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qiut
02-06-2010, 08:16 AM
Its started.

Wonder how many Hoolies in kilts or with welch or Irish accebts we will see/hear rampaging round SA.

Same old...same old...if its good its English, if its bad its British codswallop.


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/137775/Police-foil-British-football-hooligan-invasion/


http://business.maktoob.com/20090000475474/Brit_World_Cup_hooligans_stopped_in_Dubai/Article.htm

marinello59
02-06-2010, 08:21 AM
Its started.

Wonder how many Hoolies in kilts or with welch or Irish accebts we will see/hear rampaging round SA.

Same old...same old...if its good its English, if its bad its British codswallop.


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/137775/Police-foil-British-football-hooligan-invasion/


http://business.maktoob.com/20090000475474/Brit_World_Cup_hooligans_stopped_in_Dubai/Article.htm

Are we Scots the most over sensitive souls on the planet? The article makes clear that it refers to followers of England and they do happen to be British. Nothing worth getting worked up over really is it?

H18sry
02-06-2010, 08:26 AM
Are we Scots the most over sensitive souls on the planet? The article makes clear that it refers to followers of England and they do happen to be British. Nothing worth getting worked up over really is it?

Pot and kettle perhaps the yam fuds and us are all from Edinburgh if they run amok on there European trip to Millwall and the papers refer to it as Edinburgh Hooligans would you be happy to be tarred by the same brush as them?

marinello59
02-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Pot and kettle perhaps the yam fuds and us are all from Edinburgh if they run amok on there European trip to Millwall and the papers refer to it as Edinburgh Hooligans would you be happy to be tarred by the same brush as them?

IF that happened then wouldn't any articles also make clear that they were following Hearts? When the Huns ripped up Manchester they were described as Scottish/Glasgow hooligans by various papers. Was anybody in any doubt that it was Rangers supporters responsible?

Any way, I don't care if they get called Edinburgh hooligans, I live in Aberdeen.:greengrin

JohnScott
02-06-2010, 10:07 AM
Are we Scots the most over sensitive souls on the planet? The article makes clear that it refers to followers of England and they do happen to be British. Nothing worth getting worked up over really is it?

Having lived in England for 20 of my 50years I have to say I've not met any Englishmen that know the difference between England/British. To them it means the same thing. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard phrases like "The English Army/Navy". Or indeed calling the UK England (as do the Yanks)

The sad thing is it's not done out of arrogance, it's pure and simple ignorance of their own history. I normally just smile and point out their mistake. As marinello says it's not worth getting worked up about. If your proud to be British and will be supporting England what are you bothered about. If like me your proud to be Scots, what's the fuss about? I work beside 16 English blokes who are well aware I don't want them to win the world cup. They honestly can't understand why but they accept it. If you hear the rubbish they talk about scottish football............well enuff said!

Viva Espana I say :bye:

As a footnote: We were sitting at break talking about the World Cup, when one of my English workmates say's "it must be difficult for mediocre teams like Scotland to qualify for the World Cup now there are so many Eastern European teams in the qualifiers."
The room went quiet and all eyes turned to me, waiting for a reaction. Did you say "mediocre?"
Embarrassed he spluttered "No! I meant middle-ranking"
Although the room fell into fits of laughter I couldn't help wonder if his gaff had been a Freudian slip..

hibeedonald
02-06-2010, 10:58 AM
Having lived in England for 20 of my 50years I have to say I've not met any Englishmen that know the difference between England/British. To them it means the same thing. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard phrases like "The English Army/Navy". Or indeed calling the UK England (as do the Yanks)

The sad thing is it's not done out of arrogance, it's pure and simple ignorance of their own history. I normally just smile and point out their mistake. As marinello says it's not worth getting worked up about. If your proud to be British and will be supporting England what are you bothered about. If like me your proud to be Scots, what's the fuss about? I work beside 16 English blokes who are well aware I don't want them to win the world cup. They honestly can't understand why but they accept it. If you hear the rubbish they talk about scottish football............well enuff said!

