Situation in Gaza

[(((Fergus)))]

Danish reporter Steffen Jensen visited Gaza day before yesterday to see how bad things are, given that the entire world is in an uproar over the humanitarian crisis there.

Link is in Danish but includes pictures. Translation below.

http://www.steffen-jensen.dk/dan/blogartikler/134--mere-mangel-pa-arbejde-end-pa-mad/&sl=da&tl=en


Judging from the media, the situation in Gaza is desperate, everything is about to collapse, and the community is on the brink or at the level of a third world country.

The Palestinian community's immediate downfall has been prophesied numerous times in the media. People have nothing to eat, we sometimes know. The UN must from time to time to stop food distribution, either because their stocks are running low, or because they can not get diesel for their trucks, and therefore can not carry food in. And so on.

Yesterday I drove into the Gaza Strip. I don't do this as often as before [because it takes much longer to get through the checkpoints now.]

This time, I had expected to see real suffering, because with all the fuss in recent days about bringing tons of humanitarian relief in - so much that people actually sacrificed their lives for it - there certainly had to really be a deep, desperate situation in the Gaza Strip. No food. Long queues in front of UN food stocks. Hungry children with food bowls.

But this was not the picture that greeted me.

When I yesterday morning drove through Gaza City, I was immediately surprised that there are almost as many traffic jams as there always has been. Is there not a shortage of fuel? Apparently not. Gasoline is not even rationed.

Many shops were closed yesterday, Hamas has declared a general strike in protest against Israel's brutal and deadly attack on the Turkish flotilla with pro-Palestinian activists on board. So it was difficult to estimate how many products were on the shelves. Therefore I went over to the Shati refugee camp, also known as Beach Camp. Here is one of Gaza's many vegetable markets that sell much more than just fruits and vegetables.

I will not say whether, in better times has been a larger product range than there was yesterday. But there was certainly no shortage of vegetables, fruits or any other ordinary, basic foods. Tomatoes, cucumbers, corn, watermelons, potatoes - mountains of these items in the many stalls.

I must admit I was a little surprised. Because when I call down here to my Palestinian friends, they tell me about all the problems and deficiencies, so I expected that the crisis was a little more clear.

And the first woman we interviewed in the market confirms this strange, contradictory, negative mindset:


"We have nothing," she said. We need everything! Food, drinks ... everything! "

It disturbed her not at least that she stood between the mountains of vegetables, fruit, eggs, poultry and fish, while she spun this doomsday scenario.

Yousuf al-Assad Yazgy owns a fruit and vegetable outlet here in the market. All his fruit is imported from Israel.

"Not all fruit and all vegetables come from Israel. Ours does. They come from Israel. But in the Gaza Strip there is not very much fruit cultivated. Mostly tomatoes, potatoes and vegetables. So here with me are the vegetables and watermelon were from Gaza. All the fruit comes across the border from Israel," he explains, but also says that there can be long periods when the border is closed, and which therefore fruit does not come in.

On the way out of the Shati camp we stop at a small grocery store. Not any fancy, expensive business. Just a small, humble local store. The proprietor Sun Mohammed Abu Nada says they would not be able to do business if it were not for contraband goods from Egypt.

He takes us on a brief tour of the shelves and shows everything that comes from Egypt. It turns out to be much more than half of the goods. 75-80 per cent. I would estimate. Several other products - including long-life UHT milk - comes from Israel, but is also smuggled through tunnels from Egypt.


The products are more expensive, he says. Many people cannot afford to buy them, or only to buy certain things sometimes. But all the while that even such a small, poor-looking grocery store on the outskirts of a refugee camp still has so many relatively expensive smuggled goods on the shelves shows nevertheless that many of the customers at least be able to afford to buy them. Otherwise, the merchant of course could not even afford to invest in unsold inventory.

This story I have written to postulate that there are problems in the Gaza Strip, because that would be untrue. There are problems. Many problems indeed. But it is not lack of food, which primarily concern people down here. The biggest problem is the lack of jobs and a sustainable domestic economy.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Yeah, and it would be a thoroughly logical step for everyone to take this bloke's (has anyone ever heard of him?) word rather than, oh I don't know, the word of the regular Special Rapporteurs from the United Nations, the United Nations Human Rights Council, Irish Foreign Minister Michael Martin, Jimmy Carter, the Pope, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Oxfam, Care International UK, the Mercy Corps and the International Committee of the Red Cross. All of whom have produced frequent documentary evidence of a sustained humanitarian crisis as a result of the Israeli blockade.

Thanks for opening our eyes, Fergus...

[Jack]

Danish reporter Steffen Jensen visited Gaza day before yesterday to see how bad things are, given that the entire world is in an uproar over the humanitarian crisis there.

Link is in Danish but includes pictures. Translation below.

http://www.steffen-jensen.dk/dan/blogartikler/134--mere-mangel-pa-arbejde-end-pa-mad/&sl=da&tl=en

Difficult to decide with his sort of background whether he is pro Israeli :cool2:

From 2002 …


Steffen Jensen, the Jerusalem correspondent for Denmark's TV2, has nowhere to escape to. He has lived in Jerusalem for 10 years. He was born in Copenhagen, studied at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and married an Israeli woman. He has covered most of the recent wars in the region. "The Israelis don't understand the importance of the media at all," he says. "Closing the territories was a terrible mistake and was perceived by the world as an attempt at a cover-up."

Maybe the Israelis are beginning to understand the importance of the media after all?

[(((Fergus)))]

UPDATE: From Xinhua:

Hamas authorities on Tuesday refused to receive aid and supplies to the Gaza Strip through Israel, stressing that Israel must first free pro-Palestinian campaigners who were onboard an aid flotilla.

Israel can send aid that Gaza flotilla had carried to the coastal enclave "only if the shipments are complete and when Israel release all activists who were onboard the ships, Ziad Al- Zaza, Hamas' Minister of Economy, told Xinhua.

"The priority is to release the detained activists," Al-Zaza added.

On Monday, the Israeli navy stopped five of the vessels that were en route to Gaza to defy a three-year-old Israeli blockade, killing nine international activists and forcing the ships that carried 10,000 tons of aid into its sea ports.

Today, Israel allowed part of the aid, which originally included construction materials and medical supplies, to Gaza through one of its land crossing points, but Hamas refused to let that shipment in, witnesses told Xinhua.

