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View Full Version : NHC FFS - gie it a rest Craig eh?



Hibs On Tour
30-05-2010, 01:38 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8713491.stm

"We're hoping to get it reworded/rewritten"

What's wrong with just playing to the rules and not embarassing us with all this pish AGAIN?

Are there really that few Scottish players as good as Andy Driver?

You'd think Harry Potter was riding the guy FFS! :grr:

Hibernian Verse
30-05-2010, 01:41 PM
Andy Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad and I'd be doing exactly the same as Levein is.

And playing to FIFA rules as you suggest would allow him to play for us, he represented us at schoolboy level and has lived here for 5 years +. It's this ridiculous agreement we have with the other nations.

HibeeMcGinn1
30-05-2010, 01:48 PM
Andy Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad and I'd be doing exactly the same as Levein is.

And playing to FIFA rules as you suggest would allow him to play for us, he represented us at schoolboy level and has lived here for 5 years +. It's this ridiculous agreement we have with the other nations.

Agree 100%

As much as I dont like the guy for being a Jambo there no doubt he is a good player so why not give him a chance in a friendly or 2 to prove himself.

greenlex
30-05-2010, 01:52 PM
If he is as decent as folk think why dies he never turn up against Hibs even when fit? Average at best for me.

hibbymac
30-05-2010, 01:54 PM
Green tints off, Dark Blue tints on, ... I'd have him in the squad.

Hibernian Verse
30-05-2010, 01:56 PM
If he is as decent as folk think why dies he never turn up against Hibs even when fit? Average at best for me.

So you're basing your opinion on three/four games a season? He's been a consistent performer for them over the past few seasons and will only get better as he's still young. This is the type of player we should be pulling out all the stops to get, whether he was born Scottish or not.

weecounty hibby
30-05-2010, 01:58 PM
Sorry but not for me. I have said it many times before that we must really be struggling as a nation when we are desperate to get a very average player to play for us.
We should be concentrating on getting the guys who ARE Scottish to play for us, McGeady, McArthur etc and not let them slip off and pretend they are Irish.

Toaods
30-05-2010, 02:02 PM
much ado about nothing.... very rarely puts together any sequence of games or performances.

Over-hyped, had he been born in Edinburgh he would be classed as 'injury prone'.

Agree with others he's not worthy for the hassle of all this courting Levein seems to be doing and if the rules are rewritten it will as usual back fire on us rather than favour us.

Once Andy Carrol has rejected Scotland, questions may be asked as to why Levein seems to be conducting such business in public.....who's next? Kovesavic(D. Utd) as he's lived here for 5 years and is apparently a nice huy.

Woody1985
30-05-2010, 02:02 PM
Andy Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad and I'd be doing exactly the same as Levein is.

And playing to FIFA rules as you suggest would allow him to play for us, he represented us at schoolboy level and has lived here for 5 years +. It's this ridiculous agreement we have with the other nations.

No it's not, it's simply another safe guard put in place to demonstrate that we are separate nations because technically we can pick players from any GB country. If we start to relax things too much we will become a team GB full time.

Screw Driver (:greengrin), he chose England and only decided to play for us when he knew he would never make it at that level. I don't like being taken for second best.

Hibernian Verse
30-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Sorry but not for me. I have said it many times before that we must really be struggling as a nation when we are desperate to get a very average player to play for us.
We should be concentrating on getting the guys who ARE Scottish to play for us, McGeady, McArthur etc and not let them slip off and pretend they are Irish.

At the time they both decided, Ireland were (and still are) the far better nation. If you have one parent Scottish and one parent Irish then you might feel drawn to both and the deciding factor would probably come down to which is the better team. That's like saying if Berra had had the opportunity to play for France and did so before we got to him that we should've got in there and taken him.

Once more, he's not an average player. Average players don't get selected for England U21s.

Et plus...this is not really any different than Chris Commons, Iwelumo, James Morrison...endless list.

And FWIW, I'd take Kovacevic :greengrin:

Hibs On Tour
30-05-2010, 02:11 PM
much ado about nothing.... very rarely puts together any sequence of games or performances.

Over-hyped, had he been born in Edinburgh he would be classed as 'injury prone'.

Agree with others he's not worthy for the hassle of all this courting Levein seems to be doing and if the rules are rewritten it will as usual back fire on us rather than favour us.

Once Andy Carrol has rejected Scotland, questions may be asked as to why Levein seems to be conducting such business in public.....who's next? Kovesavic(D. Utd) as he's lived here for 5 years and is apparently a nice huy.

That's my take on it. He's a slightly above average, injury prone player who has only thrown his hat into the ring for Scotland because he hasn't made the grade in getting into England's attentions.

Fair do's perhaps if he was Rooney-esque but its a long way from that - there are plenty of comparable Scottish players and what must it do to their confidence to see Craig Levein try repeatedly to shoe-horn in someone like this instead of going for Scottish players? In those circumstances, does it not strike you that the likes of any McCarthy's etc are going to be LESS likely to opt for Scotland because of this?

Or do we want to go down the Irish Republic's route of just playing anyone who has sunk a pint of Guinness at some point?

Gus
30-05-2010, 02:12 PM
No it's not, it's simply another safe guard put in place to demonstrate that we are separate nations because technically we can pick players from any GB country. If we start to relax things too much we will become a team GB full time.

Screw Driver (:greengrin), he chose England and only decided to play for us when he knew he would never make it at that level. I don't like being taken for second best.

sadly as a footballing nation you are......not nice to hear i'm sure. But Driver has been a good performer for that lot & if there is a way round it, i think Scotland cannot afford to pass up someone of his ability IMHO

Jack
30-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Absolutely NO WAY he should be getting near a Scotland jersey. :grr:





Well at least not until he’s away from that manky mob – we’re not wanting them making any more money than absolutely necessary! :greengrin

jgl07
30-05-2010, 02:30 PM
Agree 100%

As much as I dont like the guy for being a Jambo there no doubt he is a good player so why not give him a chance in a friendly or 2 to prove himself.
He looks very average to me. He looked promising a couple of years back but has failed to deliver.

