Natural born leader

[SmokieJoe]

We have at present Hoggy as Club captain with Ian Murray as VC. I have nothing but admiration for Hoggy, he is a genuine 'goes in where others fear to tread' kind of guy, But is he the right man for the job of motivating and dictating to others or orchestrating minor tactical changes on the pitch during open play?

What do you think?

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not keen on him. I don't think he's good enough to make the 1st 11, and have never seen any motivational or leadership qualities in him.

[Petrie's Tache]

Agreed, probably wouldn't make my 11 never mind Captain.

[PaulSmith]

De Graaf could well be the new captain come Christmas IMO

[Albanian Hibs]

We have at present Hoggy as Club captain with Ian Murray as VC. I have nothing but admiration for Hoggy, he is a genuine 'goes in where others fear to tread' kind of guy, But is he the right man for the job of motivating and dictating to others or orchestrating minor tactical changes on the pitch during open play?

What do you think?

:hmmm:

[Albanian Hibs]

Agreed, probably wouldn't make my 11 never mind Captain.

That's my opinion too

[jonny]

I may be in the minority here but if fit I'd have him as 1 of the first names on the teamsheet. I think he'd benefit from an old head playing alongside him (see my post on the Lee Trundle thread - Gary Docherty would be good and he's free at the moment).
I think having him as captain is perhaps questionable, don't think Ian Murray suits the role any better though. Yogi highlighted that we were in need of players with some leadership qualities in an interview just at the end of the season - hopefully bring someone in to take over that role.

[Phil D. Rolls]

We have at present Hoggy as Club captain with Ian Murray as VC. I have nothing but admiration for Hoggy, he is a genuine 'goes in where others fear to tread' kind of guy, But is he the right man for the job of motivating and dictating to others or orchestrating minor tactical changes on the pitch during open play?

What do you think?

Don't think any of our captains have been much cop lately. Not since Jones, he was some guy and led by example in the CIS Final.

I think we really need a captain like Gary MacKay, a real club man, who despite his lack of playing success always played for the jersey.

What do you think?

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't think any of our captains have been much cop lately. Not since Jones, he was some guy and led by example in the CIS Final.

I think we really need a captain like Gary MacKay, a real club man, who despite his lack of playing success always played for the jersey.

What do you think?

I think you're having one of your Mr. Mischief days. :greengrin

[MSK]

I think you're having one of your Mr. Mischief days. :greengrinAnd he has already been told to let it go ..

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Don't think any of our captains have been much cop lately. Not since Jones, he was some guy and led by example in the CIS Final.

I think we really need a captain like Gary MacKay, a real club man, who despite his lack of playing success always played for the jersey.

What do you think?

Seemed to me in the past we appear to have used the captaincy to keep players at the club perhaps as a way of either bumping up their sell on fee or getting around wage structure constraints rather than going for the man with the best quality although maybe we just never had leaders at the club in recent times even when Murray was captain first time round I thought he was too quiet

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Seemed to me in the past we appear to have used the captaincy to keep players at the club perhaps as a way of either bumping up their sell on fee or getting around wage structure constraints rather than going for the man with the best quality although maybe we just never had leaders at the club in recent times even when Murray was captain first time round I thought he was too quiet

Oh my god a 1 sentence paragraph I blame the iPhone evenmore so because i couldn't scroll down to edit grrrrrr

[SmokieJoe]

Don't think any of our captains have been much cop lately. Not since Jones, he was some guy and led by example in the CIS Final.

I think we really need a captain like Gary MacKay, a real club man, who despite his lack of playing success always played for the jersey.

What do you think?

contradicting yourself there, despite lack of playing success always played for the jersey, if you have issue with me, please, get it out of your system old man, spit it out, not you're teeth mind

[Bostonhibby]

We have at present Hoggy as Club captain with Ian Murray as VC. I have nothing but admiration for Hoggy, he is a genuine 'goes in where others fear to tread' kind of guy, But is he the right man for the job of motivating and dictating to others or orchestrating minor tactical changes on the pitch during open play?

