Raoul

[Chuckie]

Police hating gunman on the run.

:cool2:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7876187/Raoul-Moat-gunman-believed-to-be-hiding-in-woodland.html

[Ed De Gramo]

Police hating gunman on the run.

:cool2:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7876187/Raoul-Moat-gunman-believed-to-be-hiding-in-woodland.html

The old 'death penalty' debate could make an appearance again....all the proofs there....:cool2:

[New Corrie]

The old 'death penalty' debate could make an appearance again....all the proofs there....:cool2:


I wouldn't have thought so Gramo, it would just result in all the resident social workers and Communists defending his civil liberties and blaming the Police and his "chaotic lifestyle". Nice to see the early release programme is working so well.

[Beefster]

The police have made a proper mess of this. The one saving grace is that the lunatic hasn't decided to drive about shooting anyone he sees.

[GlesgaeHibby]

The old 'death penalty' debate could make an appearance again....all the proofs there....:cool2:

Why should it? This guy is an absolute nutter and is most likely to end up killed by the police, because if he opens fire on them again they will take him out. He isn't likely to come without a fight.

If on the very very small chance he gives himself up, he will spend a long time in prison, and rightly so.

This is all if he hasn't already killed himself.

[khib70]

I wouldn't have thought so Gramo, it would just result in all the resident social workers and Communists defending his civil liberties and blaming the Police and his "chaotic lifestyle". Nice to see the early release programme is working so well.
And welcome aboard, the editor of the "Daily Mail" - but don't you have your own website?

As someone who will never be accused of being either a social worker, or a communist, I find your enthusiasm for the death penalty in this case predictable, but a bit dumb. What we have here is a pumped up, woman-beating psycopath with Rambo fantasies. He is probably the least likely person on the planet to have been deterred by the prospect of the death penalty, indeed it would probably have encouraged him.

I'm not defending this ****bag for one secon. I believe he's made a choice about his actions and must now take responsibility for them. But if it's wrong for him to set himself up as the arbiter of life and death, it's more wrong for the state to do so.

[New Corrie]

And welcome aboard, the editor of the "Daily Mail" - but don't you have your own website?

As someone who will never be accused of being either a social worker, or a communist, I find your enthusiasm for the death penalty in this case predictable, but a bit dumb. What we have here is a pumped up, woman-beating psycopath with Rambo fantasies. He is probably the least likely person on the planet to have been deterred by the prospect of the death penalty, indeed it would probably have encouraged him.

I'm not defending this ****bag for one secon. I believe he's made a choice about his actions and must now take responsibility for them. But if it's wrong for him to set himself up as the arbiter of life and death, it's more wrong for the state to do so.

The predictable "Daily Mail" jibe, nearly as predictable as the "hoofball pub team" bollocks on the main forum. I don't give a pheck about the death penalty, it's not as if it's ever coming back, I mean why have it when you can squander millions keeping these people. I just pointed out how well the early release programme was working and suggesting that we will get some long winded "pseuds corner" post about civil liberties and how it's all the fault of these nasty fascist Police officers, combined with him being misunderstood and having (the latest "in" phrase of the left)....a chaotic lifestyle!.

[heretoday]

"Social workers and communists"

I thought we'd gone beyond that sort of nonsense!

[Peevemor]

"Social workers and communists"

I thought we'd gone beyond that sort of nonsense!

Muesli eaters. :tee hee:

[lyonhibs]

Muesli eaters. :tee hee:

****ing sandal wearers.

Probably have a copy of Chairman Mao's little red book to read before bed as well.

I hope none move into my neighbourhood, or I will not be held responsible for my actions!!!!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I hope the police catch him and thrash him to within an inch of his life. Make no mistake, this guy is very sane, and totally self centred.

[heretoday]

If this guy hates coppers so much why don't they send the Army after him? He wouldn't lay a finger on them and they'd grab him easy.

What happened to bloodhounds by the way?

[Phil D. Rolls]

The old 'death penalty' debate could make an appearance again....all the proofs there....:cool2:

I've just finished night shift and really need a good sleep, if Northumberland Police need any help, I'll happily do the job myself.

Furthermore if they need any help negotiating with the guy through the media , they might like to consider that - living rough - he may well not have access to a TV set. I'm guessing the bloke that keeps coming on telling Moat that he'll get a fair kicking wasn't top of the class in communication skills at Police College.

[Ritchie]

I've just finished night shift and really need a good sleep, if Northumberland Police need any help, I'll happily do the job myself.

Furthermore if they need any help negotiating with the guy through the media , they might like to consider that - living rough - he may well not have access to a TV set. I'm guessing the bloke that keeps coming on telling Moat that he'll get a fair kicking wasn't top of the class in communication skills at Police College.

have to say, ive had a good chuckle to myself watching all these televised appeals.

most pointless excercise ever! :faf:

[Chuckie]

Good to see Valdas Ivanauskas has managed to find work doing the police Television statements....

[Ritchie]

Good to see Valdas Ivanauskas has managed to find work doing the police Television statements....

that is not even raoul moatly funny chuckie!



:wink:

[Chuckie]

that is not even raoul moatly funny chuckie!



:wink:

Police have offered a 10k reward for info on Moat.

Next week it will be 20k - A Raoulover.

[SHODAN]

Yet another proponent for increasing gun control.

The death penalty harbours no statistical proof toward lowering crime.

[Phil D. Rolls]

have to say, ive had a good chuckle to myself watching all these televised appeals.

most pointless excercise ever! :faf:

I reckon some Walter Mitty type has been kidding on he's Tyneside's chief negotiator.


"I'm Jack. If you had a TV you'd see we are still having no luck catching you. I have the greatest respect for you Mr. Moatl, but Lord! We are no nearer catching you now than seven days ago when you left prison with a Gateshead bus ticket and sawn off shotgun. I reckon my boys are letting me down, Raoul. They can't be much good, can they?"

[Leicester Fan]

Dear Mr Moat
It has come to light that whilst you were in prison, the entire England world cup squad ****ged your mrs.

Yours
Fabio

[Sir David Gray]

Anyone else see the Hibs fan that was on camera earlier when they were doing a report in Rothbury?

I can't remember if it was during a Police interview or not but the guy had on the black away top with the green trim that we had a couple of years ago.

[Beefster]

Yet another proponent for increasing gun control.

The death penalty harbours no statistical proof toward lowering crime.

I can't imagine that his guns are legally held so tighter controls wouldn't have made the blindest bit of difference.

[Chuckie]

I am so sick of the constant TV news about this nutter near Newcastle and want to change the channel but can't find my raoulmoat control.

[CropleyWasGod]

I am so sick of the constant TV news about this nutter near Newcastle and want to change the channel but can't find my raoulmoat control.

You really are on a Raoul, Chuckie..

[Leicester Fan]

Northumbria police have put a £10k price on Raoul Moat's head.







If they haven't got him by next week it goes up to £20k.....making it a Raoul Over

[CropleyWasGod]

Northumbria police have put a £10k price on Raoul Moat's head.







If they haven't got him by next week it goes up to £20k.....making it a Raoul Over

Chuckie got there first... see Number 17.

Raoul number 1.... read all posts before posting.

[ArabHibee]

Raoul Moat has put his car up for sale on E-bay.

Apparently he just wants coppers for it.

[Jonnyboy]

I've just finished night shift and really need a good sleep, if Northumberland Police need any help, I'll happily do the job myself.

Furthermore if they need any help negotiating with the guy through the media , they might like to consider that - living rough - he may well not have access to a TV set. I'm guessing the bloke that keeps coming on telling Moat that he'll get a fair kicking wasn't top of the class in communication skills at Police College.


have to say, ive had a good chuckle to myself watching all these televised appeals.

most pointless excercise ever! :faf:


I reckon some Walter Mitty type has been kidding on he's Tyneside's chief negotiator.

Given that they have now arrested four known associates I take it that it never occurred to you that the guy might well be sitting in a house somewhere watching this whole thing unfold?

I find it pretty sad that fun is being poked at the police whilst they are simply trying to do their job and catch this guy

[RigRoars]

Given that they have now arrested four known associates I take it that it never occurred to you that the guy might well be sitting in a house somewhere watching this whole thing unfold?

I find it pretty sad that fun is being poked at the police whilst they are simply trying to do their job and catch this guy


:agree:

I don't find it Raoulmoatly funny.

[PaulSmith]

Given that they have now arrested four known associates I take it that it never occurred to you that the guy might well be sitting in a house somewhere watching this whole thing unfold?

I find it pretty sad that fun is being poked at the police whilst they are simply trying to do their job and catch this guy

I think that the issue is that it's almost a big brother live reality SAS survival type programme that is being played out live on our 24hr news channels. He's like a character from a xbox game, some anti authority 'hero' who is taking his revenge upon the 'evil establishment'... Of course though it's real and it is real peoples lives that have been destroyed but I'll happily admit that I've been glued to sky news waiting for the latest live update, secretly hoping that the next moment is captured live on tv.
I realise it's wrong but as a society we've become somewhat removed from reality due to sensationalist headlines and live TV.

