Over paid, over hyped and underperforming. Thoughts?

[weecounty hibby]

Just listened to the England squad described as " the golden generation" "man for man better players than Germany" etc etc

When are they going to wake up and smell the coffee. The EPL is the most overrated league in world football. Once again they have been abysmal. Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard have been stinking. Today Terry made Hoggy look like Bobby Moore.

But still they will blame it on the ref, or probably, as has already started, the dodgy foriegn guy who is manager.

[Hibbie_Cameron]

Ill guarentee you that the lowest paid player in that England squad is probably on a similar amount to the highest paid German. Over paid trash imo

[Scorrie]

I have long maintained that the EPL is overated. Exciting mebbe but that's usually cos of rank poor defending. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and it's way better technically. The frightening thing is that German team were being primed for the 2014 World Cup. Potentially an outstanding team.

[Green_one]

There are some good players in that side, though not the World Class that many are badged with.

The reality is they do not work as a team and most individuals underperformed. Their tactics too were very poor. Capello went into a WC without even knowing who is first choice goalkeeper was and put all his attcking chips on Rooney - who definately has some problem (physical / mental?)

It has not really required a crystal ball to see they would not do well. The media have driven the optomism.

The Germans could be a major force in the future

[LancashireHibby]

The English club sides don't tend to do too badly in Europe though. But then that's because 'England Rooney' and 'England Lampard' appear to be lookalikes while the real things lie on a sunlounger somewhere, pissing their sides.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

[QUOTE=MerseyHibee;2502419]I have long maintained that the EPL is overated. Exciting mebbe but that's usually cos of rank poor defending. I watch a lot of Bundesliga and it's way better technically. The frightening thing is that German team were being primed for the 2014 World Cup. Potentially an outstanding team.[/QUOTE

Talksport said as much "but their (germany)problem is this is 2010" pride before a fall and all that

[greenlex]

England's problems are there are too many foreigners in the EPL. It is stifling the production of decent English players. They wont win the next world cup in Brazil and if they do'nt do something to eradicate the domestic stifling they wont win it in Engerland the time after should they get it.

Overhyped and overpaid IMO.

[Posh Swanny]

The EPL is far from overrated.

The English players within it on the other hand...

[Danderhall Hibs]

They do get paid a lot of money but how can that be one of the main reasons for failure? Do the Germans, Argentineans and Brazilians play for pennies?

Also heard folk on phone-ins say that the foreign players in the EPL carry the English players. Who carries Rooney at Man U? Who carries Gerrard at Liverpool? Who carries Lampard at Chelsea? If anything it’s these guys that are carrying their team, not the other way round.

Some folk just don’t think before they speak.

[Ryan91]

The reality the situation is that England have a team of players approaching the tail end of their careers, and that they are at best a mediocre side, really it took only 1 player to show how weak the English defence was, and that player was Mesut Oezil, he didn't get a goal or play a major part in every goal, but he skipped through the defence on several occasions only to be denied by a poor touch or a save from David James, who I think was by far the best England player.

[bingo70]

They do get paid a lot of money but how can that be one of the main reasons for failure? Do the Germans, Argentineans and Brazilians play for pennies?

Also heard folk on phone-ins say that the foreign players in the EPL carry the English players. Who carries Rooney at Man U? Who carries Gerrard at Liverpool? Who carries Lampard at Chelsea? If anything it’s these guys that are carrying their team, not the other way round.

Some folk just don’t think before they speak.

Gerrard hasn't been the same since Alonso left and Lampard is surrounded by world class johnny foreigners, Rooney i'll concede but IMO he clearly wasn't fit.

I'm not convinced it's about them being overpaid and the rest of it, i just think they're no as good as they think, lets face it, any team that brings on Emile Heskey is never going to win a world cup

[HenryMonk]

and this so called golden generation life span is coming to an end. and whos coming thru tobe next? nobody! england have no chance of doing anything in next 4 or 5 tournies:agree:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Gerrard hasn't been the same since Alonso left and Lampard is surrounded by world class johnny foreigners, Rooney i'll concede but IMO he clearly wasn't fit.

