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SlickShoes
13-06-2010, 08:11 PM
They hate that we will not get behind them, simply because our nations are close together.

Its a major issue and its in the news constantly when we do not qualify.

Tonight i am watching the Germany game and the commentators and pundits are acting like someone has shot there granny because Germany are winning at football.

I know there was the war, but that was a long time ago now, no one playing for Germany had anything to do with it so why wont they give up the hate?

Because they are Rivals? Yep thats exactly it, but if someone scottish says they wont support England they are lambasted by others and seen as a lesser person because of a simple football rivalry.

We all have friends that are English and we probably dont hate them, not supporting there football team is a total non issue. I usually dont get riled up by this but the TV coverage attitude towards Germany is shocking they actually cannot stand to see them do anything decent and they cannot even praise them for outplaying Australia with Adrian Chiles coming out with the gem " Surely its just Australia making them look good?"

Are they really that scared of playing Germany?

HibbiesandtheBaddies
13-06-2010, 08:16 PM
They hate that we will not get behind them, simply because our nations are close together.

Its a major issue and its in the news constantly when we do not qualify.

Tonight i am watching the Germany game and the commentators and pundits are acting like someone has shot there granny because Germany are winning at football.

I know there was the war, but that was a long time ago now, no one playing for Germany had anything to do with it so why wont they give up the hate?

Because they are Rivals? Yep thats exactly it, but if someone scottish says they wont support England they are lambasted by others and seen as a lesser person because of a simple football rivalry.

We all have friends that are English and we probably dont hate them, not supporting there football team is a total non issue. I usually dont get riled up by this but the TV coverage attitude towards Germany is shocking they actually cannot stand to see them do anything decent and they cannot even praise them for outplaying Australia with Adrian Chiles coming out with the gem " Surely its just Australia making them look good?"

Are they really that scared of playing Germany?

I think they just want to be loved. They're just not very loveable tho..... :greengrin

Argylehibby
13-06-2010, 08:51 PM
Had to laugh when the commentator said "Das Bild, the German newspaper will hsve it that they have won the cup already". They spent the whole game talking as if England had already qualified! :kettle:

nonshinyfinish
13-06-2010, 09:06 PM
Had to laugh when the commentator said "Das Bild, the German newspaper will hsve it that they have won the cup already". They spent the whole game talking as if Englnad had already qualified! :kettle:

Bild is absolute gutter press, but it's practically James Joyce compared to the Sun, etc.

I really can't understand why so much is made of Scots not supporting England. No one could pretend to be surprised that Lazio fans want Roma to lose in Europe - throughout world football (and sport in general) the biggest rivalries are always between neighbouring teams.

I find it terribly sad if Scots actually hate England or English people, but wanting them to lose every game they play? That's completely natural IMO.

HibeeMcGinn1
13-06-2010, 10:59 PM
Most of the players in the England team I have respect for, its not them that get me annoyed its the press. Every time they are in a tournament they build them up because of course they are the best in the world and of course they have the best team. They get right on my nerves and it will be even funnier when they get knocked out. I hate that ****** David Cameron aswell. Rant over.

Hainan Hibs
13-06-2010, 11:29 PM
Some great points made. I was quite surprised by the commentators in the Germany game. I could understand a few piss takes here and there because of their rivalry but they sounded like they were seething with jealously that Germany were demolishing the Aussies while England had stumbled to a draw.

They know deep down now that if they do get through Germany awaits later in the tournament and the Germans will have them bent over and taking one.

I also don't see what the big thing is about us not supporting/supporting England. In footballing terms we are two completely separate states and I wouldn't expect other neighbouring countries to support each other and wouldn't see them making such a big deal about it.

Also I don't see why some Scots who decide to support England make such a big deal about it. I'm supporting Argentina but I don't make a big song and dance about it and think of myself as somehow being above everyone else.

Thankfully England will be pumped out soon enough and we can sit back and enjoy a quality end to the tournament.

AK86
13-06-2010, 11:35 PM
its not just us that want to see them get pumped
They are universally despised

Hibercelona
14-06-2010, 12:33 AM
They are simply keeking their breeks.

Behind the scenes they are biting their nails and hoping England won't qualify, just to save them the sheer embarassment of being shown up for the garbage they really are againt REAL teams like Germany, Spain & Argentina.

I'm actually hoping they do qualify, then they can be shown up for the over hyped circus of a team they really are.

