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hibs0666
06-06-2010, 10:07 AM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?

sahib
06-06-2010, 10:19 AM
I think he is correct in that assumption. Europe most seasons is the limit of our ambitions. In a cynical business sense, it probably offers the best chance of keeping crowd numbers up and maximising income. This does not put the strain on the budget, that maintaining a squad capable of winning the league would exert.

Jack
06-06-2010, 10:20 AM
Its the next realistic step.
.
The step after that, I would hope, would be to qualify more regularly in Europe and continually do better.
.
Its unrealistic to think of World Cup stars and European domination. That would be stupidity of epic proportions and only complete fools could be taken in.
.
Also domestically if we strive to be in more semis and finals of cup competitions we'll maybe win a cup or two too.
.

Chuckie
06-06-2010, 10:21 AM
What a helmet...

The height of his ambition is to slaver for that weejie rag.
Great achievement Waddell.

Spike Mandela
06-06-2010, 10:22 AM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?


Yes if I'm brutally honest. Apart from the year's that our team is crap and height of our ambition is to 'make the top six'.

As for having a stadium and training centre to be proud of well the club may be proud (and rightly so) but it doesn't do that much for me if I'm honest.

Yes it may be the business model to follow for Scottish clubs but IMO all Rod is doing is increasing the value of his percentage upon a sale which should be substantial now. I don't think Rod lies in bed at night dreaming of winning the Scottish Cup (Unlike me:wink:)

hibbie02
06-06-2010, 10:28 AM
Regular European Football and a Scottish Cup win are our aspirations. If ever it looked like we could challenge the OF for the SPL, our squad would be decimated in the January of that season and our best players would be off down the M8 with pair of tweezers and some cream to deal with the splinters they would be acquiring in their erses. :agree:

Toaods
06-06-2010, 10:29 AM
I think he has confused 'the limits of their ambitions' with 'their immediate targets in an increasingly secure future'. :bye:

Jones28
06-06-2010, 10:39 AM
I think he's right, but only to an extent.

A world class training centre, an excellent international-standard fully UEFA compliant stadium, a manage-able debt and a youth academy that has produced £18million worth of talent over the past 10 or so years are the building blocks for a club of the future.

Now money from sales gets sunk back into the club and either cuts back the debt or invests in the squad. It may take 5-10 years of waiting for the fans and there WILL be frustrations and disapointments and perhaps some talent being sold, but it will make the eventual emergence of Hibs as the 3+ force in the SPL all the sweeter.

The future's bright :flag: :agree:

Aldo
06-06-2010, 10:45 AM
Without green tinted specks....

He has got it spot on TBH. 3rd or 4th in the league and reaching the SF/Final of the cups and hopefully winning one every now and again is our limit.

And yes it pains me to say it.

Hibernian Verse
06-06-2010, 10:48 AM
That is our limit. But I think that the board would argue that it's our immediate limit, and not perhaps our long-term limit. They'd say that they're working towards being able to challenge the Old Firm within so many years, be it 5, 10 or 20.

Ask Rod!

Alfred E Newman
06-06-2010, 10:50 AM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?

He is right in respect that those things would be the Clubs ambition 10 years ago . Now that has been achieved, I would hope a higher target would now be in place, given that the Old Firm are not short of money problems and Hearts are just about out the box.
No lower than 4th every season , narrowing the gap between the Old Firm and the rest and cup wins would be realistic now.

Aldo
06-06-2010, 10:51 AM
That is our limit. But I think that the board would argue that it's our immediate limit, and not perhaps our long-term limit. They'd say that they're working towards being able to challenge the Old Firm within so many years, be it 5, 10 or 20.Ask Rod!

Spot on. It has taken us a while to get here and I think we are in a bit of a transitional period on the field. Hopefully once the stadium is finished we can concentrate on getting a consistent team on the pitch that will challenge the ugly sisters.

RoYO!
06-06-2010, 11:00 AM
It was the limit of our ambitions for the past few decades perhaps.

your ambitions as a club constantly change.

It was our ambition early 90's to build a cracking stadium on the current site... And guess what...

It was our ambition to build a top quality training centre rather than train on public parks....

Was our ambition to trade our way out of debt...

Looking forward, the league is the next reasonable ambition and the cups... We've achieved everything else.

Phil MaGlass
06-06-2010, 11:05 AM
not the only one

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2010/06/05/hibs-are-the-ideal-model-on-how-clubs-should-nurture-and-profit-from-talent-pool-says-dundee-united-chief-stephen-thompson-86908-22311506/

NORTHERNHIBBY
06-06-2010, 11:21 AM
We need to get to the point where we have consistent end points of thirds and fourths with more points between us and the chasers and less points behind the teams in front of us. And decent cup runs. I look at our " bigger" ,neighbours across the toon and make an easy conclusion, that their recent Scottish Cup wins have cost them 18 million pounds each that they can't get back. As much as I want to see our team win that cup, I don't want it that badly.

hibs0666
06-06-2010, 01:35 PM
It was the limit of our ambitions for the past few decades perhaps.

your ambitions as a club constantly change.