I'm not convinced it's about them being overpaid and the rest of it, i just think they're no as good as they think, lets face it, any team that brings on Emile Heskey is never going to win a world cup

Who are the world class players that surround Lampard at Chelsea? Drogba and ....?

[Danderhall Hibs]

and this so called golden generation life span is coming to an end. and whos coming thru tobe next? nobody! england have no chance of doing anything in next 4 or 5 tournies:agree:

Maybe a group of under-hyped and under-paid guys are waiting in the wings? :greengrin Worked for the Germans.

[lapsedhibee]

Who are the world class players that surround Lampard at Chelsea? Drogba and ....?

Joe Cole? Have heard his name mentioned as being capable of unlocking world-class defences and that.

[bingo70]

Who are the world class players that surround Lampard at Chelsea? Drogba and ....?

Essien, obi mikel, ballack, deco, malouda, carvalho, anelka and that other lad from ivory coast whos name i forget

[Danderhall Hibs]

Essien, obi mikel, ballack, deco, malouda, carvalho, anelka and that other lad from ivory coast whos name i forget

Suppose it depends on your definition of world-class.

[bingo70]

Suppose it depends on your definition of world-class.

aye and my definition is right, if you disagree, you're wrong

[HenryMonk]

Suppose it depends on your definition of world-class.

dont think anybody can argue against that list, really, come on:confused:

if you can, define your world class list?

[Gus]

I saw the title & thought it was gonna be about Hibs...........England again, ah :boo hoo:

[HenryMonk]

Maybe a group of under-hyped and under-paid guys are waiting in the wings? :greengrin Worked for the Germans.

yeah maybe, but englands U21's have just been beat by germanys U21's in final 4-0 recently.

so i doubt there is much coming thru.

brittish football is sadly lacking as a whole.

[IWasThere2016]

The fundamental similarity and difference between Engerland and us is

a) similarlity - neither have had a decent side since the 70s

b) difference - we know it, they don't.

[LancashireHibby]

a) similarlity - neither have had a decent side since the 70s

Not wishing to sound too defensive, but they did reach the semi finals of major tournaments in 1990 and 1996.

[Danderhall Hibs]

dont think anybody can argue against that list, really, come on:confused:

if you can, define your world class list?

Do you really think Chelsea have 8 world-class players in their team (excluding the English guys)?

I think world-class has to be one of the best 2 (maybe 3) players in his position in the world not just some punter that the guy that posted about can't even remember the name of!

[JimBHibees]

Not wishing to sound too defensive, but they did reach the semi finals of major tournaments in 1990 and 1996.

Good point in saying that in 1990 England's best game was ironically the game they lost where they were clearly the better team, they had carried a fair amount of luck in the Belguim and Cameroon games. They were good in Euro 96 however last night I was struggling to think of a decent English performance in any of the last few World cups . The only one I could think of was beating Argentina when Beckham scored a pen in 2002. The expectation is seriously out of kilter with actual performances IMO as in the main they have been pretty poor.

[bingo70]

Do you really think Chelsea have 8 world-class players in their team (excluding the English guys)?

I think world-class has to be one of the best 2 (maybe 3) players in his position in the world not just some punter that the guy that posted about can't even remember the name of!

Kalou!!! just remebered it! ok, i was maybe pushing it by putting him in there but in fairness i was trying to boost the numbers to add weight to my argument.

The rest of them are world class though, what players i mentioned would you say aren't world class? possibly obi mikel but for me the rest of them are definately world class

[Danderhall Hibs]

Good point in saying that in 1990 England's best game was ironically the game they lost where they were clearly the better team, they had carried a fair amount of luck in the Belguim and Cameroon games. They were good in Euro 96 however last night I was struggling to think of a decent English performance in any of the last few World cups . The only one I could think of was beating Argentina when Beckham scored a pen in 2002. The expectation is seriously out of kilter with actual performances IMO as in the main they have been pretty poor.

