David "spotty" Rowland

[greenginger]

Just been reading that the new Tory Party Chairman is a Mr David Rowland.

Could'nt believe it was the same ****bag that tried to sell us down the river twenty years ago.

Unless their are two David Rowlands with nicknames Spotty whose families were in scrap metal in London's east end they are the same person

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Must be the same guy. Gave them a £1m donation last year.

I think his wife who was on the Hibs board refused to sell her shares to the FTB. I take it they're not married anymore. :greengrin

[basehibby]

Just been reading that the new Tory Party Chairman is a Mr David Rowland.

Could'nt believe it was the same ****bag that tried to sell us down the river twenty years ago.

Unless their are two David Rowlands with nicknames Spotty whose families were in scrap metal in London's east end they are the same person

:grr::grr::grr: :chop::clapper::clapper::clapper:

[Hainan Hibs]

I didn't think my list of things to hate about the Tories could get any longer.

Oh wait, it just did:greengrin

[The Harp]

The Tories and David Rowland ... well suited to each other. Despise them both! :grr::grr::grr:

[weecounty hibby]

It should come as no surprise that a backstabbing, money grabbing, out for no one except himself kind of guy is a Tory.

Wonder if he'll try to merge the Tories and the Labour party?

[PaulSmith]

Just been reading that the new Tory Party Chairman is a Mr David Rowland.

Could'nt believe it was the same ****bag that tried to sell us down the river twenty years ago.

Unless their are two David Rowlands with nicknames Spotty whose families were in scrap metal in London's east end they are the same person

I'm sure the twat will 'welcome' some new publicity in the newspapers how the new Tory chairman doesn't give a toss for communities, social history nor the feelings of normal working class supporters

[Phil D. Rolls]

We should hate this guy at least as much as the FTB. He was the brains of the outfit - Mercer was only the tea boy.


I'm sure the twat will 'welcome' some new publicity in the newspapers how the new Tory chairman doesn't give a toss for communities, social history nor the feelings of normal working class supporters

Indeed, I don't think he cares much for the feelings of middle class supporters either.

[Bostonhibby]

Wonder if way back then the tie that bound Wally and this reptile was the Tory party, you can just see them hatching the plot from which they both stood to make some money and justifying under the banner of "enterprise" and profit, without even batting an eye lid at the social consequences. Rowland was the organ grinder for the deal and Mercer was the willing monkey. Skip forward to now and he seems the ideal man to chair the current tory party as it sets about bashing the rest of us whilst the Liberals look the other way in exchange for a few badges of office.

[PaulSmith]

Just on the Rowland thing again it's amazing to think that Duff actually bought Hibs with only £100k of his own money, the rest being paid back to Rowland (+interest) and 30% share of the club after the supporters bought 62% of the shares!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/chairman-reveals-how-he-won-control-of-hibs-1.600865

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/hibs-board-asks-shareholders-for-4-8m-to-buy-hotel-group-1.640100

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just on the Rowland thing again it's amazing to think that Duff actually bought Hibs with only £100k of his own money, the rest being paid back to Rowland (+interest) and 30% share of the club after the supporters bought 62% of the shares!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/chairman-reveals-how-he-won-control-of-hibs-1.600865

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/hibs-board-asks-shareholders-for-4-8m-to-buy-hotel-group-1.640100

A clear example of how supporters do not have the experience or brains to get involved in running football clubs. There's some big bad boys out there, and they play for keeps.

[DarlingtonHibee]

A clear example of how supporters do not have the experience or brains to get involved in running football clubs. There's some big bad boys out there, and they play for keeps.

Thank God for STF and Rod....

[basehibby]

Roland is total S.C.U.M. and I dodge the swear filter advisedly as there is simply no other word which adequately describes the reptile that he is.

He is worse than the FTB IMO because,as a major shareholder, he was theoretically "on our side" yet could not wait to stick the knife into ALL of us in pursuit of a fast buck.

I would be delighted if we could collectively somehow sabotage the public life of this reptillian S.C.U.M. - surely merely publicising his prominent role in the takeover debacle would be worthwhile in itself?!? It certainly displays in sharp relief his lack of any real morality and his willingness to trample all over the heritage and tradition of something much bigger than him as well as the feelings of many many thousands of people in the pursuit of a fast buck.