It was our ambition early 90's to build a cracking stadium on the current site... And guess what...

It was our ambition to build a top quality training centre rather than train on public parks....

Was our ambition to trade our way out of debt...

Looking forward, the league is the next reasonable ambition and the cups... We've achieved everything else.

That would be my take on it. Our ambition of the past few years has been to develop a modern, affordable and sustainable infrastructure. With that ambition having been fully realised the time is now right to move our level of ambition up a notch or two.

I would love to see a day at Easter Road becoming a compelling spectacle before, during and after each game, so much so that tickets become gold dust. Punters want to be in the ground an hour before the game to savour the party atmosphere and are thrilled to be Hibs twelfth man which, win or lose, gives everything for the cause. After the game, win or lose, the players and supporters demonstrate their mutual respect and affection as the party continues in the ground and beyond.

That should keep us going for another twenty years. :wink:

jgl07
06-06-2010, 01:40 PM
I think Hibs ambitions should be to challenge the old firm, win the Champions' League within five years and not get beat 5-0 by any team.

Hang on..........

BT58
06-06-2010, 01:47 PM
i think that in many ways the guy has got it correct
at the start of the season, i would think the majority of say 4 teams ambition would be to win the spl
but unfortunatly due to injuries+suspensions and squad size we cannot compete against the so called mighty auld firm.
But now that the final segment is being completed, our focus should be on HIGHER targets
if we could raise season ticket sales to say 15k per season, then JH could surely attract a better class of player to ER [but we would then in turn have to pay more than the 3k per week].
i think that we ALL would love to see hibs winning the LEAGUE,[not mentioning the holy grail]
it looks like its down to RP/JH to see what the future holds:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
hb

Baldy Foghorn
06-06-2010, 05:29 PM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?

Don't see much wrong with what was written.

We are not really title contenders, and should be aiming fro European football every season.

Pretty much what he has said is it not?

Phil D. Rolls
06-06-2010, 06:28 PM
I think we may see European Leagues taking over from domestic ones in the coming years. I would like to think that we would meet the criteria for inclusion in one of these.

Kaiser1962
06-06-2010, 06:46 PM
I think we may see European Leagues taking over from domestic ones in the coming years. I would like to think that we would meet the criteria for inclusion in one of these.

I agree. I have felt for a while that the whole structure of football in Europe is hanging by a thread given the unsustainable debt that a lot of clubs are in and judgement day is coming. I feel we are well placed to successfully meet any criteria laid down by UEFA/FIFA. Those criteria will be Stadia, Training facilities, Youth policy and finances.

Phil D. Rolls
06-06-2010, 06:48 PM
I agree. I have felt for a while that the whole structure of football in Europe is hanging by a thread given the unsustainable debt that a lot of clubs are in and judgement day is coming. I feel we are well placed to successfully meet any criteria laid down by UEFA/FIFA. Those criteria will be Stadia, Training facilities, Youth policy and finances.

Our war record might go against us though. :greengrin

greenlex
06-06-2010, 06:49 PM
Nope he is wrong. That should be the minimum requirement going forward. Add some silverware to it as ambition then that would be a fair assumtion I reckon.:bye:

weonlywon6-2
06-06-2010, 06:53 PM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?

not really. it is a work in progress with hibs for the last few years.a lot has improved under rod and long may it continue !!

Vini1875
06-06-2010, 07:13 PM
I think our ambition is Europe and a cup win surely. I still don't think we have a squad to win the league, but we should be much closer than 20 or 30 points behind.

Dashing Bob S
06-06-2010, 07:25 PM
Our war record might go against us though. :greengrin

I take the opposite view. I think the fact that we were pacifists quietly exploiting the lucrative wartime clothespeg market will stand us in good stead. We haven't alienated any of Blatters boys, unlike Johnny, sorry Tommy Yam, romping bravely across frontier Europa, bayonet in hand.

Franck is God
06-06-2010, 07:29 PM
our ambition is limited by our own fickle fans. we lost a whole side of our stadium and still couldn't sell every seat in a home derby when we were challenging for a European spot.

A lot of Hibs fans seem to want the success already in place before they hand any money over.

All football clubs cannot afford to spend more than they earn again, our playing budget will not increase until the crowds do, the sales of players have paid for the stadium, the training centre and reduced the debt hugely but going forward we are ones who will have the biggest influence on how much we spend on players in the future.