He is a perennial sicknote who seems to limp off when the going gets tough.

bighairyfaeleith
30-05-2010, 02:34 PM
Don't rate him so wouldn't pick him. However I have no problem with us picking players like him if they are good enough and eligible. I think the two issues should be separated though.

Westie1875
30-05-2010, 02:38 PM
That's my take on it. He's a slightly above average, injury prone player who has only thrown his hat into the ring for Scotland because he hasn't made the grade in getting into England's attentions.

Fair do's perhaps if he was Rooney-esque but its a long way from that - there are plenty of comparable Scottish players and what must it do to their confidence to see Craig Levein try repeatedly to shoe-horn in someone like this instead of going for Scottish players? In those circumstances, does it not strike you that the likes of any McCarthy's etc are going to be LESS likely to opt for Scotland because of this?

Or do we want to go down the Irish Republic's route of just playing anyone who has sunk a pint of Guinness at some point?


:top marks It is pathetic IMO.

Hibernian Verse
30-05-2010, 02:46 PM
re: sinking pints of Guinness...

Surely the immediate success of the nation is imperative. The better Scotland does at football, the more kids will get involved when they see us at World Cups and European Championships. I was only 6 when we were at the 98 World Cup and I loved it, it was so exciting. But for the last 2 world cups and this one upcoming I don't see Scotland, I see the other nations getting their chance rather than ours because us players simply aren't good enough.

Young footballers with potential don't look up to players because of their nationality, they look up to them because they're great.

The better the country does in the short-term, the stronger our youth system will be in long term. IMHO.

Johnny_Leith
30-05-2010, 03:21 PM
Driver is not an International player. I know plenty Hearts fans who think he's vastly overrated, his distribution is awful and he's very one footed. I've never been that impressed by him in the derby's. David Van Zanten had him in his back pocket whenever he played ffs, the goals he's scored against us have been lucky, McNeil dropping the ball right to him, Stack letting the ball bounce of the post and the ball falling perfectly for him. Driver should go down to the Championship and try to get a couple years of playing every week, he would really improve as a player and then maybe we can talk about trying to get him into the Scotland team, but until then don't make me laugh!

Spike Mandela
30-05-2010, 04:06 PM
He could always just play Riordan.

Goals aren't a Scotland thing though are they. Much better someone who gives us 110%:yawn:

Toaods
30-05-2010, 04:11 PM
He could always just play Riordan.


...that is what perhaps Levein dreads most....:cool2:

Beefster
30-05-2010, 04:18 PM
Andy Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad and I'd be doing exactly the same as Levein is.

And playing to FIFA rules as you suggest would allow him to play for us, he represented us at schoolboy level and has lived here for 5 years +. It's this ridiculous agreement we have with the other nations.

He also had no problem representing England last year at U21 level.

Hibernian Verse
30-05-2010, 04:20 PM
He also had no problem representing England last year at U21 level.

Which means what exactly? That he shouldn't now play for us because he's played for them?

Spike Mandela
30-05-2010, 04:22 PM
Which means what exactly? That he shouldn't now play for us because he's played for them?

Surely by the time he's in his 20's he knows what nationality he is Mikey.

He's bloody English or does that not matter any more?

weecounty hibby
30-05-2010, 04:32 PM
At the time they both decided, Ireland were (and still are) the far better nation. If you have one parent Scottish and one parent Irish then you might feel drawn to both and the deciding factor would probably come down to which is the better team. That's like saying if Berra had had the opportunity to play for France and did so before we got to him that we should've got in there and taken him.

Once more, he's not an average player. Average players don't get selected for England U21s.

Et plus...this is not really any different than Chris Commons, Iwelumo, James Morrison...endless list.

And FWIW, I'd take Kovacevic :greengrin:

I may be wrong but I don't think these guys had any Irish parents, I think it was a grandparent each at best. I wasn't necessarily criticising them but the SFA for letting them get away.

Driver is English, has NO Scottish family, and has already chosen, as an adult, to play for England. That really should be the end of it.

HenryMonk
30-05-2010, 04:34 PM
That's my take on it. He's a slightly above average, injury prone player who has only thrown his hat into the ring for Scotland because he hasn't made the grade in getting into England's attentions.

Fair do's perhaps if he was Rooney-esque but its a long way from that - there are plenty of comparable Scottish players and what must it do to their confidence to see Craig Levein try repeatedly to shoe-horn in someone like this instead of going for Scottish players? In those circumstances, does it not strike you that the likes of any McCarthy's etc are going to be LESS likely to opt for Scotland because of this?

Or do we want to go down the Irish Republic's route of just playing anyone who has sunk a pint of Guinness at some point?

in our case a whisky:agree:

weecounty hibby
30-05-2010, 04:38 PM
in our case a whiskey:agree:[/QUOTE]

Scotch whisky has no e. That would be Irish or bourbon.

HenryMonk
30-05-2010, 04:38 PM
I may be wrong but I don't think these guys had any Irish parents, I think it was a grandparent each at best. I wasn't necessarily criticising them but the SFA for letting them get away.

Driver is English, has NO Scottish family, and has already chosen, as an adult, to play for England. That really should be the end of it.

excatly, **** him!

Part/Time Supporter
30-05-2010, 04:42 PM
It's faintly ridiculous that the SFA are pushing for rule changes for Driver, a marginal player at best.

Hibs On Tour
30-05-2010, 05:26 PM
re: sinking pints of Guinness...