I always wondered what happened to Rowland and wondered how he got off so lightly whereas the FTB had to leave the country for his own safety - could there be a long awaited chance for revenge appearing on the horizon here???

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

Wonder if he'll try to merge the Tories and the Labour party?[/QUOTE]

Who would notice ??

[Baader]

Well matched. Loathe the pair of them with a passion.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Wonder if he'll try to merge the Tories and the Labour party?

Who would notice ??[/QUOTE]


exactly :agree:

[NAE NOOKIE]

Ye gods, if thats the type of person running the party who run the country lord help the lot of us.

Back to the 80s boys & girls where the people dont matter so long as the rich prosper & the economy is good.

:grr:

[sauzee1966]

Did he not get done for fraud. or maybe money laundering...or something like that a few years ago and lived in Monaco as a tax exile.





Just been reading that the new Tory Party Chairman is a Mr David Rowland.

Could'nt believe it was the same ****bag that tried to sell us down the river twenty years ago.

Unless their are two David Rowlands with nicknames Spotty whose families were in scrap metal in London's east end they are the same person

[Part/Time Supporter]

List of donors who dined with Call me Dave at number 10:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17512814


Dinner at Downing Street flat: 28 February 2011

David Rowland and his wife. In 2010, property multi-millionaire Mr Rowland turned down the job of Conservative Party co-treasurer after initially accepting the position. At the time he had been criticised over his former status as a tax exile. The 66-year-old became a millionaire at the age of 23 after forming his company Fordham shortly before. He does not court publicity. He and his wife previously had lunch at Chequers - the PM's official country residence - on 8 August 2010. David Rowland has given more than £4m to the Conservative Party and various Conservative Associations and MPs since June 2006.

[hibsdaft]

David Rowland is in the papers again today for links to Tory corruption.


David Rowland and his wife. In 2010, property multi-millionaire Mr Rowland turned down the job of Conservative Party co-treasurer after initially accepting the position. At the time he had been criticised over his former status as a tax exile. The 66-year-old became a millionaire at the age of 23 after forming his company Fordham shortly before. He does not court publicity. He and his wife previously had lunch at Chequers - the PM's official country residence - on 8 August 2010. David Rowland has given more than £4m to the Conservative Party and various Conservative Associations and MPs since June 2006.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17512814

[Malthibby]

There's nothing like a proper. No pretending, no mucking about.
Just a complete bawbag.
GG

[Hiber-nation]

Just on the Rowland thing again it's amazing to think that Duff actually bought Hibs with only £100k of his own money, the rest being paid back to Rowland (+interest) and 30% share of the club after the supporters bought 62% of the shares!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/chairman-reveals-how-he-won-control-of-hibs-1.600865

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/hibs-board-asks-shareholders-for-4-8m-to-buy-hotel-group-1.640100

Its horrible to read all that stuff again, Inoco, Highmace, the Tavern in the ***** Town etc etc, everything just spiralling out of control....

Maybe things aren't so bad these days!

[Pretty Boy]

There's nothing like a proper. No pretending, no mucking about.
Just a complete bawbag.
GG

This.

A man with absolutely no redeeming features.

A total and utter Juan Kerr of the highest order.

[Kaiser1962]

Just on the Rowland thing again it's amazing to think that Duff actually bought Hibs with only £100k of his own money, the rest being paid back to Rowland (+interest) and 30% share of the club after the supporters bought 62% of the shares!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/chairman-reveals-how-he-won-control-of-hibs-1.600865

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/hibs-board-asks-shareholders-for-4-8m-to-buy-hotel-group-1.640100


Not only did he try to put us out of business he then tried to hold up the rescue package with extortionate demands for his shareholding. Bereft of any shred of decency and we can thank God that his wife had already saw through him.

[mca]

Since the Mercer song is soooo old ... and he died and naebody kens who he is now and its now begining to offend the majority.. :not worth


can we not just change it to this tory banker instead ??? - the guys still alive - so we not actually offending anyone really :aok:

[Seanair]

Just been reading that the new Tory Party Chairman is a Mr David Rowland.

Could'nt believe it was the same ****bag that tried to sell us down the river twenty years ago.