What do you think?

wasnt a bad defender 4 or so years ago and if he got back to that might get a game as part of moving us on from now, but if next season is likely to be more of the same as last :bye: Yogi may have done him no favours by making him captain. He was a decent team player and at time not a bad reader of the game, but captain of Hibs is another matter.

[Bostonhibby]

Don't think any of our captains have been much cop lately. Not since Jones, he was some guy and led by example in the CIS Final.

I think we really need a captain like Gary MacKay, a real club man, who despite his lack of playing success always played for the jersey.

What do you think?

are you subtley suggesting there is a Yammish undertone here?

[SmokieJoe]

are you subtley suggesting there is a Yammish undertone here?

I made the original thread, but it seems that Filled rolls has some kind of issue with me, as he has eluded to on other threads, some started by me some not. I have offered him to speak his mind, but either he has no issue or is constipaed and can't get it out. I'm relatively new to forums, i look at pie+bovril, bounce and here on .net, I had heard of people like Filled rolls, with mostly nothing positive to say, and tries to belittle others to try to put himself in a better light, such a sad individual really.

[HibbyAndy]

I like Hogg, Hes not as gash a some would make out, HOWEVER, id like to see Nid get the captains armband back.

[CropleyWasGod]

I made the original thread, but it seems that Filled rolls has some kind of issue with me, as he has eluded to on other threads, some started by me some not. I have offered him to speak his mind, but either he has no issue or is constipaed and can't get it out. I'm relatively new to forums, i look at pie+bovril, bounce and here on .net, I had heard of people like Filled rolls, with mostly nothing positive to say, and tries to belittle others to try to put himself in a better light, such a sad individual really.

<putting on Kofi Annan mask here>

A couple of facts:-

1. FR is a long-time poster here, and well known as one who posts with insight, wit and the occasional bit of bait.

2. you are relatively new here. The etiquette seems to be that one is "Yam until proven otherwise".

So, in my best Joe McCarthy voice, I have to ask the question.... "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Pink Party?".

[bingo70]

<putting on Kofi Annan mask here>

A couple of facts:-

1. FR is a long-time poster here, and well known as one who posts with insight, wit and the occasional bit of bait.

2. you are relatively new here. The etiquette seems to be that one is "Yam until proven otherwise".

So, in my best Joe McCarthy voice, I have to ask the question.... "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Pink Party?".

In fairness it is pretty pathetic when people are so paranoid about a jambo coming on under cover they treat every new member as one until proven otherwise, it is only a fitbaw messageboard afterall.

I've no idea if Smokiejoe is a hibby or not but i've no reason to doubt him so why not give him benefit of the doubt?

[CropleyWasGod]

In fairness it is pretty pathetic when people are so paranoid about a jambo coming on under cover they treat every new member as one until proven otherwise, it is only a fitbaw messageboard afterall.

I've no idea if Smokiejoe is a hibby or not but i've no reason to doubt him so why not give him benefit of the doubt?

lol.. I do, but natural justice has to be served :greengrin

[ionahibby]

Would be surprised to see hogg still captain next season , i suspect de graaf will have been promised the captains role as one of the conditions of signing for us imho.

[SmokieJoe]

<putting on Kofi Annan mask here>

A couple of facts:-

1. FR is a long-time poster here, and well known as one who posts with insight, wit and the occasional bit of bait.

2. you are relatively new here. The etiquette seems to be that one is "Yam until proven otherwise".

So, in my best Joe McCarthy voice, I have to ask the question.... "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Pink Party?".

Mine and my families support goes way beyond the generations that have stood on the terraces, my father reminds me from time to time about Roma and Barca coming to ER and getting stuffed. and that famous day in history.....when he had my brother on his shoulders( I was just over 1 year old). so other than name dropping, which would be unfair on my relatives, what else is there? i made the jaunt to liege when i was just a laddy, as i posted on 'you're best away day thread'. I live in Arbroath, and still play saturday amatuer footie so its not so easy to get to ER every other week, i could go to Gayfield park to watch Arbroath.....but they play in the same colours as the yams......(not gonna happen). so is there anything else? and for the record, after the ahem....friendly welcome, if i did not love hibs as i do, would i even have stayed and responded to your post?