Surely the immediate success of the nation is imperative. The better Scotland does at football, the more kids will get involved when they see us at World Cups and European Championships. I was only 6 when we were at the 98 World Cup and I loved it, it was so exciting. But for the last 2 world cups and this one upcoming I don't see Scotland, I see the other nations getting their chance rather than ours because us players simply aren't good enough.

Young footballers with potential don't look up to players because of their nationality, they look up to them because they're great.

The better the country does in the short-term, the stronger our youth system will be in long term. IMHO.

Have to say I disagree almost totally with that. Youngsters associate with players from their own country - its just getting plain ridiculous that players with no Scottish relatives, who were born elsewhere and have played at the next level down from full International can basically just switch sides. Long-term IMO that will lead to less interest in playing for your own country and more for whichever one you can get a game for. Hardly in the bigger interest.

This is a case of trying to bend the rules for a player no better than is available home-grown who is only interested because he realises he has no chance of breaking into England's first team squad.

Whole thing stinks to me. Whatever happened to players really [I mean REALLY] caring for their country/jersey? Relevant example Piennar [or however you spell it] of Everton - could have played for Holland but elected to say no, I am a South African I would only play for them. That, to me, is how it should be right down the line. Fair do's perhaps if your bloodline [parents, at a push grandparents] link you to another country but not just bloody going to school somewhere!

Hibernian Verse
30-05-2010, 05:32 PM
Have to say I disagree almost totally with that. Youngsters associate with players from their own country - its just getting plain ridiculous that players with no Scottish relatives, who were born elsewhere and have played at the next level down from full International can basically just switch sides. Long-term IMO that will lead to less interest in playing for your own country and more for whichever one you can get a game for. Hardly in the bigger interest.

This is a case of trying to bend the rules for a player no better than is available home-grown who is only interested because he realises he has no chance of breaking into England's first team squad.

Whole thing stinks to me. Whatever happened to players really [I mean REALLY] caring for their country/jersey? Relevant example Piennar [or however you spell it] of Everton - could have played for Holland but elected to say no, I am a South African I would only play for them. That, to me, is how it should be right down the line. Fair do's perhaps if your bloodline [parents, at a push grandparents] link you to another country but not just bloody going to school somewhere!

People not choosing their country has nothing to do with my opinion. The guy has good potential and we'd be wise, IMO, to get him playing international football just now even if it's just friendlies.

Also, I'm sure that kids are more likely to look up to this year's World Cup stars than Kenny Miller and Kris Boyd.

seanraff07
30-05-2010, 09:30 PM
Am i the only one that thinks Riordan would do a better job for Scotland at left wing than Driver would?

Driver is injury-prone, gash everytime he plays us and is an English bassa.:grr:

Riordan is Scottish, more experience than Driver, scores goals for fun playing as a winger and will still assist more goals IMO.

marinello59
30-05-2010, 09:39 PM
Am i the only one that thinks Riordan would do a better job for Scotland at left wing than Driver would?

Driver is injury-prone, gash everytime he plays us and is an English bassa.:grr:

Riordan is Scottish, more experience than Driver, scores goals for fun playing as a winger and will still assist more goals IMO.

And I thought it was just the media we hated?

NaeTechnoHibby
30-05-2010, 09:52 PM
I agree with the OP as this should really be a non-story and IMO Levein is doing himself no favours :bitchy:

We have better truely Scottish players who would give their eye-teeth to be picked :agree:

Besides, we had the great Joe Baker and brother Gerry who, by due of his father being in the military, were born in England and USA respectively, and never able to represent their chosen preference. Joe accepted his lot and got called up for England and played, was very unlucky not to be chosen for the 1966 squad.

I think Iwelumo (sp?) is a wrong comparison, I think he was born here and has at least one Scottish parent, hails from Lanarkshire or somelike :agree:

Before anyone calls me a "name"... I was born in ENGLAND and have lived in Scotland since I was 3 years old .... I know the drill :rolleyes:

:saltireflag

seanraff07
30-05-2010, 10:05 PM
And I thought it was just the media we hated?

I despise players whilst playing for England, you could say the media are to blame for that.

CropleyWasGod
30-05-2010, 10:06 PM
I despise players whilst playing for England, you could say the media are to blame for that.

.. or you could say small-minded parochialism is to blame :greengrin

Woody1985
30-05-2010, 10:17 PM
sadly as a footballing nation you are......not nice to hear i'm sure. But Driver has been a good performer for that lot & if there is a way round it, i think Scotland cannot afford to pass up someone of his ability IMHO

I'd rather be beaten with 11 Scots on the park than win with 11 players who would have England (or any other country) as their first choice.

If Driver said that he has always felt Scottish and we were his first choice I'd grudgingly support him but at the end of the day he chose England and only when he's realised he's not ever going to make it at that level he chose us. I love the fact that he can't play for us (and it has nothing to do with him being a Hearts player).

erin go bragh
30-05-2010, 10:40 PM
No it's not, it's simply another safe guard put in place to demonstrate that we are separate nations because technically we can pick players from any GB country. If we start to relax things too much we will become a team GB full time.

Screw Driver (:greengrin), he chose England and only decided to play for us when he knew he would never make it at that level. I don't like being taken for second best.
let it out big man ,she is no worth it:greengrin

Fantic
30-05-2010, 10:55 PM
I'd rather be beaten with 11 Scots on the park than win with 11 players who would have England (or any other country) as their first choice.

If Driver said that he has always felt Scottish and we were his first choice I'd grudgingly support him but at the end of the day he chose England and only when he's realised he's not ever going to make it at that level he chose us. I love the fact that he can't play for us (and it has nothing to do with him being a Hearts player).

And he is a Hearts player so **** him

An Leargaidh
30-05-2010, 11:07 PM
I agree with the OP as this should really be a non-story and IMO Levein is doing himself no favours :bitchy:

Totally agree mate. Levein is just going to make a fool of himself or the SFA in the long run or worse open the floodgates for more borderline (pun unintended) cases where people get to play for a country that they once went to on holiday etc.