Viva Espana I say :bye:

As a footnote: We were sitting at break talking about the World Cup, when one of my English workmates say's "it must be difficult for mediocre teams like Scotland to qualify for the World Cup now there are so many Eastern European teams in the qualifiers."
The room went quiet and all eyes turned to me, waiting for a reaction. Did you say "mediocre?"
Embarrassed he spluttered "No! I meant middle-ranking"
Although the room fell into fits of laughter I couldn't help wonder if his gaff had been a Freudian slip..

my mate used to live in south africa, he says people don't realise how bad it actually is, he also thinks any england fans who go to cause trouble are likely to end up dead. walking to the shop, hees had a gun pointed at him, and had to hand is mobile phone over. This was so normal most people in the street didnt react, the other guy jogged off and that was that, and he was 14 at the time.

Jones28
02-06-2010, 04:20 PM
I think a lot of English supporters are going to be shocked by the hard reality of SA.
Having been 6 times, I still never get over taxi drivers with baseball bats or (in one case) a sawn-off shotgun sliding from under his seat when braking at a set of lights.

Hooligans who cause trouble for South African people WILL end up in a lot of pain or dead :agree:

Phil D. Rolls
02-06-2010, 04:25 PM
As a footnote: We were sitting at break talking about the World Cup, when one of my English workmates say's "it must be difficult for mediocre teams like Scotland to qualify for the World Cup now there are so many Eastern European teams in the qualifiers."
The room went quiet and all eyes turned to me, waiting for a reaction. Did you say "mediocre?"
Embarrassed he spluttered "No! I meant middle-ranking"
Although the room fell into fits of laughter I couldn't help wonder if his gaff had been a Freudian slip..

We can only aspire to mediocrity. Am I right in saying though, that England have been in fewer finals than any of the other big boys (Germany, Italy, Spain, France). And that a mediocre (sorry medium sized) nation like Holland has also achieved more.

When it comes to mediocrity, England wrote the book.

Spike Mandela
02-06-2010, 04:29 PM
Are we Scots the most over sensitive souls on the planet? The article makes clear that it refers to followers of England and they do happen to be British. Nothing worth getting worked up over really is it?


Yes you are correct but it's a matter of attention to detail in the headline.

Following your logic they could have been called European hooligans or World hooligans or indeed Earth based hooligans and all would technically have been correct. However the accurate headline should have said ENGLISH hooligans.

We are not being sensitive. It is either lazy or ignorant journalism.

marinello59
02-06-2010, 05:04 PM
Yes you are correct but it's a matter of attention to detail in the headline.

Following your logic they could have been called European hooligans or World hooligans or indeed Earth based hooligans and all would technically have been correct. However the accurate headline should have said ENGLISH hooligans.

We are not being sensitive. It is either lazy or ignorant journalism.

So are we only Scots when we are happy with the media reporting of events but become British when we are outraged? :devil:

Spike Mandela
02-06-2010, 05:29 PM
So are we only Scots when we are happy with the media reporting of events but become British when we are outraged? :devil:

I am Scottish but can also be described as British, European, Global and indeed an Earthling.

Thankfully in no way can I be described as English unless it's the Daily Star of course!!:devil:

weecounty hibby
02-06-2010, 05:32 PM
I am Scottish but can also be described as British, European, Global and indeed an Earthling.

Thankfully in no way can I be described as English unless it's the Daily Star of course!!:devil:

Really???

Spike Mandela
02-06-2010, 05:34 PM
Really???

Forgot you were a Star Wars fan.

Mixu62
03-06-2010, 12:47 AM
I think a lot of English supporters are going to be shocked by the hard reality of SA.
Having been 6 times, I still never get over taxi drivers with baseball bats or (in one case) a sawn-off shotgun sliding from under his seat when braking at a set of lights.