Comiston Hibee
06-06-2010, 07:32 PM
I take the opposite view. I think the fact that we were pacifists quietly exploiting the lucrative wartime clothespeg market will stand us in good stead. We haven't alienated any of Blatters boys, unlike Johnny, sorry Tommy Yam, romping bravely across frontier Europa, bayonet in hand.

goc £1.7m
scott brown £4.4m
katie thomson £2m
whitaker £2m
spoule £450k
deek £175k
fletcher £3m
murphy £1m
shelton £50k!
mowbray to w brom £400k
caldwell - free

who have I missed out?

Phil D. Rolls
06-06-2010, 07:36 PM
I take the opposite view. I think the fact that we were pacifists quietly exploiting the lucrative wartime clothespeg market will stand us in good stead. We haven't alienated any of Blatters boys, unlike Johnny, sorry Tommy Yam, romping bravely across frontier Europa, bayonet in hand.

Indeed, I understand caravanning is a very popular past time in the Netherlands for example. Our lack of class and ambition, preferring to be all things to all people, may be the key to a future amongst Europe's elite.

Stew the Hibee
06-06-2010, 08:24 PM
goc £1.7m
scott brown £4.4m
katie thomson £2m
whitaker £2m
spoule £450k
deek £175k
fletcher £3m
murphy £1m
shelton £50k!
mowbray to w brom £400k
caldwell - free

who have I missed out?

Should it not be 4 mil for fletch due to the sell on clause?

IWasThere2016
06-06-2010, 08:45 PM
I agree with Aldo - sadly Waddell is right IMHO.

ekhibee
06-06-2010, 11:57 PM
Yes if I'm brutally honest. Apart from the year's that our team is crap and height of our ambition is to 'make the top six'.

As for having a stadium and training centre to be proud of well the club may be proud (and rightly so) but it doesn't do that much for me if I'm honest.

Yes it may be the business model to follow for Scottish clubs but IMO all Rod is doing is increasing the value of his percentage upon a sale which should be substantial now. I don't think Rod lies in bed at night dreaming of winning the Scottish Cup (Unlike me:wink:)
Yep,totally agree.

Oscar Lomax
07-06-2010, 12:17 AM
He is very much corect. It has taken me thirty odd years to realise it though. This is why I will be spending my Saturday afternoon's on the golf course, instead of watching Hibs.
I cant take it any more. If Stokes goes to Celtic, surely that will be the last straw for many?......I know Hibs need to sell to survive but it has become unbearable now.....At least my handicap will lower !!

basehibby
07-06-2010, 01:36 AM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?

Strictly speaking he's obviously spouting pish as we're talking about a club which once won three titles in 4 years and was the first into europe EVER from these isles - that was a long time ago but if our ambitions were ALWAYS so modest then it would never have happened.

The essence of what he's saying though is obviously aimed at more recent history and, even if his pish weedgie grammar makes it sound like an insult, he's not far off the mark if your talking about ambitions for where the team should be right now.

Looking into the future though, I'd hope that the clubs ambitions might stretch a little further - like being consistently "best of the rest" and maybe sneaking a surprise when the opportunity arises.

Franck is God
07-06-2010, 12:23 PM
Looking into the future though, I'd hope that the clubs ambitions might stretch a little further - like being consistently "best of the rest" and maybe sneaking a surprise when the opportunity arises.


I did a few wee sums and work out that if you average out ticket sales to £15 per head for Rangers, Celtic and Hibs based on reduced prices for consessions. Celtic (55k ST holders) have a ticket income of around £19m, Rangers (45k ST holders) around £16m and Hibs (average 11k home fans) around £4m. These figures are based on league games and 4 home matches in the domestic cups. If we all spent 55% of our gate money on transfer budget that means we can afford roughly £2m per season on wages, sounds like a lot but when you consider that a player on £4k per week is an annual spend of £208,000 it means we can't have too many of them.

If we want to be consistently 3rd, have regular opportunities to win trophies and maybe be in with a shot of pulling off that 'surprise' then we need our average crowds to be nearer 20k than 10k.

I know this isn't a shocking revelation to anyone but if we don't turn up in big numbers and support the team every week then how can we expect the club to show any more ambition that they have already.

basehibby
07-06-2010, 01:23 PM
I did a few wee sums and work out that if you average out ticket sales to £15 per head for Rangers, Celtic and Hibs based on reduced prices for consessions. Celtic (55k ST holders) have a ticket income of around £19m, Rangers (45k ST holders) around £16m and Hibs (average 11k home fans) around £4m. These figures are based on league games and 4 home matches in the domestic cups. If we all spent 55% of our gate money on transfer budget that means we can afford roughly £2m per season on wages, sounds like a lot but when you consider that a player on £4k per week is an annual spend of £208,000 it means we can't have too many of them.

