium? :cool2:

bawheid
16-07-2010, 12:16 PM
About 1,000 parking places for a 20,000+ capacity, out of town stadium? :cool2:

Planning says no.

mc5-the-don
16-07-2010, 12:40 PM
It looked good until i got to the artist impressions of the outside of the stadium..........its absolutely boufin :bitchy:

Hard to say going by the artist impression.....think it will be a full enclosed 'bowl' which will be great for creating and retaining an atmosphere (unlike Pittodrie) and it looks as if the top of the stadium will glow at night / on match days, a bit like a mini Allianz Arena. I like the sound of that.

Most new stadiums see an initial boost in attendances. All the people who say they won't go, will still go if there is something decent on show on the park. Hopefully some of the (many) uber-rich dons fans will then see it as a club worth investing in. Debts will (hopefully) be wiped out and we will have more money to invest in the team, attracting more fans in the process.

If it happens, it will be a relatively unique thing in Scottish football - a completely new purpose built stadium. I'm sure away fans would much rather come to a stadium like this than the current horrible/cold/exposed section in the South Stand they currently get. Aberdeen FC have a massive fan base, they just don't give them a good enough excuse to go along to the games on a regular basis. Hopefuly a once great club can be re-born....

Peevemor
16-07-2010, 12:49 PM
If it happens, it will be a relatively unique thing in Scottish football - a completely new purpose built stadium.

So Aberdeen will become as "relatively unique" as St Johnstone, Falkirk, Airdrie, St Mirren, Hamiltion Accies, East Fife, Livingston, Clyde and Stirling Albion?

mc5-the-don
16-07-2010, 12:54 PM
So Aberdeen will become as "relatively unique" as St Johnstone, Falkirk, Airdrie, St Mirren, Hamiltion Accies, East Fife, Livingston, Clyde and Stirling Albion?

Sorry, I should have inserted the word "large". Our new stadium will be more than double the size, of any of the stadiums you mention, with the option of being three times as big. Filling it might be another thing, but we could get 30,000 in for Europa League games. That's the equivilant to Tynecastle and Tannadice combined.

jgl07
16-07-2010, 12:55 PM
So Aberdeen will become as "relatively unique" as St Johnstone, Falkirk, Airdrie, St Mirren, Hamiltion Accies, East Fife, Livingston, Clyde and Stirling Albion?
Not to mention Dumbarton.

RyeSloan
16-07-2010, 12:56 PM
Hard to say going by the artist impression.....think it will be a full enclosed 'bowl' which will be great for creating and retaining an atmosphere (unlike Pittodrie) and it looks as if the top of the stadium will glow at night / on match days, a bit like a mini Allianz Arena. I like the sound of that.

Most new stadiums see an initial boost in attendances. All the people who say they won't go, will still go if there is something decent on show on the park. Hopefully some of the (many) uber-rich dons fans will then see it as a club worth investing in. Debts will (hopefully) be wiped out and we will have more money to invest in the team, attracting more fans in the process.

If it happens, it will be a relatively unique thing in Scottish football - a completely new purpose built stadium. I'm sure away fans would much rather come to a stadium like this than the current horrible/cold/exposed section in the South Stand they currently get. Aberdeen FC have a massive fan base, they just don't give them a good enough excuse to go along to the games on a regular basis. Hopefuly a once great club can be re-born....

All sounds good but the fancy drawings and the consultation are the easy bit. The hard but it the actual planning and then the even harder bit is the finance. What are the outline numbers for financing this....I find it hard to believe that the value of the land at pittodrie will clear your debts, pay for the new land and pay for a complete new build 20k seater stadium, is this really what is being expected?

matty_f
16-07-2010, 01:09 PM
Sorry, I should have inserted the word "large". Our new stadium will be more than double the size, of any of the stadiums you mention, with the option of being three times as big. Filling it might be another thing, but we could get 30,000 in for Europa League games. That's the equivilant to Tynecastle and Tannadice combined.

Do they dish out Europa places to the bottom 6 teams?:confused:

marinello59
16-07-2010, 01:22 PM
Sorry, I should have inserted the word "large". Our new stadium will be more than double the size, of any of the stadiums you mention, with the option of being three times as big. Filling it might be another thing, but we could get 30,000 in for Europa League games. That's the equivilant to Tynecastle and Tannadice combined.

It's good to see that Aberdeen fans have finally lost all delusions of grandeur.:rolleyes:

mc5-the-don
16-07-2010, 01:37 PM
All sounds good but the fancy drawings and the consultation are the easy bit. The hard but it the actual planning and then the even harder bit is the finance. What are the outline numbers for financing this....I find it hard to believe that the value of the land at pittodrie will clear your debts, pay for the new land and pay for a complete new build 20k seater stadium, is this really what is being expected?

The sale of Pittodrie and the surrounding land will clear our debt and pay for part of the new stadium, but there is no way it will pay for it all. We've yet to be given a satisfactory explanation as to where the remaining money will come from. The club must be confident of getting it though, otherwise it wouldn't be full steam ahead with the stadium plans. Who knows, Milne might even dip into his personal wealth in order to leave the stadium as his legacy, but I'm not holding my breath.....