Hooligans who cause trouble for South African people WILL end up in a lot of pain or dead :agree:

Indeed. I haven't been but there's plenty of Saff's in Auckland and I'm led to believe the cops do not muck about there. They've handled riots involving thousands of impoverished angry people so I hardly think a couple of hundred bone-heads from Essex are going to worry them much. It'll just be a nice but of target practice for them.

Wembley67
03-06-2010, 06:14 AM
when did english fans last cause serious trouble abroad??

Sandy
03-06-2010, 06:46 AM
So are we only Scots when we are happy with the media reporting of events but become British when we are outraged? :devil:

Nope mate, I will only ever be a Scot, even if I pulled a uniform back on, I would be a Scot in the British Army/Navy, call it Parochial if you want, I call it PRIDE.

marinello59
03-06-2010, 07:35 AM
Nope mate, I will only ever be a Scot, even if I pulled a uniform back on, I would be a Scot in the British Army/Navy, call it Parochial if you want, I call it PRIDE.

My point being ,(with tongue firmly in cheek :greengrin), that hooligans being described as British shouldn't upset the many Scots who share your sense of identity and wouldn't ever describe themselves as British.

Sandy
03-06-2010, 07:43 AM
My point being ,(with tongue firmly in cheek :greengrin), that hooligans being described as British shouldn't upset the many Scots who share your sense of identity and wouldn't ever describe themselves as British.

Get lost ya old pedant :tee hee: I missed your point completely :doh::slipper:

LancashireHibby
03-06-2010, 10:16 AM
when did english fans last cause serious trouble abroad??

Think the question is more "on another continent" rather than merely abroad - situation will be the same as Japan & Korea in 2002, ie no trouble whatsoever...it's far too far to travel (and far too expensive) just for a tear up.

Posh Swanny
03-06-2010, 11:13 AM
Think the question is more "on another continent" rather than merely abroad - situation will be the same as Japan & Korea in 2002, ie no trouble whatsoever...it's far too far to travel (and far too expensive) just for a tear up.

Indeed.

It'll kick off big time in Weston Super Mare, Swindon and Hitchin though.

LancashireHibby
03-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Indeed.

It'll kick off big time in Weston Super Mare, Swindon and Hitchin though.

No doubt at all, but it'll just be your usual 'Saturday night drunks' type of trouble rather than organised hooliganism.

Scouse Hibee
03-06-2010, 11:52 AM
Its started.

Wonder how many Hoolies in kilts or with welch or Irish accebts we will see/hear rampaging round SA.

Same old...same old...if its good its English, if its bad its British codswallop.


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/137775/Police-foil-British-football-hooligan-invasion/


http://business.maktoob.com/20090000475474/Brit_World_Cup_hooligans_stopped_in_Dubai/Article.htm
Awwww here we go again, change the record Jock! :wink:

Hainan Hibs
03-06-2010, 02:11 PM
English football hooligans vs South African riot police?

All we need is Michael Buffer with his "Let's get ready to rumble" catchphrase, some popcorn, a big tv and a large sofa to sit back on to enjoy the show:greengrin

H18sry
06-06-2010, 08:26 AM
when did english fans last cause serious trouble abroad??

Last year 12th Aug in Amsterdam :wink: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10248223.stm

hibbill2002
06-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Its started.

Wonder how many Hoolies in kilts or with welch or Irish accebts we will see/hear rampaging round SA.

Same old...same old...if its good its English, if its bad its British codswallop.


http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/137775/Police-foil-British-football-hooligan-invasion/


http://business.maktoob.com/20090000475474/Brit_World_Cup_hooligans_stopped_in_Dubai/Article.htm

That'll no happen on account of us being banned after the last time Scotland made a finals. On that occasion fans wrecked the ferry, apparently pulling down all the sails and chucking the cannons over the side.

Richard Scott
06-06-2010, 09:46 AM
:yawn:

Hibernia Na Eir
06-06-2010, 12:05 PM
should only bother the folk that consider themselves "British".

i dont. So doesnt worry me!