And for the record, I don't hate English people. I just hate their accents, their attitudes, their minging cities, their smug smiles and their superiority complex that could quite easily rival the yams. :jamboak:

Haymaker
14-06-2010, 01:43 AM
It does wind me up alittle when the English big themselves up to be "world beaters" and have "the best league in the world" etc etc having lived here in england all my life, however it seems to be the media and the "Fans" who trumpet this balls. I spend alot of time with people who understand the game (I teach and study the game with them) and the ones who do know their game know england wont do well. Maybe they will fluke to the semi's if results go their way but if they dont they are coming home in the second round realistically.

Capello is a coaching hero of mine but at the end of the day he can only train them, inform them, coach them and prepare them for a game... once the whistle goes then it is up to the players.

Englands (and the rest of the UKs football teams tbf) problems are alot deeper than people think.

Kaiser1962
14-06-2010, 06:33 AM
its not just us that want to see them get pumped
They are universally despised

Fact! Anywhere I travel I am asked if I am English, when I point out that I am Scottish this is greeted with (95% of the time) a very positive reaction followed by a comment that the person dosen't like the English. Jonny Foreigner doesn't do accents apparently.
I actually wanted England to do well, and still feel they might, up until the tournament kicked off and the cundits started spouting their gash.

malcky
14-06-2010, 07:50 AM
its not just us that want to see them get pumped
They are universally despised

just like the hertz

steakbake
14-06-2010, 08:01 AM
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Why does everyone have to take it so f'n personally?

I used to think the ABE thing was a bit of banter between local rivals. I was in a pub on Saturday for the USA/England game and the "banter" was actually pretty shameful and nothing short of naked aggression. I was with some English friends and work colleagues. I felt totally embarrassed on behalf of my countrymen. It does nothing for our image as a country either at home or abroad.

You can dress it up any way you like, moan about the English media, the apparent repeat mentions of 1966 and all that and find any excuse in the book you want. But some of it is just pathetic.

Seanair
14-06-2010, 08:16 AM
Some great points made. I was quite surprised by the commentators in the Germany game. I could understand a few piss takes here and there because of their rivalry but they sounded like they were seething with jealously that Germany were demolishing the Aussies while England had stumbled to a draw.

They know deep down now that if they do get through Germany awaits later in the tournament and the Germans will have them bent over and taking one.

I also don't see what the big thing is about us not supporting/supporting England. In footballing terms we are two completely separate states and I wouldn't expect other neighbouring countries to support each other and wouldn't see them making such a big deal about it.

Also I don't see why some Scots who decide to support England make such a big deal about it. I'm supporting Argentina but I don't make a big song and dance about it and think of myself as somehow being above everyone else.

Thankfully England will be pumped out soon enough and we can sit back and enjoy a quality end to the tournament.

Re your last paragraph, this won't happen because the commentators would then switch to "what if "mode, where despite the fact that the've been humped, they convince themselves that England would have been able to beat any of the teams actually playing in the quarters or semis (and even the final).:grr:

CropleyWasGod
14-06-2010, 08:20 AM
They are simply keeking their breeks.

Behind the scenes they are biting their nails and hoping England won't qualify, just to save them the sheer embarassment of being shown up for the garbage they really are againt REAL teams like Germany, Spain & Argentina.

I

Xenophobic nonsense.

Exemplify...

Hibbyradge
14-06-2010, 08:25 AM
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Why does everyone have to take it so f'n personally?

I used to think the ABE thing was a bit of banter between local rivals. I was in a pub on Saturday for the USA/England game and the "banter" was actually pretty shameful and nothing short of naked aggression. I was with some English friends and work colleagues. I felt totally embarrassed on behalf of my countrymen. It does nothing for our image as a country either at home or abroad.

You can dress it up any way you like, moan about the English media, the apparent repeat mentions of 1966 and all that and find any excuse in the book you want. But some of it is just pathetic.

:agree:

I won't watch an England game in the pub now because of the hysteria and hatred.

Although I'm Scottish and can get irritated by some of the remarks made by the pundits, some of the critisisms made of the commentators are utterly hypocritical.

England are 8th in the FIFA worls rankings are are therefore entitled to think they have a chance of winning. They do.

Hibs haven't won the Scottish Cup for a wee while now, but I still think we can win it every year.

Peevemor
14-06-2010, 09:06 AM
I dont see what all the fuss is about. Why does everyone have to take it so f'n personally?

