Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constitiuent Country?

[Stuart Dutton]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

[steviehfc]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?In a word yes i do dislike the English, and if that makes me a bigot to people like you then so be it. There is no end to their arrogance and talk of being better than everyone else (even though they have done bugger all to prove that point). I for one will be delighted when they are knocked out, unfortunately though the English media will still talk non-stop about England with hardly a mention of the countries that ARE still competing in the competition.
SCOTTISH AND PROUD OF IT.

[PISTOL1875]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Because I am Scottish and our biggest rivals are England.. Also , English commentators are a pain in the backside.. No matter who is playing in the WC , we always seem to be talking about England...

[H18sry]

Its called rivalry

[Barney McGrew]

Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating

Being Scottish, I support Scotland :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Very poor attempt at fishing methinks!

[Steve-O]

Oh, this is a new idea for a thread...:bye:

[Spike Mandela]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Don't know if you are English or not but I am Scottish and support Scotland. As far as I know there are no pkans to have a British team.

Just curious but expanding your argument I take it if Germany play Brazil you always support germany because they are European like yourself?

[ScottB]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

How is it bigoted exactly?

I hate this recent development in English attitude, 'if you don't back us your a racist.'

Why should I back England? I'm not English, I feel no attachment to them whatsoever. Take their media out of the equation and I'd be utterly indifferent. Should we all start backing Hearts because we are both from Edinburgh then? Surely the English should back Germany as they share a common ancestory and are both European?

That's what really annoys me, we can't say word one against England, yet the TV is full of 'anybody but Germany' related chat.

I'm watching the tournament for enjoyment, keeping an eye out for the US as they have a Scot in their ranks, Spain and Argentina because I like how they play and Ivory Coast for Bamba. But of course apparently that makes me an English hating bigot doesn't it?

[MrSmith]

Very simple:

I support Scotland NOT England - couldn't care less what happens to them!!!

And in return....look at the anti-Scottish agenda shown by the English electorate and their parties...hence the BBC/SKY/STV only including the 'major parties' during the so we are lead to believe...English only general election.

If you want to talk about bigotry and racism then take a good look at yourself and the superior neighbors from dan souf!!!

Anti-English agenda?? my arse!

[Hibernian Verse]

I don't support Hearts when they play so why should I support England?

'Bigoted', what the ****?

[Removed]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

I wasn't born in England, neither of my parents are English so am baffled why I should support them in a sporting context just because we are part of a British Union.

Just because I'd rather see ABE win the World Cup doesn't make me bigoted.

The only time I would support England is if it helped Scotland, exactly the same way that I feel about the yams and Hibs.

I work with English folk, I am friends with English folk, I even married one (so why would I do that if I was a bigoted against them?) but to support them in a fitba match. Nae danger. I'm surprised that anyone in this day and age even has to ask why.

[DC_Hibs]

Not content with slavering nonsense on the bounce at every opportunity..........

This is the guy talking about making up football strips for a tyneside hibs supporters club team.
Anyone know a 2 a side league (assuming he got a 2nd member)
Don't go ordering buses for next season StuPot.

[EskbankHibby]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Who said i did?

Tell you what's bigoted, the assumption that every Scottish person hates the English (which by the way is very different to wanting to see the English football team horsed at every opportunity).

[blackpoolhibs]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Bigotted my arse. :confused: I suppose you will be supporting Sunderland in the cup when Newcastle are knocked out. :greengrin

[MSK]

Not content with slavering nonsense on the bounce at every opportunity..........

This is the guy talking about making up football strips for a tyneside hibs supporters club team.
Anyone know a 2 a side league (assuming he got a 2nd member)
Don't go ordering buses for next season StuPot.I dont think that is very fair mate..what he posts overby has nothing to do with hibs.net..cut him a bit of slack eh ..:rolleyes:

[Stuart Dutton]

Who said i did?

Tell you what's bigoted, the assumption that every Scottish person hates the English (which by the way is very different to wanting to see the English football team horsed at every opportunity).

I'm simply directing it towards people that feel that way, so if you don't then don't post.. I am Scottish for you information..

[ArabHibee]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?


I'd be :boo hoo:too if I had been born in Engurland. I feel your pain mate, I really do.

[Stuart Dutton]

Not content with slavering nonsense on the bounce at every opportunity..........

This is the guy talking about making up football strips for a tyneside hibs supporters club team.
Anyone know a 2 a side league (assuming he got a 2nd member)
Don't go ordering buses for next season StuPot.

Yes, what's wrong with that?

It would've been possible if more people were willing to commit.
I'm trying to help the Supporters by offering a Tyneside division Supporters Club, what do you do to support the team?

[Diclonius]

I am proud to be Scottish and British much in the same way as I am proud to be a Hibs fan and from Edinburgh.

Hope they crash and burn. Just because you like something doesn't mean you have to like everything from it. :agree:

[Kojock]

We are all part of the European Union so why don't the English support the Germans So going by your argument the English must be racist as well.

[Stuart Dutton]

Fair enough if you look at is as rivalry, but I feel it shouldn't be as hostile a rivalry as how it appears with many supporters. I don't see how Wales and Northern Ireland don't get the same treatment?

This thread is out of interest, I wanted to see what people's thoughts were behind the common arguments/'opinions' that are posted/said wherever, be it on the internet, radio, etc.

[Removed]

I'm simply directing it towards people that feel that way, so if you don't then don't post.. I am Scottish for you information..

Were you born and brought up in Scotland or just lucky your parents were?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Fair enough if you look at is as rivalry, but I feel it shouldn't be as hostile a rivalry as how it appears with many supporters. I don't see how Wales and Northern Ireland don't get the same treatment?

This thread is out of interest, I wanted to see what people's thoughts were behind the common arguments/'opinions' that are posted/said wherever, be it on the internet, radio, etc.

Is it because they are more likeable?

[H18sry]

Fair enough if you look at is as rivalry, but I feel it shouldn't be as hostile a rivalry as how it appears with many supporters. I don't see how Wales and Northern Ireland don't get the same treatment?
This thread is out of interest, I wanted to see what people's thoughts were behind the common arguments/'opinions' that are posted/said wherever, be it on the internet, radio, etc.

Because Wales and Ireland are celt's like us Scot's :bye:

[Big_D]

I don't support any of them , international football doesn't interest me much .

[ionahibby]

Fair enough if you look at is as rivalry, but I feel it shouldn't be as hostile a rivalry as how it appears with many supporters. I don't see how Wales and Northern Ireland don't get the same treatment?

This thread is out of interest, I wanted to see what people's thoughts were behind the common arguments/'opinions' that are posted/said wherever, be it on the internet, radio, etc.

Because they are not arrogant like the english! Anyone but england for me will never like them if that means im a racist so be it :bye:

[CRAZYHIBBY]

I hate England with a passion :greengrin

[MSK]

Fair enough if you look at is as rivalry, but I feel it shouldn't be as hostile a rivalry as how it appears with many supporters. I don't see how Wales and Northern Ireland don't get the same treatment?
This thread is out of interest, I wanted to see what people's thoughts were behind the common arguments/'opinions' that are posted/said wherever, be it on the internet, radio, etc.Because im guessing they dont show the same levels of arrogance Stuart, from the circus that follow England, the press headline in the Sun - E A S Y - ..the rest appear to know their level however the English dont ..they think they have a god given right to steamroller whoever is in front of them ..they think they are bigger & far superior to everyone else..jeez ..they are so far up their own ***** they cant see it ..the USA got no credit whatsoever & neither did Algeria..it was all about poor England..however they still, regardless of those "poor" results believe in their own hype ..they still think they are gonna win it !! ,,,should England go through i honestly hope they meet their match & are sent homewards to think again ..

[Stuart Dutton]

Bigotted my arse. :confused: I suppose you will be supporting Sunderland in the cup when Newcastle are knocked out. :greengrin

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

I don't hold any ill opinion towards Sunderland fans or Newcastle fans, just like with Hearts fans, I see it as a rivalry, but I don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If Hearts got into the European final, although I'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how I like to support teams, as you all have your own views.

Like I have said I am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead I get people retaliating as if I have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.

[Stuart Dutton]

Because im guessing they dont show the same levels of arrogance Stuart, from the circus that follow England, the press headline in the Sun - E A S Y - ..the rest appear to know their level however the English dont ..they think they have a god given right to steamroller whoever is in front of them ..they think they are bigger & far superior to everyone else..jeez ..they are so far up their own ***** they cant see it ..the USA got no credit whatsoever & neither did Algeria..it was all about poor England..however they still, regardless of those "poor" results believe in their own hype ..they still think they are gonna win it !! ,,,should England go through i honestly hope they meet their match & are sent homewards to think again ..

Well to me, the comments suggest people hate English media. As do i, but that's not at all in any form the general opinion of England as a whole.

[Kojock]

Because im guessing they dont show the same levels of arrogance Stuart, from the circus that follow England, the press headline in the Sun - E A S Y - ..the rest appear to know their level however the English dont ..they think they have a god given right to steamroller whoever is in front of them ..they think they are bigger & far superior to everyone else..jeez ..they are so far up their own ***** they cant see it ..the USA got no credit whatsoever & neither did Algeria..it was all about poor England..however they still, regardless of those "poor" results believe in their own hype ..they still think they are gonna win it !! ,,,should England go through i honestly hope they meet their match & are sent homewards to think again ..

Replace word England with the word Rangers or Celtic and all of the above applies......

[Westie1875]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

I don't hold any ill opinion towards Sunderland fans or Newcastle fans, just like with Hearts fans, I see it as a rivalry, but I don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If Hearts got into the European final, although I'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how I like to support teams, as you all have your own views.

Like I have said I am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead I get people retaliating as if I have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.

What a ridiculous comparison, its nothing like that. Are we competing together as one team? No. :faf:

[MSK]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

Its only the UK when it suits them though Stuart isnt it ..? England want to host the World cup in a few years time ..England ..not the UK..not Great Britain ..England wouldnt have to qualify as they would be hosts ..England would get a fair slice of income ...the rest of us would live on the scraps ...UK my big fat hairy ass !!!

[Removed]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

I don't hold any ill opinion towards Sunderland fans or Newcastle fans, just like with Hearts fans, I see it as a rivalry, but I don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If Hearts got into the European final, although I'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how I like to support teams, as you all have your own views.

Like I have said I am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead I get people retaliating as if I have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.

Are you really sure you're Scottish. And as for the other bold quote - are you really sure you're a Hibby :confused:

And as for the Sunderland/Newcastle thing, I think you are in a very very small minority

[Woody1985]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.


I don't hold any ill opinion towards Sunderland fans or Newcastle fans, just like with Hearts fans, I see it as a rivalry, but I don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If Hearts got into the European final, although I'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how I like to support teams, as you all have your own views.

Like I have said I am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead I get people retaliating as if I have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.

I don't support England for two reasons and in the same order:

1. I'm not English.
2. Their commentators do my nut in.

You're wrong about the point in bold. I think it's quite good when GB do well in athletics. It's just a pity we're **** it most of the better events.

[MSK]

Well to me, the comments suggest people hate English media. As do i, but that's not at all in any form the general opinion of England as a whole.Neither is it mines Stuart ...i have many English colleagues & they are all superb folk ..im talking about the football here ..

[blackpoolhibs]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.
I support the British team when we are in the Olympics, Scottish English welsh, whoever is in the team. I don't support England at football, and never will. They are our direct rivals, our nearest rivals, i would not support hearts, why would i support England?
I don't hold any ill opinion towards Sunderland fans or Newcastle fans, just like with Hearts fans, I see it as a rivalry, but I don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If Hearts got into the European final, although I'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how I like to support teams, as you all have your own views.
I'd rather saw my nuts off with a rusty blade. :confused:Like I have said I am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead I get people retaliating as if I have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.
Fair enough, but you have to see it from other folks point of view, ans as well as being rivals, the we are so much better than the rest attitude the media have, does work against your idealistic view, and does alienate your national football team.

[hibsbollah]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

:rolleyes: 'bigotted opinions'?:bye:
I can't believe this garbage keeps getting trotted out.
THEY ARE OUR RIVALS. You may as well ask why we 'have something against' Hearts.

[Sandy]

I would rather cut off my testes with a blunt hacksaw blade, cover them in red hot coals, garnish them with birds eye chillies and then eat them before supporting 'that lot' clear enough ?

[degenerated]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

not being english i couldn't give a flying one how england do in this world cup, or indeed anything else for that matter. i will, jowever, revel in their ill conceived delusions of grandeur (or more appropriately, adequacy) when they once again fail to impress on the bigger stage. Not being british, something which i imagine a lot of posters wouldn't consider themselves either, i feel no obligation to back a team that are as relevant to me as spain, germany, france or indeed any other team currently participating in this world cup.

[Ed De Gramo]

Well to me, the comments suggest people hate English media. As do i, but that's not at all in any form the general opinion of England as a whole.

I dislike England the way I dislike the yam fudleys....with passion :agree:

(hate's such a strong word :greengrin)

An England EPIC fail is the only way....just to GIRU that jug eared crisp eating welt, that traitor Hansen and Captain Arrogant Shearer....

ABE!

[Musselbound]

If you want to cheer on your constituent country then feel free. Who's stopping you? Just don't expect others to join in. That's the aspect of this business that I'm beginning to resent. Supporting teams is surely about freedom of choice so people should not be put under any pressure to feel they should be thinking or feeling in a particular fashion - and that goes for whether or not to be ABE as well. Scotland v England is the oldest international football rivalry in the world (1872 older than Hibs), so if we're now obligated to support our neighbours then surely we should all be supporting the other Edinburgh team whenever Hibs are eliminated from said competition. 'Nuff said.

[62HF]

And on tonight's special edition of International Cringescene, sorry Sportscene:

Scotland fans crowd into Hampden Park for a rousing World Cup rendition of Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem, God Save the Queen and Rule Britannia. A direct video link with the England training camp in South Africa will allow Capello's boys to see individual Scots fans kiss the St George flag then prostrate themselves on the hallowed Hampden turf and swear allegiance to their greatest and most historic rivals.

Next week: exclusive, never before seen footage of thousands of Hibs fans breaking down in tears and weeping into their beer as Hearts throw away the 1986 League championship in the last 7 minutes of the last day of the season.

[blackpoolhibs]

I would rather cut off my testes with a blunt hacksaw blade, cover them in red hot coals, garnish them with birds eye chillies and then eat them before supporting 'that lot' clear enough ?

So you are undecided at the moment, take 10 minutes to think again.:wink:

[ScottB]

This is ultimately the issue, why do people equate not supporting the England team as meaning we automatically hate ALL things English and ALL English people?

Why do they feel this overwhelming need for us to back them? Why the hell do they care? They have this never ending need for everyone to love them and bask in the glow of their brilliance... Which just makes everyone sick to the back teeth of them!


Scotland and England are very different places at the end of the day, unlike Wales and Northern Ireland we have always retained a degree of separation. We define ourselves (well, most of us) as Scots first, and, to my mind, the separation is only increasing.

[HH81]

I dislike England the way I dislike the yam fudleys....with passion :agree:

(hate's such a strong word :greengrin)

An England EPIC fail is the only way....just to GIRU that jug eared crisp eating welt, that traitor Hansen and Captain Arrogant Shearer....

ABE!

:boo hoo: and I thought you were my friend :greengrin

We actually had a good debate at the rugby about England football team today, we all agreed they were crap. I don't care who likes England and who doesn't..... it doesn't change the face they are crap.

[jdships]

Its called rivalry



That's it in a nutshell IMO !!
To the OP
It has nothing to do with "sectarianism" - that is nonsense
It's Wallace Mercer's "Tribalism" , It's family loyalties , it's standing by your mates , it's supporting Leith Athletic V Tyncastle BC.
We are brought up an enviroment where you stick with/play with the guys you like and know .
I don't dislike the English , I just don't like their national football team .
I support Liverpool FC because I had relatives who played for them the same reason as I support HFC ( plus I am a Leither !!)
Do you honestly think supporters of Venezuala who didn't qualify for the WC would support Beazil, Argentina et al - in your dreams

:bye:

[Removed]

the opposite is true though for other sports, i look for jenson Button and Lewis Hamilton, Danny Webb, Bradley Smith, Leon Haslam, James Toesland.


:agree: but glad you stopped there

Hodgson :bitchy:

Nothing to do with him being English though. Just a dick.

[HibbyAndy]

Will the English cheer on Andy Murray when Wimbledon starts tomorrow?

Exactly, End off!!

[MSK]

Will the English cheer on Andy Murray when Wimbledon starts tomorrow?

Exactly, End off!!To be fair Andy ..quite a few do ..:agree:

[Barney McGrew]

Will the English cheer on Andy Murray when Wimbledon starts tomorrow?

As long as he's still in it they will - after all he's British.

He'll be back to being a Scot when he gets put out though :cool2:

[steakbake]

To be fair Andy ..quite a few do ..:agree:

Yes, many people cheer him on who aren't Scottish. It's one of those arguments which goes: "We cheer for Andy Murray when he's playing..." I usually hit back with "but he doesn't represent Scotland - when he plays tennis, he's playing for Britain so it's not the same. He just happens to be Scottish".

[HibbyAndy]

To be fair Andy ..quite a few do ..:agree:

Fair doos K.

But not in the same way as they supported Tiger Tim.

I dont get this thread atall IMO..Im Scottish therefore i want England to fail in every game they play,And to be embaressed like they were against Algeria is a bonus.

Each to there own that want England to win as they are in the UK..But me in my life time have never ever wanted them to win....And will never want England to win at tiddly winks never mind the world cup, They build thereselves up every single major tournament for a fall, And this WC is no different.

Shall i be supporting England?..Ill be supporting them as much as i want Hearts to win a game.Thats a resounding NO!!.

Fair enough those that want England to do well cause they have family ties etc..I dont, So i want them to lose every game they play.

[HibbyAndy]

As long as he's still in it they will - after all he's British.

He'll be back to being a Scot when he gets put out though :cool2:

Spot on :agree:

[woody47]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Why should I? Scotland is a nation in it's own right and as I am Sottish by birth I support my birth country.
By your reasoning, would you also support the unwashed, yams, etc? I certainly wouldn't.
Everyone to their own.
PS My wife is English but I don't hold that against her.:greengrin

[SidBurns]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



[QUOTE=Stuart Dutton;2497130]Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

Who cares!?! :dunno:


What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

It's been around for years and will always be around...


This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

Agreed just like Spain & Portugal, New Zealand & Australia, Australia v E**land, South v North Korea etc etc...


So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

As some people have said, if it makes me a bigot hating EVERYTHING E**lish, then so be it! :greengrin

[blairwallace]

theres two reason i will not support england.
1) all their adverts comes over as almost bragging, even before their on the plane they have it clear that they've won it.
2) they wouldnt support scotland if we were the only british team in the world cup so why should it differ?