Hibs On Tour
06-06-2010, 01:23 PM
Having lived in England for 20 of my 50years I have to say I've not met any Englishmen that know the difference between England/British. To them it means the same thing. I've lost count of the number of times I've heard phrases like "The English Army/Navy". Or indeed calling the UK England (as do the Yanks)

The sad thing is it's not done out of arrogance, it's pure and simple ignorance of their own history. I normally just smile and point out their mistake. As marinello says it's not worth getting worked up about. If your proud to be British and will be supporting England what are you bothered about. If like me your proud to be Scots, what's the fuss about? I work beside 16 English blokes who are well aware I don't want them to win the world cup. They honestly can't understand why but they accept it. If you hear the rubbish they talk about scottish football............well enuff said!

Viva Espana I say :bye:

As a footnote: We were sitting at break talking about the World Cup, when one of my English workmates say's "it must be difficult for mediocre teams like Scotland to qualify for the World Cup now there are so many Eastern European teams in the qualifiers."
The room went quiet and all eyes turned to me, waiting for a reaction. Did you say "mediocre?"
Embarrassed he spluttered "No! I meant middle-ranking"
Although the room fell into fits of laughter I couldn't help wonder if his gaff had been a Freudian slip..

Having regularly visited England for lengthy spells since... well since I was born as my father is English, I can honestly say that the number of English who think Britain = England alone is miniscule. You must have run into a particularly high concentration of ********s but its a LONG way from being representative of England as a whole.

Although it *IS* changing gradually, England has in general been very supportive of Scotland whenever we have been playing anyone from outside the British Isles. Have been in the boozer many many times with the whole pub cheering us on against AN Other. That's not to say there aren't 'sweaty' jokes and banter - of course there is! But, on the other hand I can count on no fingers of no hands how many times this has happened in my experience up here. Remember getting pulled up in the Haymarket for cheering England on v Argentina [Owen goal game] until I pointed out the flaw in the daftie's argument ["you ****ing English?" to be met with "you ****ing Argentinian? We were at war with this lot 10 years ago ya muppet!"]

However, that *IS* gradually changing. Less English are supporting Scotland and more are becoming anti-Scots, IMO because they are catching drift [not before time] of the way we have been to them for so long. SNP taking over at Holyrood hasn't helped that perception naturally. Personally I find it a sad thing that its going that way and would far rather have had it that we had become less parochial and started cheering for them when not playing us. When we play them however, obviously there's only one team in it! Even if we *are* mediocre!

Anyhoo, opinions eh? :greengrin

Sas_The_Hibby
06-06-2010, 05:13 PM
Last year 12th Aug in Amsterdam :wink: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10248223.stm

Except nowhere does the report say whether English fans caused the trouble or were, indeed, involved. Though I accept it doesn't prove anything, 40 fans were arrested, most of them Dutch, and some Dutch media outlets suggested the trouble was actually between rival fans of different Dutch clubs.

One report here http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/08/40_football_hooligans_arrested.php

Now, I am no way claiming England fans are never involved in trouble (! :rolleyes: ) but it's easy to jump to conclusions as you appear to have done. If you follow the international media you will find that generally there is now more football related trouble in France or Italy than in England (though probably not usually connected with their national teams tbh).

Jim44
06-06-2010, 05:23 PM
Slightly off topic , but loosely related, a friend of mine was on the phone ordering something from a company in Bristol last week. The guy on the end of the line asked where he was calling from. When he said 'Scotland' the guy asked, 'Where's that?'. :confused::greengrin

4WAW
06-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Slightly off topic , but loosely related, a friend of mine was on the phone ordering something from a company in Bristol last week. The guy on the end of the line asked where he was calling from. When he said 'Scotland' the guy asked, 'Where's that?'. :confused::greengrin

Are you sure he didn't say "wear the fox hat?" :greengrin (even further off topic)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfMUwCKtWMI

H18sry
06-06-2010, 07:55 PM
Except nowhere does the report say whether English fans caused the trouble or were, indeed, involved. Though I accept it doesn't prove anything, 40 fans were arrested, most of them Dutch, and some Dutch media outlets suggested the trouble was actually between rival fans of different Dutch clubs.