We have better truely Scottish players who would give their eye-teeth to be picked :agree:

Totally agree, don't know why Levein is trying to get the rules bent for this one guy apart from the obvious that the two know each other well.


Before anyone calls me a "name"... I was born in ENGLAND and have lived in Scotland since I was 3 years old .... I know the drill :rolleyes:

I sympathise.

What I would say is that I don't personally care who anyone from anywhere decides they are nationality-wise, as long as they stick to that. Just like the old saying you made your bed now you'll have to sleep in it, I believe that whatever flag you raise you keep it raised.

From Irish descent I have always supported the Republic of Ireland in international football and the all Ireland rugby team. Even if both these teams ended up being bottom of everything and never getting anywhere it's who I support. I'd think myself a total hypocrite if I suddenly decided to support Scotland just because they were doing better than Ireland.

Driver played for England and in my book that is that. He raised his flag and he should stick with that through thick or thin. If he gets to play for Scotland it'll just de-value the whole point of having national teams. In ten or so years you could end up with people playing for a country that they were not born in and have no relatives from on all sorts of convenient technicalities.

:flag:

NaeTechnoHibby
30-05-2010, 11:18 PM
Totally agree mate. Levein is just going to make a fool of himself or the SFA in the long run or worse open the floodgates for more borderline (pun unintended) cases where people get to play for a country that they once went to on holiday etc.



Totally agree, don't know why Levein is trying to get the rules bent for this one guy apart from the obvious that the two know each other well.



I sympathise.

What I would say is that I don't personally care who anyone from anywhere decides they are nationality-wise, as long as they stick to that. Just like the old saying you made your bed now you'll have to sleep in it, I believe that whatever flag you raise you keep it raised.

From Irish descent I have always supported the Republic of Ireland in international football and the all Ireland rugby team. Even if both these teams ended up being bottom of everything and never getting anywhere it's who I support. I'd think myself a total hypocrite if I suddenly decided to support Scotland just because they were doing better than Ireland.

Driver played for England and in my book that is that. He raised his flag and he should stick with that through thick or thin. If he gets to play for Scotland it'll just de-value the whole point of having national teams. In ten or so years you could end up with people playing for a country that they were not born in and have no relatives from on all sorts of convenient technicalities.

:flag:

Have you lived in Glasgow??

I have Irish and Scottish parentage so I am :cool2:

Beefster
31-05-2010, 05:33 AM
Which means what exactly? That he shouldn't now play for us because he's played for them?

Yup, it means he's English. End of story.

Toaods
31-05-2010, 08:25 AM
Prince Bauben for Scotland....:wink:

HibbyAndy
31-05-2010, 08:41 AM
Prince Bauben for Scotland....:wink:

Mare chance of getting fresh prince of belair.

Craig_in_Prague
31-05-2010, 09:34 AM
He was running about in an England shirt a year ago (or so),
no thanks. :bitchy:
Full grown adult, made his choice.

Ask him who he's supporting in the World Cup, that might confirm if he should get anywhere near a Dark Blue jersey or not :greengrin

bingo70
31-05-2010, 09:43 AM
These should be no 'choice', your either scottish or no, **** em, same with that andy carroll ****

JimBHibees
31-05-2010, 09:50 AM
At the time they both decided, Ireland were (and still are) the far better nation. If you have one parent Scottish and one parent Irish then you might feel drawn to both and the deciding factor would probably come down to which is the better team. That's like saying if Berra had had the opportunity to play for France and did so before we got to him that we should've got in there and taken him.

Once more, he's not an average player. Average players don't get selected for England U21s.

Et plus...this is not really any different than Chris Commons, Iwelumo, James Morrison...endless list.

And FWIW, I'd take Kovacevic :greengrin:

Except they didnt they had one grandparent while both parents and other grandparents were Scottish, they were born and brought up in Scotland, learned their football in Scotland yet chose to play for Ireland. Driver IMO is much more Scottish than they are Irish. What is more galling is that they are both excellent players? Celtic's plastic Irishness probably was a factor also.

Holmesdale Hibs
31-05-2010, 10:23 AM
Driver is a decent player who, on a good day, could be a sub for Scotland. Maybe he'll get better with age. Unfortunately we’re short of ‘decent’ players just now and, even if he is an English jambo, we can’t be too picky. As far as I’m concerned Levein is just doing his job.

I felt a bit sorry for Driver last time and the SFA should have been sure he was eligible before asking him and telling the media.

I’m not that fussy about the outcome but we shouldn’t be bad-mouthing Levein for doing all he can to enhance the Scotland squad.

Hibercelona
31-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Drivers English.

Good or not, he doesn't belong in the Scotland squad.

He'd leap frog us to go to England at any opportunity, so he wouldn't be fully committed in a Scotland shirt.

It just wouldn't feel right either.

Imagine replacing our current squad with the English squad. Sure, we'd get into the world cup no problem, but it wouldn't be Scotland!

sahib
31-05-2010, 12:35 PM
Is there a genetic test for Scottishness?
Failing that use the Harry Lauder criteria: If you can say, "It's a braw bricht moonlicht nicht",
Then yer a'richt, ye ken.

Musselbound
31-05-2010, 02:43 PM
It's faintly ridiculous that the SFA are pushing for rule changes for Driver, a marginal player at best.

:agree: I had no objections to trying to get Driver in and can see the sense in giving us more options but I'm surprised Levein is pursuing it to the extent of looking at a rule change. It's Driver not Messi. I think Scotland have better left sided players. Dorrans and Snodgrass can play there, as can Adam (although he's a different type) and I'd fancy Riordan to contribute more goals than Driver from that area of the park.