USA aren't going on and on about how canada aren't supporting them, possibly because football (soccer) isn't one of their big sports but still.

in 2014 i would love to see if england didnt qualify how many countless adverts about the world cup there would be, even more interestingly is if scotland did qualify would there be scottish adverts? would the english support us? would the commentators change every subject from a game between two other nations to scotland?
answers to all the above would be no.

that is the reason why i will not put an england top on for this world cup or the next or the next, they almost seem as deluded as the yams about winning it simply because they wont it 40 odd years ago when the people who these adverts are aimed at parents were probably either not even born or between the ages of "gaga gogo" and "i want sex sex sex, whats the world cup?"
pop a can of pringles and you can win a football a supporters towel even a computer game, only thing that i hope an england thing will win

think hibs and hearts, most people who support the teams live in edinburgh, now metaphoricaly use edinbutgh to represent brittian, traditionaly people from the northern side of edinburgh (scotland) supports hibs, southern parts (england) support hearts, why?
would you support hearts if they got in champions leauge? no. so what makes england and different?

i will be supporting my third favorite team(s) and they are ABE and i have a right to.

[Billy McKirdy]

TBH, I support the OP on this one, (up to a point), Although I'm Scottish and proud to be, I have no problems in identifying myself as British either, Scotland IMO is a country which is on an island called Britain so in that context I also see myself as British. I know there are many of my fellow Scots who wont accept that but thats life.
As far as supporting or wanting England to do well in this World Cup is concerned, I have many friends who are English and totally understand why they feel aggreived at us Scots who by and large want them to flop, it goes back to the fact that this is the oldest international fixture in the world and we call them the Auld Enemy for good reason, Of course I do want them to fail, just like I want the Infirm or the Jams to get cuffed by the Hibs at every opportunity. Its nothing to do with hate or anything like that, its the wee country or (as the jam tarts would say about the Hibs), the wee team, wanting to prevail against the so-called big yins.:wink:

[marinello59]

I actually think the English media has adopted a much more realistic attitude towards the potential of this English team. Could it be that we are just overly sensitive with many Scots waiting to pounce on any remark no matter how what? Our media are not that much different when it comes to Scotland. Lest we forget, it was us that had a victory parade before the team left for a World Cup and we know how that one finished up.:devil:
To answer the OP, for the purposes of football we are foreign countries, whether we are British or not is totally irrelevant. I don't wish England any ill will but equally I won't be supporting them.

[ronaldo7]

I'd be interested to know who you'll be supporting in the next Commonwealth games Stuart.

100m mens final Scotland, England, Wales, N Ireland all going for the tape.

Who are you shouting for?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

:agree: but glad you stopped there

Hodgson :bitchy:

Nothing to do with him being English though. Just a dick.

So wis Fagerty :faf:

Just realised that i'm not actually a racist bigot as I also shouted on Jamie Whitham, Barry Sheene, Ron Haslam and big Rob McElnae.

In the gowf I support all English golfers except Ian Poulter as he is a bit of an onanist.

[SidBurns]

So wis Fagerty :faf:

Just realised that i'm not actually a racist bigot as I also shouted on Jamie Whitham, Barry Sheene, Ron Haslam and big Rob McElnae.

In the gowf I support all English golfers except Ian Poulter as he is a bit of an onanist.

Yeah not a fan of Poulter either or Ross McGowan, just cause he's fat and crap, a bit like Monty...

[lEXO]

Nothing against english people.But you are our nearest rivals, and i dont want you to win.By your thinking, because i live in Edinburgh should i support the jambos in the scottish cup when we go out?Of course not, i,d rather catch my knob in my zip.It,s the nature of rivalry and 44 years of being reminded about some win at wembley.We get it at every tournament, so can you imagine the **** we would have to listen to if you won something again? Not that there is much chance of that the way they are playing.

[Albanian Hibs]

:bye: I hate England with a passion. END OF.

[Big_D]

Will the English cheer on Andy Murray when Wimbledon starts tomorrow?

Exactly, End off!!

Neither will I , hate tennis and think Murray is a miserable prick . Then again i think The Proclaimers are ***** anaw

[hibbybrian]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

If you are having trouble understanding why people have these opinions, maybe you should try to answer the question

according to media sources, how many British teams have won the European Cup.

The answer is one - Celtc were British when they won the cup in 1967 (Manchester United were English in 1968 and since then only English clubs have won it.)

I doubt many of the posters are anti-English but are rather against the English media jingoism

[Dashing Bob S]

If you are having trouble understanding why people have these opinions, maybe you should try to answer the question

according to media sources, how many British teams have won the European Cup.

The answer is one - Celtc were British when they won the cup in 1967 (Manchester United were English in 1968 and since then only English clubs have won it.)

I doubt many of the posters are anti-English but are rather against the English media jingoism

I think the short answer to the question is that, at least football speaking, there is no constituent country. Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are recognised by FIFA as separate entities, so 'supporting' one in absence of your first choice country is a ludicrous, misguided and rather stupid political act, rather than a footballing decision, which is about rivalry.

We are 'constituent' members of the UK, but we're also 'constituent' members of EC. Can't wait to see England fans cheer on Germany in a final against Brazil.

Football rivalry, pure and simple - when people try and bring politics into it, they end up looking as foolish as Gordon Brown as held in contempt by real supporters of the game.

[lapsedhibee]

For me the answer's in two words and two words only:
Ian. "Wrighty". Wright.

[Barney McGrew]

For me the answer's in two words and two words only:
Ian. "Wrighty". Wright.

Is that not three words?

:devil:

[hibsbollah]

I actually think the English media has adopted a much more realistic attitude towards the potential of this English team. Could it be that we are just overly sensitive with many Scots waiting to pounce on any remark no matter how what? Our media are not that much different when it comes to Scotland. Lest we forget, it was us that had a victory parade before the team left for a World Cup and we know how that one finished up.:devil:
To answer the OP, for the purposes of football we are foreign countries, whether we are British or not is totally irrelevant. I don't wish England any ill will but equally I won't be supporting them.

I've seen you post similar opinions before and I can't agree; I think the English media have been more nationalistic, deluded and hysterical this year than ever. The TV and radio commentary is negative, reactionary and obsessed with England even when they're not playing.

I'm still enjoying it though:greengrin

[marinello59]

I've seen you post similar opinions before and I can't agree; I think the English media have been more nationalistic, deluded and hysterical this year than ever. The TV and radio commentary is negative, reactionary and obsessed with England even when they're not playing.

I'm still enjoying it though:greengrin

It's perception though. If your default position is that the media is overly hysterical about England then you will look for evidence that it is indeed the case. During past competitions I have found myself shouting at the Radio or TV in anger disbelief. That hasn't been the case for me this time around. That either means that my perception is correct OR I have mellowed with age. If it's the latter then I am deeply disappointed. The one thing about aging I was looking forward too was the right to be the grumpy about anything and everything without feeling any need to apologise for it.

[7Hero]

im not bigotted, i don't hate england, i just want them to lose every game.

absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[judas]

In a word yes i do dislike the English, and if that makes me a bigot to people like you then so be it. There is no end to their arrogance and talk of being better than everyone else (even though they have done bugger all to prove that point). I for one will be delighted when they are knocked out, unfortunately though the English media will still talk non-stop about England with hardly a mention of the countries that ARE still competing in the competition.
SCOTTISH AND PROUD OF IT.

I agree with you. You are a bigot.

Funny, I thought the media were showing all the world cup games right to the final. Really shocking that the 'English' media might continue to talk about England right enough.

[hibsbollah]

It's perception though. If your default position is that the media is overly hysterical about England then you will look for evidence that it is indeed the case. During past competitions I have found myself shouting at the Radio or TV in anger disbelief. That hasn't been the case for me this time around. That either means that my perception is correct OR I have mellowed with age. If it's the latter then I am deeply disappointed. The one thing about aging I was looking forward too was the right to be the grumpy about anything and everything without feeling any need to apologise for it.

Thats the only part of it Ive enjoyed so far:greengrin

The other unbalancing factor when deciding whether its got any better is there is so much more analysis, debate and general ****wits talking about football than there was in, say, 82 or 86 when I were a pup. Football wasnt as fashionable then, and there wasnt 24 hour news, Sky etc. Theres so much more opportunity for hysteria now.

[tony higgins]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Strange one, would Portugal hope Brazil win it if they can,t.
Austria cheering for Germany.
Spanish speaking countries could unite as their home country gets knocked out.
Us cheering for OZ or New Zealand or maybe even the USA.
South Africa cheering on Holland maybe.

[judas]

I think the short answer to the question is that, at least football speaking, there is no constituent country. Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland are recognised by FIFA as separate entities, so 'supporting' one in absence of your first choice country is a ludicrous, misguided and rather stupid political act, rather than a footballing decision, which is about rivalry.

We are 'constituent' members of the UK, but we're also 'constituent' members of EC. Can't wait to see England fans cheer on Germany in a final against Brazil.

Football rivalry, pure and simple - when people try and bring politics into it, they end up looking as foolish as Gordon Brown as held in contempt by real supporters of the game.

Aloof and pretentious nonsense. Ooh I'm so concerned about being'held in contempt' by all the real supporters on here like Dashing Bob whasisname.

I watch their players on the TV every other week and like the way they play.

What the hell is a 'footballing decision' anyway? Presumably the criteria involved in making one are a bit broader that your suggestion.

[hibbiedon]

I was on a millwall fans web site and some of the outrageous comments directed at the cumbrian massacre had to be seen to be believed far worse than any thing directed from this country to england

[marinello59]

I was on a millwall fans web site and some of the outrageous comments directed at the cumbrian massacre had to be seen to be believed far worse than any thing directed from this country to england

How is that relevant? Visit the various Old Firm sites to see what they say about each other. How about some of the stuff thrown at us from Kickback?

[marinello59]

The other unbalancing factor when deciding whether its got any better is there is so much more analysis, debate and general ****wits talking about football than there was in, say, 82 or 86 when I were a pup. Football wasnt as fashionable then, and there wasnt 24 hour news, Sky etc. Theres so much more opportunity for hysteria now.

Fair point, that's not something I had considered. We can still agree to disagree though.:greengrin

[Reaper]

How is it bigoted exactly?

I hate this recent development in English attitude, 'if you don't back us your a racist.'

Why should I back England? I'm not English, I feel no attachment to them whatsoever. Take their media out of the equation and I'd be utterly indifferent. Should we all start backing Hearts because we are both from Edinburgh then? Surely the English should back Germany as they share a common ancestory and are both European?

That's what really annoys me, we can't say word one against England, yet the TV is full of 'anybody but Germany' related chat.

I'm watching the tournament for enjoyment, keeping an eye out for the US as they have a Scot in their ranks, Spain and Argentina because I like how they play and Ivory Coast for Bamba. But of course apparently that makes me an English hating bigot doesn't it?

:thumbsup: Couldn't have said it better masel.

[Hibercelona]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Would I be a bigot for not following the yams in a major competition?

England have been our rivals throughout history.

Although far more light hearted now, they are rivals all the same.

There's no other country in the world that I would rather see Scotland hump in the realm of football.

I for one hope that England fail and fail badly and you can be assured that i'll be there ready to rub the salt into the wounds. :agree:

"Oh flower of Scotland....." :saltireflag

[seanraff07]

People are saying Andy Murray represents Britain in Tennis.. that's true and the English go by him as 'the British Andy Murray'. Now i'm fine with that IF they didn't say the English Tim Henman when he was playing. If it's someone from England it's all England this, England that. But if their from Scotland, Ireland or Wales they are known as being British which does my head in.

In regards to the original question.. i'm Scottish and their is a rivalry with us and England therefore i want them to fail at the World Cup. Whether their fans are or not.. the media from England are far too cocky for my liking and being from Scotland, i don't particularly want to put up with their pish about England being great and all the rest, when i watch a World Cup game, and i'm talking about any World Cup game as usually any game will have about 10 minutes of half-time about England.

For example, midway through the Brazil game tonight they advertised the England Slovenia game in the bottom corner, so why didn't they bother advertising games that are being played tomorrow not in 3 days time? Cause it's all about England. They never take into consequence that many Scots are watching and we actually take an interest in the World Cup outwith England games.

Overall, i don't like them cause when it comes to Football especially, they are far too cocky and fit bloody 1966 into every match commentary even if it has no relation to the game. And i'm sick of death to hearing it and i know they wouldn't support us if we were the only British team at the World Cup.

I hope they lose on Wednesday and once again look like a bunch of overpaid numpties when they yet again fail to win the World Cup when their hyped up to do so and make the media also look daft as ever.:agree:

[jgl07]

I come from Manchester and support City.

People will rarely ask if I will support 'another Manchester team' in the Champions' League.

I will give a cheer for the likes of Bolton Wanderers, Stockport, Bury or Oldham but I will not support United.

That's similar to most in Scotland who will often give support to Wales, Northern Ireland, or the Republic of Ireland.

Even I find it hard to support England when the team appears to be built around a Shrek lookalike and plays 'hit and run' football.

[heretoday]

I can't be bothered with the ABE hatred stuff. Used to get into it but the chip on the shoulder got too heavy.

It now reappears when we play Hearts and the OF!

I'd like England to do well in this tournament to get back at the media whom I despise.
(I know they are at the wind-up half the time but if I don't rise to the bait who will?)

They actually appear to want their team to lose because it makes for a better story and I find that kind of cynicism a bit upsetting.

Mind you when Scotland get turfed out of tournaments early doors, I sense the same delight in the voices of the Glasgow meeja so we're to blame as well.

[Fantic]

No I wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the United Kingdom and I feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the GB Athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a Scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the English one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

I don't hold any ill opinion towards Sunderland fans or Newcastle fans, just like with Hearts fans, I see it as a rivalry, but I don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If Hearts got into the European final, although I'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how I like to support teams, as you all have your own views.

Like I have said I am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead I get people retaliating as if I have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.

Your the daftie who started a thread calling anyone who hates England bigoted.
Hibs hate Hearts. Rangers hate Celtc. Man city hate Man U. Scotland hate England. Get over it.

[green.and.white]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

First off, i am Scottish, not British.
When it comes down to football, many Scots say 'i hate England' but they are really only referring to english fans, media and players. As many have already said the English are so ****ing arogant it infuriates me, the slogan for their suits for the WC was something along the lines 'the best for the best', show me evidence to back this up please!!!
For Christ's sake, Scotland have won more trophies than England have in the last 43 years :agree:

[Stuart Dutton]

Looks like many comments on here haven't read many of the posts properly, taking what sentence/phrase into account and twisting it so they can come back with a jab at the original poster. That's the problem with many posters.

A lot of comments seem to be about claiming they aren't bigots or that I shouldn't call them a bigot, if whoever has commented something similar; read my post again which I'm sure says that I can't understand why we say bigoted things about England in general. I haven't called anyone a bigot or suggested that at all, misunderstanding on that person's part.

Thanks to the odd one or two posters sticking to the topic, rather than criticising mine or another's original post. :wink:

[HibeeHutch]

What a really substandard myopic post. Why do we have to support England is more the question. It's seems to be derigeur among the unionist PC brigade like you to suggest that we support England to illustrate that we are a 'mature, grown-up' nation. *****.

For me it's down to the fooball rivalry (the oldest in the world); the completely biased; unbalanced London-centric media sensationalism and hype; which includes the total disregard and disrespect for the other home nations watching the WC...in any WC year, whether we're there or not. End of.

[Stan the Man]

Bore off!

If you think you are going to find anything on this thread you didn't already know I'd be very surprised.

Please try harder next time.

[Removed]

Looks like many comments on here haven't read many of the posts properly, taking what sentence/phrase into account and twisting it so they can come back with a jab at the original poster. That's the problem with many posters.

A lot of comments seem to be about claiming they aren't bigots or that I shouldn't call them a bigot, if whoever has commented something similar; read my post again which I'm sure says that I can't understand why we say bigoted things about England in general. I haven't called anyone a bigot or suggested that at all, misunderstanding on that person's part.

Thanks to the odd one or two posters sticking to the topic, rather than criticising mine or another's original post. :wink:

From your OP


What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

Give us some examples of what you would class as bigoted opinions then

[Fantic]

Looks like many comments on here haven't read many of the posts properly, taking what sentence/phrase into account and twisting it so they can come back with a jab at the original poster. That's the problem with many posters.

A lot of comments seem to be about claiming they aren't bigots or that I shouldn't call them a bigot, if whoever has commented something similar; read my post again which I'm sure says that I can't understand why we say bigoted things about England in general. I haven't called anyone a bigot or suggested that at all, misunderstanding on that person's part.

Thanks to the odd one or two posters sticking to the topic, rather than criticising mine or another's original post. :wink:

So someone who says bigoted things isn't a bigot?

[Hainan Hibs]

I'm still not sure whether the OP was fishing or serious but I don't support England because

1) I consider myself Scottish. That is it. England is as foreign to me as any other country. There is no reason whatsoever why I should support them, just like there isn't much reason to support many of the other teams.

2) Their media. Every time I turn on my TV or radio I am faced with big fat ugly unfunny loud mouths like Chris Moyles and James Corden screaming Come on England. **** Off.

3) The racism I have experienced from English people to Scottish people, increasing when they just could not handle the fact they had a Prime Minister from Scotland. I've got plenty of good English friends but I've came across too many knobends with racist thinking who make me love watching their football team get pumped.

4) It gets it right up the "Oh look at me, I'm Scottish and supporting England, therefore I am morally superior to you" brigade. Get off the high horses and **** off.


A few months a go I wouldn't have cared a monkeys about their team. I don't consider myself British and England are as foreign as any other country to me. But after having to put up with Corden, Moyles, Lawrenson, Lineker and co, I want them pumped and sent home.

[1875godsgift]

I'm still not sure whether the OP was fishing or serious but I don't support England because

1) I consider myself Scottish. That is it. England is as foreign to me as any other country. There is no reason whatsoever why I should support them, just like there isn't much reason to support many of the other teams.

2) Their media. Every time I turn on my TV or radio I am faced with big fat ugly unfunny loud mouths like Chris Moyles and James Corden screaming Come on England. **** Off.

3) The racism I have experienced from English people to Scottish people, increasing when they just could not handle the fact they had a Prime Minister from Scotland. I've got plenty of good English friends but I've came across too many knobends with racist thinking who make me love watching their football team get pumped.

4) It gets it right up the "Oh look at me, I'm Scottish and supporting England, therefore I am morally superior to you" brigade. Get off the high horses and **** off.


A few months a go I wouldn't have cared a monkeys about their team. I don't consider myself British and England are as foreign as any other country to me. But after having to put up with Corden, Moyles, Lawrenson, Lineker and co, I want them pumped and sent home.
And the fact is nobody has mentioned Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster, Culloden, Norht Sea Oil, the Highland Clearances, and basicaly all the times england have completely shafted Scotland. Why the **** would we have any loyalty or affinity to a country who have raped us for generations?
END OFF

[hibbiedon]

How is that relevant? Visit the various Old Firm sites to see what they say about each other. How about some of the stuff thrown at us from Kickback?
The reason I felt it was relevant was it shows a hatred from one part of a country towards another, nothing to do with a football preference. There has always been a North/ South divide in england as there has always been a division between scotland & england. I was only pointing out there is far worse views in england towards their country as there is from ours. As for the old firm sites, no thanks

[aberhibsfc]

How is it bigoted exactly?