[Toaods]

The old 'death penalty' debate could make an appearance again....all the proofs there....:cool2:



no need for any consultation....this clown will be brought back riddled with bullets and inside a bodybag.


Score predictor says:

Raving nutjob 0

Highly Trained Police Marksmen scoring a direct hit 8

[Ed De Gramo]

Should just send a tag team of Ray Mears and Bear Grylls in to hunt him down...

[Sir David Gray]

Anyone else see the Hibs fan that was on camera earlier when they were doing a report in Rothbury?

I can't remember if it was during a Police interview or not but the guy had on the black away top with the green trim that we had a couple of years ago.

So it was just me that saw him then!? :confused:

:greengrin

[PaulSmith]

No fish in Northumbria until the Moat comes in!

[khib70]

I think that the issue is that it's almost a big brother live reality SAS survival type programme that is being played out live on our 24hr news channels. He's like a character from a xbox game, some anti authority 'hero' who is taking his revenge upon the 'evil establishment'... Of course though it's real and it is real peoples lives that have been destroyed but I'll happily admit that I've been glued to sky news waiting for the latest live update, secretly hoping that the next moment is captured live on tv.
I realise it's wrong but as a society we've become somewhat removed from reality due to sensationalist headlines and live TV.
An honest and pretty accurate post. Generations brought up on 24 hour news, Rambo and Grand Theft Auto are inevitably going to romanticise this character, especially as he's money on to end up dead.

The fact that he is an egotistical, wife-beating, ****** whose "revenge upon the evil establishment" consists of shooting an unarmed traffic cop in the face, then skulking in a muddy field, while firing off endless masturbatory letters to the police, won't get in the way of tabloid legend making.

And that's where the real danger lies. Not in some mythical alliance of "social workers and communists" banging on about his messy childhood. This romanticisation of what is, basically, just sociopathic behaviour, will unfortunately probaly "inspire" a few more self pitying misfits with a grudge and a gun.

[Betty Boop]

Apparently armed police are in a confrontation with Moat, he is holding a gun to his head.

[Chuckie]

Goodnight Sweet Prince.......

[Chuckie]

The policeman should trick him by holding a gun to his own head.

Raoul wont have a ****ing clue what to do.

'Don't shoot or the ni**er get's it' .... 'oh lord, wont somebody help that man'...... 'heeeeeelp me heeeeeeeelp me'

[Twa Cairpets]

I think that the issue is that it's almost a big brother live reality SAS survival type programme that is being played out live on our 24hr news channels. He's like a character from a xbox game, some anti authority 'hero' who is taking his revenge upon the 'evil establishment'... Of course though it's real and it is real peoples lives that have been destroyed but I'll happily admit that I've been glued to sky news waiting for the latest live update, secretly hoping that the next moment is captured live on tv.
I realise it's wrong but as a society we've become somewhat removed from reality due to sensationalist headlines and live TV.

Where is this guy being called a hero?

[Twa Cairpets]

I wouldn't have thought so Gramo, it would just result in all the resident social workers and Communists defending his civil liberties and blaming the Police and his "chaotic lifestyle". Nice to see the early release programme is working so well.

Predicatable anger at the world from Hibs.net resident furymonger. So lets see:

- No-one (not even social workers or communists) standing up for his civil liberties
- No-one blaimg the police
- No-one blaming his chaotic lifestyle

So thats you wrong on every count then.

Just out of curiosity, do you think social-workers are a bad thing for a modern society to have?

[CB_NO3]

Predicatable anger at the world from Hibs.net resident furymonger. So lets see:

- No-one (not even social workers or communists) standing up for his civil liberties
- No-one blaimg the police
- No-one blaming his chaotic lifestyle

So thats you wrong on every count then.

Just out of curiosity, do you think social-workers are a bad thing for a modern society to have?

Getting quite interesting now, this and T in the park on TV, should be a no bad Friday night in.

[IWasThere2016]

They've got him surrounded. He's got a sawn off shotgun at his own throat .. Appears he's no that good a shot suddenly :cool2:

The Polis should just plug him with ten rounds IMHO - otherwise we pay to keep this scrotum in comfort for the rest of his days!

[Sumner]

Gun to his own neck, awfy shame if he sneezed,
could be mindblowing, Ahh Ahh Ahhh Chooo BOOOM :whistle:

[Sergey]

They've got him surrounded. He's got a sawn off shotgun at his own throat .. Appears he's no that good a shot suddenly :cool2:

The Polis should just plug him with ten rounds IMHO - otherwise we pay to keep this scrotum in comfort for the rest of his days!

The Old Bill will drag this out. A lot of these coppers (several hundred, if not more) are on overtime.

[IWasThere2016]

The OT point crossed my mind too - hopefully a bullet is the next thing to cross Moat's :greengrin

[Chuckie]

The Old Bill will drag this out. A lot of these coppers (several hundred, if not more) are on overtime.

:agree:

I'm watching from a German news channel and they're showing footage of a chip shop with dozens of police officers in there laughing and joking, and ordering suppers.

One of them is even playing with a yo-yo.

[bighairyfaeleith]

got to laugh at how long it has taken for the polis to catch this **** though, how **** are they:confused:

[Sumner]

:agree:

I'm watching from a German news channel and they're showing footage of a chip shop with dozens of police officers in there laughing and joking, and ordering suppers.

One of them is even playing with a yo-yo.

Cool - what channel ? Got a link ? :confused:

[IWasThere2016]

Moat lying face down with gun at his neck .. Onus on Polis to act, and the Polis will be keeching themselves as they will not want to shoot or prompt Moat pulling the trigger. This could take a while .. ching ching goes the overtime till.

[Sergey]

got to laugh at how long it has taken for the polis to catch this **** though, how **** are they:confused:

Exactly. Regan and Carter and Thames Television would have had this wrapped up in a 55 minute episode....with a couple of bimbos thrown-in for good measure.

Haskins wouldn't even have needed to get involved.

[IWasThere2016]

Whaur's Phil Glenister when you need him?!?

[Sir David Gray]

They've got him surrounded. He's got a sawn off shotgun at his own throat .. Appears he's no that good a shot suddenly :cool2:

The Polis should just plug him with ten rounds IMHO - otherwise we pay to keep this scrotum in comfort for the rest of his days!

:agree: I know that if the Police were to shoot and kill him, and it was to transpire through an investigation that he didn't pose an immediate threat to the Police or the public, there would be thousands of people lining up to criticise the Police and calling for criminal proceedings to start against the officer(s) concerned.

Personally I couldn't care less if the Police did shoot him in fact, for the sake of the residents of Rothbury who have had to endure a whole week of fear and disruption to their daily lives, I hope they do just that and bring the whole thing to an end and the village can start to get back to normality.

Stuff all this negotiating nonsense, it's not as if he's holding any hostages.

[hibsbollah]

got to laugh at how long it has taken for the polis to catch this **** though, how **** are they:confused:

:bitchy:have you ever been to the Northumbrian National Park? Miles and miles of dense forest with lots of good hiding places. It could have taken them months to find him. I'm amazed they found him so quickly.

[Betty Boop]

Moat's best friend is now being led in to the police cordon, to try and negotiate the situation to a peaceful conclusion.

[IWasThere2016]

Excellent - what price the Polis to shoot the two of them? :greengrin

[Sumner]

"Shoot da Runner
Shoot, Shoot da Runner"



... not a comment of course,
just listening to Kasabian :wink:

[Sergey]

Dare I say it, but this is better than some of the matches in the World Cup?

Looks like ET and then a final shoot-out :greengrin

[Sumner]

Dare I say it, but this is better than some of the matches in the World Cup?

Looks like ET and then a final shoot-out :greengrin

... and not finished
until Sunday night
(double time for Sundays)

[Twa Cairpets]

:agree: I know that if the Police were to shoot and kill him, and it was to transpire through an investigation that he didn't pose an immediate threat to the Police or the public, there would be thousands of people lining up to criticise the Police and calling for criminal proceedings to start against the officer(s) concerned.

Personally I couldn't care less if the Police did shoot him in fact, for the sake of the residents of Rothbury who have had to endure a whole week of fear and disruption to their daily lives, I hope they do just that and bring the whole thing to an end and the village can start to get back to normality.

Stuff all this negotiating nonsense, it's not as if he's holding any hostages.

So, just to be clear, you're advocating assassination?

I have not the merest hint of a shred of sympathy for this man, and if he does end up getting shot because he pulls a gun then I wont really care. I'm just curious that you think the police shooting people off their own back is a good thing.

[IWasThere2016]

It will finish aboot 7pm Sunday in time for the WCF :wink:

[Hiber-nation]

Some of these Sky News reporters are hilarious, I'm expecting Alan Partridge to come walking on any minute.