Musselbound
31-05-2010, 02:48 PM
Driver is a decent player who, on a good day, could be a sub for Scotland. Maybe he'll get better with age. Unfortunately we’re short of ‘decent’ players just now and, even if he is an English jambo, we can’t be too picky. As far as I’m concerned Levein is just doing his job.

I felt a bit sorry for Driver last time and the SFA should have been sure he was eligible before asking him and telling the media.

I’m not that fussy about the outcome but we shouldn’t be bad-mouthing Levein for doing all he can to enhance the Scotland squad.

:agree:

Lucius Apuleius
31-05-2010, 02:55 PM
:agree:

Said it a thousand times. FIFA set the rules for international eligibility. We are breaking no rules in pursuing him or anybody else eligible to play for Scotland irrespective of their place of birth or parentage. Whether they are good enough or not is a different story.

Removed
31-05-2010, 03:03 PM
Drivers English.

Good or not, he doesn't belong in the Scotland squad.

He'd leap frog us to go to England at any opportunity, so he wouldn't be fully committed in a Scotland shirt.

It just wouldn't feel right either.

Imagine replacing our current squad with the English squad. Sure, we'd get into the world cup no problem, but it wouldn't be Scotland!

:agree: :agree: :agree:

:top marks

greenlex
31-05-2010, 03:03 PM
So you're basing your opinion on three/four games a season? He's been a consistent performer for them over the past few seasons and will only get better as he's still young. This is the type of player we should be pulling out all the stops to get, whether he was born Scottish or not.

Yes and TV evidence. He scored one decent goal (The Yams were calling it Archie Gemmillesque:rolleyes:) and a decent strike against us at Tynie last year. There are better players in the position. Riordan and Dorans for example without getting things changed.Add to that he wanted to play for England till he couldnt make the step up then no thanks.
It is nothing to do with him playing for hearts by the way I think Trigger should be the scotland left back by some way.

Musselbound
31-05-2010, 03:06 PM
Said it a thousand times. FIFA set the rules for international eligibility. We are breaking no rules in pursuing him or anybody else eligible to play for Scotland irrespective of their place of birth or parentage. Whether they are good enough or not is a different story.

Totally agree, but I think the SFA blundered again as they should have checked that Driver qualified on the gentleman's agreement they supposedly set up with the other home nations before going so public about it. The way it turned out made it look as if they couldn't even be bothered to do a few simple calculations first and this made the manager look a bit daft when really it is someone else's job.


He was running about in an England shirt a year ago (or so),
no thanks. :bitchy:
Full grown adult, made his choice.

Ask him who he's supporting in the World Cup, that might confirm if he should get anywhere near a Dark Blue jersey or not :greengrin

Last time I checked Scotland weren't at the World Cup so I imagine it will be an easy choice for him to support the country of his birth. Nothing wrong with that. What's he supposed to do? Support whoever is playing against England to prove he is really Scottish?:wink:

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 03:15 PM
Forgetting Andy Driver, I think the question is do we want Scotland to be in with a better chance of qualifying for the World Cup?

If yes, then we have to go down this route with other players, if no then we'll forever languish in the depths of international football.

I couldn't care less who wins us games, if they can score vital goals for us then I'll support them. If Andy Carroll plays for Scotland and scores the winning goal in a final group game to take us to WC 2014, will everyone be complaining? I think not.

NaeTechnoHibby
31-05-2010, 04:09 PM
Forgetting Andy Driver, I think the question is do we want Scotland to be in with a better chance of qualifying for the World Cup?

If yes, then we have to go down this route with other players, if no then we'll forever languish in the depths of international football.

I couldn't care less who wins us games, if they can score vital goals for us then I'll support them. If Andy Carroll plays for Scotland and scores the winning goal in a final group game to take us to WC 2014, will everyone be complaining? I think not.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing, to be fair, about using the tenuous parentage/domicillary routes to secure better players :agree:

BUT ..... and its a BIG BUT imho, we agreed to the rules in the first place and we have to adhere to them, not throw a hissy fit when it turns out that any player the SFA think might qualify actually does not. :agree:

The fact is Andrew Driver does not qualify and to suggest changing the rules to allow him (or any other player in these circumstances) is frankly ludicrous :agree:

The rule was that even though he had no Scottish birth or lineage he could have qualified if he had been at school here for 5 years............... only 5 years ..... it's not much to ask IMO

I know he fell short by a few months, but that's tough. Lines have to be drawn somewhere :agree:

Hibs On Tour
31-05-2010, 04:12 PM
Forgetting Andy Driver, I think the question is do we want Scotland to be in with a better chance of qualifying for the World Cup?

If yes, then we have to go down this route with other players, if no then we'll forever languish in the depths of international football.

I couldn't care less who wins us games, if they can score vital goals for us then I'll support them. If Andy Carroll plays for Scotland and scores the winning goal in a final group game to take us to WC 2014, will everyone be complaining? I think not.

The point is, if we use players who aren't even remotely Scottish then it isn't 'Scotland' who would be qualifying for it. Kinda like how Hibs winning the SPL/Scottish Cup without the OF wouldn't be worth as much as winning it with them in it.

Its *NOT* just about whether we qualify - its about whether we do it on our own merits or not. Bringing in non-Scots isn't the answer - upping our own game is.

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 04:17 PM
The point is, if we use players who aren't even remotely Scottish then it isn't 'Scotland' who would be qualifying for it. Kinda like how Hibs winning the SPL/Scottish Cup without the OF wouldn't be worth as much as winning it with them in it.

Its *NOT* just about whether we qualify - its about whether we do it on our own merits or not. Bringing in non-Scots isn't the answer - upping our own game is.

But perhaps bringing in non-Scots is the answer to upping our own game which will, in turn, be the answer to a better base to build upon.

Look at Eduardo for Croatia, Tulio for Japan, Cacau for Germany. It's time to let go and push on as a footballing nation.