One report here http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/08/40_football_hooligans_arrested.php

Now, I am no way claiming England fans are never involved in trouble (! :rolleyes: ) but it's easy to jump to conclusions as you appear to have done. If you follow the international media you will find that generally there is now more football related trouble in France or Italy than in England (though probably not usually connected with their national teams tbh).

What :confused::confused: posting a link that was on BBC national news condeming English fans for causing trouble, in Amsterdam last year and reporting how the police are seeking to remove passports from known trouble makers, yer right tho I am jumping to conclusions :yawn::yawn:

Removed
06-06-2010, 08:03 PM
Except nowhere does the report say whether English fans caused the trouble or were, indeed, involved. Though I accept it doesn't prove anything, 40 fans were arrested, most of them Dutch, and some Dutch media outlets suggested the trouble was actually between rival fans of different Dutch clubs.

One report here http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/08/40_football_hooligans_arrested.php

Now, I am no way claiming England fans are never involved in trouble (! :rolleyes: ) but it's easy to jump to conclusions as you appear to have done. If you follow the international media you will find that generally there is now more football related trouble in France or Italy than in England (though probably not usually connected with their national teams tbh).

I was in Amsterdam that night and witnessed it with my own eyes. Didn't realise that there were rival Dutch fans going around paggering whilst wearing England strips. Very clever :agree:

Sas_The_Hibby
06-06-2010, 10:56 PM
What :confused::confused: posting a link that was on BBC national news condeming English fans for causing trouble, in Amsterdam last year and reporting how the police are seeking to remove passports from known trouble makers, yer right tho I am jumping to conclusions :yawn::yawn:

You are jumping to conclusions, actually. What you said in your post was that English fans caused serious trouble in Amsterdam on September 12th. Watch the BBC video again, which refers to trouble in Amsterdam, but doesn't say how the trouble started or by whom the trouble was caused. I was merely pointing out that the situation in Amsterdam that night may not have been as clear cut as you were suggesting.

Your apparent assertion that because there is a hooligan element amongst English fans means it must have been English fans that caused the trouble in Amsterdam is a complete non-sequitur. Perhaps they did cause trouble, but the one doesn't follow from the other. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be the accused in a court with you on the jury. :bitchy:

Hainan Hibs
06-06-2010, 10:59 PM
Personally I find it a sad thing that its going that way and would far rather have had it that we had become less parochial and started cheering for them when not playing us.

I'd rather cut off my own baws with a blunt knife.

Sas_The_Hibby
06-06-2010, 11:05 PM
I was in Amsterdam that night and witnessed it with my own eyes. Didn't realise that there were rival Dutch fans going around paggering whilst wearing England strips. Very clever :agree:

Fair enough: I wasn't there and I'm not claiming no English fans were involved. My point was that things are not always necessarily what they appear at first sight.

H18sry
07-06-2010, 07:38 AM
You are jumping to conclusions, actually. What you said in your post was that English fans caused serious trouble in Amsterdam on September 12th. Watch the BBC video again, which refers to trouble in Amsterdam, but doesn't say how the trouble started or by whom the trouble was caused. I was merely pointing out that the situation in Amsterdam that night may not have been as clear cut as you were suggesting.