[Sir David Gray]

Paul Gascoigne has arrived on the scene, claiming to be Raoul Moat's best friend! :confused:

[lyonhibs]

apparently he's got no ammo. Now Mr Toad is on, giving her revealing analysis

[Chuckie]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaas !!

Go on Gazza !!

[Chuckie]

Makes a ****ing change Gazza bringing aid to people in need !!!

:grr:

[robinp]

Some of these Sky News reporters are hilarious, I'm expecting Alan Partridge to come walking on any minute.

The BBC is equally appalling and hilarious - John Sopel is like a fish out of water.

And don't get me started on Gazza - I've just stopped laughing, you couldn't make this ***** up! :agree:

[Ritchie]

2222 BST: The BBC's Fiona Trott says former footballer Paul Gascoigne appeared a short while ago at the police cordon. She says he posed for some pictures with children before driving off.

Gazza has to get involved in everything eh!! Haha

[IWasThere2016]

Mon the Gazza! :thumbsup:

Making Moat look semi-balanced?!? :dunno:

[Sumner]

BBC coverage FAR worse than Sky,
clueless questioning, man & woman in the street,
waiting for "what's you favourite colour?" next...

TV Tax for this, I could do better with a camcorder :yawn:

[Hibbie_Cameron]

Gazza was talking on Real Radio North East and he never sounded very sober

[robinp]

2222 BST: The BBC's Fiona Trott says former footballer Paul Gascoigne appeared a short while ago at the police cordon. She says he posed for some pictures with children before driving off.

Gazza has to get involved in everything eh!! Haha

Paul Gascoigne tells Metro Radio he brought Raoul Moat 'a can of lager, some chicken, a mobile phone' and some clothes.

[IWasThere2016]

3 new housemates in Big Brother - only caught a couple of names one is a Geordie called Paul .. Could it be???

[Sergey]

Typical Capello tactics. A like-for-like sub.

[IWasThere2016]

Or Yogi? :offski:

[Sumner]

Gazza translation:


"WhatyesayinlikeRaoulmancannylad
somechickenlagerlagerlageran'that,waayaye"

[Jonnyboy]

:bitchy:have you ever been to the Northumbrian National Park? Miles and miles of dense forest with lots of good hiding places. It could have taken them months to find him. I'm amazed they found him so quickly.

Indeed.

Still, it appears to be more fun for some sitting at a keyboard criticising whilst knowing very little of what's really been going on

[Hibbie_Cameron]

I often felt sorry for Gazza and seen him as a harmless sort of guy but tonights events are the lowest yet imo. Wonder if the cops will try and catch up with him when its all over for wasting there time

[SaulGoodman]

He's now standing with a shotgun to his head, Armed police are negotiating with him.

He's been delivered food and water :no way:

He's killed people and put a man in hospital yet the police are not shooting him :brickwall

[ballengeich]

He's now standing with a shotgun to his head, Armed police are negotiating with him.

He's been delivered food and water :no way:

He's killed people and put a man in hospital yet the police are not shooting him :brickwall

In a civilised society police shouldn't shoot people when there's no immediate threat to another person.

[CropleyWasGod]

He's now standing with a shotgun to his head, Armed police are negotiating with him.

He's been delivered food and water :no way:

He's killed people and put a man in hospital yet the police are not shooting him :brickwall

They have a duty to bring him to justice, not to dispense it. As long as there is no threat to them or the public, they can't just shoot him.

[SaulGoodman]

I know, I clicked on the wrong smiley :greengrin

I was just stating the facts :thumbsup:

[CropleyWasGod]

I know, I clicked on the wrong smiley :greengrin

I was just stating the facts :thumbsup:

Just as well you're not in the marksman team, eh no? :greengrin

[SaulGoodman]

Just as well you're not in the marksman team, eh no? :greengrin
:faf::faf:


:wink:

[Steve-O]

2222 BST: The BBC's Fiona Trott says former footballer Paul Gascoigne appeared a short while ago at the police cordon. She says he posed for some pictures with children before driving off.

Gazza has to get involved in everything eh!! Haha

Hope not, based on the interview I heard!

[IWasThere2016]

Well that's that. Moat blootered himsel' :thumbsup:

May he rot in hell.

With the sleep deprivation this was the only outcome as the **** was dead on his feet :wink: :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

So he didn't even have the bottle to finish the job properly? Strange how he was a good enough shot to kill his girlfriend's partner, but couldn't blow his own sorry head off from point blank range.

Typical of these personality disordered types, they love themselves far too much to seriously contemplate suicide. A pathetic case of death by misadventure, good riddance.

I just hope no-one is stupid enough to call this aberration of humanity a hero. He was a coward to the end, and is probably arguing with God as we speak blaming Him for putting a gun in his hand.

Sorry, but I feel it hard to feel compassion for a man who has acted n such an egoitistical manner with no regard for the feelings of anybody but himself.

[IWasThere2016]

Correct FR - cowardly psycho .. Good ruidance to him!

[Betty Boop]

I feel sorry for his three kids who will have to grow up with the consequences of his actions. ( and of course his victims, before anybody piles in with accusations of resident social workers and communists.) :bye:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I feel sorry for his three kids who will have to grow up with the consequences of his actions. ( and of course his victims, before anybody piles in with accusations of resident social workers and communists.) :bye:

I feel sorry for anyone who has ever had any dealings with him. He has shown that he has no concern whatsoever for the affect his actions have on other people.

Hopefully the communists and social workers :greengrin can work with the kids to help them understand what really went on here. Moat had choices, and it seems clear to me he based them on the fact that he was feeling extremely sorry for himself.

The police negotiators will have spent a lot of time trying to get throught to him exactly what the effect would be on others. For me, the minute he started saying that the public were at danger was when I realised what a truly dangerous man this was.

[Wembley67]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZHnWpLQtyo

[IWasThere2016]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZHnWpLQtyo

"Ah brought him a dressing gown, a big jacket, some chicken, bread, a can of lager and a fishing rod for him and me and we'll fish together" .. then tells us Moat's a good lad.

Clearly aff his nut! Sad ..

[CropleyWasGod]

"Ah brought him a dressing gown, a big jacket, some chicken, bread, a can of lager and a fishing rod for him and me and we'll fish together" .. then tells us Moat's a good lad.

Clearly aff his nut! Sad ..

Heartbreaking.

[the_ginger_hibee]

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/364/37312412275299764732229.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1958/37376101269463260672100.jpg

Leaked pics from last night.

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/364/37312412275299764732229.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1958/37376101269463260672100.jpg

Leaked pics from last night.

It shouldn't be funny maybe that's why it is. :faf:

[oconnors_strip]

So he didn't even have the bottle to finish the job properly? Strange how he was a good enough shot to kill his girlfriend's partner, but couldn't blow his own sorry head off from point blank range.

Typical of these personality disordered types, they love themselves far too much to seriously contemplate suicide. A pathetic case of death by misadventure, good riddance.

I just hope no-one is stupid enough to call this aberration of humanity a hero. He was a coward to the end, and is probably arguing with God as we speak blaming Him for putting a gun in his hand.

Sorry, but I feel it hard to feel compassion for a man who has acted n such an egoitistical manner with no regard for the feelings of anybody but himself.


from all the news reports and interview with eye witnesses, moat killed himself. he was always going to do it at the end of the day, he was just baiting the police for the past week:grr:

[Phil D. Rolls]

from all the news reports and interview with eye witnesses, moat killed himself. he was always going to do it at the end of the day, he was just baiting the police for the past week:grr:

I don't think that guy wanted to die - otherwise he would have done the job right. I believe he was the type of character that would never take responsibility for his own actions and in a warped way thought that shooting himself with all that back up at hand would give him a chance of survival.

I think it was a case of spite on his part, but a calculated case of spite. More "I'll show you how important I am than I hate this world and I don't want to live in it".

[Betty Boop]

I don't think that guy wanted to die - otherwise he would have done the job right. I believe he was the type of character that would never take responsibility for his own actions and in a warped way thought that shooting himself with all that back up at hand would give him a chance of survival.

I think it was a case of spite on his part, but a calculated case of spite. More "I'll show you how important I am than I hate this world and I don't want to live in it".

Do you think he shot himself ? From the Sky News footage, there appears to be the sound of more than one gunshot, amid the cafuffle. Not saying that this is definitely the case, but I thought I heard more than one gunshot.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do you think he shot himself ? From the Sky News footage, there appears to be the sound of more than one gunshot, amid the cafuffle. Not saying that this is definitely the case, but I thought I heard more than one gunshot.

Maybe an echo?

[Betty Boop]

Maybe an echo?

Yeah perhaps you are right. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Do you think he shot himself ? From the Sky News footage, there appears to be the sound of more than one gunshot, amid the cafuffle. Not saying that this is definitely the case, but I thought I heard more than one gunshot.