:agree: A reporter on TalkSport this morning said that they need to re-adjust their expectations as they are only on a par with Denmark, Paraguay, USA etc and not Germany, Argentina, Brazil.

[JimBHibees]

Do you really think Chelsea have 8 world-class players in their team (excluding the English guys)?

I think world-class has to be one of the best 2 (maybe 3) players in his position in the world not just some punter that the guy that posted about can't even remember the name of!

I would agree with that definition and IMO would exclude any English player from being genuinely World class. In the Slovenia game Lawrenson was calling Ashley Cole the best left back in the World, a truly ridiculous comment.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Kalou!!! just remebered it! ok, i was maybe pushing it by putting him in there but in fairness i was trying to boost the numbers to add weight to my argument.

The rest of them are world class though, what players i mentioned would you say aren't world class? possibly obi mikel but for me the rest of them are definately world class

Anelka, Malouda, Mikel, Deco and Ballack. Ballack once was and Deco used to be good as well.

Not sure about Carvalho being world-class either.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I would agree with that definition and IMO would exclude any English player from being genuinely World class. In the Slovenia game Lawrenson was calling Ashley Cole the best left back in the World, a truly ridiculous comment.

He used to be very good, not sure what's happened to him. Having said that who is a better left-back than him?

[bingo70]

He used to be very good, not sure what's happened to him. Having said that who is a better left-back than him?

Fabrice Evra and Joe Tortolano.

TBH as much as i cannae stand the English, Cole is definately up there as one of the best left backs in the world, still a complete knob end though

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Not overly sure that the EPL is over-rated as some of the football is technically superb. To me though, the E in EPL does not really stand for England as the teams now seem to be little more than franchises and that certainly seems to be the way that Man City are going. The top half of the league, and certainly the top six, could be played anywhere in the world for all the relevance that say Arsenal has to North London with no English players. In Germany, the top of the pyramid is the National Team. Not sure that is the same down South and certainly not the same up here. No coincidence that the teams up here which show most indifference to the National Team [ Rantic and Celgers] both want to be in the EPL.

[martinmcgurk]

The English club sides don't tend to do too badly in Europe though. But then that's because 'England Rooney' and 'England Lampard' appear to be lookalikes while the real things lie on a sunlounger somewhere, pissing their sides.

But English cub sides in European games are not made up of Englishmen. It is the foreigners in the English game that are technically good and make the teams as good as they are.

[LancashireHibby]

But English cub sides in European games are not made up of Englishmen. It is the foreigners in the English game that are technically good and make the teams as good as they are.

Very true, but the English players mentioned previously do seem to perform better for their clubs than their country, even when playing in the Champions League.

Mind you, as you say, is that a case of their standard being dragged up by the quality of the (foreign) players around them? I still don't think anyone can deny the class of the likes of Rooney, regardless of the players around him, but there definitely isn't something right about him in an England shirt.

Let's not forget that England didn't look too shabby during qualifying, though there again as mentioned on here I think they're more likely to be in a Croatia bracket than an Argentina bracket these days. Big changes required.

[Hibbyradge]

Ill guarentee you that the lowest paid player in that England squad is probably on a similar amount to the highest paid German. Over paid trash imo

How much would you like to bet? The Bundesliga pay huge wages too.

Regardless of that, the issue about the wages players are paid is an absolute red herring.

Do people really think that players like Gomes, Alves and Kaka of Brazil, Mascherano, Messi and Tevez and Nani, Pepe and Ronaldo are on peanuts?

So how come the money doesn't affect their attitude and performances?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Regardless of that, the issue about the wages players are paid is an absolute red herring.

Do people really think that players like Gomes, Alves and Kaka of Brazil, Mascherano, Messi and Tevez and Nani, Pepe and Ronaldo are on peanuts?

So how come the money doesn't affect their attitude and performances?

This is my question as well - be interesting to hear the answer.