Unless their are two David Rowlands with nicknames Spotty whose families were in scrap metal in London's east end they are the same person


Are you sure that Rowland is "the new Tory Party Chairman"? He was appointed Treasurer in 2010, but had to resign shortly after because of his dodgy past (as any Hibby could have told them).
Therefore I don't think (or can't believe) that even the Tories could appoint this chancer--too much baggage.
There should be a plaque installed at ER for MRS Rowland--brave woman!

[One Day Soon]

Wonder if he'll try to merge the Tories and the Labour party?

Who would notice ??[/QUOTE]

Well, pensioners for a start. All the people benefitting from the National Minimum Wage? Everyone who gets to vote in Scottish Parliament elections. How about all the people who got modern apprenticeships under Labour? Maybe all the kids in new schools? What about patients being treated in all the new hospitals?

Why not take your trite wee comments about 'Who would notice??' and shoving it?

[One Day Soon]

Who would notice ??


exactly :agree:[/QUOTE]

It's Alex Salmond who's cosying up to Rupert now mate. That's why Mr Murdoch thinks he's the best politician in Britain.

[Purple & Green]

He is worse than the FTB

Correct.

Thread resurrection alert.

I love the way people reply to two year posts without realising :)

[ano hibby]

Just on the Rowland thing again it's amazing to think that Duff actually bought Hibs with only £100k of his own money, the rest being paid back to Rowland (+interest) and 30% share of the club after the supporters bought 62% of the shares!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/chairman-reveals-how-he-won-control-of-hibs-1.600865

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/hibs-board-asks-shareholders-for-4-8m-to-buy-hotel-group-1.640100

More than a little echo of events 50 miles west of here. "financial entrepreneur" "Monaco" etc. Mind you not sure CW is a future Tory Party Treasurer.

[Twiglet]

Are you sure that Rowland is "the new Tory Party Chairman"? He was appointed Treasurer in 2010, but had to resign shortly after because of his dodgy past (as any Hibby could have told them).
Therefore I don't think (or can't believe) that even the Tories could appoint this chancer--too much baggage.
There should be a plaque installed at ER for MRS Rowland--brave woman!

Check out the date of the original post.

[Seanair]

Check out the date of the original post.

Silly me--thanks. Didn't know threads from previous years could be carried forward like this.

Anyway he's still a (use own terms of abuse) and his wife did Hibs a favour.

[Big Ed]

List of donors who dined with Call me Dave at number 10:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17512814

There is something utterly nauseating about the Prime Minister of this country, inviting this World Class **** to a private dinner.

[bawheid]

There is something utterly nauseating about the Prime Minister of this country, inviting this World Class **** to a private dinner.

Could have saved a few seconds typing and just halted your sentence after the word "country".

[lyonhibs]

This is all pish in the wind - Prime Ministers/Cabinet minsters of all political colours have long had cosy dinners with rich mates who also happen to give their parties massive swedges of cash.

It's the whole system of lobbying, and the amounts involved, that we need changed, not some massively expensive police investigation that will exclusively reveal that a politican had some rich, influential friends over for a chinwag.

We can hardly stop anyone in the country having a dinner party with whomever they want, it's whether they have paid money specifically to get that access, and whether policies of this country are actually influenced by what they talk about over champagne and caviar, or whether the PM just goes ""Hmmm, yes interesting Barnaby" and pays no real attention.

Call Me Dave says everyone he had over was already close mates he'd known for years - I have no idea whether to believe him or not, but this "Nudge nudge, see you at Chequers old boy" culture that pervades British politics needs to end, for many, many more reasons than this.

[HKhibby]

There is something utterly nauseating about the Prime Minister of this country, inviting this World Class **** to a private dinner.

Not done anything wrong or illegal!, who ever wants to give large/small amounts of money to a political party is up to them, doesnt neccessarily make everything wrong or corrupt....but it certainly did when the likes of Blair and Brown, who have wrecked the U.K!, did the small thing of the cash for honours thing!...but then again that was probably ok...they were Labour! and one was Scottish!

[RyeSloan]

This is all pish in the wind - Prime Ministers/Cabinet minsters of all political colours have long had cosy dinners with rich mates who also happen to give their parties massive swedges of cash.

It's the whole system of lobbying, and the amounts involved, that we need changed, not some massively expensive police investigation that will exclusively reveal that a politican had some rich, influential friends over for a chinwag.