How critical is this aid then?

[Hainan Hibs]

Pictures of a few vegetables at a market.

Well that's me convinced. I don't know what the Gaza citizens and independent international charity organisations have to complain about.

[(((Fergus)))]

Difficult to decide with his sort of background whether he is pro Israeli :cool2:

From 2002 …



Maybe the Israelis are beginning to understand the importance of the media after all?


Possible he is pro-Israel and possible he staged the photographs - there's been a lot of that recently :wink:

So here's some pictures from the Palestinian press. It's of Ramadan in Gaza last August:

http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-55720.html

[RyeSloan]

Possible he is pro-Israel and possible he staged the photographs - there's been a lot of that recently :wink:

So here's some pictures from the Palestinian press. It's of Ramadan in Gaza last August:

http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-55720.html

I don't really get what you are trying to say here...

If it's that actually Gaza is just fine and that it's citizens are actually living a happy normal life then a few pictures of a market or vegatables don't prove that.

Fact is that Gaza is effectively a failed state and basics like power, water and medical services are sporadic at best.

For anyone to try and portray this sorry strip of land as being 'normal' despite having to smuggle almost everything via tunnels from Egypt is frankly quite bizzare

[Jack]

Fergus. I'm sure if you were amongst the poorest people in this country their Christmas diner table would be considerably different from what they have, say a month later.
.
And I would suggest he probably is pro Israeli, did you not read it? He wouldn't have managed to live there for 10 years and then 8 years later, wherever he's living now, if he had been anti Israeli Authoritism he would not have had access to Gaza. Don't you think?
.

[Tazio]

Well lets hope they all eat their five a day from the vegetable stall then. Because if they get cancer or any other serious illness then they are in real trouble due to the lack of essential medical supplies.

There is also the cruel irony that the IDF bombed and destroyed a huge amount of the agricultural infrastructure in Gaza but Israeli companies supply goods to them now, for money one presumes.

[(((Fergus)))]

Here's what the Palestinian Authority have to say about the blockade and humanitarian crisis in Gaza. :



From the Jerusalem Post:
The Palestinian Authority is concerned about Turkey’s increased support for Hamas, a PA official in Ramallah said on Monday.

The official said that the PA leadership was “unhappy” with Turkey’s policy toward Hamas, especially with regard to pressure to lift the blockade on the Gaza Strip unconditionally.

“Turkey’s policy is emboldening Hamas and undermining the Palestinian Authority,” the official told The Jerusalem Post.

“Of course we want to see the blockade lifted, but Hamas must also end its coup in the Gaza Strip and accept an Egyptian proposal for achieving reconciliation with Fatah.”

The PA is also concerned the reopening of the Rafah border crossing to Sinai would enable Hamas to tighten its grip on the Strip.

“We wish to remind the Turkish and Egyptian governments that the border crossing was controlled by the Palestinian Authority before Hamas launched its coup in 2007,” the official added. “If the Rafah border crossing is going to be reopened, that should be done in coordination with us and not with Hamas.”

Azzam al-Ahmed, a top Fatah official in the West Bank, was quoted over the weekend as saying that he was opposed to the lifting of the blockade on the Gaza Strip until Hamas agreed to end the dispute with his faction.

Ahmed stressed that there was no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip because the PA government was sending aid through Israeli border crossings.


I don't think it's strictly true that everything is rosy in Gaza since those people who are not in the pockets of Hamas are at the very end of the queue when it comes to receiving aid, housing, jobs, etc.

In other words there is a Hamas blockade on Gaza along with the Israeli and Egyptian one.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Here's what the Palestinian Authority have to say about the blockade and humanitarian crisis in Gaza. :

From the Jerusalem Post:
The Palestinian Authority is concerned about Turkey’s increased support for Hamas, a PA official in Ramallah said on Monday.

The official said that the PA leadership was “unhappy” with Turkey’s policy toward Hamas, especially with regard to pressure to lift the blockade on the Gaza Strip unconditionally.
“Turkey’s policy is emboldening Hamas and undermining the Palestinian Authority,” the official told The Jerusalem Post.

“Of course we want to see the blockade lifted, but Hamas must also end its coup in the Gaza Strip and accept an Egyptian proposal for achieving reconciliation with Fatah.”

The PA is also concerned the reopening of the Rafah border crossing to Sinai would enable Hamas to tighten its grip on the Strip.

“We wish to remind the Turkish and Egyptian governments that the border crossing was controlled by the Palestinian Authority before Hamas launched its coup in 2007,” the official added. “If the Rafah border crossing is going to be reopened, that should be done in coordination with us and not with Hamas.”

Azzam al-Ahmed, a top Fatah official in the West Bank, was quoted over the weekend as saying that he was opposed to the lifting of the blockade on the Gaza Strip until Hamas agreed to end the dispute with his faction.
Ahmed stressed that there was no humanitarian crisis in the Gaza Strip because the PA government was sending aid through Israeli border crossings.

I don't think it's strictly true that everything is rosy in Gaza since those people who are not in the pockets of Hamas are at the very end of the queue when it comes to receiving aid, housing, jobs, etc.

In other words there is a Hamas blockade on Gaza along with the Israeli and Egyptian one.

Jesus, the P.N.A. gets worse by the day. It's also worth noting that there's no quote whatsoever from al-Ahmad on the situation in Gaza.

At the risk of taking this stuff seriously, al-Ahmad is very high up in Fatah and Fatah does brilliantly out of the siege. Their upper echelons get millions of dollars from the U.S. and Israel to collaborate in the immiseration of Palestinians in Gaza; including laundering money from organisations such as the UNRWA that is meant to be sent to Gaza to maintain water supplies and sanitation. In towing the Israeli line through comments such as those above and also through the brutalisation of dissenting voices in the West Bank by US-backed thugs such as Mohammed Dahlan, Fatah and the P.N.A. establishment ensures that they all get very rich and can live comfortable lives and holds off the prospect of them being consigned to the ash heap of history.