Possible the police weren't taking any chances. :agree:

[IWasThere2016]

Its possible Moat did a Heskey and needed two shots fae pointblank range to make sure one hit the target :dunno:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Its possible Moat did a Heskey and needed two shots fae pointblank range to make sure one hit the target :dunno:

I think it's:

"How man ahm serious me, look a ken whar the trigga is like, see ahm ****in serious man! Nee weh ahm ah goan back tae cho&^%^^&&......."

[Betty Boop]

Possible the police weren't taking any chances. :agree:

The police commissioner has just said in the press conference, that they used a taser on him.

[shamo9]

Killing yourself, particular on account of your own physical volition (pulling a trigger, slitting wrist), does take a moment of very real courage. The majority of people are never capable of such things, survival instincts are just too strong, the body'll sooner slip off into unconsciousness before it lets someone piss about with it.

The occurrences where such a thing can take place: when people are suffering from diseases such as depression, or after years of indoctrination to the point where someone believes that something better is waiting for them. Both fall under the category of faulty thinking.

Killing someone else, by comparison, is relatively easier. There isn't the immediacy of consequence depending on the method (let's chuck a nuclear bomb!); it can rationalised as plain self-defence, survival or justifiable revenge and it doesn't mean it's game over for you.

I'm not trying to praise those that commit suicide by the way, a moment's courage isn't as challenging or arduous as a lifetime of it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Killing yourself, particular on account of your own physical volition (pulling a trigger, slitting wrist), does take a moment of very real courage. The majority of people are never capable of such things, survival instincts are just too strong, the body'll sooner slip off into unconsciousness before it lets someone piss about with it.

The occurrences where such a thing can take place: when people are suffering from diseases such as depression, or after years of indoctrination to the point where someone believes that something better is waiting for them. Both fall under the category of faulty thinking.

Killing someone else, by comparison, is relatively easier. There isn't the immediacy of consequence depending on the method (let's chuck a nuclear bomb!); it can rationalised as plain self-defence, survival or justifiable revenge and it doesn't mean it's game over for you.

I'm not trying to praise those that commit suicide by the way, a moment's courage isn't as challenging or arduous as a lifetime of it.

Great post! I think though, it is every person's right to end their own life, and sometimes it is a rational decision.

My opinion of Moat was that he was so selfish that he would never intend to kill himself. Rather, he would be the type to make a big gesture for the attention.

I don't know how his end actuall came about, but I would speculate that with the means to do it at his disposal he'd have killed himself if he really wanted to.

[Betty Boop]

Great post! I think though, it is every person's right to end their own life, and sometimes it is a rational decision.

My opinion of Moat was that he was so selfish that he would never intend to kill himself. Rather, he would be the type to make a big gesture for the attention.

I don't know how his end actuall came about, but I would speculate that with the means to do it at his disposal he'd have killed himself if he really wanted to.

Just watched his friends and family being interviewed, apparently he was a gentle giant who had everything going for him at one time, partner who he adored, beautiful kids, his own business etc, and then he began taking steroids and he lost everything. Don't know much about steroids, are they legal ?

[gringojoe]

How lower can Gazza go?

[Chuckie]

How lower can Gazza go?

He played for Glasgow Rangers, so this is by comparison a step up the ladder.

[hibsbollah]

If I was Raoul Moat, the prospect of a visit from a drunken gazza would have tipped me over the edge as well:rolleyes:

[(((Fergus)))]

Just watched his friends and family being interviewed, apparently he was a gentle giant who had everything going for him at one time, partner who he adored, beautiful kids, his own business etc, and then he began taking steroids and he lost everything. Don't know much about steroids, are they legal ?

yes there are legal steroids and they are a powerful group of drugs

[Sir David Gray]

If he was going to end up dead (rather than in custody) then it's happened in the best way. The fact that he died from a gunshot wound from his own gun, rather than from a shot from a Police marksman, means that there will be no huge investigation into any one officer asking why they chose to open fire and could they not have done something else other than shooting him.

Although I'm sure there will still be people trying to find ways of blaming the Police.

Personally I think the Police are to be commended as they managed to bring the whole thing to a conclusion without anyone else being killed or harmed. Although they might privately be quite happy that Moat is dead after he's harmed one of their own, these Police negotiators will be thinking that they have failed because their whole job in a situation like this is to make sure that the suspect is apprehended and brought into custody alive.

I just wish the Police officer who he shot and Moat's ex-girlfriend all the best in recovering from their injuries and I hope the family and friends of the guy who he murdererd can somehow try to get their lives back together. I also hope Raoul Moat's friends and family can attempt to move on with their lives as they have been every bit as affected by all this as everyone else.

Finally, I hope the people of Rothbury can now get back to normality as they can finally be safe in the knowledge that the crazed gunman who was in their "back garden" for the past week can never hurt them again.

[degenerated]

If he was going to end up dead (rather than in custody) then it's happened in the best way. The fact that he died from a gunshot wound from his own gun, rather than from a shot from a Police marksman, means that there will be no huge investigation into any one officer asking why they chose to open fire and could they not have done something else other than shooting him.

Although I'm sure there will still be people trying to find ways of blaming the Police.

Personally I think the Police are to be commended as they managed to bring the whole thing to a conclusion without anyone else being killed or harmed. Although they might privately be quite happy that Moat is dead after he's harmed one of their own, these Police negotiators will be thinking that they have failed because their whole job in a situation like this is to make sure that the suspect is apprehended and brought into custody alive.

I just wish the Police officer who he shot and Moat's ex-girlfriend all the best in recovering from their injuries and I hope the family and friends of the guy who he murdererd can somehow try to get their lives back together. I also hope Raoul Moat's friends and family can attempt to move on with their lives as they have been every bit as affected by all this as everyone else.

Finally, I hope the people of Rothbury can now get back to normality as they can finally be safe in the knowledge that the crazed gunman who was in their "back garden" for the past week can never hurt them again.


why should they be commended? they didn't take any action on the information given to them by the prison authorities that they felt his ex girlfriend would be at risk on his release. they took 6 days to release up to date photographs of him that they had in their possession. they took three days to release information on the car he was driving. sounds to me like they have made a bit of a james hunt of it.

[Chuckie]

why should they be commended? they didn't take any action on the information given to them by the prison authorities that they felt his ex girlfriend would be at risk on his release. they took 6 days to release up to date photographs of him that they had in their possession. they took three days to release information on the car he was driving. sounds to me like they have made a bit of a james hunt of it.

Not to mention the fact it took them 7 days to find a 6ft 3in, 230lb, ginger Mexican with a Geordie accent, in an orange t shirt in the middle of summer, in a wood.

[greenlex]

Not to mention the fact it took them 7 days to find a 6ft 3in, 230lb, ginger Mexican with a Geordie accent, in an orange t shirt in the middle of summer, in a wood.
I am so ashamed to have laughed out loud at your post Chuckie.:hilarious

[heretoday]

How lower can Gazza go?

I can't help picturing Gazza himself in a desperate stand-off situation with the police at some point in the future.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I can't help picturing Gazza himself in a desperate stand-off situation with the police at some point in the future.

Either that or he'll do a Hughie Gallagher. :agree:

[ballengeich]

If I was Raoul Moat, the prospect of a visit from a drunken gazza would have tipped me over the edge as well:rolleyes:

Why? Surely they could have exchanged tips on wife-beating.

[CropleyWasGod]

If he was going to end up dead (rather than in custody) then it's happened in the best way. The fact that he died from a gunshot wound from his own gun, rather than from a shot from a Police marksman, means that there will be no huge investigation into any one officer asking why they chose to open fire and could they not have done something else other than shooting him.

.

... except that there now will be.

Hindsight, eh? :wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

... except that there now will be.

Hindsight, eh? :wink:

I am sure Northumbria police will welcome this so that they can show everyone that they did everything right, and that there are no lesson to be learned. :agree:

[Ed De Gramo]

Do you think he shot himself ? From the Sky News footage, there appears to be the sound of more than one gunshot, amid the cafuffle. Not saying that this is definitely the case, but I thought I heard more than one gunshot.

Without a doubt 3 gunshots....:agree:

[Twa Cairpets]

I am sure Northumbria police will welcome this so that they can show everyone that they did everything right, and that there are no lesson to be learned. :agree:

Nothing like pre-judging eh, FR?

The options here are:

1) Investigation - I am sure Northumbria police will welcome this so that they can show everyone that they did everything right, and that there are no lesson to be learned, delivered obviously in a tone of deep sarcasm
2) No Investigation - Cover Up! Refusal to learn lessons! Acting above the law!

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[marinello59]

Do you think he shot himself ? From the Sky News footage, there appears to be the sound of more than one gunshot, amid the cafuffle. Not saying that this is definitely the case, but I thought I heard more than one gunshot.