I used to think the ABE thing was a bit of banter between local rivals. I was in a pub on Saturday for the USA/England game and the "banter" was actually pretty shameful and nothing short of naked aggression. I was with some English friends and work colleagues. I felt totally embarrassed on behalf of my countrymen. It does nothing for our image as a country either at home or abroad.

You can dress it up any way you like, moan about the English media, the apparent repeat mentions of 1966 and all that and find any excuse in the book you want. But some of it is just pathetic.

It wouldn't be so vitriolic if Scotland qualified once in a while. This is the 6th consecutive tournament where Scotland have been absent from the final stages. IMO people are becoming increasingly focused on hating England due to not having our own team to support.

SlickShoes
14-06-2010, 09:12 AM
It wouldn't be so vitriolic if Scotland qualified once in a while. This is the 6th consecutive tournament where Scotland have been absent from the final stages. IMO people are becoming increasingly focused on hating England due to not having our own team to support.

Yep and its difficult to see us qualifying any time soon.

Back in the 90s as a kid i looked forward to going to a World Cup to support Scotland when i became an adult, now it does not seem that likely. As we struggle by the best teams are just getting better and better and Europe has a large number of excellent teams leaving very little space for mediocre countries like ourselves to make it through.

Right now it would be a HUGE achievement if we were to even qualify for anything based on how good the top European nations are, England included in that.

Phil D. Rolls
14-06-2010, 09:15 AM
I think they just want to be loved. They're just not very loveable tho..... :greengrin

That's why they run into problems IMO. :agree:

Sandy
14-06-2010, 10:41 AM
Fact! Anywhere I travel I am asked if I am English, when I point out that I am Scottish this is greeted with (95% of the time) a very positive reaction followed by a comment that the person dosen't like the English. Jonny Foreigner doesn't do accents apparently.
I actually wanted England to do well, and still feel they might, up until the tournament kicked off and the cundits started spouting their gash.

Yup :top marks I get asked a lot here where I am from, once it is found out I am Scottish it is open arms time, mind you a certain gentleman getting sent home from prison might have something to do with this lots attitude to us Scots :agree:.

For the record, I want them to get stuffed in every game they play, if that is Xenophobic, then I am a Xenophobe.

Joe Baker II
14-06-2010, 10:44 AM
It wouldn't be so vitriolic if Scotland qualified once in a while. This is the 6th consecutive tournament where Scotland have been absent from the final stages. IMO people are becoming increasingly focused on hating England due to not having our own team to support.

Do not agree, it was equally, if not more, vitriolic when we did qualify, for the same reasons that such vitriol is justifiable now. The English-imposed view through media such as TV that we pay for directly, was even more unacceptable when other teams from the British Isles were there too.

Having a Scottish-based perspective, ie like all other countries who view the world cup, is the only way such vitriol will reduce (though will mnot disappear, there are other issues such as history, politics, English dominanc eof top jobs in many areas of Scotland) which will continue. If we were given 10% of the BBC budget that would ensure pundirty of adequate quality so anyone saying they do not want McLean/Vipond etc completely misses the point.

Peevemor
14-06-2010, 10:53 AM
Do not agree, it was equally, if not more, vitriolic when we did qualify, for the same reasons that such vitriol is justifiable now. The English-imposed view through media such as TV that we pay for directly, was even more unacceptable when other teams from the British Isles were there too.

Having a Scottish-based perspective, ie like all other countries who view the world cup, is the only way such vitriol will reduce (though will mnot disappear, there are other issues such as history, politics, English dominanc eof top jobs in many areas of Scotland) which will continue. If we were given 10% of the BBC budget that would ensure pundirty of adequate quality so anyone saying they do not want McLean/Vipond etc completely misses the point.

I'm not in Scotland, but everyone else seems to be saying otherwise.

Phil D. Rolls
14-06-2010, 11:08 AM
It does wind me up alittle when the English big themselves up to be "world beaters" and have "the best league in the world" etc etc having lived here in england all my life, however it seems to be the media and the "Fans" who trumpet this balls. I spend alot of time with people who understand the game (I teach and study the game with them) and the ones who do know their game know england wont do well. Maybe they will fluke to the semi's if results go their way but if they dont they are coming home in the second round realistically.

Capello is a coaching hero of mine but at the end of the day he can only train them, inform them, coach them and prepare them for a game... once the whistle goes then it is up to the players.