[Posh Swanny]

and this so called golden generation life span is coming to an end. and whos coming thru tobe next? nobody! england have no chance of doing anything in next 4 or 5 tournies:agree:

Chris Smalling at the back. Jack Rodwell, Dan Gosling, Jack Willshire and Fabian Delph in midfield. Andy Carroll up front. All good, technical footballers, most of whom go about their business without the big time Charlie attitudes, while remaining in the shaddows of lesser-skilled (IMO) "stars" like Lampard and Gerrard. Unfortunately they'll no doubt they'll be hyped up to the max the moment they make an England squad and potentially go the same way as the rest of the egos. Add in players like Joe Hart (23), Micah Richards (22), James Milner (24), Ashley Young (24) and Wayne Rooney (24!!!) and things could still be rosey for England.

Having said that, I fully expect Lampard and Gerrard to remain on the international scene - like an OAP toddling along at 55mph in the outside lane of the M8 - for a year or two yet.

[heretoday]

British kids are fat, lazy wee creatures with too many computers and mobile phones. When they play footy they just want to lump it up to the big man because dribbling is too much hard work.

We need more barrios, beaches and grinding poverty in this country. Only that can produce teams to match the Argies and Brazilians.

[LancashireHibby]

British kids are fat, lazy wee creatures with too many computers and mobile phones. When they play footy they just want to lump it up to the big man because dribbling is too much hard work.

You could be on to something there, but more in terms of junior football and a 'winner at all costs' attitude rather than any emphasis on developing a young player's technical abilities.

[Posh Swanny]

You could be on to something there, but more in terms of junior football and a 'winner at all costs' attitude rather than any emphasis on developing a young player's technical abilities.

Big time.

Tackle-tackle-hassle-tackle-if-in-doubt-kick-it-out-tackle-hoof-hoof-110%-passion-pride-tackle-tackle. And five minutes of keepy-uppies at the end.

[LancashireHibby]

Big time.

Tackle-tackle-hassle-tackle-if-in-doubt-kick-it-out-tackle-hoof-hoof-110%-passion-pride-tackle-tackle. And five minutes of keepy-uppies at the end.

Five minutes? Are you mad? That's valuable hassling time!

[Hainan Hibs]

I think England just have to accept they are not in the top tier of World football.

They need to accept England is now a second round outfit with a QF appearance a real success. They are not as good as Argentina, Brazil, Germany and do not have a chance of winning the World Cup.

So much pressure is heaped on the manager and players who are doomed to fail before they start because of the unrealistic aims of the media and fans.

They should really take that total bumming they got from Germany as proof that they are at a similar level as teams like Mexico and South Korea ( who are probably far more technical than tEngland anyway) now and not up there with Brazil or Argentina.

[Dinkydoo]

The England team IMO are simply not as good as they or the whole country think's they are. They (the media and players) bang on about winning every tournament they take part in before it's even started and as a result, set themselve's up for major criticism when they are inevitably knocked out.



Cheerio :bye: :thumbsup:

[Dinkydoo]

This is my question as well - be interesting to hear the answer.


Presumibly because they aren't so full of themselves and believe the hype the media conveys every 4 years. :wink:

[Danderhall Hibs]

Presumibly because they aren't so full of themselves and believe the hype the media conveys every 4 years. :wink:

So it's nothing to do with being over-paid then?

BTW I thought "the media" were very wary of something like this happening this year.

[Posh Swanny]

A lot of "not as good as they think they are" and "need to be realistic with their expectations" wisdom going on, which is all well and good. But will you remember it all once the new season starts and Hibs are held to a 1-1 draw at Easter Road by an Inverness or a St Mirren? :devil:

[twiceinathens]

Overpaid? - yes but to be fair to English players that particular accusation can be levelled at countless other professional footballers.
Overhyped? - Absolutely. The reference to "World Class" players is used with reckless abandon with reference to players of reasonable but not outstanding ability. The prematch analysis on ITV to none of the German players being able to get a place in the England team was clearly exposed for the deluded nonsense which it clearly was.
Underperforming? In terms of how good they actually are as opposed to how good the media think they are I would suggest they were eliminated perhaps a round earlier than I might have expected. They are obviously a reasonable side - but no better than quarter finalists.