The fact that it's somehow acceptable to describe the Hamas government in Gaza as a 'coup' says absolutely everything about the Jerusalem Post, about Azzam al-Ahmad, about the leadership of Fatah and about the direction of the Palestinian Authority. All four clearly have about as much interest in historical veracity as yourself and Khibs (we never did get any explanation as to how Hamas 'occupies the Gaza Strip'). It was Fatah, armed to the teeth with state of the art Israeli and American weaponry; their pockets filled to bursting with dollars and shekels, who carried out an unsuccesful putsch in Gaza. Hundreds of Fatah militants were sent through checkpoints by the I.D.F. in order to unseat a democratically elected government and they accuse Hamas of a coup? ****ing hell, no wonder Palestinians consistently show overwhelming support for Hamas. And relatedly, no wonder the P.N.A. behaves in the way it does. Knowing that to engage properly with Hamas and other militant elements would necessitate elections in the not to distant future. Elections where, undoutedly, Fatah would be routed both Parliamentary and Presidentially - probably to oblivion, never to be seen again.

I realise you've taken to not responding to anything I write these days but you can't just make a claim that there is a 'Hamas blockade on Gaza along with the Israeli and Egyptian one'. What does that mean? What evidence do you have to support such a claim? What housing? Enormous amounts of housing was destroyed in the 08/09 slaughter in Gaza and Israel refuses to let the materials needed to rebuild in to the Strip. What jobs? There is no proper economy in Gaza; one of the major ironies of the siege (which was intended to weaken Hamas as well as to continue the ethnic cleansing policy of making life so unbearable that Palestinians will up sticks and leave without the right to return) is that it has strengthened Hamas enormously as they are the only institution in the Strip that is capable of giving employment to large numbers of people - in the security services, as civil servants and in the black market tunnel 'industry'. So if you mean that people who dislike Hamas and therefore won't apply for jobs with Hamas do not get employed by Hamas and are therefore 'at the back of the queue' then yes, but that's a pretty bizarre criticism.

You'd think that someone, anyone within the upper echelons of the P.N.A. would have make the connection between the past U.S./Israeli support for Hamas in order to help them smash a then powerful Fatah and the current U.S./Israeli support for Fatah in order to help them smash a now powerful Hamas. You'd think they'd realise that this has been happening for decades; play different groups against each other, delay and reject whilst blaming the Palestinians for the delays and rejections and in the mean time get to work building 'facts on the ground'.

The sophistry involved in framing the situation as not being 'rosy' because of Hamas is incredible, but it's even more incredible that you're willing to turn a blind eye to a project which leaves 60% of the Gaza population unemployed, 80% of them reliant on UNRWA just to be able to feed themselves, nearly 50% of Gazan children (who make up 65% of the entire poulation) suffering from anemia, people unable to access basic medical supplies and people with serious injuries and diseases unable to get to hospitals outside of Gaza. I mean, I know that they're not really human beings to you, as you regularly evince, but do you not have even a degree of empathy? Or would you rather keep looking for excuses? First everyone's perfectly alright in Gaza, then it might not be 'rosy' but that's the fault of Hamas rather than the force instituting an illegal and immoral blockade. Amazing.

[(((Fergus)))]

Here's some more data I've found, from the CIA World Factbook (Great Satan, right enough):


Egypt: Pop’n Growth Rate 1.642% (21.7 births / 1,000; 5.08 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 27.26 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 72.12 years.

Lebanon: Pop’n Growth Rate 1.107% (17.1 births / 1,000; 6.03 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 21.82 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 73.66 years.

Syria: Pop’n Growth Rate 2.129% (25.9 births / 1,000; 4.61 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 25.87 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 71.19 years.

Iran: Pop’n Growth Rate 0.883% (17.17 births / 1,000; 5.72 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 35.78 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 71.14 years.

Gaza Strip: Pop’n Growth Rate 3.349% (36.93 births / 1,000; 3.44 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 18.35 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 73.42 years.

West Bank: Pop’n Growth Rate 2.178% (25.44 births / 1,000; 3.66 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 15.96 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 74.54 years.

With the exception of Lebanon, life expectancy for the average resident of Gaza is higher than any of the local Arab (and Persian) areas except for the West Bank (which has greater access to Israeli hospitals since - apparently, although I haven't verified this - Hamas stops many more sick Palestinians from crossing the border than Fatah does). Again, thanks to greater medical care and knowledge from Israel, infant mortality is significantly better in both Gaza and the West Bank, too. And deaths per 1,000 population is lower. According to the SNP - and it seems to be correct - life expectancy in Gaza is higher than it is in Glasgow East. (Not surprised tbh.)

As I said, the data is from the CIA Factbook, maybe there is a better source, although Channel 4's FactCheck use it as their reference. It is also cited in many/most Wikipedia articles on demographics.

Not from Gaza, but here is an example of how Arabs from Judea and Samaria receive treatment in Israeli hospitals:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Israel+beyond+politics/Emek_Hospital_saves_Palestinian_boy_Jenin_6-Jun-2010.htm

They don't grab the headlines, obviously, however stories such as this go on all the time and I at least find them encouraging.

[khib70]

Here's some more data I've found, from the CIA World Factbook (Great Satan, right enough):


Egypt: Pop’n Growth Rate 1.642% (21.7 births / 1,000; 5.08 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 27.26 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 72.12 years.

Lebanon: Pop’n Growth Rate 1.107% (17.1 births / 1,000; 6.03 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 21.82 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 73.66 years.

Syria: Pop’n Growth Rate 2.129% (25.9 births / 1,000; 4.61 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 25.87 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 71.19 years.

Iran: Pop’n Growth Rate 0.883% (17.17 births / 1,000; 5.72 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 35.78 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 71.14 years.

Gaza Strip: Pop’n Growth Rate 3.349% (36.93 births / 1,000; 3.44 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 18.35 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 73.42 years.

West Bank: Pop’n Growth Rate 2.178% (25.44 births / 1,000; 3.66 deaths / 1,000); Infant mortality rate: 15.96 / 1,000; Life Expectancy: 74.54 years.

With the exception of Lebanon, life expectancy for the average resident of Gaza is higher than any of the local Arab (and Persian) areas except for the West Bank (which has greater access to Israeli hospitals since - apparently, although I haven't verified this - Hamas stops many more sick Palestinians from crossing the border than Fatah does). Again, thanks to greater medical care and knowledge from Israel, infant mortality is significantly better in both Gaza and the West Bank, too. And deaths per 1,000 population is lower. According to the SNP - and it seems to be correct - life expectancy in Gaza is higher than it is in Glasgow East. (Not surprised tbh.)