We can hardly stop anyone in the country having a dinner party with whomever they want, it's whether they have paid money specifically to get that access, and whether policies of this country are actually influenced by what they talk about over champagne and caviar, or whether the PM just goes ""Hmmm, yes interesting Barnaby" and pays no real attention.

Call Me Dave says everyone he had over was already close mates he'd known for years - I have no idea whether to believe him or not, but this "Nudge nudge, see you at Chequers old boy" culture that pervades British politics needs to end, for many, many more reasons than this.


Is it not the simple fact that if you contribute signficant sums to any organisation you would normally receive some sort of influence or access in return....I'm not sure why we consider political parties any different, nor indeed what would be so terribly wrong with the leader of any party having dinner with his largest donors.

[HKhibby]

Who would notice ??

Well, pensioners for a start. All the people benefitting from the National Minimum Wage? Everyone who gets to vote in Scottish Parliament elections. How about all the people who got modern apprenticeships under Labour? Maybe all the kids in new schools? What about patients being treated in all the new hospitals?

Why not take your trite wee comments about 'Who would notice??' and shoving it?[/QUOTE]

But they were fantastic great prosperous years all the same from 1997-2010 under "New Labour" were they?...Thats why everybody is paying for it now throughout the UK! in some shape or form.

Glad about that in a way though! because for years under "New Labour" small businesses bore the brunt of the wonderful "New Labour" Stealth Taxes and lunacy employment laws that they adopted coming out of the EU!
Apprenticeships? yes they like to take the accolades about that wont they, but they were introduced about year or so before "New Labour"!
National Minimum Wage?..seem to remember people laughing at that...saying i wouldnt get out of bed for that!...but they wouldnt would they? because they were getting top up fees and benefits for sitting around doing Nothing!...but then came along the good old East Europeans!...who actually do it for less than that, so what minimum wage now?
New Hospitals and Schools?, well they can all be built with endless tax payers money and stealth taxes!...but when the money dries up who pays for them? and the endless league tables stats?...and the endless civil servants paid very generously for doing nothing most of the time with 5/6 weeks holiday etc.. etc.. a year, all in the name of supposedly creating employment?, oh and not too mention these schools and hospitals are now full of east europeans! who have never paid a penny in tax into the UK! but get free hospital treatment and education and benefits from the State!
Scottish Psrliament? yes everyone else in the UK had to pay towards that too!...but why not? it was other peoples money! and it was "New Labour"!

So there we have it, a brief but slightly long winded description of the good old "New Labour/Old Labour"...same old Labour Years!, at least the present UK Government came along just in time!

Yes i live outside the UK, and very happily thanks, and will hopefully never live there again!

[CropleyWasGod]

Well, pensioners for a start. All the people benefitting from the National Minimum Wage? Everyone who gets to vote in Scottish Parliament elections. How about all the people who got modern apprenticeships under Labour? Maybe all the kids in new schools? What about patients being treated in all the new hospitals?

Why not take your trite wee comments about 'Who would notice??' and shoving it?

But they were fantastic great prosperous years all the same from 1997-2010 under "New Labour" were they?...Thats why everybody is paying for it now throughout the UK! in some shape or form.

Glad about that in a way though! because for years under "New Labour" small businesses bore the brunt of the wonderful "New Labour" Stealth Taxes and lunacy employment laws that they adopted coming out of the EU!
Apprenticeships? yes they like to take the accolades about that wont they, but they were introduced about year or so before "New Labour"!
National Minimum Wage?..seem to remember people laughing at that...saying i wouldnt get out of bed for that!...but they wouldnt would they? because they were getting top up fees and benefits for sitting around doing Nothing!...but then came along the good old East Europeans!...who actually do it for less than that, so what minimum wage now?
New Hospitals and Schools?, well they can all be built with endless tax payers money and stealth taxes!...but when the money dries up who pays for them? and the endless league tables stats?...and the endless civil servants paid very generously for doing nothing most of the time with 5/6 weeks holiday etc.. etc.. a year, all in the name of supposedly creating employment?, oh and not too mention these schools and hospitals are now full of east europeans! who have never paid a penny in tax into the UK! but get free hospital treatment and education and benefits from the State!
Scottish Psrliament? yes everyone else in the UK had to pay towards that too!...but why not? it was other peoples money! and it was "New Labour"!