[Bostonhibby]

<putting on Kofi Annan mask here>

A couple of facts:-

1. FR is a long-time poster here, and well known as one who posts with insight, wit and the occasional bit of bait.

2. you are relatively new here. The etiquette seems to be that one is "Yam until proven otherwise".

So, in my best Joe McCarthy voice, I have to ask the question.... "Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Pink Party?".

:agree: and I also agree with Bingo above as well. On point 1 above you are spot on and I don't see how anyone who looked into FR's posting "style" properly could come to any other conclusion, always happy to allow for anyone new to find their way round.......

[Expecting Rain]

Would you like my opinion on Hogg?

[SmokieJoe]

Would you like my opinion on Hogg?

Yes i would, pity the thread got sidelined, fire away:greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: and I also agree with Bingo above as well. On point 1 above you are spot on and I don't see how anyone who looked into FR's posting "style" properly could come to any other conclusion, always happy to allow for anyone new to find their way round.......

You are right, and I was in the wrong. Total paranoia about Yam infiltration, and new guys always get it - I know I did, and still do from time to time.

It's for the admins to sort these things out, and I apologise again for what happened.

[Baldy]

Would you like my opinion on Hogg?

I think we all know he's your favourite Hibs player of all time:greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

I like Hogg, Hes not as gash a some would make out, HOWEVER, id like to see Nid get the captains armband back.

So he's only a percentage of gash then Andy? :greengrin

25/50/75/99*

* delete as appropriate :wink:

[hibeemarley]

Would be surprised to see hogg still captain next season , i suspect de graaf will have been promised the captains role as one of the conditions of signing for us imho.

I was going to post something similar. Don't think it will be instant but potential for it to happen with time.

[seanraff07]

I'd say Murray and possibly De Graaf by what i've heard, would make better leaders than Hogg.

[Brizo]

Captains usually lead by either putting in consistent commanding performances or by having a big and vocal personality which inspires the team. Hogg doesnt do either of these things. Decent enough player but not captain material.

[RIP]

We have at present Hoggy as Club captain with Ian Murray as VC. I have nothing but admiration for Hoggy, he is a genuine 'goes in where others fear to tread' kind of guy, But is he the right man for the job of motivating and dictating to others or orchestrating minor tactical changes on the pitch during open play?

What do you think?

I think that targeting the present club captain (whoever he is) has been a bit of an obsession for some folk. But fair do's - the IM question doesn't go away.

The trouble is that Murray's seasons at Hibs may be numbered. If Callum Booth continues to progress at Brechin as he did at Arbroath I could see him playing LB before the March 2011.

Ian was about the slowest left back in the SPL last year and very easily turned. Most of the experienced managers targeted him with a pacy winger from about January onwards.

He's moving into coaching early I've noticed. I'm hoping Yogi can find a defensive midfield role for him next season - one that takes account of his big heart, 100% commitment, no-nonsense tackling and where his lack of pace will not be so exposed!

[Phil MaGlass]

Mibbe its just me and mibbe I am the only one, last season i did not think Hogg was captain material, he came in for a 5hit load of flack (myself included) but I have seen a steady progress in his taking command of things however tame it may seem, he had a couple of stinkers last season but was not worse than anyone else as alot of our players played under par at times last season. Could it be that he is growing into the captains role and we may very well see a different Hoggy this season?

[Dr Jimmy]

I think that targeting the present club captain (whoever he is) has been a bit of an obsession for some folk. But fair do's - the IM question doesn't go away.

The trouble is that Murray's seasons at Hibs may be numbered. If Callum Booth continues to progress at Brechin as he did at Arbroath I could see him playing LB before the March 2011.

Ian was about the slowest left back in the SPL last year and very easily turned. Most of the experienced managers targeted him with a pacy winger from about January onwards.

He's moving into coaching early I've noticed. I'm hoping Yogi can find a defensive midfield role for him next season - one that takes account of his big heart, 100% commitment, no-nonsense tackling and where his lack of pace will not be so exposed!