I hate this recent development in English attitude, 'if you don't back us your a racist.'

Why should I back England? I'm not English, I feel no attachment to them whatsoever. Take their media out of the equation and I'd be utterly indifferent. Should we all start backing Hearts because we are both from Edinburgh then? Surely the English should back Germany as they share a common ancestory and are both European?

That's what really annoys me, we can't say word one against England, yet the TV is full of 'anybody but Germany' related chat.


I'm watching the tournament for enjoyment, keeping an eye out for the US as they have a Scot in their ranks, Spain and Argentina because I like how they play and Ivory Coast for Bamba. But of course apparently that makes me an English hating bigot doesn't it?

:top marks: Well put.

I am Scottish, even British, but I am not English. England represents England, seems simple to me.

[Andy74]

:top marks: Well put.

I am Scottish, even British, but I am not English. England represents England, seems simple to me.

Exactly, the opening post is about as stupid as I've seen.

In sports where England are represented seperately then they are in no way part of our 'country'.

As has been mentiomed its a bit like saying we should support Hearts as they are from Edinburgh.

[judas]

Your the daftie who started a thread calling anyone who hates England bigoted.
Hibs hate Hearts. Rangers hate Celtc. Man city hate Man U. Scotland hate England. Get over it.

He he he. Do you have any idea how funny that is?

[GhostofBolivar]

And the fact is nobody has mentioned Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster, Culloden, Norht Sea Oil, the Highland Clearances, and basicaly all the times england have completely shafted Scotland. Why the **** would we have any loyalty or affinity to a country who have raped us for generations?
END OFF

More Scots at Culloden fought against Charles Edward Stewart than for him.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I actually think the English media has adopted a much more realistic attitude towards the potential of this English team. Could it be that we are just overly sensitive with many Scots waiting to pounce on any remark no matter how what? Our media are not that much different when it comes to Scotland. Lest we forget, it was us that had a victory parade before the team left for a World Cup and we know how that one finished up.:devil:
To answer the OP, for the purposes of football we are foreign countries, whether we are British or not is totally irrelevant. I don't wish England any ill will but equally I won't be supporting them.

Surely not, Scots being petty and having a chip on our shoulder, no way!

I do really like this issue, as it really does make lots of folk squirm - the 90 minute Bravehearts patriots who think they are re-fighting Bannockburn and get all patriotic about Bonnie Scotland - then vote to stay as a junior partner in an unequal Union where we have to hold out the begging bowl to....you guessed it England!

You may take our freedom, natural resources and political decision-making, but we dont care because we will all support anyone but England at football (but please keep looking after our poor wee country though and giving us our pocket money, we dont mean it really, we cant cope on our own)

Find it all a bit pathetic, personally i dont see why Scotland should have its own football team - we are either British or not - this psuedo-nationalism when it comes to football all seems a bit pointless to me.

[lapsedhibee]

i dont see why Scotland should have its own football team - we are either British or not - this psuedo-nationalism when it comes to football all seems a bit pointless to me.

Pointless? Football rivalry? Shirley not.

Similarly, no need whatsoever for Aberdeen to have its own football team. The North East of Scotland area could perfectly well be represented by a team from Dundee. Two teams in Dundee at the moment, Dundee FC and Dundee United, so merge them, taking the first name from the first club (Dundee) and the second name from the second club (United) and call the merged team/club Dundee United. Sorted.

[jgl07]

And the fact is nobody has mentioned Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster, Culloden, Norht Sea Oil, the Highland Clearances, and basicaly all the times england have completely shafted Scotland. Why the **** would we have any loyalty or affinity to a country who have raped us for generations?
END OFF
I think you will find that Culloden was largely Scots shafting other Scots.

This romantic cod-Jacobite rubbish does no-one any favours.

[capitals_finest]

For the same reason we don't cheer every team from our own city. Endof. :yawn:

[aberhibsfc]

Surely not, Scots being petty and having a chip on our shoulder, no way!

I do really like this issue, as it really does make lots of folk squirm - the 90 minute Bravehearts patriots who think they are re-fighting Bannockburn and get all patriotic about Bonnie Scotland - then vote to stay as a junior partner in an unequal Union where we have to hold out the begging bowl to....you guessed it England!

You may take our freedom, natural resources and political decision-making, but we dont care because we will all support anyone but England at football (but please keep looking after our poor wee country though and giving us our pocket money, we dont mean it really, we cant cope on our own)

Find it all a bit pathetic, personally i dont see why Scotland should have its own football team - we are either British or not - this psuedo-nationalism when it comes to football all seems a bit pointless to me.

Your one minded argument inferring Scotland shouldn't have a football team it should be British is a
tad niave. You omit Wales and England from this argument and try to lay into Scotland as if we are the bastions of all decision making. Do you honeslty believe that either, especially England would allow themselves to be known by any other name.

Britian is an island, irrespective of state of mind, where you live or who you vote for. We will always be British whether inclusive of the United Kingdom or not. The very same way that we are also European, or from the planet Earth. In fact, instead of all this division, why not have one team called 'World' but then who would they play.

Ps, the home nations brought the game to the world (don't believe all that Baddiel and Skinner sing about)
The home nations played each other and the monies earned went towards a little known body called FIFA. It was this money which helped FIFA develop. Thus we were granted special dispensation as independent states as far as the home nations were concerned.

Why stop at national level, why not just merge the leagues as well.

Why even be British why not European. If that sounds silly then so do you!

[Dashing Bob S]

Aloof and pretentious nonsense. Ooh I'm so concerned about being'held in contempt' by all the real supporters on here like Dashing Bob whasisname.

I watch their players on the TV every other week and like the way they play.

What the hell is a 'footballing decision' anyway? Presumably the criteria involved in making one are a bit broader that your suggestion.

Yes, apos for the rather squiffy tone there, uncalled for on my part. Obviously, any 'support; for any team is an individual choice, and if people get their jollies getting behind the English team, or any other, (I've a soft sport for Argentina) then fair play to them.

What I object to is being told that I should be supporting England in the absence of Scotland, and having it hinted that because I don't, i'm some sort of racist, parochial caveman. Why should I?

And my point is the same as the other posters, a footballing decision is one that takes into account the history and culture of the parties involved, not some pathetic attempt by some people to show how supposedly PC by rising above the so-called tribalism. Let's keep the new-model political engineering out of it; I don't want some idiot from the council telling me I should be supporting Hearts in Europe as they're an 'Edinburgh' team.

[Removed]

Britian is an island, irrespective of state of mind, where you live or who you vote for. We will always be British whether inclusive of the United Kingdom or not. The very same way that we are also European, or from the planet Earth. In fact, instead of all this division, why not have one team called 'World' but then who would they play.



Only opposition fit for a world XI would be Hearts :agree:

Play it at Tynie and the atmosphere is guaranteed to be out of this world

[7 Hills]

OP - you will find that resentment arises because of the fact that football's TV media have an extremely Anglocentric attitude. This is especially disappointing when it comes from the BBC, which is supposedly the "British" Broadcasting Corporation.

Furthermore, to all those who support the Union; I would say that the "Union" is completely unbalanced. A great footballing example of this is the fact that Sir Tom Finney was honoured with a knighthood, despite the fact that he never won any honours during his career. The only reason I can see for him being awarded his knighthood was that he played his whole career with the one club - very laudable, but contrast that with Gordon Smith, who won Scottish Championships with three separate clubs, all non-Old Firm; as far as I'm aware, he never received even a measly MBE or OBE.

I don't support England in the World Cup because they are not my team - I don't accept that this makes me anti-English. Am I anti-Edinburgh because I don't want the Jambos to win a throw-in? Nothing could be further from the truth.

[ionahibby]

Looks like many comments on here haven't read many of the posts properly, taking what sentence/phrase into account and twisting it so they can come back with a jab at the original poster. That's the problem with many posters.

A lot of comments seem to be about claiming they aren't bigots or that I shouldn't call them a bigot, if whoever has commented something similar; read my post again which I'm sure says that I can't understand why we say bigoted things about England in general. I haven't called anyone a bigot or suggested that at all, misunderstanding on that person's part.

Thanks to the odd one or two posters sticking to the topic, rather than criticising mine or another's original post. :wink:


What did you expect! you must have known you would get a reaction like this. To bring up a topic like this and not expect flak :confused: Why bring a topic like this up in the first place?

[vahibbie]

More Scots at Culloden fought against Charles Edward Stewart than for him.

Did they. There was a lot but not more, 4 out of 16 battalions were Scottish.
If all the Highland Clans had joined the Jacobite cause it would have been a walk-over.

[vahibbie]

Looks like many comments on here haven't read many of the posts properly, taking what sentence/phrase into account and twisting it so they can come back with a jab at the original poster. That's the problem with many posters.

A lot of comments seem to be about claiming they aren't bigots or that I shouldn't call them a bigot, if whoever has commented something similar; read my post again which I'm sure says that I can't understand why we say bigoted things about England in general. I haven't called anyone a bigot or suggested that at all, misunderstanding on that person's part.

Thanks to the odd one or two posters sticking to the topic, rather than criticising mine or another's original post. :wink:

You've got to be taking the piss. That post is worse than your opener:yawn:

[Twa Cairpets]

And the fact is nobody has mentioned Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster, Culloden, Norht Sea Oil, the Highland Clearances, and basicaly all the times england have completely shafted Scotland. Why the **** would we have any loyalty or affinity to a country who have raped us for generations?
END OFF

Bannockburn - We won that one
Culloden - arguably more Scots fighting on the British side than the Jacobite
Darien - pretty much home made ineptitude
Oil - Not stolen by the English, but discovered hundreds of years after the Act of Union
Highland Clearances - a class and wealth issue rather than a Scotland/England thing.

By the way, I want to see England pumped royally if for no other reason to pump the bombastic, smug and patronising attitude of the media.

[Twa Cairpets]

Did they. There was a lot but not more, 4 out of 16 battalions were Scottish.
If all the Highland Clans had joined the Jacobite cause it would have been a walk-over.

Going way off topic here, but considering that the entire estimated effective fighting force in the Highlands at the time (excluding the Campbells) was about 35-40,00, they weren't ever going to win.

[Phil D. Rolls]

And the fact is nobody has mentioned Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster, Culloden, Norht Sea Oil, the Highland Clearances, and basicaly all the times england have completely shafted Scotland. Why the **** would we have any loyalty or affinity to a country who have raped us for generations?
END OFF

Hoy heid!

We won at Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster was our own doing, Culloden was a British civil war, and the Highland Clearances were the result of lowland bankers and greedy Scottish landowners. North Sea Oil, well maybe.

At least have an accurate historical basis for your hatred. :bitchy:

[basehibby]

This is ultimately the issue, why do people equate not supporting the England team as meaning we automatically hate ALL things English and ALL English people?

Why do they feel this overwhelming need for us to back them? Why the hell do they care? They have this never ending need for everyone to love them and bask in the glow of their brilliance... Which just makes everyone sick to the back teeth of them!


Scotland and England are very different places at the end of the day, unlike Wales and Northern Ireland we have always retained a degree of separation. We define ourselves (well, most of us) as Scots first, and, to my mind, the separation is only increasing.

:top marksAgreed - I've got plenty good friends who are English just as I've got good friends that support the jamtarts.

On a personal level if they won something I'd be pleased for my friends - but that doesn't mean for a moment that I'd be supporting either team - I just couldn't sincerely manage to do it even if I wanted to - as someone else pointed out it's called RIVALRY!

In the case of the english of course, the underlying rivalry is unfailingly reinforced in the run up to every major tourney as we have to endure our "shared" media bombarding us with the usual crass engerlund drivel, as well as patronising eejits who usually know sod all about football insinuating that we should somehow change the habit of several centuries in enthusiastically supporting them :confused:

[lapsedhibee]

At least have an accurate historical basis for your hatred. :bitchy:

:agree: The salient dates here are: 1970, 1982, 1986, 1990, 1998, 2002, and 2006.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Like most folk I dont support England at football coz in footy terms they are to Scotland what the Yams are to Hibs.

My big brother was born in England and we used to have fist fights during the annual game years ago.

But as a people I have nothing against the English. I have many friends who support the Yams, so just coz I cant stand the manky Gorgie mob doesnt mean I hate my friends. If I see an England strip worn by an English person in the street I have no problem coz he / she is English and has every right to support them without any hassle from me or anybody else.

As somebody else on here said. If theres one thing I cant stand its the Braveheart brigade who think that hating the English makes you a patriot. What a load of bollocks.

Being a patriot is wanting Scotland to be a proper country on the European and World stage. it makes me puke listening to people who say Scotland should stick with the union coz we would never survive on our own economically.

Is that it then. Sod pride in your country so long as a pint of milk or a gallon of petrol isnt going to be 10p more expensive. What a proud nation we are !!!

Nae wonder most of the world say England when they mean Britain. After all, its what the English do.

Anyway .... We can be proud to be part of the only country in the world to discover oil and get poorer.

:bitchy:

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: The salient dates here are: 1970, 1982, 1986, 1990, 1998, 2002, and 2006.

What year was Emlyn Hughes born?

[Purehibee_MYB]

I am Scottish, and live on the Isle of Man, have done since I was 6 and I'm now 18, and I refuse to ever support England. I am sick of Manx people, who have more connections to Scotland, Ireland and even Wales, support England it's ridiculous, they then have the cheek to turn around to me and mock Scotland, and I have to remind them that they aren't even English, and they reply to that by saying it is the closest place to them blah blah blah... It's a rivalry, and I don't understand why the OP thinks that is Bigotry...

It is clear when talking about Scottish people playing for Britain as people have said.. Andy Murray wins, he's British, Andy Murray loses and he's Scottish. OP says that they would support Scotland, and this is a one way thing, that is rubbish, I am constantly abused, and mocked for being Scottish... One way my arse!

[Musselbound]

Did they. There was a lot but not more, 4 out of 16 battalions were Scottish.
If all the Highland Clans had joined the Jacobite cause it would have been a walk-over.

Don't know which side had most Scots but it's worth debunking another myth - not all the Jacobites were highlanders or even Scots. There were some English Jacobites and some from a few other European countries as well.

As one or two others have mentioned, another myth is the idea that the English were solely responsible for the Highland Clearances. I think that's quite far from the truth. Many Scots were involved including sheriff officers from Inverness and suchlike. The idea that the English were required en masse to drive the highlanders out is absolute nonsense since there were plenty Scots who seemed happy enough to carry it out.

[twiceinathens]

If Britain is competing then I would support them.
The world cup in football is competed for by individual member nations. My nation is not competing there is no obligation on me to support any other team.
Am I anti-English? Certainly not. I worked regularly with English colleagues -in England
for several years very amicably.
Am I anti the "Engarlund "media? Absolutely. I appreciate everyone wants their team to win. But there is a wide difference between loyalty and arrogance. There seems to be an underlying assumption that there is some expectation that football should be "coming home" by right and that the "English" premier league is naturally superior. It is the richest and thus attracts many of the best foreign players. But are the English players in it actually as near "world class" as they assume?
Managers? Systems? Boredom? Could it be that they are actually just not good enough?
Notice how often visiting sportsmen and women are asked how awed they are to be allowed to play at Wembley, Lords, Twickenham and so on.

If they prove to be good enough to win the competition in the end so be it. But lay off the naturally superior stuff.

[vahibbie]

Going way off topic here, but considering that the entire estimated effective fighting force in the Highlands at the time (excluding the Campbells) was about 35-40,00, they weren't ever going to win.

If they had reached Derby with 30K plus radge Highlanders I believe it's commonly accepted in histiorical circles that they would have won. English Jacobites would have joined in much greater numbers and more French support would have been given.

Not that I think it would have made a blind bit of difference to anything and the Trams in Edinburgh would still be a shambles.:grr:

[The_Todd]

Being European, I support Spain, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Netherlands, Denmark and everyone else.

I'm rarely disappointed.

[1875godsgift]

Hoy heid!

We won at Bannockburn, the Darien Disaster was our own doing, Culloden was a British civil war, and the Highland Clearances were the result of lowland bankers and greedy Scottish landowners. North Sea Oil, well maybe.

At least have an accurate historical basis for your hatred. :bitchy:
We won at Bannockburn, agreed.
The Darien Disaster was engineered by an english double agent.
Culloden wasn't a British civil war, it was the last hope we had to rid ourselves of the tyrannical english yoke.
The Highland Clearances were inspired by greedy Scottish/english absentee landlords with the english government dangling a carrot before their eyes.
And at what point did I say I hated anybody?:dunno:

[mickki40]

Because im guessing they dont show the same levels of arrogance Stuart, from the circus that follow England, the press headline in the Sun - E A S Y - ..the rest appear to know their level however the English dont ..they think they have a god given right to steamroller whoever is in front of them ..they think they are bigger & far superior to everyone else..jeez ..they are so far up their own ***** they cant see it ..the USA got no credit whatsoever & neither did Algeria..it was all about poor England..however they still, regardless of those "poor" results believe in their own hype ..they still think they are gonna win it !! ,,,should England go through i honestly hope they meet their match & are sent homewards to think again ..
In your quote you stated England still think they are gonna win it...I have had a challenge with 47 scots on my facebook page to find me an English commentator prior to the World Cup, and during the first 3 games who says England will win the world cup...Not 1 Scot has yet got back to me. You also stated they still believe they will win the World Cup??? When/where was this stated (give me names and dates) but don't conveniently forget these commentators names now. You are a victim of the hype that All the English commentators keep saying England will win the world cup even before a ball has been Kicked. I challenge you to get me the games and the names of the commentators who said this and what channel. You see prior to the World cup there was aheadline in the Scottish Sun stating "arrogant English plan World cup victory parade" I asked the Journalist and his Editor via E-mail where the source of this story was from, they did not even reply and still havent after 7 requests. I did however ask the English F.A. To release me a statement as to whether a story had been released to this Journalist or any other for that matter, The English F.A. Replied within an hour stating No plans have been made for a victory parade and no interview was given to the journalist, The same day it was spouted by a work place colleague that "I hate the English cos they are already planning a victory parade" see what I mean? No you probably will never give me the NAME OR GAME WHERE YOU HEARD THE PHANTOM COMMENTATOR SAY ENGLAND WILL WIN THE WORLD CUP. Worst of all you will still swear blind you heard it. Names and Games please

[MSK]

In your quote you stated England still think they are gonna win it...I have had a challenge with 47 scots on my facebook page to find me an English commentator prior to the World Cup, and during the first 3 games who says England will win the world cup...Not 1 Scot has yet got back to me. You also stated they still believe they will win the World Cup??? When/where was this stated (give me names and dates) but don't conveniently forget these commentators names now. You are a victim of the hype that All the English commentators keep saying England will win the world cup even before a ball has been Kicked. I challenge you to get me the games and the names of the commentators who said this and what channel. You see prior to the World cup there was aheadline in the Scottish Sun stating "arrogant English plan World cup victory parade" I asked the Journalist and his Editor via E-mail where the source of this story was from, they did not even reply and still havent after 7 requests. I did however ask the English F.A. To release me a statement as to whether a story had been released to this Journalist or any other for that matter, The English F.A. Replied within an hour stating No plans have been made for a victory parade and no interview was given to the journalist, The same day it was spouted by a work place colleague that "I hate the English cos they are already planning a victory parade" see what I mean? No you probably will never give me the NAME OR GAME WHERE YOU HEARD THE PHANTOM COMMENTATOR SAY ENGLAND WILL WIN THE WORLD CUP. Worst of all you will still swear blind you heard it. Names and Games pleaseAw get off yer high horse ffs !!! no i wont give you names because i cant really be arsed ..just like i cant be arsed with all this England hype ....oh before i trot off to work ..i hope England get humped the morn ..in fact i hope they get humped everytime they play ..i dont like them but you may have guessed ...but hey ,,it aint bigotry or even hatred ..its called rivalry ...