Englands (and the rest of the UKs football teams tbf) problems are alot deeper than people think.

They have good teams and players, yet how many English teams were in CL final this year, and how many English players played in it?

No doubt England are a top team. The frustrating thing is the parochialism that they apply when assessing opposition intournaments. I don't think Capello or the players are that daft - more the people who are paid to give us expert opinion on the tournament.

pentlando
14-06-2010, 11:23 AM
England's failures are usually mentally over ability. The whole penalties thing shows this, the media's insistance they will win it every time adds huge pressure. This year they're simply not good enough compared to brazil, germany, holland, argentina etc.

As for the earlier arguments its natural when your team doesn't succeed you pick holes in your nearest rivals attempts, as we do when Hearts have a good season and vice versa. There's something comforting in knowing that if you can't win it, neither can they!

heretoday
14-06-2010, 11:23 AM
The English media is like a bunch of schoolkids with guns. When things go badly they will fire off in any direction.

Usually, we get it - but we can dish it out too.

What is mental is the harking back to the war stuff. The stereotyping is outrageous and genuinely offensive.

So far today I've heard that the Germans have been using the controversial new WC ball in their own league! This is described as "cold professionalism"!

Hibercelona
14-06-2010, 11:54 AM
Xenophobic nonsense.

Exemplify...

Example?

Ok.

When was the last time England actually beat a half decent side?

Or when was the last time England beat a low grade team and looked comfortable doing so and not just sheer damn lucky?

Sir David Gray
14-06-2010, 11:56 AM
Yup :top marks I get asked a lot here where I am from, once it is found out I am Scottish it is open arms time, mind you a certain gentleman getting sent home from prison might have something to do with this lots attitude to us Scots :agree:.

For the record, I want them to get stuffed in every game they play, if that is Xenophobic, then I am a Xenophobe.

:top marks Hear, hear.

If wishing the English football team gets annihilated in every game that they play is xenophobic, racist and bigoted, then I, too, am a xenophobe, racist and a bigot.

Is there a club that we can all join? We could call it the xenobigocist club. :greengrin

CropleyWasGod
14-06-2010, 12:00 PM
Example?

Ok.

When was the last time England actually beat a half decent side?

Or when was the last time England beat a low grade team and looked comfortable doing so and not just sheer damn lucky?

I asked for examples to show that they were "keeking their breeks" and "not wanting to qualify".

jakki
14-06-2010, 12:03 PM
Fact! Anywhere I travel I am asked if I am English, when I point out that I am Scottish this is greeted with (95% of the time) a very positive reaction followed by a comment that the person dosen't like the English. Jonny Foreigner doesn't do accents apparently.
I actually wanted England to do well, and still feel they might, up until the tournament kicked off and the cundits started spouting their gash.
I can agree wi that. In 1969 I was a student in Cologne and went to the Carnival Parade on Shrove Tuesday wi a group of Ford workers from England and Australia. To cut a long story short, I was pushed to the front of the crowd when the Germans knew I was Scottish with the cry of "Make way for the little Scottish lassie" and handed a carrier bag which was filled throughout the parade wi the items caught by the Germans from the passing floats, sweets, boxes of chocs and minatures of Eau de Cologne!
At the end of the Parade, I had 2 carrier bags full of goodies that I shared wi my English and Australian friends.The English ones couldnay understand why the Germans reacted to my Scottish statement but I guess it was their English arrogence which is still provailiant today.

During my stay in Germany, I made everyone aware that I was Scottish. I was at a beer festival and they were asking for Swizz to stand up and they got a clap, then it was the dutch ,, etc and then it was english. I shouted out "what about the scottish" and I was the only one to stand up but I got the biggest cheer the whole night.Anyone travelling in europe should make sure that they are not mistaken as English. Europeans love us, Scottish, but I don't know why but they do :greengrin

Dashing Bob S
14-06-2010, 12:12 PM
I think we probably need a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation, or at least a devolved off-shoot of the BBC. Much of the antagonism comes from having someone else's party pushed in your face. You know it really isn't yours, (I think even the saddest wannabee English Hun does deep down inside) but you're somehow expected to join in. Thus you're automatically set in the role of the poor deserving Dickensian urchin who is condescendingly invited to the rich kids party, as long as they sit in the corner and be quiet.