Would we seriously kb these players if they had qualified for Scotland?

Hibs On Tour
31-05-2010, 04:23 PM
y
But perhaps bringing in non-Scots is the answer to upping our own game which will, in turn, be the answer to a better base to build upon.

Look at Eduardo for Croatia, Tulio for Japan, Cacau for Germany. It's time to let go and push on as a footballing nation.

Would we seriously kb these players if they had qualified for Scotland?

We're no gonna agree on this! :greengrin

Can't for the life of me see how bringing in non-Scots over Scots is the answer to upping our game, particularly with examples like Driver where he's no better IMHO to other home-grown players. All it does is shunt home-grown players further down the queue and disillusion more of our own young players because they know they have even less chance of wearing the colours of THEIR country.

Ultimately, our own players need to make it on their own merits. If we can't do that, we deserve to be a footballing backwater [sadly]. Its harder and longer-term to fix our own problems but that IS the answer...

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 04:52 PM
y

We're no gonna agree on this! :greengrin

Can't for the life of me see how bringing in non-Scots over Scots is the answer to upping our game, particularly with examples like Driver where he's no better IMHO to other home-grown players. All it does is shunt home-grown players further down the queue and disillusion more of our own young players because they know they have even less chance of wearing the colours of THEIR country.

Ultimately, our own players need to make it on their own merits. If we can't do that, we deserve to be a footballing backwater [sadly]. Its harder and longer-term to fix our own problems but that IS the answer...

Ok so let's put Driver to the side as I did, answer the question re: Eduardo etc.

The point I made earlier in the thread was that it's possible that raising the profile of the Scottish game by exploiting any international rules we can to improve the national team in the short-term will be of long-term benefits. E.G As a boy I looked up to Zidane, Ronaldo and Henry rather than Don Hutchison and Christian Dailly ∴ I think that getting the best players we possibly can will only benefit us. Football's about success IMO.

Woody1985
31-05-2010, 05:19 PM
But perhaps bringing in non-Scots is the answer to upping our own game which will, in turn, be the answer to a better base to build upon.

Look at Eduardo for Croatia, Tulio for Japan, Cacau for Germany. It's time to let go and push on as a footballing nation.

Would we seriously kb these players if they had qualified for Scotland?

I think I'm correct in saying that these nations gave citizenship to these players and this is where that doesn't work for us as we have an agreement between the other home nations that we will not do because it opens a can of worms because they can effectively just choose any of the home nations they want to play for. The 5 year school ruling was introduced to allow those players that have lived and been (football) educated in another home nation the opportunity at international football. Every time we stretch those boundaries the less of a nation we become and the more of a chance we have of changing to team GB.

I don't want any players who've just been given a stamped document to play for Scotland. Call me sentimental but I'd rather Scottish players with Scottish parents or those with Scottish grandparents (that have at least been to Scotland before) and want to play for us as their first choice.

This is international football, not club football. Sometimes you just have to accept that you don't make the grade and try to improve what you have rather than try and scrape onto any bit of success we can. It's hollow and quite sad to be honest.

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 05:21 PM
I think I'm correct in saying that these nations gave citizenship to these players and this is where that doesn't work for us as we have an agreement between the other home nations that we will not do because it opens a can of worms because they can effectively just choose any of the home nations they want to play for. The 5 year school ruling was introduced to allow those players that have lived and been (football) educated in another home nation the opportunity at international football. Every time we stretch those boundaries the less of a nation we become and the more of a chance we have of changing to team GB.

I don't want any players who've just been given a stamped document to play for Scotland. Call me sentimental but I'd rather Scottish players with Scottish parents or those with Scottish grandparents (that have at least been to Scotland before) and want to play for us as their first choice.

This is international football, not club football. Sometimes you just have to accept that you don't make the grade and try to improve what you have rather than try and scrape onto any bit of success we can. It's hollow and quite sad to be honest.

But at the same time, Eduardo lived in Croatia for the required number of years (as did Driver here through schooling) so I see little difference. It wouldn't be difficult to introduce a home nations ruling that says scraps all that's gone before and seperates the four nations in footballing terms. That would be so much simpler and completely do away with this debate.

I don't agree with the last paragraph of your post. As a Scottish person, I want to see my country doing well. Why should we sit back and be content with being crap when we have opportunities to get better.

Woody1985
31-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Ok so let's put Driver to the side as I did, answer the question re: Eduardo etc.

The point I made earlier in the thread was that it's possible that raising the profile of the Scottish game by exploiting any international rules we can to improve the national team in the short-term will be of long-term benefits. E.G As a boy I looked up to Zidane, Ronaldo and Henry rather than Don Hutchison and Christian Dailly ∴ I think that getting the best players we possibly can will only benefit us. Football's about success IMO.

International football is against pitching your best 11 players against another countries best 11 players to see who has the best team. It's about pride and how your country can develop players and also show your countries passion for the sport, not trying to draft in players from other countries you make 'your' country look better than it actually is.

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 05:31 PM
International football is against pitching your best 11 players against another countries best 11 players to see who has the best team. It's about pride and how your country can develop players and also show your countries passion for the sport, not trying to draft in players from other countries you make 'your' country look better than it actually is.

Yes but why should we cripple ourselves by not exploiting the rules? I completely agree that it would be nice if we could field our best Scottish 11 and do well, but they don't. Ok we'll have plenty self-pride but we'll still be crap. We're going to be, and I'd actually argue we already have been, left behind by other nations that were once on a par with us, not least Ireland and including Croatia and Japan. Even the best teams do it, look at Germany.

Beefster
31-05-2010, 05:47 PM
Yes but why should we cripple ourselves by not exploiting the rules? I completely agree that it would be nice if we could field our best Scottish 11 and do well, but they don't. Ok we'll have plenty self-pride but we'll still be crap. We're going to be, and I'd actually argue we already have been, left behind by other nations that were once on a par with us, not least Ireland and including Croatia and Japan. Even the best teams do it, look at Germany.