[HenryMonk]

Chris Smalling at the back. Jack Rodwell, Dan Gosling, Jack Willshire and Fabian Delph in midfield. Andy Carroll up front. All good, technical footballers, most of whom go about their business without the big time Charlie attitudes, while remaining in the shaddows of lesser-skilled (IMO) "stars" like Lampard and Gerrard. Unfortunately they'll no doubt they'll be hyped up to the max the moment they make an England squad and potentially go the same way as the rest of the egos. Add in players like Joe Hart (23), Micah Richards (22), James Milner (24), Ashley Young (24) and Wayne Rooney (24!!!) and things could still be rosey for England.

Having said that, I fully expect Lampard and Gerrard to remain on the international scene - like an OAP toddling along at 55mph in the outside lane of the M8 - for a year or two yet.

fair does in first 5 players mentioned, but they were still beaten 4-0 nil by germans U21's recently.

and as for last 5 players, take away rooney as i think he played so poorly because he was still injured.
milner i do rate highly and he will be big player for them in next 6 years.
joe hart, very good keeper, but look at what england done to green. to much pressure on english goalies at mo and he may not have broad enough shoulders to carry the pressure, time will tell tho.

this was englands so called golden generation that was expected to win a tourney but never. and really failed badly. who knows why really! as other posters have said do foreigners make these so called GG players play better within a team for there clubs.

[Posh Swanny]

fair does in first 5 players mentioned, but they were still beaten 4-0 nil by germans U21's recently.

and as for last 5 players, take away rooney as i think he played so poorly because he was still injured.
milner i do rate highly and he will be big player for them in next 6 years.
joe hart, very good keeper, but look at what england done to green. to much pressure on english goalies at mo and he may not have broad enough shoulders to carry the pressure, time will tell tho.

this was englands so called golden generation that was expected to win a tourney but never. and really failed badly. who knows why really! as other posters have said do foreigners make these so called GG players play better within a team for there clubs.

They may have been pumped by the German's but that was in the final so massive progress compared to previous years - though I think it was Ozil who ripped them apart too!

Joe Hart's a cocky wee ***** at the best of times so think he should be strong enough to cope with the poisoned chalice that is England's GK spot, I reckon he'll be England's number one for the next decade.

As for the "Golden Generation"? Couldn't cope with the pressure at several tournaments and technical ability was found wanting when the high-tempo, up and at them approach didn't work.

[Bristolhibby]

:agree: A reporter on TalkSport this morning said that they need to re-adjust their expectations as they are only on a par with Denmark, Paraguay, USA etc and not Germany, Argentina, Brazil.

True, it would be great if England dropped out of the top seed spot for qualifiers.

Would love to see them sharing a group with Germany or Spain.

BTW I realise that they qualified as second seed, however Croatia were the weakest of the top seeds and were on the slide.

J

[Hibs07p]

To be fair to the players, the media bums up those English players as playing for the best English teams in the best league in the world, but the media forget that it's the foreign players that also play for those teams that makes the EPL a more competitive league, not just the English players. The players can't be faulted for believing everything that they read or hear about themselves, it's only at International level they find out that they are not superstars, yet the media will always find a scapegoat, it was the managers fault, wrong players, injured players, refereeing decisions, etc.
The media want to have a reality check, look at their own input, and start telling it how it really is.
Instead, there will be a call for a new manager, an Englishman this time, which I believe they should, England will cruise through their European Qualifiers, they will get built up to be superstars again, and come 2012, another scapegoat will be found after they get emptied out at the 1/4 final stage. Ally's Tartan Army were taken in by all the hype in '78, we had a reality check that day, it's about time Engerland media and players do the same.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

They do get paid a lot of money but how can that be one of the main reasons for failure? Do the Germans, Argentineans and Brazilians play for pennies?

Also heard folk on phone-ins say that the foreign players in the EPL carry the English players. Who carries Rooney at Man U? Who carries Gerrard at Liverpool? Who carries Lampard at Chelsea? If anything it’s these guys that are carrying their team, not the other way round.