As I said, the data is from the CIA Factbook, maybe there is a better source, although Channel 4's FactCheck use it as their reference. It is also cited in many/most Wikipedia articles on demographics.

Not from Gaza, but here is an example of how Arabs from Judea and Samaria receive treatment in Israeli hospitals:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Israel+beyond+politics/Emek_Hospital_saves_Palestinian_boy_Jenin_6-Jun-2010.htm

They don't grab the headlines, obviously, however stories such as this go on all the time and I at least find them encouraging.
Interesting figures, if inconvenient for some.

And this is about Gaza:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137709

[LiverpoolHibs]

Interesting figures, if inconvenient for some.

The only people I can think this could be inconvenient for is Israel, the U.S. and anyone else who supports the blockade of Gaza as a means of attempting to vitiate support for Hamas; do you think people who are supportive of Palestinian rights want to see the Palestinian people suffering as if it somehow brings greater justification to their position? You think it's 'inconvenient' for us that there aren't thousands of Palestinians dying in the streets? How utterly sickening.

I can only speak for myself, but I was perfectly well aware of the figures Fergus quotes. But it has got absolutely nothing to do with the humanity of the Israeli siege; it's just testament to the organisation and strength of Palestinian civil society in Gaza (along with the help of various aid agencies) that it can hold things together in the face of an inhumane siege that results in Gaza having more people living below the poverty line (as a % of the entire population) than any other nation on earth. Fergus can check his CIA factbook on that one if he wishes...

It's also important, as suggested in the first para., in terms of gaining an understanding of why the blockade has - if anything - strengthened the position of Hamas in the Strip. Hamas has come to model itself on Hezbollah in the last few years - organising not only as a military and political movement but also as a movement for social welfare and provision. Putting quite large sums of money into Gazan society which has, to a relatively small extent, attenuated the effects of the siege.


And this is about Gaza:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/news.aspx/137709

Ah yes, Arutz Sheva. Probably the most hard-right media company in the whole of Israel (which is saying something), a delightful bunch to be referencing. You seriously need to actually engage some critical faculties over this sort of thing, they seem to completely disappear when it comes to anything to do with Israel. That article is just a bizarre concoction of bare-faced lies. The sort of weird press-release that used to come out of the Soviet Union and was believed by deranged Stalinists while everyone else with an ounce of sense found it hilarious.

Do you think it's more sensible to take the word of an extreme-right Israeli newspaper which can only justify its stance through statements from the Israeli Foreign Ministry or the word of organisations such as the ICRC, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the World Health Organisation? See, if you don't believe everything you read in ultra-nationalist Israeli papers and rely instead on impartial international organisations you tend to be able to quote things such as;

The Gaza Strip has been the setting of a protracted political and socio‐economic crisis. Recent events have resulted in a severe deterioration of the already precarious living conditions of the people in Gaza and have further eroded a weakened health system.

The closure of Gaza since mid‐2007 and the last Israeli military strike between 27 December 2008 and 18 January 2009 have led to on‐going deterioration in the social, economic and environmental determinants of health.

Many specialized treatments, for example for complex heart surgery and certain types of cancer, are not available in Gaza and patients are therefore referred for treatment to hospitals outside Gaza. But many patients have had their applications for exit permits denied or delayed by the Israeli Authorities and have missed their appointments. Some have died while waiting for referral.

1103 applications for permits for patients to cross Erez were submitted to the Israeli Authorities in December 2009. 21% had their applications denied or delayed as a result of which they missed their hospital appointments and had to restart the referral procedure.

Which is from the World Health Organisation's report on health in Gaza from January of this year. It also estimates that 88 people have died as a result of delays to permits to get them medical care in Israel or Egypt because hospitals in Gaza cannot treat them. And Israel isn't taking these people out of the goodness of its heart, they are legally obliged to take them. Similarly Israel pays absolutely nothing for the aid which that article crows about it sending to Gaza - and which, again, it is legally obliged to send in. It really is some sort of moral black-hole when allowing the inmates of, what is to all intents and purposes, a concentration camp to eat is considered 'humanitarian'.

Have a read of the report (http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/ochaopt_who_gaza_health_fact_sheet_20100120_englis h.pdf), and then maybe reconsider posting such unalloyed bollocks in the future.

N.B. Just in case anyone was wondering; when Fergus says, "Arabs from Judea and Samaria", he means Palestinians from the Occupied West Bank. At least that's what people say when they don't want to deny the existence of a people as a means to legitimise a political project predicated on ethnic cleansing.

[Twa Cairpets]

There's been any number of posts and threads about Israel/Gaza/Palestine etc, and they've been interesting reading. I don't have a particular position, as it seems to be that there is blame on both sides of the debate.

Given what appear to be very entrenched position on both sides, what, in simplistic terms, does either side see as an ultimate succesful outcome? I'm not talking about supposition about what the other side may want as the outcome, but what you (as a protagonist for Israel / Gaza) would deem an acceptable position to be in in say, ten years time?

i dont want to read justification, polemic or diatribe, just a statement of what "your side" want to achieve

[(((Fergus)))]

Here's a piece I found interesting about Gaza gearing up for the world cup. The article referenced is from Palestine Today, the news service of Palestinian Islamic Jihad http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-82612.html. It not only offers an insight into everyday life (priorities) in Gaza, it is highly indicative of the public attitude of Arabs towards Israel.


Gazans are scrambling to find ways that they can watch the World Cup. Al Jazeera is scrambling its World Cup signal and requires that viewers pay for the right to watch it. It is unclear from the article whether Gazans are unable or unwilling to pay, so they are trying alternative means to receive the games.

Some are building TV antennas to pick up signals from pirate TV stations in the West Bank who are trying to get around AL Jazeera's monopoly. Others are trying to descramble the Al Jazeera signal to watch for free. (Al Jazeera announced that some of the games would be broadcast for free.)

The article then mentions that "the occupying power" is providing World Cup coverage in Arabic for free, alongside its Hebrew coverage. It is hiring senior Arab sports analysts for these broadcasts.

But rather than showing appreciation for this move, the article says that this is being done to steal Arab viewers away from the Al Jazeera coverage!

[...] Arabs might privately appreciate and respect what Israel does, but the culture is set up so that it is inconceivable that this private appreciation will ever translate into the public sphere.