The rules say that Driver doesn't qualify. Levein doesn't want to exploit the rules - he wants to rewrite them to suit the current situation.

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 05:48 PM
The rules say that Driver doesn't qualify. Levein doesn't want to exploit the rules - he wants to rewrite them to suit the current situation.

We're off the topic of Driver now :greengrin It's now in general using FIFA rules.

Hibs On Tour
31-05-2010, 05:49 PM
Ok so let's put Driver to the side as I did, answer the question re: Eduardo etc.

The point I made earlier in the thread was that it's possible that raising the profile of the Scottish game by exploiting any international rules we can to improve the national team in the short-term will be of long-term benefits. E.G As a boy I looked up to Zidane, Ronaldo and Henry rather than Don Hutchison and Christian Dailly ∴ I think that getting the best players we possibly can will only benefit us. Football's about success IMO.

I have! Its just that I don't agree with you! :wink:

Regardless of how much I loved various players from various countries at various WC, I only ever wanted to play for my own country. I didn't at any stage want to become eligible through the back door to play for the likes of Croatia for example nor did I seriously wish that the likes of Zico would be somehow shoe-horned into being eligible to play for Scotland.

I did love however whenever Scotland came up against these nations because it was MY country against theirs. If it isn't a team of Scots playing them then there is no way that you can say that IMO. It just becomes a nonsense.

There are LOTS of reasons that Scotland isn't producing the same quantity of quality young players as in previous generations; the game needs overhauled from the top down in my opinion. One central aspect that IMO has *not* been to the advantage of the development of young Scottish players has been the mass influx of foreign players en-mass [by which I mean journeyman foreign players, not the elite stars of the Premiership or even the better ones that still occasionally appear at the OF's gates] which only means less chances for Scottish players. I believe that cream still floats to the top but there are less chances to progress, less chances to develop, less incentive to even try. Hence more do end up leaving the game. We're reaping what we've sown ourselves to a degree and we're now talking about doing exactly the same with the national team [yes, I know we kinda have already for years but this is stretching the boundaries even further]

I just don't agree that's what we should be doing either at league or national level...

Hainan Hibs
31-05-2010, 06:04 PM
Driver is English. I want 11 Scotsmen in the team, I do not want a Scottish player who wants to pull on the dark blue lose out to a player who plays for Scotland as a 2nd choice to add a bit of value to his name.

Levein should aim his time and effort to see how Scotland can start producing more players deemed world class instead of trying to hand out the places to anyone who can't get a game for their home nation.

I'd rather get beat with 11 Scottish players than try to cheer on 11 foreigners wearing the dark blue because they are too crap for their home nation.

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 06:04 PM
I have! Its just that I don't agree with you! :wink:

Regardless of how much I loved various players from various countries at various WC, I only ever wanted to play for my own country. I didn't at any stage want to become eligible through the back door to play for the likes of Croatia for example nor did I seriously wish that the likes of Zico would be somehow shoe-horned into being eligible to play for Scotland.

I did love however whenever Scotland came up against these nations because it was MY country against theirs. If it isn't a team of Scots playing them then there is no way that you can say that IMO. It just becomes a nonsense.

There are LOTS of reasons that Scotland isn't producing the same quantity of quality young players as in previous generations; the game needs overhauled from the top down in my opinion. One central aspect that IMO has *not* been to the advantage of the development of young Scottish players has been the mass influx of foreign players en-mass [by which I mean journeyman foreign players, not the elite stars of the Premiership or even the better ones that still occasionally appear at the OF's gates] which only means less chances for Scottish players. I believe that cream still floats to the top but there are less chances to progress, less chances to develop, less incentive to even try. Hence more do end up leaving the game. We're reaping what we've sown ourselves to a degree and we're now talking about doing exactly the same with the national team [yes, I know we kinda have already for years but this is stretching the boundaries even further]

I just don't agree that's what we should be doing either at league or national level...

Right, I'll write a dissertation, you write one and we'll compare :greengrin

greenlex
31-05-2010, 07:05 PM
Milky how would you feel about England knicking all the best players they could under FIFA rules but outwith the agreement with the other home nations? As a player who wants success surely Englands your best hope If you had a choice in the matter.

jdships
31-05-2010, 07:59 PM
much ado about nothing.... very rarely puts together any sequence of games or performances.

Over-hyped, had he been born in Edinburgh he would be classed as 'injury prone'.

Agree with others he's not worthy for the hassle of all this courting Levein seems to be doing and if the rules are rewritten it will as usual back fire on us rather than favour us.

Once Andy Carrol has rejected Scotland, questions may be asked as to why Levein seems to be conducting such business in public.....who's next? Kovesavic(D. Utd) as he's lived here for 5 years and is apparently a nice huy.


Agree totally
Can only say he is not the sort of player who makes me really take notice when he is on the ball.
Average at best
:bye:

Hibs On Tour
31-05-2010, 10:47 PM
much ado about nothing.... very rarely puts together any sequence of games or performances.

Over-hyped, had he been born in Edinburgh he would be classed as 'injury prone'.

Agree with others he's not worthy for the hassle of all this courting Levein seems to be doing and if the rules are rewritten it will as usual back fire on us rather than favour us.

Once Andy Carrol has rejected Scotland, questions may be asked as to why Levein seems to be conducting such business in public.....who's next? Kovesavic(D. Utd) as he's lived here for 5 years and is apparently a nice huy.

Agreed. :agree:

For those of the opposing view, let's spin things a little shall we?

If this was Jim Jeffries trying to rewrite the rule book to get a mediocre, injury-prone player in around the existing legislation/rules/handshakes/whatever to the smelly side of the tracks, we'd be slating him to high heaven along with saying the player wisnae worth the bother in the first place!