Some folk just don’t think before they speak.

I actually think there could be something in that - Gerrard minus Xabi Alonso this year has been disappointing. Is Lampard as good when he doesnt have Drogba to pass to, Ballack and Mikel protecting him and constantly feeding him the ball. Would Rooney be as good without Valencia/Giggs/Berbatov etc setting him up?

Im not saying they are carried, but there can be no doubt that the top English clubs have mostly top foreign players, and that is likely that this raises the level of England's top players - hence their different club form.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

fair does in first 5 players mentioned, but they were still beaten 4-0 nil by germans U21's recently.

and as for last 5 players, take away rooney as i think he played so poorly because he was still injured.
milner i do rate highly and he will be big player for them in next 6 years.
joe hart, very good keeper, but look at what england done to green. to much pressure on english goalies at mo and he may not have broad enough shoulders to carry the pressure, time will tell tho.

this was englands so called golden generation that was expected to win a tourney but never. and really failed badly. who knows why really! as other posters have said do foreigners make these so called GG players play better within a team for there clubs.

Wilshere looks the bees-knees form what ive seen, but of all those players, i cant think of one wh oozes technique and can put his foot on a ball and dictate the pace of a game - like Veron, Schweinsteiger, Xavi, Pirlo, or any other player of that ilk.

In my opinion, thats what you need, and england have not got any of these. Its no coincidence Capello tried to convince Scholes back, but even someone like Jamie Redknapp could do that - and dareisay, David Beckham could probably do it.

[JimBHibees]

He used to be very good, not sure what's happened to him. Having said that who is a better left-back than him?

Whoever Germany had playing for them yesterday. Bastos, wee Argentian, Evra, Solcido etc etc

[Danderhall Hibs]

Whoever Germany had playing for them yesterday. Bastos, wee Argentian, Evra, Solcido etc etc

Evra didn't show much at the WC either and the wee Argentinian - do you mean Heinze?

[Woody1985]

I actually think there could be something in that - Gerrard minus Xabi Alonso this year has been disappointing. Is Lampard as good when he doesnt have Drogba to pass to, Ballack and Mikel protecting him and constantly feeding him the ball. Would Rooney be as good without Valencia/Giggs/Berbatov etc setting him up?

Im not saying they are carried, but there can be no doubt that the top English clubs have mostly top foreign players, and that is likely that this raises the level of England's top players - hence their different club form.

Here's what I've said on another thread, and have said for a long time on English football.

I believe that the English players are good when playing the EPL. I think that the typical English style complements the foreign styles well which gives the teams a good mix. However, when they're all stuck together they're too similar and don't seem to have that change of pace or a great bit of skill which all teams need.


I know that you've not said they're passengers but many have. I'm not being funny here but to suggest some of the biggest club sides in the world whom regularly reach the latter stages of the CL carry passengers is just silly. I like to see England get pumped but I know that all of their players aren't **** or passengers for their clubs. Different style complement each other in any sport and I feel that's what happens in the EPL. The English media take that as their team is full of world beaters when in truth they'll struggle to win anything.

[JimBHibees]

Evra didn't show much at the WC either and the wee Argentinian - do you mean Heinze?

Heinze's not wee :greengrin Think it is Rodriguez think he looked very good in the Greek game.

[HenryMonk]

Here's what I've said on another thread, and have said for a long time on English football.

I believe that the English players are good when playing the EPL. I think that the typical English style complements the foreign styles well which gives the teams a good mix. However, when they're all stuck together they're too similar and don't seem to have that change of pace or a great bit of skill which all teams need.


I know that you've not said they're passengers but many have. I'm not being funny here but to suggest some of the biggest club sides in the world whom regularly reach the latter stages of the CL carry passengers is just silly. I like to see England get pumped but I know that all of their players aren't **** or passengers for their clubs. Different style complement each other in any sport and I feel that's what happens in the EPL. The English media take that as their team is full of world beaters when in truth they'll struggle to win anything.

correct woody:agree:

british football and im goona say all our 4nations teaching of football at grass roots is all wrong. we all need to change.