Your apparent assertion that because there is a hooligan element amongst English fans means it must have been English fans that caused the trouble in Amsterdam is a complete non-sequitur. Perhaps they did cause trouble, but the one doesn't follow from the other. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be the accused in a court with you on the jury. :bitchy:

The video may not have said that, but the BBC reporters certainly did hence the reason I posted the video :yawn:

Musselbound
07-06-2010, 09:07 AM
It does seem that there are still people who don't understand or don't want to understand the difference between British and English. The other week a guy asked me, "When did you get back to England?" He actually meant Britain or Scotland. This was from a bloke who has lived in Scotland for over 6 years so I put this case down to arrogance rather than ignorance as he must have been corrected about this sort of thing many times but decides to persist. I don't bother getting too worked up about it but it's pretty sad really.

Keith_M
07-06-2010, 09:49 AM
Question:

Are Dutch people from Holland or the Netherlands?







NOTE: I already realise Dutch is an incorrect but widely used term, being wrongly changed from Deutsch, as in Deutschland, but that is now the official english word for the nationality.

Holmesdale Hibs
07-06-2010, 10:23 AM
Having lived in England for 20 of my 50years I have to say I've not met any Englishmen that know the difference between England/British.

The sad thing is it's not done out of arrogance, it's pure and simple ignorance of their own history. I normally just smile and point out their mistake. As marinello says it's not worth getting worked up about. If your proud to be British and will be supporting England what are you bothered about. If like me your proud to be Scots, what's the fuss about? I work beside 16 English blokes who are well aware I don't want them to win the world cup. They honestly can't understand why but they accept it. If you hear the rubbish they talk about scottish football............well enuff said!

Viva Espana I say :bye:

As a footnote: We were sitting at break talking about the World Cup, when one of my English workmates say's "it must be difficult for mediocre teams like Scotland to qualify for the World Cup now there are so many Eastern European teams in the qualifiers."
The room went quiet and all eyes turned to me, waiting for a reaction. Did you say "mediocre?"
Embarrassed he spluttered "No! I meant middle-ranking"
Although the room fell into fits of laughter I couldn't help wonder if his gaff had been a Freudian slip..

I've been living in England for almost 5 and I’m sure the vast majority of people do know the difference. Most make a point of showing this when they hear a Scottish accent as some of us are a bit over-sensitive about these things. But I agree – who cares and its not worth getting worked up about. For example, I forget which is which with Orkney and Shetland and I don’t think that makes me ignorant, arrogant or disrespectful to people that live there.

Re mediocre or middle-ranking, I would say its hard to argue with either. There are more eastern European teams that are better than us than there were 20 years ago. I will watch the world cup but its difficult to get excited by it when Scotland aren’t playing. I’ll support whoever I get in the sweepstake.

Phil D. Rolls
07-06-2010, 02:52 PM
Question:

Are Dutch people from Holland or the Netherlands?







NOTE: I already realise Dutch is an incorrect but widely used term, being wrongly changed from Deutsch, as in Deutschland, but that is now the official english word for the nationality.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Netherlands_map_large.png/400px-Netherlands_map_large.png

As I understand it, North Holland and South Holland are provinces of the Netherlands. So no Dutch people come from Holland as such. Crayshee place, crayshee people!

DC_Hibs
07-06-2010, 03:20 PM
South Africa has deported 10 suspected football hooligans from Argentina who police say were planning to disrupt the World Cup.

The men, identified as members of the notorious "Barras Bravas" gang, were arrested at Johannesburg airport and found to be on an entry blacklist.

The men, part of a larger group of about 80 fans, were detained on Sunday after a flight from Angola, and deported on Monday.

At least two of them were gang leaders, and another was out on bail for murder, according to police.

Keith_M
07-06-2010, 07:18 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Netherlands_map_large.png/400px-Netherlands_map_large.png

As I understand it, North Holland and South Holland are provinces of the Netherlands. So no Dutch people come from Holland as such. Crayshee place, crayshee people!

Thanks...

...I think.


Anyway, my point was that more than just Scottish people get a bit of a raw deal when it comes to their actual country name. Though the Dutch fans do chant 'Holland, Holland' at games, so that's actually a totally ******* example.

Maybe I should just shut up now :greengrin