So there we have it, a brief but slightly long winded description of the good old "New Labour/Old Labour"...same old Labour Years!, at least the present UK Government came along just in time!

Yes i live outside the UK, and very happily thanks, and will hopefully never live there again![/QUOTE]



Thanks for that, Spotty. :wink:

ps how's the wife?

[CropleyWasGod]

Not done anything wrong or illegal!, who ever wants to give large/small amounts of money to a political party is up to them, doesnt neccessarily make everything wrong or corrupt....but it certainly did when the likes of Blair and Brown, who have wrecked the U.K!, did the small thing of the cash for honours thing!...but then again that was probably ok...they were Labour! and one was Scottish!

Two, Shirley.

[easty]

Not done anything wrong or illegal!, who ever wants to give large/small amounts of money to a political party is up to them, doesnt neccessarily make everything wrong or corrupt....but it certainly did when the likes of Blair and Brown, who have wrecked the U.K!, did the small thing of the cash for honours thing!...but then again that was probably ok...they were Labour! and one was Scottish!

HK, you use too many exclamation marks, gies me a headache.

And you're going to have to stop trying to mask this love you clearly have for all things Labour...

[Big Ed]

Not done anything wrong or illegal!, who ever wants to give large/small amounts of money to a political party is up to them, doesnt neccessarily make everything wrong or corrupt....but it certainly did when the likes of Blair and Brown, who have wrecked the U.K!, did the small thing of the cash for honours thing!...but then again that was probably ok...they were Labour! and one was Scottish!

I didn't say anything about it being dishonest or corrupt. I didn't mention the Conservative Party. I was referring to David Rowland: the man who tried to sell his majority shares in Hibs to one A. Wallace Mercer in June 1990. You may have heard something about that.
That makes him a world class ****!

[Hibernia&Alba]

A fud in a party of fuds. Lowest of the low.

[Jack]

There is something utterly nauseating about the Prime Minister of this country, inviting this World Class **** to a private dinner.

They're all in this together ;-)

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don't agree with a word of your post, hk hibby, but this is the football section of the forum, so I won't enter a long drawn out debate. Suffice to say that, whilst I disagreed with many Labour policies between 1997 and 2010, my criticisms were of the rightward shift of the party under Blair. They did some excellent work regarding the NHS and education - those markers of a civilised society.

One area where they got it massively wrong was by not putting enough regulations on the city of London. Regulations, the evil of 'red tape' as the Tories love repeating. Well the 'light touch' regulation that New Labour boasted about contributed enormously to the biggest financial crisis since 1929. By giving the bankers a free hand they almost destroyed the country and then asked the poorest, those who didn't cause the crisis, to pay it back via massive public spending cuts.

The failings of Labour under Blair and Brown were, IMO, their adoption of the neo-liberal and neo-conservative world view in economic and foreign affairs. Market forces must never be restricted. Aye right. Labour did some fine things in their thirteen years, and give me New Labour over the Tories any day. But this country needs a strong democratic socialist party, which the the Labour Party no longer is. Millions of people, those who believe the state has a key role to play in society, be they Keyensians or state planners, are disenfranchised by the big business supply side consensus of all the major parties. We mustn't upset Rupert Murdoch or the CBI. Money is power and those people can make like difficult, unlike the millions of working men and women who are powerless to the manoeuvreings of the stock market. The imbalance between free markets and social justice wasn't addressed nearly enough by New Labour. There are values of humanity and fairness that go way beyond contracts and financial exchange; values that New Labour too often only paid lip service to. Bring back Keir Hardie's Labour vision. We need real trades unions again and Labour Party that isn't just another representative of global capital.

Rant over

:soapbox:

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

Who would notice ??

Well, pensioners for a start. All the people benefitting from the National Minimum Wage? Everyone who gets to vote in Scottish Parliament elections. How about all the people who got modern apprenticeships under Labour? Maybe all the kids in new schools? What about patients being treated in all the new hospitals?

Why not take your trite wee comments about 'Who would notice??' and shoving it?[/QUOTE]

:faf:

[One Day Soon]

Well, pensioners for a start. All the people benefitting from the National Minimum Wage? Everyone who gets to vote in Scottish Parliament elections. How about all the people who got modern apprenticeships under Labour? Maybe all the kids in new schools? What about patients being treated in all the new hospitals?