The taser shots were shotgun powered so that would explain the other gunshot sounds. (Seemingly the Police thought he might be wearing body armour of some sort which standard tasers would not penetrate.)

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nothing like pre-judging eh, FR?

The options here are:

1) Investigation - I am sure Northumbria police will welcome this so that they can show everyone that they did everything right, and that there are no lesson to be learned, delivered obviously in a tone of deep sarcasm
2) No Investigation - Cover Up! Refusal to learn lessons! Acting above the law!

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Yeah it was a cheap shot at Northumbria Police. I really know nothing about what went on, I will genuinely be keeping an eye on the investigation. The whole thing has been fascinating.

What I'd really like to know is how they were managing to communicate with Moat. They must have had half an idea where he was.

I'd also be very interested in how much of an insight we can get into this guy's personality. What was it all about?

[Twa Cairpets]

Yeah it was a cheap shot at Northumbria Police. I really know nothing about what went on, I will genuinely be keeping an eye on the investigation. The whole thing has been fascinating.

What I'd really like to know is how they were managing to communicate with Moat. They must have had half an idea where he was.

I'd also be very interested in how much of an insight we can get into this guy's personality. What was it all about?

I recall they found three or four mobiles, and they also arrested those other guys. They also had hundreds of policeman in the place where they found him, so its fair to say they did half a lot more than half an idea of where they were... so I think there's your answer.

[New Corrie]

I think they should spend £300 million on a enquiry, we have obviously (as a society) failed this man. I can't believe the mocking of his plight on here and demise at the hands of those Daily Mail reading Fascist Pigs!! Shocking, the sort of thing you would expect to see on Follow Follow!

[Twa Cairpets]

I think they should spend £300 million on a enquiry, we have obviously (as a society) failed this man. I can't believe the mocking of his plight on here and demise at the hands of those Daily Mail reading Fascist Pigs!! Shocking, the sort of thing you would expect to see on Follow Follow!

So, is this a parody of corrie greens cunningly posted by a doppleganger corrie greens, or is is it the actual corrie greens trying somehow to get his genuine feelings over by hiding it within a self-parodying post. Or is it actually a genuine, irony free post?

Psychiatrists dream.

[SHODAN]

I think they should spend £300 million on a enquiry, we have obviously (as a society) failed this man. I can't believe the mocking of his plight on here and demise at the hands of those Daily Mail reading Fascist Pigs!! Shocking, the sort of thing you would expect to see on Follow Follow!

Take everything literally aside from the price of the inquiry and you're spot on.

[hibsbollah]

I think they should spend £300 million on a enquiry, we have obviously (as a society) failed this man. I can't believe the mocking of his plight on here and demise at the hands of those Daily Mail reading Fascist Pigs!! Shocking, the sort of thing you would expect to see on Follow Follow!

Who's said anything like that?:rolleyes:
Sarcasm is sometimes effective when its relevant.

[BEEJ]

If he was going to end up dead (rather than in custody) then it's happened in the best way. The fact that he died from a gunshot wound from his own gun, rather than from a shot from a Police marksman, means that there will be no huge investigation into any one officer asking why they chose to open fire and could they not have done something else other than shooting him.

Although I'm sure there will still be people trying to find ways of blaming the Police.


... except that there now will be.

Hindsight, eh? :wink:
So a criminal, recently released from prison, within a matter of days commits murder and shoots two other people, seriously injuring them in the process. He then goes on the run for a week, requiring a costly manhunt to to track him down with large numbers of police brought into the area to bolster protection for the public while the search goes on. All this while the police are calling on him to give himself up for the sake of his family, children etc.

This all culminates in a six hour stand-off at the end of which the fugitive kills himself.

Cue much angst-ridden hand-wringing in the media as to whether the police did the right thing by him in those last six hours. "Why didn't they taser him?" Turns out they did. "Why did they do that, it might have led to his gun going off?" "Why did it take so long to find him?" and many many more questions besides.

All questions posed invariably by folks who haven't the first clue what they're talking about. People who barely know how to spell the word 'manhunt' never mind conduct one.

In what other country would the media (and through them the wider public) scrutinise such events so closely in order to find an angle; to apportion blame. He wasn't tracked down and disarmed instantly so the whole exercise was apparently a wretched failure worthy of lengthy and costly investigation "to see what we can learn from it".

Don't bother, just ask the press. They're the alleged experts with an opinion on everything.

Who would be a cop in the UK? On a hiding to nothing.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Who would be a cop in the UK? On a hiding to nothing.

I think there are questions that public have a right to be answered. The one that concerns me is how he could just walk into the town of Rothbury. There is probably a very good explanation, but we need to hear it.

The other thing is, can lessons be learned from this:do the police need to change their procedures when given an early alert by the prison; were the methods they used to try and break the guy down and give himself up the right ones; were their search and surveillance techniques robust enough; did they clear the centre of Rothbury quickly enough when Moat was discovered 50 yards from the main street?

In any situation like this it is important to review the processes to see what went right and what went wrong. I said it slightly sarcastically before, but if I was the head of Northumbria police I would want to show that the force had done the best they can.

The police are there to serve the public. Rightly or wrongly there was a general state of alarm whilst all this was going on. Wouldn't it serve everybody if the police were able to say "we couldn't have done any better", or, "we have changed our procedures as we found out that certain aspects didn't work"?

[down-the-slope]

I think the police did a fantastic job in very difficult circumstances which was undermined in a number of ways by the media

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think the police did a fantastic job in very difficult circumstances which was undermined in a number of ways by the media

I agree that the media were irresponsible, the policemen were in a very difficult situation and BBC were conducting interviews in the main street, and the Sun had a photographer taking pictures of the policemen.

[down-the-slope]

I agree that the media were irresponsible, the policemen were in a very difficult situation and BBC were conducting interviews in the main street, and the Sun had a photographer taking pictures of the policemen.

:agree: but that was only the tip of the iceberg and towards the end...there was plenty more during the whole episode..some maybe widely know...some not

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: but that was only the tip of the iceberg and towards the end...there was plenty more during the whole episode..some maybe widely know...some not

Maybe an enquiry would bring some focus onto the difficult cirumstances the police were operating under, and deliver a rebuke to irresponsible reporters. :dunno:

[heretoday]

The media are scary in this country. They are getting too powerful.

[bawheid]

David Cameron was on telly today telling the public who they're allowed to show symapthy for, and who they aren't.

He's apparently also going to contact facebook and tell them to remove the Moat tribute pages.

[CropleyWasGod]

David Cameron was on telly today telling the public who they're allowed to show symapthy for, and who they aren't.

He's apparently also going to contact facebook and tell them to remove the Moat tribute pages.

Will he also let me know who to vote for on Big Brother later? :confused:

[bawheid]

Will he also let me know who to vote for on Big Brother later? :confused:

I'm not sure what to have for dinner. I'm hoping he'll let me know or I might starve. :boo hoo:

[down-the-slope]

The media are scary in this country. They are getting too powerful.
:agree: but it is also a symptom of us wanting 24/7 rolling news which then becomes a monster that needs feed...which leads to the 'making' of news to fill this appetite..thats what was happening to a great extent in Rothbury...and i'm sure is also the case with other stories?

[Ed De Gramo]

David Cameron was on telly today telling the public who they're allowed to show symapthy for, and who they aren't.

He's apparently also going to contact facebook and tell them to remove the Moat tribute pages.

Facebook have told him to take a running jump :greengrin

[Betty Boop]

David Cameron was on telly today telling the public who they're allowed to show symapthy for, and who they aren't.

He's apparently also going to contact facebook and tell them to remove the Moat tribute pages.

I thought the Tories were all for freedom of speech ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Facebook have told him to take a running jump :greengrin

... before or after they poke him?

[marinello59]

I thought the Tories were all for freedom of speech ?

It is a strange story though. A pretty cold hearted and cowardly murderer becomes a legend to some. It's a pity Moat hadn't survived long enough the enter the Big Brother house. I am pretty sure the Facebookers would have had him winning it.:agree:

[Woody1985]

I thought the Tories were all for freedom of speech ?

Would you have posted this if they tried to have the BNP banned? :greengrin

[wpj]

I'm not sure what to have for dinner. I'm hoping he'll let me know or I might starve. :boo hoo:

Surely that's Petrie's job :confused:

[khib70]

David Cameron was on telly today telling the public who they're allowed to show symapthy for, and who they aren't.

He's apparently also going to contact facebook and tell them to remove the Moat tribute pages.
:bitchy:No he wasn't . He was simply quite rightly saying that sympathy for Moat was inappropriate in his opinion. .

The facebook page is a pathetic meeting place for keyboard Andy McNabs and halfwit petty criminals with a grudge against the police. It's a diversion for them while they sit in darkened bedrooms full of empty kebab boxes and semen-encursted underpants, pleasuring themselves to online military surplus catalogues. I wouldn't ban it because censorship just makes martyrs out of knobends. It also gives an opening for sensible people to come on and tell the bottom feeders who started it what they think of them And besides, it saves Jeremy Kyle's researchers from having to hang out in Farmfoods all day to recruit participants.