:top marks and I hope Murray can be played in the Midfield holding role as well.
Can you also elaborate on Booth's potential, as I have not seen him play.

[allezsauzee]

I think we need more than 1 leader on the pitch becauset too often last season Hoggy had far too much on his hands. An inexperienced right back that's actually an inexperienced midfielder, a central defensive partner who sometime was brilliant but sometimes was a total bombscare, no consistency in the GK position and little defensive cover from midfield. Hogg gets pelters for his weaknesses ie his distribution and relative smallness for a CH, but little credit for his strengths. His reading of the game is excellent and he's a great tackler and I think he does as well as anyone else in the team would as captain. I've no idea how people can possibly assume that De Graaf will be captain when all they'll have seen of him is a few clips on youtube.

[MSK]

I think we need more than 1 leader on the pitch becauset too often last season Hoggy had far too much on his hands. An inexperienced right back that's actually an inexperienced midfielder, a central defensive partner who sometime was brilliant but sometimes was a total bombscare, no consistency in the GK position and little defensive cover from midfield. Hogg gets pelters for his weaknesses ie his distribution and relative smallness for a CH, but little credit for his strengths. His reading of the game is excellent and he's a great tackler and I think he does as well as anyone else in the team would as captain. I've no idea how people can possibly assume that De Graaf will be captain when all they'll have seen of him is a few clips on youtube.I think its more to do with what he said in the press about "not being frightened to give slackers a rollicking" (words to that effect) than what he done on you-tube ..

[yekimevol]

I don’t that hogg is a captain and this has been proven in the second half of last season when the team was in decline. What should a captain be doing when the heads are going down ? picking them up by the scruff of there necks and telling them to get on with it (obviously in different ways for different as people react to thing in there own ways). Think of the great captains Roy keane, viera, tony adams none of these men would have stood for many of the performances that our lot turned out in the second half of the season. Now I’m not saying that we have a viera or adams in our squad but its something to aim for and the two candidates from this thread of graff and ian are the closest we have I would like Ian as captain and graff as vice.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd hope the players Yogi brings in, will be the kind who are leaders. IMHO we lack that type of characters in the team, and the more leaders, the better.

[seanraff07]

I think its more to do with what he said in the press about "not being frightened to give slackers a rollicking" (words to that effect) than what he done on you-tube ..

Yep, and also the fact that he used to be captain of NAC Breda before he joined us.

[allezsauzee]

Yep, and also the fact that he used to be captain of NAC Breda before he joined us.

Presumably if Hogg leaves to go to another club then he should be captain there then? Being able to shout at somebody doesnt actually make you a great leader. How many people in their jobs think that the best attribute of their colleague is an ability to shout at them?

[blackpoolhibs]

Presumably if Hogg leaves to go to another club then he should be captain there then? Being able to shout at somebody doesnt actually make you a great leader. How many people in their jobs think that the best attribute of their colleague is an ability to shout at them?

I agree, a captain should be someone who leads by example. Maybe thats why we were so bad after february? :wink: He's no leader, in fact imho he's not very good. I certainly hope he is replaced by someone better.

[seanraff07]

Presumably if Hogg leaves to go to another club then he should be captain there then? Being able to shout at somebody doesnt actually make you a great leader. How many people in their jobs think that the best attribute of their colleague is an ability to shout at them?

Well as captain you need to make yourself heard to the rest of the team. No point in being a captain if your just going to whisper encouragement or demands. Hogg has never been the best at making himself heard. I'm not sure if De Graaf is or not we'll see.

My only preference to having Hogg as captain is that considering he's playing at CB he can see the whole game infront of him and see every player infront of him apart from the keeper obviously. Whereas De Graaf can't and i always thought having a keeper or CB as captain is a good idea.

[allezsauzee]

I agree, a captain should be someone who leads by example. Maybe thats why we were so bad after february? :wink: He's no leader, in fact imho he's not very good. I certainly hope he is replaced by someone better.