[renato]

Wilshere looks the bees-knees form what ive seen, but of all those players, i cant think of one wh oozes technique and can put his foot on a ball and dictate the pace of a game - like Veron, Schweinsteiger, Xavi, Pirlo, or any other player of that ilk.
In my opinion, thats what you need, and england have not got any of these. Its no coincidence Capello tried to convince Scholes back, but even someone like Jamie Redknapp could do that - and dareisay, David Beckham could probably do it.

Nail on the head for me. They seriously lack someone of genuine class who can dictate games. A deep lying playmaker is key to possession football and clearly possession is the key for most of the successful teams.

Veron
Xavi
Pirlo
Schweinsteiger
Van Bommel

England cannae keep a hold of the ball and this is their biggest downfall IMO. They've definitely got a mental block too when it comes to tournaments. Normally good in qualifying but always bottle it at the business end. Spain (pre Euro 2008) without the passing football.

:greengrin

[heretoday]

Here's what I've said on another thread, and have said for a long time on English football.

I believe that the English players are good when playing the EPL. I think that the typical English style complements the foreign styles well which gives the teams a good mix. However, when they're all stuck together they're too similar and don't seem to have that change of pace or a great bit of skill which all teams need.


I know that you've not said they're passengers but many have. I'm not being funny here but to suggest some of the biggest club sides in the world whom regularly reach the latter stages of the CL carry passengers is just silly. I like to see England get pumped but I know that all of their players aren't **** or passengers for their clubs. Different style complement each other in any sport and I feel that's what happens in the EPL. The English media take that as their team is full of world beaters when in truth they'll struggle to win anything.

Correct. It has to be said the EPL is the best and most entertaining league in the world because of the different styles. Ever watched Brazilian or Argentinian league footy? It sends you to sleep.

Problem is the FA give a man £6m and say "Get some chaps together and sort out the international side of things" and he's faced with a bunch of guys who can't play as a team.

[IWasThere2016]

Not wishing to sound too defensive, but they did reach the semi finals of major tournaments in 1990 and 1996.

They were lucky in 90, and at home in 96 .. I bet they told us they were gonna win every tournie every time since 66. It's getting on to 50 years ago .. they'll never do it again. Even if they'd topped their group I'd have backed Ghana - and that would have been funnier to see them lose :greengrin

They're mince :agree:

[Dinkydoo]

So it's nothing to do with being over-paid then?

BTW I thought "the media" were very wary of something like this happening this year.

Naw, didn't say that.

It's a culmination of being overpaid coupled with thier national outlook on the team: whether it be radio, commentators, the papers, common opinion or the tele. If being overpaid was simply enough to make this sorry excuse for a team perform so badly then why hasn't the same thing happend with Spain or Brazil?

They are better skill-wise but surely unless you are saving hundreds of people's lives or doing something spectactular could you justify getting paid that amount of money.

In my opinion (and it's just my opinion) the combination of being overpaid and the whole country saying "we're going to win the world cup/Euros"(*delete as applicable) each time thier involved in something is the main cause of thier failure.

They simply think they are better than they are, and who wouldn't.......with a whole country deluding themselves.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Naw, didn't say that.

It's a culmination of being overpaid coupled with thier national outlook on the team: whether it be radio, commentators, the papers, common opinion or the tele. If being overpaid was simply enough to make this sorry excuse for a team perform so badly then why hasn't the same thing happend with Spain or Brazil?

They are better skill-wise but surely unless you are saving hundreds of people's lives or doing something spectactular could you justify getting paid that amount of money.

In my opinion (and it's just my opinion) the combination of being overpaid and the whole country saying "we're going to win the world cup/Euros"(*delete as applicable) each time thier involved in something is the main cause of thier failure.

They simply think they are better than they are, and who wouldn't.......with a whole country deluding themselves.

I didn't hear that many say they were going to win it prior to the WC. Even the majority of the guys on TalsSport and 5Live and that were quite pessimistic.