[Twa Cairpets]

Here's a piece I found interesting about Gaza gearing up for the world cup. The article referenced is from Palestine Today, the news service of Palestinian Islamic Jihad http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-82612.html. It not only offers an insight into everyday life (priorities) in Gaza, it is highly indicative of the public attitude of Arabs towards Israel.

This is a new level of pettiness. what point are you trying to make? People in Gaza want to watch the world cup therefore its not all bad because theyre not investing every ounce of energy into scavenging for food?

[LiverpoolHibs]

There's been any number of posts and threads about Israel/Gaza/Palestine etc, and they've been interesting reading. I don't have a particular position, as it seems to be that there is blame on both sides of the debate.

Given what appear to be very entrenched position on both sides, what, in simplistic terms, does either side see as an ultimate succesful outcome? I'm not talking about supposition about what the other side may want as the outcome, but what you (as a protagonist for Israel / Gaza) would deem an acceptable position to be in in say, ten years time?

i dont want to read justification, polemic or diatribe, just a statement of what "your side" want to achieve

Firstly, I don't really have a 'side' in ethnic, religious or national terms. I just attempt to apply universalist moral and political principles universally - so where there's a denial of certain rights that I believe should be universal, I think it's necessary for people to oppose that. It's also nothing to do with having an 'entrenched' view.

So on those grounds, and as I've stated before, I believe the most equitable solution for everyone now living in Palestine/Eretz Israel would be a single binational state with full political, civil, and religious rights for Arabs and Jews alike - including the right of return for Palestinian refugees. Not only do I think it the most equitable solution but also the only reasonable one regardless of how outlandish some people seem to view it - for whatever reason. The 'facts on the ground' (Israeli settlements and Israeli-only roads in the West Bank and East Jerusalem etc.) long since rendered a viable Palestinian state along-side an Israeli state an utter impossibility.

The only alternative to the binational solution, therefore, is a slight alteration of the status quo in which the West Bank and Gaza (though certainly not East Jerusalem) become what Ilan Pappe calls 'stateless states'. Effectively mirroring the apartheid South African bantustan model. I don't think this is an acceptable alternative.

To achieve what, as far as I can see, is the only proper solution, Israel needs to acknowledge that a campaign of ethnic cleansing - carried out against the native population of Palestine - was necessary for it to establish itself as a State and then to do whatever is necessary to implement U.N. Resolution 194. Then moves can be made towards a binational state.

As I've stated before, this is a very straight-forward, uncomplicated conflict.

[LiverpoolHibs]

Here's a piece I found interesting about Gaza gearing up for the world cup. The article referenced is from Palestine Today, the news service of Palestinian Islamic Jihad http://www.paltoday.ps/arabic/News-82612.html. It not only offers an insight into everyday life (priorities) in Gaza, it is highly indicative of the public attitude of Arabs towards Israel.

Where is the bit you've quoted from?

[(((Fergus)))]

There's been any number of posts and threads about Israel/Gaza/Palestine etc, and they've been interesting reading. I don't have a particular position, as it seems to be that there is blame on both sides of the debate.

Given what appear to be very entrenched position on both sides, what, in simplistic terms, does either side see as an ultimate succesful outcome? I'm not talking about supposition about what the other side may want as the outcome, but what you (as a protagonist for Israel / Gaza) would deem an acceptable position to be in in say, ten years time?

i dont want to read justification, polemic or diatribe, just a statement of what "your side" want to achieve

The successful outcome for Israel is for Israel to continue to exist.

The successful outcome for the Palestinian Arab leadership and a certain proportion of the population is for Israel not to exist. There can be no Jewish sovereignty in any part of the historic Jewish homeland.

Israel has a large minority of Arabs living within its borders, who are equal before the law other than the fact the military service is voluntary only. (Yes, there is some discrimination however even this is far less than that encountered by Palestinian Arabs in, say, Lebanon.) There are no Jews living within the PA controlled areas of Judea/Samaria or in Gaza. Selling property to Jews within PA territory is punishable by death.

Israel is willing to share and in fact does share sovereignty of what was previous the western part of Mandate Palestine (the eastern part being Jordan, ruled by a non-Palestinian elite). The Palestinian Arab leadership are unwilling to share sovereignty with the Jews.

For that reason, the conflict will IMO continue as it has always done.

Here's an explicit statement on this point from Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtQsmADUgc

And here's an equally explicit statement (in Arabic - often different from the English pronouncements) from the supposedly moderate leader of the PA, Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen):


Transcript from official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida:

"'We don't accept the statement [of Hamas]: a [Palestinian] state of resistance and refusal. What we hear from everyone is that the basis is negotiations, at a time that the entire world agrees about this, despite the absence of other options, we either have negotiations or no negotiations, what has put Israel in the corner.

We are unable to confront Israel militarily, and this point was discussed at the Arab League Summit in March in Sirt (Libya). There I turned to the Arab States and I said: 'If you want war, and if all of you will fight Israel, we are in favor. But the Palestinians will not fight alone because they don't have the ability to do it.' He [Abbas] said: 'The West Bank was completely destroyed and we will not agree that it will be destroyed again,' in addition to 'the inability to confront Israel militarily.'"
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (Fatah), July 6, 2010

As someone once said: If the Arabs put down their weapons, there will be no more war. If the Israelis put down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.


This is a new level of pettiness. what point are you trying to make? People in Gaza want to watch the world cup therefore its not all bad because theyre not investing every ounce of energy into scavenging for food?

If you don't understand a point, just ask. There's no need to be rude.

The article is an example of how, at least in public Arab discourse (private can be a very different matter), Israel can do nothing right. Even when they were laying on free-to-air WC broadcasting with Arab commentators and pundits this was interpreted as an attempt to "steal viewers" away from al-Jazeera - a typical example of Arab projection since it was actually the Gazans among others who were stealing from al-Jazeera by illegally unscrambling their PPV broadcasts.

It was posted as a topical example illustrating the general Arab mindset towards Israel and Jews. Throughout the Arab media Jews are portrayed as evil, therefore everything they do must be evil too - even if it's not immediately obvious. Examples such as this appear every day.