I'd love to see Scottish programming, not in order to snipe at or even ignore England, but to cover the World Cup in a broad-based internationalist way, paying attention to the other teams and non-English personalities in the tournament (I think there are a quite a few, though you'd never know it.) Reactionaries will say that this would undermine the concept of the UK, but I think it would strengthen it, if the smaller nations felt they were being treated with respect. Even if we don't make the finals, can at least watch it through our own lens, and discuss it in our own voice.

When you switch on the television for international football tournaments where England feature and Scotland don't (all of them now, and it ain't gonna change) or have to endure something like the cricket World Cup, NO NATION (and I say that as someone who travels and works abroad a lot) feels more colonialised.

Hibercelona
14-06-2010, 12:22 PM
I asked for examples to show that they were "keeking their breeks" and "not wanting to qualify".

My example of them "keeking their breeks" is their constant smug attitude.

Just because they are acting like over confident grade A fuds, doesn't mean that they actually are confident.

With the level of permormances England have put on in recent times, I certainly wouldn't be confident if I was an Englishmen. I don't think they are either. I think they know that they're going to get pumped.

judas
14-06-2010, 12:26 PM
They hate that we will not get behind them, simply because our nations are close together.

Its a major issue and its in the news constantly when we do not qualify.

Tonight i am watching the Germany game and the commentators and pundits are acting like someone has shot there granny because Germany are winning at football.

I know there was the war, but that was a long time ago now, no one playing for Germany had anything to do with it so why wont they give up the hate?

Because they are Rivals? Yep thats exactly it, but if someone scottish says they wont support England they are lambasted by others and seen as a lesser person because of a simple football rivalry.

We all have friends that are English and we probably dont hate them, not supporting there football team is a total non issue. I usually dont get riled up by this but the TV coverage attitude towards Germany is shocking they actually cannot stand to see them do anything decent and they cannot even praise them for outplaying Australia with Adrian Chiles coming out with the gem " Surely its just Australia making them look good?"

Are they really that scared of playing Germany?

You been drinking?

Part/Time Supporter
14-06-2010, 12:28 PM
I think we probably need a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation, or at least a devolved off-shoot of the BBC. Much of the antagonism comes from having someone else's party pushed in your face. You know it really isn't yours, (I think even the saddest wannabee English Hun does deep down inside) but you're somehow expected to join in. Thus you're automatically set in the role of the poor deserving Dickensian urchin who is condescendingly invited to the rich kids party, as long as they sit in the corner and be quiet.

I'd love to see Scottish programming, not in order to snipe at or even ignore England, but to cover the World Cup in a broad-based internationalist way, paying attention to the other teams and non-English personalities in the tournament (I think there are a quite a few, though you'd never know it.) Reactionaries will say that this would undermine the concept of the UK, but I think it would strengthen it, if the smaller nations felt they were being treated with respect. Even if we don't make the finals, can at least watch it through our own lens, and discuss it in our own voice.

When you switch on the television for international football tournaments where England feature and Scotland don't (all of them now, and it ain't gonna change) or have to endure something like the cricket World Cup, NO NATION (and I say that as someone who travels and works abroad a lot) feels more colonialised.

Even as a nationalist, I didn't agree with this before, but I do now.

I have just moved down here. The guy I am renting a room from was taken aback when I told him that there was no separate coverage of the World Cup in Scotland, either on BBC or ITV/STV. BBC and ITV seem to think that having Alan Hansen as a pundit or Craig Burley as a colourman is sufficient to provide balance.

Also look at the nickel-and-dime BBC Scotland coverage of the Argentina v Scotland rugby match on Saturday. They simply used a feed from a Latin American version of ESPN, with John Beattie and Andy Nicol commentating from a studio in Glasgow. For a start the BBC were going to allow the match to not even be covered at all, purely because England were playing a football match that was being covered on ITV! Could anyone imagine the England team (who haven't won at Murrayfield in their last three visits) being treated with this level of disrespect?

CropleyWasGod
14-06-2010, 12:33 PM
My example of them "keeking their breeks" is their constant smug attitude.

.

Doesn't follow.

basehibby
14-06-2010, 01:28 PM
I think we probably need a Scottish Broadcasting Corporation, or at least a devolved off-shoot of the BBC. Much of the antagonism comes from having someone else's party pushed in your face. You know it really isn't yours, (I think even the saddest wannabee English Hun does deep down inside) but you're somehow expected to join in. Thus you're automatically set in the role of the poor deserving Dickensian urchin who is condescendingly invited to the rich kids party, as long as they sit in the corner and be quiet.