Get over it ...:bye:

[HFC 0-7]

In your quote you stated England still think they are gonna win it...I have had a challenge with 47 scots on my facebook page to find me an English commentator prior to the World Cup, and during the first 3 games who says England will win the world cup...Not 1 Scot has yet got back to me. You also stated they still believe they will win the World Cup??? When/where was this stated (give me names and dates) but don't conveniently forget these commentators names now. You are a victim of the hype that All the English commentators keep saying England will win the world cup even before a ball has been Kicked. I challenge you to get me the games and the names of the commentators who said this and what channel. You see prior to the World cup there was aheadline in the Scottish Sun stating "arrogant English plan World cup victory parade" I asked the Journalist and his Editor via E-mail where the source of this story was from, they did not even reply and still havent after 7 requests. I did however ask the English F.A. To release me a statement as to whether a story had been released to this Journalist or any other for that matter, The English F.A. Replied within an hour stating No plans have been made for a victory parade and no interview was given to the journalist, The same day it was spouted by a work place colleague that "I hate the English cos they are already planning a victory parade" see what I mean? No you probably will never give me the NAME OR GAME WHERE YOU HEARD THE PHANTOM COMMENTATOR SAY ENGLAND WILL WIN THE WORLD CUP. Worst of all you will still swear blind you heard it. Names and Games please

I am not saying that I have heard a commentator say this, however, the commentators are so biased its un real. There is being positive about winning then there is arrogance. Why do England think if they havent won a game they have under achieved? Why cant it just be that the other team have played better? I heard commentators saying that they should have won the USA game, but when I was watching it it looked like the USA had a few good chances as England to win the game. The same thing happened against Algeria, where a few of those players ripped some of the England players the only problem they had is they tried to much fancy stuff to score.

I have heard commentators say that England have a great chance of winning the world cup because they have the best league in the world. That maybe true but is it the best league in the world because of all the England players? look at Chelsea, they won the league last year but only had 3 england players playing in their team regularly, in fact they have just as big or almost as big French, Portuguese, Ivory Cost and Serbian contigent in their squad and first team.

I work with English collegues every day and many of them, not all, cringe at some of the commentators and english media, not just because they are so biased but because of how much pressure it heaps on the players.

It isnt just the other home nations that think England have an arogance about them when it comes to the world cup, this has been seen in other European countries like Spain and Portugal. Surely it cant be the scottish media influencing their opinions as well, maybe its their own media. If it is the media that is making these lies up why is it always against England? You could maybe blame jelousy on the scottish media as scotland are not at the world cup, but why the other countries, I doubt they would be jelous of england when they probably have better teams!

[hibbiedon]

"ENGLAND HAVE A NEW COACH !" its picking them up on thursday to take them to the airport. GIRUY

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Your one minded argument inferring Scotland shouldn't have a football team it should be British is a
tad niave. You omit Wales and England from this argument and try to lay into Scotland as if we are the bastions of all decision making. Do you honeslty believe that either, especially England would allow themselves to be known by any other name.

Britian is an island, irrespective of state of mind, where you live or who you vote for. We will always be British whether inclusive of the United Kingdom or not. The very same way that we are also European, or from the planet Earth. In fact, instead of all this division, why not have one team called 'World' but then who would they play.

Ps, the home nations brought the game to the world (don't believe all that Baddiel and Skinner sing about)
The home nations played each other and the monies earned went towards a little known body called FIFA. It was this money which helped FIFA develop. Thus we were granted special dispensation as independent states as far as the home nations were concerned.

Why stop at national level, why not just merge the leagues as well.

Why even be British why not European. If that sounds silly then so do you!


And im the one being naive! Nation states are the way we (i.e. humans) have decided to divide our selves up, and it follows that football has similarly done this - these are national competitions played for by countries (not continents, geographic areas or any other form of division).

Scotland is not a country, so i dont see why we should have our own football team - we choose to be part of the UK, so i dont see why we shouldnt be subsumed into a UK team.

All this hypocritical nonsense about no team GB just highlights how petty too many Scots are that they dont care about being a proper country, as long as they have a (crap) football team to play Braveheart to half a dozen times a year, sinf Flowr of Scotland and the Bonnie Banks

[Musselbound]

I am not saying that I have heard a commentator say this, however, the commentators are so biased its un real. There is being positive about winning then there is arrogance. Why do England think if they havent won a game they have under achieved? Why cant it just be that the other team have played better? I heard commentators saying that they should have won the USA game, but when I was watching it it looked like the USA had a few good chances as England to win the game. The same thing happened against Algeria, where a few of those players ripped some of the England players the only problem they had is they tried to much fancy stuff to score.

I have heard commentators say that England have a great chance of winning the world cup because they have the best league in the world. That maybe true but is it the best league in the world because of all the England players? look at Chelsea, they won the league last year but only had 3 england players playing in their team regularly, in fact they have just as big or almost as big French, Portuguese, Ivory Cost and Serbian contigent in their squad and first team.

I work with English collegues every day and many of them, not all, cringe at some of the commentators and english media, not just because they are so biased but because of how much pressure it heaps on the players.

It isnt just the other home nations that think England have an arogance about them when it comes to the world cup, this has been seen in other European countries like Spain and Portugal. Surely it cant be the scottish media influencing their opinions as well, maybe its their own media. If it is the media that is making these lies up why is it always against England? You could maybe blame jelousy on the scottish media as scotland are not at the world cup, but why the other countries, I doubt they would be jelous of england when they probably have better teams!

I live in Spain and some of the comments here, especially prior to the humbling from Switzerland, were worse than anything I can recall from English commentators. One reporter actually stated that the game against Switzerland would be the first of 7 Spain would play in the World Cup. No ifs or buts about it. They were a certainty for the final. Thankfully it has calmed down a bit since the Switzerland game.

The Spanish media actually hold the England team in very high regard and consider(ed) them among the favourites. In fact, I fail to understand why they rate them so highly. I think it's got a lot to do with hype surrounding the EPL which they see a lot of here and they fail to notice how few of the best players are actually English.

I'm Scottish by the way and don't like the England team at all so I have no reason to make this up.

[HFC 0-7]

And im the one being naive! Nation states are the way we (i.e. humans) have decided to divide our selves up, and it follows that football has similarly done this - these are national competitions played for by countries (not continents, geographic areas or any other form of division).

Scotland is not a country, so i dont see why we should have our own football team - we choose to be part of the UK, so i dont see why we shouldnt be subsumed into a UK team.

All this hypocritical nonsense about no team GB just highlights how petty too many Scots are that they dont care about being a proper country, as long as they have a (crap) football team to play Braveheart to half a dozen times a year, sinf Flowr of Scotland and the Bonnie Banks

Eh? How are we not a country? Yes we are part of Britain but we are also part of Europe! Should we just have a european football team and play the other continents, after all we chose to be part of europe.

England, Northern Ireland and Wales wouldnt want to be part of a team Britain. If we are all so British why do many of us still have a strong national Identity? Why do sports people when representing Britain still say they are scottish or English or Welsh? Even if it was just scotland that wanted to still be scotland it would seem you would be in the minority as even the sportsmen like Coulthard and Andy murray who represent britain still class themselves as Scottish?

People are happy to stay part of Britain for things such as the economy and Business but still class themselves as English or Scottish and very much think that their country is still a country.

You need to give yourself a shake!

[HFC 0-7]

I live in Spain and some of the comments here, especially prior to the humbling from Switzerland, were worse than anything I can recall from English commentators. One reporter actually stated that the game against Switzerland would be the first of 7 Spain would play in the World Cup. No ifs or buts about it. They were a certainty for the final. Thankfully it has calmed down a bit since the Switzerland game.

The Spanish media actually hold the England team in very high regard and consider(ed) them among the favourites. In fact, I fail to understand why they rate them so highly. I think it's got a lot to do with hype surrounding the EPL which they see a lot of here and they fail to notice how few of the best players are actually English.

I'm Scottish by the way and don't like the England team at all so I have no reason to make this up.

Spain are a better team and have had success recently so they can expect to do well. England have failed for the last few major competitions and were less than convincing in the warm up games so they dont have anything to back their arrogance with. Yes European countries like Spain may say that England could be contenders to win the cup but they dont say they deserve to win it before a ball is kicked.

If you look at Englands performances of late, plus their runs in Euro tournaments and World cups recently why should they think they deserve to win it. Spain on the other hand have done well recently in games and recent major events so why shouldnt they be overly confident.

[Phil MaGlass]

Scottish not British, will not and never will support a British team at any sport/s. Good luck tae the english in the worlsd cup, but again I wont be supporting them. Never in my whole life have I felt British, not even with 5 years in the army .
I do not have a chip on my shoulder, Im just not British. Why should we also give up our national team cos some tory twa1 said it would be a good idea, folk with these ideas would be better supporting the huns than Hibs.I also see Hibs as Scottish not British but hey thats just me.

Oh aye before some numbskull comes up with the "but what does it say on your passport" cra9, thats through circumstance not my choice.

[PeeJay]

Eh? How are we not a country? Yes we are part of Britain but we are also part of Europe! Should we just have a european football team and play the other continents, after all we chose to be part of europe.

England, Northern Ireland and Wales wouldnt want to be part of a team Britain. If we are all so British why do many of us still have a strong national Identity? Why do sports people when representing Britain still say they are scottish or English or Welsh? Even if it was just scotland that wanted to still be scotland it would seem you would be in the minority as even the sportsmen like Coulthard and Andy murray who represent britain still class themselves as Scottish?

People are happy to stay part of Britain for things such as the economy and Business but still class themselves as English or Scottish and very much think that their country is still a country.

You need to give yourself a shake!

Here in Germany I'm often asked why the UK has four teams and not just the one "it should be entitled to" from a German POV - a fair point? Bavaria is just as much a country as Scotland, after all, and Bavarian national identity means just as much to them as being Scottish to Scotland. (i.e. - "I'm Bavarian then German, then European ...")

It's all made very confusing for Germans of course by, e.g. there being one British Olympic team but 4x football teams (Scottish/Welsh/Irish and ... English).

Germany is in two minds about it: some consider having the UK having 4 teams to be unjustified, while others think it just means the UK teams will never win anything because of the division.

[HFC 0-7]

Here in Germany I'm often asked why the UK has four teams and not just the one "it should be entitled to" from a German POV - a fair point? Bavaria is just as much a country as Scotland, after all, and Bavarian national identity means just as much to them as being Scottish to Scotland. (i.e. - "I'm Bavarian then German, then European ...")

It's all made very confusing for Germans of course by, e.g. there being one British Olympic team but 4x football teams (Scottish/Welsh/Irish and ... English).

Germany is in two minds about it: some consider having the UK having 4 teams to be unjustified, while others think it just means the UK teams will never win anything because of the division.

Correct me if I am wrong but was bavaria ever a country? I dont think it was I think it has always been a region possibly a free state long ago.

Britain is NOT a country it is a Kingdom, Hence United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland is further removed from britain in that it has seperate laws from England and Wales.

People classing themselves as bavarian before german is something that has happened in other countries long ago. Take Scotland for example, they used to have clans and they would align themselves with the clans not the countries.

Scotland is a country!

[cheltenhamhibee]

no i wouldn't, but supposedly we are recognised as the united kingdom and i feel that in the future we should be furthering this into sport, as we have in the gb athletics team. To me, personally, it's like saying that you will cheer on a scottish sprinter in a 4x100m relay, then boo when the baton comes to the english one. To me, it's hard to understand why we have these opinions.

I don't hold any ill opinion towards sunderland fans or newcastle fans, just like with hearts fans, i see it as a rivalry, but i don't post hateful or vulgar comments simply because it's what other fans say. If hearts got into the european final, although i'd be inclined to supporting them. That's just my own views on how i like to support teams, as you all have your own views.

Like i have said i am only looking to hear out people's reasoning behind the comments/opinions and instead i get people retaliating as if i have just told them to jump off a bridge. Sad way to see a discussion descend into an argument before an opinion has been voiced.

l t y f

[mickki40]

I live in Spain and some of the comments here, especially prior to the humbling from Switzerland, were worse than anything I can recall from English commentators. One reporter actually stated that the game against Switzerland would be the first of 7 Spain would play in the World Cup. No ifs or buts about it. They were a certainty for the final. Thankfully it has calmed down a bit since the Switzerland game.

The Spanish media actually hold the England team in very high regard and consider(ed) them among the favourites. In fact, I fail to understand why they rate them so highly. I think it's got a lot to do with hype surrounding the EPL which they see a lot of here and they fail to notice how few of the best players are actually English.

I'm Scottish by the way and don't like the England team at all so I have no reason to make this up.

The thing about this is that Scotland do not share a media with Spain so comments made about other teams fall upon deaf ears. Germany in the week prior to the world cup showed every German World cup Victory from the past, as did Uruguay And Brazil. The English are always told by Scots they are sick of hearing about "66", We never hear about Lisbon Lions or that 67 Game do we??? It is just a media regurgitating the same old S%^&e that a nation is so blinkered in it's view of England it Doesn't even Bother to look elsewhere at what other nations do, Just to emphasise how much My friend Who is a scot living in Preston said " here we go again, their showing the 1966 game again" it was on a european channel not a British channel, he forgot to mention that or the fact that every World Cup Winning Nation also were showing games from past era's. So at least look for more diverse Media coverage please before criticising just the English media ta.

[mickki40]

Aw get off yer high horse ffs !!! no i wont give you names because i cant really be arsed ..just like i cant be arsed with all this England hype ....oh before i trot off to work ..i hope England get humped the morn ..in fact i hope they get humped everytime they play ..i dont like them but you may have guessed ...but hey ,,it aint bigotry or even hatred ..its called rivalry ...

Get over it ...:bye:

Names, places times channels please... or are you finding it difficult to find these phantom quotes?? you have the chance to put me right on the media and shove it up an England fans ass but you aint taking the chance? I wonder why?

[Dinkydoo]

I wouldn't support Hearts in Europe.....

Therefore wouldn't support England at the World Cup; the arrogance of the English media and commentator's is simply the cherry on the cake for me.

Come on Solvenia!

[Twa Cairpets]

Names, places times channels please... or are you finding it difficult to find these phantom quotes?? you have the chance to put me right on the media and shove it up an England fans ass but you aint taking the chance? I wonder why?

Mike Parry, TalkSport, yesterday morning. I paraphrase obviously because strangely enough i didnt record it. "England will beat them [Slovenia] on Wednesday and i expect after that we'll forget all about these problems and go on to lift the Cup".

If you wish to draw semantic boundaries between "will" and "can" when it comes to football comments then feel free. In this context a significant proportion of the English media clearly feel it is their right and destiny to win the World Cup, and the manner in which they talk - for example, their condescending attitude towards "small" countries - are almost designed to get the backs up of everyone outside their Little England bubble. Scotland, if you hadn't noticed, is a small country - make no mistake that when it comes to football, we are patronised and regarded as beneath contempt.

Your argument about "needing to prove" the bombastic pomposity of English pundits and media is ludicrous. It is self evident.

[aberhibsfc]

And im the one being naive! Nation states are the way we (i.e. humans) have decided to divide our selves up, and it follows that football has similarly done this - these are national competitions played for by countries (not continents, geographic areas or any other form of division).

Scotland is not a country, so i dont see why we should have our own football team - we choose to be part of the UK, so i dont see why we shouldnt be subsumed into a UK team.

All this hypocritical nonsense about no team GB just highlights how petty too many Scots are that they dont care about being a proper country, as long as they have a (crap) football team to play Braveheart to half a dozen times a year, sinf Flowr of Scotland and the Bonnie Banks

You cristicise Scotland for not wanting to be part being of a GB team, but are not acknowledging
that of the others home nations reject such an idea, England included. There was some early propeganda played out by the London Olympic committee attempting to shame Scotland into a GB team, which deliberately
ommits the fact the other FA's declined to take part.

You also say that we are not a nation but keep referring to us as Scots.

Your argument has more holes than a Mole ridden golf course.

[Part/Time Supporter]

I live in Spain and some of the comments here, especially prior to the humbling from Switzerland, were worse than anything I can recall from English commentators. One reporter actually stated that the game against Switzerland would be the first of 7 Spain would play in the World Cup. No ifs or buts about it. They were a certainty for the final. Thankfully it has calmed down a bit since the Switzerland game.

The Spanish media actually hold the England team in very high regard and consider(ed) them among the favourites. In fact, I fail to understand why they rate them so highly. I think it's got a lot to do with hype surrounding the EPL which they see a lot of here and they fail to notice how few of the best players are actually English.

I'm Scottish by the way and don't like the England team at all so I have no reason to make this up.

In fairness, at least Spain won Euro 2008 and with a bit of style as well. England haven't even reached a major final (Europe or World) since 1966.

The following European teams have:

Spain
Germany / West Germany
Italy
France
Greece
Portugal
Czech Republic
Denmark
Netherlands
Soviet Union
Belgium
Czechoslovakia

[mickki40]

Mike Parry, TalkSport, yesterday morning. I paraphrase obviously because strangely enough i didnt record it. "England will beat them [Slovenia] on Wednesday and i expect after that we'll forget all about these problems and go on to lift the Cup".

If you wish to draw semantic boundaries between "will" and "can" when it comes to football comments then feel free. In this context a significant proportion of the English media clearly feel it is their right and destiny to win the World Cup, and the manner in which they talk - for example, their condescending attitude towards "small" countries - are almost designed to get the backs up of everyone outside their Little England bubble. Scotland, if you hadn't noticed, is a small country - make no mistake that when it comes to football, we are patronised and regarded as beneath contempt.

Your argument about "needing to prove" the bombastic pomposity of English pundits and media is ludicrous. It is self evident.
I have contacted Talk Sport via the email system and asked the Question If Mike Parry Yesterday said England will win the World Cup. I am awaiting the reply but will inform you of any progress

[PeeJay]

Correct me if I am wrong but was bavaria ever a country? I dont think it was I think it has always been a region possibly a free state long ago.

Britain is NOT a country it is a Kingdom, Hence United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland is further removed from britain in that it has seperate laws from England and Wales.

People classing themselves as bavarian before german is something that has happened in other countries long ago. Take Scotland for example, they used to have clans and they would align themselves with the clans not the countries.

Scotland is a country!