Why not take your trite wee comments about 'Who would notice??' and shoving it?

:faf:[/QUOTE]

Well done. That's exactly your level. Or perhaps even punching slightly above it.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I don't agree with a word of your post, hk hibby, but this is the football section of the forum, so I won't enter a long drawn out debate. Suffice to say that, whilst I disagreed with many Labour policies between 1997 and 2010, my criticisms were of the rightward shift of the party under Blair. They did some excellent work regarding the NHS and education - those markers of a civilised society.

One area where they got it massively wrong was by not putting enough regulations on the city of London. Regulations, the evil of 'red tape' as the Tories love repeating. Well the 'light touch' regulation that New Labour boasted about contributed enormously to the biggest financial crisis since 1929. By giving the bankers a free hand they almost destroyed the country and then asked the poorest, those who didn't cause the crisis, to pay it back via massive public spending cuts.

The failings of Labour under Blair and Brown were, IMO, their adoption of the neo-liberal and neo-conservative world view in economic and foreign affairs. Market forces must never be restricted. Aye right. Labour did some fine things in their thirteen years, and give me New Labour over the Tories any day. But this country needs a strong democratic socialist party, which the the Labour Party no longer is. Millions of people, those who believe the state has a key role to play in society, be they Keyensians or state planners, are disenfranchised by the big business supply side consensus of all the major parties. We mustn't upset Rupert Murdoch or the CBI. Money is power and those people can make like difficult, unlike the millions of working men and women who are powerless to the manoeuvreings of the stock market. The imbalance between free markets and social justice wasn't addressed nearly enough by New Labour. There are values of humanity and fairness that go way beyond contracts and financial exchange; values that New Labour too often only paid lip service to. Bring back Keir Hardie's Labour vision. We need real trades unions again and Labour Party that isn't just another representative of global capital.

Rant over

:soapbox:

I agree totally :agree:

[BonnieFitbaTeam]

:faf:

Well done. That's exactly your level. Or perhaps even punching slightly above it.[/QUOTE]


Aye, very good. I appreciate that the laughing smiley wasn't particularly mature, but you're hardly in a position to criticise. You're own original post hardly covered you in glory.

[Eyrie]

:hijack:

I thought this was the Main Football Forum, not The Holy Ground?

[ginger_rice]

I don't agree with a word of your post, hk hibby, but this is the football section of the forum, so I won't enter a long drawn out debate. Suffice to say that, whilst I disagreed with many Labour policies between 1997 and 2010, my criticisms were of the rightward shift of the party under Blair. They did some excellent work regarding the NHS and education - those markers of a civilised society.

One area where they got it massively wrong was by not putting enough regulations on the city of London. Regulations, the evil of 'red tape' as the Tories love repeating. Well the 'light touch' regulation that New Labour boasted about contributed enormously to the biggest financial crisis since 1929. By giving the bankers a free hand they almost destroyed the country and then asked the poorest, those who didn't cause the crisis, to pay it back via massive public spending cuts.

The failings of Labour under Blair and Brown were, IMO, their adoption of the neo-liberal and neo-conservative world view in economic and foreign affairs. Market forces must never be restricted. Aye right. Labour did some fine things in their thirteen years, and give me New Labour over the Tories any day. But this country needs a strong democratic socialist party, which the the Labour Party no longer is. Millions of people, those who believe the state has a key role to play in society, be they Keyensians or state planners, are disenfranchised by the big business supply side consensus of all the major parties. We mustn't upset Rupert Murdoch or the CBI. Money is power and those people can make like difficult, unlike the millions of working men and women who are powerless to the manoeuvreings of the stock market. The imbalance between free markets and social justice wasn't addressed nearly enough by New Labour. There are values of humanity and fairness that go way beyond contracts and financial exchange; values that New Labour too often only paid lip service to. Bring back Keir Hardie's Labour vision. We need real trades unions again and Labour Party that isn't just another representative of global capital.

Rant over

:soapbox:

:top marks

[Dashing Bob S]

Whilst I appreciate that some of the criticism of Rowland is valid, I wish him well in his comeback.

And Geno and Come On Eileen were great tunes.