I'd love to see Scottish programming, not in order to snipe at or even ignore England, but to cover the World Cup in a broad-based internationalist way, paying attention to the other teams and non-English personalities in the tournament (I think there are a quite a few, though you'd never know it.) Reactionaries will say that this would undermine the concept of the UK, but I think it would strengthen it, if the smaller nations felt they were being treated with respect. Even if we don't make the finals, can at least watch it through our own lens, and discuss it in our own voice.

When you switch on the television for international football tournaments where England feature and Scotland don't (all of them now, and it ain't gonna change) or have to endure something like the cricket World Cup, NO NATION (and I say that as someone who travels and works abroad a lot) feels more colonialised.

:top marks Well said Bob! Enduring the media based barrage of Engerland propoganda makes it very easy for any home based Scot to support ABE. I say this as someone who has sometimes actually managed to watch these games with a studied neutrality when based in England (the media pish is perfectly justifiable in their own country which somehow makes it a lot more bearable), but felt naturally inclined to shout for the USA on saturday.

Every crappy advert and hypocritical headline imploring us to back them, every tortured note emanating from Venables' tuneless gob, every tv show supposedly about the WC tourney but actually just another excuse for English cheerleading is another drip drip of water torture onto every Scotsman's brain with the result that supporting whoever England's opponents are is the most natural thing in the world - and you know what? I do actually quite enjoy it!

It's nice to have an arch enemy to jeer and laugh at, and England are always usually so obliging in the laughter stakes - they build themselves up so much that the fall is usually quite spectacular - as someone else has pointed out there's almost something Jamboesque about their delusions of grandeur and certainly something very jamboesque about their tendency to be the architects of their own downfall.

Back to the original point though - it's definately the unwelcome and cloying media coverage in Scotland which makes the difference - as someone who's actually managed to watch England games as a neutral when watching in England with English pals in the past, I think it's significant that I find that pretty much impossible to do in my own homeland. If that's the case for me how are the majority of Scots with perhaps even less sympathy for the English point of view going to feel?

HibeeB
14-06-2010, 02:20 PM
So far today I've heard that the Germans have been using the controversial new WC ball in their own league! This is described as "cold professionalism"!

:greengrin

Someone on the commentary team last night was aghast that the Germans had the audacity to have been paracticing :Ummm:

62HF
14-06-2010, 04:53 PM
Xenophobic nonsense.

That's OTT. It's simple banter, football rivalry, nothing more, nothing less. There's a world of difference between that and xenophobia.

clerriehibs
14-06-2010, 04:57 PM
It wouldn't be so vitriolic if Scotland qualified once in a while. This is the 6th consecutive tournament where Scotland have been absent from the final stages. IMO people are becoming increasingly focused on hating England due to not having our own team to support.

Not necessarily true.

What is true is that the English media make a point of noting that the Celtic (hard c) nations do not support England, and often claim to be puzzled by this.

What is also true is that the English media are at least as xenophobic about the Germans, the French, the Argentinians, and after last night, add the Australians (Clive Tildesly, commentator - "I almost feel sorry for Australia, even as an Englishman and Englishmen never feel sorry for Australia in a sporting context"). Add to that Adrian Chiles's disappointment that Desailly didn't hold up England as French rivals; that was an obvious "that's not right, because we don't like you" moment.

I used to live in England; I know for a fact that when Scotland have qualified for major finals in the past, the TV companies down there always covered Scotland games with the English commentary team. This was despite there being a perfectly adequate Scottish commentary team. Conversely, despite there being a Scottish commentary team at the finals, viewers in Scotland would still get the English commentary team for the England games.

Scots, in a sporting context, have to watch English national coverage; that's going to create friction. What's the Englishman's excuse, in a sporting context, for not liking Germany/France/Argentina/Australia? There was a war/they eat snails/there was a war/they rarely let England win the Ashes?

It might be pathetic ... but when you add things like the 'new' BBC weather map shows a tilted UK, with Scotland being about 2/3 of its size relative to a magnified view of England, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! :grr:

CropleyWasGod
14-06-2010, 05:14 PM
That's OTT. It's simple banter, football rivalry, nothing more, nothing less. There's a world of difference between that and xenophobia.