So basically the whole team played badly because Hogg wasn't a good captain? :rolleyes:

[lucky]

Surely we should be looking for 11 leaders in our team.

Im not convinced that Hogg is a good enough player to be in the first 11. Ian Murray tries very hard but it is extremely limited. As For De Graff we will have to wait and see. At the moment he talks a good game hopefully he can play one. Remember Brian Kerr used to talk a lot in the press,

[allezsauzee]

Surely we should be looking for 11 leaders in our team.

Im not convinced that Hogg is a good enough player to be in the first 11. Ian Murray tries very hard but it is extremely limited. As For De Graff we will have to wait and see. At the moment he talks a good game hopefully he can play one. Remember Brian Kerr used to talk a lot in the press,

I agree that we should be looking for the whole team to take on responsiblity. Hopefully big Edwin will be a driving force next season, but he doesnt need to be captain to inspire the team

[blackpoolhibs]

So basically the whole team played badly because Hogg wasn't a good captain? :rolleyes:

Dont be daft. :confused: He's not very good, and along with more not very good players, and some kids, and a few out of form, thats what contributed to a poor run of form.

[hibee4life1983]

I'm going to get slated for this but I think stack should get the armband,big personality and big voice.

[seanraff07]

I'm going to get slated for this but I think stack should get the armband,big personality and big voice.

I agree with the reasons why he should be captain.

But will he play often enough? He seems pretty injury-prone and you never know he could be 3rd choice next season.

[3pm]

I think Hogg has been here a season too long.

[Andy74]

I wouldn't really have Hogg in the team but Hughes has just been saying again how well Hogg does all the things expected of the club captain.

I'm fairly sure none of us know how Hogg is as a Captain.

[silverhibee]

I wouldn't really have Hogg in the team but Hughes has just been saying again how well Hogg does all the things expected of the club captain.

I'm fairly sure none of us know how Hogg is as a Captain.


Players included.

[allezsauzee]

I wouldn't really have Hogg in the team but Hughes has just been saying again how well Hogg does all the things expected of the club captain.

I'm fairly sure none of us know how Hogg is as a Captain.

Who would you have as the right sided centre half out of the current group of players?

[SmokieJoe]

Who would you have as the right sided centre half out of the current group of players?

Bamba right side, Hanlon left side

[basehibby]

I'm not keen on him. I don't think he's good enough to make the 1st 11, and have never seen any motivational or leadership qualities in him.

I think this is a bit harsh - he's not a skillful player, but over the last few seasons, the back four has still more often than not had a much more solid look to it with Hoggy in it's ranks.
That in itself would suggest that up to this point in time he has been good enough to deserve a place in the starting eleven most weeks - whether he should be the club captain is another issue with Murray and possibly De Graff having a good shout for that honour.
Of course, that doesn't mean he can't be improved upon and I'd like to see him getting a lot more stiff competition for a starting berth in the coming season.

[SmokieJoe]

I think this is a bit harsh - he's not a skillful player, but over the last few seasons, the back four has still more often than not had a much more solid look to it with Hoggy in it's ranks.
That in itself would suggest that up to this point in time he has been good enough to deserve a place in the starting eleven most weeks - whether he should be the club captain is another issue with Murray and possibly De Graff having a good shout for that honour.
Of course, that doesn't mean he can't be improved upon and I'd like to see him getting a lot more stiff competition for a starting berth in the coming season.

My point is not whether he is good or not, i like Hoggy, as i stated in the original thread post, my question was, is he the right man for the job. another train of thought could be, is being captain holding Hoggy back? it has happened in other sports when newly named captains flounder in the role.

[Cameron1875]

My point is not whether he is good or not, i like Hoggy, as i stated in the original thread post, my question was, is he the right man for the job. another train of thought could be, is being captain holding Hoggy back? it has happened in other sports when newly named captains flounder in the role.

Thats an interesting point but i just dont think he has played any worse since being captain. He's always been pretty mince being honest. Sure he had a little decent spell where he won an award i think but Gary caldwell won scottish player of the year FFS:confused:

He would play through pain for us but that shouldnt disguise the fact he isnt very good.