While I'm on the subject, here are a few other recent glimpses of life inside Gaza:

Here's a recent public service broadcast by the Hamas government on the amnesty for collaborators (now passed):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XX9d3MbY1Q
(gives you an insight into their culture and values)

A France 24 report on Gaza after the easing of the blockade on civilian goods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3smJH8jb6M

And finally, this Saturday saw the opening of a new luxury mall selling "food, clothing, perfumes, shoes, household appliances, office supplies and more":
http://www.gazamall.ps/index.php?goTo=showPage&id=61

Here are some photosets from the Pal Times:
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=501
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=502
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=503

Of course, not all Gazans have the money to shop in these malls however the point is that some clearly do. A lot of people in both Gaza and the PA have a lot of EU money burning holes in their pockets.

[khib70]

The successful outcome for Israel is for Israel to continue to exist.

The successful outcome for the Palestinian Arab leadership and a certain proportion of the population is for Israel not to exist. There can be no Jewish sovereignty in any part of the historic Jewish homeland.

Israel has a large minority of Arabs living within its borders, who are equal before the law other than the fact the military service is voluntary only. (Yes, there is some discrimination however even this is far less than that encountered by Palestinian Arabs in, say, Lebanon.) There are no Jews living within the PA controlled areas of Judea/Samaria or in Gaza. Selling property to Jews within PA territory is punishable by death.

Israel is willing to share and in fact does share sovereignty of what was previous the western part of Mandate Palestine (the eastern part being Jordan, ruled by a non-Palestinian elite). The Palestinian Arab leadership are unwilling to share sovereignty with the Jews.

For that reason, the conflict will IMO continue as it has always done.

Here's an explicit statement on this point from Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtQsmADUgc

And here's an equally explicit statement (in Arabic - often different from the English pronouncements) from the supposedly moderate leader of the PA, Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen):



As someone once said: If the Arabs put down their weapons, there will be no more war. If the Israelis put down their weapons, there will be no more Israel.



If you don't understand a point, just ask. There's no need to be rude.

The article is an example of how, at least in public Arab discourse (private can be a very different matter), Israel can do nothing right. Even when they were laying on free-to-air WC broadcasting with Arab commentators and pundits this was interpreted as an attempt to "steal viewers" away from al-Jazeera - a typical example of Arab projection since it was actually the Gazans among others who were stealing from al-Jazeera by illegally unscrambling their PPV broadcasts.

It was posted as a topical example illustrating the general Arab mindset towards Israel and Jews. Throughout the Arab media Jews are portrayed as evil, therefore everything they do must be evil too - even if it's not immediately obvious. Examples such as this appear every day.



While I'm on the subject, here are a few other recent glimpses of life inside Gaza:

Here's a recent public service broadcast by the Hamas government on the amnesty for collaborators (now passed):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XX9d3MbY1Q
(gives you an insight into their culture and values)

A France 24 report on Gaza after the easing of the blockade on civilian goods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3smJH8jb6M

And finally, this Saturday saw the opening of a new luxury mall selling "food, clothing, perfumes, shoes, household appliances, office supplies and more":
http://www.gazamall.ps/index.php?goTo=showPage&id=61

Here are some photosets from the Pal Times:
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=501
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=502
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=503

Of course, not all Gazans have the money to shop in these malls however the point is that some clearly do. A lot of people in both Gaza and the PA have a lot of EU money burning holes in their pockets.
A good answer to a fair and important question, especially the bits in bold.

You say, absolutely correctly, that the elimination of any Jewish presence in the Middle East is a preoccupation of "the Palestinian Arab leadership and a certain proportion of the population". This is undoubtedly true, notably of the Hamas leadership who are basically doing the bidding of their Iranian paymasters.

It is also true that for Israel there is a satisfactory resolution which does not involve the elimination of an Arab presence in the region. The Arab minority within Israel can maintain full citizenship rights, and a Palestinian state can operate in the West Bank and Gaza, provided it's not used as a base for Iranian-sponsored terrorist attacks against Jews.

For Hamas at least, a satisfactory outcome does not involve co-existence. But that is because theirs is essentially an Iranian Islamist agenda, not a Palestinian agenda.

Where I think you move on to shakier ground is talking of a "general Arab mindset", since it rather contradicts your first paragraph about "a certain proportion of the population". The Arab race is really too large and diverse to generalise in this way. The majority of Arabs are not in my limited experience, violently anti-Jewish. Extreme attitudes like this tend to originate from the likes of the unrepresentative Baathist dictatorship in Syria, or the equally unrepresentative theocracy in Iran. And the Iranian mullahs and their stooges aren't Arabs at all.

Undoubtedly, what we hear about Gaza is mainly what Hamas want us to hear. However, I don't think arguments about the alleged prosperity of the Gazan population are particularly helpful. It's more instructive to consider who is actually responsible for the situation of Palestinians in Gaza. The Palestinian and Egyptian smugglers who run the tunnel complex like the Mafia and make millions out of it and those in the leadership who trouser the EU money have to bear major responsiblitly. Those who turned it into an armed camp, a missile base and terrorist training centre have a lot to answer for too. I suspect the new shopping mall will be very handy for the tunnel-owning elite, and the Hamas leadership, but way out of the reach of ordinary Gazans.

[RyeSloan]

Of course, not all Gazans have the money to shop in these malls however the point is that some clearly do. A lot of people in both Gaza and the PA have a lot of EU money burning holes in their pockets.

Fergus, some resonable points on the wider issue there but I'm still a bit disturbed by you seemingly trying to continually evidence that life in Gaza is actually not so bad.

The fact is that most people that will have the money to spend in this mall (or whatever it is, my arabic is not so good so the website was hardly enlightening!) are most probably people making money from the blockade.

Israel has strangled legitamate business in Gaza and handed control over the substantial black market they have created to Hamas. Exports from Gaza are still pretty much banned so it is still impossible for their economy to recover to anything like a normal level. When you severely limit the ordianary mans ability to trade and create a situation where the vast majority of goods are controlled by exactly the people you are trying to get the most (see Iran and the revolutionary guard for an even bigger and better example!!) then to attempt to continue to portray that life is actually reasonably normal is disingenuous at best.

[hibsbollah]

If you don't understand a point, just ask. There's no need to be rude.


Twocarpets was spot on in his sarcasm, and I suspect he understands your 'point' perfectly well. Your analysis of the situation these days doesnt get much more sophisticated than 'Gazans get to watch TV' or 'they have never been very good at making money' or 'someone is building a shopping mall there'. Its all mind-numbingly irrelevant.