Okay, would you accept "narrow-minded nonsense". He has still to come up with any plausible evidence that they are scared of qualifying.

Removed
14-06-2010, 05:43 PM
Plenty posts on this thread I agree with and plenty I disagree with. But if this picture doesn't put a smile on your face then you are taking it way too seriously imo :agree: :greengrin

Haymaker
14-06-2010, 05:45 PM
They have good teams and players, yet how many English teams were in CL final this year, and how many English players played in it?

No doubt England are a top team. The frustrating thing is the parochialism that they apply when assessing opposition intournaments. I don't think Capello or the players are that daft - more the people who are paid to give us expert opinion on the tournament.


My point is that the English media and the graduates of the university of "some-bloke-in-the-pub-told-me" trumpet they are the best and best league in the world is annoying as anyone who knows alittle can see that the English team and the english players are limited compared to other nations. I could stand the media and fans rubbish if it were true and England had a team that could win the world cup, they simply cannot without a HUGE amount of luck on their side. One of the biggest reasons behind this is a old and outdated english development system for youth players which wont be changing anytime soon either.

England for their size should be contenders but they wont be.

The quicker the EFA (and its scottish counterpart) wake up and adapt the better for both nations. However as both FA's have so far refused to acknowledge that they need to change everything we wont be seeing much improvement.

mjhibby
14-06-2010, 05:50 PM
What gets me is they really are nowhere near good enough to win it,their fans realise it but they still ask every tournament can they win it instead of how far can they go.They are usually ranked around 10th in the world and that sums up their chances.They are weak at gk,rb right midfield and up front they dont know who to play beside rooney.Qtrs is the limit i think for them as if they get to the semis they will get seriously humped.That would be nice mind you.Germany for me as they always seem to rise above their lack of quality and produce the goods.

mjhibby
14-06-2010, 05:54 PM
Not necessarily true.

What is true is that the English media make a point of noting that the Celtic (hard c) nations do not support England, and often claim to be puzzled by this.

What is also true is that the English media are at least as xenophobic about the Germans, the French, the Argentinians, and after last night, add the Australians (Clive Tildesly, commentator - "I almost feel sorry for Australia, even as an Englishman and Englishmen never feel sorry for Australia in a sporting context"). Add to that Adrian Chiles's disappointment that Desailly didn't hold up England as French rivals; that was an obvious "that's not right, because we don't like you" moment.

I used to live in England; I know for a fact that when Scotland have qualified for major finals in the past, the TV companies down there always covered Scotland games with the English commentary team. This was despite there being a perfectly adequate Scottish commentary team. Conversely, despite there being a Scottish commentary team at the finals, viewers in Scotland would still get the English commentary team for the England games.

Scots, in a sporting context, have to watch English national coverage; that's going to create friction. What's the Englishman's excuse, in a sporting context, for not liking Germany/France/Argentina/Australia? There was a war/they eat snails/there was a war/they rarely let England win the Ashes?

It might be pathetic ... but when you add things like the 'new' BBC weather map shows a tilted UK, with Scotland being about 2/3 of its size relative to a magnified view of England, just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! :grr:

I think having rob mclean commentating on england and pat nevin summarising would actually be ok as they would give an objective view on the games which the ebc just cant do especially lineker who is just so irratating.God knows how hansen puts up with him.

Leicester Fan
14-06-2010, 09:02 PM
I'm not feeling the love chaps.

ronaldo7
14-06-2010, 09:15 PM
I'm not feeling the love chaps.

I know... see that Rob Green, he's getting it all:greengrin

62HF
14-06-2010, 09:31 PM
Okay, would you accept "narrow-minded nonsense". He has still to come up with any plausible evidence that they are scared of qualifying.

Fair enough, I don't think they are scared of qualifying. As for narrow-mindedness, anyone who seriously hates all English people (or any other nationality for that matter) on the basis of, well, for any reason, needs the help of a good psychiatrist. I was referring more to the general tongue in cheek nature of most ABE type comments.

calamitus
14-06-2010, 10:51 PM
I've got a few English friends, and to be honest, it's a bit embarassing when they watch a game in a Scottish boozer. When I watched a Scotland game in a London pub, the crowd were cheering us on, but when we watch a game up here, it's the usual story.
I think it's fair enough that the media, which is 90% English, get right behind their team, but I agree with the earlier posts about more Scottish based international sports coverage. Imagine the footage of Archie Gemmil's '78 goal vs Holland with Motty commenting on it instead of Archie MacPherson (injeed). I think a Scottish version of the BBC, would be taking it a bit far, though. Nothing gets me moving for the remote faster than those opening bars of the Ruvr Shutty theme tune.