Chambers definition:
Country noun (countries) 1 an area of land distinguished from other areas by its culture, climate, inhabitants, political boundery, etc. 2 the population of such an area of land. 3 a nation or state. 4 one's native land.

All the above attributes apply to Bavaria even if it is now part of a German Federal Republic, and it certainly regards itself to be a country even within that republic. I think a certain similarity is evident here with Scotland's membership of the UK.
I'm not quite sure of what you mean by country though. Britain or the UK is indeed a country in my eyes and would also seem to be borne out by the definition. My British / UK passport would also seem to suggest so. If you do not regard Britain or the UK to be a country, then what makes you think Scotland is one?

[Twa Cairpets]

I have contacted Talk Sport via the email system and asked the Question If Mike Parry Yesterday said England will win the World Cup. I am awaiting the reply but will inform you of any progress

Any thought regarding the rest of the post which was the meat of the matter? If and when TalkSport come back and confirm, it doesn't, oddly enough, disprove your point. I actually think you are right - very few commentators do overtly claim that they will win the World Cup. It's the whinging that really they should/deserve to because after all they are England (yes, paraphrase again, dont ask me for a source) that gets me.

The claims that Germany and USA have an unfair advantage because theyve played with the new ball, that Germany are not really playing the game by having foreign born players, that Tunisia and these minnows dont really deserve the right to compete at such prestigious tournaments, etc that cant help but push you towards a fervent hope that they crumble horribly

[mickki40]

Any thought regarding the rest of the post which was the meat of the matter? If and when TalkSport come back and confirm, it doesn't, oddly enough, disprove your point. I actually think you are right - very few commentators do overtly claim that they will win the World Cup. It's the whinging that really they should/deserve to because after all they are England (yes, paraphrase again, dont ask me for a source) that gets me.

The claims that Germany and USA have an unfair advantage because theyve played with the new ball, that Germany are not really playing the game by having foreign born players, that Tunisia and these minnows dont really deserve the right to compete at such prestigious tournaments, etc that cant help but push you towards a fervent hope that they crumble horribly
What I am saying is that the amount of people who hear this is a high proportion of Scots, however not 1 and I mean not 1 will give me names dates etc. I am checking with Talk Sport to see if I am missing something here. I worked with the media for 10 years and know how bad some people in that industry can be with hidden agendas, I am merely trying to show a point that people as a whole just automatically spout what has been told to them as gospel truth and haven't even heard anything, but They truly believe they have and keep spouting that same crap that has gone on for decades. I originally posted a story about the Scottish Suns headline about England Planning a world cup victory Parade, I shot that down in Flames and the journalist wouldn't even reply to me( neither did his Editor). Like I said I am just highlighting peoples ability to just make up stories with no substance in them at all and the rest of the people to latch onto the story and accept what is in effect a story without substance.

[HFC 0-7]

Chambers definition:
Country noun (countries) 1 an area of land distinguished from other areas by its culture, climate, inhabitants, political boundery, etc. 2 the population of such an area of land. 3 a nation or state. 4 one's native land.

All the above attributes apply to Bavaria even if it is now part of a German Federal Republic, and it certainly regards itself to be a country even within that republic. I think a certain similarity is evident here with Scotland's membership of the UK.
I'm not quite sure of what you mean by country though. Britain or the UK is indeed a country in my eyes and would also seem to be borne out by the definition. My British / UK passport would also seem to suggest so. If you do not regard Britain or the UK to be a country, then what makes you think Scotland is one?

Great Britain / United Kingdom is a soverign state.

The United Kingdon / Great Britain is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries England, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

Would you class Bermuda or Anguilla as British as they afterall are British territories.

Bavaria is not listed as a seperate country where as Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland are.

[HFC 0-7]

What I am saying is that the amount of people who hear this is a high proportion of Scots, however not 1 and I mean not 1 will give me names dates etc. I am checking with Talk Sport to see if I am missing something here. I worked with the media for 10 years and know how bad some people in that industry can be with hidden agendas, I am merely trying to show a point that people as a whole just automatically spout what has been told to them as gospel truth and haven't even heard anything, but They truly believe they have and keep spouting that same crap that has gone on for decades. I originally posted a story about the Scottish Suns headline about England Planning a world cup victory Parade, I shot that down in Flames and the journalist wouldn't even reply to me( neither did his Editor). Like I said I am just highlighting peoples ability to just make up stories with no substance in them at all and the rest of the people to latch onto the story and accept what is in effect a story without substance.

If there is a hidden agenda, why do they have that agenda? What made them do it? Why would they portray England in such a bad light?

[Fisherrow_Hibs]

Simple,

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b175/FeedTheFish1314/1h7cxu.jpg

[Twa Cairpets]

What I am saying is that the amount of people who hear this is a high proportion of Scots, however not 1 and I mean not 1 will give me names dates etc. I am checking with Talk Sport to see if I am missing something here. I worked with the media for 10 years and know how bad some people in that industry can be with hidden agendas, I am merely trying to show a point that people as a whole just automatically spout what has been told to them as gospel truth and haven't even heard anything, but They truly believe they have and keep spouting that same crap that has gone on for decades. I originally posted a story about the Scottish Suns headline about England Planning a world cup victory Parade, I shot that down in Flames and the journalist wouldn't even reply to me( neither did his Editor). Like I said I am just highlighting peoples ability to just make up stories with no substance in them at all and the rest of the people to latch onto the story and accept what is in effect a story without substance.

non-stories / "Urban legend" type things such as this victory parade are really at the edges of this debate though. Disproving a couple of specific stupidities does not mean that you have destroyed any argument for people being of an ABE stance. The fact that the atmosphere surrounding the English national team is one in which such a story could be relatively unquestioningly believed must surely be more of a concern?

I am totally with you for challenging lazy assumptions and acceptance of received wisdom, but the mainstream media do - as Fisherrows very apt example shows - do display an arrogance worthy of contempt. Maybe you need to be other than English to see it.

[PeeJay]

Great Britain / United Kingdom is a soverign state.

The United Kingdon / Great Britain is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries England, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

Would you class Bermuda or Anguilla as British as they afterall are British territories.

Bavaria is not listed as a seperate country where as Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland are.

Listed where? FIFA?
Bavaria is a nation state (country) within the federal parliamentary republic of German states - it has its own culture, language, dialect, political boundaries, constitution, parliament, police, laws and beer and sausages - what makes you think it is any less of a country than Scotland? Bavarians would be mighty upset at any such suggestion?
Surely theres is acase for the real comparison being: Britain = Germany or Scotland = Bavaria?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Eh? How are we not a country? Yes we are part of Britain but we are also part of Europe! Should we just have a european football team and play the other continents, after all we chose to be part of europe.

England, Northern Ireland and Wales wouldnt want to be part of a team Britain. If we are all so British why do many of us still have a strong national Identity? Why do sports people when representing Britain still say they are scottish or English or Welsh? Even if it was just scotland that wanted to still be scotland it would seem you would be in the minority as even the sportsmen like Coulthard and Andy murray who represent britain still class themselves as Scottish?

People are happy to stay part of Britain for things such as the economy and Business but still class themselves as English or Scottish and very much think that their country is still a country.

You need to give yourself a shake!

What does your passport say again?

Wales is not a country, it is a principality, and Northern Ireland is not a country either, i think it is a province (but correct me if i am wrong).

No, we shouldnt have a European team, because these competitions are for countries, and Scotland is not a country - it is a region in a much larger country. A country whose capital city (our capital city, London) is hosting an olympics where all Scottish athletes will represent GB except our football team, who dosnae want to play with everyone else, because we dinnae like them.

Yorkshiremen will tell they are from Yorkshire, should they get to play in the World Cup? What about Cornwall? Norfolk? Lancashire?

[mickki40]

non-stories / "Urban legend" type things such as this victory parade are really at the edges of this debate though. Disproving a couple of specific stupidities does not mean that you have destroyed any argument for people being of an ABE stance. The fact that the atmosphere surrounding the English national team is one in which such a story could be relatively unquestioningly believed must surely be more of a concern?

I am totally with you for challenging lazy assumptions and acceptance of received wisdom, but the mainstream media do - as Fisherrows very apt example shows - do display an arrogance worthy of contempt. Maybe you need to be other than English to see it.

My intolerance of the Sun is shared by a lot of people either side of the border I should think, headlines like that do nothing but stoke embers, just like the Scottish Suns Story about England Planning a world cup parade, It's like the Media would want to keep the England v Scotland thing going just to sell more papers, surely they wouldn't do that??? ... would they?..surely not.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You cristicise Scotland for not wanting to be part being of a GB team, but are not acknowledging
that of the others home nations reject such an idea, England included. There was some early propeganda played out by the London Olympic committee attempting to shame Scotland into a GB team, which deliberately
ommits the fact the other FA's declined to take part.

You also say that we are not a nation but keep referring to us as Scots.

Your argument has more holes than a Mole ridden golf course.


Sorry, you misunderstand me. I am a Scot, but for reasons of our OWN choosing, we are not a nation, we are not a country - we (all of us Scots i mean) CHOOSE not to be a nation and not to be a country. I dont agree, but i accept the majority dont want us to be a country.

Therefore i think it is rich, and typical of the whingeing Scottish attitude that hold us back, where we will moan like falkirk about a rubbish wee football team, get all braveheart about 'hating the english' but then continue to CHOOSE not to be a country. I dont think we should have both - we should lie in the bed we have made - team UK it is.

[mickki40]

If there is a hidden agenda, why do they have that agenda? What made them do it? Why would they portray England in such a bad light? How do you p.m. on here, I will give you examples of agendas in the Scottish media that means if your'e a protestant you will not get to work on certain programmes. I cannot post for obvious reasons on this forum, I am however happy to post p.m to you as long as you do not publish

[aberhibsfc]

What does your passport say again?

Wales is not a country, it is a principality, and Northern Ireland is not a country either, i think it is a province (but correct me if i am wrong).

No, we shouldnt have a European team, because these competitions are for countries, and Scotland is not a country - it is a region in a much larger country. A country whose capital city (our capital city, London) is hosting an olympics where all Scottish athletes will represent GB except our football team, who dosnae want to play with everyone else, because we dinnae like them.

Yorkshiremen will tell they are from Yorkshire, should they get to play in the World Cup? What about Cornwall? Norfolk? Lancashire?

Once again Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are chastised, what about England. How do they figure in all this. The argument is regurgitated over and over but England are never brought into question.

Does anyone honestly think that England and it's FA would concede it's identity to be known as GB.

But it doesn't stop people trotting out this Scotland's the bad guy for no team GB.

Have a scroll through this thread and see how many for and against.

I also dare you to take your case to an English based football website and see what they want.

I think you might be surprised to find you are in a minority.

[Purehibee_MYB]

What does your passport say again?

Wales is not a country, it is a principality, and Northern Ireland is not a country either, i think it is a province (but correct me if i am wrong).

No, we shouldnt have a European team, because these competitions are for countries, and Scotland is not a country - it is a region in a much larger country. A country whose capital city (our capital city, London) is hosting an olympics where all Scottish athletes will represent GB except our football team, who dosnae want to play with everyone else, because we dinnae like them.

Yorkshiremen will tell they are from Yorkshire, should they get to play in the World Cup? What about Cornwall? Norfolk? Lancashire?


My passport just says and I checked, that I am from Scotland, whereas someone from yorkshires passport would say England...Does Yorkshire have its own Govt? no. Is it Britain going for the World Cup in 2018? No it's England... Scotland is its own Country hence the Commonwealth games in Scotland, and that bid for the Euro 2012 in Scotland and Wales...Not Britain.. they are their own countries, Just like the Isle of Man etc, Crown Dependencies, except wales. The olympics is basically the only sporting example of it being Britain.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Great Britain / United Kingdom is a soverign state.

The United Kingdon / Great Britain is a constitutional monarchy and unitary state consisting of four countries England, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

Would you class Bermuda or Anguilla as British as they afterall are British territories.

Bavaria is not listed as a seperate country where as Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland are.

Listed where?

At the UN? As members of the EU? Do we have a PM, can we go to war? Do we have a currency, or a passport? Do we have a national bank, do we have a tax collecting body?

The UK is a country, England, Scotland, Wales and NI dont exist as countries (as much as we can all protest that they do). They are certainly no more countries than Bavaria (im no expert but i suspect Bavaria prob has more political authority and autonomy than most if not all of the devolved regions of the UK.

Scotland is a region of the UK, we have some devolved powers certainly, and are now fairly autonomous, but one of the reserved areas is broadcasting, so broadcasting aims at the UK, and most of our fello countrymen happen to be English, therefore the media is geared towards them.

That is the situation that we choose to be in, so people moaning about the 'English' media is just tiresome

[Velma Dinkley]

Of course Scotland is a country - one of the countries that makes up the United Kingdom of Great Britain. Great Britain is the name of the island. I honestly never imagined I would ever hear someone say Scotland is not a country. Not even a wee kid!

In any case, Scotland and England created international football. Why would the two oldest international football teams in the world not deserve to compete as separate teams?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

My passport just says and I checked, that I am from Scotland, whereas someone from yorkshires passport would say England...Does Yorkshire have its own Govt? no. Is it Britain going for the World Cup in 2018? No it's England... Scotland is its own Country hence the Commonwealth games in Scotland, and that bid for the Euro 2012 in Scotland and Wales...Not Britain.. they are their own countries, Just like the Isle of Man etc, Crown Dependencies, except wales. The olympics is basically the only sporting example of it being Britain.

You're wrong. Manchester just hosted the Commenwealth Games, what does that prove?

Really, your passport says you are from Scotland? Must have a funny kind of passport then!

The Isle of Mann is not a country! Either is Jersey or Guernsey.

You are right, Scotland England etc are treated as seperate countries in footballing terms, but that is the anomaly here - and one that other countries (quite rightly) get annoyed about.

Id love to see your Scottish passport, can i have one too?

[mickki40]

Once again Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are chastised, what about England. How do they figure in all this. The argument is regurgitated over and over but England are never brought into question.

Does anyone honestly think that England and it's FA would concede it's identity to be known as GB.

But it doesn't stop people trotting out this Scotland's the bad guy for no team GB.

Have a scroll through this thread and see how many for and against.

I also dare you to take your case to an English based football website and see what they want.

I think you might be surprised to find you are in a minority.
I am English and wouldn't want a team G.B. at all. Also can state most English I know wouldn't give a toss one way or another. I like the four nations different identities and feel no need to Have 1 Super F.A.

[Purehibee_MYB]

You're wrong. Manchester just hosted the Commenwealth Games, what does that prove?

Really, your passport says you are from Scotland? Must have a funny kind of passport then!

The Isle of Mann is not a country! Either is Jersey or Guernsey.

You are right, Scotland England etc are treated as seperate countries in footballing terms, but that is the anomaly here - and one that other countries (quite rightly) get annoyed about.

Id love to see your Scottish passport, can i have one too?

It proves that it is not GB most of the time, and yeah it says Birthplace Scotland... whereas someone from englands would say birthplace England... Two different countries under the same kingdom

And really you might want to tell all the people and the government of the Isle of Man that they aren't their own country... Cos they would tell you you're wrong... it has its own government, and doesn't have to listen to the UK at all, it has its own money, and manages it itself...and if it wanted to be it could be it's own part of the EU... and the Queen and UK government have no power in the Isle of Man, how therefore is it not a country?

[Twa Cairpets]

How do you p.m. on here, I will give you examples of agendas in the Scottish media that means if your'e a protestant you will not get to work on certain programmes. I cannot post for obvious reasons on this forum, I am however happy to post p.m to you as long as you do not publish

Och away and dinnae slaver.

You're now trying to conflate some kind of bigoted Scot with religious based media bias.

I don't doubt for one minute that there are examples of religious or racial prejudice denying people opportunity in all ares of society. I've worked in manufacturing sales environments where you know that protestants will only buy from protestants, catholics from catholics, muslims from muslims and masons from masons. It does happen, overtly and covertly and I've seen it happen. It doesnt mean there are underlying "agendas" it just mean there are still small-minded bigoted individuals out there. Scotland has as many as anywhere, in my experience, but it still doesnt mean that you can take these relatively few examples and extrapolate it to an underlying societal bigotry, especially when it comes to football.

[steviehfc]

I agree with you. You are a bigot.

Funny, I thought the media were showing all the world cup games right to the final. Really shocking that the 'English' media might continue to talk about England right enough.:yawn: I thought the BBC was the British Broadcasting Corporation, not the English Broadcasting Corporation as it would regularly appear to be. I really couldn't give a to$$ what the England camp are up to while trying to watch the Spain game for example. And as i said, if disliking the english attitude makes me a bigot then so be it. I won't be losing any sleep over it. If that bothers you, tough, again i won't be losing any sleep.

[Phil D. Rolls]

There was an interview on BBC last night from Wimbledon. Some ignorant girl sipping Pimms said of Murray, "he seems to have been working harder to ingratiate himself to the British people".

That failure to recognise what British actually means has always been at the cornerstone of my frustration with the Union. She, and many others, couldn't see that Murray is British. British to her, meant English.

We were British enough when they needed cannon fodder to prop up the empire, but to them we were always secondary citizens tagged onto their country.

[Hainan Hibs]

There was an interview on BBC last night from Wimbledon. Some ignorant girl sipping Pimms said of Murray, "he seems to have been working harder to ingratiate himself to the British people".

That failure to recognise what British actually means has always been at the cornerstone of my frustration with the Union. She, and many others, couldn't see that Murray is British. British to her, meant English.

We were British enough when they needed cannon fodder to prop up the empire, but to them we were always secondary citizens tagged onto their country.

According to Helen Mirren it was Britain who drew with USA at football. It has also been a frustration for me that a significant number of English people don't recognise the difference between England and Britain, and it is probably a big cause of the confusion a number of people abroad have about the difference also.

[aberhibsfc]

There was an interview on BBC last night from Wimbledon. Some ignorant girl sipping Pimms said of Murray, "he seems to have been working harder to ingratiate himself to the British people".

That failure to recognise what British actually means has always been at the cornerstone of my frustration with the Union. She, and many others, couldn't see that Murray is British. British to her, meant English.

We were British enough when they needed cannon fodder to prop up the empire, but to them we were always secondary citizens tagged onto their country.

:top marks

I had to laugh when David Becks Beckham handed over the FA's dossier to FIFA for Englands
World Cup bid. If anyone had a keen eye, you will have noticed there was a map of the UK on it. I mean ffs their ignorance has no bounds.

They even have the audacity to brandish themselves as the 'FA' whilst every other nation accepts that it is their country then association/federation.

[Part/Time Supporter]

:top marks

I had to laugh when David Becks Beckham handed over the FA's dossier to FIFA for Englands
World Cup bid. If anyone had a keen eye, you will have noticed there was a map of the UK on it. I mean ffs their ignorance has no bounds.

They even have the audacity to brandish themselves as the 'FA' whilst every other nation accepts that it is their country then association/federation.

That's an easy one. Their FA was founded before there were associations / federations / whatever in other countries. Ergo, it was "the" FA. If football had developed without borders it may have become the FA for the whole world, as there wasn't anything in its constitution limiting it to England, Britain, Europe or whatever geographic area you choose to mention. Indeed, even in its present state it has jurisdiction over football in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, which are quasi-independent of the UK.