If we want to be consistently 3rd, have regular opportunities to win trophies and maybe be in with a shot of pulling off that 'surprise' then we need our average crowds to be nearer 20k than 10k.

I know this isn't a shocking revelation to anyone but if we don't turn up in big numbers and support the team every week then how can we expect the club to show any more ambition that they have already.

That's a good point - if we want the bar to be raised then we have to do our bit and turn up and support the side. That said, there is always potential for an upset - otherwise teams like Motherwell and St Johnstone with between a third and a half of the support of Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen would never ever finish above these teams and qualify for Europe.
If Hibs can achieve steady improvement on the park now that the infrastructure is in place then a surprise 2nd place wouldn't be out of the question when one or the other of the gruesome twosome have one of their periodic bad years.

Dashing Bob S
07-06-2010, 01:46 PM
Strange being lectured on supposed the limits of our ambition by a Daily Record sports columnist. It's not as if he has a roomful of Pulitzer prizes, is it?

I think that Hibs future (at least in the context of perpetual grimness that is Scottish football) looks exciting. Our finances are in order and UEFA is now stipulating that clubs must be run in a sound financial manner to compete.

I think some high profile difficulties next season will concentrate the minds of domestic footballing authorities. You can rest assured that Scotland will be the last to put its house in order on this issue, but it sheepishly and reluctantly will once everybody else has.

We're in the position where or debt is low and running costs under control, so we should continue to attract and develop talented young players, trade some, augmenting our squad with experience.

I feel we should be regularly appearing in League and Scottish semi-finals and finals, and embedded in the European slots and starting to progress in Europe.

Everyone is aware of the massive economic, structural and cultural difficulties any team outside the OF have in winning the flag, but we should be ready to pounce -Lyon style- should they have a few bad years.

poolman
07-06-2010, 01:51 PM
He is very much corect. It has taken me thirty odd years to realise it though. This is why I will be spending my Saturday afternoon's on the golf course, instead of watching Hibs.
I cant take it any more. If Stokes goes to Celtic, surely that will be the last straw for many?......I know Hibs need to sell to survive but it has become unbearable now.....At least my handicap will lower !!


Wont miss you with that attitude :bitchy:

hibs0666
07-06-2010, 02:29 PM
He is very much corect. It has taken me thirty odd years to realise it though. This is why I will be spending my Saturday afternoon's on the golf course, instead of watching Hibs.
I cant take it any more. If Stokes goes to Celtic, surely that will be the last straw for many?......I know Hibs need to sell to survive but it has become unbearable now.....At least my handicap will lower !!

I'm surprised you waste your time on a Hibs messageboard.

aberhibsfc
07-06-2010, 02:41 PM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.



Patronising Twonk

jacomo
07-06-2010, 03:26 PM
The trash weegie media is always looking to goad one of the non-OF clubs into making some rash public declaration of their intent.

In recent past, Motherwell and Dundee have both come out with "We're gonna be the new third force in Scottish football"... and the media have enjoyed mocking them as their plans come unstuck.

Hibs don't do that kind of grandstanding, as we all know. However, what I read into the club's statements is that their is no set "limit" to our ambition - but we won't speculate in order to get ahead.

If Hibs can fill a 20,000 seat stadium, and if we can enjoy a run in Europe, then it stands to reason we'll have more money to invest in the squad. These are big "ifs", though.

poolman
07-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Gordon Waddell of the Sunday Mail writes today...

You have to hand it to chairman Rod Petrie at Hibs.

Steven Fletcher's move to Wolves in midweek sticks another £1million in the Easter Road coffers due to a sell-on clause.

Add that to the original fee and everything else he has taken in during the past five years from deals and it comes to an astonishing £17m.

Okay, you could argue if he had kept all those players they might have won the SPL but in the real world, where players would walk for nothing in a heartbeat, it's phenomenal business.

At the end of it all, they will have a stadium to be proud of, a manageable debt and a team still good enough to get them into Europe - which was always the limit of their ambitions anyway.

Is he right?


Condescending journalistic claptrap

aberhibsfc
07-06-2010, 03:55 PM
Outwith making up signings for 'IF Lennon' gets the Celtc joab, they don't have any six page spreads to do on the OF just now. So rather than try to encourage readership outwith the OF, which initially he may have been trying to do. He falls back into his OF appeasing nature and starts to make little jibes here and there.

*** Elmer.

camhibby1
07-06-2010, 04:32 PM
Patronising Twonk

Just returned from holiday and catching up. Couldn't agree more - patronising and insulting. What does Waddell know that we don't - has he access to Hibs' business plan? Has he spoken with the tache? I guess not. We have come a long way in recent years and I'm pretty certain that for the board and the club we are still evolving and a work in progress. This transfer window will give us a clue as to where we may go but it's definitely not the end of the story as Waddell impies - cheeky b****r!