Moat's departure has enriched society, and the human gene pool. Sympathy rightly belongs to his victims and their families.

[J-C]

The girl that started the Facebook page was on the Ian Collins show on Talksport last night.
To say this girl was the thickest stupidest eejit of a human being is an understatement, her argument was that Raoul was cool by keeping the police at bay for over a week and at least it gave the police something to do and earn their money for a change.:confused:

Oh! and yes you've guessed it, she also had kids........where's natural selection when you need it.:wink:

[Phil D. Rolls]

Not bein' funny :hilarious but if Rool Moat was so good at run-n away :offski: how *** he was in pris-on??? :shocked:

[Leicester Fan]

:bitchy:No he wasn't . He was simply quite rightly saying that sympathy for Moat was inappropriate in his opinion. .

The facebook page is a pathetic meeting place for keyboard Andy McNabs and halfwit petty criminals with a grudge against the police. It's a diversion for them while they sit in darkened bedrooms full of empty kebab boxes and semen-encursted underpants, pleasuring themselves to online military surplus catalogues. I wouldn't ban it because censorship just makes martyrs out of knobends. It also gives an opening for sensible people to come on and tell the bottom feeders who started it what they think of them And besides, it saves Jeremy Kyle's researchers from having to hang out in Farmfoods all day to recruit participants.

Moat's departure has enriched society, and the human gene pool. Sympathy rightly belongs to his victims and their families.

:top marks

[IWasThere2016]

Gazza was talking on Real Radio North East and he never sounded very sober

Gazza off to rehab after Moat incident (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3055194/Paul-Gascoigne-goes-into-rehab-after-attempt-to-negotiate-with-fugitive-gunman-Raoul-Moat.html) Good luck to him!

[Hibrandenburg]

Yet another proponent for increasing gun control.

The death penalty harbours no statistical proof toward lowering crime.

It has a dramatic effect on the number of re-offenders though.

[bawheid]

:bitchy:No he wasn't . He was simply quite rightly saying that sympathy for Moat was inappropriate in his opinion. .

The facebook page is a pathetic meeting place for keyboard Andy McNabs and halfwit petty criminals with a grudge against the police. It's a diversion for them while they sit in darkened bedrooms full of empty kebab boxes and semen-encursted underpants, pleasuring themselves to online military surplus catalogues. I wouldn't ban it because censorship just makes martyrs out of knobends. It also gives an opening for sensible people to come on and tell the bottom feeders who started it what they think of them And besides, it saves Jeremy Kyle's researchers from having to hang out in Farmfoods all day to recruit participants.

Moat's departure has enriched society, and the human gene pool. Sympathy rightly belongs to his victims and their families.

I agree with you, but does it need David Cameron to stand up in the commons and tell me what my opinion should be?

This is what he said:

"There should be sympathy for his victims and the havoc he wreaked in that community.

"There should be no sympathy for him."

I don't need the PM telling me who I should and shouldn't show sympathy for. I'm capable of deciding for myself.

[Twa Cairpets]

I agree with you, but does it need David Cameron to stand up in the commons and tell me what my opinion should be?

This is what he said:

"There should be sympathy for his victims and the havoc he wreaked in that community.

"There should be no sympathy for him."

I don't need the PM telling me who I should and shouldn't show sympathy for. I'm capable of deciding for myself.

Of course you don't, but as he is the Prime minister and there does appear to tens of thousands of people who do need a wee hand in getting their personal morality in order, I dont have any problems in Cameron stating what he did. Surely leaders ae meant to offer leadership?

[CropleyWasGod]

Of course you don't, but as he is the Prime minister and there does appear to tens of thousands of people who do need a wee hand in getting their personal morality in order, I dont have any problems in Cameron stating what he did. Surely leaders ae meant to offer leadership?

Offer it, yes.

Prescribe our morality, no.

[marinello59]

I agree with you, but does it need David Cameron to stand up in the commons and tell me what my opinion should be?

This is what he said:

"There should be sympathy for his victims and the havoc he wreaked in that community.

"There should be no sympathy for him."

I don't need the PM telling me who I should and shouldn't show sympathy for. I'm capable of deciding for myself.

Maybe politicians should hold up a great big sign saying IMHO before they speak.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree with you, but does it need David Cameron to stand up in the commons and tell me what my opinion should be?

This is what he said:

"There should be sympathy for his victims and the havoc he wreaked in that community.

"There should be no sympathy for him."

I don't need the PM telling me who I should and shouldn't show sympathy for. I'm capable of deciding for myself.

If you think the PM is speaking directly to you, you should maybe think again.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Gazza off to rehab after Moat incident (http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3055194/Paul-Gascoigne-goes-into-rehab-after-attempt-to-negotiate-with-fugitive-gunman-Raoul-Moat.html) Good luck to him!

See if Gascoigne has been getting all this treatment privately, he should really think about asking for a refund.

As for the bit about him going through "cold turkey". More twisting of facts by journalists to make detoxing seem a lot harder than it is.

[J-C]

Cameron is only saying what millions were thinking, if you don't fall into that category then that means you sympathise with all cold hearted murdering *********s, some people need to get a real grip on reality and their morals before posting on here.

[CropleyWasGod]

Cameron is only saying what millions were thinking, if you don't fall into that category then that means you sympathise with all cold hearted murdering *********s, some people need to get a real grip on reality and their morals before posting on here.

It.s not about disagreeing with him, though, it's about disagreeing with the idea that he should be able to prescribe how we think.

[Leicester Fan]

It was the tories all along:grr:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/moat-killed-by-cabal-of-secret-tory-billionaires-201007122897/

[marinello59]

It.s not about disagreeing with him, though, it's about disagreeing with the idea that he should be able to prescribe how we think.

He hasn't though. He voiced an opinion and decided on a course of action based on that. That's what all politicians in power do. Don't they?:confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

He hasn't though. He voiced an opinion and decided on a course of action based on that. That's what all politicians in power do. Don't they?:confused:

Sorry, I know he didn't. But (admittedly before I took the time to actually read what he said :greengrin).. the thread earlier was about whether he should be prescribing our morals.

[Gatecrasher]

The girl that started the Facebook page was on the Ian Collins show on Talksport last night.
To say this girl was the thickest stupidest eejit of a human being is an understatement, her argument was that Raoul was cool by keeping the police at bay for over a week and at least it gave the police something to do and earn their money for a change.:confused:

Oh! and yes you've guessed it, she also had kids........where's natural selection when you need it.:wink:

heard that as well, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious :agree:

i like Ian Collins and he tore her to bits as he does with people like that.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/iancollinslateshow

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sorry, I know he didn't. But (admittedly before I took the time to actually read what he said :greengrin).. the thread earlier was about whether he should be prescribing our morals.

No, he should reflect the morals of the majority of the people.

[bighairyfaeleith]

I don't in any way agree with what this bampot done however should Cameron not be trying to understand why a minority think he is a hero rather than trying to prevent peoples freedom of speech?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

No, he should reflect the morals of the majority of the people.

Agreed. :agree:

But, as the previous poster said, he should also try to understand the minority. He shouldn't pander to them , of course, but there is an onus on him (the collective "him", the establishment) to try and change the conditions that lead to such extreme views. Those conditions, be they social or economic or whatever, are within his remit and, to a certain extent, are within his gift to change.

[Gatecrasher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufhPjY3X6rs
:rolleyes:

[hibsdaft]

Maybe politicians should hold up a great big sign saying IMHO before they speak.

no, its why proper politicians (statesmen) don't make inane statements such as Cameron's. there's not many statesmen around these days though sadly.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't in any way agree with what this bampot done however should Cameron not be trying to understand why a minority think he is a hero rather than trying to prevent peoples freedom of speech?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk


Agreed. :agree:

But, as the previous poster said, he should also try to understand the minority. He shouldn't pander to them , of course, but there is an onus on him (the collective "him", the establishment) to try and change the conditions that lead to such extreme views. Those conditions, be they social or economic or whatever, are within his remit and, to a certain extent, are within his gift to change.

I think the internet has given a voice to people who weren't listened to before - now we know the reason why.

[bighairyfaeleith]

If you suppress these opinions you end up with more rauls

Better to understand and try to change.

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

[J-C]

I don't in any way agree with what this bampot done however should Cameron not be trying to understand why a minority think he is a hero rather than trying to prevent peoples freedom of speech?

Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk

Did you read what some of these bampots were saying on that Facebook page, one guy said if his girlfriend had done this, he hoped he had the ball's to do what Moat did. You want to pander and try to understand these thick, **** for brains numbskulls. :confused:

[bighairyfaeleith]

Did you read what some of these bampots were saying on that Facebook page, one guy said if his girlfriend had done this, he hoped he had the ball's to do what Moat did. You want to pander and try to understand these thick, **** for brains numbskulls. :confused:

nope never read the page and won't be reading the new one either. The point however is that 120000 people have signed up to the new page today, this is not a couple of idiots, it's a lot of people. I'm not saying pander to them either, I'm saying just restricting there speech won't help and a more persuasive approach would be better

[heretoday]

They're making great play about how the Facebook posters are part of an army of disenfranchised white male underclass.

The people laying wreaths at Rothbury didn't look like underclass though. They were just fat, badly dressed numpties.

You see them everywhere.

[Twa Cairpets]

nope never read the page and won't be reading the new one either. The point however is that 120000 people have signed up to the new page today, this is not a couple of idiots, it's a lot of people. I'm not saying pander to them either, I'm saying just restricting there speech won't help and a more persuasive approach would be better

Its not a couple of idiots, it's 120,000 idiots. In the same way that 564,331 idiots voted BNP at the last election. Sad fact of the matter is that there are lots of idiots, each with a stupidity so fundamental and crassly infantile in their inability to think uncritically beyond a sound bite or the tiniest piece of received wisdom that it makes you want to weep. Think Jeremy Kyle guests. Think "The Scheme".

I really, really don't like the Tories or Cameron, but coming out and condemning something that is deeply unpleasant is not a bad thing, and to play the "freedom of speech" card is a cop-out. Being encouraged by lack of condemantion to do something that is repugnant and offensive could be seen as a tacit acceptance of its validity, and that really would have been an unacceptable stance for the PM to take.

[CropleyWasGod]

I do wonder if, had the digital age been around at the time, whether there would have been FB pages in support of Dick Turpin and Robin Hood?

There also will be those who will take sides against the establishment, no matter the circumstances. That is a fact of life. However, the FB generation has given a voice... quite a loud voice, as we have seen... to that sector of society.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I do wonder if, had the digital age been around at the time, whether there would have been FB pages in support of Dick Turpin and Robin Hood?

There also will be those who will take sides against the establishment, no matter the circumstances. That is a fact of life. However, the FB generation has given a voice... quite a loud voice, as we have seen... to that sector of society.

Found inscribed on the toilet wall of Ma Porter's Ale and Pie Shoppe (non Nazi)

Forsooth Turpin was only seeking the help that any good man deserveth. For he'd begged the people at Bedlam to give him his own room and all the claret and oysters he could eat for a long time. His pleas tho' fell on the ears of the deaf, forcing this unfortunate Knave to flee from the Bow Street Runners.

Had it not been for such ungodly feelings of the gentry and establ'shment he would not have been compell'd to end his lonely life by stepping into the hangman's noose.

Hoorah hoorah for Brave Dick
Stout man true
Hero of the thick
He has danced the Newgate Jig
A hero for the hopeless
One in the eye for the whigs

God Save the King!

[CropleyWasGod]

Found inscribed on the toilet wall of Ma Porter's Ale and Pie Shoppe (non Nazi)

Forsooth Turpin was only seeking the help that any good man deserveth. For he'd begged the people at Bedlam to give him his own room and all the claret and oysters he could eat for a long time. His pleas tho' fell on the ears of the deaf, forcing this unfortunate Knave to flee from the Bow Street Runners.

Had it not been for such ungodly feelings of the gentry and establ'shment he would not have been compell'd to end his lonely life by stepping into the hangman's noose.

Hoorah hoorah for Brave Dick
Stout man true
Hero of the thick
He has danced the Newgate Jig
A hero for the hopeless
One in the eye for the whigs

God Save the King!



Yeah, someone shouted that out on Springer once....:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Yeah, someone shouted that out on Springer once....:greengrin

That Heinlich Himmler only needed some love you know.:agree:

[RyeSloan]

Its not a couple of idiots, it's 120,000 idiots. In the same way that 564,331 idiots voted BNP at the last election. Sad fact of the matter is that there are lots of idiots, each with a stupidity so fundamental and crassly infantile in their inability to think uncritically beyond a sound bite or the tiniest piece of received wisdom that it makes you want to weep. Think Jeremy Kyle guests. Think "The Scheme".

I really, really don't like the Tories or Cameron, but coming out and condemning something that is deeply unpleasant is not a bad thing, and to play the "freedom of speech" card is a cop-out. Being encouraged by lack of condemantion to do something that is repugnant and offensive could be seen as a tacit acceptance of its validity, and that really would have been an unacceptable stance for the PM to take.

Agreed. To somehow present Camerons comments as prescribing morals or the like is taking things too far. I think he had every right to speak out about the rather odious praise a cold blooded killer has received and was correct in what he said...to somehow then present that as the issue rather than 100k+ supporting a man who had killed one, blinded another by shooting him in the face and brought fear into a huge area of the UK for a week I find slightly bizzare.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Agreed. To somehow present Camerons comments as prescribing morals or the like is taking things too far. I think he had every right to speak out about the rather odious praise a cold blooded killer has received and was correct in what he said...to somehow then present that as the issue rather than 100k+ supporting a man who had killed one, blinded another by shooting him in the face and brought fear into a huge area of the UK for a week I find slightly bizzare.

Yet bizarrely this brave man couldn't blow his own head off from point blank range. :agree:

[Betty Boop]

Maybe an echo?

Audio analysis has suggested that three shots were fired in three seconds. Two taser shots and one gunshot ? I wasn't hearing things after all ! :greengrin

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Raoul-Moat-Analysis-Of-Audio-Recorded-at-Time-Of-Stand-off-Suggests-Three-Shots-Fired-In-Seconds/Article/201007315665453?f=rss

[marinello59]

Audio analysis has suggested that three shots were fired in three seconds. Two taser shots and one gunshot ? I wasn't hearing things after all ! :greengrin

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Raoul-Moat-Analysis-Of-Audio-Recorded-at-Time-Of-Stand-off-Suggests-Three-Shots-Fired-In-Seconds/Article/201007315665453?f=rss

See post 122.:greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

FWIW I have little or no time for Cameron but I really don't think he was telling us what we should think. It's interesting that such stock phrases have been taken that way by some posters.

[Phil D. Rolls]

FWIW I have little or no time for Cameron but I really don't think he was telling us what we should think. It's interesting that such stock phrases have been taken that way by some posters.

Who are you to tell me what I should make of stock phrases! :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

Who are you to tell me what I should make of stock phrases! :greengrin

Your older, wiser netter :greengrin

[Onceinawhile]

I knew he was upset about leaving Real Madrid... But this is a bit too far...

[bighairyfaeleith]

FWIW I have little or no time for Cameron but I really don't think he was telling us what we should think. It's interesting that such stock phrases have been taken that way by some posters.

I would say that telling facebook to take down a page is quite clearly infringing on peoples freedom of speech. Labour would have done exactly the same by the way, doesn't make it right though. As much as we might not like what they are saying, they are perfectly within there rights to hold that opinion and you can't just say your wrong and we're going to put you away in a corner and not allow you to speak as your just an idiot. Even if they are:greengrin

[bighairyfaeleith]

Its not a couple of idiots, it's 120,000 idiots. In the same way that 564,331 idiots voted BNP at the last election. Sad fact of the matter is that there are lots of idiots, each with a stupidity so fundamental and crassly infantile in their inability to think uncritically beyond a sound bite or the tiniest piece of received wisdom that it makes you want to weep. Think Jeremy Kyle guests. Think "The Scheme".

I really, really don't like the Tories or Cameron, but coming out and condemning something that is deeply unpleasant is not a bad thing, and to play the "freedom of speech" card is a cop-out. Being encouraged by lack of condemantion to do something that is repugnant and offensive could be seen as a tacit acceptance of its validity, and that really would have been an unacceptable stance for the PM to take.

Of course he should speak against it, that's his opinion and I think it's the right opinion. However trying to stop people speaking just because you think them stupider than you is simply wrong, although sadly typical of people in this country. I have seen it on many threads in here as well, just because someone can't make there point clearly and supposedly intelligently doesn't make them an idiot or wrong.

12,000 people have taken the time to support this page, surely it would be better to try and help change there minds, find out what it is that is making them feel this way and do something constructive about it rather than just sticking them in a corner and telling them to be quiet.

[Phil D. Rolls]

12,000 people have taken the time to support this page, surely it would be better to try and help change there minds, find out what it is that is making them feel this way and do something constructive about it rather than just sticking them in a corner and telling them to be quiet.

12,000 people is a paltry amount when you think about it.

What upsets me about these people is their sense of values. By supporting Moat they are slapping anyone who has ever had to deal with unhappiness in the face. Lots of people have far greater things to deal with than he did.

These people get on with their lives and don't try to blame anyone else. They don't pick up shot gun and go around shooting people. In essence the supporters of Raoul are showing themselves up as people who won't take personal responsibility themselves.