[The_Todd]

So a question to our OP: Should the final of the World Cup end up being Brazil v Spain, Argentina v Italy, Mexcio v Germany, or any permutation which allows an EU nation to play against a South American one will you be on here demanding everyone support our own EU consituent country?

Hmm?

[ekhibee]

Looks like many comments on here haven't read many of the posts properly, taking what sentence/phrase into account and twisting it so they can come back with a jab at the original poster. That's the problem with many posters.

A lot of comments seem to be about claiming they aren't bigots or that I shouldn't call them a bigot, if whoever has commented something similar; read my post again which I'm sure says that I can't understand why we say bigoted things about England in general. I haven't called anyone a bigot or suggested that at all, misunderstanding on that person's part.

Thanks to the odd one or two posters sticking to the topic, rather than criticising mine or another's original post. :wink:
Well Stuart, you've raised an issue in your opening post that encourages strong opinions, I suppose that's a good thing in many respects. Personally, I find the media in England, most of them anyway, dirogatory towards Scottish football,tucked away safely in their plush London residences. It's not just the Scottish that they use stereotypes on. On BBC Lineker and co (including Hansen) assume almost every time that Adebayor is supporting every African team that's taking part. He's not from Nigeria,Ghana,Ivory Coast,Cameroon or South Africa. He's from Togo, a completely seperate country obviously. It's their presumptions which are annoying, not always the people themselves. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

[Jim44]

Is the bottom line not simply that most of us object to the overstated jingoism of the English media and punditry? They are so annoying and insistent that we can't help wanting to see them fall on their @rses. With the exception of one or two of their players, I've nothing against the team and in fact, as I've stated before, I've a grudging admiration for them. Why do I want to see them beaten, then? Simples, I firmly believe that 'schadenfreude' is a vital and enjoyable part of supporting football.......................they're English and our most prominent international opponents, I'm Scottish, enough said? Nothing bigoted there. :dunno: C'mon Slovenia.

[basehibby]

You're wrong. Manchester just hosted the Commenwealth Games, what does that prove?

Really, your passport says you are from Scotland? Must have a funny kind of passport then!

The Isle of Mann is not a country! Either is Jersey or Guernsey.

You are right, Scotland England etc are treated as seperate countries in footballing terms, but that is the anomaly here - and one that other countries (quite rightly) get annoyed about.

Id love to see your Scottish passport, can i have one too?

The other countries who get annoyed are slavering in a similar agenda driven manner to yourself - Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales were playing international football long before FIFA or UEFA ever existed and long before any other country had a football team at all - this is (rightly) recognised by FIFA as justification for making an exception to their rules for membership on the grounds that these COUNTRIES not only pre-existed FIFA by decades but were also responsible for codifying the game in the first place.

Your rigidly narrow interpretation of a "country" or "nation" is thankfully not shared by FIFA or many other international sporting bodies (eg. Rugby, Cricket, Bowls) which means that the vast majority of Scots are still able to enjoy the national teams which you so strongly object to.

We are not the only example of the lines being blured in FIFA's rule books by the way. How about the following examples???:

Faroe islands - a province of denmark

Andorra - a principality (like Wales???) which names the president of France as it’s co-monarch

Bermuda - a British teritory

French Guiana - an overseas region of France

Guadelupe - ditto

Netherlands Antilles - part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands

US Virgin Islands - an overseas US Territory

Guam - ditto

Chinese Taipei (Taiwan) - an independant state or part of China depending on who you ask.

Macau - a special administrative region of the People's Republic of China

Palestine - Representing the West Bank and the Gazza strip - only recently and loosely recognized as a country - I certainly wouldn't deny them the right to play football as a nation - would you???

[Bishop Hibee]

How do you p.m. on here, I will give you examples of agendas in the Scottish media that means if your'e a protestant you will not get to work on certain programmes. I cannot post for obvious reasons on this forum, I am however happy to post p.m to you as long as you do not publish

What a load of cobblers. Put up or shut up. This sounds like something straight from the Follow Follow website :bitchy:

[HFC 0-7]

Listed where?

At the UN? As members of the EU? Do we have a PM, can we go to war? Do we have a currency, or a passport? Do we have a national bank, do we have a tax collecting body?

The UK is a country, England, Scotland, Wales and NI dont exist as countries (as much as we can all protest that they do). They are certainly no more countries than Bavaria (im no expert but i suspect Bavaria prob has more political authority and autonomy than most if not all of the devolved regions of the UK.

Scotland is a region of the UK, we have some devolved powers certainly, and are now fairly autonomous, but one of the reserved areas is broadcasting, so broadcasting aims at the UK, and most of our fello countrymen happen to be English, therefore the media is geared towards them.

That is the situation that we choose to be in, so people moaning about the 'English' media is just tiresome

Scotland is a country and if you research anything about Great Britain it is not classed as a country but a soverign state made up of 4 countries. How can you deny that?

No we dont have a PM as the reason we decided to be part of the UK was a political one, not a decision to stop scotland being a country and have britain as being the country.

You say that our fellow countrymen are english, not my fellow countrymen. My fellow countrymen are scottish. I think you would be very much in the minority if you classed your fellow countrymen as British, English, Welsh and Northern Irish would mostly all say that their fellow countrymen are either Scottish, English, Welsh or Northern irish.

So what if the media are geared towards England, does that make it OK to overlook the recent failures in large tournaments from England, assume that because England has possibly the best league in the world that the national team therefore must be just as good even although the top team are mostly made up of foreigners!

The England commentators are blinded by the premierships success and forget that its mostly the foreign players that are making it the best. I hate that when watching an England game all we constantly hear is that England are doing this and that wrong and hardly ever complimenting the opposition, it seems that if England dont win its not because of the opposition playing well but because England played badly. Thats one of the reasons England dont get the results because they go into games thinking they have it won.

With all the mince you are spouting I am starting to wonder whether you are at the wind up.

[HFC 0-7]

How do you p.m. on here, I will give you examples of agendas in the Scottish media that means if your'e a protestant you will not get to work on certain programmes. I cannot post for obvious reasons on this forum, I am however happy to post p.m to you as long as you do not publish

You can PM me if you want, but what you want to PM me with is nothing to do with what we were talking about. You said that its the scottish press that are basically making things up regarding English. I asked why would they do this? If they are doing it what made them do it, ie, why does the scottish media not like England?

PM me with any proof you have please!

[jgl07]

The Isle of Mann is not a country! Either is Jersey or Guernsey.

Technically Guernsey is a Bailiwick, as is Jersey. They and the Isle of Man are a self-governing crown dependencies.

None are members of the UK, or Great Britain, or England.

They have a similar status to Gibraltar.

[Diclonius]

What a really substandard myopic post. Why do we have to support England is more the question. It's seems to be derigeur among the unionist PC brigade like you to suggest that we support England to illustrate that we are a 'mature, grown-up' nation. *****.

I'm both a unionist and a fully paid-up member of the "PC brigade" and I'd be damned if I was supporting England at the World Cup. You'll find that many other people like myself share the same view.

This is nothing to do with political correctness - it's about a bunch of people trying to stick their heads above the rest in some sort of pseudo-grandeur moral high ground whilst in turn ****ting on one of the things that makes football what it is - rivalry.

Football isn't about doing what's "right" for everyone - I'll leave real life to that. It's about groups of fans openly taking pleasure in each other's downfall in a controlled environment, and that is one of the aspects of the beautiful game. This sudden resurgence in supporting England is down to their media cottoning on to the fact that we don't buy their bull**** and acting like a wounded animal, where in reality it's more akin to an elephant with a splinter.

Whilst I do not tolerate racism, Scotland in general has a genuine reason not to support England at the World Cup. I won't begrude anyone who chooses to - if you're really into the Union or have English links, or any other reason then fair enough - but don't go all holier-than-thou and try to force it on us. The 'bigoted' or 'racism' card is a cheap dig which only serves to further defacate on the value of your argument. This isn't political correctness, it's self-obsessed wanking. :bye:

[Phil D. Rolls]

What a really substandard myopic post. Why do we have to support England is more the question. It's seems to be derigeur among the unionist PC brigade like you to suggest that we support England to illustrate that we are a 'mature, grown-up' nation. *****.

For me it's down to the fooball rivalry (the oldest in the world); the completely biased; unbalanced London-centric media sensationalism and hype; which includes the total disregard and disrespect for the other home nations watching the WC...in any WC year, whether we're there or not. End of.

What the * are you on about? When was being a Unionist ever anything to do with PC? A post like this just confirms my suspicion that people who bandy terms like "PC brigade" around are simply not happy that someone disagrees with them.

I'm not a Unionist by the way.

[CraigHibee]

i'm scottish! im sure the english would support us in the world cup...........


think not!

im sick of all the hype the english team get although i think its hillarious at the minute as they are absolute gash.


England National Team

Making Scotland Look Good Since 2010 :wink:

[Bayern Bru]

Lawrenson and Guy Mowbray are two good enough reasons for me at the moment. :grr:

[ronaldo7]

Lawrenson and Guy Mowbray are two good enough reasons for me at the moment. :grr:

That Guy:wink: is and absolute plonker.

And I thought I was going to get a balanced view from the BBC. :grr:

England fever...WTF was that:grr:

[HFC 0-7]

The English commentators just annoy me so much. Listening to the game today they obviously regard themselves so very high as they compared the game to an FA cup match in that it was premiership vs Third Division.

One they rate themselves far to highly and secondly they have no respect for the opposition.

[judas]

The English commentators just annoy me so much. Listening to the game today they obviously regard themselves so very high as they compared the game to an FA cup match in that it was premiership vs Third Division.

One they rate themselves far to highly and secondly they have no respect for the opposition.

I heard the English commentators talking today about how the USA never give up.

I heard them talking about the class of Argentina and talking (wrongly in my view) about how Algeria were arguably the better team vs England.

And the english people? I heard about 20 calls go into talk sport right after the game from people who think England are average and will come to an end against better opposition.

Perhaps you hear what you want to hear?

Personally, I would like to see England win the world cup just to irritate you lot.

[Twa Cairpets]

I heard the English commentators talking today about how the USA never give up.

I heard them talking about the class of Argentina and talking (wrongly in my view) about how Algeria were arguably the better team vs England.

And the english people? I heard about 20 calls go into talk sport right after the game from people who think England are average and will come to an end against better opposition.

Perhaps you hear what you want to hear?

Personally, I would like to see England win the world cup just to irritate you lot.

Ah, so I imagined the almost entire commentary of the second half of the Germany Ghana game being a retropsective on England, who they'd play and at one stage a review of Englands performances in every World Cup since '66 and a review of every game they'd played against Germany too. At the beginning of the half he also came out with this:

"We've never played Ghana, but we've certainly played Germany, West Germany, East Germany, them Germans and another couple of Germanys I could mention too". Seriously WTF?

It might have been nice to have actually had some commentary on the game.

Personally I would like to see England get royally horsed and humiliated just to irritate you.

[marinello59]

Ah, so I imagined the almost entire commentary of the second half of the Germany Ghana game being a retropsective on England, who they'd play and at one stage a review of Englands performances in every World Cup since '66 and a review of every game they'd played against Germany too. At the beginning of the half he also came out with this:

"We've never played Ghana, but we've certainly played Germany, West Germany, East Germany, them Germans and another couple of Germanys I could mention too". Seriously WTF?

It might have been nice to have actually had some commentary on the game.

Personally I would like to see England get royally horsed and humiliated just to irritate you.

I actually thought that type of stuff played a very small part of the commentary. Seriously, if Scotland had been likely to qualify from a World Cup Group (fantasy stuff I know:boo hoo:) wouldn't our commentators have spent a fair portion of time mentioning potential opponents in the next round? If the commentary irritates, hit the mute button, relax and enjoy the action, we are at the knockout stage, the World Cup starts here.

[HFC 0-7]

I heard the English commentators talking today about how the USA never give up.

I heard them talking about the class of Argentina and talking (wrongly in my view) about how Algeria were arguably the better team vs England.

And the english people? I heard about 20 calls go into talk sport right after the game from people who think England are average and will come to an end against better opposition.

Perhaps you hear what you want to hear?

Personally, I would like to see England win the world cup just to irritate you lot.

You are certainly hearing what you want to hear. Do you think that the comments from the commentators regarding their opposition being classed as 3rd division when they are premiership class is right, do you not think that they have an inflated view of themselves using those comments. I think after the first 2 games a lot of people got a reality check on England and how good they are. My points have always been about England Commentators bias and the general views before the world cup started.

What have England done in the past few world cups and euro's to give the media and fans cause to think they are better than these teams? Yes there are FIFA rankings ans things but to be honest these rankings are a joke, I mean are England really 22 places better than Algeria?

England IMO are very much like the OLD firm when it comes to football, they hardly give any other team credit when its due, they moan about things as to why they lost the game when it really comes down to the fact they just arent good enough. They have the media in their pocket. They think they are far better than they actually are.

As to the bit in bold above, I would love to see England get humped out the worldcup because thats what rivalries are all about, I know plenty of english people that would think the same way if the tables were turned. I would also like to see them fail so they have yet another reality check as to how good they actually are, but will probably put it down to the manager who they will promptly show the door to only to appoint someone else and their grand claims can start all over again. And I would also like to see them get pumped out because of people like you.

[HFC 0-7]

I actually thought that type of stuff played a very small part of the commentary. Seriously, if Scotland had been likely to qualify from a World Cup Group (fantasy stuff I know:boo hoo:) wouldn't our commentators have spent a fair portion of time mentioning potential opponents in the next round? If the commentary irritates, hit the mute button, relax and enjoy the action, we are at the knockout stage, the World Cup starts here.

Thats the thing are they expected to qualify all the time? Are they that good. From what I have seen they are pretty lucky, they are not that good and they always seem to struggle of late in these comps.

Mentioning potentail oponents is one thing but blatantly disrespecting their opposition is stupid and un professional and is probably why people like to see them fail so that they can throw these comments back at them.

Yes we can hit the mute button but we shouldnt have to hear them with some of their comments.

[blackpoolhibs]

I heard the English commentators talking today about how the USA never give up.

I heard them talking about the class of Argentina and talking (wrongly in my view) about how Algeria were arguably the better team vs England.

And the english people? I heard about 20 calls go into talk sport right after the game from people who think England are average and will come to an end against better opposition.

Perhaps you hear what you want to hear?

Personally, I would like to see England win the world cup just to irritate you lot.

I dont suppose you heard Mike Parry this morning, writing off the Germans AND the Argentinians, and England are throught to the semi's now. :bitchy: **** England.

[aberhibsfc]

I can't see them getting past the Germans.

[Sprouleflyer]

Ah, so I imagined the almost entire commentary of the second half of the Germany Ghana game being a retropsective on England, who they'd play and at one stage a review of Englands performances in every World Cup since '66 and a review of every game they'd played against Germany too. At the beginning of the half he also came out with this:

"We've never played Ghana, but we've certainly played Germany, West Germany, East Germany, them Germans and another couple of Germanys I could mention too". Seriously WTF?

It might have been nice to have actually had some commentary on the game.

Personally I would like to see England get royally horsed and humiliated just to irritate you.

The co commentator was a lot better for the Germany V Ghana game last night. He kept saying throughout the game that whoever England face Germany or Ghana, they will be in for a very tough game. At the end of the game the co commentator was giving very high compliments to the Germans…..maybe he wasn't English?

[lapsedhibee]

whoever England face Germany or Ghana, they will be in for a very tough game

:agree: Engerlund simply don't have the mentality to overcome the Germans when it matters. The only fitba team in the UK constituency to have achieved this consistently is HOMFC, who inexplicably failed to qualify for these finals.

[blackpoolhibs]

:agree: Engerlund simply don't have the mentality to overcome the Germans when it matters. The only fitba team in the UK constituency to have achieved this consistently is HOMFC, who inexplicably failed to qualify for these finals.

They bowed out gracefully earlier, when they thought it was better for Britain,:wink: if they concentrated on Iraq for a little longer.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Scotland is a country and if you research anything about Great Britain it is not classed as a country but a soverign state made up of 4 countries. How can you deny that?

No we dont have a PM as the reason we decided to be part of the UK was a political one, not a decision to stop scotland being a country and have britain as being the country.

You say that our fellow countrymen are english, not my fellow countrymen. My fellow countrymen are scottish. I think you would be very much in the minority if you classed your fellow countrymen as British, English, Welsh and Northern Irish would mostly all say that their fellow countrymen are either Scottish, English, Welsh or Northern irish.

So what if the media are geared towards England, does that make it OK to overlook the recent failures in large tournaments from England, assume that because England has possibly the best league in the world that the national team therefore must be just as good even although the top team are mostly made up of foreigners!

The England commentators are blinded by the premierships success and forget that its mostly the foreign players that are making it the best. I hate that when watching an England game all we constantly hear is that England are doing this and that wrong and hardly ever complimenting the opposition, it seems that if England dont win its not because of the opposition playing well but because England played badly. Thats one of the reasons England dont get the results because they go into games thinking they have it won.

With all the mince you are spouting I am starting to wonder whether you are at the wind up.

Unfortunately mate you are wrong. Scotland is not a country, and has not been a country since 1707 when we signed our nationhood away to become part of a larger country called UK.

I think Scotland should be a country, and i vote for Scotland to be a country, but unfortunately the majority of Scots choose not to be, and would rather remain a region (allbeit one with some autonomy) of a much larger country called the UK.

And thats what annoys me about all this anti-English claptrap that comes from us every time England are in a tournament. We all go on about hating England, hating the Englsig media, 'im not British, im Scottish', but then when we have the opportunity to actually be a proper country, so that all of our passports say Scottish on them, we slink off with our tails between our legs and go back to taking up a subservient position and taking our pocket money that our national parliament at Westminster deems us worthy to receive.

Scotland is not a country, that is a fact. Yours and my capital city is London, our national parliament is at Westminster, our ruler is head of the government of the UK, who make all of our important decisions.

No amount of 90 minute patriotism or bi-annual 'English bashing' changes that, and in my opinion, makes us look like the embittered junior partners we really are, jealous at the attention our larger partner gets, but too brow-beaten and pathetic to actually do anything about it.

The UK media are supporting the UK team that are represented at the World Cup. Like it or not, they are our contrymen. That could all change, but apparently the people of Scotland dont want it to. Or do we want our cake and to eat it - us, Scots wanting the best of both worlds, surely not...

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The other countries who get annoyed are slavering in a similar agenda driven manner to yourself - Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales were playing international football long before FIFA or UEFA ever existed and long before any other country had a football team at all - this is (rightly) recognised by FIFA as justification for making an exception to their rules for membership on the grounds that these COUNTRIES not only pre-existed FIFA by decades but were also responsible for codifying the game in the first place.

Your rigidly narrow interpretation of a "country" or "nation" is thankfully not shared by FIFA or many other international sporting bodies (eg. Rugby, Cricket, Bowls) which means that the vast majority of Scots are still able to enjoy the national teams which you so strongly object to.