Where I think it goes wrong is in the arrogance and lack of respect the English pundits sometimes show to other teams, like it's their birthright to progress beyond the group stages. Although this understandably annoys us, in my opinion, it makes us look a wee bit small minded when we then use that as an excuse to cheer on ABE. The English are just waking up to the fact that we don't support them(understatement), and that's probably why it's being mentioned in the media, but till now, it's been pretty one sided, just like their great rivalry with Germany, which the Germans are blissfully unaware of - the Germans think about the Dutch in the same way. It's generally the team with the inferiority complex that does all of the hating and griping about the better team, which is why I'm not even going to mention any other club:wink:

sunshine1875
15-06-2010, 08:06 AM
If ManU reached the Champions League final, would Man City fans support them because they share the same city. No.

If Rangers reached the Champions League final, would Celtic fans support them because they share the same city. No.

If Hibs reached the Champions League final, would Hertz fans support us because they share the same city. No.

No, No, Never. I really don't see what the fuss is. England are our nearest rivals and I will never support them.

Some English people say that if Scotland had qualified and England not, then they would want us to win the World Cup. Easy saying that when it is never going to happen. A bit like me saying "If Hertz get to the Champion League final, I will support them". It is never going to happen.

Would an English person really support Scotland if we had the population of 55 million versus 5 million. When super-Scotland is being rammed down their throats every minute of the day. When the Scottish media mention the previous time they won the World Cup on every occasion. When Scotland get to the latter stages of every tournament, whilst they are at home watching on the telly. Not a chance.

Phil D. Rolls
15-06-2010, 09:22 AM
If ManU reached the Champions League final, would Man City fans support them because they share the same city. No.

If Rangers reached the Champions League final, would Celtic fans support them because they share the same city. No.

If Hibs reached the Champions League final, would Hertz fans support us because they share the same city. No.

No, No, Never. I really don't see what the fuss is. England are our nearest rivals and I will never support them.

Some English people say that if Scotland had qualified and England not, then they would want us to win the World Cup. Easy saying that when it is never going to happen. A bit like me saying "If Hertz get to the Champion League final, I will support them". It is never going to happen.

Would an English person really support Scotland if we had the population of 55 million versus 5 million. When super-Scotland is being rammed down their throats every minute of the day. When the Scottish media mention the previous time they won the World Cup on every occasion. When Scotland get to the latter stages of every tournament, whilst they are at home watching on the telly. Not a chance.

You talk to a genuine football supporter in England, and they would understand this. The problem is that so many people with no understanding of what supporting a team actually means, get involved in football - once every four years.

HibeeB
15-06-2010, 11:48 AM
Plenty posts on this thread I agree with and plenty I disagree with. But if this picture doesn't put a smile on your face then you are taking it way too seriously imo :agree: :greengrin


:hilarious

I guess I'm not taking it too seriously then.


:thumbsup:

Peevemor
15-06-2010, 11:51 AM
Plenty posts on this thread I agree with and plenty I disagree with. But if this picture doesn't put a smile on your face then you are taking it way too seriously imo :agree: :greengrin


Barry! :thumbsup:

NorthNorfolkHFC
15-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Plenty posts on this thread I agree with and plenty I disagree with. But if this picture doesn't put a smile on your face then you are taking it way too seriously imo :agree: :greengrin

I believe this is the residence of myself and cowie1. Seems like we have started some sort of internet phenomenon!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA

"I don't hate the English, they're just w*****s!!!" Mark Renton

Phil D. Rolls
16-06-2010, 08:59 AM
Plenty posts on this thread I agree with and plenty I disagree with. But if this picture doesn't put a smile on your face then you are taking it way too seriously imo :agree: :greengrin

:faf:


I think having rob mclean commentating on england and pat nevin summarising would actually be ok as they would give an objective view on the games which the ebc just cant do especially lineker who is just so irratating.God knows how hansen puts up with him.

Hansen is probably the sort of decent bloke who realises he is an arrogant w*nk himself, and so makes allowances for Lineker.

Or he is the sort of arrogant smug **** who thinks he is above commenting on other people's mistakes, as it is an established fact that everyone else in the world are silly people.