Its different why?... :greengrin

Hibernian Verse
31-05-2010, 11:36 PM
Agreed. :agree:

For those of the opposing view, let's spin things a little shall we?

If this was Jim Jeffries trying to rewrite the rule book to get a mediocre, injury-prone player in around the existing legislation/rules/handshakes/whatever to the smelly side of the tracks, we'd be slating him to high heaven along with saying the player wisnae worth the bother in the first place!

Its different why?... :greengrin

Because this is a country and they are a club...

hfc rd
01-06-2010, 09:27 AM
Andy Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad. Someone that is very direct and imagine him on the left and Dorrans on the right. That would be exciting.

Craig_in_Prague
01-06-2010, 09:58 AM
Andy Driver would be a great addition to the Scotland squad. Someone that is very direct and imagine him on the left and Dorrans on the right. That would be exciting.

McFadden on the left would do me nicely, over an Englishman.

Jim44
01-06-2010, 10:56 AM
They're blaming us for the inaccuracy of this headline about Driver (http://sport.scotsman.com/football/-ExHearts-star-Driver-set.6331897.jp). Apparently the doings of a 'Hobo' sub editor. :rolleyes:

Hibs On Tour
01-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Because this is a country and they are a club...

Makes absolutely no difference at all. The principle is EXACTLY the same. Trying to bend the bloody rules for a mediocre, injury-prone player. Matters not whether this is for a club or country.

Notice you've not noted whether or not we would be slating Fat Jim in these circumstances... course we would! :wink:

hfc rd
01-06-2010, 12:47 PM
McFadden on the left would do me nicely, over an Englishman.


I would put McFadden just behind the main striker like a CF role, as he is better playing more central than on the wing.

Hibernian Verse
01-06-2010, 12:48 PM
Makes absolutely no difference at all. The principle is EXACTLY the same. Trying to bend the bloody rules for a mediocre, injury-prone player. Matters not whether this is for a club or country.

Notice you've not noted whether or not we would be slating Fat Jim in these circumstances... course we would! :wink:

The last 8, 10 posts between us haven't been about Driver. I'm on about international rules now regarding Eduardo etc

Woody1985
01-06-2010, 01:11 PM
But at the same time, Eduardo lived in Croatia for the required number of years (as did Driver here through schooling) so I see little difference. It wouldn't be difficult to introduce a home nations ruling that says scraps all that's gone before and seperates the four nations in footballing terms. That would be so much simpler and completely do away with this debate.

I don't agree with the last paragraph of your post. As a Scottish person, I want to see my country doing well. Why should we sit back and be content with being crap when we have opportunities to get better.

I'm not sure what you mean here. We currently have special privilege to act as 4 separate countries when in the eyes on the world we should be classed as one.

Because 'WE' wouldn't be getting better! We'd be bringing in players from different countries to make the team better but that wouldn't make us as a nation better. It would mean that our football team is artificially inflated until the next opportunity comes up to scrounge some other countries players.

Hibernian Verse
01-06-2010, 01:29 PM
I'm not sure what you mean here. We currently have special privilege to act as 4 separate countries when in the eyes on the world we should be classed as one.

Because 'WE' wouldn't be getting better! We'd be bringing in players from different countries to make the team better but that wouldn't make us as a nation better. It would mean that our football team is artificially inflated until the next opportunity comes up to scrounge some other countries players.

When a player, such as Novo, plays in Scotland for 5 years he gains British citizenship and could therefore technically play for all nations, however the ruling we have currently (Driver related) stops this. It would be easier if we scrapped the Driver rule and when a player gains British citizenship they can only do so by playing in a specific country for 5 years. E.g Scotland for 5 years rather than England for 4, then Northern Ireland for 1 therefore gaining citizenship.

That probably made no sense.

ronaldo7
01-06-2010, 01:32 PM
But at the same time, Eduardo lived in Croatia for the required number of years (as did Driver here through schooling) so I see little difference. It wouldn't be difficult to introduce a home nations ruling that says scraps all that's gone before and seperates the four nations in footballing terms. That would be so much simpler and completely do away with this debate.

I don't agree with the last paragraph of your post. As a Scottish person, I want to see my country doing well. Why should we sit back and be content with being crap when we have opportunities to get better.

That 's the problem half pint:greengrin

Driver never qualified through his schooling, he was a couple of months short:greengrin

He's an average English player, and Levein should let it go, and concentrate on the guys who qualify to play for our country WITHIN the rules.

Woody1985
01-06-2010, 02:31 PM
When a player, such as Novo, plays in Scotland for 5 years he gains British citizenship and could therefore technically play for all nations, however the ruling we have currently (Driver related) stops this. It would be easier if we scrapped the Driver rule and when a player gains British citizenship they can only do so by playing in a specific country for 5 years. E.g Scotland for 5 years rather than England for 4, then Northern Ireland for 1 therefore gaining citizenship.

That probably made no sense.

I understand what you mean.

I think that the current rule is fair, if you're young and been educated here and effectively learned your football here then that's as far as it should go. I think that Somalian boy will qualify and rightly so under these current rules but that's as far as I'd want to push it personally.

Woody1985
07-06-2010, 07:28 PM
So was he eventually allowed to represent, and I use that loosely, Scotland?

I believe that a decision was due today but it was more of a formality.

Part/Time Supporter
07-06-2010, 08:05 PM
If Driver moves south this summer (which is not inconceivable) and stays there for a couple of years (same again), he will have spent less than half his life in Scotland, won't be resident in the country and doesn't have any blood ties.

Why are the SFA bending backwards to get this guy picked for Scotland again?

:confused:

Purehibee_MYB
09-06-2010, 03:19 PM
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_6198544,00.html he's been cleared to play for scotland now