We are not the only example of the lines being blured in FIFA's rule books by the way. How about the following examples???:

Faroe islands - a province of denmark

Andorra - a principality (like Wales???) which names the president of France as it’s co-monarch

Bermuda - a British teritory

French Guiana - an overseas region of France

Guadelupe - ditto

Netherlands Antilles - part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands

US Virgin Islands - an overseas US Territory

Guam - ditto

Chinese Taipei (Taiwan) - an independant state or part of China depending on who you ask.

Macau - a special administrative region of the People's Republic of China

Palestine - Representing the West Bank and the Gazza strip - only recently and loosely recognized as a country - I certainly wouldn't deny them the right to play football as a nation - would you???











But times have changed, or are you saying that FIFA sohludnt adapt to reflect circumstances. I think international football should be for countries, now i dont know the situation with each of your examples, but Palestine for example, i dont think are allowed to play in FIFA precisely (correct me if im wrong). As far as i know Paelstine is not recognised as a country.

As for the other examples, I will have to take your word for it, but if Guadeloupe is a region of France, then no it shgouldnt be allowed to play (just like Monte Carlo isnt). Andorra im not sure about its situation, but there is a big difference between having a shared head of state (which you allude to is the case with Dutch Antilles) and being part of the same country.


As for protectorates and overseas territories, blurred area i grant you, but no i dont think they should be treated as countries, and there are many examples that are not - Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey (in footballing terms). So should they all be allowed in also?

All of htis blurs the argument - Scotland is not a protectorate, an overseas terrirotiry, nor does it just share a head of state with someone. We are not a country, every right we have is only given to us by the UK parliament, we are a wholly paid up member of a larger country, the UK, and so Scotland, the country doesnt exist.

So when other countries ask why we are allowed to clutter up internaitonal football by having four different teams, i think they are justified in asking that questin - what happened 150 years ago is not relevant, and there are very few sound arguments as to why Scotland (and even more so Wales and NI) should be allowed their own teams.

Heres a question for you - would you say it is OK for all 50 US States to enter teams individually into FIFA? And what about Catalunya, the Basque Country, Galicia, Corsica, Brittany, all the German States, the Australian states, all the Russian states, Flanders, Waloonia and any other region/state?

[Purehibee_MYB]

[QUOTE=SouthsideHarp_Bhoy;2500297] Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey (in footballing terms). So should they all be allowed in also?


Only reason they don't compete is because they use the English FA for funding.. Scotland is a country, and it's capital is Edinburgh, not London.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

Ah, so I imagined the almost entire commentary of the second half of the Germany Ghana game being a retropsective on England, who they'd play and at one stage a review of Englands performances in every World Cup since '66 and a review of every game they'd played against Germany too. At the beginning of the half he also came out with this:

"We've never played Ghana, but we've certainly played Germany, West Germany, East Germany, them Germans and another couple of Germanys I could mention too". Seriously WTF?

It might have been nice to have actually had some commentary on the game.

Personally I would like to see England get royally horsed and humiliated just to irritate you.

Fair enough a silly thing to day but is that really worse than some of the headlines you see in the Scottish Sun? I'd say the Scottish media is more anti-english than the english media are anti-german or anti-anyone else. I remember the headline ‘Useless Janker’ when Karsten Janker (sp?) missed an easy chance against England in one of the Euros. I must admit I laughed at this but its one of many examples that gives us no right to take the moral high-ground when it comes to our media.

I didn’t see the Germany vs Ghana game but I assume the commentator said that when nothing else was going on? If I’m watching a game where Scotland play the winners, I would rather hear something like that than the commentator talking about a throw-in. No doubt Chick Young etc would do the same. (Chick Young is another example of why we have no right to take the moral high-ground with the English media).

Too many Scots are over-sensitive when it comes to English commentators going on about England. I personally don’t care if England win it or not but it certainly doesn’t bother me when English people are enthusiastic and talk up their team. For what its worth I live in London and the majority of English people have done nothing but moan so far.

[ScottB]

I can deal with chat about England in games that have relevance.

What I'm sick of is that even during some random game like New Zealand v Slovakia, most of the pre game build up will be news from the England camp, big chunks of the in game commentary will be discussing England and afterwards the attention again goes back to England.


For example, the build up right now towards the Italy group games has mostly been about England and their 'route to the final' and them coming up with reasons as to why England are now amazing after beating a team they earlier referred to as 'third division' and why Germany are hopeless. The random token foreigner towing the party line and not offering any negative opinions on England's inevitable march to glory.

Of course if we were there, our commentators would talk about us, but I can never remember our guys having such disrespect for opposition teams.

I don't see why they don't offer alternate commentary for Scotland on the red button, would be a big success I'm sure.

[vahibbie]

I can't see them getting past the Germans.

Unfortunately I can:grr:
Germany was quite good in their opener but not been impressed since then. England have been *****e but could do enough to get thru the next round.
What I really want is someone to HAMMER them, really grind their noses in it. Might have to wait till Maradona's boys get a hold of them.

At least in the USA it's not about all things English, they don't even "big up" their own team too much. We get every game without most of the donkeys:greengrin

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I don't see why they don't offer alternate commentary for Scotland on the red button, would be a big success I'm sure.

Sadly I agree but that would be very embarrassing say more about the pettiness of Scots than anything else.

[ScottB]

Sadly I agree but that would be very embarrassing say more about the pettiness of Scots than anything else.

I don't think so really, it would be recognising that funnily enough we don't want to hear about how this team are the standard of a 3rd division team or that the weather is as cold as a 4th round FA Cup tie!

Considering they already offer alternate commentary by Chris Moyles of all people I don't see the problem myself!

[judas]

Ah, so I imagined the almost entire commentary of the second half of the Germany Ghana game being a retropsective on England, who they'd play and at one stage a review of Englands performances in every World Cup since '66 and a review of every game they'd played against Germany too. At the beginning of the half he also came out with this:

"We've never played Ghana, but we've certainly played Germany, West Germany, East Germany, them Germans and another couple of Germanys I could mention too". Seriously WTF?

It might have been nice to have actually had some commentary on the game.

Personally I would like to see England get royally horsed and humiliated just to irritate you.

Your hyperbole is amusing.

Just keep imagining.

[Twa Cairpets]

Your hyperbole is amusing.

Just keep imagining.

Im glad Im keeping you tickled. Hyperbole means "extravagant exaggeration". I promise you nothing was exaggerated Judas me old fruit.

I like to think im fairly level headed, and I accept fully that there is almost certainly a bit of confirmation bias - hearing what you want to here when it backs up your own viewpoint, and ignoring anything that contradicts it - going on here, from both sides of the debate but I ampretty sure that it is impossible to imagine that much bombastic keech coming from the media.

[Twa Cairpets]

But times have changed, or are you saying that FIFA sohludnt adapt to reflect circumstances. I think international football should be for countries, now i dont know the situation with each of your examples, but Palestine for example, i dont think are allowed to play in FIFA precisely (correct me if im wrong). As far as i know Paelstine is not recognised as a country.

As for the other examples, I will have to take your word for it, but if Guadeloupe is a region of France, then no it shgouldnt be allowed to play (just like Monte Carlo isnt). Andorra im not sure about its situation, but there is a big difference between having a shared head of state (which you allude to is the case with Dutch Antilles) and being part of the same country.


As for protectorates and overseas territories, blurred area i grant you, but no i dont think they should be treated as countries, and there are many examples that are not - Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey (in footballing terms). So should they all be allowed in also?

All of htis blurs the argument - Scotland is not a protectorate, an overseas terrirotiry, nor does it just share a head of state with someone. We are not a country, every right we have is only given to us by the UK parliament, we are a wholly paid up member of a larger country, the UK, and so Scotland, the country doesnt exist.

So when other countries ask why we are allowed to clutter up internaitonal football by having four different teams, i think they are justified in asking that questin - what happened 150 years ago is not relevant, and there are very few sound arguments as to why Scotland (and even more so Wales and NI) should be allowed their own teams.

Heres a question for you - would you say it is OK for all 50 US States to enter teams individually into FIFA? And what about Catalunya, the Basque Country, Galicia, Corsica, Brittany, all the German States, the Australian states, all the Russian states, Flanders, Waloonia and any other region/state?

Ignoring all the stuff about whether Scotland is or isnt a country, when it comes to football it is, and has been since around the 1860's. The right of Scotland (and Wales, and NI) to field an international side has been established over this time frame. We are talking about a sport here, not the UN, and you have to ask who would benefit from the abandonment of these teams? The answer is, really, no-one. Three less mid-low range countries. Whoop-de-do. They're not "cluttering" anything up - thats just made up. At the very most, it would mean three groups in euro/world qualifying may play 2 less fixtures every two years. Im sure that will be a major advantage to everyone. It wouldnt benefit england, because theyd cease to exist also.

Who would it hurt to remove these teams? Literally millions of people. Armchair fans, travelling fans, businesses. All would suffer, and for nothing other than to satisfy some very low level grumbling. Nonsense

[hibsbollah]

Anyway .... We can be proud to be part of the only country in the world to discover oil and get poorer.

:bitchy:

Unfortunately, most countries that have oil (or any valuable resource) discovered within their borders don't see a penny of it, and have to contend with war, invasion and occupation again and again over the years. The secret to being a successful small state is 'dont have anything other countries might want to steal from you'. Scotland, when compared with most, has done quite well.

Now thats a digression.
:greengrin

[MountcastleHibs]

I've seen a few English people saying we want them to fail because of jealousy. Nothing to do with jealousy imo. More to do with the over hype and over build in the media, which makes it all the more hilarious at the downfall.

Maybe, just maybe if the media didn't hark on as if England have a right to win a major tournament, more people will be sympathetic. But the downright disrespect they show to other teams, and the banging on about 66 and how it is England's time, puts people off, and makes it just brilliant when you see the headlines and reactions in the media at what will be another England underachievement. You'd think England had the best team there the way the media goes on. The overbuild in every broadcast from South Africa by the BBC and ITV, and the constant discussion of England when they're not even playing, is nothing but disrespectful to the teams who are. The Fact the media need to grasp is that this England team is nothing special, as has been proven in the group stage.

I'll never forget the Sun's headline the day after the group was drawn... 'EASY' meaning England, Algeria, Slovenia, Yanks. Bet they're regretting that one now England struggled to a second placed finish.

For me, there's going to be nothing better than watching Germany knock England out on Sunday.... No matter which way it comes.

[degenerated]

I've seen a few English people saying we want them to fail because of jealousy. Nothing to do with jealousy imo. More to do with the over hype and over build in the media, which makes it all the more hilarious at the downfall.

Maybe, just maybe if the media didn't hark on as if England have a right to win a major tournament, more people will be sympathetic. But the downright disrespect they show to other teams, and the banging on about 66 and how it is England's time, puts people off, and makes it just brilliant when you see the headlines and reactions in the media at what will be another England underachievement. You'd think England had the best team there the way the media goes on. The overbuild in every broadcast from South Africa by the BBC and ITV, and the constant discussion of England when they're not even playing, is nothing but disrespectful to the teams who are. The Fact the media need to grasp is that this England team is nothing special, as has been proven in the group stage.

I'll never forget the Sun's headline the day after the group was drawn... 'EASY' meaning England, Algeria, Slovenia, Yanks. Bet they're regretting that one now England struggled to a second placed finish.

For me, there's going to be nothing better than watching Germany knock England out on Sunday.... No matter which way it comes.

it might be an oldie but its stuff like this that really doesnt endear them to many
http://www.welti.ch/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/achtung_surrender_klein.jpg

[Phil D. Rolls]

it might be an oldie but its stuff like this that really doesnt endear them to many
http://www.welti.ch/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/achtung_surrender_klein.jpg

I sincerely hope they've got over that nonsense. It's almost as embarrassing as the way we go on about them.

[superbam]

Apologies if it has been already posted, but watching the World Cup coverage on RTE over here reminds me why the english media help create such resentment towards the team (and contribute towards their ultimate demise)

Compare and contrast the bbc pundits and irish coverage on RTE (pundits are usually Eamonn Dunphy, Graeme Sounness, Johnny Giles and Liam Brady or Ronnie Whelan) re the slovenia game


Hansen: “Once England got the goal the confidence levels surged, they were excellent.”
Eamon Dunphy: “They just didn’t grow in confidence at all after the goal.”

Lineker: “The goal really settled them, didn’t it? They pushed on from there.”
Ronnie Whelan: “You’d think they’d have kicked on from when they scored, but they actually got worse.”

Roy: “England’s crossing has been absolutely outstanding.”
Giles: “Some of the crossing was just awful.”

Shearer: “Rooney looks more confident, he’s getting around the pitch a lot better.”
Dunphy: “It’s shocking to see Rooney so subdued, he’s been reduced to a shivering wreck.”

Shearer: “They look much more comfortable on the ball, they’re passing it with a purpose, with pace, they’re closing down – a much better performance, it’s encouraging.”
Giles: “They’re much better than they have been, but they couldn’t have been worse.”

No arguments, then. Second half. England held on. Full-time. Ready?

Lee Dixon: “A great performance.”
Dunphy: “Shocking . . . absolutely incredibly bad . . . pretty awful stuff.”

Hansen: “The commitment was there, the spirit was there, the enterprise was there, the creativity was there, they passed it better – they could have scored five or six quite easily. Capello will obviously be delighted with the performance.”
Giles: “If that’s the shackles off what’ll they be like when the shackles are back on?”

’Arry Redknapp: “We played with pace, we got after them, we pressed them, there wasn’t a weakness in the team.”
Dunphy: “They were astonishingly poor.”

Lineker: “He looked more like the Rooney we know.”
Ronnie: “Rooney is a major worry, his form, his body language, his demeanour, everything.”

Dixon: “Gerrard was outstanding.”
Dunphy: “I can’t believe how bad Gerrard was today.”

’Arry: “Across midfield we were top drawer.”
Giles: “Barry got worse as the game went on, Milner, Gerrard and Lampard the same.”

’Arry: “Bring it on! Whoever we play we’ll be difficult to beat.”
Ronnie: “If they don’t improve they’ll go straight out, it was a very, very inept performance.”

[brydekirk]

I heard the English commentators talking today about how the USA never give up.

I heard them talking about the class of Argentina and talking (wrongly in my view) about how Algeria were arguably the better team vs England.

And the english people? I heard about 20 calls go into talk sport right after the game from people who think England are average and will come to an end against better opposition.

Perhaps you hear what you want to hear?

Personally, I would like to see England win the world cup just to irritate you lot.
typical. you lot. well, you lot are worse than an itchy ring peice. FACT:bye:

[StevieC]

I've seen a few English people saying we want them to fail because of jealousy. Nothing to do with jealousy imo. More to do with the over hype and over build in the media, which makes it all the more hilarious at the downfall.

I think it runs a lot deeper with quite a few Scots than simply media hype. The Scotland/England "rivalry" in the 70's was totally cringeworthy and using words like "bigoted" wouldn't have been far off the mark.

Thankfully though we have progressed substantially since those "Remember Bannockburn" days and I think most of us can now cross the border without wanting to attack everything that moves.
You can, however, still see that sort of mentality manifest itself from time to time (usually around the time of World Cups or European Championships).

Yes the "English" media is biased, yes commentators can be nobs, yes the gutter press will stick up photoshopped pictures and ridiculous headlines .. it's what they are paid to do! But is it any worse than many of the other nations competing in the World Cup, I doubt it?
The players and supporters are not though, they get on with playing the best that they can and supporting their team with a passion.


it might be an oldie but its stuff like this that really doesnt endear them to many

With "them" being idiots that are paid good money to stir up a reaction and get their newspapers talked about and get readership levels up .. not the millions of other English people that are, at the end of the day, just like you and me.


EDIT: and if you want an example of media hype taken to cringeworthy extremes .. look no further than Scotland in 1978! That was the year that I learned about betting, and how easy it was to lose money on something that was viewed as a "dead cert"!

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

heres an example:

Colin Murrays presenting last nights BBC1 highlights show.

Lawrensons on it, half peshed, eyes were all over the shop and hair a mess.
Comments on Holland; "they look agood side, Robben, Sneijder, the young black guy......"

Then Colin presents his top 7 WC freekicks, 2nd one is Peru v Scotland " Ahright!, Ahright! that
doesn't count though , it was only Alan Rough in goals"

Now thats fine when theres a Jock in the studio for a bit of banter and witty repartee. It's just
obnoxious, disparaging pash otherwise.

[twiceinathens]

If you want to know why we become irritated by the English media just tune in now (or any time)to Mike Parry on Talksport for jaw dropping negative stereotyping of oppsition delivered by means of talking loudly quickly and ignoring any counterargument.

[StevieC]

Then Colin presents his top 7 WC freekicks, 2nd one is Peru v Scotland " Ahright!, Ahright! that
doesn't count though , it was only Alan Rough in goals"

And the free kick that was dwelled on for the longest, to include the scorers celebrations, was the one with Seaman being made to look a fool by Ronaldhino.

Or is that classed as English bias because it was the longest clip??

:rolleyes:

[Saorsa]

I think it runs a lot deeper with quite a few Scots than simply media hype. The Scotland/England "rivalry" in the 70's was totally cringeworthy and using words like "bigoted" wouldn't have been far off the mark.

Thankfully though we have progressed substantially since those "Remember Bannockburn" days and I think most of us can now cross the border without wanting to attack everything that moves.
You can, however, still see that sort of mentality manifest itself from time to time (usually around the time of World Cups or European Championships).

Yes the "English" media is biased, yes commentators can be nobs, yes the gutter press will stick up photoshopped pictures and ridiculous headlines .. it's what they are paid to do! But is it any worse than many of the other nations competing in the World Cup, I doubt it?
The players and supporters are not though, they get on with playing the best that they can and supporting their team with a passion.It may be nae worse than other nations, I wouldnae ken, but do any of those other competing nations share a media network with any other? The difference is here unfortunately we have tae put up with the supposedly British media ramming Englerlund down our throats every minute of every day when the majority of people here dinnae want tae here it. I'm Scottish, no English, I dinnae give a flying fiddlers f*** about Engurlund, what *****e goes in the papers or out on TV there but I dinnae want tae hear it. I dinnae want it rammed doon my throat everytime I turn on the TV tae watch the fitba, particulary in games that have f'all tae dae with Engurlund.

Here you cannae f***** get away fae it :grr: unless you decide you dinnae want tae watch the fitba. I'm sick of turning on my TV in Scotland and hearing about bloody Engurlund :grr:

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

And the free kick that was dwelled on for the longest, to include the scorers celebrations, was the one with Seaman being made to look a fool by Ronaldhino.

Or is that classed as English bias because it was the longest clip??

:rolleyes:

They can make fun of themselves as much as they like.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm sick of turning on my TV in Scotland and hearing about bloody Engurlund

That's the main reason I'm hoping Engerlund go out asap. So that I can tune in to watch Brasil or The Argentine without being subjected to what John Terry "thinks" or what Frank Lampard says about his team.