I asked you before about your definition of 'arab' at least twice on another thread. Without an answer to this I have to conclude that you either don't know, or the definition is so broad (like, say, the colour of their skin?) that it isnt worthwhile even defining, and is just reflective of your prejudices.

[Betty Boop]

'To Shoot an Elephant'

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25972.htm

[Twa Cairpets]

If you don't understand a point, just ask. There's no need to be rude.

The article is an example of how, at least in public Arab discourse (private can be a very different matter), Israel can do nothing right. Even when they were laying on free-to-air WC broadcasting with Arab commentators and pundits this was interpreted as an attempt to "steal viewers" away from al-Jazeera - a typical example of Arab projection since it was actually the Gazans among others who were stealing from al-Jazeera by illegally unscrambling their PPV broadcasts.

It was posted as a topical example illustrating the general Arab mindset towards Israel and Jews. Throughout the Arab media Jews are portrayed as evil, therefore everything they do must be evil too - even if it's not immediately obvious. Examples such as this appear every day.



While I'm on the subject, here are a few other recent glimpses of life inside Gaza:

Here's a recent public service broadcast by the Hamas government on the amnesty for collaborators (now passed):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XX9d3MbY1Q
(gives you an insight into their culture and values)

A France 24 report on Gaza after the easing of the blockade on civilian goods:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3smJH8jb6M

And finally, this Saturday saw the opening of a new luxury mall selling "food, clothing, perfumes, shoes, household appliances, office supplies and more":
http://www.gazamall.ps/index.php?goTo=showPage&id=61

Here are some photosets from the Pal Times:
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=501
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=502
http://paltimes.net/arabic/photos.php?album=503

Of course, not all Gazans have the money to shop in these malls however the point is that some clearly do. A lot of people in both Gaza and the PA have a lot of EU money burning holes in their pockets.

I wasnt being rude in the slightest, and I did understand the point you are making perfectly. Youve gone on to make it again, and it is still petty. Because a society, in whatever stage of conflict, has people at the upper end of the social scale does not make it less of an embattled place.

I also love that you give Palestinians a hard time for ad hominem attackes on Israel, and then you use the same logical fallacy to defend your position. "Theyve got luxuries so they cant be poor". Priceless.

[khib70]

'To Shoot an Elephant'

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25972.htm
Yes, very informative:yawn: Same old stuff. But the comments on the end of it are kind of revealing about the kind of people logging on to informationclearinghouse these days. Especially like the knuckledragger who rants about "stupid ******* Jews" in capitals, and the creep who says the Jews have "brought upon themselves whatever they have got".

Maybe you should read the comments before linking to this hotbed of neo-Nazism?

[Betty Boop]

Yes, very informative:yawn: Same old stuff. But the comments on the end of it are kind of revealing about the kind of people logging on to informationclearinghouse these days. Especially like the knuckledragger who rants about "stupid ******* Jews" in capitals, and the creep who says the Jews have "brought upon themselves whatever they have got".

Maybe you should read the comments before linking to this hotbed of neo-Nazism?

Hardly ! Who appointed you the posting policeman anyway ? I don't think you can lecture any one, when you post links to Islamophobic sites such as Palwatch.

[khib70]

Hardly ! Who appointed you the posting policeman anyway ? I don't think you can lecture any one, when you post links to Islamophobic sites such as Palwatch.
I think the quoted comments speak for themselves. And there's nothing "Islamophobic" about Palwatch. It may be embarrasing to some people to have the racism and violent rhetoric employed by some members of the Palestinian "resistance" exposed - but to describe a site dedicated to exposing anti-semitism Islamophobic is really pushing it IMO.

[Betty Boop]

I think the quoted comments speak for themselves. And there's nothing "Islamophobic" about Palwatch. It may be embarrasing to some people to have the racism and violent rhetoric employed by some members of the Palestinian "resistance" exposed - but to describe a site dedicated to exposing anti-semitism Islamophobic is really pushing it IMO.

I wonder if you feel the same about Jewwatch ? I doubt it somehow.

[khib70]

I wonder if you feel the same about Jewwatch ? I doubt it somehow.
You're damn right I don't. Mainly because JW is just another example of the racism which Palwatch was set up to expose. I suspect there's a few people amongst Hamas who find it absolutely wonderful.

To compare the two is just plain ridiculous.

And I notice that informationclearinghouse has made no attempt to remove the Nazi comments from the article you linked to:cool2:

[(((Fergus)))]

Sorry to drag this old dog back up again but I just read what is IMO an excellent synthesis of the misrepresentation of Gaza in the mainstream media.

Hungry or not? Mainstream media's hypocrisy on Gaza

The mainstream media and NGOs were the the main purveyors of the myth of Gaza was suffering form a humanitarian crisis - a myth that goes back to the early 90s (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2007/12/humanitarian-crisis-meme-since-1993.html) at the very least.

Since the Gaza Mall opened, we have seen on a few occasions the people who have made a living talking about how miserable life is in Gaza take a step back and re-frame their arguments. They cannot deny the truth, but they don't want to retroactively look like liars - which is what they effectively have been for nearly two decades.

So, one by one, they are reframing the Gaza meme to try to save face and make sure that people still blame Israel for Gaza's problems.

Gaza is still miserable, these newly-sophisticated and nuanced journalists are saying, but it is not because the Gazans are hungry, or poverty-stricken, or cannot get basic items. Forget all those thousands of articles over the years that we wrote, forget us uncritically quoting Jimmy Carter about how Gazans are "literally starving (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2009/06/jimmy-carters-truth-versus-reality.html)" or being "starved to death (http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3533297,00.html)." No, the problems with Gaza are not so much physical but a state of mind, you see.

Previously (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/08/recalibrating-humanitarian-crisis-in.html), we mentioned Slate's backtracking (http://www.slate.com/id/2262805), admitting that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza and no hunger. Instead, Slate quotes an official, it is a "crisis of dignity."

Oh, I see. So how does Gazans' dignity stack up against, say, that of poor Egyptians or Yemenis or even Saudi Arabia's lower class? We don't know, and we won't know, because reporters much prefer to hang out in Gaza where they can visit the Roots restaurant (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/05/open-air-prisons-luxury-restaurant.html) than to go to poor Arab villages in other parts of the world.

Time magazine's reframing of Gaza (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2010064,00.html) sounded like this:


Gaza's residents will concede that there is no hunger crisis in the Strip. Residents do love the beach, and the store shelves are stocked. But if you're focused on starvation, they say, you're probably missing the point. To them, the word prison speaks more to the effect that years of conflict and political and economic isolation have had on the Gaza psyche. "We are talking about continuous stress and ongoing trauma," says Hasan Zeyada, a psychologist at the Gaza Community Mental Health Program (GCMHP), the territory's main psychological treatment and research NGO. "It's not one incident, but all of the time. We are at a continuous level of high stress and human-rights violations and traumas through Israeli invasions and war."


Oh, so we are missing the point if we focused on starvation? Then why did Time magazine's Gaza correspondent write, in 2008 (http://mideast.blogs.time.com/2008/11/26/on-thanksgiving-not-much-to-give-thanks-for-in-gaza), "As you sit down to a Thanksgiving feast, please spare a thought for the starving Palestinians of Gaza. There are 1.5 million of them, most of them living hand to mouth, or on UN handouts, because Israel has them under siege."

Now, the latest to join the hypocrites is Ethan Bronner of the New York Times. Two years ago (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/world/middleeast/29mideast.html?scp=14&sq=gaza+%22humanitarian+crisis%22&st=nyt) he didn't hesitate to state as a fact:


Militants have tried to infiltrate the border crossing into Israel five times in recent weeks. That has led Israel to keep the border closed more often, further reducing supplies and worsening the already severe humanitarian crisis there.


No nuance there, Gazans were in a "crisis," the exact same way one would describe sub-Saharan Africa or parts of Bangladesh.

Now, however, Bronner has caught onto the new Gaza meme, talking about the Gaza mall:


To the commentators who have never been here, certain points need to be cleared up. To those who contend the mall is proof that Gaza has construction materials: the building is 20 years old. To those who have described the mall as “gigantic” and “futuristic”: it is small and a bit old-fashioned. To Danny Ayalon, Israel’s deputy foreign minister, who wrote that the mall “would not look out of place in any capital in Europe”: it would.

But the broader point many of these advocates are making — that the poverty of Gaza is often misconstrued, willfully or inadvertently — is correct. The despair here is not that of Haiti or Somalia. It is a misery of dependence, immobility and hopelessness, not of grinding want. The flotilla movement is not about material aid; it is about Palestinian freedom and defiance of Israeli power.


On at least 14 occasions (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?frow=0&n=10&srcht=a&query=gaza+%22aid+ship%22&srchst=nyt&submit.x=11&submit.y=13&submit=sub&hdlquery=&bylquery=&daterange=period&mon1=01&day1=01&year1=1981&mon2=12&day2=23&year2=2010) the New York Times described the ships that try to sail to Gaza as "aid ships."

Bronner is not only trying to willfully change the Gaza meme, but in the paragraph above he is showing his own support for the illegal breaking of a legal blockade. He is not quoting a Free Gaza official as to the purpose of the ships, he is stating their purpose from his own perspective - "Palestinian freedom and defiance of Israeli power." He is all but publicly admiring their aims and goals.

However, the fact is that both the media and the anti-Israel activists have used the "starvation" meme as a convenient fiction to focus the world on demonizing Israel. Their current re-framing to change it instead to "dependence, immobility and hopelessness" is nothing more than an attempt to not look like fools and not admit that they have been lying to the world for years.

If they cared about Palestinian Arab "hopelessness" they would be spending much more time in Egypt (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/08/1978-event-that-turned-egypt-against.html), Jordan (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/08/gazans-who-are-in-open-air-prison-in.html), Lebanon (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/08/reuters-lies-on-lebanese-palestinians.html)and Syria. They would be interviewing Mahmoud Abbas about why he has yet to dismantle a single "refugee" camp in the West Bank - all of which are under Palestinian Arab control.

No, these hypocritical reporters are not interested in revealing truths about how Gazans live. They have been dining in fine restaurants in Gaza and staying in fancy hotels (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/05/horrid-accommodations-for-flotilla.html) - they knew the truth for years. They are equally not interested in Palestinian Arab suffering and deprivation - because by any measure, the Arabs in camps in Lebanon envy the Gazans. These hypocrites hammer away at Gaza for years because they want to blame Israel for Gaza's problems, nothing more. They'll occasionally leaven their prodigious Gaza output with an article about Hamas abuses of Gazans, but their focus has been unrelentingly on Israel.

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2010/08/hungry-or-not-mainstream-medias.html

The unraveling of the "humanitarian crisis" meme just shows how deeply the mainstream media has been in bed with NGOs and anti-Israel activists and how easily they parrot false statistics and claims.

Any way you look at it, the media has been lying to you about Gaza for years. Why should you believe them now?

[(((Fergus)))]

Hardly ! Who appointed you the posting policeman anyway ? I don't think you can lecture any one, when you post links to Islamophobic sites such as Palwatch.

All Palwatch does is select and translate Palestinian Arab media, i.e., if the Arabs/muslims are condemned then it is in their own words broadcast without shame on public TV.

[khib70]

All Palwatch does is select and translate Palestinian Arab media, i.e., if the Arabs/muslims are condemned then it is in their own words broadcast without shame on public TV.
Correct. All they have to do is stop saying these things.

Meanwhile, Information Clearing House continues to publish articles exonerating the President of Iran of holocaust denial, and to tolerate blatantly Nazi and anti-Jewish comments on their articles. Whatever its intentions, it attracts some nasty logons.

[Betty Boop]

All Palwatch does is select and translate Palestinian Arab media, i.e., if the Arabs/muslims are condemned then it is in their own words broadcast without shame on public TV.

Looks like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has been condemned by his own words. Tut tut, him being part of the Israeli coalition government as well.

http://insidethemiddleeast.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/30/shas-spiritual-leader-abbas-should-perish/

[khib70]

Looks like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, has been condemned by his own words. Tut tut, him being part of the Israeli coalition government as well.

http://insidethemiddleeast.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/30/shas-spiritual-leader-abbas-should-perish/
Rabbi Yosef is a loony fringe nutter who represents a tiny minority of Israeli public opinion and is regarded as a joke by the vast majority. He's in the government because people voted for him, and Israel is a democracy, unlike most of the nations around it.

Singling him out is like suggesting Nick Griffin is a representative of British public opinion and just shows how desperate Israel's critics are.

The stuff on Palwatch represents mainstream Hamas thinking, not some lunatic fringe. That's the difference.