It's always someone elses fault. School, police, psychiatrists, social services.

[marinello59]

Of course he should speak against it, that's his opinion and I think it's the right opinion. However trying to stop people speaking just because you think them stupider than you is simply wrong, although sadly typical of people in this country. I have seen it on many threads in here as well, just because someone can't make there point clearly and supposedly intelligently doesn't make them an idiot or wrong.

12,000 people have taken the time to support this page, surely it would be better to try and help change there minds, find out what it is that is making them feel this way and do something constructive about it rather than just sticking them in a corner and telling them to be quiet.

Hardly a major commitment is it? Click.

[steakbake]

12,000 people is a paltry amount when you think about it.

What upsets me about these people is their sense of values. By supporting Moat they are slapping anyone who has ever had to deal with unhappiness in the face. Lots of people have far greater things to deal with than he did.

These people get on with their lives and don't try to blame anyone else. They don't pick up shot gun and go around shooting people. In essence the supporters of Raoul are showing themselves up as people who won't take personal responsibility themselves.

It's always someone elses fault. School, police, psychiatrists, social services.

People (and I also include some of the people I work with now) expect to be rescued, often from storms they've brewed themselves.

[Twa Cairpets]

Of course he should speak against it, that's his opinion and I think it's the right opinion. However trying to stop people speaking just because you think them stupider than you is simply wrong, although sadly typical of people in this country. I have seen it on many threads in here as well, just because someone can't make there point clearly and supposedly intelligently doesn't make them an idiot or wrong.

12,000 people have taken the time to support this page, surely it would be better to try and help change there minds, find out what it is that is making them feel this way and do something constructive about it rather than just sticking them in a corner and telling them to be quiet.

If the "facebook supporters" were remotely interested in a dialogue or had the least willingness to change their minds, then yes, you'd be right. But they're not, so the condemnation of the page and the appeal to remove it is valid. 12,000 people have actively portrayed support for a cold-blooded murderer. That isn't a good thing.

There is also an issue with precedent setting. If its ok to voice support of this guy, is it equally ok to voice support of others criminals? Surely there is some level of personal and societal responsibility that goes with right of freedom of speech?

[Killiehibbie]

If the "facebook supporters" were remotely interested in a dialogue or had the least willingness to change their minds, then yes, you'd be right. But they're not, so the condemnation of the page and the appeal to remove it is valid. 12,000 people have actively portrayed support for a cold-blooded murderer. That isn't a good thing.

There is also an issue with precedent setting. If its ok to voice support of this guy, is it equally ok to voice support of others criminals? Surely there is some level of personal and societal responsibility that goes with right of freedom of speech?

Is it that much different to the fanmail, proposals of marriage and all that crap that gets sent to murderers in prison?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is it that much different to the fanmail, proposals of marriage and all that crap that gets sent to murderers in prison?

I was thinking about this last night. There must always have been crank letters sent to the police and the newspapers supporting people like Moat. I wonder if any of them keep an archive?

[matty_f]

12,000 people is a paltry amount when you think about it.

What upsets me about these people is their sense of values. By supporting Moat they are slapping anyone who has ever had to deal with unhappiness in the face. Lots of people have far greater things to deal with than he did.

These people get on with their lives and don't try to blame anyone else. They don't pick up shot gun and go around shooting people. In essence the supporters of Raoul are showing themselves up as people who won't take personal responsibility themselves.

It's always someone elses fault. School, police, psychiatrists, social services.

Probably opening up a can of worms here, and sounding like a right twat, but IMHO tv, cinema, and video games have a lot to answer for with this sort of thing. What kind of society breeds people that think they should be supporting Moat? It's ridiculous.

The thing is that so many people are desensitised to events like this. Here we've a guy who has shot at 3 people. Yet within hours there are jokes doing the rounds about it, and people are referencing Grand Theft Auto in them.

I'm not saying that GTA is the cause of Moat's behaviour, however it makes it seem 'ok' to some people because they're used to doing the same themselves in a video game. The moral compass is becoming more and more skewed, IMHO.

What Moat did was abhorrent, and anyone that views him as a hero has serious issues, IMHO.

[Ed De Gramo]

The original FB page has been reactivated.....:rolleyes:

[Hibs90]

Is it too early to post jokes?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is it too early to post jokes?

Well Raoul started it.

[steakbake]

Well Raoul started it.

That's not raoulmoatly funny.

[bighairyfaeleith]

If the "facebook supporters" were remotely interested in a dialogue or had the least willingness to change their minds, then yes, you'd be right. But they're not, so the condemnation of the page and the appeal to remove it is valid. 12,000 people have actively portrayed support for a cold-blooded murderer. That isn't a good thing.

There is also an issue with precedent setting. If its ok to voice support of this guy, is it equally ok to voice support of others criminals? Surely there is some level of personal and societal responsibility that goes with right of freedom of speech?

Your probably right, I just worry that we are too quickly condemning and marginalising a lot of people here.

I personally feel the best result would have been for thousands of people to have stopped supporting the page because they have been puersaded that actually it's not a cool thing to have done. Rather than just attempting to have the page taken down by facebook.

[Ed De Gramo]

Probably opening up a can of worms here, and sounding like a right twat, but IMHO tv, cinema, and video games have a lot to answer for with this sort of thing. What kind of society breeds people that think they should be supporting Moat? It's ridiculous.

The thing is that so many people are desensitised to events like this. Here we've a guy who has shot at 3 people. Yet within hours there are jokes doing the rounds about it, and people are referencing Grand Theft Auto in them.

I'm not saying that GTA is the cause of Moat's behaviour, however it makes it seem 'ok' to some people because they're used to doing the same themselves in a video game. The moral compass is becoming more and more skewed, IMHO.

What Moat did was abhorrent, and anyone that views him as a hero has serious issues, IMHO.

Can't blame computer games for that Matty....

Games are being made the scapegoat for pretty much every crime committed...

As for the jokes, they are (sadly) part and parcel of society nowadays. Before it was confirmed that Jacko had died, I'd received about 6 jokes....the Raoul Moat gags were a certainty.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Can't blame computer games for that Matty....

Games are being made the scapegoat for pretty much every crime committed...

As for the jokes, they are (sadly) part and parcel of society nowadays. Before it was confirmed that Jacko had died, I'd received about 6 jokes....the Raoul Moat gags were a certainty.

Raoul Moat was a joke. A man who tried to pretend he was Rambo, yet beat up women and children. A man who was so tough and brave he sent out messages telling the world what a terrible shame it was for him. A man who was quick enough to end other people's lives yet did not have the courage to shoot himself.

A man who claimed he begged for help yet didn't show up for the psychiatric appointment he was offered. A man who despite three months in prison wasn't able to find any help or support for his "madness".

Moat was a pathetic bully, I struggle to find a term for those who are looking up to him.

[Ed De Gramo]

Raoul Moat was a joke. A man who tried to pretend he was Rambo, yet beat up women and children. A man who was so tough and brave he sent out messages telling the world what a terrible shame it was for him. A man who was quick enough to end other people's lives yet did not have the courage to shoot himself.

A man who claimed he begged for help yet didn't show up for the psychiatric appointment he was offered. A man who despite three months in prison wasn't able to find any help or support for his "madness".

Moat was a pathetic bully, I struggle to find a term for those who are looking up to him.

you just need to see some of the comments on those fb groups.....neds/chavs :agree:

[Phil D. Rolls]

you just need to see some of the comments on those fb groups.....neds/chavs :agree:

Moat - the hero of the lazy, indolent and cowardly.

[matty_f]

Can't blame computer games for that Matty....

Games are being made the scapegoat for pretty much every crime committed...

As for the jokes, they are (sadly) part and parcel of society nowadays. Before it was confirmed that Jacko had died, I'd received about 6 jokes....the Raoul Moat gags were a certainty.

I'm not saying that games are to blame, but I think they contribute. Like I say, they desensitise and probably de-humanise things, so when someone like Moat (who will have existing problems that would likely have manifested regardless of social factors) flips, it's easier to commit the deeds.

[Houchy]

I'm not saying that games are to blame, but I think they contribute. Like I say, they desensitise and probably de-humanise things, so when someone like Moat (who will have existing problems that would likely have manifested regardless of social factors) flips, it's easier to commit the deeds.

I've just done a thesis on this Matty and my conclusion was that computer games and television violence don't contribute as much as people would think.
Take Japan, for example, which has the highest rate of television violence in the world but the lowest street violence.

[IWasThere2016]

I've just done a thesis on this Matty and my conclusion was that computer games and television violence don't contribute as much as people would think.
Take Japan, for example, which has the highest rate of television violence in the world but the lowest street violence.

H - Did you conclude that our wider social culture is more of an issue - broken homes, alcohol, drugs etc.?

[Betty Boop]

Tazer firm director has apparently killed himself after his firm had their licence revoked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11455884