Trying to enjoy the Holland Cameroon game last night and Mowbray's giving it the "Liverpool to Arsenal" pash when Kuyt passes to Van Persie. Just shut the make love up about bleedin Engerlund, the Engerlish league, Engerlish this, Engerlish that! :grr:

[StevieC]

I'm sick of turning on my TV in Scotland and hearing about bloody Engurlund

And are you equally sick of all the Premiership football? I'm not.

We can complain about the bias from English commentators reporting on English games but by the same token we benefit viewing wise with better quality football and better quality viewing. The alternative is Scotsport and ALBA.

[clerriehibs]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?

Being European, why do the English always want the Germans to get beat? Being a Commonwealth country, why do the English like it when Australia get beat "in a sporting context" (courtesy, Clive Tyldesly)? Being part of this world, why do the English always want Argentina to get beat?

Being from Edinburgh why do most of us always want Hearts to get beat in any competition? Why do I get irritated by the English carping on about the Scots not supporting them, when they are possibly the most xenophobic nation in the world? Their hypocrisy doesn't seem to be a problem to themselves.

What's the point of your question?

[tony]

Being European, why do the English always want the Germans to get beat? Being a Commonwealth country, why do the English like it when Australia get beat "in a sporting context" (courtesy, Clive Tyldesly)? Being part of this world, why do the English always want Argentina to get beat?

Being from Edinburgh why do most of us always want Hearts to get beat in any competition?

Agree 100%. Football is partly, and wonderfully, about rivalries. The biggest game of the year when i was young was the huge get together for the Scotland England game. The one that seemed to matter more than any other. Added to that rivalry is the media madness already commented on in this post. A bit like the media coverage of the OF and we just love them dont we?

There is another point though. For the benefit of the game I want to see the best teams, the most exciting teams, the most innovative teams, win. There seems to be a new type of game developing, based on small pockets of play and players moving fluidly around the pitch. The Germans in their first match, the Argentinians and, actually a lot of the South Americans have conquered, thankfully, the defensive first approach of teams like Greece and (hopefully) Switzerland. What England have to offer seems to be playing like they are in the Premier League. High tempo, plenty of mistakes, plenty of effort and precious little in the way of guile or invention. Just lucky that a WC is being played in the cold. Suits them but as much as I think that Italy and France were teams of the past so the same applies to England....as it would apply to us, if we entered the realms of fantasy.

And for all those reasons, I'll be supporting a German win on Sunday :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

It may be nae worse than other nations, I wouldnae ken, but do any of those other competing nations share a media network with any other? The difference is here unfortunately we have tae put up with the supposedly British media ramming Englerlund down our throats every minute of every day when the majority of people here dinnae want tae here it. I'm Scottish, no English, I dinnae give a flying fiddlers f*** about Engurlund, what *****e goes in the papers or out on TV there but I dinnae want tae hear it. I dinnae want it rammed doon my throat everytime I turn on the TV tae watch the fitba, particulary in games that have f'all tae dae with Engurlund.

Here you cannae f***** get away fae it :grr: unless you decide you dinnae want tae watch the fitba. I'm sick of turning on my TV in Scotland and hearing about bloody Engurlund :grr:

I think that is a very good point, nowhere else would fans of one nation have to listen to the commentators of another. I can remember being in Ireland when the last World cup was on and the coverage was night and day very good pundits being able to analyse the games objectively without the same biased focus purely on the basis of one competing nation.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Agree 100%. There seems to be a new type of game developing, based on small pockets of play and players moving fluidly around the pitch.

Maybe slightly off topic here, but I think the Dutch and the Brazillians have been using this technique for a long time. Rather than see the pitch as having two ends which the ball must move between, they have tended to view it as an area without boundaries.

[Joe Baker II]

heres an example:

Colin Murrays presenting last nights BBC1 highlights show.

Lawrensons on it, half peshed, eyes were all over the shop and hair a mess.
Comments on Holland; "they look agood side, Robben, Sneijder, the young black guy......"

Then Colin presents his top 7 WC freekicks, 2nd one is Peru v Scotland " Ahright!, Ahright! that
doesn't count though , it was only Alan Rough in goals"

Now thats fine when theres a Jock in the studio for a bit of banter and witty repartee. It's just
obnoxious, disparaging pash otherwise.

Yes, this somewhat typifies the attitude of London media toward Scottish football (and by default English people given this would not continue if there were any serious level of complaint) over a long period. Nationality of the person who made commnet irrelevant, it is fact this coverage is imposed on Scotland by terrestial television that we pay for from a hostile neighbour.

Plenty of other reasons for hating England but that is one in itself.

[Joe Baker II]

And are you equally sick of all the Premiership football? I'm not.

We can complain about the bias from English commentators reporting on English games but by the same token we benefit viewing wise with better quality football and better quality viewing. The alternative is Scotsport and ALBA.

Good point, in may ways Scots have more justification for hatred of the Premiership (even if for some reason, you seem to welcome it) far more than the England team and its negative effect on the other leagues is even more cancerous, altohugh to some extent they both feed of each other so no problem in equal hatred of both. BUt annoying as world cup coverage is , it is a far more racist situation that only English club football is shown in Scotland on terrestirial television on Saturdays, and at many other times too.

YOur second sentence is wrong though - if Scottish football coverage got even 10% of the monies devoted to English football coverage that our share of population merits, the quality issues would disappear.

[Joe Baker II]

And the free kick that was dwelled on for the longest, to include the scorers celebrations, was the one with Seaman being made to look a fool by Ronaldhino.

Or is that classed as English bias because it was the longest clip??

:rolleyes:

It was not acompanied by a mildly racist jibe about English goalkeepers generally, the sort of double standards that sums up why English people are so disliked by the rest of the British Isles.

[marinello59]

It was not acompanied by a mildly racist jibe about English goalkeepers generally, the sort of double standards that sums up why English people are so disliked by the rest of the British Isles.

Double standards? Like describing jokey remarks about Scots goalkeepers as mildly racist but dismissing comments describing the English as arrogant as football banter? :confused:

[mickki40]

If you want to know why we become irritated by the English media just tune in now (or any time)to Mike Parry on Talksport for jaw dropping negative stereotyping of oppsition delivered by means of talking loudly quickly and ignoring any counterargument.


Mike Parry is a TWAT with a capital T. I am English and cringe at whatever this guy says anytime, it doesn't have to be the world cup or involve England. I think he just goes for sensationalism to draw a crowd, after all you listened to him to draw an opinion of him...so you could say he is rather clever or Just a complete TWAT. I prefer the Latter.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Good point, in may ways Scots have more justification for hatred of the Premiership (even if for some reason, you seem to welcome it) far more than the England team and its negative effect on the other leagues is even more cancerous, altohugh to some extent they both feed of each other so no problem in equal hatred of both. BUt annoying as world cup coverage is , it is a far more racist situation that only English club football is shown in Scotland on terrestirial television on Saturdays, and at many other times too.

YOur second sentence is wrong though - if Scottish football coverage got even 10% of the monies devoted to English football coverage that our share of population merits, the quality issues would disappear.

Surely it is for the Scottish broadcasters to pay for Scottish football? I think rather than a racist agenda it is about economics.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you want to know why we become irritated by the English media just tune in now (or any time)to Mike Parry on Talksport for jaw dropping negative stereotyping of oppsition delivered by means of talking loudly quickly and ignoring any counterargument.

:agree:

[marinello59]

Surely it is for the Scottish broadcasters to pay for Scottish football? I think rather than a racist agenda it is about economics.

:agree: Exactly.

[twiceinathens]

Mike Parry is a TWAT with a capital T. I am English and cringe at whatever this guy says anytime, it doesn't have to be the world cup or involve England. I think he just goes for sensationalism to draw a crowd, after all you listened to him to draw an opinion of him...so you could say he is rather clever or Just a complete TWAT. I prefer the Latter.

No I listen to him knowing he is there to be contraversial and recognising and laughing at him for the clown he is. The more worrying aspect is the number of callers who enthusiastically support his rantings.

[StevieC]

It was not acompanied by a mildly racist jibe about English goalkeepers generally, the sort of double standards that sums up why English people are so disliked by the rest of the British Isles.

Wasn't it the Irishman that had the dig about Roughie?

Lets be honest, we've slated Roughie (perm included) for years. Probably more for the goal conceded against Brazil than the Peru free kick, but lets not try and pretend we are hurt by the comment ... and to class it as racist is beyond belief!!

Having met Roughie, and listened to him happily ridicule himself at an after-dinner speech, he'll have been having a wee chuckle to himself if he'd been watching.

[Phil D. Rolls]

The more I've thought about it as the world cup has gone on, I think we are just plain jealous. We have done nothing in World Cups, and as a result there is nothing to say about us on these programmes. Even Northern Ireland has achieved more (patronising yes, but something we should really be ashamed of).

Greece and Denmark have won European Championships. Belgium has performed well at tournaments in the past, reaching the semi final stage. We are perrenial nobodys at the World Cup.

We really are irrelevant, and it is that which hurts more than anything else. We really need to take a hard look at our own failings instead of whingeing about what's on the telly.

The Tartan Army have this misconception that the rest of the world misses us when we don't qualify. The truth is the rest of the world neither cares, or even knows who we are.

Sure the English commentators are arrogant and at times verging on outright racism. That really gets on my goat, and I would happily watch the game listening to commentary in any other language.

I have to hold my hands up and say, I really envy the people in England fans as they have a big weekend to look forward to (in which they will probably make their customary *rse of themselves with drink). It's all their business though. Right now I feel like there's a party going on, and I'm the designated driver.

Let's get over them. They are irrelevant to us, as a nation we have control of our own destiny, and we have to get over this class sook attitude. "Those big boys from England have been smoking behind the bike sheds sir, not like us".

We are pathetic,and we have so much we could be proud of. I think we should be turning our anger on the donkeys who run our game, and have let us slip behind nearly every other nation on earth. Sadly that won't happen because we like to blame everyone else.

If it was going to happen, how on earth could someone like George Peat be running Scottish Football. We are joke, and the funniest thing is everyone else can see it apart from us.

And another thing. I am a proud Scot and I find the antics of the Tartan Army nothing short of cringeworthy. They are the worst kind of backwoodsmen, and all the do is perpetuate the Brigadoon image of this great nation.

Many of them seem to be no more than narrow minded bigots. Nobodys from nowhere towns, looking for a chance to be somebody for a week or so.

They are like those guys that buy full military uniforms and medals and live a fantasy life as decorated war heros, when in fact they are nothing more than a bus driver from Livingston.

It's time for change!

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Wasn't it the Irishman that had the dig about Roughie?

Lets be honest, we've slated Roughie (perm included) for years. Probably more for the goal conceded against Brazil than the Peru free kick, but lets not try and pretend we are hurt by the comment ... and to class it as racist is beyond belief!!

Having met Roughie, and listened to him happily ridicule himself at an after-dinner speech, he'll have been having a wee chuckle to himself if he'd been watching.

Nah, it was Lawrenson who made the remark.

The thing that prompted me to post in the first place is that I enjoy the Scotland/England banter at work and wi ma mates, all in a friendly manner, it's just that I think Lawros a fud and it's a bit unnecessary to make the remark when there isn't a Jock in attendance to retort.

Graham Taylor was in the studio, but seeing that he seems a decent guy, and probably being aware of the audience the programme was broadcast to didnt feel the need to comment. I suppose the programme makers could have a word wi Lawro and ask him to tone it down, but I doubt that it would even occur to them to do so.
And while I'm on the subject, Max Rushden is another fud with a similar mindset.

You've made the point earlier that the vast majority of English are decent people and they have the same %age of f@nnies as us. Totally agree

[weecounty hibby]

And another thing. I am a proud Scot and I find the antics of the Tartan Army nothing short of cringeworthy. They are the worst kind of backwoodsmen, and all the do is perpetuate the Brigadoon image of this great nation.

Many of them seem to be no more than narrow minded bigots. Nobodys from nowhere towns, looking for a chance to be somebody for a week or so.

They are like those guys that buy full military uniforms and medals and live a fantasy life as decorated war heros, when in fact they are nothing more than a bus driver from Livingston.

It's time for change!

I agree with what you say except for the bit about the TA above. Yes there are some who are a total embarassment but on the whole they are nly out for a laugh and a good time and to support Scotland. My first away match was in 89 and my last away match was during the 98 WC and whatever you say the TA and Scotland fans in general DO add to the atmosphere and the spectacle of competitions.

I have also followed Scotland away for rugby internationals and also the British Lions down to Australia and wherever you are and whatever the event everyone wants to talk to you when you are in a kilt. I cannot stand the sight of people lifting there kilts and will never understand those who do it.

I also wore my kilt to Liege and also to Brussels for the Anderlecht match. Does this make me some kind of nobody, narrow minded bigot or a backwoodsman? I really think some of the things you say about the Scotland fans is a bit out of order.

[Diclonius]

If you want to know why we become irritated by the English media just tune in now (or any time)to Mike Parry on Talksport for jaw dropping negative stereotyping of oppsition delivered by means of talking loudly quickly and ignoring any counterargument.

I hate that man.

Some choice quotes:

"Wayne Rooney will go on to eclipse Messi and Maradona"
"If you don't think England will win the World Cup, you're not a really an Englishman"
"When all you Celtics [!] start winning something, you can talk" Population of England = 50 million, population of rest of UK and Ireland combined = 14 million.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I agree with what you say except for the bit about the TA above. Yes there are some who are a total embarassment but on the whole they are nly out for a laugh and a good time and to support Scotland. My first away match was in 89 and my last away match was during the 98 WC and whatever you say the TA and Scotland fans in general DO add to the atmosphere and the spectacle of competitions.

I have also followed Scotland away for rugby internationals and also the British Lions down to Australia and wherever you are and whatever the event everyone wants to talk to you when you are in a kilt. I cannot stand the sight of people lifting there kilts and will never understand those who do it.

I also wore my kilt to Liege and also to Brussels for the Anderlecht match. Does this make me some kind of nobody, narrow minded bigot or a backwoodsman? I really think some of the things you say about the Scotland fans is a bit out of order.

No it doesn't, but it does confirm the depth of my hangover when I typed that bit. Sorry mate.

[Bostonhibby]

No I listen to him knowing he is there to be contraversial and recognising and laughing at him for the clown he is. The more worrying aspect is the number of callers who enthusiastically support his rantings.

:agree: He makes his own audience, a bit like The James Whale Show in the states, if you abuse enough people and make enough controversial remarks you will eventually provoke a reaction - nob head though!

[Bostonhibby]

Oh, and by the way, answering the OP's question, I live amongst them and they are ordinarily individually good beer drinking people, a few of which are sympathetic towards Hibs, stick them together in a beer tent after they have completely obliterated the might of Slovenia having held the super power that is Algeria and a team with the Pedigree and history of the USA, and they all start to blend into the one motonic deluded mob that believes they will win because the Sun says................

Duetschland Deutschland Uber Alles, for the time being anyway.

[Phil D. Rolls]

:agree: He makes his own audience, a bit like The James Whale Show in the states, if you abuse enough people and make enough controversial remarks you will eventually provoke a reaction - nob head though!

No I can't agree with that. :greengrin

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

It was good to hear the comments of Edgar Davids. Whilst all the English presenters have been creaming themselves about a 1-0 win over the third smallest country to ever appear at the World Cup, Edgar Davids said that England have not been impressive and will have to improve to beat Germany.

Adrian Chilles couldn't believe that they had somebody on the panel who dare say a bad word about the English team. :greengrin

[anon1]

It works both ways.. plenty of people in england have something against the 'sweaty socks' & plwenty of people up here have something against the English. Its fairly natural.. I'm not sure in this day and age its on a personal level. Its just 2 big football rivals who like beating each other!

[Pete]

It works both ways.. plenty of people in england have something against the 'sweaty socks' & plwenty of people up here have something against the English. Its fairly natural.. I'm not sure in this day and age its on a personal level. Its just 2 big football rivals who like beating each other!

:agree:

Some of us Scots need to chill out and realise that within a British media network we're always going to hear a lot more about England due to it's sheer size in comparison to the others.

I certainly won't be wishing any sort of defeat on them. Whatever they do wont effect me or my nation so why waste energy on negative thoughts? Those who latch onto nations, like in that STV ad or those who support anyone but England are wasting their time...they should be using their energy to analyse what is wrong with our game instead of groryhunting or indulging in schadenfreude.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

It works both ways.. plenty of people in england have something against the 'sweaty socks' & plwenty of people up here have something against the English. Its fairly natural.. I'm not sure in this day and age its on a personal level. Its just 2 big football rivals who like beating each other!

I'm sure as a Notts Forest fan you'd hate to see County win the English Premiership, then go on to conqueror Europe like Forrest did. :wink:

The same way that we as Hibs fans, do not wish to see Hearts win anything. Doesn't mean I hate all Jambos, my dad's a Jambo!

People, especially down south can say that Scotland and England are not rivals because of the difference in class between the two current sides but historically we ARE rivals. Football fans do not like to see their rivals win anything, doesn't matter whether it's Hibs/Hearts, Rangers/Celtic, Scotland/England or Brazil/Argentina. Do you think the Argies will be supporting Brazil if they get knocked out tomorrow, no chance.

I'm also not sure if Scotland would get universal approval down south if roles were reversed, would the English really want Scotland to repeat their 1966, I'm not too sure they would tbh.

Having said that, IF England beat Germany, Argentina, Spain then Brazil to win the World Cup, then I'd have to put my hand up and say fair play, well done and they would deserve it. :agree:

[Bostonhibby]

No I can't agree with that. :greengrin

Oh yes you will :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Oh yes you will :greengrin

Fiddlesticks, this is too tame. I'm off to find an empty room.:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Fiddlesticks, this is too tame. I'm off to find an empty room.:greengrin

Oh no you're not.............................

[Phil D. Rolls]

Oh no you're not.............................

How did you know there was someone in there? Why I oughta.:grr:

[Bostonhibby]

How did you know there was someone in there? Why I oughta.:grr:

:thumbsup:

I didn't say I knew there was someone in there.

And you might think you oughta, but I don't think you will!

Jeez, I could do this all day if I didn't have to go to the pub at 11 to bag the best seat in front of the big screen, the one reserved for the part time Box head.

And after all this fascinating debate, I still don't understand why "We don't cheer on our own constituent country"

[Borders Hibby]

Why Don't We Cheer On Our Own Constituent Country?



Being British, I support England, NI, Wales and Scotland in whatever events they may be participating..

What I can't get my head around is why we still have to continue with bigoted opinions towards our own nations in general.

This isn't just directed at Scottish folk but at the English as well, but moreso Scotland because of the current situation with one being in the World Cup.

So, discuss, why do you personally have something against the English?
Today, I love them!:wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm going to break with my normal thoughts, and say yes we should support England, i'm certainly going to get right behind them now, for the rest of this campaign.:thumbsup:

[MSK]

It works both ways.. plenty of people in england have something against the 'sweaty socks' & plwenty of people up here have something against the English. Its fairly natural.. I'm not sure in this day and age its on a personal level. Its just 2 big football rivals who like beating each other!Anyway .. hope yer spewing big style...GIRFUY ...:thumbsup: